Life in OUR America, Volume 2, The Livyjr Files Options

[Livyjr]

And meanwhile, back on the home front, gross ineptness and incompetence in OUR government under the tutelage of Mr. George W. Bush and his pack of REPUBLICANS still seems to reign supreme, which is all the more reason for us old folks in here to continue to press for much needed reforms, here in OUR own government, as George W. Bush is encouraging all these other beleaguered peoples of the world to do:

Terrorism & Security

"Counterfeit badges pose ‘serious’ security risk - Fakes include FBI, Secret Service, DEA and Air Marshal badges"

By Brock N. Meeks
Chief Washington correspondent
MSNBC

Updated: 5:31 p.m. ET May 11, 2005

Tuesday’s success story about government agents seizing counterfeit badges has turned into Wednesday’s nightmare.

An unknown number of those badges are now in the hands of criminals, according to federal officials.

Earlier this week agents from the Immigration and Customs Enforcement division of Homeland Security seized more than 1,300 “high-quality counterfeit” badges from 35 different federal, state and local law enforcement agencies, according to a statement ICE released Wednesday.

Among the fakes nabbed by ICE are those resembling badges of the FBI, the Secret Service, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the New York Police Department and even the Federal Air Marshal Service, the agency assigned to protect commercial air travel.

And that’s the good news.

The bad news:

“This seizure has serious Homeland Security and public safety implications, given that these counterfeit badges may have been intended for use by criminals and others with no legal authority to carry law enforcement badges,” ICE said in a statement.

And ICE has no idea how many of those fake badges may already be in the hands of criminals.

“We’re examining that closely,” said Manny Van Pelt, an ICE spokesman.

“It is obviously a serious security issue.”

ICE is asking the public to be on the alert and to report anyone “displaying, using or distributing” phony badges.

But such warnings beg the question: how does one know when a badge or credential is bogus?

“Typically, you won’t see both [badge and printed credential] together” if the person is using a fake badge, Van Pelt, said, noting that an impostor will likely be using either the credentials or the badge.

And the badge number should match that printed on the credential, he said.

In the post-9/11 era, concerns about the use of counterfeit badges, uniforms and credentials have taken on a new urgency.

There is even a well-worn urban myth about the security risk posed by the theft of thousands of UPS driver uniforms.

And just last month New York City hospitals were warned by the Department of Homeland Security to be on the lookout for people posing as inspectors.

“These said individuals were attempting to gain public health service information from hospital personnel, and behaved in a manner inconsistent with legitimate inspection professionals,” the DHS bulletin said.

For the general public it is nearly impossible to tell a fake badge or credential from the real thing.

To make matters worse, many federal agents are still carrying what are technically obsolete credentials.

This is owing to the fact that so many of these federal law enforcement agencies merged into new entities when the Department of Homeland Security was created on March 1, 2003.

Indeed, even ICE’s own agents—most of which come from the old Customs and INS branches--haven’t received their new credentials, Van Pelt acknowledged.

“We’re literally going to turn a corner on this thing shortly,” Van Pelt said, indicating that the new credentials should be issued soon.

end quotes

My God, WHAT A PACK OF BUFFOONS!

And people in America think we are safe?

HAH!

[Livyjr]

My God, WHAT A PACK OF BUFFOONS!

And people in America think we are safe?

HAH!

Well, America!

Here we are once again, and so it goes!

Each day, of course, is its own day, and each day brings to each of us, here in OUR America, and the world, as well, what it will, sometimes because we wanted it that way, and sometimes, just because .......

And we will never know, in advance, because ......

SO?

What then do we do?

Some years ago, when I was younger, after Viet Nam, I spent some time in the mountains in Wyoming, a place that I dearly love, and while I will not tout myself as a "cowboy", in some senses of that word, for a while, I was, at least long enough to know that if you are up on the back of a bucking horse when he is bucking, essentially, you either stay in the saddle, or you get bucked off into the dust, or sagebrush, if you are unlucky, and that is that!

And so, that is pretty much how I go through life, taking what comes to me as what I must face that moment, and for me, that works!

My mind is not on where I was last year, although I retain that "awareness", and it is not on where I will be next month, or next year, it is on where the "saddle" is, and where my posterior is at any given time with respect to that "saddle", and so it goes.

And that "view" affects how I see not only life, but this "thing" called the United States Constitution, and this other thing of "CONSERVATISM" that is seemingly sweeping this country right now, like a tsunami, itself.

I suppose that in a lot of ways, I myself am a traditional American, which would cause me to be labeled a "conservative", but that is just a label!

If a "conservative" was a cowboy, and his horse started bucking, what would he do?

Determine that because the horse was not bucking five minutes ago, and that it is his horse, which should not be bucking, BECAUSE A CONSERVATIVE WOULD NEVER OWN A BUCKING HORSE IN THE FIRST PLACE, that the horse was not in fact bucking, when in fact, all the specatotors, can see that it is really bucking?

When I was in Viet Nam, I saw people die of what I will call "unbelief", or perhaps disbelief, that they just had been seriously wounded, and were on their way to dying, UNLESS RIGHT NOW, they came to grips with reality, and tried to change it, BY AN EXERCISE OF THEIR WILL ALONE!

My best friend died in Viet Nam, in that sort of fashion, actually, after having been very seriously wounded when an ambush was "sprung" on our infantry company right where he happened to be at that time.

He laid there, without an arm and a leg, with sucking chest wounds, for quite a while, actually, bleeding to death, and then, he was gone, and I wonder to this day if he was ever really able to comprehend that as nice a person as he was, and he was one of the most decent people that I have ever had the grace to meet on this earth of ours, that regardless, he had just been killed by the gross incompetence of OUR infantry company commander, who had fumbled the company right into one of the best ambushes that I have ever seen!

Me, on the other hand, being a sceptic, survived wounds from another ambush, BECAUSE I KNEW that I was very seriously hurt, and I DID NOT BELIEVE THAT ANYONE WAS GOING TO DO A THING ABOUT THAT, if I could not.

And so, my best friend is a name on a wall down there in Washington, D.C., and I am here, remembering him, because I am not a "believer" by nature, while he was!

Funny how it goes, actually!

I looked up to this friend of mine for his simple faith in life, and the goodness of people, and in the end, that faith in the common sense of this infantry captain got him blown to bits.

And this person maybe should have known better, but who can say?

As for me, when I feel that saddle suddenly accelerating upwards into my posterior regions, my thought is that I am now on a bucking horse, unless me and the horse are being "raptured" up together, which is a second possibility, I guess, and so, I act accordingly, which is to stay in the saddle, either way, until I know that once again, the horse's hooves are back down on the ground, or that we are securely in heaven, and so ....

To be continued!

Stay tuned.

[jeffmoskin]

When I was in Viet Nam, I saw people die of what I will call "unbelief", or perhaps disbelief, that they just had been seriously wounded, and were on their way to dying, UNLESS RIGHT NOW, they came to grips with reality, and tried to change it, BY AN EXERCISE OF THEIR WILL ALONE!

My best friend died in Viet Nam, in that sort of fashion, actually, after having been very seriously wounded when an ambush was "sprung" on our infantry company right where he happened to be at that time.

He laid there, without an arm and a leg, with sucking chest wounds, for quite a while, actually, bleeding to death, and then, he was gone, and I wonder to this day if he was ever really able to comprehend that as nice a person as he was, and he was one of the most decent people that I have ever had the grace to meet on this earth of ours, that regardless, he had just been killed by the gross incompetence of OUR infantry company commander, who had fumbled the company right into one of the best ambushes that I have ever seen!

Me, on the other hand, being a sceptic, survived wounds from another ambush, BECAUSE I KNEW that I was very seriously hurt, and I DID NOT BELIEVE THAT ANYONE WAS GOING TO DO A THING ABOUT THAT, if I could not.

And so, my best friend is a name on a wall down there in Washington, D.C., and I am here, remembering him, because I am not a "believer" by nature, while he was!

Funny how it goes, actually!

I looked up to this friend of mine for his simple faith in life, and the goodness of people, and in the end, that faith in the common sense of this infantry captain got him blown to bits.

And this person maybe should have known better, but who can say?

As for me, when I feel that saddle suddenly accelerating upwards into my posterior regions, my thought is that I am now on a bucking horse, unless me and the horse are being "raptured" up together, which is a second possibility, I guess, and so, I act accordingly, which is to stay in the saddle, either way, until I know that once again, the horse's hooves are back down on the ground, or that we are securely in heaven, and so ....

Another very moving tale, Livyjr.

I believe that it is a good thing to have faith. But that faith must not be misplaced. If you put your life in someone's hands, those hands had better be reliable.

OUR nation may have made the same mistake as your friend. We are being led through dangerous territory by one of the most incompetent bunch of weasels on the planet. And they don't care if we get ambushed - - they've got theirs, so the hell with us.

[Livyjr]

Another very moving tale, Livyjr.

I believe that it is a good thing to have faith.

But that faith must not be misplaced.

If you put your life in someone's hands, those hands had better be reliable.

OUR nation may have made the same mistake as your friend.

We are being led through dangerous territory by one of the most incompetent bunch of weasels on the planet.

And they don't care if we get ambushed - - they've got theirs, so the hell with us.

And here, jeffmoskin, is why I continue this thread, so that we can hear thoughts like yours expressed, and have therefore, an opportunity, to have to consider them, which I always find quite enlightening, to hear what others are thinking about these times that we all find ourselves in!

That is the truest purpose of this thread, to be a modern Livy tale, if you will, for posterity, whoever, and whereever and whenever that may be.

To the people of the future, this is what we, your forebears in liberty, were thinking on this very day, at this very minute, and this is why that was!

SO!

Make of this what you will, but make of it from as full a record as is possible.

As an American who is older than I, jeffmoskin has seen and experienced more life than I have, in certain ways, and so, I take the time to listen to his words, in order to discern his meaning.

And while our usage of "verbiage" may vary, weasels, for instance, which is a west coast term, I have to agree with jeffmoskin's sentiment, in my own east coast way!

I think America is poised at some brink that I cannot yet define with enough verbal accuracy as to make it readily comprehensible, but NEVER have I seen America in the hands of such grossly negligent incompetents, from the dog catcher right on up and through the Pentagon and right on into the White House itself!

It is as if OUR America had been taken over by locusts!

Where I am in OUR America, I literally feel like the Dutch boy walking by the leaking dike, and counting all the holes, versus his available fingers, and toes, and realizing that at a good steady walk, he might reach the high ground in time to barely escape the flood, and so .....

Up here, at least, these next few months are going to be quite telling, and that is something that just has to be talked about, a little each day, to really be understood, and in a lot of ways, it is going to be a eulogy for life in OUR America, as once it was, in the days of OUR youth!

SO!

Please!

Stay tuned for further developments, as they happen!

Live!

Late-breaking!

Life in OUR America.

[Morambar in TX]

"There are unfortunately incorrigibles still among us who want a return to the racism and right-wing extremism," Koehler said.

Hhhhmmmm.

Don't we have a bunch of those over here as well?

Isn't that what this "culture of guilt" thing is all about? Where have we heard that phrase before?

BTW, Livyjr, I'm borrowing one of your posts for a preliminary and admittedly speculative analysis of "How Operation Paperclip Destroyed America." If you have anything more on involvement of Dulles et al. with the Nazis, please feel free to PM me; as has been noted the actions of Prescott aren't quite as relevant since it was long before the Bushes got involved in government. Dulles(es) on, the other hand....

This post has been edited by Morambar in TX: May 12 2005, 09:46 PM

[Morambar in TX]

You know, Morambar, of course, that the job of American president is really whatever the incumbent makes of it, and Ike certainly was no exception, there, just as George W. Bush is no exception, right now today!

And that really brings us to one of the core issues in here, which is one of "WHAT IS AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT", anyway?

Myself, jeffmoskin, and Mr. A.B. all lived though a moment in time, however brief, when America had no president, and what ever really did happen as a result of that, that anyone knows about, anyway?

Certainly, I know my thoughts on that day, and likely, jeffmoskin and Mr. A.B. do as well, but I would doubt any of our thoughts were the same!

And how were OUR lives changed by the fact that for a moment in time, America had no president?

And here, of course, I am talking about the day Kennedy died!

What happened in those moments when America had no president?

Did time end?

Did the Martians invade and carry us all off without our being able to defend ourselves against them, because we had no president?

Or did nothing at all happen?

I was there, and I know what I saw!

And I didn't see anything change, or crumble, or doing anything at all, to be truthful, BECAUSE ......

While America might have a president, that president is never America, merely its executive officer, and that is something that I think we as a nation need to take stock of, once again, which is this question of why we bother to have a president!

We don't need one for anything, when it comes down to that, because when Kennedy died, we didn't have one, and nothing happened!

The bureaucracy exists to keep the engine moving and that is that!

And on the day Kennedy died, it did exactly that, without missing a beat, that I could discern, anyway!

No lights flickered!

The earth did not tremble!

Nothing!

In leafing back through, I stumbled on this again (I did read it at time of intial posting) and since it's foundational to what I'm now attempting, it naturally seemed to more urgently demand a response.

What happened? Or what can I PROVE? In my view, something VERY earthshaking, and possibly Americashattering happened that day: the folks REALLY running this country under Ike regained the control they'd lost just over three years previously by a little over a hundred thousand votes. In my view, neo-cons are nothing new; a small Cabal has been running the Greedy Old Party, and, through them, trying to run the country since '52. It's always been the same folks: Bushes, Kissinger, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and a certain other fellow. Has anyone else heard about a certain Mr. Cox who's formed an exploratory committee to investigate a Senate run against Hillary Clinton? Perhaps his more famous wife: Tricia Nixon?

I haven't been a true Democrat for some time; I'm merely in favor of ANYTHING that deposes this Cabal, which is trying to worm its way into the other major party as well. theroyprocess has some confirming data on how far back it goes. You can tell who's involved and who's just a pawn by who sticks around. The names have been retained to reveal the guilty.

[Morambar in TX]

Follow up: the MLK-->JFK/RFK cnnxn is MLKs role in bringing out the black vote in '60. MLK went to see the President in early '63 to point out the disproportionate number of African-American casualties, and explain that if the President wanted re-election support he would take steps to rectify this. The story goes that a memo hit the Presidents desk in the spring that he was never supposed to see, one detailing projected casualties through years end and the following year. So JFK made an executive decision to begin a gradual withdrawal. Then he went to Dallas....

[theglobalchinese]

Moscow accuses foreign spies of funding "revolution" in Belarus Xinhua

[Livyjr]

In leafing back through, I stumbled on this again (I did read it at time of intial posting) and since it's foundational to what I'm now attempting, it naturally seemed to more urgently demand a response. 

What happened? 

Or what can I PROVE? 

And welcome once again, Morambar!

And I am glad to see that you are still "in the fray", as it were here, and I am glad to also see you "stretching" your intellect a bit here, to consider what might be known in any given situation, versus what might ever be proved, and proving things is damn nigh impossible, all too many times, just because it is, and so, where does that really leave us?

A point that you, and all of us must always consider, Morambar, is that as long as there are three people, anywhere on the face of the earth, two of them will always be involved in a conspiracy against the third!

And so that goes!

BUT .....

What does that mean to the rest of us?

That, Morambar, was where I was trying to focus your attention, especially in here, which truly is international in scope, since I know there are viewers in here from other nations in Europe, who either are just curious about us Americans, or else are outright concerned as to who or what we may really be turning into, which is another attempt at the "THOUSAND YEAR REICH", and the "WUNDERKIND".

IF there are all these "conspiracies" out there, and I don't discount that there are, how does that really affect us, IF we cannot prove these conspiracies, or especially, if proving these conspiracies does not lend itself to doing a thing about them?

That is why I myself don't really spend much time on conspiracies, because like the black flies that are biting up here right now, these conspiracies are just another part of the tapestry, and I am not the weaver!

I am merely a spectator, and every now and then, why, yes, I do get bit!

Yesterday, in fact, I sat in on a conversation between a younger person and an older person on 9-11 and Illuminati conspiracies, and in large part, it was like watching an argument between a Russian shouting in Russian at a Greek who was in turn shouting Greek at the Russian, while being shouted at in Russian, by the Russian, who was being shouted at in Greek, and neither can understand the other, except for the shouting.

"Hey Sergei, what for you yell at the Greek, eh?"

"Because he was barking like a dog at me!"

And there it is.

Illuminati conspiracies!

They're going to take over the world in 2010!

Well, okay!

Then what are they going to do with it?

There is the problem with conspiracy theories, Morambar, which is why I don't spend a lot of time on them!

Now, that is not to discourage you in any way!

Rather, it is to get you to expand even more your thought processes here, and consider the minds of your intended audience, which is always virtual in here, anyway, and often times, does not give you any feedback that allows you to know if your message has "sunk in" or not.

I don't know about anyone else, of course, but as for me, I was alive when JFK got "popped", and I know my thoughts from that moment, and it was and remains my thought that somebody had just killed Kennedy because he got in somebody's way, and stepped on somebody's feet that did not like getting stepped on!

Simply that.

Do I believe that Lee Harvey Oswald killed him?

Not really!

Do I believe Lee Harvey Oswald did not kill him?

I have no proof of that, and so, I have no real belief one way or the other, but I have great doubts, since I was alive the day before, and the day before that, and all of that leads me to where my thoughts are on that matter today.

And then, I don't dwell on it, since Kennedy is dead, and time has gone by, and so .....

As to your theories, Morambar, as you are younger than I, and so, are part of a different generation that will have to brace itself for some 30 or more years of life, here in OUR America, I must encourage you to do two things, to wit:

* keep thinking, and digging; and

* be ever critical of your own self as you do so, as you are a spokesperson for your generation, and you want to be as effective in that role as you can be, for the good of posterity!

At the time of this nation's founding, there were first Whigs and Tories, and they did not see eye-to-eye on things, and then there were Federalists and anti-Federalists, and they did not see eye-to-eye, and now, there are CONSERVATIVES and regular Americans, and we do not see eye-to-eye, and so it will always be, Morambar, and this is what you must consider in your researches - CUI BONO?

And I think you are right about old "Cottie" Bush himself being nothing more than a bit player in this drama that was played out back then, and yes, dig into those Dulles boys, because your instincts seem to be leading you from chaff to wheat, and so, you must follow along some further, to see where the trail really does go.

As we old folks say in here, endeavor to persevere!

[Livyjr]

Ah, the young among us!

And boy, did I ever think that I would be saying that?

Each of us, of course, in here, really knows nothing at all about who the others in here really are, assuming that there even is anyone else in here, and so, we don't really know WHY people are listening to our words, since we cannot see those people to watch the expressions on their faces as we are talking, which is how I look at what I am doing in here, when I am writing these words!

It is a lot like talking to a wall!

I have had more than a few conversations with real people out there about coming "in here" to "talk" about life in OUR America, or whatever, and I find that people are very reticent about doing so, precisely because of the lack of feedback in here, which intimidates people in some seeming fundamental manner.

As for me, I actually "feel" quite comfortable in here, but that is me.

If somebody listens in, that is alright!

If nobody cares for a single thing that I have to say, that is equally alright, because both ways, I learn, and so, am a better person for having indulged in the exercise, but again, that is simply me.

I really do believe that this particular forum has revolutionized "life" for us TODAY, not only here in OUR America, but in the world as well, and so, I try to be somewhat circumspect in what I say, or maybe, more, how I say what I am going to say, because my purpose is not to shock people, but rather, to stir awareness, and in the course of doing that, to continue to learn more and more about this world that we all inhabit, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME, NOR DO I BELIEVE THAT WE EVER SHOULD BE!

In a healthy environment, diversity flourishes!

Without diversity, the environment becomes unhealthy!

Simple math, so why disturb the equation?

[Livyjr]

In a healthy environment, diversity flourishes!

Without diversity, the environment becomes unhealthy!

Simple math, so why disturb the equation?

"Violent Protests Break Out in Uzbekistan"

By BAGILA BUKHARBAYEVA, Associated Press Writer

10 minutes ago

ANDIJAN, Uzbekistan - Outrage over the terror trial of 23 Muslims exploded into broader unrest in eastern Uzbekistan on Friday when armed protesters stormed a jail to free defendants, clashing with police in violence that brought thousands of protesters into the streets.

At least nine people were killed and dozens wounded, witnesses and officials said.

One protester, who put the death toll as high as 20, said 30 soldiers were being held hostage because they were shooting at demonstrators.

Two of the dead were children, Sharif Shakirov, a brother of one of the defendants told The Associated Press.

President Islam Karimov and other top officials rushed to the eastern city of Andijan, where the government insisted it remained in control despite the chaos, though it blocked foreign news reports for its domestic audience.

Andijan is in the Fergana Valley, where Islamist sentiment is high, provoking tensions with the secular government that tolerates only officially approved Muslim observances.

The Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, linked to al-Qaida and the Taliban, fought for establishment of an Islamic state in the valley in the late 1990s and concerns are high that Fergana could be a flashpoint for destabilizing wide swathes of ex-Soviet Central Asia.

The unrest prompted neighboring Kyrgyzstan and Kazakstan, which also share the valley, to seal their borders.

"The people have risen," said Valijon Atakhonjonov, a brother of another one of the defendants.

Karimov's office said nine people were killed and 34 wounded in clashes between protesters and security forces.

Protesters stormed the prison overnight, apparently after attacking a military unit to get weapons, officials and witnesses said.

All 23 defendants — prominent businessmen accused of terror ties and Islamic extremism — were freed, said defendant Abduvosid Egomov, 33.

Egomov, pale and thin, was holed up in a local government compound that had been overrun by protesters, who were breaking up pavement stones to reinforce a metal fence surrounding the compound, to stave off security forces.

"We are not going to overthrow the government."

"We demand economic freedom," Egomov told The Associated Press.

"If the army is going to storm, if they're going to shoot, we are ready to die instead of living as we are living now."

"The Uzbek people have been reduced to living like dirt," Egomov said.

The trial, which has provoked some of the angriest demonstrations yet against the authoritarian government, is part of a broad government crackdown on religious dissent.

Thousands of Muslims have been jailed in Uzbekistan over the past few years in a government campaign that critics say has affected many innocent believers and only inflamed anger against Karimov's harsh rule.

Uzbeks in recent weeks have shown increasing willingness to challenge their leadership, apparently bolstered by the March uprising in Kyrgyzstan that drove out President Askar Akayev and by the so-called Orange and Rose Revolutions in Ukraine and Georgia.

Shakirov told the AP that the jailbreak was triggered by news that security services on Thursday had started rounding up people who had been involved in a sit-in outside the court where the trial was taking place.

On the square outside the local administration building, thousands of protesters were massed in front of a podium where protest organizers addressed the crowd.

Some had Kalashnikov automatic rifles strapped across their chests.

Shakirov said that protesters on Friday had repulsed several attempts by the army to storm the regional administration building they have held in Andijan since shortly after midnight.

Many of the men wore square black embroidered skullcaps, while some were in the white skullcaps favored by observant Muslim Uzbeks.

Young men handed out round flatbreads.

The protesters had posted their own guards on the edge of the square.

A nearby theater and cinema were burning, and a group of protesters examined the remains of burned-out car.

In the capital, Tashkent, on Friday a suspected suicide bomber was shot and killed outside the Israeli Embassy on Friday morning, according to the U.S. Embassy, but it was unclear if the incident had any link to the unrest in Andijan.

Uzbekistan, a key U.S. ally after the Sept. 11 attacks, hosts hundreds of U.S. troops.

The men, arrested in June, are accused of being members of the Akramia religious group and having contacts with the outlawed radical Islamic party Hizb-ut-Tahrir.

Authorities accuse Hizb-ut-Tahrir of inspiring terror attacks in Uzbekistan last year that killed more than 50.

The group, which claims to eschew violence, denied responsibility.

Akramia unites followers of jailed Uzbek Islamic dissident Akram Yuldashev, who was accused of calling for the overthrow of the predominantly Muslim country's secular government — an accusation he denies.

The group's members are considered the backbone of Andijan's small business community, giving employment to thousands of people in the impoverished and densely populated Fergana Valley.

end quotes

I wonder which side of this George W. Bush is going to come down on?

Probably the side with the boot!

[jeffmoskin]

Isn't that what this "culture of guilt" thing is all about?  Where have we heard that phrase before?

BTW, Livyjr, I'm borrowing one of your posts for a preliminary and admittedly speculative analysis of "How Operation Paperclip Destroyed America."  If you have anything more on involvement of Dulles et al. with the Nazis, please feel free to PM me; as has been noted the actions of Prescott aren't quite as relevant since it was long before the Bushes got involved in government.  Dulles(es) on, the other hand....

The definitive piece on this is "The Unauthorized Biography

http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm

You can read it on line... for free

In leafing back through, I stumbled on this again (I did read it at time of intial posting) and since it's foundational to what I'm now attempting, it naturally seemed to more urgently demand a response. 

What happened?  Or what can I PROVE?  In my view, something VERY earthshaking, and possibly Americashattering happened that day: the folks REALLY running this country under Ike regained the control they'd lost just over three years previously by a little over a hundred thousand votes.  In my view, neo-cons are nothing new; a small Cabal has been running the Greedy Old Party, and, through them, trying to run the country since '52.  It's always been the same folks: Bushes, Kissinger, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and a certain other fellow.  Has anyone else heard about a certain Mr. Cox who's formed an exploratory committee to investigate a Senate run against Hillary Clinton?  Perhaps his more famous wife:  Tricia Nixon? 

The "neo-cons" grabbed control of the GOP in the 1964 election. Now, granted, I've always felt that the mainstream "Mainstreet" repubs let them do it because, well, who in his right mind wanted to go up against LBJ?

Which brings us to people NOT in their right minds - - -the neo cons.

Read their statement of purpose in 1964:

get rid of social security.
Cut taxes on the rich
Eliminate taxes on Corporations.
Bomb Viet Nam back to the Stone Age.

Barry Goldwater (who was a pretty good Senator) lost every state but AZ.

The neo cons, beaten but not defeated, regrouped and, for 40 years have built up a powerful infrastructure of "think tanks" whose main job it has been to introduce "framing language" into mainstream Americanese that solidifies their points of view. Their "guest experts" are prominently featured on the Sunday Gasbag Shows: American Enterprise Inst., Cato Inst., Heritage Found., Family Research Council...

There must be 100 of these out there.

George Lakoff is the expert on this: "Try not to think of an elephant" is his book.

Look at the "frames" already in our everyday language:

Tax Relief (you become the tax oppressor when you argue)
Pro Life (is anyone against life?)
Activist Judges (unites anti abortion people with southern bigots)
Free Trade ( free for Busniess, costly for your employment)
Permission Slip (we'll declare WAR when we damn well feel like it)

the list goes on and on.

My point is, the neocons did not just appear like a plague of locusts. They have been doing their homework for 40 years.

And we have not.

[Livyjr]

The "neo-cons" grabbed control of the GOP in the 1964 election.

My point is, the neocons did not just appear like a plague of locusts.

They have been doing their homework for 40 years.

And we have not.

jeffmoskin, here, you are on your game, with this political analysis right above here!

But I wonder, if you yourself had not "been there", as it were, would this be apparent to you?

The times here in the late-1960's to mid-1970's, were very different compared to the times of today, and the politics of those times, especially in 1968, when there was what I thought was some serious blood shed in the streets of Chicago, those politics of those times were inextricably linked to the times themselves, which were like a swirling kaliedoscope of very rapid change, here in OUR America, in a very short amount of time, like 10 years, perhaps!

1967!

The Dow Riots out in Madison, Wisconsin, over the use of napalm in Viet Nam!

Serious bloodshed!

A unit of the famed United States First Infantry Division, "Big Red One", walks into a well set-up ambush up around the Tay Ninh/Dao Tiang area northwest of Saigon, and the son of a WWII "fighting general" is killed, as was fomer West Point football stand-out Donald "Holly" Holleder, who died that day running towards the fires his unit lay dying in.

More serious bloodshed!

And it shaped the politics of that day in ways that are difficult to describe, except to say that these events, and especially the loss of the "Black Lions" in Viet Nam, were like body blows coming in to our administration at that time, and it was simply reeling, like a punch-drunk, washed-up old pug!

Nobody in charge knew what to do, and everyone watching knew that, including Giap!

It was right out there in the open, for everyone to see, thanks to TV: America is ruled by madmen and incompetents who have got us marched into a jungle meatgrinder that we are not going to come out alive of, on the other side!

And they fumbled, and fumbled, and fumbled, and then lost!

And now, because of that, we have the politics of today, which are reactionary politics, knee-jerk politics!

The politics of the times!

The only way to change the politics, is to know the times that are causing the politics to be, and then, change the times, and the politics must follow!

jeffmoskin's LAW OF POLITICAL EVOLUTION!

Well done, jeffmoskin, well done, indeed!

[Livyjr]

"Violent Protests Break Out in Uzbekistan"

By BAGILA BUKHARBAYEVA, Associated Press Writer

ANDIJAN, Uzbekistan - Outrage over the terror trial of 23 Muslims exploded into broader unrest in eastern Uzbekistan on Friday when armed protesters stormed a jail to free defendants, clashing with police in violence that brought thousands of protesters into the streets.

At least nine people were killed and dozens wounded, witnesses and officials said.

Uzbeks in recent weeks have shown increasing willingness to challenge their leadership, apparently bolstered by the March uprising in Kyrgyzstan that drove out President Askar Akayev and by the so-called Orange and Rose Revolutions in Ukraine and Georgia.

end quotes

I wonder which side of this George W. Bush is going to come down on?

Probably the side with the boot!

And speaking of George W. Bush, and the "boot" coming down on these people over there in Uzbekistan who want their own "Orange" or "Rose" Revolution like the people George W. Bush is praising in Georgia had, we have as follows:

"Uzbek Protesters Killed As Soldiers Attack"

By BAGILA BUKHARBAYEVA, Associated Press Writer

5 minutes ago

ANDIJAN, Uzbekistan - Soldiers loyal to Uzbekistan's authoritarian leader, a U.S. ally, opened fire on thousands of demonstrators Friday to put down an uprising that began when armed men freed 2,000 inmates from prison, including suspects on trial for alleged Islamic extremism.

The death toll from a day of violence in the eastern Uzbek city was not known.

The government said nine died before the shootings in the square but gave no overall figure.

Witnesses said dozens may have been killed by the troops, who rode into the square in a truck behind an armored personnel carrier as helicopters hovered overhead.

As night fell, the gunfire died down, with most of Andijan's 350,000 people in their homes.

Authorities said security forces had regained control of the city administration building seized earlier in the day by armed protesters.

Hostages taken by the demonstrators as human shields at the building were released, a high-ranking Uzbek official said on condition he not be named.

The prison raid and the soldiers' fusillades were in sharp contrast to the largely peaceful uprisings that sparked regime changes in the former Soviet republics of Georgia, Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan in the past 18 months.

President Islam Karimov is regarded as one of the harshest leaders in the former Soviet Union and apparently favors quick and decisive action against any threats to his regime.

Uzbekistan is a key Washington ally in the war on terrorism and hosts a U.S. air base to support military operations in neighboring Afghanistan following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

But it also is frequently denounced by human rights groups and Western governments for torture and repression of opposition.

The White House urged restraint by the government and the demonstrators.

"The people of Uzbekistan want to see a more representative and democratic government."

"But that should come through peaceful means not through violence, and that's what our message is," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

"We have had concerns about human rights in Uzbekistan, but we are concerned about the outbreak of violence, particularly by some members of a terrorist organization that were freed from prison."

The focus of the jailbreak were 23 men on trial on charges of being members of a group allied with the outlawed radical Islamic party Hizb-ut-Tahrir, which seeks to create a worldwide Islamic state and has been forced underground throughout most of Central Asia and Russia.

Supporters of the 23 men maintain they were victims of religious repression by Karimov's secular government.

The 23 are members of Akramia — a group named for their founder, Akram Yuldashev, an Islamic dissident sentenced in 1999 to 17 years in prison for allegedly urging the overthrow of Karimov in a pamphlet.

He has proclaimed his innocence.

Akramis are considered the backbone of Andijan's small business community, running a medical clinic and pharmacy, as well as working as furniture craftsmen, and providing employment to thousands in the impoverished Fergana Valley, where Islamist sentiment runs high.

Their trial has inspired one of the largest public shows of anger at the government.

In recent weeks, Uzbeks have shown increasing willingness to challenge the leadership in protests, apparently bolstered by the March uprising in Kyrgyzstan that drove out President Askar Akayev and similar ones in Ukraine and Georgia.

Before dawn Friday, armed supporters of the defendants raided the jail in Andijan where the men were being held, freeing all 23 as well as about 2,000 other prisoners.

A rights activist, Saidjakhon Zainabiddinov, said late Friday that some of those freed were surrendering to avoid retaliation.

During the day, thousands of people swarmed into the streets of Uzbekistan's fourth-largest city, clashing with police and seizing the administration building.

Nine people were killed in those clashes and 34 wounded, the government said, although a protest leader, Kabuljon Parpiyev, told The Associated Press the death toll could be as high as 50.

Cars were set ablaze and a nearby theaters were burning.

Two bodies laid splayed near the square — one with a stomach wound, another burned.

Several military helicopters circled overhead.

"We want to be allowed to work and do our business without hindrance," the 42-year-old Parpiyev told AP.

One of the 23 defendants, Abduvosid Egomov, was holed up in the local government compound.

"We are not going to overthrow the government."

"We demand economic freedom," Egomov told AP.

"We are ready to die instead of living as we are living now."

"The Uzbek people have been reduced to living like dirt."

Parpiyev said Interior Minister Zakir Almatov called him Friday morning and heard the protesters' demands.

He initially agreed to negotiations but said later that the offer of talks was off, the protest organizer said.

"He said, 'We don't care if 200, 300 or 400 people die.'"

"'We have force and we will chuck you out of there anyway,'" Parpiyev quoted Almatov as saying.

In the afternoon, about 4,000 protesters massed in the central square and set up a podium under a monument to Babur, an Uzbek prince, where speakers complained of unemployment and living in poverty.

For some, it was the first time in their lives they were able to speak out in public.

Protest organizers, some with Kalashnikov automatic rifles slung across their chests, took turns addressing the crowd through a microphone.

"You have a chance now to say what you've wanted to speak openly about all these years," one thin, slight speaker wearing a white Muslim cap urged the crowd.

"Come on and talk."

But shortly before dusk, the soldiers moved in and opened fire, sending the terrified demonstrators fleeing.

One man wailed, "Oh, my son!"

"He's dead!"

A witness told The Associated Press he had seen a group of about 100 protesters mowed down by gunfire as they headed to the square.

The city's hospital was cordoned off and officials could not be reached for casualty figures.

Karimov and other officials flew to Andijan during the day but returned to the capital of Tashkent on Friday night.

The government blocked foreign news reports for its domestic audience.

Uzbek authorities blame the banned party Hizb-ut-Tahrir for inspiring deadly attacks and bombings last year that killed more than 50 people in Uzbekistan.

Hizb-ut-Tahrir says it disavows violence and has denied responsibility.

A statement from Hizb-ut-Tahrir's office in London said "the blame for today's unrest lies squarely with the desperate Karimov regime whose repression of Uzbekistan's Muslims knows no bounds or limits."

The Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, which is linked to al-Qaida and the Taliban, also fought for establishment of an Islamic state in the Fergana Valley since the 1990s.

Andijan is in the Fergana Valley, and there are concerns that the region could be a flashpoint for destabilizing wide swaths of ex-Soviet Central Asia.

Uzbekistan, a nation of 26 million people, is the world's third-largest exporter of cotton.

The largely arid nation, which depends heavily on irrigation, also has some gold and oil reserves.

end quotes

As White House "SPOKESBOY" Scottie McClellan says, this is just one more shining example of what he would have us believe is DEMOCRACY on the march across the world at the behest of President George W. Bush, who just happens to be Scottie "BOY" McClellan's favorite president of all time!

This soldier firing business is what REPUBLICANS call democracy!

What an interesting use of the term that is, is what I think!

How is it government by the people when the tyranical BUSH-ally over there in Uzbekistan has his soldiers mowing down people in the streets for wanting democracy, which is government by the people?

What is it that I am missing here?

[jeffmoskin]

My point is, the neocons did not just appear like a plague of locusts. They have been doing their homework for 40 years.

And we have not.

The times here in the late-1960's to mid-1970's, were very different compared to the times of today...

I think the BIG difference is that, since what seems like FOREVER, the democrats have controlled at least one house of congress (usually the house) and often both houses. So that while most of the presidents in the 20th century were actually repubs, they have been effectively held in check by democrats in congress. And the dems got lazy. That is why I say the neo cons have been hard at work those 40 years while we were sleeping. And now we are in trouble.

And the composition has all changed in Congress.

We are very divided as a country; the house and senate have a slim Repub majority, but with both sides holding to the party position, there is no room for deal making - - -only for rancor.

I fear for OUR America if we cannot take back the House in 06. I will work my *ss off to help bring this about. The Senate is too hard, but we CAN get the house.

[Livyjr]

And speaking of George W. Bush, and the "boot" coming down on these people over there in Uzbekistan who want their own "Orange" or "Rose" Revolution like the people George W. Bush is praising in Georgia had, we have as follows:

"Uzbek Protesters Killed As Soldiers Attack"

By BAGILA BUKHARBAYEVA, Associated Press Writer

ANDIJAN, Uzbekistan - Soldiers loyal to Uzbekistan's authoritarian leader, a U.S. ally, opened fire on thousands of demonstrators Friday to put down an uprising that began when armed men freed 2,000 inmates from prison, including suspects on trial for alleged Islamic extremism.

The death toll from a day of violence in the eastern Uzbek city was not known.

The government said nine died before the shootings in the square but gave no overall figure.

Witnesses said dozens may have been killed by the troops, who rode into the square in a truck behind an armored personnel carrier as helicopters hovered overhead.

The prison raid and the soldiers' fusillades were in sharp contrast to the largely peaceful uprisings that sparked regime changes in the former Soviet republics of Georgia, Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan in the past 18 months.

President Islam Karimov is regarded as one of the harshest leaders in the former Soviet Union and apparently favors quick and decisive action against any threats to his regime.

Uzbekistan is a key Washington ally in the war on terrorism and hosts a U.S. air base to support military operations in neighboring Afghanistan following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

But it also is frequently denounced by human rights groups and Western governments for torture and repression of opposition.

The White House urged restraint by the government and the demonstrators.

"The people of Uzbekistan want to see a more representative and democratic government."

"But that should come through peaceful means not through violence, and that's what our message is," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

end quotes

As White House "SPOKESBOY" Scottie McClellan says, this is just one more shining example of what he would have us believe is DEMOCRACY on the march across the world at the behest of President George W. Bush, who just happens to be Scottie "BOY" McClellan's favorite president of all time!

This soldier firing business is what REPUBLICANS call democracy!

What an interesting use of the term that is, is what I think!

How is it government by the people when the tyranical BUSH-ally over there in Uzbekistan has his soldiers mowing down people in the streets for wanting democracy, which is government by the people?

What is it that I am missing here?

And while this BUSH-ally thug over there in Uzbekistan is crushing with military might and unrestraint any thoughts of fledgling democracy taking hold over there in Uzbekistan, to be a thorn in the side of a thuggish, despotic tyrant of a BUSH-ally leader over there, what is happening to OUR own budding democracy, over here:

"Parties battle over judicial nominees with one eye toward elections"

By James Kuhnhenn, Knight Ridder Newspapers

1 hour, 20 minutes ago

WASHINGTON -The passionate intransigence of both major political parties in the Senate stalemate over a handful of judicial nominations is as much about the next election as it is about the next Supreme Court justice.

Both sides see election payoffs ahead.

Republicans are labeling Democrats as obstructionists.

Democrats are branding Republicans as arrogant power grabbers beholden to religious conservatives.

As the Senate heads into a historic showdown next week over the balance of power between its majority and minority parties, the national spotlight is focused on a little-understood parliamentary maneuver that last made headlines when Southerners used it to oppose civil rights legislation in the 1950s and '60s.

At issue is whether a minority of the 100 senators should be allowed to employ the Senate's tradition of unlimited debate - the filibuster - to prevent decisive votes on some of President Bush's judicial nominees.

Republicans say no, Democrats yes.

With Supreme Court vacancies perhaps on the near horizon, the stakes are huge.

The ideological bent of the court - and thus great questions of law and society - hangs in the balance.

If Republicans prevail, they'll have an easier time confirming judges who, for example, think abortion rights are too permissive and church-state separation too restrictive.

If Democrats succeed, they can force Bush to nominate more moderate judges.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., says Bush's judicial nominees deserve up-or-down votes, where a simple majority of the 100-member Senate could confirm or deny the appointments.

To ensure that, Frist threatens to change traditional Senate rules so that a 51-vote majority could end a filibuster against a judicial nominee, and pledged Friday to hold a vote on the matter next week.

It now takes 60 votes to shut down a filibuster.

The Senate has 55 Republicans, 44 Democrats and one independent who usually sides with Democrats.

"If Senators believe a nominee is qualified, they should have the opportunity to vote for her."

"If they believe she is unqualified, they should have the opportunity to vote against her," Frist said Friday.

"Members must decide if their legacy to the Senate is to eliminate the filibuster's barrier to the constitutional responsibility of all senators to advise and consent with fair, up or down votes."

Democrats argue that the seven judicial nominees they've blocked hold extreme views and the filibuster is the last defense against one-party rule.

They say they want to retain the traditional power that political minorities have in the Senate and to protect the independence of the judiciary.

Yet Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada offered a compromise - to allow votes on four of the seven nominees - if Frist would drop his plan to change the filibuster rule.

Frist rejected the offer Thursday.

Christian conservatives and other Republican allies are spending millions on ads calling for an end to judicial filibusters.

They argue that the conflict is about fairness to Bush's nominees, fairness to majority rule and, ultimately, fairness in the judicial system.

In a radio broadcast Monday on Christian radio stations, James Dobson, the head of Focus on the Family, a conservative advocacy group, said the filibuster was "a way of keeping conservatives and those who have strong religious views, and certainly pro-life, pro-marriage and pro-family views, from ever serving."

"That's what's at stake here."

Liberal groups and other Democratic allies have replied in kind.

On Thursday, the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee released an ad that links Frist's efforts to do away with the judicial filibuster to ethical questions swirling around House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas.

"Frist and DeLay - gutting ethics rules, threatening judges, changing the rules as they go along, abusing their power," the ad says.

"Frist and DeLay."

"Out of control."

Both parties claim to be bullish about their prospects.

With several Republican senators undecided or uncommitted, the outcome is in doubt.

It's no accident that the two nominees whom First has chosen to bring up for votes next week are women.

One, Janice Rogers Brown of the California Supreme Court, is an African-American with a compelling life story.

The other is Priscilla Owen of the Texas Supreme Court.

Republicans think Democrats will be put on the defensive by having to justify standing in the way of women gaining power, a trend that Democrats ordinarily champion.

The dispute over judges comes as Congress is entangled in other partisan squabbles over Social Security and ethics in the House of Representatives, and not long after it passed a bill intervening in the Terri Schiavo case.

A Gallup poll taken May 2-5 found that the public's approval rating for Congress is 35 percent, the lowest in eight years; 57 percent disapproved of the job Congress is doing.

Some party tacticians on each side see election advantages ahead from this showdown.

Sen. Charles Schumer of New York, the chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee:

"The only joy I take in this - and it's very little 'cause I think it's bad for the country - is the more this small group of extremists calls the shots, the better chance Democrats have of regaining the Senate in 2006."

Sen. George Allen of Virginia, who headed the Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee when the Republican Party gained Senate seats last year:

"No matter where you went, the best way to fire up folks to get out and vote for our candidates was to talk about this obstruction on judges."

"I think it's bad for the institution."

"That's what bothers me," said Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who's said he'd vote against restricting filibusters.

"I don't know how the American public will perceive this."

"We see mixed polls."

"One, they want every judge to have an up-or-down vote, yet they don't want to deprive the minority in the Senate the right to filibuster."

"I don't know how it plays."

end quotes

Well, I do, John, I don't want the filibuster to end, and I do not want CONSERVATIVE judges on the bench, here in OUR America!

I want law-biding judges here in OUR America, regardless of who it is that is standing before them, and these CONSERVATIVE judges, by broadcasting their CONSERVATISM, have in my mind disqualified themselves from serving on the federal bench, on the grounds that they are self-admittedly biased and therefore, prejudiced, against a majority here in OUR America, who is not CONSERVATIVE, like them, and their faction, who they are biased towards, to OUR detriment, as a nation, if these self-admitted biased and prejudiced persons under consideration by the Senate actually do succeed in gaining the federal bench.

NO BIASED AND PREJUDICED CONSERVATIVE JUDGES in OUR America, please!

Pass it along!

Thank you!

And to tell your Senator, click on this url, now:

http://www.congress.org

[Livyjr]

"Parties battle over judicial nominees with one eye toward elections"

By James Kuhnhenn, Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON -The passionate intransigence of both major political parties in the Senate stalemate over a handful of judicial nominations is as much about the next election as it is about the next Supreme Court justice.

Both sides see election payoffs ahead.

Republicans are labeling Democrats as obstructionists.

Democrats are branding Republicans as arrogant power grabbers beholden to religious conservatives.

Christian conservatives and other Republican allies are spending millions on ads calling for an end to judicial filibusters.

They argue that the conflict is about fairness to Bush's nominees, fairness to majority rule and, ultimately, fairness in the judicial system.

In a radio broadcast Monday on Christian radio stations, James Dobson, the head of Focus on the Family, a conservative advocacy group, said the filibuster was "a way of keeping conservatives and those who have strong religious views, and certainly pro-life, pro-marriage and pro-family views, from ever serving."

"That's what's at stake here."

end quotes

Well, I do, John, I don't want the filibuster to end, and I do not want CONSERVATIVE judges on the bench, here in OUR America!

I want law-biding judges here in OUR America, regardless of who it is that is standing before them, and these CONSERVATIVE judges, by broadcasting their CONSERVATISM, have in my mind disqualified themselves from serving on the federal bench, on the grounds that they are self-admittedly biased and therefore, prejudiced, against a majority here in OUR America, who is not CONSERVATIVE, like them, and their faction, who they are biased towards, to OUR detriment, as a nation, if these self-admitted biased and prejudiced persons under consideration by the Senate actually do succeed in gaining the federal bench.

NO BIASED AND PREJUDICED CONSERVATIVE JUDGES in OUR America, please!

Pass it along!

Thank you!

And to tell your Senator, click on this url, now:

http://www.congress.org

Since I wrote those words, I have been thinking quite a bit about what meaning I intended to convey by them, and why, and that comes from the perspective of this on-going attempt by people like this James Dobson above here, to "re-establish" the "church", here in OUR America, some 250 years, give or take, since it was "dis-established" by the original thirteen colonies, BY THE VEHICLE OF TAKING OVER OUR FEDERAL JUDICIARY WITH HIS PEOPLE, who will then change the course of OUR national history, and heritage of religious liberty, by re-writing American history as they issue their decisions, which is how the history of Constitutional law is written here in OUR America, by judges!

And this is a pretty slick gambit, when you think on it, since "dis-establishment" of the church happened under the "Articles of Confederation", when each state was sovereign unto itself, and so, could take action within its self as sovereign, to do that, which was to rid "society" of the control of a small group of priests!

At the time of dis-establishment, of course, the church could have the civil authorities try people for heresy, which severely restricted one's right to free expression, if your free expression was going to get you burned at the stake on the orders of some priest!

Thomas Jefferson himself was for dis-establishment of the church, which was a parsitic thing, living off of the people's taxes, but providing nothing to the people in return!

This does not make me, or Thomas Jefferson "non-religious"!

To the contrary, this makes me tolerant!

I do not ask that anyone should have to work as a slave to me, without their consent, to support my belief system.

That is what existed back in the 1700's, where people in the back-country of places like Virginia had their own belief systems, and churchs and ministrys, and yet still had to pay taxes to support another, that was not theirs.

By the vehicle of taking over the federal judiciary, this James Dobson is looking to "revise" American history, by having HIS FEDERAL JUDGES INTERPRET OUR CONSTITUTION IN SUCH A WAY AS TO "RE-ESTABLISH" RELIGION here in OUR America as an entity to be supported by public finances!

NO REVISING OF AMERICAN HISTORY to put the "CHURCH" back on the public payroll!

NO BIASED AND PREJUDICED CONSERVATIVE JUDGES in OUR America, please!

Pass it along!

Thank you!

And to tell your Senator, click on this url, now:

http://www.congress.org

[Livyjr]

Since I wrote those words, I have been thinking quite a bit about what meaning I intended to convey by them, and why, and that comes from the perspective of this on-going attempt by people like this James Dobson above here, to "re-establish" the "church", here in OUR America, some 250 years, give or take, since it was "dis-established" by the original thirteen colonies, BY THE VEHICLE OF TAKING OVER OUR FEDERAL JUDICIARY WITH HIS PEOPLE, who will then change the course of OUR national history, and heritage of religious liberty, by re-writing American history as they issue their decisions, which is how the history of Constitutional law is written here in OUR America, by judges!

And this is a pretty slick gambit, when you think on it .........

NO BIASED AND PREJUDICED CONSERVATIVE JUDGES in OUR America, please!

Pass it along!

Thank you!

And to tell your Senator, click on this url, now:

http://www.congress.org

But as for me, I am an American, and that means KNOWING where this nation came from, and knowing my place as a citizen within it, and then standing up, when necessary, to defend that birthright, in as intelligent manner as is possible, given the circumstances at any given time, to do what I can do, as an individual to keep this REPUBLIC alive, so that it does not simply degenerate into a THUG-O-CRACY, instead.

At the time of the 1787 Constitutional Convention, or shortly thereafter, actually, in the first Federalist essay, Alexander Hamilton of New York said as follows:

"It has been frequently remarked, that it seems to have been reserved TO THE PEOPLE of this country, BY THEIR CONDUCT AND EXAMPLE, to decide the important question, WHETHER SOCIETIES OF MEN ARE REALLY CAPABLE OR NOT, of establishing good government from reflection and choice, or whether they are forever destined to depend, for their political constitutions, ON ACCIDENT AND FORCE!"

SO?

What to do, eh, jeffmoskin?

The power of massed minds, Mr. A.B., and the power of the internet!

Le voila!

A transformation in "citizen politics", and literally overnight!

We now exist .......

What follows is a post I just made over in my JUDICIAL thread, where the discussion these days over there is on the differences in protections a human being who is an American citizen is afforded by the New York State Constitution and the United States Constitution, all at the same time, in the State of New York!

I was talking to a younger American about that today, this dual constitutional coverage here in the State of New York, which is perhaps somewhat unique, here in OUR America, BECAUSE at the time of INDEPENDENCE in 1776, New York State was in fact a sovereign nation, and its Constitution, adopted at the time of Independence directly reflected OUR experience as citizens with Englich tyranny of literally the day before, and so, ends up being a CONSTITUTION that is very protective of LIBERTY, because of that fact!

The more western states are in this nation from the east coast, the later in time their state constitutions derive from, AFTER the United States Constitution had been ratifed, and so was there to serve as an example to the residents of those territories at the time they were ready for statehood, and it is a much different example, indeed, just as the Articles of Confederation in the end were so much different than the United States Constitution, in ultimate purpose, and therefore utility!

I have never really realized before this time how much different in equality as American citizens this really does make us, and it does, in very fundamental ways, especially with respect to "dis-establishment" of religion, which would likely strike a Virginian a much different chord than it would someone in Utah, say, or Tenessee, or Texas, where Bill Frist and Tommy DeLay come from, respectively!

THEIR EFFORTS TO STICK RELIGIOUS CONSERVATIVE JUDGES BEHOLDEN TO THEM ON OUR FEDERAL BENCH HERE, so as to change the course of the law in this state vis-a-vis the church/state relationship is an affront to OUR Constitutional history, here in New York State, and I, for one, am standing up in this forum, and I am speaking about about this threat to OUR religious liberty, which is coming directly from BLATANT ATTEMPTS AT TYRANNY OF THIS MAJORITY PARTY down there in Washington, D.C., at the hands of George W. Bush, Bill Frist, and Tommy DeLay!

We now exist!

And for people like me in OUR America, what a thought that is!

Parity, at least as far as the power of the truly democratic press goes, here in OUR America!

Each of us here in OUR America is now a publisher, and editor, and creative writer, and correspondent, and yes, "muck raker", even if we are in physical actuality confined to a wheelchair on a mountain top way out in the country somewhere, and so, the weakest are becoming equal to the strongest, in voice, in the PUBLIC SQUARE, where that dialogue belongs, as it was back in the good days of the Roman Republic, before it destroyed itself in an orgy of stupidity and greed!

This in here is politics, American-style, and it is as pure as it can get, because it is going from citizen to citizen without any filters at all, other than what is considered by each of us to be OUR own individual standards of conduct!

And by these "writings" in here, we, ALL OF US, are collectively doing exactly as young Alexander Hamiltion, a foreign-born man who served as Aide-de-Camp to George Washington during the American Revolution, said we must continue to do as Americans, 24/7, which is to continue to prove, as "THE PEOPLE" of this country, THAT BY OUR CONDUCT AND EXAMPLE, WE, the PEOPLE, you and I, ARE CAPABLE of deciding the important question, WHETHER SOCIETIES OF MEN AND WOMEN ARE REALLY CAPABLE OR NOT, of establishing good government from reflection and choice, and WE CHOOSE TO ANSWER THAT IN THE AFFIRMATIVE!

SO!

THEN .....

It comes down to OUR CONDUCT AND EXAMPLE, and this is mine!

My best offering, I guess you would say, back to young Alexander Hamilton, for him to judge whether WE have passed the test!

ARE WE, AMERICA, "THE PEOPLE" of this country, REALLY CAPABLE OF PROVING, to ALL the candid world watching, THAT BY OUR CONDUCT AND EXAMPLE, WE, the PEOPLE, you and I, ARE CAPABLE of deciding the important question, WHETHER SOCIETIES OF MEN AND WOMEN ARE REALLY CAPABLE OR NOT, of establishing good government from reflection and choice?

Which way will you go?

Which side are you on?

Stay tuned for further developments, as they happen!

Updated regularly by live people!

This is not a recording!

[Livyjr]

And speaking of George W. Bush, and the "boot" coming down on these people over there in Uzbekistan who want their own "Orange" or "Rose" Revolution like the people George W. Bush is praising in Georgia had, we have as follows:

"Uzbek Protesters Killed As Soldiers Attack"

By BAGILA BUKHARBAYEVA, Associated Press Writer

ANDIJAN, Uzbekistan - Soldiers loyal to Uzbekistan's authoritarian leader, a U.S. ally, opened fire on thousands of demonstrators Friday to put down an uprising that began when armed men freed 2,000 inmates from prison, including suspects on trial for alleged Islamic extremism.

The death toll from a day of violence in the eastern Uzbek city was not known.

The government said nine died before the shootings in the square but gave no overall figure.

Witnesses said dozens may have been killed by the troops, who rode into the square in a truck behind an armored personnel carrier as helicopters hovered overhead.

The prison raid and the soldiers' fusillades were in sharp contrast to the largely peaceful uprisings that sparked regime changes in the former Soviet republics of Georgia, Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan in the past 18 months.

President Islam Karimov is regarded as one of the harshest leaders in the former Soviet Union and apparently favors quick and decisive action against any threats to his regime.

Uzbekistan is a key Washington ally in the war on terrorism and hosts a U.S. air base to support military operations in neighboring Afghanistan following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

But it also is frequently denounced by human rights groups and Western governments for torture and repression of opposition.

The White House urged restraint by the government and the demonstrators.

"The people of Uzbekistan want to see a more representative and democratic government."

"But that should come through peaceful means not through violence, and that's what our message is," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

"We have had concerns about human rights in Uzbekistan, but we are concerned about the outbreak of violence, particularly by some members of a terrorist organization that were freed from prison."

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As White House "SPOKESBOY" Scottie McClellan says, this is just one more shining example of what he would have us believe is DEMOCRACY on the march across the world at the behest of President George W. Bush, who just happens to be Scottie "BOY" McClellan's favorite president of all time!

This soldier firing business is what REPUBLICANS call democracy!

What an interesting use of the term that is, is what I think!

How is it government by the people when the tyranical BUSH-ally over there in Uzbekistan has his soldiers mowing down people in the streets for wanting democracy, which is government by the people?

What is it that I am missing here?

"Uzbek president blames Islamic group for violence"

By Dmitry Solovyov

Sat May 14, 1:15 PM ET

ANDIZHAN, Uzbekistan (Reuters) - Uzbek President Islam Karimov on Saturday blamed Islamic militants for violence in which troops fired on protesters and hundreds of people are alleged to have been killed.

One human rights campaigner said the overall death toll on Friday could have been as high as 500, which would make it the bloodiest incident in Uzbekistan's post-Soviet history.

The government of Uzbekistan, Central Asia's most populous state, is an ally of both Moscow and of Washington's "war on terror" and has been widely accused of severe repression of political opponents.

Few observers expected the uprising in the eastern town of Andizhan to emulate the success of the March rebellion in neighboring Kyrgyzstan which led to the overthrow of its president.

In his first word on the violence in Andizhan, Karimov denied any order had been given to troops to open fire.

He said rebels who seized a state building belonged to the outlawed Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir.

"I know that you want to know who gave the order to fire at them ... No one ordered (troops) to fire at them," a visibly angry Karimov told a news conference in the capital Tashkent.

Karimov, in power since 1989, said 10 police and troops had been killed and 100 wounded.

He said there was a higher number of rebel casualties, but made no mention of dead or wounded among protesters.

He said the protesters were relatives of the 30 rebels who stationed them as human shields outside the building they took over.

But a human rights campaigner in Andizhan, Saidzhakhon Zainabitdinov from the Uzbek rights group Appeal, told Reuters by telephone:

"The total number of deaths could reach 500 people from both sides."

Most of the dead were killed by heavy machineguns mounted on armored personnel carriers, he said, adding the streets were strewn with spent bullet-casings.

A pro-opposition reporter counted 30 corpses and a doctor spoke of "many, many dead."

A protest of around 1,000 people continued on Saturday, but the situation was calmer and fewer soldiers were on the streets, Zainabitdinov said.

The violence in Uzbekistan follows unrest in March in neighboring Kyrgyzstan, where violent protests started in the city of Osh, just across the border from Andizhan, and led to the ousting of President Askar Akayev.

THOUSANDS FLEE

According to Kyrgyz border guards, as many as 4,000 people, including women and children, fled to the nearby village of Kara-Su on the closed border.

At another point, 500 people forced their way across the border.

Karimov said the rebels had hoped the upheaval in Kyrgyzstan would help them to foment trouble.

In the past 18 months, there have been peaceful uprisings in two other ex-Soviet republics, Ukraine and Georgia, both of which installed Western-leaning leaders.

Central Asia's hardline leaders have reacted by clamping down further on dissent.

Russian news agencies said Karimov called Russian President Vladimir Putin and both men expressed concern at the danger of destabilization in Central Asia, made up of five ex-Soviet states of which Uzbekistan is the most populous.

The EU and NATO called for a peaceful resolution to the Uzbekistan conflict.

Analysts said the unrest was unlikely to spread as it did in Kyrgyzstan, because of Karimov's tight grip on the country.

"I think that repression is basically the policy of the Uzbek government and this will be quite brutally suppressed, I fear," Craig Murray, Britain's former ambassador, told British television.

"This is a much less liberal regime than was in Kyrgyzstan or Georgia."

HIZB UT-TAHRIR DENIES INVOLVEMENT

The anti-government Hizb ut-Tahrir denied starting the violence.

The pan-Islamic group has been blamed by Karimov for several past attacks, but it says it is non-violent.

Karimov said Hizb ut-Tahrir was behind explosions last July that killed four people at the U.S. and Israeli embassies and at the prosecutor's office in Tashkent, and responsible for suicide bombings that killed 50 people a year ago.

The protesters, some calling for Karimov to stand down, gathered on Friday after armed rebels stormed a prison and freed inmates, including 23 businessmen charged with religious extremism.

The rebels then seized the building and took about 10 police hostage.

Former ambassador Murray said the 23 had been detained on "patently false charges of Islamic extremism."

Uzbek troops retook the state building from the rebels late on Friday, but the area was sealed off and sporadic gunfire was heard.

Officials said the rebels had refused to compromise.

Journalists were told to leave Andizhan, but some were able to return later in the day after roadblocks were eased.

Uzbekistan, a Central Asian country bordering Afghanistan, gave the United States use of a military airbase after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on U.S. cities.

The country is one of the world's leading cotton exporters, is a gold producer, and has some oil and gas reserves.

But its largly state-controlled economy has failed to attract investment.

Rights groups say there are at least 6,000 religious and political prisoners in Uzbekistan, where only state-sponsored Islam is allowed, and that torture is widely used.

(Additional reporting by Shamil Baigin in Ferghana, Maria Golovnina in Tashkent and Olga Dzyubenko in Bishkek)

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Torture is widely used, it is reported, and the leader is a real thug, and surprise, surprise, there is George W. Bush and Donnie Rumsfeld, right there in bed with him!

Saddam Hussein all over again, except this time, it is the Bush son and not the father who is the PATRON!

[jeffmoskin]

That is what existed back in the 1700's, where people in the back-country of places like Virginia had their own belief systems, and churchs and ministrys, and yet still had to pay taxes to support another, that was not theirs.

Taxes back then were primarily duties on imports. Income tax didn't get going until 1913.

ARE WE, AMERICA, "THE PEOPLE" of this country, REALLY CAPABLE OF PROVING, to ALL the candid world watching, THAT BY OUR CONDUCT AND EXAMPLE, WE, the PEOPLE, you and I, ARE CAPABLE of deciding the important question, WHETHER SOCIETIES OF MEN AND WOMEN ARE REALLY CAPABLE OR NOT, of establishing good government from reflection and choice?

Yes we are capable of establishing good government from reflection and choice.

Yes we are capable of establishing bad government from reflection and choice.

Right now, the baddies are running the show. They are a minority junta. The majority of Americans exercised their right not to vote. Maybe by next election they will realize that was an error.