Life in OUR America, Volume 2, The Livyjr Files Options

[Livyjr]

It is entirely possible that the gains in stock prices is due more to the influx of petrodollars (OUR stolen gas money) being recycled than to so-called "investor optimism."

After all, with manufacturing jobs disappearing, what's the cause for optimism?

It would be interesting to apply some scientific reasoning to the stock market to see if it is a "hunting" type of system, consistently rising and falling in response to some set of external inputs, forever overshooting, and then reacting to its overshooting by reversing course, only to overshoot on that end as well, which causes it to "hunt" and "hunt" and "hunt", with no rhyme or reason in sight as to why that is so, other than the dynamics of the system are unbalanced!

And with that said, it would also be interesting to see whether or not the stock market might be "damped" in any particular way, and I say that because I think what is happening is a few big computers are now watching each other in essence, and they are "surging" each other, looking for "openings" programmed into them, and in the meantime, here are all these stray factors, individual investors, acting as random noise, as they try to follow the logic employed by these computers in buying and selling, AND THERE ISN'T ANY!

Just reactions to noise by a "hunting" system!

And George W. Bush wants people to base the security of their futures on that?

Yeah, right!

Might as well just go straight to the roulette wheel!

At least that is not listening to a bunch of computers sending a bunch of spurious signals back and forth, intermixed with a bunch of random noise, and so, your chances at winning are probably enhanced!

Maybe George W. Bush will study that option and include it as part of his social security plan, and he'll get a vote from Donald Trump, and well, that is something, I guess.

[Livyjr]

And speaking of the transformational power of the internet in action:

"Bikini-clad beauty queens offend Thais"

By Sasithorn Simaporn
Thu May 19,11:40 AM ET

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Miss Universe organizers scrambled on Thursday to calm a furor over photos of bikini-clad contestants posing near an ancient Buddhist temple in pageant host Thailand after the images infuriated religious leaders.

The photos, which showed beauty queens on a Bangkok river cruise with the famed Wat Arun, or "Temple of Dawn," in the background, were swiftly removed from the pageant Web site.

But religious leaders and culture watchdogs are still upset, saying the episode violated traditional values and morality just days before a key Buddhist holiday.

"This is the time of Visakha Bucha when we are reminded of Lord Buddha's teachings."

"But we have allowed this thing which will mark the country with sin for a long time," Phra Thep Dilok, head of the National Center for Buddhism Promotion, told Reuters.

Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who hopes the pageant will give Thailand's tsunami-hit tourist industry a badly-needed boost, has urged Thais not to overreact.

Thailand has spent 265 million baht ($6.7 million) on hosting the event and expects to earn 3.2 billion baht ($80.4 million) in revenue from the pageant and other activities.

And speaking of tsunami-ravaged economies, versus war-ravaged economies such as ours, what about that tsunami, anyway?

What was that all about, does anyone think?

Part of an intelligent design?

Or just plain old evolution?

Or is GOD finally p***ed-off, but good, and at us, to boot?

"Sumatra Quake Shook Earth's Total Surface"

By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID, Associated Press Writer

2 hours, 12 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - December's great Sumatra-Andaman earthquake — the most powerful in more than 40 years and the trigger of a devastating tsunami — shook the ground everywhere on Earth's surface.

Weeks later the planet was still trembling.

The quake resulted from the longest fault rupture ever observed — 720 miles to 780 miles, which spread for 10 minutes, also a record.

A typical earthquake's duration would be 30 seconds.

The December quake was the first of its size to be measured and studied by the new worldwide array of digital seismic instruments.

Those results are starting to come in, with a special section of a half-dozen research papers on the quake appearing in Friday's issue of the journal Science.

"This is really a watershed event."

"We've never had such comprehensive data for a great earthquake because we didn't have the instrumentation to gather it 40 years ago," said Thorne Lay, professor of Earth sciences and director of the Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics at the University of California, Santa Cruz.

"It is nature at its most formidable," Lay said in a statement.

The earthquake and resulting tsunami, which swept across the Indian Ocean, killed more than 176,000 people in 11 countries and left about 50,000 missing and hundreds of thousands homeless.

The quake occurred where two of the giant plates that form the surface of the Earth grind together.

At that spot the Eurasian plate was being pulled downward by the descending Indo-Australian plate.

The quake released the edge of the Eurasian plate, which sprang up, lifting the ocean floor and sending the sea water off in the giant wave that killed so many, the researchers reported.

They said the higher sea floor displaced so much water from the Bay of Bengal and the Andaman Sea that sea level worldwide was raised 0.004 inch.

"No point on Earth remained undisturbed," wrote Roger Bilham of the University of Colorado.

Indeed, ground movement of as much as 0.4 inch occurred everywhere on Earth's surface, though it was too small to be felt in most areas.

And the temblor "delivered a blow to our planet" that was felt for weeks, noted a team of researchers led by Jeffrey Park of Yale University.

His group calculated that the quake caused the planet to oscillate like a bell, at periods of about 17 minutes, which they were able to measure for weeks afterward.

A similar phenomenon was first noted in the 1960 quake in Chile.

The initial Dec. 26 Sumatra quake is estimated to have had a magnitude of 9.1 to 9.3 and a second quake to the south on March 28 registered 8.6.

By comparison, the 1960 Chile earthquake was magnitude 9.5 and the 1964 Alaska earthquake was magnitude 9.2.

California's 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake had a magnitude of 6.9.

Among the other findings reported in the various papers:

_ In Sri Lanka, more than 1,000 miles from the epicenter, the ground moved nearly 4 inches.

_ The rupture spread from south to north, resulting in a Doppler effect in instruments measuring it.

Seismometers in Russia recorded the quake at a higher frequency because it was moving toward them, while those in Australia measured a lower frequency as it moved away.

_ When the surface waves from the Sumatra quake reached Alaska they triggered a swarm of 14 local earthquakes in the Mount Wrangell area.

In addition to Lay, Bilham and Park, the lead authors of the articles were Charles J. Ammon of Pennsylvania State University, Michael West of the University of Alaska and Roland Burgmann of the University of California, Berkeley. Burgmann's article was published in Science Express, the journal's online edition.

___

On the Net:

Science: http://www.sciencemag.org

[Livyjr]

As one of America's many veterans, I have to wonder at what is going on here with this Donald Rumsfeld character, and exactly what is his goal for OUR American military, which he is supposed to be in charge of, although as a disabled veteran, I truly have to wonder at his qualifications for the task, which seem to be none at all, other than that he is a powerful REPUBLICAN with an alleged huge "portfolio" of corporate stock holdings that makes his personal involvement with OUR military very suspect to me, ESPECIALLY SINCE OUR AMERICA NOW SEEMS TO BE WEAKER MILITARILY THAN AT ANY TIME IN ITS PRIOR HISTORY, or in my lifetime anyway, which includes the Korean debacle, where OUR military forces were not very prepared at all, for seemingly anything, especially armed conflict in a foreign land like Korea!

Old Donnie Rumsfeld keeps talking about making OUR military "leaner", but what does that really mean?

No answers forthcoming!

From the May 18, 2005 edition of the Christian Science Monitor

ANY TAKERS? Army Staff Sgt. Christian Marsh watched a wave of students pass by at the Edmonds-Woodway High School in Edmonds, Wash. Recruiters are struggling to meet enlistment numbers.

"Rift over recruiting at public high schools - A Seattle high school bars military solicitation, touching off debate over Iraq war and free speech.

By Dean Paton | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

SEATTLE – While most Parent Teacher Student Association meetings might center on finding funding for better math books or the best way to chaperon a school dance, a recent meeting here at Garfield High School grappled with something much larger - the war in Iraq.

The school is perhaps one of the first in the nation to debate and vote against military recruiting on high school campuses - a topic already simmering at the college level.

In fact, the Supreme Court recently agreed to decide whether the federal government can withhold funds from colleges that bar military recruiters.

High schools are struggling with a similar issue as the No Child Left Behind Act requires that schools receiving federal funding must release the names of its students to recruiters.

Some feel that's an invasion of privacy prompted by a war effort that has largely divided the American public.

Others say barring recruiters is an infringement of free speech - and a snub to the military, particularly in a time of war.

Garfield High School took a decisive step last week with a vote of 25 to 5 to adopt a resolution that says "public schools are not a place for military recruiters."

All this comes as recruiters struggle to meet enlistment goals.

Although PTA chapters are supposed to be "nonsectarian and nonpartisan, which means nonpolitical," according to Jenny Sopko, a spokeswoman for the national PTA in Chicago, Garfield's PTSA cochair maintains that its action is "wholly consistent with our mission."

"The mission of the PTA is to protect and defend kids," says Amy Hagopian, a mother of three whose son is a Garfield senior.

"It's not just limited to education issues - which explains why the PTA takes positions on kids' health, violence, and other serious issues."

Garfield, with 1,600 students, is one of Seattle's top high schools, routinely producing bumper crops of National Merit Scholars, plus internationally acclaimed student orchestras and jazz bands.

It's also racially diverse, with African-American students making up 31 percent of its student population.

Like so many schools today, Garfield grapples with painful budget cuts, loss of teachers, and dwindling resources.

The school's opposition to military recruitment seems, in part, a result of parents' growing realization that tax money spent for the Iraq war is money not spent on children's educations or other domestic needs.

"They're spending $4 billion a month in Iraq, but we have to cut our race relations class, which costs $12,500," Ms. Hagopian pointed out.

"That's an important class for our kids."

During discussion at the PTSA's meeting last week, Ted Inkley argued against the resolution because he thought it dangerous to deny free speech to organizations simply because their philosophies or intentions disagreed with the PTSA.

Mr. Inkley, an attorney whose daughter is a senior, told the crowded library he could "easily" see a resolution by some other PTA that banned Planned Parenthood representatives from campus because of their views on contraception and abortion.

Steve Ludwig, whose son is a senior and whose daughter will enter as a freshman next fall, made a point shared by many in attendance: Garfield does not allow organizations that promote illegal activities to recruit students to perform those activities, nor does it allow organizations that discriminate on the basis of race, gender, national origin, or sexual orientation to recruit on campus.

"Planned Parenthood, as far as I know, does not advocate or perform illegal acts."

"The US military does," Mr. Ludwig continued.

The soft-spoken carpenter said he would not object if Army representatives came to Garfield to debate their ideas on torture or aggressive war.

"What I object to is their coming here to recruit students to perform those acts," he said.

"It's not about free speech."

Nationally, there's a growing sense that recruiters desperate to bolster falling enlistment numbers are misrepresenting sign-up agreements to entice recruits.

In response to 480 allegations of improprieties by recruiters since Oct. 1, the Army announced it will suspend its recruiting for one day on May 20, so commanders can remind its 7,500 recruiters of proper conduct.

Douglas Smith, a US Army spokesman, said the job of recruiters is not to make promises but to show applicants possibilities and career options.

"As for a recruiter making promises and not following through, the recruiter's not in any position to promise anything."

"We hope that all our recruiters are communicating honestly with our applicants," Mr. Smith said.

But he added, "In the contract [between the new soldier and the Army] it says, 'Anything the recruiter may have promised me is moot.'"

Smith also pointed out the legality of military recruitment activity on campuses.

"The No Child Left Behind Act requires schools to let us have access to these students," he says.

Indeed, the resolution by Garfield's PTSA is more symbol than policy, for Seattle, like virtually all school districts, requires high schools to give recruiters access to students - or risk losing federal funding under Section 9528 of the act.

School districts also are required to notify parents and students that they may "opt out" by signing a letter preventing recruiters from getting their names.

In response to Garfield's resolution, Seattle's district issued a statement reinforcing its policy of allowing recruiters to work on high school campuses, but also said it would increase efforts next fall to make it easier for parents and students to opt out.

"Nothing in this resolution prevents students desirous of joining the military from doing so," said Sasha Riser-Kositsky, a Garfield sophomore from a written statement during last week's meeting.

"Indeed, there is a recruiting center within a five-minute walking distance of Garfield."

[Livyjr]

From the May 18, 2005 edition of the Christian Science Monitor 
 
ANY TAKERS? Army Staff Sgt. Christian Marsh watched a wave of students pass by at the Edmonds-Woodway High School in Edmonds, Wash. Recruiters are struggling to meet enlistment numbers.

"Rift over recruiting at public high schools - A Seattle high school bars military solicitation, touching off debate over Iraq war and free speech.

By Dean Paton | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

SEATTLE – While most Parent Teacher Student Association meetings might center on finding funding for better math books or the best way to chaperon a school dance, a recent meeting here at Garfield High School grappled with something much larger - the war in Iraq.

The school is perhaps one of the first in the nation to debate and vote against military recruiting on high school campuses - a topic already simmering at the college level.

In fact, the Supreme Court recently agreed to decide whether the federal government can withhold funds from colleges that bar military recruiters.

High schools are struggling with a similar issue as the No Child Left Behind Act requires that schools receiving federal funding must release the names of its students to recruiters.

Some feel that's an invasion of privacy prompted by a war effort that has largely divided the American public.

Others say barring recruiters is an infringement of free speech - and a snub to the military, particularly in a time of war.

The school's opposition to military recruitment seems, in part, a result of parents' growing realization that tax money spent for the Iraq war is money not spent on children's educations or other domestic needs.

"They're spending $4 billion a month in Iraq, but we have to cut our race relations class, which costs $12,500," Ms. Hagopian pointed out.

"That's an important class for our kids."

Steve Ludwig, whose son is a senior and whose daughter will enter as a freshman next fall, made a point shared by many in attendance: Garfield does not allow organizations that promote illegal activities to recruit students to perform those activities, nor does it allow organizations that discriminate on the basis of race, gender, national origin, or sexual orientation to recruit on campus.

"Planned Parenthood, as far as I know, does not advocate or perform illegal acts."

"The US military does," Mr. Ludwig continued.

The soft-spoken carpenter said he would not object if Army representatives came to Garfield to debate their ideas on torture or aggressive war.

"What I object to is their coming here to recruit students to perform those acts," he said.

"It's not about free speech."

And speaking of George W. Bush's botched-up attempt to simply take over the oil fields of Iraq, which on-going fiasco, the legacy of thoughtlessness and p***-poor planning, is now costing US, $5 BILLION a month, what is the latest from over there in that now-beleaguered and tormented land:

"Iraq Calls on Neighbors to Stop Insurgency"

By PATRICK QUINN, Associated Press Writer

Thu May 19, 3:11 PM ET

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari called on neighboring countries Thursday to help prevent foreign terrorists from crossing into Iraq as a series of attacks killed more than a dozen Iraqis and two American soldiers.

Al-Jaafari's appeal came a day after a top U.S. military official said the leaders of Iraq's most notorious terrorist group recently held a secret meeting in neighboring Syria, where they plotted the recent wave of insurgent violence that has killed hundreds of people.

"There are infiltrations of non-Iraqis through the border to carry out sabotage activities," al-Jaafari said of the meeting that may have been attended by most-wanted militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi himself.

"It's up to our geographical neighbors."

"We are keen to preserve relations between us and neighboring countries, and these relations should be good."

He was speaking after a meeting with U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Robert Zoellick, who said al-Zarqawi's aim was to divide Iraqi society.

"Part of these attacks stem from the successes of the new government."

"The insurgents wanted to stop the elections and failed."

"The insurgents wanted to stop the formation of a new Iraqi government and they failed, so now they are trying to split the society," Zoellick said.

He added that "it's very clear that this evil wants to destroy a democratic Iraq."

"These people will not be easy to counter because they commit suicide in a random way."

Zoellick said he and al-Jaafari had discussed the militant meeting in Syria and the prime minister "was quite strong in his statements about the need for Iraq's neighbors, and particularly Syria ... not to undermine stability here."

The Syrian meeting has led to one of the bloodiest periods since the U.S.-led invasion two years ago.

More than 520 people have been killed — including an oil ministry employee gunned down in front of his house Thursday — since the country's new Shiite-dominated government was announced April 28.

The oil ministry employee Ali Hamid Alwan al-Dulaimy, 31, was killed by three men firing pistols from a minivan as he walked out of his house toward his car in Baghdad, his brother, Ahmed Hamid Alwan al-Dulaimy, said in a telephone interview.

Also Thursday, eight people were killed and three injured in an ambush in the northern city of Mosul against Fawaz al-Jarba, a member of the Iraqi National Assembly who was a recent candidate for parliament speaker.

At least eight bodies were taken to the Jamhouri Teaching Hospital after they were killed in or near al-Jarba's house, Dr. Bahaa-Eddine al-Bakri said.

Al-Jarba was not injured.

Witnesses and Ali al-Faisal, a member of the Shiite clergy-backed United Iraqi Alliance, said U.S. troops were involved in the incident, but their role remained unclear.

The U.S. military was investigating, a spokesman said.

One U.S. soldier was killed when his convoy struck a roadside bomb in southeast Baghdad, the military said.

Another American soldier was killed and five wounded late Wednesday in a rocket attack on Camp Ar Ramadi, 70 miles west of Baghdad.

The soldiers' names were withheld pending notification of relatives.

Three American soldiers also were injured when a roadside bomb blast struck their patrol in Dujayl, 35 miles north of Baghdad, military spokesman Sgt. David Rhodes said.

At least 1,624 members of the U.S. military have died since the Iraq war started in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.

A suicide bomber also drove his car into an Iraqi army checkpoint in southern Baghdad's Dora neighborhood, killing one soldier and injuring eight, Iraqi army Capt. Firas Aied said.

Meanwhile, Iran's foreign minister met Thursday with Iraq's top Shiite Muslim cleric in the holy city of Najaf, south of Baghdad.

Kamal Kharrazi, the highest level official from any of Iraq's six neighbors to visit Iraq since Saddam Hussein's ouster two years ago, met with Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.

No details were available, but both men have called for calm in Iraq amid an increased number of apparent tit-for-tat killings between the Shiite and Sunni populations.

Kharrazi said his visit to Najaf, which included a stop at the shrine of Imam Ali in Najaf, one of Iraq's holiest, was a "religious journey, not a political one."

Facing accusations that Iraq's neighbors were doing too little to stop terrorists from entering Iraq, Kharrazi said there was no proof Iran was supporting militants here and claims Tehran was backing the insurgency were "baseless.

"The Iraqi provinces along the Iranian borders, are more secured than other provinces," Kharrazi said at a press conference.

Also this week, a chilling, rambling Internet audiotape purportedly by al-Zarqawi surfaced.

It denounced Iraq's Shiites as U.S. collaborators and said killing them is justified.

The Jordanian-born al-Zarqawi and his key militant leadership have met at least five times in foreign countries during the conflict, most recently during the past 30 days in Syria, according to the senior U.S. military official, who briefed reporters on condition he not be named.

He did not identify the other countries but said neighboring Iran, a Shiite theocracy, was not one of them.

He said the military obtained information during questioning of insurgent prisoners, from Iraqi military sources and field intelligence in determining that the most recent meeting had taken place in Syria.

He said that U.S. forces were constantly disrupting insurgent activities, but success was not guaranteed and could take "many years."

"If we fail, the different groups would be at each other's throats and warfare would continue for some time," he said.

"If we take our foot off their throats, this country could be back into civil war and chaos."

The Syrian foreign and information ministries were unavailable for comment on the alleged terrorist gathering on their soil.

In other developments:

_A roadside bomb killed two Iraqi police officers in Baqouba.

_Gunmen killed policeman Omar Majeed Shakir al-Dosh and his father in Samarra, officials said.

_A drive-by shooting late Wednesday killed Salah Niyazi, an official from the Youth and Sport Ministry, in Baghdad, police said.

_The opening of a NATO training camp for Iraqi officers in Baghdad has been delayed until at least late September, German Gen. Harald Kujat, chairman of the alliance's military committee, said in Hungary.

____

Associated Press Writers Bassem Mroue and Paul Garwood in Baghdad contributed to this story.

[Livyjr]

"Rebels Seize Control of Uzbekistan Town"

By BAGILA BUKHARBAYEVA, Associated Press Writer
Wed May 18, 3:15 PM ET

KORASUV, Uzbekistan - Rebels cherishing the prospect of a strict Islamic state were firmly in control of this border town Wednesday, throwing up a new challenge to the government as it tried to prove to skeptical diplomats that its troops didn't fire on innocent civilians.

"People are tired of slavery."

Regardless of officials' attempt to shrug it off, the insurgency in Korasuv ratchets up the stakes for Uzbekistan, a U.S. ally in the war against terrorism.

Observers of the impoverished Central Asia region have long feared that any social unrest could be used by Islamic groups to promote their own goals.

The uprising in Andijan that set off the violence Friday focused largely on social and economic demands.

But it may have provided the opening Islamic militants have craved.

Karimov's government has blamed the unrest on militants and has denied that troops fired on any civilians, though an AP reporter saw troops opening fire on protesters in Andijan on Friday.

The government cites 169 dead in Andijan, but opposition activists say more than 700 were killed — more than 500 in Andijan and about 200 in Pakhtabad — most of them civilians.

Judging by Friday's shooting, the government's first response was to crush the Andijan uprising before it could spread farther.

But the emergence of a second hotspot in Korasuv, 20 miles to the southeast on the border with Kyrgyzstan, has coincided with an intense international focus on Uzbekistan — attention that may be staying Karimov's hand.

Uzbek officials took foreign diplomats and journalists on a lightning-quick tour of Andijan on Wednesday, showing them a prison and the local administration building and arranging meetings with local officials, as the top U.N. human rights official called for an independent investigation.

The delegation was kept blocks away from the people of Andijan, leaving little chance for an objective assessment of Friday's violence.

Almatov ignored a reporter's request to visit to a school where a prominent doctor had said 500 bodies were stored after the violence.

The doctor spoke on condition of anonymity out of fears for her safety.

After three hours in Andijan, the delegation was treated to a lavish lunch of the national lamb-and-rice dish, plov, and flown back to the capital, Tashkent.

Some diplomats complained the trip was too short and that there was no opportunity to speak to residents.

"I think we need to be realistic about how much can be achieved in a whistle-stop tour of ambassadors in a large delegation format over such a short period," said British Ambassador David Moran.

"I think what we need now is a systematic process of openness that will enable the international community to make an authoritative assessment of the scale and nature of what happened here."

end quotes

Karimov?

That's the thug that George W. Bush is in bed with over there, isn't he?

And speaking of George W. Bush's buddy, Karimov, how's things going over there with this alleged probe into Bush-buddy Karimov's alleged order to machine-gun a few hundred of HIS innocent people over there, just to show the candid world that he is as tough as George W. Bush when push comes to open fire?

"Uzbek president turns down UN rights probe"

45 minutes ago

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Uzbekistan President Islam Karimov told U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Thursday he "did not favor" a U.N. human rights probe into violence in the eastern part of the country, a senior U.N. official said.

Louise Arbour, the U.N. high commissioner for human rights, has called on Uzbekistan to allow an independent international inquiry into reports of killings by security forces in the town of Andizhan last week.

But Karimov "did not favor an international inquiry at this time," the U.N. official said.

The president said on Tuesday that 32 soldiers and 137 other people had died in the violence that consumed Uzbekistan's Feragna Valley.

Survivors said 500 people died in the town of Andizhan when troops raked crowds with machine gun and rifle fire.

Karimov blamed Muslim rebel protesters for the killings.

U.N. spokesman Fred Eckhard said that Annan had a lengthy telephone conversation with Karimov during which they "reviewed in depth the situation in Andizhan."

Eckhard described the talk as "constructive" but gave no further details.

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw supported Arbour's call on Wednesday and told the BBC that official explanations had been inadequate.

Annan also discussed Uzbekistan with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Wednesday, Eckhard said.

"There's a variety of ways to bring all the facts to light," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said on Wednesday.

"And I'm sure the international community would want to be part of it and want to assist."

"But exactly how that should be structured, I don't have anything yet."

end quotes

I wonder how come we have not heard a single peep from Miss "Con-Job Connie" on this matter!

Must be it's alright to do, so long as you are a friend of Mr. George W. Bush, and isn't that just something now, will you!

[Livyjr]

Attention John Kerry!

Four years ago, Antonio Villaraigosa lost to Jim Hahn in the same race for mayor.

The reason?

Simple.

Hahn ran smear ads against Antonio Villaraigosa during the last week of the campaign. Antonio Villaraigosa was too much of a gentleman to even acknowledge them, much less counter them.

Years ago, I learned (in court) that " AN UNREFUTED LIE BECOMES ACCEPTED AS THE TRUTH"

This year, Antonio Villaraigosa cried "BULLSH*T" at all of Hahn's smears.

The result?

Antonio Villaraigosa won with 60 percent of the vote.

Elections work when:

a: people vote.

b: the votes are counted (fairly)

c: BULLSH*T is vigorously opposed.

Attention John Kerry!

Did you copy that?

"Villaraigosa's Support Goes Beyond Latinos"

By Michael Finnegan and Mark Z. Barabak, LA Times Staff Writers
Thu May 19, 7:55 AM ET

Antonio Villaraigosa won a crushing victory in the Los Angeles mayoral race by spurring a record Latino turnout and broadening his support across the city among voters of every stripe, who deserted incumbent James K. Hahn in droves.

For all the significance of the victor's breakthrough as the first Latino elected mayor of modern Los Angeles, ethnic pride was just part of what powered his 17-point win.

By overwhelming margins, Villaraigosa captured Democrats, liberals and younger voters, according to a Times exit poll.

He also won a majority of San Fernando Valley residents, union members and Jewish voters.

His support among blacks more than doubled from what he won in his 2001 mayoral contest against Hahn — although it fell just shy of half.

But it was Villaraigosa's huge support among Latinos that turned his victory into a landslide, ushering Hahn out of office — effective July 1 — after a lone term.

The city councilman sparked a surge in Latino turnout and won 84% of those voters.

For the first time in modern Los Angeles, the Times Poll found, the Latino share of the city's electorate reached 25% — up from 22% in the Villaraigosa-Hahn contest four years ago, and up from a mere 10% in the 1993 mayoral race.

The city's heavily Latino Eastside produced the strongest turnout in the city, preliminary election results show.

Although the city clerk expects the final tally to show citywide turnout at about 33%, on the Eastside it ran as high as 38% and could climb further as the last batch of votes are counted.

"Clearly this energized Latinos more than people's perception of the campaign would have indicated," said Raphael Sonenshein, a political science professor at Cal State Fullerton.

For Hahn, the election marked a collapse in support across the spectrum of voters.

Even among groups that clearly favored him over Villaraigosa — Republicans, conservatives, Asian Americans and voters age 65 and older — Hahn ran weaker than he did four years ago, according to the exit poll.

Voters had a strongly favorable view of Villaraigosa, but even those who backed Hahn were unenthusiastic about their choice.

Two-thirds of Villaraigosa supporters voted for the councilman because they liked him and his stands on issues.

But for Hahn, about 6 in 10 supporters said they saw him as "the lesser of two evils."

Nearly 3 in 10 Hahn backers offered no positive reason for their vote.

"Doing nothing but smearing Antonio might have persuaded conservatives that he was the lesser of two evils, but it didn't give anyone a motivation to vote for him," said Villaraigosa strategist Parke Skelton, referring to Hahn's decision to run television ads attacking his rival instead of promoting his own record.

Hahn strategist Bill Carrick described the mayor as a victim of his own success.

He said Hahn's effort to trumpet the drop in violent crime on his watch had difficulty gaining traction, because the mayor's success diminished the issue's importance to voters.

"Crime goes down, and people take it for granted," the strategist said.

Carrick also attributed Hahn's performance partly to the harm he suffered in the first round of the mayoral race, when Villaraigosa and three other candidates reinforced one another's attacks on the mayor.

That dynamic both shaped voters' impressions of Hahn and hurt him in the eyes of donors who ended up being far more generous to Villaraigosa, Carrick said.

"There was a tremendous case to be made for the city being in pretty good shape," he said.

"But at the end of the day, when you get four people pounding you all the time, talking about how bad things are in the city, that drives the numbers down, and people develop an attitude: 'We need a change.'"

Overall, although the Times poll found education to be the most important issue for voters, there were distinctions depending on which candidate they backed.

Among Hahn voters, the most important factor driving their decision Tuesday was concern about crime and gangs.

That reflected Hahn's sharp criticism of Villaraigosa's past opposition to legal injunctions against gang members.

Among Villaraigosa supporters, the top concern was education — a view reinforced by his commercials, which cited the job of his wife, Corina, as a schoolteacher and his promise to salve the Los Angeles Unified School District's woes.

The voter survey, supervised by Times Poll Director Susan Pinkus, interviewed 3,191 voters as they left precincts across the city.

The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 2 percentage points overall, and more for smaller voter groups.

Among the survey's more striking findings was its confirmation of Hahn's loss of support among African Americans and Valley voters, the once-sturdy coalition that drove his 2001 triumph over Villaraigosa.

The mayor, whose father, Kenneth, built an African American political base for the family decades ago as a county supervisor, won 80% of the black vote four years ago.

But on Tuesday, he captured just 52% of those voters.

Among blacks who supported Villaraigosa, nearly two out of five cited the ouster of Police Chief Bernard C. Parks, an African American, as a main reason for their vote.

Also, 59% of the blacks who voted for Parks in the first round of mayoral voting in March shifted to Villaraigosa in the runoff.

Parks had endorsed and actively campaigned for Villaraigosa.

Yet the survey found sharp distinctions within the black community.

Black voters 45 and older — those most apt to fondly remember the legacy of Hahn's father — strongly favored the mayor over Villaraigosa.

Younger blacks leaned heavily toward the challenger.

Also, black men favored Villaraigosa, while black women strongly supported Hahn.

Villaraigosa, who won 48% of the black vote, had campaigned aggressively for African American support.

A large group of black leaders who backed Hahn in 2001 — among them former basketball star Magic Johnson, Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Los Angeles) and various church pastors — abandoned the mayor this year and vouched for Villaraigosa.

An ebullient Johnson helped introduce the winning candidate at his victory party.

"The really interesting and intriguing question is what happens to relations between Latinos and blacks now," Sonenshein said.

"Because by no means is this the sign of a full-scale coalition."

"But it is certainly a bridgehead in what could have been a purely competitive relationship."

In the Valley, as among blacks, Hahn suffered a sharp reversal of fortune.

In 2001, the Valley favored Hahn over Villaraigosa, 55% to 45%.

The election Tuesday flipped that precisely: The Valley opted for Villaraigosa over Hahn by the same 10-point margin.

A key problem for Hahn, the poll confirmed, was his 2002 campaign to kill the proposed secession of the Valley from the rest of Los Angeles.

Nearly three in 10 of the Valley voters who supported Villaraigosa cited secession as a main reason for their vote.

The preliminary election returns showed that Hahn carried the predominantly white parts of the Valley that he targeted heavily in his campaign, including Granada Hills, Chatsworth, Porter Ranch, West Hills, Tarzana, Sunland and Tujunga.

Many of the city's Republicans are concentrated in those areas.

Villaraigosa swept the central and eastern Valley, much of it populated by Latinos and white liberals.

Among the areas he won were Studio City, North Hollywood, Van Nuys, Canoga Park, Sylmar and Pacoima.

Outside the Valley, Hahn's strongest performance was around San Pedro, where he lives, along with scattered pockets of support in areas such as Brentwood, Bel-Air and downtown.

Another source of strength for Villaraigosa was union members: 60% backed him over Hahn even though the bulk of organized labor leadership endorsed the mayor's reelection.

It was another sharp turnaround for Hahn from four years ago.

In the 2001 campaign, when organized labor endorsed Villaraigosa, a majority of union members supported Hahn.

The result: Organized labor's endorsed candidates are 0 for 2 in recent mayoral elections — although rank-and-file union members have sided with the winner each time.

Skelton said Hahn's strong showing four years ago among African Americans depressed Villaraigosa's support among union members, because many are black.

In general, he added, union members' votes are guided by a "whole range of influences" beyond union leaders.

"They never vote in lock step with the union," he said.

Villaraigosa's standing with a host of other voting blocs also rose sharply from four years ago.

Among whites, his share of the vote grew from 41% to 50%.

Among Asian Americans, it jumped from 35% to 44%.

On the Westside, his support grew from 52% to 57%.

In South L.A., the jump was from 33% to 51%.

In the central and eastern portions of Los Angeles, from the Fairfax district to Boyle Heights to Eagle Rock, Villaraigosa's share of the vote surged from 58% in 2001 to 71% on Tuesday.

[Livyjr]

And for tonight, we finish with women, and the Army!

Should women be put into combat roles, the same as men?

Politics

"Women in combat: Lawmakers draw new line - Move to ban direct ground combat is retreat from broader ban"

MSNBC News Services
Updated: 12:45 p.m. ET May 19, 2005

WASHINGTON - House Republicans retreated from a sweeping ban on women in combat support and service units, and instead approved legislation backing the Pentagon’s policy barring women from direct ground combat in a bill passed overnight.

The House Armed Services Committee approved the narrower provision after the Army and Democrats said the amendment, rammed through a subcommittee last week, would close nearly 22,000 jobs to women, undermine morale, and hamper operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

“We want women to serve everywhere, except in ground combat,” said Rep. John McHugh, R-N.Y.

McHugh, chairman of the personnel subcommittee, said the amendment would require Congress to vote before women would be allowed in direct combat units.

The amendment was part of a bill authorizing $442 billion in defense programs for next fiscal year that the committee approved 61-1 in a marathon session that ended after midnight.

Democrats: Ban would demoralize women

The amendment would put into law a policy written 11 years ago by former Defense Secretary Les Aspin that was intended to expand the role of women in the military, but keep them from serving in ground battles.

Democrats said even the narrower amendment sent a demoralizing signal to women, was confusing and unnecessary.

“Women don’t deserve the kind of shabby treatment this committee’s been giving them the last week,” said Rep. Vic Snyder, D-Ark.

Rep. Loretta Sanchez, D-Calif., said Republicans were trying to “fix the terrible language” they put into the bill in the subcommittee.

The measure passed by the full committee was a major step back from the amendment passed last week by the personnel subcommittee that would have imposed a sweeping ban on women in combat support units.

Democrats called that amendment an insult to women serving in Iraq, and the Pentagon quickly raised its opposition.

Iraq combat support now 20 percent women

About 20 percent of the combat support and service units in Iraq are comprised of women, although Army policy keeps women from some support jobs such as repairing tanks or artillery in a fighting situation.

Gen. Richard Cody, the Army Vice Chief of Staff, in a letter to the committee said that amendment would “cause confusion in the ranks and send the wrong signal to the brave young men and women fighting the global war on terrorism.”

But Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., pushed the measure, saying Congress needed to weigh in on whether women should be in "forward support companies," which he said could happen soon unless it intervened.

Those units provide infantry, armor and artillery units with equipment, ammunition, maintenance and other supplies in combat zones.

The Army started allowing women to staff such support posts last year and says it is complying with the 1994 policy.

Hunter said there was “massive confusion” in Army policies on women in combat roles, and said it needed to be defined.

No mention in Senate bill

The Senate Armed Services Committee’s version of the defense bill, which it passed last week, does not address the issue.

The House bill, expected to be on the floor next week, also calls for another $49 billion in emergency funds for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The House and Senate Appropriations committees must act to actually provide the money, which would bring costs of the wars to more than $300 billion.

Hunter said the money was needed as a “bridge fund” from the Oct. 1 start of the next fiscal year until March 2006, when Congress would approve another emergency supplemental war bill.

Congress last week passed an $82 billion emergency bill largely for Iraq and Afghanistan.

Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

MSNBC POLL: Who should decide if women are assigned to direct ground combat roles?

As of 8:00 P.M. EST: * 20282 responses

Lawmakers - 23%

Pentagon officials - 77%

[Livyjr]

If you think on it, jeffmoskin, there is always a move on to quash and suppress "free dialogue" between citizens in times of repression and tyranny, especially up here in the alleged "THUG-O-CRACY" of New York State!

"Public records policy changed - Court orders agency to stop prescreening information requests"

By MICHAEL GORMLEY, Associated Press
First published: Friday, May 20, 2005

ALBANY -- A court has ordered a state agency to end its 30-year practice of allowing the subjects of Freedom of Information Law requests to help decide what public records should be released.

The state Racing and Wagering Board's policy of allowing entities such as the New York Racing Association to prescreen requests made under the state's FOI law dates back to as early as 1975.

That's the era in which FOI laws were created amid post-Watergate measures to force greater access and oversight by the public of government and the industries it regulates.

The Racing and Wagering Board repealed the rule Wednesday, effective in coming weeks, said board Assistant Counsel Mark Stuart.

But he said the board stopped the prescreening last year after a Supreme Court judge struck the practice down.

In that case, the Daily Racing Form newspaper sought records in 2002 under FOIL regarding Catskill Regional Off-Track Betting Corp., a public agency.

The case involved rigged bets placed by three fraternity brothers on Catskill OTB telephone accounts that resulted in a fraudulent winning ticket on a $3.1 million Pick Six bet, according to the court decision dated Oct. 31, 2003.

Stuart had previously said the case involved the New York Racing Association.

The news organization sought board members' names, executive salaries, annual reports, contracts and any reports of criminal or regulatory investigations as well as other financial data, according to the court decision.

The board turned the request over to Catskill OTB, effectively tipping New York's horse racing overseer to the newspaper's investigation.

end quotes

THE ART OF THE COVER-UP, IN ACTION!

Which triggers this question:

CAN CORRUPTION IN GOVERNMENT HERE IN OUR AMERICA EXIST WITHOUT THE CONNIVANCE OF UNPRINCIPLED, UNREGULATED, AMORAL LAWYERS TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THAT CORRUPTION BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, INCLUDING VIOLATING THE LAW, LYING, BURYING EVIDENCE, AND REPRESSING CITIZENS?

As always, America, that choice is yours!

So!

Consider your answer well, as once the choice is made, it is not so easy to go back and un-make it, just as once rung, a bell can never be un-rung, to make the sound go away!

[Livyjr]

"Public records policy changed - Court orders agency to stop prescreening information requests" 
 
By MICHAEL GORMLEY, Associated Press
First published: Friday, May 20, 2005

ALBANY -- A court has ordered a state agency to end its 30-year practice of allowing the subjects of Freedom of Information Law requests to help decide what public records should be released.

The state Racing and Wagering Board's policy of allowing entities such as the New York Racing Association to prescreen requests made under the state's FOI law dates back to as early as 1975.

That's the era in which FOI laws were created amid post-Watergate measures to force greater access and oversight by the public of government and the industries it regulates.

end quotes

THE ART OF THE COVER-UP, IN ACTION!

Which triggers this question:

CAN CORRUPTION IN GOVERNMENT HERE IN OUR AMERICA EXIST WITHOUT THE CONNIVANCE OF UNPRINCIPLED, UNREGULATED, AMORAL LAWYERS TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THAT CORRUPTION BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, INCLUDING VIOLATING THE LAW, LYING, BURYING EVIDENCE, AND REPRESSING CITIZENS?

What a time to be an American citizen!

And I mean that sincerely!

Of course, every day of my life, it has been good to be an American, but it is "especial" to me today, PRECISELY BECAUSE OF WHAT THIS INTERNET FORUM HAS GIVEN US OLDER AMERICANS AS A CITIZENSHIP TOOL UNPARALLED AND UNRIVALED IN MY LIFETIME of almost sixty years!

Never have we citizens had so much truly democratic "citizenship power" as we do in here, and to me, a disabled veteran who otherwise would have little contact with OUR America because of the limiting nature of being an older disabled veteran, which is to say, a person who doesn't travel well, this is like a literal miracle in here, where we can each and every one of us say what being an American really does mean to him, or her, because in here, we are all equal, regardless of the efforts of this or that special interest group out there in the actual world to have it be otherwise!

And what a thing that is!

And here, not to knock younger Americans, but I just don't think they can quite appreciate my views on this as an older American, because in their lifetimes, THIS HAS ALWAYS JUST "BEEN THERE", and so, cannot be appreciated for all the years that it was not "just there", which left people like me simply out in the cold, mute, without a voice, because there was no way to communicate that voice, if you were just an ordinary American like me!

Who would have believed this WOULD ACTUALLY BE HAPPENING, when I was young, and seriously so!

We had no telephone when I was young.

If you wanted to talk to someone, well, you had to go out and find them, and then have your chat, unless you had a loud voice, and so could yell down to someone in town without actually having to travel, as I did, to get there first!

And I never learned how to type!

What for?

We had no typewriter!

Couldn't afford one in the first place, and if you did have one, out in the country as we were, what would you do with it?

Type a letter to your neighbor?

And so, just last year, in fact, I had to learn how to do a whole lot of new things, and when you are older, well, for me, anyway, it is intimidating.

After one of my first posts on the John Kerry forum, which took me a while, several months, in fact, to figure out how to use, which is to say, leave a post on an existing thread, someone told me that I should start a thread, and I had no idea what they were talking about, since it is not to me intuitively obvious what a thread really is, or was, at least then!

And so, to me, this is quite a thing in here, and I just wanted to say that, because it is so, and because it was on my mind.

[Livyjr]

And were it not for the miracle of this internet forum, I don't think it would be at all possible to appreciate just how big this nation of OURS really is, and yet, for all of that distance that separates us, such as myself and jeffmoskin, who are some 3,300 miles distant from each other, or Mr. A.B. and myself, who are at least a good day's drive separate from each other in distance, not to mention generations apart, how alike in many senses we really are, even though, for example, Mr. A.B. is of middle-eastern descent, and I am not!

In here, all of that simply dissolves!

In here, we are simply words on a piece of paper, and anyone who wishes can read those words!

Everybody else is completely free to walk right on by, completely and totally unmolested!

If Plato was around today, I have to wonder at what he would make of this in here, and whether he would see some of his ideal REPUBLIC in here, as I see mine!

And what a conversation that would be!

Or Thomas Jefferson, who thought there should be a REVOLUTION in OUR America every twenty years!

I have to think that old Tom Jefferson would be quite excited by this very internet forum as would James Madison, and what a conversation we could have with them on this subject of citizenship, here in OUR America, that I find so very interesting, today, and every day of my own life, here in OUR America, where my own ideas and beliefs are shaped so much by people like Jefferson and Madison, dead and gone these last hundred and more years ago now, BUT SO ALIVE IN HERE IN SPIRIT TODAY, thanks to this internet forum!

AND SO ......

[Livyjr]

In the meantime, while we are waiting on Plato, and Jemmy Madison, and old Tom Jefferson, what is going on out there in the world?

What especially is this over there in Putin's Russia?

Some kind of American CIA plot, or what?

Or is this going to be blamed on those Muslim separatists down there in Uzbekistan that Bush-buddy Karimov allegedly machine-gunned down here recently?

Stay tuned and see:

"Russian villagers baffled by missing lake - 'I was thinking, well, America has finally got to us,' one woman says"

Updated: 9:57 a.m. ET May 20, 2005

MOSCOW - A Russian village was left baffled on Thursday after its lake disappeared overnight.

NTV television showed pictures of a giant muddy hole bathed in summer sun, while fishermen from the village of Bolotnikovo looked on disconsolately.

“It is very dangerous."

"If a person had been in this disaster, he would have had almost no chance of survival."

"The trees flew downwards, under the ground,” said Dmitry Zaitsev, a local Emergencies Ministry official interviewed by the channel.

Officials in Nizhegorodskaya region, on the Volga river east of Moscow, said water in the lake might have been sucked down into an underground water-course or cave system, but some villagers had more sinister explanations.

“I am thinking, well, America has finally got to us,” said one old woman, as she sat on the ground outside her house.

end quotes

Well, jeffmoskin, think it was those Muslims down there in Uzbekistan that did this, took that lake over there in Russia, just like that, and overnight to boot?

Or was it maybe a SMERSH/BUGGER coalition with al-Qaida, and al-Zarqawi, and that rebel group that usually hangs out there by the dog star, Sirius, in an attempt to make George W. Bush look weak and ineffectual as President of all the world, and the sun, moon and stars, to boot?

Some serious "hi-tech" stuff in play, here, either way, is what it looks like to me, maybe one of those anti-gravity reverser things Navy intelligence is rumored to be working on where all those trees just flew downwards the way that Russian guy said they did, above here.

Kind of like a reverse nu-clar explosion, if you ask me!

Ahhhh!

Iran!

They're the culprit, I bet!

But of course, well, there are the North Koreans as well, and so ......

[Livyjr]

In the meantime, while we are waiting on Plato, and Jemmy Madison, and old Tom Jefferson, what is going on out there in the world?

What especially is this over there in Putin's Russia?

Some kind of American CIA plot, or what?

Or is this going to be blamed on those Muslim separatists down there in Uzbekistan that Bush-buddy Karimov allegedly machine-gunned down here recently?

Stay tuned and see:

"Russian villagers baffled by missing lake - 'I was thinking, well, America has finally got to us,' one woman says"

Updated: 9:57 a.m. ET May 20, 2005

MOSCOW - A Russian village was left baffled on Thursday after its lake disappeared overnight.

NTV television showed pictures of a giant muddy hole bathed in summer sun, while fishermen from the village of Bolotnikovo looked on disconsolately.

Officials in Nizhegorodskaya region, on the Volga river east of Moscow, said water in the lake might have been sucked down into an underground water-course or cave system, but some villagers had more sinister explanations.

“I am thinking, well, America has finally got to us,” said one old woman, as she sat on the ground outside her house.

And winging our way back to OUR America after that brief stop over there in Putin's Russia, where someone has just stolen a lake, which George W. Bush appears to be getting the blame for, right now, anyway, what is going on here in Bush-buddy George Pataki's "homeland"?

"Jets stadium in Manhattan: Boon or boondoggle for state - Massive infusion of public funding raises questions about failed promises"

By JAMES M. ODATO, Capitol bureau, Albany, New York Times Union
First published: Sunday, May 15, 2005

ALBANY -- One thing's for sure, Gov. George Pataki and New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg are thinking big.

Their plan to put up $600 million in public funds to the New York Jets for a $2 billion Manhattan football stadium would be a new high in public sports facility subsidies.

And it comes with giant headaches -- major critics, multiple lawsuits and a reluctant public.

The two Republican leaders are staking much political capital on the idea, too, despite polls showing New York residents statewide dislike the idea.

The mayor and governor say the project would bring the Jets back from New Jersey to where they belong -- the Big Apple.

Also, the stadium would be integrated with the adjacent and expanding Javits Center to draw dozens of large conventions to Manhattan, creating thousands of jobs and hundreds of millions in revenue, they say.

Their proposal triggers a classic public policy question about taxpayer funding of sports facilities.

Polls show New Yorkers question the stadium project, including people like upstate resident Stephen Ten Eyck, 65, a retired commercial cleaner from Altamont who has been following the issue.

"What are we supposed to get out of this stadium?" asks Ten Eyck,

"It sounds like a great boondoggle for Manhattan."

Indeed, "boondoggle" is used a lot by critics, including Capital Region Assemblymen Ronald Canestrari, D-Cohoes, and Paul Tonko, D-Amsterdam.

"This is a project that the local community does not want, the local city does not want, the voting population of the state does not want and would waste hundreds of millions of state funding," Canestrari said.

Pataki, who faces a Legislature deeply divided on the issue, sees the project as worth the investment.

His budget staff projects the state would recoup its $300 million share five years after the stadium opens and take in $1 billion in taxes and other revenues over 30 years.

Pataki and Bloomberg are joined by Jets owner, Johnson & Johnson heir Robert Wood "Woody" Johnson IV, in saying the bonuses could be even more far-reaching.

The proposed stadium/convention center above the West Side Rail Yards, they say, could draw world-class events, including the 2010 NFL Super Bowl, and enhance New York City's bid for the 2012 Summer Olympics.

The International Olympic Committee is supposed to decide on a site July 6.

A vote of the state Public Authorities Control Board, scheduled for this Wednesday, could decide the matter.

But it appears unlikely the stadium issue will be on the agenda until later this summer because Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno and Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, who have members on the panel, have already rejected Pataki's attempt to fund the project in this year's budget, legislators and Pataki's aides say.

Heavy lobbying on both sides of the issue is pumping millions into the pockets of Albany lobbyists and ad firms.

Jets stars, including Joe Namath, have met with lawmakers.

A big pro-stadium rally is planned for Tuesday involving several unions and possibly Jets players.

By committing the $600 million to Jets owner Johnson, a billionaire who bought the team for $635 million in 2000 and is now willing to spend at least $1.4 billion for the new stadium, the state and city could become the biggest underwriter of a sports facility in history.

But the public cost may be higher.

Opponents, chiefly Cablevision, which is suing the state to protect its Madison Square Garden property, count another $450 million worth of debt service on the city's $300 million share, which would be financed with in-lieu-of-tax payments from the Jets.

They also count $100 million in tunnels connecting the stadium to the Javits Center.

Silver says the public subsidy goes further because of the real estate discount the Jets would get.

The Pataki-controlled Metropolitan Transit Authority accepted the Jets offer of about $250 million to build over MTA rail yards, well below Cablevision's $400 million bid for a project to create housing.

The MTA's appraiser valued the "air rights" at $923.4 million.

Bruno could force the price tag higher if he insists -- as he typically does -- on a $300 million quid-pro-quo for upstate.

"Whatever we do in the city, there ought to be equality, there ought to be balance," Bruno said.

Bruno and Silver want to see what happens with lawsuits by a group representing transit consumers challenging the MTA's plan to sell off a public asset so hastily.

"This would never fly in the private sector," said Sen. Eric Schneiderman, D-Manhattan, representing the New York Public Interest Research Group's Straphanger's Campaign on the suit.

"The only way the Jets can make it work is from public subsidies and virtually stealing the asset," he said.

Silver's Democratic majority conference is divided over the project.

Many New York City black and Hispanic members strongly favor it, citing high minority unemployment in the city.

Jets President Jay Cross and Bloomberg say the project will result in about 18,000 construction jobs and 6,900 permanent jobs.

Pataki says the stadium will spur hotel and tourism business.

Cross said the city "will finally have a first-class midsize convention center," and that the site might be used 15 to 20 days a year for sports and another one-third of the year for conventions, trade shows and expositions.

Key Manhattan lawmakers, including those on the West Side, deplore the plan, saying it will ruin city life, jam traffic and be a negative for conventions.

"This is a serious public works issue that could cost New York taxpayers over $1 billion," said Assemblyman Richard Gottfried, D-Manhattan.

Cablevision's plan makes more sense, he said, and would lead to more jobs because residential buildings would be filled with people -- "not a hollow building."

Gottfried also called Pataki's plan to find ways to funnel $300 million in state money into the project with or without the Legislature's consent "an end-run around the Legislature ... taking money under the table from an undefined list of other programs -- money that would have gone to some other community."

Among the skeptics of the Jets project is Andrew Zimbalist, a Smith College economics professor who has written about the economic impact of sports stadiums.

"The notion that this is a good economic investment is a real stretch of the imagination," Zimbalist said.

He also dislikes the quick bidding process and the open understanding that Bloomberg would consider competition hostile.

He said a residential development at the site seems a better idea.

Economic development officials, however, applaud the Jets concept.

"If you're going to be a major league city, you need to have a major league facility," said Brian McMahon, executive director of the New York State Economic Development Council, who adds that New Jersey has been "eating our lunch."

"Long-term, I think this facility would be a net revenue generator for the city and the state," McMahon said.

Veteran consumer activist Ralph Nader, who opposes what he calls "corporate welfare" for "fat cat" owners of sports teams, doubts the stadium will get built.

"It's never going to make it -- too many interest groups trying to stop it," Nader said.

end quotes

SO?

By committing the $600 million to Jets owner Johnson, a billionaire who bought the team for $635 million in 2000 and is now willing to spend at least $1.4 billion for the new stadium, the state and city could become the biggest underwriter of a sports facility in history.

Hhhhmmm!

This Jets guy here, this Johnson, he is a BILLIONAIRE, is that right?

SO?

What's he need the state money for then?

Got his own, don't he?

Well, then, like the rest of us here in this state, that's just what he should be spending, if he wants this thing so badly, his own money!

Or try a "dollar and a dream", as the New York Lottery advertises!

And who knows, he just might get lucky!

Until then, however .....

[jeffmoskin]

Well, jeffmoskin, think it was those Muslims down there in Uzbekistan that did this, took that lake over there in Russia, just like that, and overnight to boot?

Or was it maybe a SMERSH/BUGGER coalition with al-Qaida, and al-Zarqawi, and that rebel group that usually hangs out there by the dog star, Sirius, in an attempt to make George W. Bush look weak and ineffectual as President of all the world, and the sun, moon and stars, to boot?

Some serious "hi-tech" stuff in play, here, either way, is what it looks like to me, maybe one of those anti-gravity reverser things Navy intelligence is rumored to be working on where all those trees just flew downwards the way that Russian guy said they did, above here.

Kind of like a reverse nu-clar explosion, if you ask me!

Ahhhh!

Iran!

They're the culprit, I bet!

But of course, well, there are the North Koreans as well, and so ......

Definitely the work of TAY-RISTS.

No doubt about it.

AnD we will bring them to Justice.

Or bring justice to them.

You''re either with US, or you're with the TAY-RISTS.

[Livyjr]

What I think would be a real good investment for OUR tax dollars would be to come up with a nation-wide system of voting, here in OUR America, that has some integrity to it, so that no more of OUR elections can possibly be hijacked!

"Lawmakers clash over voting system decision - With millions in federal funding at stake, Senate Democrats urge statewide use of one machine"

By ELIZABETH BENJAMIN, Capitol bureau, Albany, New York Times Union
First published: Tuesday, May 17, 2005

ALBANY -- Senate Democrats on Monday called for the adoption of a single voting machine for statewide use, saying a conceptual agreement that would allow county officials to make their own choices could result in electoral chaos.

"New York cannot go down that road of making this process any more complicated or difficult," said Senate Minority Leader David Paterson, D-Harlem.

Among the issues lawmakers are grappling with while trying to meet requirements of the federal 2002 Help America Vote Act, or HAVA, is what kind of new electronic machines to buy.

HAVA provides millions of dollars to do so, but if deadlines are missed, the money will not be forthcoming.

The new machines must be in place for the fall 2006 elections.

The Senate minority wants "optical scan" machines, which count paper ballots marked with a pencil.

Paterson said he believes these machines are more affordable, simpler to use and provide an easily accessible paper trail.

The Senate Democrats' call for a unified voting system comes as a bipartisan legislative committee has agreed to do just the opposite.

The 10-member committee recently said the state Board of Elections will certify several machines that meet a set of yet-unknown standards and let county elections officials pick which ones they want.

Opponents say letting the counties choose will create a patchwork voting system that could further prolong recounts in close races.

Another worry is that local elections commissioners may be unduly pressured by voting machine companies and their lobbyists.

The voting machine companies that have been lobbying hardest in New York -- Liberty Election Systems, Sequoia Voting Systems, and Electronic Systems and Software -- are pushing for direct recording electronic machines, which resemble the current machines but use a button rather than a lever.

Sequoia and ES&S also manufacture optical scan machines; Liberty does not.

DRE supporters say paper for optical scan machines would be costly, making up for the fact that the initial cost of a DRE is $8,000 to $12,000, compared with about half that for an optical scan.

They also maintain DREs are hacker-proof and provide a paper trail that is just as easy to recount as that of an optical scan machine.

[Livyjr]

Definitely the work of TAY-RISTS.

No doubt about it.

And we will bring them to Justice.

Or bring justice to them.

You''re either with US, or you're with the TAY-RISTS.

Right on, jeffmoskin!

SO?

Do you think George W. Bush ought to nuke the whole crowd of them, or just them Muslims Bush-buddy Karimov wants to machine-gun to death down there in the THUG-O-CRACY of Uzbekistan?

I've heard that bunch from BUGGER are a real nasty crowd, in their own right, and as to SMERSH, well, everybody knows about them, and so ....

[Livyjr]

And winging our way back to OUR America after that brief stop over there in Putin's Russia, where someone has just stolen a lake, which George W. Bush appears to be getting the blame for, right now, anyway, what is going on here in Bush-buddy George Pataki's "homeland"?

"Jets stadium in Manhattan: Boon or boondoggle for state - Massive infusion of public funding raises questions about failed promises" 
 
By JAMES M. ODATO, Capitol bureau, Albany, New York Times Union
First published: Sunday, May 15, 2005

ALBANY -- One thing's for sure, Gov. George Pataki and New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg are thinking big.

Their plan to put up $600 million in public funds to the New York Jets for a $2 billion Manhattan football stadium would be a new high in public sports facility subsidies.

Their proposal triggers a classic public policy question about taxpayer funding of sports facilities.

Polls show New Yorkers question the stadium project, including people like upstate resident Stephen Ten Eyck, 65, a retired commercial cleaner from Altamont who has been following the issue.

"What are we supposed to get out of this stadium?" asks Ten Eyck,

"It sounds like a great boondoggle for Manhattan."

Indeed, "boondoggle" is used a lot by critics, including Capital Region Assemblymen Ronald Canestrari, D-Cohoes, and Paul Tonko, D-Amsterdam.

"This is a project that the local community does not want, the local city does not want, the voting population of the state does not want and would waste hundreds of millions of state funding," Canestrari said.

Pataki and Bloomberg are joined by Jets owner, Johnson & Johnson heir Robert Wood "Woody" Johnson IV, in saying the bonuses could be even more far-reaching.

A vote of the state Public Authorities Control Board, scheduled for this Wednesday, could decide the matter.

But it appears unlikely the stadium issue will be on the agenda until later this summer because Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno and Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, who have members on the panel, have already rejected Pataki's attempt to fund the project in this year's budget, legislators and Pataki's aides say.

Heavy lobbying on both sides of the issue is pumping millions into the pockets of Albany lobbyists and ad firms.possibly Jets players.

By committing the $600 million to Jets owner Johnson, a billionaire who bought the team for $635 million in 2000 and is now willing to spend at least $1.4 billion for the new stadium, the state and city could become the biggest underwriter of a sports facility in history.

"Bruno seeks open talks on stadium - Senate leader, Assembly's Silver call for details on taxpayer costs; Pataki wants vote next week"

By JAMES M. ODATO, Capitol bureau, Albany, New York Times Union
First published: Thursday, May 19, 2005

ALBANY -- Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno called Wednesday for a public forum on the proposed Manhattan stadium for the New York Jets, but Gov. George Pataki is instead setting up a "special meeting" for a vote on the project next Wednesday.

Bruno, who wants a one-month delay before making a judgment, said it's important first to get the facts on the entire Jets plan, including how much the $2 billion proposal will cost taxpayers.

"I'm hearing total commitment is close to $1 billion," Bruno said.

"I don't know what the hell it is."

"It's time to get it more in the open."

Pataki and Mayor Michael Bloomberg have called the project critical to New York City's bid for the 2012 Summer Olympics.

The International Olympic Committee names a host city on July 6.

Bruno said he wants a meeting with the mayor and governor so that he and Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver can get more information.

Bruno said the meeting could be like one of the open budget meetings led by Pataki this year with legislative leaders.

At a meeting of the Public Authorities Control Board on Wednesday, which rules on debt financing, Pataki's budget director, John Cape, announced a May 25 special session to deal with the Jets project.

He said Bloomberg administration officials will be present to help answer questions.

Bruno's call for postponement Tuesday had removed the Jets financing from the agenda of Wednesday's meeting of the PACB, whose voting members represent the governor, Bruno and Silver.

John McArdle, a spokesman for Bruno, said if the special meeting is held the Republican majority leader will likely attend.

Silver said he may ask for another postponement "until we get the answers" about financing and the proposed acquisition by the Jets of the project site.

Pataki said the project calls for $300 million in grants from New York City and the state.

The governor maintains the stadium would be good for the economy.

Silver, a Manhattan Democrat, said the $600 million public subsidy is only part of the taxpayers' cost.

Another $450 million borrowed by New York City would be repaid by in-lieu-of-tax payments by the Jets.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority accepted the Jets' $250 million bid for the right to build above the West Side Rail Yard, about a quarter of the value of the appraised value, Silver said.

Assemblyman Richard Gottfried, D-Manhattan, said lawmakers need to know who will operate the stadium and its convention business and whether the MTA is renting or selling the site.

[jeffmoskin]

DRE supporters say paper for optical scan machines would be costly, making up for the fact that the initial cost of a DRE is $8,000 to $12,000, compared with about half that for an optical scan.

They also maintain DREs are hacker-proof and provide a paper trail that is just as easy to recount as that of an optical scan machine.

DRE (Direct Recording Electronic) machines in Ohio put Bush in the White House.and should be BANNED.

Only machines that produce a paper record, verifiable by the voter at the time of voting, should be permitted.

There is not a single machine I would trust unless the voter could be sure that the box he touched on the screen produced an actual vote for HIS candidate.

Period.

How can cost be a factor when we are talking about the fundamental pillar of OUR democracy?

Our elections must never be stolen again.

Twice is enough.

[jeffmoskin]

Right on, jeffmoskin!

SO?

Do you think George W. Bush ought to nuke the whole crowd of them, or just them Muslims Bush-buddy Karimov wants to machine-gun to death down there in the THUG-O-CRACY of Uzbekistan?

I've heard that bunch from BUGGER are a real nasty crowd, in their own right, and as to SMERSH, well, everybody knows about them, and so ....

Not SMERSH - - -SPECTRE!

Bond-"Red wine with fish. Well, that should've told me something."

Donald Grant-"You may know the right wines, but you're the one on your knees. How does it feel, old man?"

Bond-"Old man? Is that what you chaps in SMERSH call each other?"

Grant-"SMERSH?"

Bond-"Of course, SPECTRE."

[Livyjr]

"Bruno seeks open talks on stadium - Senate leader, Assembly's Silver call for details on taxpayer costs; Pataki wants vote next week" 
 
By JAMES M. ODATO, Capitol bureau, Albany, New York Times Union
First published: Thursday, May 19, 2005

ALBANY -- Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno called Wednesday for a public forum on the proposed Manhattan stadium for the New York Jets, but Gov. George Pataki is instead setting up a "special meeting" for a vote on the project next Wednesday.

Bruno, who wants a one-month delay before making a judgment, said it's important first to get the facts on the entire Jets plan, including how much the $2 billion proposal will cost taxpayers.

"I'm hearing total commitment is close to $1 billion," Bruno said.

"I don't know what the hell it is."

"It's time to get it more in the open."

In the meantime ........

"Leaders get green light to dip into pork barrel"

By MICHAEL GORMLEY, Associated Press
First published: Thursday, May 19, 2005

ALBANY -- A panel appointed by the governor and legislative leaders quietly approved more than $440 million in borrowing Wednesday for projects the leaders will pick and New York's taxpayers will pay off over the next 30 years.

The borrowing includes $235 million for "various projects" to be determined by Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno and Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver and $209.5 million to be used at the discretion of Gov. George Pataki, according to board resolutions.

Typically, many of the projects are for local projects identified by lawmakers in this little-known version of "member items," derided by critics as pork-barrel spending.

The borrowing was approved by the state Public Authorities Control Board -- appointed by the three leaders.

There were no details on most of the projects, many of which haven't yet been chosen, and there was no public comment before the final approvals were made.

The borrowing was a last-minute addition to the agenda of the control board, which quickly approved it.

"This is backdoor borrowing," complained Barbara Bartoletti of the League of Women Voters.

"This is borrowing the voters don't get to actually approve and taxpayers still end up footing the bill ... it is being less than upfront with taxpayers."

"All PACB decisions are made behind closed doors and they come to these meetings and they are just (formally) approved," she said.

The funds approved Wednesday are in addition to hundreds of millions of dollars directed by individual lawmakers under traditional member items.

end quotes

What a mockery!

Two hundred some years since independence from England and corrupt ROYAL government in New York and what have we got?

Just some more corrupt ROYAL government!

No accountability then, none today!

Go figure, because I sure can't!

[Livyjr]

Not SMERSH - - -SPECTRE!

Well, jeffmoskin, you might be right, there, anyway, about SMERSH really being just a front for SPECTRE!

But it's that BUGGER crowd that really worries me!

From what I hear, they're meaner than a black snake, which is maybe why Donald Rumsfeld was allegedly using them as his stooges over there in that abu Ghraib prison in Iraq!

Quite a crowd, indeed, eh?