Life in OUR America, Volume 2, The Livyjr Files Options

[jeffmoskin]

That's what bothers me about this country. It seems to me that, because of TELEVISION, the not-so-very-smart candidate who looks like "one of us" (I'm talking about a certain dim-witted Texan now) can convince 50 percent of the electorate (and I'm talking give or take 3.5 million) to vote for him.

Doesn't speak well for OUR country.

It was James Madison who said, “It is universally admitted that a well-instructed people alone can be permanently a free people.”

How did we get to where we are today?

And how do we escape?

Yes, how did we get to where we are today? It was only five years ago when the most important questions being asked in OUR America were:

1. What should we do with the budget surplus?

2. Where is Chandra Levy? Did Gary Condit kill her?

3. What happened to the money I invested in dot com stocks?

4. How does an idiot like George W. Bush expect to get elected?

To quote Bob Herbert from the NY Times,

"Sixty years after his death we should be raising a toast to F.D.R. and his progressive ideas. And we should take that opportunity to ask: How in the world did we allow ourselves to get from there to here?"

[Livyjr]

Yes, how did we get to where we are today?

As I continue to study that period of time that was this nation's founding period, which, arguably, was some thirty years in length, give or take, depending on one's view of the history of those times, I came across last night in that wonderful book Miracle at Philadelphia by Catherine Drinker Bowen, these questions which were raised by "federalists" in 1787, or early 1788, when what was to be the United States Constitution, ultimately, was still being debated in the various state's ratifying conventions:

"Always it seemed easy for some hardheaded Federalist to cut down his opponent with a few commonsense suggestions."

"Why - for instance - should we fear our congressmen?"

"Are they not our own creatures, elected by ourselves?"

"Why must it be assumed that Congress will be more corrupt than the voters who are responsible for sending them to govern?"

"And will not the president as well as the much-dreaded senators be returned to the people, to live among their neighbors and bear their reproaches, SHOULD THEY MISCONDUCT THEMSELVES IN OFFICE?"

end quotes

Republican government only can work, if the people themselves work at "government", and how a common person works at "government", in my estimation, is by not being corrupt, him or herself, and by then refusing representation by corruption, which is all that we seem to have today, in OUR America.

The whole place, it seems, from coast to coast, and I don't think these Federalists, like Madison, and George Washington, could ever have conceived such a thing could ever be possible!

And so, here we are!

And the Republic?

Who even knows anymore, and that is a fact!

And that starts with George W. Bush!

But the mess, in the end, belongs to us, THE PEOPLE!

A weak, inept, craven, cowardly representative government has to be representative of a weak, inept, craven, cowardly people, and that is what the fears of the "anti-federalists" of that time really were all about, and in the end, I think they had the better view of things, such as Mr. Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Ratifying Convention:

"Whither is the spirit of America gone?"

"Whither is the genius of America fled?"

"We drew the spirit of liberty from our British ancestors!"

"But now, Sir, the American spirit, assisted by the ropes and chains of consolidation, is about to convert this country into a powerful and mighty empire."

"There will be no checks, no real balances, in this government!"

"What can avail your specious, imaginary balances, your rope-dancing, chain-rattling, ridiculous ideal checks and balances!"

end quotes

Methinks even way back then, Mr. Patrick Henry foresaw the rise of what is now the REPUBLICAN party, here in OUR America, with its Frists, and DeLays, and especially, its George W. Bush, and Dick Cheney, and he shuddered at that vision, and rightly so, methinks, anyway, for now, we are here, and Patrick Henry?

Well, more right than wrong to me, at least, and Jemmy Madison?

Well, his heart was in the right place, in his thoughts about the integrity of the American people, but unfortunately, his brand of American people have been replaced by the new breed that Patrick Henry saw coming, all those years ago!

And here we are!

[Livyjr]

And while we are on the subject of "evolution", and the American people, and Karl Rove, of course, who Patrick Henry saw coming as a threat to OUR America, all those years ago, we have this, just in "off the wire":

"US National Academies fights evolution controversy"

Sat Jun 11, 5:48 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The National Academies, the flagship of U.S. science, said on Friday it had set up a Web site to battle attempts to portray evolution as mere speculation about how life developed on Earth.

The Web site, http://nationalacademies.org/evolution/ , carries links to various reports on evolution, which some U.S. religious groups want to be taught in schools only if their own views of a divine creator get equal credence.

"The theory of evolution is one of science's most robust theories, and the National Academies have long supported the position that evolution be taught as a central element in any science education program," the Academies said in a statement.

"Over the past several years, however, there has been a growing movement around the country to include non-scientifically based 'alternatives' in science courses," it added.

"Currently there are challenges to the teaching of evolution in some 40 states or local school districts."

Some of these are detailed by the National Center for Science Education, a non-profit organization dedicated to keeping evolution in public school education, at its Web site, http://ncseweb.org.

The National Academies is an independent organization that routinely provides guidance on scientific, medical and engineering questions to the federal government and other groups that may ask them.

This post has been edited by Livyjr: Jun 12 2005, 06:12 AM

[Livyjr]

And on another note, since we are talking about "evolution" in here, and Karl Rove's "theory" that the earth is only five thousand years old .....

"Europe's oldest civilisation unearthed: report"

Sat Jun 11, 6:35 PM ET

LONDON (AFP) - Europe's oldest civilisation has reportedly been discovered by archaelogists across the continent.

More than 150 large temples, constructed between 4800 BC and 4600 BC, have been unearthed in fields and cities in Germany, Austria and Slovakia, predating the pyramids in Egypt by some 2,000 years, The Independent newspaper revealed.

The network of temples, made of earth and wood, were constructed by a religious people whose economy appears to have been based on livestock farming, The Independent reported.

Excavations have taken place over the past three years but the discovery is so new that the civilisation has not yet been named.

The most complex centre discovered so far, beneath the city of Dresden in Saxony, eastern Germany, comprises a temple surrounded by four ditches, three earthen banks and two palisades.

"Our excavations have revealed the degree of monumental vision and sophistication used by these early farming communities to create Europe's first truly large scale earthwork complexes," said Harald Staeuble, from the Saxony state government's heritage department.

The temples, up to 150 metres (164 yards) in diameter, were made by a people who lived in long houses and villages, the newspaper said.

Stone, bone, and wooden tools have been unearthed, along with ceramic figures of people and animals.

A village at Aythra, near Leipzig in eastern Germany, was home to some 300 people living in up to 20 large buildings around the temple.

end quotes

Hhhhmmmm!

Dum-de-dum, let's see here, now, these scientific fellows, who, of course, don't know the earth is only 5,000 years old, well, they have this view, an "ANTI-ROVITE" view, it can be said, that there were people living in what is now OLD EUROPE, according to Cheney and Rumsfeld, who are ROVITES, themselves; these scientific boys have people living in OLD EUROPE some 6,800 hundred years ago, WHICH, OF COURSE, is simply impossible!

The earth had not been created yet, if it is only 5,000 years old, and it is, trust me, Karl Rove says so, and he is the man in charge of everything, and so, he would have to know everything, to be in charge of everything; and so these scientific fellows have to be dead wrong, unless, of course, they are employing that "new math" here, and then, who can tell anything at all, but as a loyal American, myself, well, I have to believe Karl Rove, don't I?

Don't I?

SO?

Why are these scientists lying to us, then?

Oh, I'm so scared!

I hope George W. Bush has one of his White House lawyers edit this report, and quickly, to make it consistent with the reality that there is NO GLOBAL WARMING, and that the earth is only 5,000 years old, and that these temples that were found, well, these ancient peoples knew of the coming of George W. Bush, even back then, and they just wanted him to know that he was revered by them, just in case he was having a bad hair day, and was looking for someone to NUKE!

"Not us" those temples said!

"WE LOVE YOU, GEORGE!"

Yeah, right!

And Karl Rove told me so, and so, it must be right, since it is Karl Rove that we are talking about here, and not just some crack-pot who thinks that the world is only 5,000 years old!

[Livyjr]

And since we are already off on "flights of fancy" in here this morning, well, we might as well go to Iraq, which, less than 5,000 years ago, was a place known as Mesopotamia, if you believe any of that scientific crap, anyway .......

"Iraq Struggles to Draft New Constitution"

By SAMEER N. YACOUB, Associated Press Writer

1 hour, 9 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqi efforts to draft a new constitution are weakened by the lack of political experience within the minority Sunni Arab community, the prime minister's spokesman said Sunday.

Laith Kuba said the process to draw up Iraq's first post-Saddam Hussein constitution will be hindered if any group is "marginalized."

Sunni Arabs, who enjoyed great influence when their patron Saddam ruled Iraq, have fallen from power and are calling for a greater say within a parliamentary committee that is drawing up a constitution.

Their leaders claim they have lost out to Iraq's majority Shiite community and the U.S.-allied Kurds, who swept to power in historic Jan. 30 national elections.

Iraq's Kurdish community has enjoyed relative autonomy in the northern Kurdistan region since the early 1990s, under the protection of a U.S.-controlled no-fly zone barring Saddam's warplanes from flying over the area.

The region has also established its own parliament-like assembly to control affairs.

Kuba said this has given Iraqi Kurds greater political experience than Sunni Arabs, which could be a disadvantage for the latter in trying to have a bigger say in the country's future.

"The most powerful (force in drafting the constitution) might be the Kurdish parties because they have had experience in this field, but the weakest side might be the Sunnis because it is the first time they entered true negotiations," Kuba said during a press conference.

He did not explain why he thought the Shiite-led government of Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari had the necessary experience.

Although Shiites make up an estimated 60 percent of the population, they were suppressed under Saddam's secular Sunni-dominated regime.

"I believe this might be the weak point in the constitutional process, which is Sunni parties might lack experience," he said.

President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd, said during the week that Sunnis may receive an additional 20 to 25 seats on the 55-member constitutional committee, which currently includes just two Sunni Arabs.

But there is widespread reluctance by many Shiite Muslim politicians to grant Sunnis more than 14 seats — the same number as Kurds.

Sunni alienation from the political process is seen as a driving force behind Iraq's raging insurgency, which has killed more than 930 people since the country's new Shiite-dominated government was announced April 28.

"It doesn't serve the interest of any side if any other party is marginalized," Kuba said.

end quotes

He did not explain why he thought the Shiite-led government of Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari had the necessary experience?

That's easy - THEY HAVE THE GUNS, AND THE WILL TO KILL ANYTHING AND EVERYONE IN HIS PATH, OF GEORGE W. BUSH, WHO HIMSELF HAS NO EXPERIENCE OF TRUE DEMOCRACY, ON THEIR SIDE, AND WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED THAN THAT?

After all, isn't what democracy is going to be really dictated to everyone else by the man with the biggest gun?

That's what I get out of all of this anyway .........

Shoot first, and to hell with asking any questions at all, either before, or after ....

Kill them all, and let Allah sort them out, right, Don, as long as though precious oil wells are preserved in the process?

[Abu Beacon]

And on another note, since we are talking about "evolution" in here, and Karl Rove's "theory" that the earth is only five thousand years old .....

The earth had not been created yet, if it is only 5,000 years old, and it is, trust me, Karl Rove says so, and he is the man in charge of everything, and so, he would have to know everything, to be in charge of everything; and so these scientific fellows have to be dead wrong, unless, of course, they are employing that "new math" here, and then, who can tell anything at all, but as a loyal American, myself, well, I have to believe Karl Rove, don't I?


And Karl Rove told me so, and so, it must be right, since it is Karl Rove that we are talking about here, and not just some crack-pot who thinks that the world is only 5,000 years old!

ABSOLUTELY!! It must be right. Just to make sure though, I'm going to ask Mr. Rumsfeld.

And if I want a third opinion, I'm going all the way to the top. I'll ask Mr. Cheney!

And BTW, Mr. Livyjr, in case you haven't seen this column in the N.Y. Times I am sending it along.

What I am doing nowadays, is sending articles that tell the truth along to my Bush loving acquaintances. They can decide to love them or leave them. I do not believe there is any point in only sending these truths to those of us who already know them to be true.

Keep cool these days, Livy jr.

A.B.

[Livyjr]

And since we are already off on "flights of fancy" in here this morning, well, we might as well go to Iraq, which, less than 5,000 years ago, was a place known as Mesopotamia, if you believe any of that scientific crap, anyway .......

"Iraq Struggles to Draft New Constitution"

By SAMEER N. YACOUB, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqi efforts to draft a new constitution are weakened by the lack of political experience within the minority Sunni Arab community, the prime minister's spokesman said Sunday.

He did not explain why he thought the Shiite-led government of Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari had the necessary experience.

end quotes

He did not explain why he thought the Shiite-led government of Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari had the necessary experience?

That's easy - THEY HAVE THE GUNS, AND THE WILL TO KILL ANYTHING AND EVERYONE IN HIS PATH, OF GEORGE W. BUSH, WHO HIMSELF HAS NO EXPERIENCE OF TRUE DEMOCRACY, ON THEIR SIDE, AND WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED THAN THAT?

After all, isn't what democracy is going to be really dictated to everyone else by the man with the biggest gun?

That's what I get out of all of this anyway .........

Shoot first, and to hell with asking any questions at all, either before, or after ....

Kill them all, and let Allah sort them out, right, Don, as long as though precious oil wells are preserved in the process?

And speaking of "flights of fancy" and de-mockery, and guns, and the will to use them, on everything, like some berserk, out-of-control drunken cowboy just in off the Chisolm Trail after a long cattle drive, all liquored-up, and with a gun-belt full of un-spent bullets, just begging to be spent ......

"U.K. Memo Said to Question Postwar Plan"

1 hour, 45 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - A staff paper prepared for British Prime Minister Tony Blair eight months before the invasion of Iraq concluded that U.S. military officials were not planning adequately for a postwar occupation, The Washington Post reported.

"A post-war occupation of Iraq could lead to a protracted and costly nation-building exercise," authorities of the briefing memo wrote, according to the Post.

"As already made clear, the U.S. military plans are virtually silent on this point."

"Washington could look to us to share a disproportionate share of the burden."

The eight-page memo was written in advance of a July 23, 2002, meeting at Blair's Downing Street offices, the Post said in Sunday editions.

It said the memo and other internal British government documents were originally obtained by Michael Smith of the London Sunday Times and that excerpts made available to Post were confirmed as authentic by British sources who sought anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter.

The Post said the introduction to the memo — "Iraq: Conditions for Military Action" — said U.S. "military planning for action against Iraq is proceeding apace," but that "little thought" has been given to, among other things, "the aftermath and how to shape it."

The July 21 memo was produced by Blair's staff in preparation for a meeting with his national security team two days later that has become controversial since last month's disclosure of official notes summarizing the session.

According to those minutes — known as the Downing Street Memo — British officials who had just returned from Washington said the Bush administration believed war was inevitable and was determined to use intelligence about weapons of mass destruction to justify the ouster of Saddam Hussein.

Blair denied at a news conference with President Bush last week that intelligence was manipulated to justify the war.

end quotes

"Intelligence" was not manipulated!

It couldn't have been, because that crowd possessed no intelligence, then or now, and what you don't have, folks, well, how can you manipulate nothing?

PEOPLE were the only thing that was manipulated, and folks, that, of course, was US, the American people

They wanted the oil, they got the oil, simple as that!

Call theft "democracy on the move", and who on earth will ever know the difference?

Anybody, here in OUR America?

And so, they lied to everyone in a vain attempt to have us all be as stupid as they believe we are, and well ......

It worked!

[Livyjr]

ABSOLUTELY!!

It must be right.

Just to make sure though, I'm going to ask Mr. Rumsfeld.

And if I want a third opinion, I'm going all the way to the top.

I'll ask Mr. Cheney!

A.B.

Well, Mr. A.B., all I can say is that you sure are an inspiration to me to get a lttle older here, because I can see by your words of wisdom above here, that wisdom does come with age!

Yes, the man at the top is Dick Cheney, while in my relative youth and inexperience, of course, I am misled into thinking that it is really Karl Rove, but if I do get a little older, well, as you have pointed out, many times, eventually, it will become clear, to even me ......

[Livyjr]

And since we are now talking about "flights of fancy" in their more mundane guise as nothing but a pack of outrageous lies .......

"U.S. produces fewer terror convictions than officials claim - Justice Department overstating dragnet’s reach, analysis shows"

Sept. 11 plotter Zacarias Moussaoui is one of just 14 people on the Justice Department’s list of terror convictions to have clear links to al Qaeda, a Washington Post analysis shows.

By Dan Eggen and Julie Tate

Updated: 1:04 a.m. ET June 12, 2005

On Thursday, President Bush stepped to a lectern at the Ohio State Highway Patrol Academy in Columbus to urge renewal of the USA Patriot Act and to boast of the government's success in prosecuting terrorists.

Flanked by Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, Bush said that "federal terrorism investigations have resulted in charges against more than 400 suspects, and more than half of those charged have been convicted."

Those statistics have been used repeatedly by Bush and other administration officials, including Gonzales and his predecessor, John D. Ashcroft, to characterize the government's efforts against terrorism.

But the numbers are misleading at best.

Fewer convictions than advertised

An analysis of the Justice Department's own list of terrorism prosecutions by The Washington Post shows that 39 people — not 200, as officials have implied — were convicted of crimes related to terrorism or national security.

Most of the others were convicted of relatively minor crimes such as making false statements and violating immigration law — and had nothing to do with terrorism, the analysis shows.

For the entire list, the median sentence was just 11 months.

Taken as a whole, the data indicate that the government's effort to identify terrorists in the United States has been less successful than authorities have often suggested.

The statistics provide little support for the contention that authorities have discovered and prosecuted hundreds of terrorists here.

Except for a small number of well-known cases — such as truck driver Iyman Faris, who sought to take down the Brooklyn Bridge — few of those arrested appear to have been involved in active plots inside the United States.

Among all the people charged as a result of terrorism probes in the three years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, The Post found no demonstrated connection to terrorism or terrorist groups for 180 of them.

Just one in nine individuals on the list had an alleged connection to the al Qaeda terrorist network and only 14 people convicted of terrorism-related crimes — including Faris and convicted Sept. 11 plotter Zacarias Moussaoui — have clear links to the group.

Many more cases involve Colombian drug cartels, supporters of the Palestinian cause, Rwandan war criminals or others with no apparent ties to al Qaeda or its leader, Osama bin Laden.

Chance arrests

But a large number of people appear to have been swept into U.S. counterterrorism investigations by chance — through anonymous tips, suspicious circumstances or bad luck — and have remained classified as terrorism defendants years after being cleared of connections to extremist groups.

For example, the prosecution of 20 men, most of them Iraqis, in a Pennsylvania truck-licensing scam accounts for about 10 percent of individuals convicted — even though the entire group was publicly absolved of ties to terrorism in 2001.

"For so many of these cases, there seems to be much less substance to them than we first assume or have first been told," said Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert who heads the Washington office of Rand Corp., a think tank that conducts national security research.

"There's an inherent deterrent effect in cracking down on any illicit activity."

"But the challenge is not exaggerating what they were up to — not portraying them as super-terrorists when they're really the low end of the food chain."

Only a partial picture of campaign?

Justice Department officials say they have not sought to exaggerate the importance or suspected associations of those prosecuted in connection with terrorism probes, and they argue that the list provides only a partial view of their efforts.

Officials said all the individuals were first put on the list because of a suspected connection or allegation related to terrorism.

Last week, they also said that the department had tightened the requirements for including a case on the terrorism list.

Barry M. Sabin, chief of the department's counterterrorism section, said prosecutors frequently turn to lesser charges when they are not confident they can prove crimes such as committing or supporting terrorism.

Many defendants also have been prosecuted for relatively minor crimes in exchange for information that is not public but has proven valuable in other terrorism probes, he said.

"A person could not have been put on this list if there was not a concern about national security, at least initially," he said.

"Are all these people an ongoing threat presently?"

"Arguably not. . . ."

"We are not trying to overstate or understate what we're doing."

"You don't want to put language or a label on people that is inconsistent with what they have done."

The numbers

Since the Sept. 11 attacks, the Justice Department database has served as the key source of statistics on the status of terrorism investigations in the United States and has been cited frequently in official speeches and testimony to Congress.

The list obtained by The Post includes 361 cases defined as terrorism investigations by the department's criminal division from Sept. 11, 2001, through late September 2004.

Thirty-one entries could not be evaluated because they were sealed and blacked out.

(The list does not include about 40 cases filed since then that account for Bush's total of about 400).

The Post sought to update and correct data whenever possible, including noting convictions or sentences handed down within the past nine months.

The list of domestic prosecutions does not include terrorism suspects held at the Guantanamo Bay military prison or at secret locations around the globe.

Nor does it include many of the approximately 50 people the Justice Department has acknowledged detaining as "material witnesses," or three men held in a military prison in South Carolina, one of whom has been released.

The Post identified 180 cases in which no connection to al Qaeda or another terrorist group could be found in court records, official statements, the 9/11 commission report or news accounts.

Even some of the terrorism-related cases featured early allegations of terrorist connections that were later dropped.

Of the 142 individuals on the list linked to terrorist groups, 39 were convicted of crimes related to terrorism or national security.

More than a dozen defendants were acquitted or had their charges dismissed, including three Moroccan men in Detroit whose convictions were tossed out in September after the Justice Department admitted prosecutorial misconduct.

Minor crimes, short sentences

Not surprisingly, these minor crimes produced modest punishments.

The median sentence for all cases adjudicated, whether or not they were terrorism-related, was 11 months.

About three dozen other defendants were given probation or were deported.

The most common convictions were on charges of fraud, making false statements, passport violations and conspiracy.

Two life sentences have been handed down so far: to Richard Reid, the British drifter who was foiled by passengers in his attempt to blow up an aircraft over the Atlantic Ocean; and Masoud Khan, a Maryland man convicted of traveling to Pakistan and seeking to fight with the Taliban against U.S. forces.

Two others convicted of terrorism-related crimes face life sentences: Ahmed Abdel Sattar, an Egyptian-born postal worker convicted of conspiring to kill and kidnap in a foreign country; and Ali Timimi, a Northern Virginia spiritual leader convicted of encouraging others to attend terrorist camps.

(Timimi was indicted in late September and was not on the list obtained by The Post.)

Only 14 of those convicted of crimes related to terrorism or national security have clear links to bin Laden's network, most notably Moussaoui and Reid.

Others include Faris, an admitted member of al Qaeda who sought to sabotage the Brooklyn Bridge, and six Yemeni men from Lackawanna, N.Y., convicted of providing material support to terrorists by attending an al Qaeda training camp before Sept. 11.

In addition, Taliban fighter John Walker Lindh, who is most closely associated with Afghanistan's deposed government, trained at an al Qaeda camp.

‘Mission creep’

The patterns discovered by The Post are similar to findings in studies of Justice Department terrorism cases by New York University and Syracuse University, each of which examined more limited sets of data.

More than a third of the cases on the list arose from a post-Sept. 11 FBI dragnet, which resulted in the arrests of hundreds of Muslim immigrants for minor violations unrelated to the hijackings or terrorism.

"What we're seeing over time is the equivalent of mission creep: cases that would not be terrorism cases before Sept. 11 are swept onto the terrorism docket," said Juliette Kayyem, a former Clinton administration Justice official who heads the national security program at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government.

"The problem is that it's not good to cook the numbers. . . ."

"We have no accurate assessment of whether the war on terrorism is actually working."

Tracking al Qaeda

Before the Sept. 11 attacks, many veteran U.S. counterterrorism officials assumed that al Qaeda sleeper cells were hiding in the country, awaiting orders to launch attacks.

The strikes — carried out by 19 hijackers who arrived in the United States and trained here undetected — prompted an aggressive campaign by the Justice Department, the FBI and other agencies to identify al Qaeda operatives on U.S. soil.

The results from the Justice Department database, however, raise the possibility that the presence of al Qaeda operatives and sympathizers within the United States is either limited or largely undetected, many terrorism experts say.

"These kind of statistics show that we really don't know if they exist here in any significant way," said Martha Crenshaw of Wesleyan University in Connecticut, who has studied terrorism since the late 1960s.

"It's possible that they could have sleepers planted here for a long time and we could always be very surprised."

"But I'd say that's less likely compared with them trying to repeat a 9/11-style infiltration from the outside."

Other experts and government officials say the relatively small number of domestic terrorism prosecutions is partly the result of the administration's strategy to handle some of its most dangerous suspects — such as Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed — outside U.S. courts.

As a result, only a limited number of potentially significant cases have been pursued publicly in U.S. courts.

Feds using ‘prosecutorial discretion’

Viet D. Dinh, a Georgetown law professor who headed the Office of Legal Policy at Justice before and after the attacks, said the primary strategy is to use "prosecutorial discretion" to detain suspicious individuals by charging them with minor crimes.

"You're talking about a violation of law that may or may not rise to the level of what might usually be called a federal case," Dinh said, referring to credit-card fraud and other offenses.

"But the calculation does not happen in isolation; you are not just talking about the crime itself, but the suspicion of terrorism. . . ."

"That skews the calculation in favor of prosecution."

Bush administration officials have frequently compared the strategy to the anti-Mafia campaign by former attorney general Robert F. Kennedy, who vowed to prosecute mobsters for crimes as minor as spitting on a sidewalk.

But many defense lawyers and civil liberties advocates argue that the Mafia analogy is misplaced.

David Z. Nevin represented Idaho graduate student Sami Omar Al-Hussayen, a Saudi national who was acquitted of federal terrorism charges in a closely watched trial last summer but agreed to be deported rather than fight immigration charges.

Nevin said there are key differences between current counterterrorism cases and the prosecutions of gangsters such as Al Capone, who was famously convicted of tax evasion to get him off the street.

"Everybody knew that Al Capone was committing murders and was doing all sorts of things."

"They just couldn't convict him," Nevin said.

"That's fine if you take it as a given that you have the devil here," he continued.

"The problem is that you end up with people like Sami Al-Hussayen. . . ."

"Whenever you live in that realm, you're going to make mistakes and you're going to hurt innocent people."

Using one case to build another

In the end, most cases on the Justice Department list turned out to have no connection to terrorism at all.

They include Hassan Nasrallah, a Dearborn, Mich., man convicted of credit-card fraud who has the same name as the leader of Hezbollah, or Party of God.

Abdul Farid of High Point, N.C., was arrested on a false tip that he was sending money to the Taliban and was deported after admitting he lied on a loan application.

Moeen Islam Butt, a Pakistani jewelry-kiosk employee in Pennsylvania, spent eight months in jail before being deported on marriage-fraud and immigration charges.

And there is the case of Francois Guagni, a French national who made the mistake of illegally crossing the Canadian border on Sept. 14, 2001, with box cutters in his possession.

It turned out that Guagni used the knives in his job as a drywall installer.

He was deported in March 2003 after pleading guilty to unlawfully entering the country.

"His case had nothing to do with terrorism, as far as I've ever been told," said Guagni's attorney, Christopher D. Smith.

Some of the cases, however, remain murky.

The question of involvement in terrorism lingers even after formal allegations of such ties have been dropped.

Consider the case of Enaam Arnaout, director of the Illinois-based Benevolence International Foundation, who was indicted amid great fanfare in October 2002 for allegedly helping to funnel money and equipment to al Qaeda operatives on three continents.

The charity was shut down.

Less than a year later, prosecutors dropped six of the seven charges against Arnaout, and he pleaded guilty to a single count of racketeering for funding fighters in Bosnia and Chechnya.

During a sentencing hearing in August 2003, U.S. District Judge Suzanne B. Conlon told prosecutors they had "failed to connect the dots" and said there was no evidence that Arnaout "identified with or supported" terrorism.

Bush qualifies success

The administration views the case differently.

Bush, in a speech Friday at the National Counterterrorism Center in Northern Virginia, said investigators had "helped close down a phony charity in Illinois that was channeling money to al Qaeda."

Sabin, the Justice Department's counterterrorism chief, said he could not discuss the specifics of most cases.

But he said one case in particular illustrates the government's strategy: the conviction of Abdurahman Alamoudi, who admitted to taking $1 million from Libya and using it to pay conspirators in a scheme to kill Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah.

Alamoudi, who once worked with senior U.S. officials as head of the American Muslim Council, has agreed to cooperate with federal investigators as part of a plea agreement.

Sabin said the case is "a significant success story" that shows how prosecutors can use one case to help build others.

"We have been successful in obtaining information and fueling our intelligence gathering efforts with many of these cases," Sabin said.

Research database editor Derek Willis contributed to this report.

end quotes

Ah, this thing with these box-cutters?

I thought that they were invented because these terrorists represented a large market for them, and so, some enterprising entrepreneurs here in America started making box cutters, because there was a market for them, and accordingly, there was money to be made!

SO?

What's this about using them to cut sheetrock, then?

Who in their right mind uses a box-cutter for that?

[Livyjr]

And since we are now talking about "flights of fancy" in their more mundane guise as nothing but a pack of outrageous lies .......

"U.S. produces fewer terror convictions than officials claim - Justice Department overstating dragnet’s reach, analysis shows"

Sept. 11 plotter Zacarias Moussaoui is one of just 14 people on the Justice Department’s list of terror convictions to have clear links to al Qaeda, a Washington Post analysis shows.

By Dan Eggen and Julie Tate

Updated: 1:04 a.m. ET June 12, 2005

On Thursday, President Bush stepped to a lectern at the Ohio State Highway Patrol Academy in Columbus to urge renewal of the USA Patriot Act and to boast of the government's success in prosecuting terrorists.

Flanked by Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, Bush said that "federal terrorism investigations have resulted in charges against more than 400 suspects, and more than half of those charged have been convicted."

Those statistics have been used repeatedly by Bush and other administration officials, including Gonzales and his predecessor, John D. Ashcroft, to characterize the government's efforts against terrorism.

But the numbers are misleading at best.

Why does this Bush administration appear so, well, "bush-league"?

"Nerve Agent Spills at Indiana Facility"

Sun Jun 12, 6:37 AM ET

NEWPORT, Ind. - About 30 gallons of a liquid containing a deadly Cold War-era nerve agent spilled at an Indiana chemical weapons depot, but it was safely contained in a sealed area and no one was injured, the Army said Saturday.

The spill occurred Friday night at the Newport Chemical Agent Destruction Facility, where more than 250,000 gallons of the agent VX are stored.

VX is a liquid with the consistency of mineral oil that can kill a healthy adult with a single pinpoint droplet.

The spill happened during a process to destroy the nerve agent by converting it into a caustic chemical called hydrolysate.

The facility has destroyed nearly 2,900 gallons of VX since the process started a month ago, the Army said.

The neutralization process is expected to take more than two years.

Workers would try to determine what caused the valve to leak Friday night and how to fix it, said Army spokeswoman Terry Arthur.

"No agent was released outside the containment area and there was no danger to workers or to the community," the Army said.

Employees in protective gear were working Saturday to clean up any surface that the liquid touched.

The Army wants to transport the hydrolysate — which has been compared to liquid drain cleaner — to a DuPont plant in New Jersey for treatment and disposal in the Delaware River.

The plan has sparked opposition in New Jersey and Delaware.

end quote

SO?

Hhhhmmm?

If we don't use nerve agents, and such like that, ah, how come we got 250,000 gallons of this VX, when all it takes is a drop to kill a healthy adult?

250,000 gallons!

Let's see now, how many drops was that to the gallon, now, which means that this 250,000 gallons could have killed off a whole bunch of people, but of course, since we don't use this stuff directly, having convenient disposable surrogates like Saddam Hussein to do the killing for us .....

[Livyjr]

And if I want a third opinion, I'm going all the way to the top.

I'll ask Mr. Cheney!

And speaking of the "head man", Mr. Big, himself, what's this from OUR "top gun", here, in OUR gummint down there in Washington, D.C.?

"Cheney Deflects Calls to Close Gitmo"

By SIOBHAN McDONOUGH, Associated Press Writer

50 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney said Sunday there are no plans for now to shutter the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay where terrorism suspects are held.

"The important thing here to understand is that the people that are at Guantanamo are bad people," he said.

"I mean, these are terrorists for the most part."

"These are people that were captured in the battlefield of Afghanistan or rounded up as part of the al-Qaida network," he said in an interview to be aired Monday on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes."

Human rights activists and some lawmakers — mostly Democrats — are pressing for the prison's closure because of allegations of torture and abuse of detainees.

President Bush has said his administration is "exploring all alternatives" for detaining the prisoners.

"We've already screened the detainees there and released a number, sent them back to their home countries," Cheney said in the interview taped Friday.

"But what's left is hard core."

The prison in Cuba holds about 540 detainees.

Some have been there more than three years without being charged with any crime.

Most were captured on the battlefields of Afghanistan in 2001 and 2002 and were sent to Guantanamo Bay in hope of extracting useful intelligence about the al-Qaida terrorist network.

With the fate of the prison camp a leading topic on the Sunday talk shows, Sen. Chuck Hagel said the U.S. is "losing the image war around the world" and Guantanamo is one reason.

"It's identifiable with, for right or wrong, a part of America that people in the world believe is a power, an empire that pushes people around, we do it our way, we don't live up to our commitments to multilateral institutions," Hagel, R-Neb., told CNN's "Late Edition."

He contended that Pentagon leaders have failed to take responsibility for the situation, including harsh interrogation techniques and treatment of prisoners.

"This is all adding up to a very dangerous drift in this country."

" ... Not only is it going to end in disaster for us and humility for this country, but we're going to present to the world a very dangerous world if we don't wake up and smell the coffee here," Hagel said.

The Pentagon said in a statement Sunday that it "does not wish to hold detainees longer than necessary and effective processes are in place to regularly review the status of enemy combatants."

The Senate Judiciary Committee plans a hearing Wednesday on the issue of detainees.

"We've actually created a legal black hole there ... I think as long as that exists, we are going to have one more rallying cry against the United States," said Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, the top Democrat on the committee.

"We're the country that tells people that we adhere to the rule of law."

"We want other countries to adhere to the rule of law."

"And in Guantanamo, we are not," Leahy told CBS' "Face the Nation."

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said closing Guantanamo would be an "overreaction," but did said the administration and Congress need to set uniform standards for interrogations and detention.

"Guantanamo Bay is a useful purpose in the war on terror, but under the current regime, under the current circumstances, it's not effectively working," Graham said.

Still, he said, the U.S. needs a place to interrogate these detainees.

"Nobody's going to say move it to Florida, South Carolina, or Vermont, so I think Cuba is as good a place as any," he said.

Time magazine reported Sunday on an 84-page document detailing the Guantanamo interrogation of one detainee, Mohamed al-Qahtani.

He was captured during the war in Afghanistan.

It was learned later he had tried to enter the U.S. in Orlando, Fla., in August 2001, but was turned away by an immigration agent at the airport.

Mohamed Atta, the Sept. 11 ringleader, was in the airport at the same time, U.S. officials have said.

Military intelligence officials at Guantanamo Bay got permission to use intensive interrogation techniques on two prisoners, including al-Qahtani, who were deemed to be important al-Qaida figures, the commander of U.S. Southern Command has said.

Time said interrogators used such techniques as dripping water on al-Qahtani's head; strip-searching him and making him stand nude; and depriving him of sleep.

At one point, after receiving fluid intravenously because he was dehydrated, al-Qahtani was told to urinate in his pants by interrogators who refused his request to use the bathroom so they could continue with their questioning, according to the account.

The Defense Department said in response that the interrogation of al-Qahtani "was guided by a very detailed plan and conducted by trained professionals motivated by a desire to gain actionable intelligence, to include information that might prevent additional attacks on America."

The Pentagon said al-Qahtani provided valuable information on the logistics of the Sept. 11 attacks and the means by which al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden evaded capture by U.S. forces.

"The Department of Defense remains committed to the unequivocal standard of humane treatment for all detainees," the Pentagon said.
___

On the Net:

Defense Department: http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2005/n...50612-3661.html

Amnesty International: http://news.amnesty.org/pages/usa-news-eng

Joint Task Force Guantanamo: http://www.jtfgtmo.southcom.mil/

end quotes

"The important thing here to understand is that the people that are at Guantanamo are bad people," he said, "I mean, these are terrorists for the most part."

Uh, okay, Dick, I think I got some of that, anyway, so, let's see here, if all of these people you're holding captive are real bad people, and some are TAY-RISTS, then what did the others do, if you don't mind my asking, as an American citizen; unlawful carnal knowledge with a goat, or a yak, or something?

Help us out here, Dick!

If they are all bad, but only some are TAY-RISTS, what else is there?

[Livyjr]

And speaking of the "head man", Mr. Big, himself, what's this from OUR "top gun", here, in OUR gummint down there in Washington, D.C.?

"Cheney Deflects Calls to Close Gitmo"

By SIOBHAN McDONOUGH, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney said Sunday there are no plans for now to shutter the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay where terrorism suspects are held.

"The important thing here to understand is that the people that are at Guantanamo are bad people," he said.

"I mean, these are terrorists for the most part."

With the fate of the prison camp a leading topic on the Sunday talk shows, Sen. Chuck Hagel said the U.S. is "losing the image war around the world" and Guantanamo is one reason.

"It's identifiable with, for right or wrong, a part of America that people in the world believe is a power, an empire that pushes people around, we do it our way, we don't live up to our commitments to multilateral institutions," Hagel, R-Neb., told CNN's "Late Edition."

He contended that Pentagon leaders have failed to take responsibility for the situation, including harsh interrogation techniques and treatment of prisoners.

"This is all adding up to a very dangerous drift in this country."

" ... Not only is it going to end in disaster for us and humility for this country, but we're going to present to the world a very dangerous world if we don't wake up and smell the coffee here," Hagel said.

Which, of course, brings us back to Iraq, where Dick and his crowd just want the oil, nothing else, just the oil, regardless of how many lives they have to spend to hold on to it:

U.S. Death Toll in Iraq Crosses 1,700

By PAUL GARWOOD, Associated Press Writer

48 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The military announced the killing of four more U.S. soldiers on Sunday, pushing the American death toll past 1,700, and police found the bullet-riddled bodies of 28 people — many thought to be Sunni Arabs — buried in shallow graves or dumped streetside in Baghdad.

The bodies were discovered as the Shiite-led government pressed to open disarmament talks with insurgents responsible for a relentless campaign of violence, which has taken on ominous sectarian overtones with recurring tit-for-tat killings.

A crackdown by Iraqi security forces in Baghdad and offensives carried out by U.S. forces in western Iraq have had only had a temporary effect in blunting the cycle of carnage in which at least 940 people have died since Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari announced his government six weeks ago.

Al-Jaafari spokesman Laith Kuba said many militant groups were reaching out to the government, seeking a place in the political process.

He urged them to lay down their arms.

Some insurgents are motivated to end their resistance, Kuba argued, by the election of an Iraqi government which put the American presence in the background, although its military is still 140,000 strong.

"Now is the right time for any group to lay down their weapons and take part in the (political) process," he said.

The offer did not include foreign extremists such as Jordanian-born al-Qaida in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi because "they only want to kill," Kuba said.

Four American soldiers died Saturday in two roadside bombings west of Baghdad, increasing the number of U.S. forces killed since the war began in March 2003 to at least 1,701.

Al-Zarqawi's group has claimed responsibility for multiple suicide bombings, including Saturday's attack inside Baghdad's heavily guarded Interior Ministry headquarters.

That attack killed at least three people and targeted the feared Wolf Brigade, a Shiite-dominated commando unit that Sunnis claim is killing members of their community, including Muslim clerics.

On Sunday, Gen. Rashid Flaiyeh, who runs all the Interior Ministry elite units including the Wolf Brigade, escaped an apparent assassination attempt when a mortar barrage rained down on his mother's funeral in northern Baghdad.

Eleven mourners were wounded, including two seriously, Lt. Ismael Abdul Sattar said.

Flaiyeh is Interior Minister Bayan Jabr's security adviser.

Lt. Ayad Othman said a shepherd found the bodies of 20 men on Friday in the Nahrawan desert, 20 miles east of Baghdad.

"All were blindfolded and their hands were tied behind their backs and shot from behind," Othman said.

"The assassins excavated a hole and buried them inside it and seven were found naked."

Witnesses claimed the slain men were Sunnis, according to a statement from the influential Sunni organization, the Association of Muslim Scholars.

No details were provided to support the claim, but the association said it had begun an investigation.

Eight other slain men were found shot in the head Sunday in two different locations in Baghdad's predominatly Shiite northern suburb of Shula, police Capt. Majed Abdul Aziz said.

The bodies could not immediately be identified.

"The interior minister keeps saying security is getting better, but everyday we hear of 20 bodies killed here and other 20 bodies found there," said Salih al-Mutlak, head of the prominent umbrella Sunni body, the National Dialogue Council.

The grisly discoveries were announced two days after 21 men were found slain Friday near Qaim, on the lawless Syrian frontier about 200 miles west of Baghdad.

It was feared the bodies may have been those of Iraqi soldiers who went missing Wednesday after leaving their base in Akashat, a remote village near Qaim, in a bus bound for Baghdad.

Last month, multiple batches of bodies turned up in various locations across Iraq.

Many were killed in apparent revenge slayings that have raised fears Iraq was descending into sectarian civil war.

Despite the raging violence, there were several positive developments Sunday.

French journalist Florence Aubenas and her Iraqi assistant Hussein Hanoun al-Saadi were freed Saturday after five months in captivity.

Aubenas left Baghdad at noon Sunday on a French government plane in the middle of a sandstorm that had closed the capital's international airport for two days.

Al-Saadi received a hero's welcome — hugs and kisses from more than 60 relatives and friends at his southern Baghdad home.

A band of trumpets played Arab tunes and a sheep was slaughtered to celebrate his homecoming.

On her return to France, the veteran reporter for the Liberation newspaper said she had been held in an Iraq cellar in "difficult conditions," tied up and with little water.

French officials said no ransom was paid.

In northern Iraq, the 111-member Kurdish Parliament unanimously elected veteran guerrilla leader Massoud Barzani to be the first president of Iraq's northern Kurdistan region, prompting horn-honking celebrations by supporters.

Barzani was elected to a four-year term and will also lead the Kurdish Peshmerga militia, which numbers an estimated 100,000 members.

Some 2,000 soccer fans tried to ignore the violence and watched two of Iraq's elite teams play at Baghdad's biggest sports complex, the 50,000-capacity Shaab Stadium.

It reopened to the public Sunday after it was commandeered two years ago for a U.S. military base.

Zawraa, an ancient name for Baghdad, beat Shurta, Arabic for police, 2-0 in a game that many spectators feared could be marred by a mortar attack or suicide bombing — a regular occurrence in the capital.

"We were terrified at the beginning, but when the game started we had the chance to forget about the attacks, the bombs and the violence for a little while," said Shurta fan Ghazi Faisal, a police major.

"For once there was some joy."

[Livyjr]

And winging our way back from Iraq to jeffmoskin's California, where the cats and poodles in the posh sections are being eaten by coyotes, likely in from the "Valley", and cougars are allegedly stalking, or eyeing, anyway, some of the more obese shop-til-you-drop crowd on Rodeo Drive, if that is really where they do shop, out there, what's this now?

Is nature rebelling out there, jeffmoskin?

Hello, jeffmoskin .....

Uh, jeffmoskin ......

Hhhhmmmm?

Are those cougar tracks?

No, looks more like a sea lion to me!

"Sea Lion Bites Surfer at California Beach"

Sat Jun 11, 6:46 AM ET

MANHATTAN BEACH, Calif. - A sea lion that had been charging at beachgoers bit a surfer taking a breather, then waddled into the water and swam away.

Josh Duncan came within 5 feet of the sea lion Friday when it bit him, requiring the 27-year-old surfer to get stitches and a tetanus shot for the inch-long wound on his thigh, lifeguard Capt. Mike Cunningham said.

The bite ripped through his wet suit.

In recent weeks, as many as 70 sick and dying sea lions have been lumbering ashore along Southern California.

Scientists believe they're victims of demoic acid poisoning from the seasonal red tide algae bloom.

Demoic acid is a naturally occurring neurotoxin that causes stomach distress, convulsions, central nervous system damage and sometimes death in sea lions.

The mammals ingest the acid when they eat anchovies and sardines that have consumed the toxic algae that produces it.

The sea lion that bit Duncan showed symptoms of poisoning, Cunningham said.

end quotes

Bit a surfer?

This wild animal dared to bite a surfer?

Oh, my God, that's terrible.

I think all those sea lions out there should be locked up with those TAY-RISTS in Gitmo, just to protect us, or the surfers, anyway!

Surf's up, Dude!

Just watch the sea lions, because they are having a bad hair day today, and so, they're kind of snippy, and downright so, if you ask me, anyway!

[Livyjr]

And this FYI is done as a public service for our listening audience in here, or should that be, "for our viewers"?

Rep John Conyers is trying to get 500,000 signatures on his petition to the President. You can add your name here at moveonpac.org:

http://www.moveonpac.org/tellthetruth/

"The Downing Street Memo"

By Maryellen Lake

June 10, 2005

The mainstream American media are desperately ignoring the smoking gun(s) found in the Downing Street Memo, recently released in Britain.

Even as we speak, however, Rep. John Conyers has thousands of signtures to his letter demanding an explanation of the flim-flammery contained in those brief minutes of a meeting with Tony Blair and his very own "coalition of the willing."

A few intrepid voices in the House are also calling for the empanelling of an Impeachment Inquiry.

George Bush, however, continues to insist that the memo lies.

That should come as no surprise from a President who spends every waking hour in Never-Never Land.

But Ken Mehlman of the RNC has flatly stated that anyone who has ever read the memo has discredited it.

That's interesting - no one in the British government or in MI6 has discredited it.

Are we to assume that they have never read it?

In any event, Bush's ass is very close to being put into a sling from which he may not be able to extricate himself - provided, that is, our media have the gumption to even ask him about the memo!

But nobody seems to be asking except that crazy Conyers and, by now we hope, millions of Americans who are on the Internet and signing Conyers' letter and petitions like mad.

But (no pun intended) the man whose fanny is in the most danger is Blair.

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

If he admits that the memo is, indeed, authentic, he will plant Bush's fanny firmly in the fishnet of possible impeachment thereby betraying his big, bullying buddy; if he denies and lies, his own backside is in danger of getting waffle-imprinted.

Watching this unfold has the potential of becoming a new political sport!

Are we about to discover an old, old truth - that there is no honor among thieves?

Will Blair buckle and try to discredit the minutes of his own meeting?

Or will he turn on Bush to save his own tush?

Stay tuned.

Although that probably won't do you much good if your only access is to the American media.

Check out the memo itself.

Just google in Downing Street Memo and read the whole sickening thing.

No matter - we can still maintain some optimism that eventually this issue will hit the ms media so as to cause possibly several asses to land in the appropriate slings of their own making.

Dare we hope?

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/...p?articleID=611

[Livyjr]

And winging our way back from Iraq to jeffmoskin's California, where the cats and poodles in the posh sections are being eaten by coyotes, likely in from the "Valley", and cougars are allegedly stalking, or eyeing, anyway, some of the more obese shop-til-you-drop crowd on Rodeo Drive, if that is really where they do shop, out there, what's this now?

Is nature rebelling out there, jeffmoskin?

Hello, jeffmoskin .....

Uh, jeffmoskin ......

Hhhhmmmm?

Are those cougar tracks?

No, looks more like a sea lion to me!

"Sea Lion Bites Surfer at California Beach"

Sat Jun 11, 6:46 AM ET

MANHATTAN BEACH, Calif. - A sea lion that had been charging at beachgoers bit a surfer taking a breather, then waddled into the water and swam away.

Josh Duncan came within 5 feet of the sea lion Friday when it bit him, requiring the 27-year-old surfer to get stitches and a tetanus shot for the inch-long wound on his thigh, lifeguard Capt. Mike Cunningham said.

The bite ripped through his wet suit.

end quotes 

Bit a surfer?

This wild animal dared to bite a surfer?

Oh, my God, that's terrible.

I think all those sea lions out there should be locked up with those TAY-RISTS in Gitmo, just to protect us, or the surfers, anyway!

Surf's up, Dude!

Just watch the sea lions, because they are having a bad hair day today, and so, they're kind of snippy, and downright so, if you ask me, anyway!

Which somehow brings us back to Texas where ........

"Texas Governor Mobilizes Evangelicals"

By MATT CURRY, Associated Press Writer

Sun Jun 12, 2:23 PM ET

DALLAS - Even for Texas, the scene was remarkable: The governor, flanked by an out-of-state televangelist and religious right leaders, signing legislation in a church school gymnasium amid shouts of "amen" from backers who just as well could have been attending a revival.

It wasn't just the blatant blend of church and state that made the gathering in Fort Worth unusual.

Advance publicity also attracted about 300 angry protesters — unheard of for the routine business of ceremonial bill signings.

Now some wonder whether Gov. Rick Perry overplayed his hand last week trying to stick to the playbook used by old friend George W. Bush and political whiz Karl Rove, mobilizing evangelicals for last year's presidential race.

"Governor Perry and his people are just not as good as Bush and Rove," Southern Methodist University political scientist Cal Jillson said.

"Governor Perry knows the steps, but he's got no rhythm."

Perry's faith-based appeal came as he awaited possible Republican Party primary challenges from U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison and Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn in 2006.

But Jillson said the ex-Democrat risks alienating moderate Republicans turned off by an in-your-face approach to political issues with religious themes.

It's a gamble the governor seems willing to take.

Last month, he spoke to about 500 pastors in Austin at a meeting of the Texas Restoration Project, which plans to register 300,000 new "values voters" in Texas and elect candidates who reflect their conservative views.

In the private meeting, Perry championed promotion of spiritual values on the public square.

"One of the great myths of our time is that you can't legislate morality," the governor told the ministers, according to a transcript provided to The Associated Press by his campaign.

"If you can't legislate morality, then you can neither lock criminals up nor let them go free."

"If you can't legislate morality, you can neither recognize gay marriage nor prohibit it."

"If you can't legislate morality, you can neither allow for prayer in school nor prevent it," he said.

"It is a ridiculous notion to say you can't legislate morality."

"I say you can't NOT legislate morality."

Perry, a United Methodist, did not refer to the death penalty, which his denomination says devalues life and should be eliminated from criminal codes.

The governor, a capital punishment proponent, presides over the nation's most active death penalty state.

Perry's pastor, the Rev. James Mayfield of Tarrytown United Methodist Church in Austin, did not respond to e-mail or phone messages from the AP seeking comment.

Perry grew up attending both the Baptist and Methodist churches in the tiny Paint Creek community in West Texas, spokeswoman Kathy Walt said.

His religious beliefs are guided by several factors, including his understanding of scripture and conversations with "faith leaders."

"His walk of faith is a lifelong journey of a sinner who has accepted the grace of God," she said.

Ohio televangelist Rod Parsley and Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council in Washington were among the religious conservatives who shared the stage with Perry at the Fort Worth bill signing.

Parsley linked homosexuality and disease rates, and about 1,000 supporters cheered attacks on "activist judges" and the media.

Objections to Perry using a church school as a backdrop to a bill signing preceded his visit, with critics mostly focusing on separation of church and state.

"This is one of the most outrageous misuses of a house of worship for political gain that I've ever seen," said Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Washington, D.C.-based Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

Perry shrugged off the complaints.

"We could have signed it in a lot of different locations," Perry said on Fox News.

"We could have signed it in a Wal-Mart parking lot, and those who are against people of faith being involved in the electoral process would still have been very much against this bill."

Perry actually signed two measures. One will impose more limits on late-term abortions and require minor girls to get written parental consent.

The other would ban same-sex marriage, but voters must approve the constitutional amendment in November.

Perkins said he sees nothing wrong with signing legislation at a Christian school, and he pointed to a consistent theme of the bill-signing: Forces are at work to exclude the religious-minded from political and civic debate.

"People of faith are not backing up, we are not giving up, we are here to stay," he said.

Luis Saenz, Perry's campaign spokesman, said Perry is not the first governor to sign a bill in a religious setting.

Political consultant Marc Campos, who was an aide to former Democratic Gov. Mark White, confirmed White signed a bill in 1984 extending workers compensation benefits to farm workers on the front steps of a Catholic shrine where Mass was held regularly.

He wrote on his Web site that he didn't recall "getting cracked on for holding a bill signing ceremony at a religious institution."

[Livyjr]

And returning here, for a moment, at least, to this issue of Lebanon, and Hezbollah, who I believe are up there on George W. Bush's long list of his many enemies in this world of OURS, we have something going on that George is not going to like, I think anyway, since friends of his enemies are 'agin' him, and his, and so:

"Lebanon Voters Show Support for Hezbollah"

By HUSSEIN DAKROUB, Associated Press Writer

BINT JBEIL, Lebanon - Voters walked past veiled young women handing out campaign fliers Sunday in southern Lebanon, where the front-runner was Hezbollah and the vote was seen as a referendum on whether the Syrian-backed militant group will be allowed to stay armed.

The regional balloting marked the second of four rounds of voting to be held on consecutive Sundays in the first election in three decades to be held without Syrian troops in the country.

Emboldened by the Syrian troop withdrawal in April, the opposition hopes the elections will end Damascus' control of the legislature and the campaigning was cast as a contest between pro- and anti-Syrian camps.

"Anti-Syrian Candidates Concede in Lebanon"

By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer

1 hour, 20 minutes ago

SOUK EL-GHARB, Lebanon - Anti-Syrian candidates apparently suffered major losses in a third round of elections Sunday to fill nearly half the seats in parliament, a senior opposition leader conceded after a campaign that led to some surprising alliances.

Walid Jumblatt said former army commander Michel Aoun, who broke opposition ranks and joined pro-Syrian groups on an anti-corruption slate, was winning in contested constituencies.

Aoun's success could hurt the opposition's drive to gain a majority in the 128-seat legislature and leave him a key player in the fight over Syrian control.

An empowered Aoun could put the brakes on the opposition's campaign to remove the pro-Syrian President Emile Lahoud.

Preliminary results and campaign estimates showed Aoun and his allies leading in several districts in Mount Lebanon and in the eastern Bekaa Valley.

In some areas, his allies were already celebrating with fireworks.

Official results were expected Monday.

Jumblatt accused Aoun, who returned from 14 years' exile in May, of being brought in by Damascus to undermine the opposition.

"Michel Aoun is a small (Syrian) tool," he told Lebanese Broadcasting Corp. television.

"True he succeeded, I concede that."

Aoun says his feud with Syria is over now that Damascus has withdrawn its army from the country and he campaigned on a platform to fight the corruption he blames for Lebanon's economic ills, including a national debt of over $30 billion.

The Christian leader said he was willing to talk with other factions in the new parliament and the priorities of his Free Patriotic Movement would be to work for a new election law, shorten the mandate of parliament's four-year term and demand the government carry out a financial audit.

Anti-Syrian forces need at least 45 more seats to win a firm grasp on Parliament and wean it of Damascus' control.

The four-stage elections end next Sunday when voters cast their ballots in northern Lebanon.

The withdrawal of Syria's army from Lebanon in April, and subsequent jockeying for power, fractured some of the longstanding pro- and anti-Syrian political alliances.

Aoun, who fought and lost a war against Syria in 1989, broke with the opposition after his return from exile, pitting himself against Jumblatt.

Jumblatt was allied with Saad Hariri, son of slain former Premier Rafik Hariri, who led a ticket to sweep the Beirut elections.

But the Druse leader also has forged ties with right-wing Christian politicians and the pro-Syrian militant group Hezbollah in the effort to defeat Aoun's slate.

Turnout among the 1.2 million eligible voters was high Sunday.

No official figures were available, but media estimated it was about 54 percent in Mount Lebanon and 49 percent in the Bekaa Valley.

By contrast, turnout was 27 percent in the May 29 voting in Beirut that kicked off the staggered voting.

Many city dwellers drove to their hometowns in Mount Lebanon, the country's most populous province, and the eastern Bekaa Valley to cast their ballots.

They brought along their children, party flags and pictures of favored candidates, Christians and Muslims mingled in a festive atmosphere.

The vote, the first since Syrian forces withdrew from Lebanon after 29 years, was largely peaceful despite some minor scuffles.

The government sent army and police reinforcements to Mount Lebanon, the historic heart of the country, after political tensions sparked violence last week.

In Souk el-Gharb, where Christian forces fought bloody battles with the Druse in the 1980s, residents were delighted by the peaceful competition.

"For me, ballot box battles are for sure much better than gunbattles," said Shahine Salibi, a 65-year-old Christian grocer.

"We want change and we want people who will fight corruption," he said, adding that he voted for a ticket backed by Aoun.

Some 100 candidates competed in Mount Lebanon for 35 seats, allocated to different sects according to Lebanon's power-sharing political system.

In the eastern Bekaa Valley near the Syrian border, 119 people were running for 23 seats.

Aoun was among the first to vote, arriving under heavy guard at a polling station in his hometown of Haret Hreik, a Shiite southern suburb of Beirut and Hezbollah stronghold.

Dozens of supporters broke into cheers and applause.

Although former enemies banded together in electoral alliances, bitter reminders of the 1975-1990 civil war remained.

In the village of Kfar Matta, where Christian militiamen killed 107 Druse in 1983 before they were driven out of the area, Druse inhabitants cast their ballots while displaced Christians voted at makeshift polling stations on another mountain ridge to avoid friction.

"This is a sad day."

"It's humiliating to have to vote here, but what can I do?"

"One has to keep hope alive," Michel Haddad said after casting his ballot in Mechref, nine miles away.

"Our leaders have reconciled, but we're still unable to go to our village."

Lahoud voted in his Christian mountain hometown of Baabdat.

He vowed to fight opposition attempts to force his resignation.

Syria withdrew its military forces from Lebanon under international pressure and mass protests that followed Hariri's Feb. 14 assassination.

But anti-Syrian Lebanese — and the United States — accuse Damascus of not fully withdrawing its intelligence operatives and perhaps even organizing political assassinations.

Syria has denied the allegations.

The Lebanese opposition blames Syria and its Lebanese allies for the murders of Hariri and the anti-Syrian journalist Samir Kassir.

Both parties deny the allegations.

[Livyjr]

"Anti-Syrian Candidates Concede in Lebanon"

By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer

SOUK EL-GHARB, Lebanon - Anti-Syrian candidates apparently suffered major losses in a third round of elections Sunday to fill nearly half the seats in parliament, a senior opposition leader conceded after a campaign that led to some surprising alliances.

Walid Jumblatt said former army commander Michel Aoun, who broke opposition ranks and joined pro-Syrian groups on an anti-corruption slate, was winning in contested constituencies.

But anti-Syrian Lebanese — and the United States — accuse Damascus of not fully withdrawing its intelligence operatives and perhaps even organizing political assassinations.

We sure could use an anti-corruption slate over here, too, but where would we ever get one from?

"Bush Again Prods Congress on Agenda"

By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer

Sun Jun 12, 9:23 AM ET

WASHINGTON - The future economic security of the nation is in the hands of Congress, President Bush said Saturday.

Setting the stage for a week in which he will push stalled sections of his domestic agenda, Bush told his weekly radio audience that lawmakers need to get an energy bill to his desk within weeks and embrace his ideas for changing Social Security.

On Tuesday, the president will discuss Social Security with young people in Pennsylvania.

"Our young people understand that if we fail to act, Social Security will not be sound when they need it," Bush said, repeating the message he's carried cross-country on his campaign to change Social Security and ensure its future solvency.

"They know that the millions of baby boomers about to retire will live longer and collect benefits that the system cannot afford."

On Wednesday in Washington, he'll renew his call for Congress to act on an energy plan.

Despite opposition from the White House, a growing number of Republican and Democratic senators want to address global warming as part of the country's broad energy policy.

The Senate is schedule to take up energy legislation next week.

Whether to include a measure on climate change, such as limiting heat-trapping emissions, will be sharply debated.

The White House strongly opposes any mandatory limits on greenhouse emissions — such as carbon from burning fossil fuels — that many scientists believe are causing the earth to warm.

The House rebuffed any attempt to address global warming when it passed its energy bill in April.

If the Senate moves ahead with a climate provision, it would create yet another confrontation when the two chambers try to reconcile their differences and fashion a final bill.

"The House has passed a good energy bill."

"Now the American people expect the Senate to act," Bush said in his speech.

"For the sake of our economic and national security, Congress needs to get a good energy bill to my desk by August."

On Thursday and Friday, Bush will promote the new prescription drug benefit for Medicare recipients.

Seniors will be eligible to enroll beginning in November for the voluntary benefit that begins in January.

"During the coming months, we will work to educate all of our seniors about this new benefit, so they can choose confidently the drug plan that best meets their needs," he said.

On another economic issue, the president urged Congress not to alter his budget plan.

Just six weeks ago the House and Senate passed a budget plan that looked a lot like Bush's, forecasting cuts averaging 1 percent from domestic agencies, including the Energy, Education and Agriculture departments.

Now, some lawmakers have proposed transferring billions from Bush's military and foreign aid budgets to domestic programs he wants to cut or eliminate.

"To ensure economic security for all Americans, Congress needs to keep your taxes low and be wise with taxpayers' dollars," Bush said.

[Livyjr]

And here is one of those stories from a few days ago, or so, that just kept nagging at me, and so, I went back, and here it is:

"New York governor fears anti-globalization crusaders gaining ground"

Wednesday June 01, 2005

By PHIL COUVRETTE

Associated Press Writer

MONTREAL (AP) New York Gov. George Pataki warned Wednesday that anti-globalization efforts were gaining ground, citing the stunning rejection of the EU constitution by the French and Dutch and the reluctance of many in the U.S. Congress to approve a free-trade pact with Central America.

"There is a growing sentiment against the free market, open economies and more globalization of the world's economy,'' Pataki said in a speech at the International Economic Forum of the Americas.

"We saw what might be an element of that in France when the French people voted down ratification of the European Union constitution.''

On Sunday, 55 percent of French voters said no to the proposed EU constitution, in part citing fears of job losses to outsourcing and other open-market consequences.

Dutch voters Wednesday overwhelmingly rejected the EU constitution, which was designed to further unify the 25-nation bloc and give it more clout on the world stage, but has instead polarized opinion across Europe.

Pataki also said he was doubtful that Congress would approve the Central American Free Trade Agreement, or CAFTA.

"I'm not sure he'll get it through Congress,'' Pataki said of President Bush, "because there are those who are saying we have to protect the industries that are here as opposed to opening up markets both ways."

"I think that is completely wrong.''

Many Democrats complain the agreement lacks labor and environmental protections to stop abuses of workers in poor, low-wage Central America.

Republican opponents mainly come from textile areas hit hard by foreign competition or areas connected to the sugar industry, which considers CAFTA a threat to its future.

"I think we cannot reverse the tide of globalization,'' insisted Pataki.

"I think we have to make sure it is done in an intelligent and balanced way, but we cannot build barriers to free-trade.''

Pataki was paid for the speech by the Montreal Institute of Administrative Studies, a nonprofit group created to study the global economy and public administration.

His usual fee is $15,000 to $20,000.

During his visit, Pataki also had private talks with Quebec Premier Jean Charest.

Pataki spokesman Kevin Quinn said the two planned to discuss New York-Quebec issues with the main focus on border security, trade and economic development.

The Pataki aide said the two would also be finalizing plans for the third Quebec-New York economic summit to be held in Albany in October.

Quinn said Pataki would be returning to New York state Wednesday night.

Pataki held a news conference in Rouses Point on Lake Champlain just south of the New York-Quebec border earlier Wednesday to announce $1.8 million in grants to northern New York counties for a variety of projects.

end quotes

His usual fee is $15,000 to $20,000?

HUH?

Has anybody ever heard this guy speak?

He's duller than ditch-water, and that is for sure!

SO?

I wonder what they give him the money for, then?

And as to this "globalization" that Pataki is talking about, well, Iraq is a prime example of that, because over there, George W. Bush "globalized" the oil for Dick Cheney and his crowd, and you know, maybe that's what some of this anti- globalization is really all about!

People just don't like theft, and that is that, regardless of who the thief might be, or what country he might head up, either, or state, for that matter!

[Livyjr]

We sure could use an anti-corruption slate over here, too, but where would we ever get one from?

"Bush Again Prods Congress on Agenda"

By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer

Sun Jun 12, 9:23 AM ET

WASHINGTON - The future economic security of the nation is in the hands of Congress, President Bush said Saturday.

Setting the stage for a week in which he will push stalled sections of his domestic agenda, Bush told his weekly radio audience that lawmakers need to get an energy bill to his desk within weeks and embrace his ideas for changing    Social Security.

"The House has passed a good energy bill."

"Now the American people expect the Senate to act," Bush said in his speech.

"For the sake of our economic and national security, Congress needs to get a good energy bill to my desk by August."

"We've also got to understand, in order to power the power-generating plants that are now being built in California, we need more energy!"

- George W. Bush, in a masterful dissertation on the First, Second and Third Laws of Thermodynamics, from the perspective of a Harvard MBA who is now, God help us all, president of America, as given to the engineering and scientific communities of the world, for their edification, because we just don't know any of this, while he does, Washington, D.C.; April 24, 2001

[jeffmoskin]

And BTW, Mr. Livyjr, in case you haven't seen this column in the N.Y. Times I am sending it along.

The column didn't get attached, or was removed by big brother.