Life in OUR America, Volume 2, The Livyjr Files Options

[Livyjr]

And why do the words "YEAH, RIGHT" just leap right to my lips when I read these words above about George W. Bush promising a "full investigation" of this matter, which, to be really full, would have to implicate him as Commander-in-Chief?

IN FACT, the investigation is already over, if you listen to the spokesboy, Scottie "BOY" McClellan:

The White House rejected Sgrena's claim that American soldiers gave no warning before they opened fire and that soldiers may have targeted her car because the United States opposes Italy's policy of negotiating with kidnappers.

"It's absurd to make any such suggestion that our men and women in uniform would deliberately target innocent civilians," countered spokesman Scott McClellan.

"It is a dangerous road, and it is a combat zone that our coalition forces are in."

end quotes

WELL, FOLKS, THERE IT IS!

It's a dangerous road!

It's in fact a combat zone, although how it comes to be that is up for questioning, where Iraq is supposed to now be at peace, according to George W. Bush, which raises the question of how a particular road THEN BECOMES a combat zone, and that answer is that George W. Bush has it be so.

HE IS RESPONSIBLE, AS COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, FOR THIS DEATH, AND EVERY OTHER DEATH IN IRAQ!

YES!

But, oh no, we can't have that, an American president being seen as being accountable for his actions, SO ..

GET OUT THE BROOM AND SWEEP THIS UNDER THE RUG, where it has already gone, thanks to the spokesboy!

George W. Bush promising to investigate anything anymore is just plain laughable, unless of course, IT WOULD BE TO INVESTIGATE ME, OR US, AS LIKELY TAY-RISTS, and then give or sell that information to this Choicepoint, which could then, of course, sell that information to whomever, including the criminal elements that they deal with, so that the criminals can then steal OUR identities to make money off of, which is what America IS all about these days!

GOT TO KEEP THAT ECONOMY ROLLING RIGHT ALONG, DON'T YOU KNOW!

George W. Bush and his just don't have enough, and never actually will, if truth be told on that.

Every loose nickel or dime that they have not yet taken or stolen from us rankles them, and so .....

BUT .....

Back to this alleged "investigation" that George W. Bush has "promised"!

What a crock, is what I am going to say!

It will be like the investigation into the torture of Abu Ghraib, where of course, IN A HIGHLY BUREAUCRATIC MILITARY STRUCTURE, where orders come DOWN, and supervision is 24/7, ONLY A HAND-FULL of rogues, who, of course, right in plain sight of all these superior officers, WERE ABLE, according to George W. Bush, to hide their unlawful actions FROM ALL THE SUPERIOR OFFICERS RIGHT THERE WITH THEM, to be able to commit these atrocities that George W. Bush wants us to believe did not come directly from his desk in the form of an order to commit them.

BULL CRAP, GEORGE!

How big a fool do you need to be to be considered a "LOYAL AMERICAN" these days is my question that I would like George W. Bush to investigate: HOW BIG A BLIND FOOL MUST WE NOW BE TO BE CONSIDERED "GOOD" AMERICANS?

How much must we continue to stomach?

And that answer is simple: IF YOU KNOW WHAT IS GOOD FOR YOU, EVERYTHING!

VOICE OF GOVERNMENT SMOKESCREENPERSON (deflecting attention FROM George W. Bush TO Italians): Why them EYE-TALIANS, everybody knows that they're nothing but a pack of dagos, and wops, and guineas, and WHY, THEY ARE MAFIA, each and every one of them, and they don't look like us, and they are bad people, look at the MUS-AH-LEENEY fellow that George H. W. Bush, THE FATHER OF OUR GREAT GOD-FEARING PRESIDENT had to go and fight back there in WWII to make the world free from them EYE-TALIANS, AND SAFE FOR REAL GOD-FEARING FOLKS, and why, this guy that we righteously killed, well, he flat out deserved it, because HE CHOSE TO SPEED, he chose to act in a threatening manner to OUR GOOD LOYAL AMERICAN TROOPS who are over there in that heathen land of IRAQ, DOING THE WORK OF OUR GOD, and everyone knows them EYE-TALIANS, well, THEY'RE NOT LIKE US GOD-FEARING AMERICANS because they worship dead emporers as their gods, and of, course, there is the MAFIA FACTOR involved here, and WE HAVE GOOD INTELLIGENCE ..... yada, yada, yada, yada, yada!

OH, and the investigation is over!

YEAH, RIGHT!

Yeah, right, indeed!

As this following story demonstrates:

Europe - AP

"Italy PM Disputes U.S. Version of Shooting"

Thu Mar 10, 2:48 AM ET Europe - AP

By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer

ROME - Disputing Washington's version of events, Italy's premier said that an Italian intelligence agent who was shot to death by U.S. troops in Baghdad had informed the proper authorities that he was heading to the airport with a freed hostage.

Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi also told lawmakers that the car carrying agent Nicola Calipari and a just-liberated hostage was traveling slowly and stopped immediately when a light was flashed at a checkpoint, before U.S. troops fired on the car.

Though the U.S. and Italian versions of what happened Friday do not match up, "I'm sure that in a very short time every aspect of this will be clarified," Berlusconi said.

The idea that Calipari was killed by friendly fire is painful to accept, the premier said.

But he reassured lawmakers: "The United States has no intention of evading the truth."

Berlusconi is a staunch supporter of President Bush and the U.S.-led campaign and has been struggling to balance his decision to keep 3,000 troops in Iraq against heavy anti-war sentiment in Italy.

The premier said Calipari had notified an Italian liaison officer, waiting at the Baghdad airport along with an American officer, that he was on his way with the freed hostage, journalist Giuliana Sgrena.

However, the top U.S. general in Iraq has said he had no indication that Italian officials gave advance notice of the route the Italians' car was taking.

In a statement released after the shooting, the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division, which controls Baghdad, said the vehicle was speeding and refused to stop.

The statement also said a U.S. patrol tried to warn a driver with hand and arm signals, by flashing white lights and firing shots in front of the car.

Berlusconi's 20-minute address did not mention whether ransom was paid to win Sgrena's release.

Some Italian officials have suggested a ransom was paid, but there has been no official confirmation.

Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini denied Wednesday that ransoms were paid for any Italian hostages.

"There has been no payment," he said, speaking during a talk show on RAI1 state television.

Berlusconi once again urged Italians in Iraq to leave.

"When Italian citizens have been victims of kidnappings, the government has always acted by following two directives: It has always rejected political blackmail while at the same time activating all the political, diplomatic and intelligence channels to obtain the release of our nationals," Berlusconi said.

Calipari was shot and killed as he headed to Baghdad's airport after securing the release of Sgrena, who had been kidnapped on Feb. 4.

Sgrena and another intelligence officer in the vehicle were wounded.

"The case of friendly fire is certainly the most painful to bear."

"It feels like an injustice beyond any sentiment."

"It's something unreasonable," Berlusconi said.

Photos aired by RAI, state TV's main evening news program, showed the light gray Toyota Corolla that Calipari and Sgrena were riding in, which is still in Iraq in the hands of the U.S. military.

The body of the car appeared to have little or no damage on its left side and front, including the lights.

A few bullet holes are visible on the right side — near the wheel and the front door.

Inside, the seats appear to be covered in glass, although the photos of the interior are grainy.

A bullet hole also is evident in the back seat on the left side, where Sgrena reportedly was sitting.

U.S. officials have said American troops fired at the car's engine to stop it.

Berlusconi's address was well received and lawmakers followed it with a standing ovation in Calipari's honor.

The office of Italian President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi said Wednesday that Bush had sent him a letter renewing a promise for a swift and thorough investigation.

In it, Bush called the shooting a "terrible tragedy" and expressed his solidarity, Ciampi's office said.

The U.S.-led coalition in Iraq announced Tuesday it was ordering an investigation into the shooting, to be led by a U.S. brigadier general with Italian officials' participation.

Berlusconi said he expected the joint commission to release its findings in three to four weeks.

end quotes

I HAVE NO CONFIDENCE IN GEORGE W. BUSH!

RECALL GEORGE W. BUSH, FOR THE GOOD OF NOT ONLY OUR AMERICA, BUT OUR WORLD AS WELL!

PASS IT ON!

[Livyjr]

It sould be noted that 3 out of 4 Angelinos voted for someone OTHER than James Hahn.

There's a vote of no confidence for ya.

And here is a question for OUR rov ...., er, excuse me, again, OUR "man on the scene" in sunny, at least sometimes, LA, for we don't want jeffmoskin in any way, shape or manner associated with the name Karl Rove, the "SPEER", or "ARCHITECT" of the REPUBLICAN PARTY OF AMERICA AND ALL THE WORLD, AS WELL!

jeffmoskin, exactly what does happen now, out there in the "City of Angels", AFTER this May run-off?

Will there be yet another election, with a REPUBLICAN involved in it, or will the May election be the final one?

Un-confuse us, if you will, please!

[jeffmoskin]

George W. Bush did not serve his time HONORABLY!

In fact, he didn't serve his time, and in the end, received a very questionable "honorable discharge", which likely could have been a result of being "DADDY's BOY", because it wasn't for doing the job he had signed up for.

The source I found is:

http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003220.html

It is still active.

In essence GWB was sent to an ARF unit. I can't post the graphics (or rather I don't know how) so here's the text:

February 08, 2004
ARF!....No, this is not the sound that Barney makes when the White House staff is late with dinner. Rather, it's the beginning of yet another intriguing mystery regarding George Bush's service in the Air National Guard. Read on for more.

To begin, you need to recall the original mystery of the "torn document" that purports to show Bush's guard activity in 1972 and 1973 (details here and here if your memory is fuzzy). Question: is the document genuine? Or some kind of clever forgery?

Answer: it's real. Here's the untorn version, as delivered to Bob Fertik in response to a FOIA request in late 2000:

-------------xerox copy of ARF points earned--------------------

As it turns out, though, we have traded one mystery for another. It's now clear that the document is genuine, but what exactly does it tell us? In particular:


The first listed date is October 29, not November 29 as we had theorized before. But George Bush was still in Alabama in October. What exactly was he getting attendance credit for?


This is neither a Texas Air National Guard document nor an Alabama document. What is it?


The answer, as you can see from the top line, is that it is an ARF document, as is this record from 1973-74. So what is ARF? I asked Bob Rogers, a retired Air National Guard pilot who's been following this for some time, and what follows is his interpretation of what happened.

ARF is the reserves, and among other things it's where members of the guard are sent for disciplinary reasons. As we all know, Bush failed to show up for his annual physical in July 1972, he was suspended in August, and the suspension was recorded on September 29. He was apparently transferred to ARF at that time and began accumulating ARF points in October.

ARF is a "paper unit" based in Denver that requires no drills and no attendance. For active guard members it is disciplinary because ARF members can theoretically be called up for active duty in the regular military, although this obviously never happened to George Bush.

To make a long story short, Bush apparently blew off drills beginning in May 1972, failed to show up for his physical, and was then grounded and transferred to ARF as a disciplinary measure. He didn't return to his original Texas Guard unit and cram in 36 days of active duty in 1973 — as Time magazine and others continue to assert based on a mistaken interpretation of Bush's 1973-74 ARF record — but rather accumulated only ARF points during that period. In fact, it's unclear even what the points on the ARF record are for, but what is clear is that Bush's official records from Texas show no actual duty after May 1972, as his Form 712 Master Personnel Record from the Texas Air National Guard clearly indicates:

----------------XEROX OF AIR FOrCE RETIREMENT STATEMENT---------

Bush's record shows three years of intense service, followed by a fourth year in which his enthusiasm apparently waned, followed by no service at all in his fifth and sixth years. This is because ARF duty isn't counted as official duty by the Texas guard.

So Bush may indeed have "fulfilled his obligation," as he says, but only because he had essentially been relieved of any further obligation after his transfer to ARF. It's pretty clear that no one in the Texas Air National Guard had much interest in pursuing anything more serious in the way of disciplinary action.

Can we confirm all this? Only if Bush is genuinely willing to release his entire service record, including the disciplinary action that presumably led to his transfer to ARF.

How about it, Mr. Commander-in-Chief? Will you release your full and complete service record, as you promised today on Meet the Press? Or were you just bluffing?

POSTSCRIPT: As always, any corrections, updates, or amplifications are welcome, especially from those with National Guard experience.

UPDATE: I see that I accidentally set off a storm by writing that ARF stands for "Army Reserve Force." This is almost certainly supposed to be "Air Reserve Force" and I've changed the text to remove the army reference. The overall point is to propose the theory that after missing drills and blowing off his physical, Bush was warned that he could be transferred to the reserves for 24 months as a disciplinary measure, the transfer probably happened around October 1972 when he began accumulating ARF points, and ended in November 1974.

The untorn version of the "torn document" is obviously a different copy and was obtained from the ARPC archives in Denver. The original torn document was found in Texas. There's nothing necessarily unusual about this, aside from the fact that the torn document designates Bush's unit as L9CHPY and the Denver version designates it as L9CMPY. I don't know if there's any significance to this.

Posted by Kevin Drum at February 8, 2004 06:59 PM | TrackBack




end of paste




so make of it what you will. Rather got busted on a technicality. The docs he put on TV WERE false -- the type font was wrong. But the information was essentially correct.

Forrest Gump was one smart cookie.

[Livyjr]

The source I found is:

http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003220.html

It is still active.

In essence GWB was sent to an ARF unit.

I can't post the graphics (or rather I don't know how) so here's the text:

February 08, 2004

ARF!...

No, this is not the sound that Barney makes when the White House staff is late with dinner.

Rather, it's the beginning of yet another intriguing mystery regarding George Bush's service in the Air National Guard.

So make of it what you will.

Rather got busted on a technicality.

The docs he put on TV WERE false -- the type font was wrong.

But the information was essentially correct.

Forrest Gump was one smart cookie.

As a low-down-the-totem-pole grunt who voluntarily enlisted in the United States Army on the mistaken impression that OUR America was somehow threatened by a bunch of peasants in Viet Nam up-rising against a totally corrupt, American-puppet regime in Viet Nam, and as one who did serve his full time of commitment, with service in Viet Nam, and as one who did get an "HONORABLE DISCHARGE" for honorable service, I have my own thoughts on this whole matter of George W. Bush and his "SKATING", as "duty-slacking" was known back then, and maybe, just maybe, the very best thing for America's real fighting personnel in harm's way in Viet Nam back then WAS THAT GEORGE W. BUSH served his "time" NOT SERVING HIS TIME, AT ALL!

SLACKERS and SKATERS like George W. Bush serve no purpose in uniform other than to get other people killed!

And he is still doing it today!

[Abu Beacon]

SLACKERS and SKATERS like George W. Bush serve no purpose in uniform other than to get other people killed!

And he is still doing it today!

Isn't that the truth!

A.B.

[Livyjr]

 
Well Mr. Livyjr.

I have made the decision to play devil's advocate to this posting of yours above about "just quitting".

The reason for that is -- I disagree with much of what you have written.

I definitely do not want to over react to your words and thoughts, but I do not feel that these sentiments you are expressing are very Livyjr like.

Any time a person has an opportunity to cause others to think, to look below the surface, as you have been doing, it makes a difference to THEM.

Sorry, you can't disown Our America so easily.

Warts and all, it is OURS and you, through your writing about it, have kept it yours and made it more real to all who have read what you have to say.

LIVYJR: "Everything is get all you can, grab all you can, push as hard as you can, etc."

Not everything, not everybody.

Not you.

Not jeffmoskin.

Not me.

Not a lot of people.

Hopefully, not the ones that count to you.

LIVYJR: " ...and perhaps, jeffmoskin, what you have posted above here hits on that, to a degree, anyway, especially the part about NO OUTRAGE over the fact that we are not getting "news" here in OUR America, anymore, NOT FROM CORPORATE MEDIA, anyway; what we are getting instead is lies, half-truths, outright fabrications, and this Kapostacy/Channel 13 business above is a case in point."

Not true, Livyjr.

There is PLENTY of outrage over the shenanigans going on.

Perhaps not enough.

And that's the reason people like you are needed to keep the message out there that the way things are now, are WRONG and there is a better way.

You have been blessed with a huge talent in expressing yourself Livyjr.

Don't even think about not using that talent.

LIVYJR: "HE (or she) WHO CONTROLS COMMUNICATION, CONTROLS!

HE (or she) WHO CONTROLS COMMUNICATIONS ABSOLUTLY, CONTROLS ABSOLUTELY!"

You are absolutely right about control.

And control starts with each of us controlling what we think, what we say, what we do.

And in my way of thinking the worst thing to do in most cases is to do nothing.

Not in every case, but in most.

LIVYJR: "In fact, the thought of the "truth" anymore, here in this America of nothing but lies and deceits, is almost a complete and total joke, since nobody seems to want it at all."

Livyjr, what goes around, comes around.

I believe that to be true always.

Knowing that, makes it easier to be patient.

The time will come.

And we, you, can hasten the day by doing whatever we can do to make it happen sooner.

There are a whole lot of evil people in the world.

There are also a whole lot of "good" people in the world.

Who will outlast who?

These are my true feelings Livyjr.

NEVER, NEVER, give up.

NEVER!

A.B

Everyone understands that burning wood produces fire.

But when fire feeds on fire, that is a rare condition that yields the greatest illumination.

Two flames come together and yield light more magnificent than either could have given forth alone.

In the case of community activity, this means that when one cooperates with others, the accomplishments are greater than what the individuals can do on their own.

Such a situation REQUIRES a harmony that will generate ideas, inspiration, as well as momentum for growth and action.

IF the combinations occur properly, the results will be like fire upon fire and will illuminate the world.

- Deng, Ming-Dao

end quotes

And Mr. A.B., America is lucky to have older people like you as its citizens, too!

ESPECIALLY IN HERE!

The wisdom gained by your long years on this earth of OURS is sorely needed today, and too often, is locked away in nursing homes, and others places where the elderly are locked and hidden away, out of sight, out of mind, so that we younger ones can continue to pretend that youth is eternal, here in somebody's America where youth is supposed to be eternal!

[Livyjr]

from Michael's "Pinned" post:

If you can't or don't want to use paypal you can send a check or money order for $7.95 US payable to Common Ground Common Sense to the following address:

Common Ground Common Sense
330 9th St. E. #201E
St. Paul, MN 55101

THE MONEY ORDER IS IN THE MAIL!

Life in OUR America will go on, hopefully, at least, presuming the HARD BOYS don't get me and nail me to a tree for not acknowledging George W. Bush as the SUPERMAN set down to guard over us by GOD, him or herself!

And thanks again, jeffmoskin, for posting this information in here for us duller folks who are subject to "information overload" in here, and so, might not see the trees for the forest!

[Livyjr]

Yeah, right, indeed!

As this following story demonstrates:

Europe - AP

"Italy PM Disputes U.S. Version of Shooting"

Thu Mar 10, 2:48 AM ET  Europe - AP

By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer

ROME - Disputing Washington's version of events, Italy's premier said that an Italian intelligence agent who was shot to death by U.S. troops in Baghdad had informed the proper authorities that he was heading to the airport with a freed hostage.

Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi also told lawmakers that the car carrying agent Nicola Calipari and a just-liberated hostage was traveling slowly and stopped immediately when a light was flashed at a checkpoint, before U.S. troops fired on the car.

The premier said Calipari had notified an Italian liaison officer, waiting at the Baghdad airport along with an American officer, that he was on his way with the freed hostage, journalist Giuliana Sgrena.

However, the top U.S. general in Iraq has said he had no indication that Italian officials gave advance notice of the route the Italians' car was taking.

In a statement released after the shooting, the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division, which controls Baghdad, said the vehicle was speeding and refused to stop.

The statement also said a U.S. patrol tried to warn a driver with hand and arm signals, by flashing white lights and firing shots in front of the car.

Calipari was shot and killed as he headed to Baghdad's airport after securing the release of Sgrena, who had been kidnapped on Feb. 4.

Photos aired by RAI, state TV's main evening news program, showed the light gray Toyota Corolla that Calipari and Sgrena were riding in, which is still in Iraq in the hands of the U.S. military.

The body of the car appeared to have little or no damage on its left side and front, including the lights.

A few bullet holes are visible on the right side — near the wheel and the front door.

Inside, the seats appear to be covered in glass, although the photos of the interior are grainy.

A bullet hole also is evident in the back seat on the left side, where Sgrena reportedly was sitting.

U.S. officials have said American troops fired at the car's engine to stop it.

end quotes

I HAVE NO CONFIDENCE IN GEORGE W. BUSH!

RECALL GEORGE W. BUSH, FOR THE GOOD OF NOT ONLY OUR AMERICA, BUT OUR WORLD AS WELL!

PASS IT ON!

And speaking of having no confidence whatsoever in George W. Bush:

Top Stories - The Christian Science Monitor

"War mistake tests Italy's patience"

Thu Mar 10, 9:33 AM ET

Italy and the US have agreed to a joint investigation of the death of an Italian agent who rescued a hostage.

By Sophie Arie, Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

ROME - They've had the tears, the tributes, and the angry accusations.

Now, Italians want answers.

In an effort to solder their strained relations, the United States and Italy have agreed that they will join forces to investigate how an Italian intelligence agent was shot dead by American troops as he accompanied a rescued hostage, journalist Giulia Sgrena, to the Baghdad Airport last week.

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi hopes the joint effort will soothe his country's raw emotions.

"We can be satisfied," Mr. Berlusconi said, according to La Repubblica newspaper.

"Because in this way [President] Bush has assumed responsibility for his friendship with me."

"He has done everything possible."

But for now, Italy - a close American ally that sent some 3,000 troops to Iraq - remains on edge, its pride dented by the wartime mistake.

Many here fear that justice will never be served.

The recent history of how US friendly-fire cases were resolved doesn't raise their hopes.

Justice served?

The death of Italian intelligence agent Nicola Calipari has revived anger over the way America dealt with its own soldiers who killed Italians by mistake in a much more clear-cut case in 1998.

In that incident, 20 people plunged to their deaths in an Italian ski resort when a low-flying US aircraft, on a military exercise from a nearby base, sliced a cable car from its cable.

Each of the four men manning the plane was initially charged with negligent homicide and involuntary manslaughter, but only the two men actually flying the plane were court-martialed.

During the course of the trial, it was found that the plane was flying at speeds in excess of 500 miles per hour - faster than military regulations allow - when it hit the cable car wire.

In the end, with a decision that enraged the Italian government, all serious charges against Capt. Joseph Schweitzer, the jet's navigator, who charted the low-flying mission, were dropped.

He was not tried for involuntary manslaughter or negligent homicide and found guilty only of obstruction of justice after it was discovered he and the pilot had destroyed a videotape recorded from the plane on the day of the accident.

The pilot, Capt. Richard Ashby, served six months in prison.

In more recent cases, involving other countries, America's attempts to do justice and pay compensation have fallen short of their victims' expectations.

Two US fighter pilots who mistakenly dropped a bomb on Canadian troops exercising in Afghanistan in April 2002, initially faced up to 64 years in prison for manslaughter and aggravated assault.

But Col. Patrick M. Rosenow, who presided over a nine-day investigative hearing in January 2003, concluded that although there was sufficient evidence to court-martial each pilot, criminal charges against them should be dropped.

In the end, Maj. Harry Schmidt was found guilty of dereliction of duty and docked one month's salary, about $5,600.

In other cases, such as the May 1999 bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade by US-led NATO forces, the US government agreed to pay $28 million to cover some of the reconstruction costs of the destroyed Chinese embassy, but Washington refused to term the payment as "compensation."

Each family of the three Chinese journalists killed in Belgrade received $1.5 million as "humanitarian assistance," according to Chinese sources.

In many cases of US military errors, critics say there is rarely any recognition of a failure high in the American command chain.

Technical glitches are identified or individual, junior soldiers are punished, usually lightly.

"At best, they will tell us a soldier from Tennessee made a mistake," said Bobo Craxi, the son of Italy's former Socialist Prime Minister Bettino Craxi, dismissing the investigations.

"In a lot of cases, victims are not satisfied," says Daniel Goure, vice president of the Lexington Institute, in Arlington Va.

"The cases that give the most pain are the ones where the military justice system appears not to punish."

"In a sense, the military justice system is biased, but in the same way that a judicial system is."

"There is a long tradition of this in military justice around the world, not just [US] military justice."

"You do not want a military man hesitating to fire because he's worried about the legal ramifications," he adds.

Italy is not the only country feeling uneasy as the American military investigates its own mistakes.

US friendly fire claimed the death of one Bulgarian soldier last week in Iraq.

US officials have pledged to investigate both incidents.

In Italy, which has troops in Iraq despite the fact that at least 60 percent of the population opposed the war, the death of Calipari has snowballed into a diplomatic stand-off.

Mr. Berlusconi is not likely to withdraw Italian troops in retaliation, but he is under pressure to demand answers from his US allies.

Tension is high because Italian and US officials offer competing versions of the accident.

US officials say the Italian authorities themselves may have played a part in the incident by failing to inform the US command in Baghdad of their movements.

George Casey, US chief of command in Baghdad, said the Italian government had not given the US advance warning about the convoy carrying Ms. Sgrena, the kidnapped journalist who was injured in the shooting.

"I personally do not have any indication of that, even on a preliminary basis," he said Tuesday.

Italy initially complained that its agent had been shot despite having notified CIA officials at Baghdad Airport.

Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini confirmed the incident had been an accident, but said Calipari's car had not encountered a US checkpoint on the airport road, it had not been driving at high speed, and US forces had not issued warnings before opening fire.

The US ambassador to Rome has met three times with Italian government officials to lay out the US assessment of the incident.

Italian media have published photos of the car showing eight bullet holes in front and side windows.

Sgrena has told local media that despite her suspicions of a deliberate attack she did not mean to say that American troops tried to kill her.

The incident has exposed the divide between the Italians and the Americans over policy on hostage taking.

While the US firmly opposed all form of negotiation, the Italians have secured the release of three female hostages in recent months, reportedly paying ransoms up to $8 million dollars.

Berlusconi insisted before parliament on Wednesday that the decision for a joint investigation was "of the utmost importance."

"I am sure that in a very short time every aspect of this affair will be clarified," he said.

Italian legislation makes it impossible for Italy to try those alleged to be responsible for acts committed against Italians in foreign territory.

Only a US tribunal can give final judgment.

With its judicial hands tied, the best the Italian government can do, according to Italian Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini, is "demand that light be shed on points that are still unclear, identify those people responsible, if there are any, and ask that they be punished."

But many are skeptical that an Italian court would achieve a better result in such a highly politicized case.

Political pressure

"What people want is a major political admission of guilt," says Roberto Menotti, analyst at Rome's Aspen Institute.

"There is mounting pressure among US allies to find a way for independent tribunals to judge these cases."

But the US, he notes, opposes the International Criminal Court.

"The US is one of the few democratic countries in the world that does not accept the idea of supernational legal action," says Menotti.

"As long as America insists on judging itself, that is a problem for all of its allies."

end quotes

AS A LOYAL, PATRIOTIC, NATURAL-BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN, I HEREBY DISAVOW GEORGE W. BUSH AS MY LEADER, AS I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CONFIDENCE IN THE WORD OF GEORGE W. BUSH, OR THE INTEGRITY OF GEORGE W. BUSH, OR THE ALLEGED "CHRISTIAN NATURE" OF ANY ALLEGED ACTS OF TYRANNY AND OPPRESSION THAT GEORGE W. BUSH ALLEGEDLY COMMITS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD IN THE NAME OF AMERICA!

RESTORE HONESTY AND INTEGRITY TO GOVERNMENT, HERE IN OUR AMERICA!

RECALL GEORGE W. BUSH!

[Livyjr]

International News

Francesco Toiati / AP

The coffin of Italian security agent Nicola Calipari is carried Sunday inside the Vittoriano Tomb of the Unknown Soldier monument in Rome, where it will lie in state. Calipari died when U.S. troops opened fire on the car he was traveling in with the freed Italian hostage Giuliana Sgrena.

"Wounded Italian reporter recalls ordeal - Sgrena sharply disputes U.S. version of events"

The Associated Press
Updated: 11:52 a.m. ET March 6, 2005

ROME - The Italian journalist wounded by American troops in Iraq after her release by insurgents rejected the U.S. military’s account of the shooting and declined Sunday to rule out the possibility she was deliberately targeted.

The White House said it was a “horrific accident” and promised a full investigation.

Meanwhile, an autopsy performed on the agent who died trying to save Giuliana Sgrena reportedly showed he was struck in the temple by a single round and died instantly as the car carrying Sgrena sped to the Baghdad airport.

White House counselor Dan Bartlett said Sunday the shootings were a “horrific accident” and pointed out that President Bush had called Berlusconi to offer condolences and promise a full investigation.

“As you know, in a situation where there is a live combat zone, particularly this road to the airport, has been a notorious area for car bombs, that people are making split-second decisions, and it’s critically important that we get the facts before we make judgments,” Bartlett said on CNN’s “Late Edition.”

The U.S. military has said the car Sgrena was riding in was speeding, and Americans used hand and arm signals, flashing white lights and warning shots to get it to stop at the roadblock.

But in an interview with Italian La 7 TV, Sgrena said, “There was no bright light, no signal.”

She also said the car was traveling at “regular speed.”

Sgrena said the driver began shouting that they were Italian, then “Nicola Calipari dove on top of me to protect me and immediately, and I mean immediately, I felt his last breath as he died on me.”

Calipari’s body was returned to Italy late Saturday, and Berlusconi and President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi joined Calipari’s wife, mother and two children at Rome’s Ciampino Airport to receive it.

An autopsy was performed Sunday, and ANSA quoted doctors as saying Calipari was struck in the temple by a single round and died instantly.

And while Bush Co. spokesboy Scottie "BOY" McClellan is making his "big noise" about how the Italians aren't telling the truth here, JUST WHAT ARE THE ITALIANS REALLY SAYING, in return, with regard to the spokesboy's claims:

[b][color=red]"Italy foreign minister disputes U.S. claim" 
 
By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press
Last updated: 7:47 a.m., Tuesday, March 8, 2005

ROME -- Italy's foreign minister said Tuesday that the car carrying an intelligence officer killed by U.S. fire in Iraq last week was not speeding up and did not receive signals to stop, countering suggestions by American authorities.

Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini, speaking to parliament, also ruled out suggestions that the shooting that killed Nicola Calipari was the result of an ambush, but reiterated the government's demands for a full explanation from Washington.

Fini was the first Italian official to openly dispute the U.S. account, and his comments put fresh pressure on Washington to get to the bottom of the matter.

President Bush has promised a full investigation.

Calipari, 50, was shot Friday as he headed to the Baghdad airport after securing the release of Giuliana Sgrena a month after the Italian journalist was abducted by Iraqi gunmen.

"The car was traveling at a velocity that couldn't have been more than 40 kilometers (25 miles) per hour," Fini said.

There were no attempts to stop the car, as indicated by the U.S. military, he added.

"This does not prevent, in fact it makes it a duty for the government to demand that light be shed on the murky issues, that responsibilities be pinpointed, and, where found, that the culprits be punished."

He said Calipari, an experienced officer who had negotiated the release of other hostages in Iraq in the past, "made all the necessary contacts with the U.S. authorities," both with those in charge of airport security and with the forces patrolling areas next to the airport.

The slaying of Calipari has fueled anti-American sentiment in a country where many protested the war in Iraq.

Yeah, right, indeed!

As this following story demonstrates:

Europe - AP

"Italy PM Disputes U.S. Version of Shooting"

Thu Mar 10, 2:48 AM ET  Europe - AP

By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer

ROME - Disputing Washington's version of events, Italy's premier said that an Italian intelligence agent who was shot to death by U.S. troops in Baghdad had informed the proper authorities that he was heading to the airport with a freed hostage.

Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi also told lawmakers that the car carrying agent Nicola Calipari and a just-liberated hostage was traveling slowly and stopped immediately when a light was flashed at a checkpoint, before U.S. troops fired on the car.

Though the U.S. and Italian versions of what happened Friday do not match up, "I'm sure that in a very short time every aspect of this will be clarified," Berlusconi said.

The idea that Calipari was killed by friendly fire is painful to accept, the premier said.

But he reassured lawmakers: "The United States has no intention of evading the truth."

The premier said Calipari had notified an Italian liaison officer, waiting at the Baghdad airport along with an American officer, that he was on his way with the freed hostage, journalist Giuliana Sgrena.

However, the top U.S. general in Iraq has said he had no indication that Italian officials gave advance notice of the route the Italians' car was taking.

In a statement released after the shooting, the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division, which controls Baghdad, said the vehicle was speeding and refused to stop.

The statement also said a U.S. patrol tried to warn a driver with hand and arm signals, by flashing white lights and firing shots in front of the car.

Calipari was shot and killed as he headed to Baghdad's airport after securing the release of Sgrena, who had been kidnapped on Feb. 4.

Photos aired by RAI, state TV's main evening news program, showed the light gray Toyota Corolla that Calipari and Sgrena were riding in, which is still in Iraq in the hands of the U.S. military.

The body of the car appeared to have little or no damage on its left side and front, including the lights.

A few bullet holes are visible on the right side — near the wheel and the front door.

Inside, the seats appear to be covered in glass, although the photos of the interior are grainy.

A bullet hole also is evident in the back seat on the left side, where Sgrena reportedly was sitting.

U.S. officials have said American troops fired at the car's engine to stop it.

And speaking of having no confidence whatsoever in George W. Bush:
 
Top Stories - The Christian Science Monitor

"War mistake tests Italy's patience"

Thu Mar 10, 9:33 AM ET 

Italy and the US have agreed to a joint investigation of the death of an Italian agent who rescued a hostage.

By Sophie Arie, Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

ROME - They've had the tears, the tributes, and the angry accusations.

Now, Italians want answers.

In an effort to solder their strained relations, the United States and Italy have agreed that they will join forces to investigate how an Italian intelligence agent was shot dead by American troops as he accompanied a rescued hostage, journalist Giulia Sgrena, to the Baghdad Airport last week.

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi hopes the joint effort will soothe his country's raw emotions.

But for now, Italy - a close American ally that sent some 3,000 troops to Iraq - remains on edge, its pride dented by the wartime mistake.

Many here fear that justice will never be served.

The recent history of how US friendly-fire cases were resolved doesn't raise their hopes.

Justice served?

In many cases of US military errors, critics say there is rarely any recognition of a failure high in the American command chain.

"In a lot of cases, victims are not satisfied," says Daniel Goure, vice president of the Lexington Institute, in Arlington Va.

"The cases that give the most pain are the ones where the military justice system appears not to punish."

"In a sense, the military justice system is biased, but in the same way that a judicial system is."

"There is a long tradition of this in military justice around the world, not just [US] military justice."

"You do not want a military man hesitating to fire because he's worried about the legal ramifications," he adds.

As a natural-born American who was brought up in what was a part of the cradle of this nation's founding as an independent sovereign nation on this earth of OURS, as one who has studied OUR history as a nation from the time of my youth, as one who volunteered to fight for America in the Viet Nam war, as one twice-wounded in combat in that war, as one who served honorably as an enlisted soldier in OUR American military, and as one who rose through the ranks based upon knowledge and proficieny and honorable service, it is very difficult for me to put into words exactly how sick and disgusted this business with this Italian case makes me feel, especially coming as it does on the heels of what has been one major cock-up and dog's dinner over there in Iraq right from the get-go!

WHAT IN THE HELL ARE WE DOING IN IRAQ, KILLING PEOPLE?

WHAT?

Because it makes George W. Bush "feel like a man"?

It gives him a sense of power?

It "turns him on"?

Gets him kind of breathing fast and makes him .......?

I wonder, when I read these stories, how many people fail to see what is right before their eyes here, and probably, just about everybody, is what I would say.

WHY?

Why do people fail to see?

Well, because while it might be apparent to me, unless you have "been in the game", as armed combat is called, or known by, then the obvious just might not be obvious, at all.

I am not at all proud of it, and rarely do I ever mention it, and I never brag on it, and I had hoped a long time ago to never have to think on it ever again, BUT .....

I rode in the "GOD SEAT" myself for a stretch of time as an aerial sniper in Viet Nam, flying at night over "kill zones" or "FREE-FIRE ZONES" in Viet Nam with a starlight scope-mounted M-14 rifle, and my job was to blow people clean away, FOR GOD AND COUNTRY, until the perverted nature of the whole thing made me so sick that I quit and walked away, never to use a projectile weapon in a hostile manner ever again.

And so, from that perspective, having been a "technician", or "mechanic", or just plain killer, however anyone wants to have it, because they are all the same, I look at this incident with this Italian man, and from what I read, this stinks!

To high heaven.

Now, was it just "sport-shooting", where you are simply bored and kill the next person in sight?

Or was it a planned execution?

Or could it really have been, as the Bush Co. would have us believe, an accident?

Well, let's take a look!

Let's do some "forensics" of OUR own, here, in the interests of justice and "solidarity" with OUR allies, the Italians, OR ARE THEY REALLY ONLY GEORGE W. BUSH'S ALLIES?

After all, we have all the evidence we really need to have here, right before OUR eyes, in these news clips above, which are neither "hallucinations" of mine, nor "inventions" of mine, nor "deluded thinking" on my part, or whatever other excuses or smears or slimes White House SMOKESCREENPERSONS Scotty "BOY" McClellan or this Dan Bartlett, whoever he really is, would heap on me for questioning exactly what we are doing over there in IRAQ?

For the opening of OUR AMERICAN CITIZEN'S INQUEST, which we can do, as American citizens, question the actions of OUR government, let us go to EXHIBIT No. 1, which is the top news story in this "Daisy Chain" of news stories above here, and look at this one sentence:

"Meanwhile, an autopsy performed on the agent who died trying to save Giuliana Sgrena reportedly showed he was struck in the temple by a single round and died instantly as the car carrying Sgrena sped to the Baghdad airport."

SO!

Hhhhhmmmm.

Any thoughts, anyone?

Any "shooters" or "hunters" out there, perhaps?

If so, what do any of you make of this, BECAUSE TO ME, a former sniper, this is pretty good shooting.

ONE SHOT, ONE KILL!

A motto, by the way, and if you don't believe me, find a Marine sniper and ask him, see what he will say, if you can find one who will talk, that is.

AND HERE, I DO NOT MEAN TO STATE OR IMPLY THAT A MARINE ACTUALLY DID THIS, NOT AT ALL!

In fact, by all accounts, it was a soldier from the Army, not a Marine from the Marines, who did the shooting, for Marines are not soldiers, and soldiers are not Marines, despite the fact that the news media is always "interchanging" the two terms, and if the twain meet out on a street somewhere, or in an airport rest room, odds are a fight will be the result, but not always.

And I digress again, which is an admitted bad habit of mine, but I am old, and boy, do we ever wander around in our minds, us doddering old fools who inhabit "Life in OUR America" as our "refuge" from the frantic pace of life, OUT THERE, especially on that airport road over there in Baghdad, Iraq.

Back to the INQUEST!

So!

Exhibit 1 is that the man died instantly from a single round catching him right square in the temple!

Does everybody know where their "temple" is?

Can everyone point to their temple for a moment, and while doing so, ponder just how big an area your "temple" really is, and then, HOLD THAT THOUGHT, for a moment, BECAUSE .....

NOW HOW ABOUT THAT FOR ONE REAL LUCKY "WILD SHOT", WILL YOU, RIGHT IN THE TEMPLE!

BAAANG!

And the Italian man is GONE!

One shot, one kill!

POOF!

NEXT TARGET!

Which brings us to EXHIBIT 2 from that March 10, 2005 article above entitled "Italy PM Disputes U.S. Version of Shooting":

"Photos aired by RAI, state TV's main evening news program, showed the light gray Toyota Corolla that Calipari and Sgrena were riding in, which is still in Iraq in the hands of the U.S. military."

"The body of the car appeared to have little or no damage on its left side and front, including the lights."

"A few bullet holes are visible on the right side — near the wheel and the front door."

"Inside, the seats appear to be covered in glass, although the photos of the interior are grainy."

"A bullet hole also is evident in the back seat on the left side, where Sgrena reportedly was sitting."

"U.S. officials have said American troops fired at the car's engine to stop it."

end quotes

SO!

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what we have here to consider, in light of the evidence before us in Exhibit 1, is this single statement, as follows:

"U.S. officials have said American troops fired at the car's engine to stop it."

SO!

Okay!

LET US NOT BE HASTY, HERE!

LET US NOT RUSH TO JUDGMENT!

Let us be calm and rational, and look at this statement on its face, for a moment, here.

IF we are to believe this U.S. OFFICIAL, THEN .....

OUR troops were firing at the engine of this car, and okay, let us buy that line of reasoning for a moment!

After all, we ARE all adults, here, I think anyway, and we are ALL PATRIOTS, and LOYAL AMERICANS ALL, so .......

WHERE EXACTLY IS THE ENGINE OF A LIGHT GREY TOYOTA COROLLA LOCATED?

AND ....

Is it bigger than a breadbox?

Can you fit it in the palm of your hand?

IS THE ENGINE OF A LIGHT GREY TOYOTA COROLLA SMALLER, OR BIGGER, THAN THE HUMAN TEMPLE?

Or do we need to call in some kind of team of experts here, including government scientists, and government engineers, and of course, government technicians and mechanics, BECAUSE, AFTER ALL, the light grey Toyota Corolla just might be a statistical anomoly, and it could have been one of those alleged "SUPER TOYOTAS" with the alleged new micro-miniaturized ATOMIC PROPULSION UNIT so small it cannot possibly be seen, WHICH WOULD EXPLAIN, THEN, HOW AN AMERICAN SOLDIER COULD HAVE PUT ONE ROUND RIGHT CLEAN THROUGH THIS GUY'S HEAD, BECAUSE .....

If the engine of the light grey Toyota Corolla was really that small, why, the confusion it would cause to someone trying to put a bullet into it, INSTEAD OF INTO THE TEMPLE OF A MAN'S HEAD!

Yeah, right!

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I think we have hit on the answer here, and so, let's just disband this INQUEST, and go with what the GOVERNMENT SMOKESCREENPERSONS are saying: THE ITALIAN GUY DID IT TO HIMSELF!

Yes, that has to be it!

LE VOILA!

He shot himself!

In the thick of things, why, he just got confused, and excited, and angry, of course, everybody knows just how voluable and excitable those Italians can be, and he pulled out an American rifle, oh, you know how sneaky they are, those Italians, everyone a Mafia, every single one, and with that American rifle, why the guy shot himself right in the temple, and then to make George W. Bush look bad, the woman was a COMMIE, after all, why, they threw the American rifle away before anyone could see it, and now, BECAUSE the Italian people do not like George W. Bush, they are jealous of him, and all that stuff, well, they are trying to make an international incident out of this, AND AS LOYAL AMERICANS, WE JUST CANNOT ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN!

Nuke Italy!

Nuke Italy!

NUKE THEM ALL AND LET GOD SORT THEM OUT!

Dismissed!

Thank you for your service to your country!

And now, just go home!

If you know what is good for you, just go home, lock the doors, pull the shades, ask no questions, do not think, do not think, do not think .............

[jeffmoskin]

THE MONEY ORDER IS IN THE MAIL!

Life in OUR America will go on, hopefully, at least, presuming the HARD BOYS don't get me and nail me to a tree for not acknowledging George W. Bush as the SUPERMAN set down to guard over us by GOD, him or herself!\

We will make sure to keep those HARD BOYS away from you. But just to be safe, stay away from trees.

I rode in the "GOD SEAT" myself for a stretch of time as an aerial sniper in Viet Nam, flying at night over "kill zones" or "FREE-FIRE ZONES" in Viet Nam with a starlight scope-mounted M-14 rifle, and my job was to blow people clean away, FOR GOD AND COUNTRY, until the perverted nature of the whole thing made me so sick that I quit and walked away, never to use a projectile weapon in a hostile manner ever again.

I think that was an incredible act of bravery, Livyjr. While I have never been faced with those kinds of decisions, I think that, at the age of....what? 21 or 22? you "figured it all out" and lay down your sword and shield.

Gonna study war no more.

Bravo!


Bravo!

This post has been edited by jeffmoskin: Mar 10 2005, 05:57 PM

[Livyjr]

We will make sure to keep those HARD BOYS away from you.

But just to be safe, stay away from trees.

Stay away from trees?

My God, man, I live in the woods!

OH NO!

Run, Livyjr, RUN!

Oh well!

[Livyjr]

And good morning, America, hope all is well with you today.

As for me, I just opened my e-mail, and there was something sent in to me concerning the American Flag, and in an "essay" contained therein, some pundit was going on about how he believes that anyone who wants to burn the American Flag CAN DO SO, but only with the permission of a veteran, and when I read that I wrote back as follows:

"I'm a war veteran, and anyone who wants to burn the American flag has my permission, BECAUSE nowhere in the First Amendment does it say that you have to get anyone's "permission" to exercise the rights enumerated in the First Amendment, which is what I was fighting for, and kindly tell this a*****e that for me, thank you!"

SO?

What is it with people in this country, that they get more rights than other people?

In a land of liberty and justice for all, how come some can have a lot less, or none, and others can have a whole lot, without any responsibilities attached thereto?

Why should I, a veteran of combat, GET TO SAY what someone else can or cannot do, or say?

How does, or how would my status as a veteran confer upon me what would in essence be a "SUPER RIGHT" over someone else, and how would that SUPER RIGHT given to me, by this essay writer, not serve to strip liberty from another?

And when that can happen, "mob-o-cracy", or "mob rule" to the passion of the moment, for all practical purposes, is it still a democracy?

Or is it an idle question, because God really gave us democracy, whether we deserved it or not, and that giving was so strong that it can never be shaken, or taken from us, even though we abuse democracy ourselves and totally ignore what it really is supposed to mean, as does this "essay writer" who is propounding this theory of veterans having a say over what can be the First Amendment rights of others in this nation who might choose to have a position contrary to that of the veteran, or mine, especially about the American Flag?

[Livyjr]

As a natural-born American who was brought up in what was a part of the cradle of this nation's founding as an independent sovereign nation on this earth of OURS, as one who has studied OUR history as a nation from the time of my youth, as one who volunteered to fight for America in the Viet Nam war, as one twice-wounded in combat in that war, as one who served honorably as an enlisted soldier in OUR American military, and as one who rose through the ranks based upon knowledge and proficieny and honorable service, it is very difficult for me to put into words exactly how sick and disgusted this business with this Italian case makes me feel, especially coming as it does on the heels of what has been one major cock-up and dog's dinner over there in Iraq right from the get-go!

WHAT IN THE HELL ARE WE DOING IN IRAQ, KILLING PEOPLE?

WHAT?

Because it makes George W. Bush "feel like a man"?

It gives him a sense of power?

It "turns him on"?

Gets him kind of breathing fast and makes him ****?

I wonder, when I read these stories, how many people fail to see what is right before their eyes here, and probably, just about everybody, is what I would say.

WHY?

Why do people fail to see?

Now, was it just "sport-shooting", where you are simply bored and kill the next person in sight?

Or was it a planned execution?

Or could it really have been, as the Bush Co. would have us believe, an accident?

Well, let's take a look!

For the opening of OUR AMERICAN CITIZEN'S INQUEST, which we can do, as American citizens, question the actions of OUR government, let us go to EXHIBIT No. 1, which is the top news story in this "Daisy Chain" of news stories above here, and look at this one sentence:

"Meanwhile, an autopsy performed on the agent who died trying to save Giuliana Sgrena reportedly showed he was struck in the temple by a single round and died instantly as the car carrying Sgrena sped to the Baghdad airport."

SO!

Hhhhhmmmm.

Any thoughts, anyone?

Any "shooters" or "hunters" out there, perhaps?

If so, what do any of you make of this, BECAUSE TO ME, a former sniper, this is pretty good shooting.

ONE SHOT, ONE KILL!

Last night, after I checked out of here in virtual reality, and went back out into real reality, up here in the corrupt Empire State of New York, where it has been quite cold, incidentally, or relatively cold, anyway, since zero fahrenheit won't really freeze your gizzards to a solid block of ice in an instant, as is rumored, ALLEGEDLY, in some of the warmer states of the Union, I sat for a while with a younger American, and we discussed this Calipari case, where the Italian man, a "negotiator" was shot in the temple on the road coming out of the Baghdad Airport, which under this Bush Co. administration, is one of the most dangerous roads in the world, thanks to him and his ineptness and his inability to make anything at all safe for anyone, EXCEPT HIS FAT-CAT FRIENDS, who he has made SAFE FROM THE OPERATION OF LAW, on them!

This young person works hard and so, in his own words, does not have time for the news, which I certainly can understand, and so, he had not heard of this Calipari case above.

When I asked him if he knew of it, or had heard of it, his interest became piqued, and so, I basically read off for him from my mind what I had posted above, which is a summary of the news items on that shooting.

When I got done recounting the "evidence", his thought, like mine, was that was this some damn fine shooting, a "SIGNATURE SHOT", and here, it must be said, that this young man, a "country boy", is one damn fine shot himself, and if you have doubts about that, have the Quinnipeac pollsters do a poll among the white tail deer population in this are ....

But again, I digress.

I told him about asking people to point to their own temples, and I asked him, how big a target is the human temple, and his answer came back right away, "ABOUT AS BIG AS THE TIP OF YOUR FINGER!"

Which is exactly true!

SO!

Here is the scenario as the Bush Co. SMOKESCREENPERSON'S would have it:

a) the car is speeding;

b) our troops panic;

c) they try to shoot out the engine of the car, completely missing, of course any area of the car where the engine is located; and

d) tragically, the Italian "negotiator" is shot right in the temple, which removes any doubts whatsoever as to whether or not he will survive that shot, and so, will ever again get to negotiate with a "TAY-RIST" on George W. Bush's list of people that he does not like, and so, would have tortured, and then killed, SO THAT ALL THE CANDID WORLD WILL KNOW JUST HOW EXTREMELY AWESOME THIS BUSH CO. REALLY IS, AND HOW MUCH GOD LOVES HIM, FOR THAT!

AN ACCIDENT, says Bush Co.!

OH, how tragic.

As for me, I think that is B** S***!

Somebody "popped" that Italian, and left their "AUTOGRAPH" on that guy's head, in a very public way, for all the candid world to see!

No more negotiating with the enemies of George W. Bush by that Italian boy, at least with that head!

There's the message to me, anyway.

If that guy was negotiating with "TAY-RISTS" to get hostages released, THEN HE WAS THE ENEMY of George W. Bush, and to me, George W. Bush has made it clear many, many times what happens to those who are not with him - they are the enemy, and George W. Bush stomps his enemies, so long as he has enough of his friends around to hold down the victim, for George to do his work.

And consider this, IF THIS WAS AN ACCIDENT, IF THE TROOPS WERE REALLY FIRING AT THE ENGINE OF THE CAR, THIS IS SOME OF THE MOST EXECRABLE MILITARY MARKSMANSHIP THAT I HAVE EVER HEARD OF, which, of course, might not surprise me, since everything this Bush Co. touches seems to have an air of incompetence attached to it, and so, if he has turned OUR military into a gang of thugs who cannot hit the broad side of a barn, or the engine of a car, well, HOW TYPICAL, folks, how typical!

SO!

Two choices!

If our troops are not incompetent marksmen, then this was a planned execution or a sport shooting.

If our troops ARE INCOMPETENT MARKSMEN, then they are made in the mold of THEIR Commander-in-Chief, in which case it is no wonder that after all this time, we are still mired down over there in Iraq!

IS THERE A THIRD OPTION?

HAVE I FAILED TO SEE SOMETHING HERE?

Questions for OUR times!

Live!

Details as they happen!

Life, in OUR America!

[jeffmoskin]

Here is the scenario as the Bush Co. SMOKESCREENPERSON'S would have it:

a) the car is speeding;

b) our troops panic;

c) they try to shoot out the engine of the car, completely missing, of course any area of the car where the engine is located; and

d) tragically, the Italian "negotiator" is shot right in the temple, which removes any doubts whatsoever as to whether or not he will survive that shot, and so, will ever again get to negotiate with a "TAY-RIST" on George W. Bush's list of people that he does not like, and so, would have tortured, and then killed, SO THAT ALL THE CANDID WORLD WILL KNOW JUST HOW EXTREMELY AWESOME THIS BUSH CO. REALLY IS, AND HOW MUCH GOD LOVES HIM, FOR THAT!

AN ACCIDENT, says Bush Co.!

OH, how tragic.

As for me, I think that is B** S***!

Somebody "popped" that Italian, and left their "AUTOGRAPH" on that guy's head, in a very public way, for all the candid world to see!

No more negotiating with the enemies of George W. Bush by that Italian boy, at least with that head!

There's the message to me, anyway.

If that guy was negotiating with "TAY-RISTS" to get hostages released, THEN HE WAS THE ENEMY of George W. Bush, and to me, George W. Bush has made it clear many, many times what happens to those who are not with him - they are the enemy, and George W. Bush stomps his enemies, so long as he has enough of his friends around to hold down the victim, for George to do his work.

Well, I for one am not with him. I fear that in his small mind that means I'm with the Tay- rists.

I'll wear my hard hat when I go outside.

This post has been edited by jeffmoskin: Mar 11 2005, 08:48 AM

[Livyjr]

And here, I am at one of those "places", a kind of "virtual" crossroads, or intersection, where I wonder where to go next.

If, for example, I were to continue to talk about corruption up here in the corrupt Empire State of New York, I could probably bury everybody here in virtual reality with details of that, because in real life up here, we are buried by details of that each day, without having to do any digging at all, BUT ....

My purpose is not to be lurid, and so, I am not going to talk about corruption in the corrupt Empire State of New York, at least not right now, as it serves no purpose to merely point at it, right now, without having a "greater context" to attach it too, such as corruption, incompetence, and ineptness in OUR America, right from the TOP right on down to the local dog catcher, thanks to Bush Co. and his pack of REPUBLICANS, who up here in the corrupt Empire State of New York can be told out from the general populace since they started getting all those extra arms surgically grafted on to their bloated and distended bodies, kind of like that one guy in the "STAR WARS" movie, JABBA the HUT, maybe; so that they can rake in the graft all that much faster, and since they have started getting all the extra "SNOUTS" surgically grafted onto their heads so that they can empty the "TROUGH" of swill all that much faster, and efficiently!

NO, my path really is kind of divided between talking about the subject of "law and order" today, or the lack of it in OUR America, thanks to this Bush Co. being soft on crime, especially corporate crime, or OUR own history, vis-a-vis "STANDING ARMIES" among civilian populations, and what used to be OUR national revulsion at that concept!

And really, what I am talking about is CITIZENSHIP and PATRIOTISM, AMERICAN-style!

IS GEORGE W. BUSH, BY HIS ACTIONS, BOTH UN-AMERICAN, AND UN-PATRIOTIC?

And is it un-American to ponder that question?

And here, my answer is NO!

In fact, it is un-American TO NOT PONDER THAT QUESTION, when the "evidence" of OUR senses tells us something just is not right here, with what this man is doing, not only here in OUR America, but in the world, as well.

IF YOU HAVE THIS STINK OF EXCREMENT CONTINUALLY IN YOUR NOSTRILS, MIGHT IT NOT BE A BED OF ROSES THAT YOU ARE STANDING NEAR?

Might it in fact be something else, like a running sewer, and if so, DOES BEING AN AMERICAN THEN ATTACH ANY RESPONSIBILITIES TO US, to act to remedy that condition?

Or should we all just scuttle away and hide?

Or simply quit in disgust, as I feel like doing, every now and then, to be truthful!

Should we be "GOOD AMERICANS" these days in the exact mold of the "GOOD GERMANS" in Germany in the 1930's and early 1940's, EIGHTY MILLION or so of whom did not question what their "government" was up to, and in fact, according to an old friend of mine who fought his way across Germany as a soldier in the famed 82nd Airborne, ALL had pictures of THEIR FEARLESS LEADER displayed in a very prominent place in their homes, just in case the local Gestapo or HITLER HARD BOYS paid a surprise visit, to see what their "thoughts" were that day?

SHOULD WE BE MINDLESS?

MUST WE BE MINDLESS?

It is safe, of course, to be so, and George W. Bush would like it to be so, and Karl Rove and the REPUBLICANS want it to be so, and their HARD BOYS will have it be so, AND SO .......

WE SHOULD BE, MINDLESS, THAT IS, IF WE KNOW WHAT IS GOOD FOR US .....

But then, what if some little nagging voice, at least in us older Americans, keeps saying "HEY, WAIT A DAMN MINUTE HERE, BEING MINDLESS IS ABOUT AS UN-AMERICAN AS YOU CAN GET!"

What then?

What do we do?

If being "mindless" in America today is safe, and if acting as if America were still a democratic Republic is very dangerous these days, then WHAT TO DO?

That's the "chat" in here, folks, and it is dangerous "chat", indeed, and make absolutely no mistake about that!

In terms of "FREE RESPONSIBLE SPEECH ON ISSUES OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE TO US IN AMERICA", these are the most dangerous times that I have experienced in nearly sixty years of existence, here in OUR America, and I wonder at that, I really do!

WHERE, OH WHERE, HAS AMERICA GONE TO HIDE, AND WHY?

The question of the hour!

Life, in OUR America!

What is it?

Who has it?

Who controls it?

And how, and why!

Stay tuned!

[Livyjr]

Well, I for one am not with him.

I fear that in his small mind that means I'm with the Tay-rists.

(Ed. note: also could be COMMIES, which is an acceptable interchangable pejorative with the term TAY-RIST in the Bush Co. lexicon)

I'll wear my hard hat when I go outside.

ME, TOO, jeffmoskin!

And make sure to keep your temples covered, both of them, AT ALL TIMES!

Don't want a HARD BOY's "autograph" on your head, now do you?

ONE SHOT, ONE KILL!

And another "ENEMY" of George W. Bush BITES THE DUST, and you know what, the whole country of Italy is powerless to do a thing about it.

NOW, what are there, only several BILLIONS in the world left to be "PUT DOWN HARD", to make the world safe for George W. Bush and his REPUBLICAN ilk?

Starting with us?

[Abu Beacon]

And consider this, IF THIS WAS AN ACCIDENT, IF THE TROOPS WERE REALLY FIRING AT THE ENGINE OF THE CAR, THIS IS SOME OF THE MOST EXECRABLE MILITARY MARKSMANSHIP THAT I HAVE EVER HEARD OF, which, of course, might not surprise me, since everything this Bush Co. touches seems to have an air of incompetence attached to it, and so, if he has turned OUR military into a gang of thugs who cannot hit the broad side of a barn, or the engine of a car, well, HOW TYPICAL, folks, how typical!

SO!

Two choices!

If our troops are not incompetent marksmen, then this was a planned execution or a sport shooting.

If our troops ARE INCOMPETENT MARKSMEN, then they are made in the mold of THEIR Commander-in-Chief, in which case it is no wonder that after all this time, we are still mired down over there in Iraq!

IS THERE A THIRD OPTION?

HAVE I FAILED TO SEE SOMETHING HERE?


Life, in OUR America!

I don't think there's much you fail to see, Livyjr.

You see it ALL.

That may not be a good thing because you and I and most of America are powerless to do much of anything about correcting the slow but sure bringing down of all we have ever thought of the goodness of America.

But if all we can do is to write about it and tell others what we see, that is what we should do, and you are doing it, and doing it very well.

Somehow, I believe the situation has become what it is because those in power were able to effectively do the one thing that they had to do.

And that one thing is -----

They accomplished the " dumbing down " of the citizenry.

Through sweet sounding words, lofty promises, associating patriotism with non dissent, continuing to hammer the message " We are making progress ", " we're doing this there so we don't have to do it here ", and so on, and so on, ad nauseum.

People's minds have begun to believe " That must be right "

How could a man who tells us he reads his Bible every day, not be telling us the truth?

" Democracy is taking hold in the Middle East. "

In a pig's ear, it is.

It wouldn't take much to push Lebanon into another civil war.

The same could happen in Iraq.

In regards to the two assassinations which have happened recently, I use the word assassination because that's what they were, I keep going back to just one premise.

Who would gain?

In the case of Prime Minister Hairiri of Lebanon -- who gained by his death?

Was it Syria? They surely knew it would cause an uprising in Lebanon.

The other entities are involved are :

The Lebanese Government.

Israel.

The U.S.

Frankly, I have no idea who was behind this.

I also wonder how thorough of an investigation we are going to get.

The other assassination, the Italian Journalist.

Who would gain by her death.

The terrorists?

Not likely, they had just released her.

The interim Iraqi Gov't?

The Americans?

I copy the same sentence I used above.

I also wonder how thorough of an investigation we are going to get.

These are very tough times , Livyjr, for all of us who care about our country.

I know for sure the same two things I stated before.

1. What goes around comes around.

2. Never give up.

A.B.

[Livyjr]

This young person works hard and so, in his own words, does not have time for the news, which I certainly can understand, and so, he had not heard of this Calipari case above.

When I asked him if he knew of it, or had heard of it, his interest became piqued, and so, I basically read off for him from my mind what I had posted above, which is a summary of the news items on that shooting.

When I got done recounting the "evidence", his thought, like mine, was that was this some damn fine shooting, a "SIGNATURE SHOT".

I told him about asking people to point to their own temples, and I asked him, how big a target is the human temple, and his answer came back right away, "ABOUT AS BIG AS THE TIP OF YOUR FINGER!"

Which is exactly true!

SO!

Tragically, the Italian "negotiator" is shot right in the temple, which removes any doubts whatsoever as to whether or not he will survive that shot, and so, will ever again get to negotiate with a "TAY-RIST" on George W. Bush's list of people that he does not like, and so, would have tortured, and then killed, SO THAT ALL THE CANDID WORLD WILL KNOW JUST HOW EXTREMELY AWESOME THIS BUSH CO. REALLY IS, AND HOW MUCH GOD LOVES HIM, FOR THAT!

AN ACCIDENT, says Bush Co.!

OH, how tragic.

As for me, I think that is B** S***!

Somebody "popped" that Italian, and left their "AUTOGRAPH" on that guy's head, in a very public way, for all the candid world to see!

No more negotiating with the enemies of George W. Bush by that Italian boy, at least with that head!

There's the message to me, anyway.

GESTAPO: Geheime Staats Polizei.

A secret-police organization operating ESPECIALLY AGAINST persons suspected of treason or sedition and often employing underhanded and terrorist methods.

SEDITION: Communication or agreement which has as its objective the stirring up of treason or certain lesser commotions, or the defamation of the government.

Sedition is advocating, or with knowledge of its contents, knowingly publishing, selling or distributing ANY document which advocates, or, with knowledge of its purpose, knowingly becoming a member of any organization which advocates the overthrow OR REFORMATION of the existing form of government of this state BY VIOLENCE or UNLAWFUL MEANS.

An insurrectionary movement tending towards treason, but wanting an overt act.

Attempts made by meetings or speeches, or by publication, to disturb the tranquillity of the STATE.

TREASON: A breach of allegiance to one's government, usually committed through levying war against such government, or by giving aid or comfort to the enemy.

The offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance; or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power.

Treason consists of two elements: adherence to the enemy, and rendering him aid and comfort.

A PERSON CAN BE CONVICTED OF TREASON ONLY ON THE TESTIMONY OF TWO WITNESSES, OR CONFESSION IN OPEN COURT!

Article III, section 3, UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION!

From Black's Law Dictionary

A question, then, IF George W. Bush is acting in a manner inimicable to the provisions of the United States Constitution, and thus allegedly could be considered a "DOMESTIC ENEMY" of the United States Constitution, IS IT TREASON TO AID AND ABET HIM, OR IN ANY WAY, GIVE HIM COMFORT IN THE ALLEGED DOING-SO?

[Livyjr]

GESTAPO: Geheime Staats Polizei.

A secret-police organization operating ESPECIALLY AGAINST persons suspected of treason or sedition and often employing underhanded and terrorist methods.

SEDITION: Communication or agreement which has as its objective the stirring up of treason or certain lesser commotions, or the defamation of the government.

Sedition is advocating, or with knowledge of its contents, knowingly publishing, selling or distributing ANY document which advocates, or, with knowledge of its purpose, knowingly becoming a member of any organization which advocates the overthrow OR REFORMATION of the existing form of government of this state BY VIOLENCE or UNLAWFUL MEANS.

An insurrectionary movement tending towards treason, but wanting an overt act.

Attempts made by meetings or speeches, or by publication, to disturb the tranquillity of the STATE.

Matthew Lyon

http://www.famousamericans.net/matthewlyon

LYON, Matthew, politician, born in County Wicklow, Ireland, in 1746; died in Spadra Bluff, Arkansas, 1 August, 1822.

He emigrated at the age of thirteen to New York, and, as he was unable to pay for his passage, the captain of the ship, in accordance with the custom of the time, assigned him for a sum of money to a farmer in Litchfield county, Connecticut, in whose service he remained for several years.

He then became a citizen of Vermont, and in July, 1776, was commissioned as lieutenant in a company of "Green Mountain Boys."

In the latter part of the same year he was cashiered for deserting a post on Onion river, but subsequently served as commissary-general, and eventually became colonel of militia.

He was made deputy secretary in 1778, and subsequently clerk of the court of confiscation.

After the war he settled in Vermont and was elected to the state legislature, where he served for four successive years.

He founded the town of Fair Haven, Vermont, in 1783, built saw-mills and grist-mills, established an iron-foundry, manufactured paper from bass-wood, and issued a Democratic newspaper entitled "The Scourge of Aristocracy, and Repository of Important Political Truth," of which the types and paper were manufactured by himself.

He represented Fair Haven in the legislature for ten years, and in 1786 was assistant judge of Rutland county court.

He married a daughter of Governor Thomas Chittenden, became an active political leader, and was elected to congress by the anti-Federal party, serving from 15 May, 1797, till 3 March, 1801.

In October, 1798, he was indicted in Vermont for writing for publication a letter calculated "to stir up sedition and to bring the president and the government of the United States into contempt."

He was convicted, confined for four months in the Vergennes jail, and fined $1,000, which was paid by his friends.

Mr. Lyon is said to have revenged his wrongs by giving the decisive vote for Jefferson.

While in prison he was re-elected to congress, and after the expiration of his term removed to Kentucky, where he established the first printing-office, transporting the type on horseback across the mountains.

He served two years in the Kentucky legislature, and was elected to congress from that state, serving from 17 October, 1803, till 3 March, 1811.

After his final retirement from congress the speaker of the house presented his petition to have the fine refunded to him that he had paid in Vermont, and on 4 July, 1840, an act was passed paying the sum to his heirs with interest.

He was employed to build a fleet of gun-boats for service in the war of 1812, but was made bankrupt by his attempt.

In 1820 he was appointed a United States factor among the Cherokee Indians in Arkansas, removed to that territory, and was elected its first delegate to congress, but did not live to take his seat.

A sketch of his life was published by Pliny H. White, of Vermont, in 1858.

Edited Appletons Encyclopedia, Copyright © 2001 VirtualologyTM

[Abu Beacon]

" Democracy is taking hold in the Middle East. "

In a pig's ear, it is.

Just thought of one more item which I read in the paper yesterday., and which I intended to put in my post above.

Another country getting very annoyed with our president telling them how to live.

Egypt.

Whether you like them or not, they have been supportive and helpful to us.

Now they are getting a little edgy with our constant " holier than thou "attitude.

A.B.