Life in OUR America, Volume 2, The Livyjr Files Options

[jeffmoskin]

Think on OUR Pledge of Allegiance: "Liberty and Justice for ALL!"

Not "freedom for all!"

A big difference.

Or "My Country Tis of Thee, sweet land of liberty"!

Again, "LIBERTY", and not freedom!

When I was young, we talked of liberty!

Maybe we should start talking about "Justice" again. Without Justice, we certainly won't have peace. And without peace, how can there be liberty?

And speaking of "Justice," I was at a wedding last night, and sat next to an old friend whose son(in Med school when 9/11 happened) volunteered for the National Guard. "Why not," he thought. "My country's been ATTACKED; I will soon be a doc; if we get hit big-time here at home, I could be of service."

B*SH SH*T

Bait and switch.

Next week, he gets shipped to Iraq.

How does that serve wounded Americans here in America after ne next9/11?

Bush Lies.

Bush Lies.

Bush Lies.

Bush Lies.

"No Justice, no peace." -- heard in L.A. after Rodney King Riots, 1992

[Abu Beacon]

Well, there is, and his name is George W. Bush, and from all appearances, that foe is going to be a foe for at least four more long, and likely dreary years, and so ......

As the song says; "Pancho needs your prayers, it's true, but save a few for George W. Bush, too!"

SO!

Let us all think on what it really means to be an "American", and in that "being", let us not exclude George W. Bush from OUR compassion, even as he and the Republican Party work very hard to EXCLUDE us from theirs!

A thought, anyway, on what being an American with "liberty of conscious" means to me!

Words of wisdom in the last three posts by Livyjr, who can never be accused of not looking deeply into the issues of the day, of which we have many.

This thread has been going on for a long time. It is one I have never failed to read because it always covers Common Ground and always displays Common Semse.

There is nothing superficial in these postings.

As you can tell, I am an admirer of Livyjr and his refusal to accept second and third class actions from an administration which represents a First Class Nation.

Our America. Keeping it that way is not going to be easy.

There are probably some postings on the Forum today concerning Tim Russert's program " Meet The Press. " I have not looked through the various threads yet.
I thought it was an excellent program from start to end, especially the first part which was a long distance interview from Iraq with Senators Clinton and McCain.

Generally, a very positive program. What made a huge impression on me was seeing the difference between these two as opposed to watching George Bush talking to the Press. Agree with them or not, these were two sincere, real people, not playing up to the camera, just telling the American people what they really thought were the best moves to make in Iraq.

The only statement made that seemed a bit disingeuous to me was McCain's saying he could not understand why the Europeans were not more willing to get involved with helping us in Iraq.

Yes, you do know, Mr. McCain.

Yes, it is in their best interest to help get this mess solved. So why do they not help more?

Because, as you very well know Mr. MCCain, they cannot help being human and it is difficult for heads of nations to be told how cowardly they are, how mealy mouthed they are, how self serving they are by an upstart, hip shooting cowboy from Texas who tells them in the beginning they are not needed, and also being told by a sharp tongued Sec'y. of Defense that they are " Old Europe " and not needed. " With you or without you. " That's what they heard.

And it is not easy for them to forget those words.

Perhaps, in time ---- with enough humility by those who see themselves as " The Untouchables "

A.B.

[jeffmoskin]

...The only statement made that seemed a bit disingeuous to me was McCain's saying he could not understand why the Europeans were not more willing to get involved with helping us in Iraq.

Yes, you do know, Mr. McCain.

Yes, it is in their best interest to help get this mess solved. So why do they not help more?

Because, as you very well know Mr. MCCain, they cannot help being human and it is difficult for heads of nations to be told how cowardly they are, how mealy mouthed they are, how self serving they are by an upstart, hip shooting cowboy from Texas who tells them in the beginning they are not needed, and also being told by a sharp tongued Sec'y. of Defense that they are " Old Europe " and not needed. " With you or without you. " That's what they heard.

And it is not easy for them to forget those words...

But wait...there's more.

1. "Old Europe" has tasted war, up close and personal, and is not in a hurry to taste it again.

2. "Old Europe" was owed a lot of money by Saddam, which they NEVER would have loaned without Iraqi oil as collateral. Unless Cheney's mafia agrees to share some of the spoils (fat chance), there is no reason for them to cooperate.

3. "Old Europe" is now "United Europe." They are cutting deals with China. They are cutting deals with Mercosur in South America. They are talking of a European Army, which really means NATO minus the USA.

The Bushies need to wake up and see what has happened during their umm... CRUSADE. The world is changing. And we are being left behind.

Out in the cold.

[Livyjr]

Our America.

Keeping it that way is not going to be easy.

There are probably some postings on the Forum today concerning Tim Russert's program " Meet The Press. "

Generally, a very positive program.

The only statement made that seemed a bit disingeuous to me was McCain's saying he could not understand why the Europeans were not more willing to get involved with helping us in Iraq.

Yes, you do know, Mr. McCain.

Yes, it is in their best interest to help get this mess solved.

So why do they not help more?

Because, as you very well know Mr. MCCain, they cannot help being human and it is difficult for heads of nations to be told how cowardly they are, how mealy mouthed they are, how self serving they are by an upstart, hip shooting cowboy from Texas who tells them in the beginning they are not needed, and also being told by a sharp tongued Sec'y. of Defense that they are " Old Europe " and not needed. "

With you or without you. "

That's what they heard.

A.B.

But wait...there's more.

1. "Old Europe" has tasted war, up close and personal, and is not in a hurry to taste it again.

2. "Old Europe" was owed a lot of money by Saddam, which they NEVER would have loaned without Iraqi oil as collateral.

Unless Cheney's mafia agrees to share some of the spoils (fat chance), there is no reason for them to cooperate.

3. "Old Europe" is now "United Europe."

They are cutting deals with China. They are cutting deals with Mercosur in South America.

They are talking of a European Army, which really means NATO minus the USA.

The Bushies need to wake up and see what has happened during their umm... CRUSADE.

The world is changing.

And we are being left behind.

Out in the cold.

You know, A.B., and jeffmoskin, if someone told me that God had picked out Al Gore to invent this internet, JUST SO THIS FORUM COULD EXIST, and hence, the three of us from all across the span of time, and the areal extent of the United States could meet in here to "chat", as Committees of Correspondence did back in the days of the American Revolution, I would have no trouble whatsoever believing it to be true, because, it sure is a miracle to me, one that has transformed my life in a very short amount of time, and in a very positive manner!

And talk about synchronicity, or that good old-fashioned juxtaposition:

Top Stories - AP

"Bush Seeks to Repair European Relations"

1 hour, 2 minutes ago

By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent

BRUSSELS, Belgium - President Bush is seeking to repair rocky relations with European allies embittered by the Iraq war and frustrated that the White House often ignored their views.

The president and his wife, Laura, left Washington early Sunday and were to arrive at night in Brussels.

Hoping to set a different tone for his second term, Bush will meet over five days with some of his toughest critics: French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, both of whom fiercely opposed the U.S. led invasion.

Bush also will see Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has alarmed the West with Moscow's retreat from democracy.

The United States and Europe too often "talk past each other," Bush said in an interview before his departure, and that it was time to reinvigorate relations among allies.

An alliance of 88 environmental, human rights, peace and other groups planned two days of protests in Brussels, beginning Monday, to demand "no European complicity" in a U.S.-designed world order.

Brussels police readied 2,500 officers — 1,000 more than the usual number for the three or four summit meetings that bring European Union leaders to the Belgian capital every year.

While seeking to move past old divisions, Bush and European leaders still face major differences.

Washington opposes Europe's plans to lift a 15-year-old arms embargo against China.

Bush has been cool toward Europe's negotiations to persuade Iran to abandon its suspected nuclear weapons program.

The White House prefers asking the U.N. Nations Security Council to punish Tehran.

Hard feelings linger from Bush's opposition to the Kyoto climate change treaty and the International Criminal Court.

An issue where the allies may find common ground is a demand that Syria withdraw its forces from Lebanon — a declaration prompted by the assassination of a former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, in a massive bombing in Beirut.

In a speech Monday, Bush intended to express hopes for closer trans-Atlantic ties.

Courting France, the president has a private dinner with Chirac.

On Tuesday, Bush is attending NATO and EU meetings.

Wednesday finds the president in Mainz, Germany, for a meeting with Schroeder.

The trip ends Thursday with talks with Putin in Slovakia.

Bush's talks with the Russian president are the most important of the trip, said Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, the senior Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Putin "has come out very recently and said the Iranians are not producing nuclear weapons, it's only nuclear power, and, therefore, he's going to go ahead and continue helping them."

"And I think that's a stern conversation they need to have," Rockefeller told "Fox News Sunday."

The question on European minds is whether Bush, after offering olive branches during his visit, will put his conciliatory words into practice and engage in give-and-take diplomacy with allies.

Many Europeans are skeptical.

"Clearly Bush has learned in his first term that there are limits to what America can do by itself," said Ivo Daalder, a European expert on the National Security Council staff during the Clinton administration.

"He only has to look at Iraq where 85 percent of the foreign troops, 90 percent of the casualties and 95 percent of the reconstruction dollars are American," Daalder said.

In a signal of unity, NATO is expected to announce Tuesday that all 26 allies finally have agreed to contribute to the alliance mission to train Iraq's armed forces, even though some will only work outside the country or just help cover costs.

The world's most powerful military alliance has struggled to find the 160 instructors it needs to complete the first phase of the operation, which offers training for senior officers within Baghdad's heavily guarded "Green Zone."

Across Europe, Bush is widely disliked.

European perceptions of an arrogant America were symbolized for many people by photos of abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison.

The hard feelings were aggravated over the last four years by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld's dismissal of Iraq critics as representing "old Europe" and then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice's statement that France should be punished and Germany ignored for opposing Bush.

Rice has improved relations recently by making Europe her first destination after being sworn in as secretary of state.

Rumsfeld, too, suggested he has turned a new leaf by saying his earlier criticism came from the "old Rumsfeld."

[Livyjr]

You know, A.B., and jeffmoskin, if someone told me that God had picked out Al Gore to invent this internet, JUST SO THIS FORUM COULD EXIST, and hence, the three of us from all across the span of time, and the areal extent of the United States could meet in here to "chat", as Committees of Correspondence did back in the days of the American Revolution, I would have no trouble whatsoever believing it to be true, because, it sure is a miracle to me, one that has transformed my life in a very short amount of time, and in a very positive manner!

And here I am just coming back from "A.B.'s Corner", which I am beginning to think of as the "warm side of town" in here.

It must be that stove!

BUT .....

As A.B. said in a post in there about the times of the "Great Depression", sometimes, there is work to be done, and so, you have to get up away from the fire and go out into the world to let your voice be heard, lest all you cherish be lost from you forever, and hence this thread, which is where that work gets done, at least for me, and that takes us back up to this story above, on the Bush Co.'s trying to now "woo" Europe, to win back some "favor", I guess it would be called, and to me, IT IS JUST A LITTLE LATE FOR THAT NOW, isn't it?

The Bush Co.'s are reduced to crawling, in front of all the candid world, BECAUSE OF ALL THEIR STRUT AND SWAGGER AND CONTINUOUS STREAM OF LIES OF YESTERDAY!

And how about that?

Comeuppance, it is called, where I was raised up, here in OUR America!

"Don't get above your raising!"

"Be humble!"

"Walk SOFTLY", especially when the stick you carry is a big one!

But these are all lessons and admonitions for a lesser man than George W. Bush, apparently, and so, now it appears that he is going to have to learn them, as an American president, when he really should have learned these things as a child!

When I was young, fifth grade, I believe it was, I was reading a series of books about other Americans of the past, like George Washington Carver and Thomas Edison, and Abraham Lincoln, and all of these books looked at the lives these people led as children!

Adversity!

A seeming constant companion, and yet, in all of these books, those "children" overcame that adversity and made something of themselves.

And I found inspiration in these books for my own life, and growth as a person of this world, for I was taught from my earliest days just after WWII that I was in fact a citizen of the world, and not just the United States!

Now, George W. Bush and I are the same age, but that is about the only similarity that I can find between us, to be truthful!

As to upbringing, we seem to have been born and raised on separate planets, and in many senses, we were!

George W. Bush was born aristocratic royalty, and I was born a commoner, and the twain remain worlds apart to this day; and I would not trade with him for anything, because, then I would be him, and that is something I just don't wish to be!

Too much lying; too many lies; too much disingenuosness; too much scheming, in his world, and I want nor need no part of any of it!

Been there, saw it, didn't like it, didn't do it, tried unsucessfully to end it, failed, got thrown out, and now I am here, comfortable with who I am and the nothing I have to show for five years of college to get a Master's degree as an engineer, because I can still look people in the face, in the eye, knowing full well that "material comfort" is not all there is to "life", and that the lies people in my community have been told by their government did not come from me, nor did I tolerate or acquiesce to the lies!

Power!

It corrupts!

Absolute power!

That corrupts absolutely!

SO!

Now, the Bush Co.'s are crawling, and what a sight that is, for all the candid world to see!

Does it make me "happy"?

Does it give me "satisfaction" to see this happening?

NO!

It does not!

It takes a certain type of person to get satisfaction out of another's misery, and I am not that person, BUT ....

On another "plane", there certainly is a moral lesson in here, that I am seeing, and in some way, that does give me a degree of "comfort", which does not shame me to say, since "comfort" in no way implies glee or satisfaction with this "humbling" of the Bush Co.'s!

After all, THEY SOWED THE SEEDS; and to be real truthful, I am damn glad to see them having to now eat the meal!

It confirms a sense of justice that I have; that real "justice" is greater than us, and so, can act to restore itself when people such as George W. Bush and his crowd seek to bury it deeply away, forever!

A.B. and jeffmoskin have it exactly right above, and especially A.B., where he says that the Bush Co.'s went out of their way to ridicule and outright threaten ALL IN THE WORLD, including us, who did not simply turn off our brains so as to become mindless and then get ourselves into "lock step" with the lying Bush Co.'s, and this CRUSADE of theirs to take over all the world and re-make it into an image of George W. Bush and the lying Bush Co.'s!

Being as old as I am, George W. Bush should have learned something, AS I DID, from Millhouse "Tricky Dick" Nixxon, but apparently, he did not; OR ...

He sure did not learn the lesson that I saw in all of that Nixxon business, which is that EVEN American presidents cannot get away with being liars!

YES!

An American president was a liar!

And oh my God, the world is now going to end because I said that in here!

Well, malarky to that!

The world is not going to end, and I do not respect Millhouse Nixxon!

And I DO NOT HAVE TO!

My respect must be earned, just the same as I must earn the respect of others!

You earn respect by being worthy of it, and that is not just a function of you saying you are; YOU MUST PROVE IT BY ACTING WORTHY, 24/7, or at least, that is so among the commoners in this nation; but not apparently, among the aristocratic royalty, such as is George W. Bush!

Him, I guess, is just due respect because of the station of his birth, at least in his own mind, AND SO ....

Now, he is crawling!

Well good, George, because you know what?

It is character building, and you sure could use a good dose of that!

So crawl, George, and do it with grace and dignity, and maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something from the experience, and it just might end up making a better person out of you; although while you are down there with all the sycophants and toadies and courtiers and the ilk that inhabits that pestilential city of Washington, D.C., that just might be too much to hope for!

[Livyjr]

The Bush Co.'s are reduced to crawling, in front of all the candid world, BECAUSE OF ALL THEIR STRUT AND SWAGGER AND CONTINUOUS STREAM OF LIES OF YESTERDAY!

And how about that?

Comeuppance, it is called, where I was raised up, here in OUR America!

"Don't get above your raising!"

"Be humble!"

"Walk SOFTLY", especially when the stick you carry is a big one!

But these are all lessons and admonitions for a lesser man than George W. Bush, apparently, and so, now it appears that he is going to have to learn them, as an American president, when he really should have learned these things as a child!

So crawl, George, and do it with grace and dignity, and maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something from the experience, and it just might end up making a better person out of you; although while you are down there with all the sycophants and toadies and courtiers and the ilk that inhabits that pestilential city of Washington, D.C., that just might be too much to hope for!

And while the virtual ink is barely dry on these words right above here, about the Bush Co.'s having to do some "crawling" here, we have this following concerning the alleged present-day activities of the alleged "SAVIOR OF ALL THE WORLD" and the "SMITER OF ALL THAT IS EVIL THEREIN", or almost all of it, anyway, as regards the "smashing to smithereens" of the insurgency in Iraq by the Bush Co. crowd:

Top Stories - Reuters

"Report: U.S. in Secret Talks with Iraqi Insurgents"

Sun Feb 20,10:11 AM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. diplomats and intelligence officers are conducting secret talks with Iraq's Sunni insurgents on ways to end fighting there, Time magazine reported on Sunday, citing Pentagon and other sources.

The Bush administration has said it would not negotiate with Iraqi fighters and there is no authorized dialogue but the U.S. is having "back-channel" communications with certain insurgents, unidentified Washington and Iraqi sources told the magazine.

The magazine cited a secret meeting between two members of the U.S. military and an Iraqi negotiator, a middle-aged former member of Saddam Hussein's regime and the senior representative of what he called the nationalist insurgency.

A U.S. officer tried to get names of other insurgent leaders while the Iraqi complained the new Shi'ite-dominated government was being controlled by Iran, according to an account of the meeting provided by the Iraqi negotiator.

"We are ready to work with you," the Iraqi negotiator said, according to Time.

Iraqi insurgent leaders not aligned with al Qaeda ally Abu Mousab al-Zarqawi told the magazine several nationalist groups composed of what the Pentagon calls "former regime elements" have become open to negotiating.

The insurgents said their aim was to establish a political identity that can represent disenfranchised Sunnis.

The White House had no immediate comment on the report.

Controversial Iraqi politician Ahmad Chalabi said on Sunday the outcome of any negotiations between insurgents and the U.S. military would not be binding for a new Iraqi government.

"I know nothing about such negotiations."

"Those negotiations will in no way bind the elected government of Iraq," he said.

"The issue here is not negotiating with the killers who are killing the Iraqi people," he added in an interview with ABC's "This Week."

[Livyjr]

And while the virtual ink is barely dry on these words right above here, about the Bush Co.'s having to do some "crawling" here, we have this following concerning the alleged present-day activities of the alleged "SAVIOR OF ALL THE WORLD" and the "SMITER OF ALL THAT IS EVIL THEREIN", or almost all of it, anyway, as regards the "smashing to smithereens" of the insurgency in Iraq by the Bush Co. crowd:

Top Stories - Reuters

"Report: U.S. in Secret Talks with Iraqi Insurgents"

Sun Feb 20,10:11 AM ET   

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. diplomats and intelligence officers are conducting secret talks with Iraq's Sunni insurgents on ways to end fighting there, Time magazine reported on Sunday, citing Pentagon and other sources.
 
Controversial Iraqi politician Ahmad Chalabi said on Sunday the outcome of any negotiations between insurgents and the U.S. military would not be binding for a new Iraqi government.

"I know nothing about such negotiations."

"Those negotiations will in no way bind the elected government of Iraq," he said.

"The issue here is not negotiating with the killers who are killing the Iraqi people," he added in an interview with ABC's "This Week."

Somewhere, there is a story out there about a "program" of bombing attacks allegedly sponsored by the CIA, AGAINST Iraqi citizens BEFORE Saddam was ever removed, and as I recall that story, which I had posted in the John Kerry forum, now defunct, I think this Chalabi was implicated in that program, where a movie theater was bombed, and a bus, as well, according to my recollections!

And I am searching for that story right now, but in the meantime, we have this on this Ahmad Chalbi, who now somehow is becoming the "George W. Bush" of Iraq, despite having been rejected in favor of this Allawi puppet, who is now on his way out, too, from all appearances:

International News

"Pentagon stops payments to Iraq’s Chalabi - Funding to end for exile whose motives were in doubt"

May 18: Ahmed Chalabi, a key player in the Bush administration's plans to go to war against Iraq, has been fired by the Pentagon.

MSNBC News Services
Updated: 8:09 p.m. ET May 18, 2004

The Pentagon has stopped funding Ahmad Chalabi, the Iraqi exile it once hoped might help lead Iraq but whose intelligence reports and motives were doubted elsewhere in Washington, U.S. officials said Tuesday.

The Pentagon had been giving Chalabi’s Iraqi National Congress roughly $340,000 a month.

A U.S. defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the Pentagon made its May payment to the INC, and that it was the final one.

The official said there has been no decision on whether there would be any further Pentagon relationship with Chalabi’s organization.

“The nature of any future interactions with the INC is undetermined at this time,” the official said.

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said cutting off money to the INC “was a decision that was made in light of the process of transferring sovereignty to the Iraqi people.”

“We felt it was no longer appropriate for us to continue funding in that fashion."

"There’s been some very valuable intelligence that’s been gathered through that process that’s been very valuable for our forces."

"But we will seek to obtain that in the future through normal intelligence channels,” Wolfowitz told a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing.

Under review for weeks

U.S. officials for weeks have said the U.S. government was debating cutting off the INC, saying they had questions about the intelligence it provided as well as about whether Chalabi was motivated chiefly by a desire for power.

Chalabi, a member of the Iraqi National Council, has pressed recently for full Iraq control over the country’s security forces and criticized U.S. tactics.

An exile who lived abroad for more than four decades, Chalabi was convicted in absentia of bank fraud in 1992 by a military court in Jordan, where he had founded a bank that failed.

He says the charges were politically motivated.

The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

end quotes

Never a dull moment with this Bush Co. crowd in power down there in Washington, D.C.!

Never a dull moment at all, and that is the problem these days, with this knee-jerking Bush Co. crowd!

No dull moments mean no balance, no stability, and in the long run, as Mr. Sun Tze said a long time ago, and as military experts of OUR own have confirmed since, NO NATION EVER BENEFITS from a protracted struggle; such as the inept, knee-jerking Bush Co.'s now have us embroiled in over there in Iraq, where the original mission was simply to steal the oil from Saddam!

Only the special interests ever benefit from protracted struggles; and that is not us; elsewise, we would have no reason to be in here talking about it!

We'd be on the Riviera or something, living life large!

If we could live with ourselves, that is, and I guess that crowd can; elsewise the crap would have stopped long before this, but it has not, and likely will not, because too much money is still at stake, and this crowd has a powerful greed; the Conquistador's Disease, that only gold can cure!

[Livyjr]

Top Stories - Reuters

"Report: U.S. in Secret Talks with Iraqi Insurgents"

Sun Feb 20,10:11 AM ET   

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. diplomats and intelligence officers are conducting secret talks with Iraq's Sunni insurgents on ways to end fighting there, Time magazine reported on Sunday, citing Pentagon and other sources.
 
Controversial Iraqi politician Ahmad Chalabi said on Sunday the outcome of any negotiations between insurgents and the U.S. military would not be binding for a new Iraqi government.

"I know nothing about such negotiations."

"Those negotiations will in no way bind the elected government of Iraq," he said.

"The issue here is not negotiating with the killers who are killing the Iraqi people," he added in an interview with ABC's "This Week."

And my apologies for my faulty memory here!

It is the puppet Allawi who was implicated in this alleged CIA bombing program against the Iraqis, BEFORE the Bush Co. invasion to steal the oil!

Published on Wednesday, June 9, 2004 by the New York Times

"Ex-C.I.A. Aides Say Iraq Leader Helped Agency in 90's Attacks"

by Joel Brinkley

WASHINGTON, June 8 — Iyad Allawi, now the designated prime minister of Iraq, ran an exile organization intent on deposing Saddam Hussein that sent agents into Baghdad in the early 1990's to plant bombs and sabotage government facilities under the direction of the C.I.A., several former intelligence officials say.

Dr. Allawi's group, the Iraqi National Accord, used car bombs and other explosive devices...

Ex-CIA officer Robert Baer, recalled that a bombing during that period "blew up a school bus; schoolchildren were killed."

Dr. Allawi's group, the Iraqi National Accord, used car bombs and other explosive devices smuggled into Baghdad from northern Iraq, the officials said.

Evaluations of the effectiveness of the bombing campaign varied, although the former officials interviewed agreed that it never threatened Saddam Hussein's rule.

No public records of the bombing campaign exist, and the former officials said their recollections were in many cases sketchy, and in some cases contradictory.

They could not even recall exactly when it occurred, though the interviews made it clear it was between 1992 and 1995.

The Iraqi government at the time claimed that the bombs, including one it said exploded in a movie theater, resulted in many civilian casualties.

But whether the bombings actually killed any civilians could not be confirmed because, as a former C.I.A. official said, the United States had no significant intelligence sources in Iraq then.

One former Central Intelligence Agency officer who was based in the region, Robert Baer, recalled that a bombing during that period "blew up a school bus; schoolchildren were killed."

Mr. Baer, a critic of the Iraq war, said he did not recall which resistance group might have set off that bomb.

Other former intelligence officials said Dr. Allawi's organization was the only resistance group involved in bombings and sabotage at that time.

But one former senior intelligence official recalled that "bombs were going off to no great effect."

"I don't recall very much killing of anyone," the official said.

When Dr. Allawi was picked as interim prime minister last week, he said his first priority would be to improve the security situation by stopping bombings and other insurgent attacks in Iraq — an idea several former officials familiar with his past said they found "ironic."

"Send a thief to catch a thief," said Kenneth Pollack, who was an Iran-Iraq military analyst for the C.I.A. during the early 1990's and recalled the sabotage campaign.

Dr. Allawi declined to respond to repeated requests for comment, made Monday and Tuesday through his Washington representative, Patrick N. Theros.

The former intelligence officials, while confirming C.I.A. involvement in the bombing campaign, would not say how, exactly, the agency had supported it.

An American intelligence officer who worked with Dr. Allawi in the early 1990's noted that "no one had any problem with sabotage in Baghdad back then," adding, "I don't think anyone could have known how things would turn out today."

Dr. Allawi was a favorite of the C.I.A. and other government agencies 10 years ago, largely because he served as a counterpoint to Ahmad Chalabi, a more prominent exile leader.

He "was highly regarded by those involved in Iraqi operations," Samuel R. Berger, who was national security adviser in the Clinton administration, said in an interview.

"Unlike Chalabi, he was someone who was trusted by the regional governments."

"He was less flamboyant, less promotional."

The C.I.A. recruited Dr. Allawi in 1992, former intelligence officials said.

At that time, the former senior intelligence official said, "what we were doing was dealing with anyone" in the Iraqi opposition "we could get our hands on."

Mr. Chalabi began working with the agency in 1991, and the idea, the official added, was to "decrease the proportion of Chalabi's role in what we were doing by finding others to work with."

In 1991, Dr. Allawi was associated with a former Iraqi official, Salih Omar Ali al-Tikriti, whom the United States viewed as unsavory.

He and Dr. Allawi founded the Iraqi National Accord in 1990.

Both were former supporters of the Iraqi government.

Some intelligence officials have also suggested that Dr. Allawi, while he was still a member of the ruling Baath Party in the early 1970's, may have spied on Iraqi students studying in London.

Mr. Tikriti was said to have supervised public hangings in Baghdad.

The former officials said the C.I.A. would not work with Dr. Allawi until he severed his relationship with Mr. Tikriti, which he did in 1992.

Several intelligence officials said the agency's broad goal immediately after the Persian Gulf war in 1991 was to recruit opposition leaders who had senior contacts inside Iraq, something Dr. Allawi claimed.

The Iraqi National Accord was made up of former senior Iraqi military and political leaders who had fled the country and were said to retain connections to colleagues inside the government.

"Iyad had contact with people the agency thought would be useful to us in the future," Mr. Pollack said.

"He seemed to have ties to respected Sunni figures that no one else had."

The Hussein government was dominated by Sunni Muslims.

The bombing and sabotage campaign, the former senior intelligence official said, "was a test more than anything else, to demonstrate capability."

Another former intelligence officer who was involved in Iraqi affairs recalled that the bombings "were an option we considered and used."

Dr. Allawi's group was used, he added, "because Chalabi never had any sort of internal organization that could carry it out," adding, "We would never have asked him to carry out sabotage."

The varied assessments of the bombing campaign's effectiveness are understandable, the former senior intelligence official said, because "I would not attribute to the U.S. sufficient intelligence resources then so that we could perceive if an effective bombing campaign was under way."

Dr. Allawi is not believed to have ever spoken in public about the bombing campaign.

But one Iraqi National Accord officer did.

In 1996, Amneh al-Khadami, who described himself as the chief bomb maker for the Iraqi National Accord and as being based in Sulaimaniya, in northern Iraq, recorded a videotape in which he talked of the bombing campaign and complained that he was being shortchanged money and supplies.

Two former intelligence officers confirmed the existence of the videotape.

Mr. Khadami said that "we blew up a car, and we were supposed to get $2,000" but got only $1,000, according to an account in the British newspaper The Independent in 1997.

The newspaper had obtained a copy of the tape.

Mr. Khadami, it added, also said he worried that the C.I.A. might view him as "too much the terrorist."

end quotes

And didn't I just say something about never a dull moment when these Bush Co.'s are around?

[Livyjr]

Top Stories - Reuters

"Report: U.S. in Secret Talks with Iraqi Insurgents"

Sun Feb 20,10:11 AM ET   

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. diplomats and intelligence officers are conducting secret talks with Iraq's Sunni insurgents on ways to end fighting there, Time magazine reported on Sunday, citing Pentagon and other sources.
 
The Bush administration has said it would not negotiate with Iraqi fighters and there is no authorized dialogue but the U.S. is having "back-channel" communications with certain insurgents, unidentified Washington and Iraqi sources told the magazine.

The magazine cited a secret meeting between two members of the U.S. military and an Iraqi negotiator, a middle-aged former member of Saddam Hussein's regime and the senior representative of what he called the nationalist insurgency.

A U.S. officer tried to get names of other insurgent leaders while the Iraqi complained the new Shi'ite-dominated government was being controlled by Iran, according to an account of the meeting provided by the Iraqi negotiator.

"We are ready to work with you," the Iraqi negotiator said, according to Time.

And where does the truth really lie, here, with respect to this "insurgency" in Iraq?

Well, if it is like Viet Nam, there are negotiations going on, as the above article says, and there are operations also going on, to crush them!

Who will win?

Stay tuned:

International News

U.S. soldiers and local residents look into the wreckage of a car in Mosul on Saturday, after explosions that killed one insurgent and wounded two others inside.

"U.S., Iraqis in new operation to curb insurgency - Shiites in mourning after 3 days of attacks leave nearly 100 dead"

The Associated Press
Updated: 8:03 a.m. ET Feb. 20, 2005

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. Marines and Iraqi security forces launched a joint operation Sunday to crack down on insurgents in troubled cities west of Baghdad.

Meanwhile, Shiites stung by two days of suicide bombings that left nearly 100 dead attended services in fortified funeral tents on Sunday in hopes of avoiding a third straight day of attacks.

Shiite politicians, poised to take power for the first time in Iraq’s modern history, have vowed not to allow the bloodshed to begin a civil war despite attacks Friday and Saturday that left at least 91 dead and more than 100 wounded.

“We built barriers, barricades and we are searching everybody who enters the funeral so that we do not meet the fate of my friend,” Sattar Wahhab, a 35-year-old worker, said outside a funeral tent in western Baghdad.

Although 50 chairs were set up inside the tent in Baghdad’s Bayaa district, only 10 people turned up.

On Saturday, a suicide bomber entered a similar tent in the same neighborhood and blew himself up, killing three people.

Attackers had also targeted such ceremonies on Saturday.

U.S., Iraqis launch operations

U.S. Marines and Iraqi security forces launched a joint operation in several cities in the Anbar province, including the provincial capital, Ramadi, where authorities imposed a curfew from 8 p.m. to 6 a.m., the military said in a statement.

“The security measures in and around the provincial capital are designed to ensure the safety of the populace by controlling access into the city,” the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force said in a statement.

Ramadi, about 70 miles west of Baghdad, has long been a center of insurgent activity.

Iraq’s major Sunni Arab tribes and political parties met in Baghdad to discuss their role in Iraq’s new government.

The tribes are apparently looking for a role in the new government and drafting of Iraq’s new constitution.

Iraqi President Ghazi Mashal Ajil al-Yawer, a Sunni Muslim and head of the Iraqis list that won five seats in the Jan. 30 election, was to attend.

Sunnis largely stayed away from the polls, many because they feared threats of retribution from insurgents.

Iyad al-Sameria, a senior leader of the Iraqi Islamic party, a Sunni group that boycotted the elections, said his party wasn’t invited to the meeting.

Iraq’s interim national security advisor, Mouwafak al-Rubaie, said the recent suicide bombings were attempts “to create a religious war within Iraq."

"Iraqis will not allow this to happen, Iraqis will stand united as Iraqis foremost, and Iraq will not fall into sectarian war.”

Al-Roubaie’s Shiite clergy-backed United Iraqi Alliance, which received nearly half the election votes, was to decide early in the week on their choice for prime minister.

On Saturday, eight suicide bombers struck in quick succession in a wave of attacks that killed 55 people as Iraqi Shiites commemorated the seventh century death of a leader of their Muslim sect.

Similar attacks Friday killed 36 people and injured dozens.

It was the second year running that violence marred Ashoura, the holiest day of the Shiite religious calendar, but the two-day spree had a smaller death toll than the 181 killed in twin bombings in Baghdad and the holy city of Karbala a year ago.

Insurgents appeared to have struck at will in some areas despite stepped-up security that was prompted by last year’s deadly Ashoura blasts.

But in Karbala, the Shiite holy city 50 miles south of Baghdad, no violence was reported on Saturday.

The dead this year included a U.S. soldier who was killed in Baghdad when American troops responded to calls for assistance from Iraqi forces unable to cope with a slew of attacks.

The U.S. command on Sunday announced the death of a U.S. Marine killed in action Saturday during a military operation in Anbar.

It gave no other details.

In violence Sunday:

In Baghdad, a roadside bomb targeting a convoy of Iraqi troops killed two Iraqi National Guardsmen, police 1st Lt. Ali Hussein al-Hamadani said.

In the same area, coalition gunners in a convoy opened fire on a car that approached too closely, killing an Iraqi man, said police 1st Lt., Muthana Hussein.

In the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, police found two corpses Saturday of men thought to be former police officers who’d been shot in the head, a morgue director said Sunday.

Six charred bodies were discovered several days ago floating in the Tigris River in Suwayrah, about 25 miles south of the capital, hospital officials in Kut said.

The six men were each found handcuffed and shot in the head, chest and back.

Their identities were not known.

[big sky brad]

Holy Snow Blowers!!

You have to check this out -

In Secretly Taped Conversations, Glimpses of the Future President

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/politics...artner=homepage

In this article Bush admits to using marijuana and says that he didn't ever deny using cocaine.

Today on the television news stations, CNN and FOX, they are all talking about these tapes. Because Bush used drugs in the 70's and would never come clean about it.

Now we know why Bush was ordered to fly trainers after he was qualified to fly other jets in the Air National Guard.
Now we know why Bush was later grounded.
Now we know why Bush eventually lost his wings.

I believe the Air Force's recruitment slogan at that time in the late 60's was "Fly High - Join the Air Force" - but I'm positive they meant their pilots should use a jet, not some nose candy!

Can you say "Sky Pilot"!?

Man, I wouldn't trust Bush to drive my lawn tractor!

[jeffmoskin]

Holy Snow Blowers!!

You have to check this out -

In Secretly Taped Conversations, Glimpses of the Future President

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/politics...artner=homepage

In this article Bush admits to using marijuana and says that he didn't ever deny using cocaine.

Today on the television news stations, CNN and FOX, they are all talking about these tapes. Because Bush used drugs in the 70's and would never come clean about it.

Now we know why Bush was ordered to fly trainers after he was qualified to fly other jets in the Air National Guard.
Now we know why Bush was later grounded.
Now we know why Bush eventually lost his wings.

I believe the Air Force's recruitment slogan at that time in the late 60's was "Fly High - Join the Air Force" - but I'm positive they meant their pilots should use a jet, not some nose candy!

Can you say "Sky Pilot"!?

Man, I wouldn't trust Bush to drive my lawn tractor!

Bush never exhaled.

[Livyjr]

Holy Snow Blowers!!

You have to check this out -

In Secretly Taped Conversations, Glimpses of the Future President

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/20/politics...artner=homepage

In this article Bush admits to using marijuana and says that he didn't ever deny using cocaine.

I believe the Air Force's recruitment slogan at that time in the late 60's was "Fly High - Join the Air Force" - but I'm positive they meant their pilots should use a jet, not some nose candy!

Man, I wouldn't trust Bush to drive my lawn tractor!

And now, this man who you are wise to keep completely away from your lawn tractor, AND YOUR lawn; this man has control of some 3700 nuclear weapons, in various sizes and shapes and delivery system options, and my thought, Mr. Big Sky, is what if his "enemies" in his head are from some kind of "withdrawal symptoms" or delirium tremens, or something like that!

"Delirium tremens" From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Delirium tremens (colloquially, the DTs) is a condition almost invariably associated with complete alcohol withdrawal in an individual with a reported history of long-term alcohol consumption.

Symptoms

The symptoms include tremors and intense visual hallucinations (for example, drawings on wallpaper that the patient would perceive as giant spiders ready to attack her or him).

Delirium tremens typically manifests about 18 to 24 hours after initial withdrawal.

Since schizophrenic hallucinations are traditionally auditory and often of religious or police contents, the presence of intense visual hallucinations can indicate a diagnosis of delirium tremens.

The condition is caused by the effect of alcohol on the benzodiazepine-GABAa-chloride receptor complex for the inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA.

Constant consumption of alcoholic beverages down regulates these receptors; when alcohol is no longer consumed, there are not as many receptors for GABA to bind to.

As GABA normally inhibits an action potential formation, fewer receptors mean that sympathetic activation is unopposed.

Treatment

Treatment is with benzodiazepines, such as diazepam, which enhance binding of GABA to the receptors.

end quotes

Can you imagine what will happen if George W. Bush sees "giant spiders" on the walls of the White House, and determines that it is some kind of "tay-rist" plot by Saddam Hussein to get him and his pap?

Why, he just might call in a nuclear attack against those "giant spiders", and then where will we all be?

And your lawn, as well, Mr. Big Sky!

Serious stuff, here!

Serious, indeed!

But not serious enough, apparently, to keep this man from being re-relected as president of OUR America, and there is the real telling statement; about us as a nation!

[Livyjr]

And speaking of "hits" to OUR national economy as a result of this protracted struggle that the inept Bush Co.'s have us embroiled in over there in Iraq, this next story is of some interest, as these base closings, IF THEY ACTUALLY OCCUR, are going to have an economic impact, here in OUR America!

For as the Bush Co.'s close bases here, they are really shifting the money, or "exporting" the money, to overseas locations, where the plan is to have MORE BASES:

White House - AP Cabinet & State

"More Military Bases in U.S. to Be Closed"

54 minutes ago

By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Safe for a decade, military bases in the United States face an uncertain future.

The Pentagon plans to shut down or scale back some of the 425 facilities, the first such effort to save money in 10 years.

The downsizing is part of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld's long-term transformation of the Cold War-era military.

The Pentagon chief argues that closing or consolidating stateside facilities could save $7 billion annually and that the money would be better spent improving fighting capabilities amid threats from terrorists.

"The department continues to maintain more military bases and facilities than are needed, consuming and diverting valuable personnel and resources," Rumsfeld recently told lawmakers.

Shrinking the domestic network of Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps bases is a certain source of savings.

It also is a high-stakes political fight because it affects local economies in congressional districts.

Lawmakers have resisted efforts to shutter their bases, challenging past base closing rounds and lobbying hard to keep their installation off the final list.

"It's the perfect example of good policy and good politics not fitting in the same room together," said Christopher Hellman, an analyst with the Center for Arms Control and Nonproliferation in Washington.

"Conceptually, lawmakers buy the argument that base closures are important to make sure they are spending resources wisely."

"But they are reticent of closing bases in their cities because of job losses," Hellman said.

Rumsfeld has estimated that extra base capacity is at nearly 25 percent.

But Republican lawmakers said the secretary recently told them that the cuts will not be as deep, in part because the military needs a home for 70,000 troops returning from Europe.

The Pentagon says that all domestic bases are under consideration, but clearly some are more vulnerable than others.

Topping the list are aging facilities, small bases used by only one of the four services and large installations whose missions, training, ammunition or weapons are outdated.

The Northeast is home to many bases configured to defend against the Soviet threat.

They could absorb the biggest hit now that many former Soviet bloc nations are U.S. allies.

Congress authorized the fifth round of Base Realignment and Closure — commonly known as BRAC — last year.

The first deadline in the yearlong process is March 15, when President Bush must name a nine-member commission that will review a list of closures that Rumsfeld will propose by May.

Congressional leaders have submitted their six recommendations.

Bush will make his three choices known shortly.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., selected retired Gen. John G. Coburn, a former Army deputy chief of staff, and retired Navy Adm. Harold W. Gehman Jr., a former supreme allied commander of the Atlantic.

House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., offered former Rep. James V. Hansen, R-Utah, and former Transportation Secretary Samuel Skinner.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada picked former Democratic Rep. James Bilbray, D-Nev.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., recommended Phillip E. Coyle, a former Pentagon official and a defense researcher.

As the process gets under way, lawmakers and communities are stepping up efforts to show their bases are essential.

They also are lobbying for new missions and projects for their facilities to make the bases less attractive for closure.

Congress authorized the closures last year, rejecting a delay until 2007.

Still, some Republicans and Democrats continue to fight.

"I will try to stop it at any point and in any way I possibly can," said Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss.

Closing bases while the country is at war is "the worst possible timing," Lott says.

He lobbied hard during previous rounds to keep open the Meridian Naval Air Station in Mississippi, which barely escaped closure.

It could be targeted again this year.

Other lawmakers say the round will go forward.

"We had a debate."

"We voted."

"We had a majority say we're going forward."

"How could you possibly reverse it?"

"It would be crazy," said Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

Republican Sen. John Warner of Virginia, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said it was essential for the military to eliminate "those bases, structures, buildings, compounds that aren't on the very edge of what we need to defend ourselves."

The Pentagon estimates that previous closures in 1988, 1991, 1993 and 1995 eliminated 20 percent of domestic bases and saved about $16.7 billion through 2001, and roughly $7 billion annually since.

Congress has refused repeated requests by the Pentagon to close more bases since 1995.

Part of the reason was lingering Republican distrust after President Clinton moved to ease the economic impact from two base closings in vote-rich California and Texas just before his re-election campaign in 1996.

In 2001, with Clinton out of office, the Pentagon nearly got its wish for closures in 2003.

But after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Congress delayed the closures until this year.
___

On the Net:

Defense Department background on base closings: http://www.defenselink.mil/brac/

[Livyjr]

And while we are on this topic of where the money to fuel OUR national economy is, or is going, we have this following, which ties in actually, with a post that jeffmoskin made over in "A.B.'s Corner", concerning "capitalism", which some today seem to take as a "God-given" requirement, here in OUR America, which it clearly is not!

America is a Republic with liberty and justice for all!

Nowhere is it said, that I am aware of, anyway, that America is a capitalist nation with complete and total immunity for multi-national corporations to "buy" our government, poison us for profits, and generally screw the "be-jaysus" out of us, for their finacial gain, and yet, THEY DO:

Business - AP

"U.S. Companies Bring Overseas Profits Home"

Sat Feb 19, 1:21 PM ET

By MARY DALRYMPLE, AP Tax Writer

WASHINGTON - Led by drug makers, American companies have started announcing their plans to use a temporary tax break and shift back to the United States billions of dollars in profits that have been stashed abroad.

An incentive to invest in the U.S. economy — that's how lawmakers promoted the short-term relief that lets companies avoid as much as 85 percent of the taxes they might otherwise pay on earnings abroad.

Critics say there is no assurance that new jobs will result.

"There are some alleged restrictions that are easy to get around," said Robert McIntyre, director of Citizens for Tax Justice.

Johnson & Johnson, which makes a broad range of health care products, plans to return $11 billion to the country.

Dell, the computer manufacturer, has $4 billion to repatriate.

Kellogg, known for its cereal and snacks, wants to return $1 billion to domestic operations.

The announcements stem from a law passed in October that allows companies, for one year, to pay a reduced 5.25 percent tax on overseas earnings returned to the United States.

The profits otherwise face tax rates as high as 35 percent.

Private estimates suggest that companies could bring more than $300 billion in overseas earnings back into the United States.

Few companies have said how they will use the money once it starts to stream back into domestic operations.

Allen Sinai, president and chief economist at Decision Economics, estimated that companies might be on track to announce a combined $100 billion repatriation during the first quarter of the year.

He estimated the influx of cash could generate 400,000 to 600,000 jobs over the next few years and boost economic growth this year.

"We're on the way to quite a bit of money coming back from overseas," Sinai said.

Lil Mills, a tax professor at the University of Arizona, said the bricks-and-mortar effect of the incentive will not be observed for some time.

"Does it really create new U.S. manufacturing jobs is a longer term economic study," she said.

The majority of lawmakers believed strongly enough in the idea that they rejected efforts by a few colleagues to put tighter reins on businesses and restrict them to using the money for wages, employee pensions, capital improvements and research.

Lawmakers wrote a "purposely nebulous" law that would give businesses lots of flexibility to invest in the U.S. economy, said Greg Kelly, a Washington analyst at Susquehanna Financial Group.

No part of the law requires companies to show they have increased spending in the areas where they devote money brought in under the law.

Repatriated money can displace dollars already spent on the approved uses, freeing up those funds for other purposes.

"At the end of the day, what was most important for Congress was this money would come back domestically," Kelly said.

Susquehanna surveyed large companies that lobbied for the law.

The firm estimated that as much as $320 billion, about two-thirds of the money qualifying for the tax break, could be returned.

"Regarding job creation, we would argue it's more important to look at the longer term effects," Kelly said.

The law requires that companies reinvest the money in their U.S. operations according to a plan approved by the company's top executive and board of directors.

The Treasury Department last month ruled that the money can be used to hire and train workers, make capital investments, conduct research and development, advertise and market products or stabilize the company's finances, among other uses.

The money cannot be used for executive compensation, shareholder dividends, stock buybacks, portfolio investments or tax payments.

In the first wave of announcements, companies were generally guarded about their plans for the money.

Kellogg executives told investors the law gives the company the flexibility to look at developing new products, advertising or buying other food companies.

Dell indicated an interest in research and development, marketing or new facilities.
___

On the Net:

Information on Public Law, the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004, can be found at http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/publaw/108publ.html

[Livyjr]

And here, I must admit that once again, I have been over there in "A.B.s Corner", sitting around that stove, where the subject was just "politics", and nastiness!

My statement was that where there are people, there are all things that people carry with them, including politics and nastiness!

And so, even in here, this forum, I mean, and hopefully not this particular thread; or in church for that matter, you are going to find both politics and its seeming concomitant, nastiness.

Everywhere people are, they are, or can be, BUT .....!

So what, is what I say!

Carry on!

Do that which you are capable of doing, and move along, IN YOUR OWN LIFE!

The moments we have down here on earth are measured, and whether you use them or not, still, they are gone!

And so, why be bothered about nasty people?

Just don't be one yourself, and keep it down to 99% of the population, instead of making it a perfect one hundred percent by joining the other 99 who are themselves nasty!

And if you are not nasty, who knows?

You just might start a revolution that will transform the world!

And that is not a bad thing, actually!

[Livyjr]

Carry on!

Do that which you are capable of doing, and move along, IN YOUR OWN LIFE!

And that brings me back to a topic that we are monitoring in here, which is Mr. George W. Bush going to Europe to call for unity, when he has been probably the biggest factor in the last fifty years in creating disharmony, not only here in OUR America, but all throughout the world as well, as though he were Gilgamesh reincarnated!

Mr. Bush is in Brussels right now, or at least he was, because I heard him on the radio a little bit ago, speaking from there, and so .....

In this following article, Mr. Bush is calling for unity!

Well, as jeffmoskin and A.B. have said above, and I concur, his call for unity just might be a little late, AS IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS, he has unified the world and at least half of the people in OUR America, AGAINST HIM AND HIS!

BUT .....

As we really have no choice now, we will continue to see where this all goes, this attempt now by the Bush Co.'s at "diplomacy", as we are all along for the ride, whether we like it or not; just as was the case for ALL the people of the candid world when Hitler himself, the original Hitler, that is, as opposed to this present "look-alike" that we are stuck with over here in OUR America in the form and guise of Mr. George W. Bush; when Hitler was in power.

SO!

Stay tuned!

The future which is at stake here just might be yours, and your childrens' and your grandchildrens'!

Europe - AP

"Bush Faces Iraq Critics, Calls for Unity"

1 hour, 27 minutes ago

By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer

BRUSSELS, Belgium - President Bush dismissed the rift with Europe over Iraq as a "passing disagreement of governments" on Monday and urged greater trans-Atlantic cooperation, including more support for the fledgling Iraqi government.

"Now is the time for the established democracies to give tangible political, economic and security assistance to the world's newest democracy," Bush said in a speech intended for both European and American consumption.

Bush began a five-day European trip in Brussels, home to both the European Union and NATO.

He also planned to dine privately here with French President Jacques Chirac, one of his most outspoken critics on the Iraq war.

Despite his appeal to bury past differences, divisions remain over postwar Iraq, how to confront Iran's nuclear ambitions, a European proposal to end a 15-year arms embargo with China and a treaty on global warming spurned by Washington.

Aides conceded that much work needed to be done.

But the president's words were clearly conciliatory.

And his advisers said it was hoped they would lead to greater, and cooler, dialogue.

"As past debates fade, and great duties become clear, let us begin a new era of trans-Atlantic unity," Bush said in a prepared speech.

Excerpts were released before delivery.

"No temporary debate, no passing disagreement of governments, no power on earth will ever divide us," he said.

The site for Bush's speech was the Concert Noble, a 19th-century government building used for banquets and meetings.

"Our greatest opportunity, and our immediate goal, is peace in the Middle East," said Bush, who supports a separate Palestinian state alongside Israel.

"We also know that a free and peaceful Palestine can add to the momentum of reform throughout the broader Middle East."

Before the speech, the president made a courtesy call on King Albert II and Queen Paola and Belgium Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt.

Later, he was to meet with NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer.

"Great to be back," Bush exclaimed as he walked across a courtyard toward the office of the prime minister, who opposed Bush's decision to launch a war in Iraq.

Inside, they posed for pictures, and Bush talked about Verhofstadt's biking skills.

"He's a great biker," Bush said.

"I need a little training."

Bush attends meetings of both the European Union and NATO on Tuesday, visits Germany on Wednesday and goes to Slovakia on Thursday.

In an interview with The Associated Press on Sunday, Slovak Prime Minister Mikulas Dzurinda said he regretted the rift that has widened between some European countries and the United States over Iraq.

"It was not easy to decide to go to Iraq, to Afghanistan ... but reality shows that it was the right decision at the right time," Dzurinda said, refusing to budge in his support of Washington.

In calling for more "tangible" support for Iraq, Bush said, "All nations now have an interest in the success of a free and democratic Iraq, which will fight terror, be a beacon of freedom, and be a source of true stability in the region."

While in Slovakia, Bush will meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Putin has alarmed Western leaders with his crackdown on political dissent and rolling back of some democratic reforms.

The president reprised some of the themes he sounded in his inaugural address when he began his second term in January, vowing to work to spread democracy and freedom through the world.

"We ... have a call beyond our comfort: we must raise our sights to the wider world," Bush said.

"Our ideals and our interests lead in the same direction."

"By bringing progress and hope to nations in need, we can improve many lives, and lift up falling states, and remove the causes and sanctuaries of terror."

An alliance of 88 environmental, human rights, peace and other groups planned two days of protests in Brussels to demand "no European complicity" in a U.S.-designed world order.

Brussels police readied 2,500 officers — 1,000 more than the usual number for the three or four summit meetings that bring European Union leaders to the Belgian capital every year.

Washington strongly opposes Europe's plans to lift the arms embargo against China.

Bush has been cool toward Europe's negotiations to persuade Iran to abandon its suspected nuclear weapons program.

The White House prefers asking the U.N. Security Council to punish Tehran.

Hard feelings linger from Bush's opposition to the Kyoto climate change treaty and the International Criminal Court.

An issue where the allies may find common ground is a demand that Syria withdraw its forces from Lebanon — a declaration prompted by the assassination of a former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, in a massive bombing in Beirut last week.

[Livyjr]

LIFE!

In OUR America!

Who has it?

And why?

These are some of the issues, or themes, perhaps, that we look at and delve into in here, in this thread, and sometimes, life in OUR America has a "pleasantness" about it that we all cherish, and sometimes ......

Well, let us just say that life is not always a rose garden, for whatever reasons that just may be!

And as to life, EACH OF US REALLY HAS IT, in OUR own ways, which is what this "LIBERTY" and "JUSTICE" business here in OUR America is really all about.

Now, understanding this liberty and justice business is hard work, or at least it seems to be so, to me, anyway, who has been trying to fathom its "roots" for many years now, because, while "LIBERTY" and "JUSTICE" are concepts that many people talk about, their absence on this earth of ours is probably more prevalent than their presence, which is why America revolted against England back in 1776!

SO?

What is "LIBERTY"?

Well, here is maybe the most basic definition, which is where any discussion of "LIBERTY" must really start, and out of this, will come "JUSTICE", or at least, the road to where JUSTICE might, or should be found, is pointed out, to the wayfarer through life.

NATURAL LIBERTY: The power of acting as one thinks fit, without any restraint or control, unless by the law of nature. The right which nature gives to all mankind of disposing of their persons and property after the manner they judge most consistent with their happiness, on condition of their acting within the limits of the law of nature, and so as not to interfere with an equal exercise of the same rights by other men, and women!

And so as not to interfere with an equal exercise of the same rights by other men, and women?

BUT ......

Doesn't that then strip us of power?

If we cannot interfere with the rights of others to be who they want or need to be, so as to "enjoy" themselves an alleged right which nature allegedly gives to all mankind of disposing of their persons and property after the manner they judge most consistent with their happiness, then, why, aren't we all just equal?

Equal to an Iraqi, maybe, or a French man or woman?

Equal to a Palestinean?

Or a Vietnamese?

And who wants that?

What is the sense of being equal, if it strips you of power and mastery over others?

SO?

Maybe we should ALL "get real", and just toss out this liberty business, here in OUR America, for once and for all, and give up the false pretexts that we really have it, or are for it, as George W. Bush is out there now trying to convince the candid world, after four years of hypocrisy and falseness on his part that clearly demonstrate its complete and total absence as a concept down there in Washington, D.C.?

After all, if George W. Bush and his pack of Republicans and NEW CONS have no real intentions of doing anything other than mouthing empty words about "democracy", devoid of liberty, then why should we adhere to it, ourselves?

What's "in it" for us, as you hear people saying all the time these days?

Except our own futures, perhaps ......

[Livyjr]

And that brings me back to a topic that we are monitoring in here, which is Mr. George W. Bush going to Europe to call for unity, when he has been probably the biggest factor in the last fifty years in creating disharmony, not only here in OUR America, but all throughout the world as well, as though he were Gilgamesh reincarnated!

Mr. Bush is in Brussels right now, or at least he was, because I heard him on the radio a little bit ago, speaking from there, and so .....

In this following article, Mr. Bush is calling for unity!

Well, as jeffmoskin and A.B. have said above, and I concur, his call for unity just might be a little late, AS IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS, he has unified the world and at least half of the people in OUR America, AGAINST HIM AND HIS!

BUT .....

Europe - AP

"Bush Faces Iraq Critics, Calls for Unity"

By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer

BRUSSELS, Belgium - President Bush dismissed the rift with Europe over Iraq as a "passing disagreement of governments" on Monday and urged greater trans-Atlantic cooperation, including more support for the fledgling Iraqi government.

"Now is the time for the established democracies to give tangible political, economic and security assistance to the world's newest democracy," Bush said in a speech intended for both European and American consumption.

Hard feelings linger from Bush's opposition to the Kyoto climate change treaty and the International Criminal Court.

An issue where the allies may find common ground is a demand that Syria withdraw its forces from Lebanon — a declaration prompted by the assassination of a former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, in a massive bombing in Beirut last week.

And here is George W. Bush, with his "unity" schtick":

Top Stories - AP

"Bush Issues Forceful Words to Iran, Syria"

38 minutes ago

By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer

BRUSSELS, Belgium - President Bush appealed to Europe on Monday to move beyond animosities over Iraq and join forces in encouraging democratic reforms across the Middle East.

He also prodded Russia to reverse a crackdown on political dissent, demanded that Iran end its nuclear ambitions and told Syria to get out of Lebanon.

Bush did not rule out using military force in Iran, saying all options remain on the table.

But, addressing widespread concerns in Europe that Iran is the next U.S. target after Iraq, Bush said:

"Iran is ... different from Iraq."

"We're in the early stages of diplomacy."

Bush's speech on a five-day fence-mending trip to Europe was aimed at both U.S. and European audiences.

"In a new century, the alliance of America and Europe is the main pillar of our security," he said.

He used the word "alliance" 12 times in his speech to underscore his aim to repair relations frayed by the war in Iraq.

But not all his speech was conciliatory.

Bush had pointed criticism for Russia three days ahead of a meeting with President Vladimir Putin in Slovakia.

Referring to Putin's recent steps to consolidate power, rollback democratic reforms and curb press and political freedoms, Bush said:

"We must always remind Russia that our alliance stands for a free press, a vital opposition, the sharing of power and the rule of law."

"The United States should place democratic reform at the heart of their dialogue with Russia."

Bush's speech was delivered in an ornate ballroom of Brussels' Concert Noble hall before an audience of business leaders, academics and diplomats.

It was greeted mostly by subdued applause.

He was having a private dinner later Monday with French President Jacques Chirac, one of his harshest critics on Iraq.

His trip also included stops in Germany and Slovakia.

Bush urged greater "tangible political, economic and security assistance to the world's newest democracy," Iraq.

And he called for European allies to stand by fledgling democracy movements throughout the world, and especially in the Middle East.

On the same day that he spoke, European Union foreign ministers decided to open a Baghdad office to coordinate the training of more than 700 Iraqi judges and prosecutors.

The office will be the first EU representation in Iraq since the war, and European officials said it reflects their willingness to take on a more active rebuilding role and help smooth relations with Bush.

Bush said he recognized that full democracy could take awhile to root.

Even in the United States, democracy came slowly, Bush said, pointing out that women and minorities were not treated equally "and that struggle hasn't ended."

Bush had sharp words for Syria, calling on leaders in Damascus to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.

As Bush spoke, thousands of opposition supporters in Beirut shouted insults at Syria and demanded the resignation of Lebanon's pro-Syrian government, marking a week since the assassination of Rafik Hariri, Lebanon's most prominent politician.

The United States has withdrawn its ambassador from Syria for consultations to protest a suspected link between the assassination and Syria.

"The Lebanese people have the right to be free, and the United States and Europe share an interest in an independent, democratic Lebanon," Bush said.

On Iran, Bush said the United States was working with European allies Britain, France and Germany on a diplomatic solution to end Iran's nuclear program.

His administration, however, has been skeptical of the Europeans' approach to offer Iran economic and political incentives not to develop nuclear arms.

"The results of this approach now depend largely on Iran," Bush said.

"The time has arrived for the Iranian regime to listen to the Iranian people and respect their rights and join in the movement toward liberty that is taking place all around them."

And he had pointed advice for two pivotal U.S. allies in the Middle East: Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

"The government of Saudi Arabia can demonstrate its leadership in the region by expanding the role of its people in determining their future," Bush said, urging greater move toward giving Saudi more political freedom.

"The great and proud nation of Egypt, which showed the way toward peace in the Middle East, can now show the way toward democracy in the Middle East," Bush said.

Addressing the long-running conflict between the Palestinians and Israelis, one of keen interest to Europe, Bush said a future Palestinian state must be "contiguous" because a state "on scattered territories will not work."

This appeared to signal Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon that he may have to be more forthcoming on giving up Israeli settlements in the West Bank when peace negotiations on a Palestinian state reach their final stage.

Before the speech, the president made a courtesy call on King Albert II and Queen Paola, Belgium Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt and NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer.

Verhofstadt, who introduced Bush at the speech, said the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq was divisive — but with pressing problems in Africa and other parts of the world, "It makes little sense arguing about who was right."

Bush sought to minimize past differences on Iraq.

"Some Europeans joined the fight to liberate Iraq, while others did not," Bush said.

"All nations now have an interest in the success of a free and democratic Iraq, which will fight terror, which will be a beacon of freedom and which will be a source of true stability in the region."

Despite Bush's appeal to bury past differences, divisions remain over other issues, including the U.S. decision not to enter the Kyoto climate change treaty, which many European nations supported.

"All of us expressed our views on the Kyoto Protocol, and now we must work together on the way forward," Bush said.

He suggested the answer lies in "the power of human ingenuity" and emerging technologies.

[Livyjr]

And here is George W. Bush, with his "unity" schtick":

Top Stories - AP

"Bush Issues Forceful Words to Iran, Syria"

By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer

BRUSSELS, Belgium - President Bush appealed to Europe on Monday to move beyond animosities over Iraq and join forces in encouraging democratic reforms across the Middle East.

Bush's speech on a five-day fence-mending trip to Europe was aimed at both U.S. and European audiences.

"In a new century, the alliance of America and Europe is the main pillar of our security," he said.

He used the word "alliance" 12 times in his speech to underscore his aim to repair relations frayed by the war in Iraq.

Bush urged greater "tangible political, economic and security assistance to the world's newest democracy," Iraq.

The world's newest democracy?

Is it?

And if so, when did that happen?

Middle East - AP

"Shiites Weigh Possible PMs As Raids Go On"

1 hour, 51 minutes ago

By JAMIE TARABAY, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. Marines broke down doors and raided houses Monday on the second day of an offensive aimed at cracking down on insurgent activity in several troubled cities west of Baghdad.

The forays occurred as Shiites of the winning United Iraqi Alliance met in Baghdad to hash out a final prime ministerial candidate for the newly elected 275-member National Assembly.

Debate has intensified among the members of the alliance, who formed a 21-member committee to decide on two nominees for the job because they could not agree on a candidate.

The two main candidates so far had been the former Pentagon favorite Ahmad Chalabi, a secular Shiite, and Ibrahim al-Jaafari, the interim vice president.

The race may get more complicated following reports that the Shiite's initial pick for prime minister, Finance Minister Adel Abdul-Mahdi, could return as a compromise candidate.

Abdul-Mahdi, who has close ties to Iran, dropped out Feb. 16.

Meanwhile, gunmen in the northern city of Mosul abducted an Iraqi television presenter, an official from her network said Monday.

Raiedah Mohammed Wageh Wazan was abducted by several masked gunmen Sunday night while she was returning home, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The U.S. military said insurgents targeted the local TV station "several times in the past week because they have been broadcasting programs that highlighted the negative effects of insurgent activity."

"Those programs have had rapidly growing support from Iraqi citizens and therefore have caused the station to be targeted."

The U.S. announcement added that "insurgents contacted the station and threatened to continue to target employees."

Two Indonesian journalists and their Jordanian driver missing since last week were freed by militants and arrived safely Monday at the Iraq-Jordan border, according to a spokeswoman for Metro TV, their employer.

The three were abducted last week outside Ramadi, west of Baghdad.

A video delivered anonymously to Associated Press Television News in Baghdad on Monday apparently showed the two journalists — Meutya Viada Hafid and Budiyanto, who like many Indonesians goes by one name — shaking hands with a militant before they were released.

A masked person in the video, reading from a notebook, said, "Based on the good will they showed, and respecting the feelings of brotherhood and Islam between the two countries, and respecting the Indonesian anti-occupation role, we decided to release the two journalists without any conditions and ransom."

Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, was critical of the U.S.-led 2003 invasion of Iraq, and has refused to send troops to the country.

In Ukraine, which did send troops, more than 2,000 protesters rallied Monday in front of the president's office in downtown Kiev to demand the immediate withdrawal of 1,650 Ukrainian soldiers from Iraq.

President Viktor Yushchenko, who took office in January, told the crowd that that the soldiers "fulfilled their mission," but added that a pullout had to be coordinated with allies.

Six explosions boomed through the capital before midday.

The cause of the blasts was not immediately known.

Footage from Associated Press Television News showed U.S. troops treating an American soldier apparently injured in one of the blasts, which overturned a Humvee in the southern Doura neighborhood.

In Ramadi, U.S. Marines fanned out across the city, setting up checkpoints, searching cars and sealing off areas to prevent people from entering or leaving as they carried out raids.

The operation came one day after launching the operation and putting in place a nighttime curfew.

Iraqi Maj. Abdul Karim al-Faraji said troops detained a prominent Sunni Muslim sheik, Mohammed Nasir Ali al-Ijbie, who heads the al-Bufaraj tribe, along with 12 of his relatives.

The new operation was under way in several other Euphrates River cities in Anbar, including Heet, Baghdadi, Hadithah and the provincial capital Ramadi, the military said.

Hadithah residents reported parts of the city were bombarded by coalition aircraft overnight.

There was no word on casualties.

On Saturday, an American soldier was killed in Mosul by small-arms fire, the U.S. military said Monday, without elaborating.

As the Shiite majority prepared to take control of the country's first freely elected government, tribal chiefs representing Sunni Arabs in six provinces issued a list of demands — including participation in the government and drafting a new constitution — after previously refusing to acknowledge the vote's legitimacy.

"We made a big mistake when we didn't vote," said Sheik Hathal Younis Yahiya, 49, a representative from northern Nineveh.

"Our votes were very important."

He said threats from insurgents — not sectarian differences — kept most Sunnis from voting.

Sunnis make up 20 percent of Iraq's population of 26 million; Shiite make up 60 percent.

Gathering in a central Baghdad hotel on Sunday, about 70 tribal leaders from six provinces tried to devise a strategy for participation in a future government.

There was an air of desperation in some quarters of the smoke-filled conference room.

"When we said that we are not going to take part, that didn't mean that we are not going to take part in the political process."

"We have to take part in the political process and draft the new constitution," said Adnan al-Duleimi, the head of Sunni Endowments in Baghdad.

Meanwhile, a powerful Sunni organization believed to have ties with the insurgents sought to condemn the weekend attacks largely aimed at Shiites that left nearly 100 Iraqis dead.

"We won't remain silent over those crimes which target the Iraqi people Sunnis or Shiites, Islamic or non-Islamic," Sheik Harith al-Dhari, of the Association of Muslim Scholars, told a news conference.

Iraqis, he said, should unite "against those who are trying to incite hatred between us."

end quotes

The world's newest democracy?

Where?

Or is this the model that George W. Bush intends to import back to here; one party rule with that being him and his?

[Livyjr]

And here is George W. Bush, with his "unity" schtick":

Top Stories - AP

"Bush Issues Forceful Words to Iran, Syria"

By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer

BRUSSELS, Belgium - President Bush appealed to Europe on Monday to move beyond animosities over Iraq and join forces in encouraging democratic reforms across the Middle East.

He also prodded Russia to reverse a crackdown on political dissent, demanded that Iran end its nuclear ambitions and told Syria to get out of Lebanon.

Bush did not rule out using military force in Iran, saying all options remain on the table.

But, addressing widespread concerns in Europe that Iran is the next U.S. target after Iraq, Bush said:

"Iran is ... different from Iraq."

"We're in the early stages of diplomacy."

Bush's speech on a five-day fence-mending trip to Europe was aimed at both U.S. and European audiences.

"In a new century, the alliance of America and Europe is the main pillar of our security," he said.

He used the word "alliance" 12 times in his speech to underscore his aim to repair relations frayed by the war in Iraq.

But not all his speech was conciliatory.

Bush had pointed criticism for Russia three days ahead of a meeting with President Vladimir Putin in Slovakia.

Referring to Putin's recent steps to consolidate power, rollback democratic reforms and curb press and political freedoms, Bush said:

"We must always remind Russia that our alliance stands for a free press, a vital opposition, the sharing of power and the rule of law."

"The United States should place democratic reform at the heart of their dialogue with Russia."

"The United States should place democratic reform at the heart of their dialogue with Russia?"

How about America's "dialogue" with Venzuela?

What's to be the tone and tenor there, I wonder?

World - AP Latin America

"Chavez Threatens to Stop Oil Exports"

Mon Feb 21,12:00 AM ET World - AP Latin America

CARACAS, Venezuela - Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez said Sunday that he would stop oil exports to the United States if the U.S. government tries to assassinate him.

"If anything happens to me, forget about Venezuelan oil Mr. (George W.) Bush," said Chavez during his weekly radio and television show.

Chavez and Cuban leader Fidel Castro accused the United States last week of planning to assassinate Chavez.

"If I am assassinated, there is only one person responsible: the president of the United States."

"You must take action if this happens," Chavez said to listeners of his show.

Relations with the United States, Venezuela's main oil buyer, have deteriorated in the past months due to Washington's criticism of weapons purchases by Venezuela.

Venezuela is the world's fifth oil exporter and is the fourth largest supplier of oil to the United States, shipping nearly 1.2 million barrels of crude to U.S. ports daily.

However, relations have been tense under Chavez, a strong critic of U.S. involvement in Iraq and free market deals backed by Washington.

Chavez has accused the U.S. government of being behind a 2002 coup attempt that it was slow to condemn.