Life in OUR America, Volume 2, The Livyjr Files Options

[Livyjr]

As long as I have the floor, let me state that I completely agree with your statement concerning France and Jacques Chirac as stated right below.

BTW, if I have used up too much space in my previous posting about the 241 marines on the situation in Lebanon, I apologize.

There was no way I felt I could lead up to the actual attack on the marines without providing some background.

Anyhow, we do have plenty of serious, existing problems happening right now, right here in Our America.

None of these problems are insurmountable.

Especially, if we have wise leadership in Washington.

Which we don't.

A.B.

And no apology needed or required, Mr. A.B.!

Recall that the exchanges in here about the Lebanon barracks bombing were started by comments made by New York State Senator Charlie "Chuck" Schumer about the barracks bombing in 1983 that I thought were along the lines of Jingoism and demagoguery, and if Charlie "ChucK" wants to stir up "emotions", then he should know in advance just what those emotions are likely to be, and in my opinion, he does not!

And so, he plays political games with that barracks bombing, and with the lives of those dead Marines, ALL THESE YEARS LATER, when he was never one himself!

To gain political advantage for himself, TODAY, he dredges up ONE MORE TIME this tragedy for those families TWENTY-TWO YEARS AGO, NOW!

And I find that somewhat obscene, myself!

But, of course that is politics, and by the way Charlie "Chuck" plays the "game", this kind of pandering for sympathy is apparently alright!

If Charlie "Chuck" Schumer wants to go to Washington, D$C$, and play at being a United States Senator from the EMPIRE STATE of New York, that is certainly his business, and he is free to go about it, as far as I am concerned, but still that gives him no right to be a Jingoist on my nickel, or a demagogue, as far as that goes, since I believe that I am one of his "constituency", although Charlie "Chuck" does not really seem to represent any of my values as a disabled veteran here in OUR America, especially with regard to integrity of government in the corrupt Empire State, as well as equal protection and due process of law, both in the Empire State, and in OUR America as well, or at least its federal court system in the Northern District of New York, where Charlie "Chuck" is the man, er, Senator!

[Livyjr]

If you make that five will get me one hundred, I might risk a small bet.

Maybe he, Kenny Boy, and Scrushy will start a new colony there?

A.B.

And speaking of Scrushy, what is he up to, anyway?

Let's look and see:

Business - AP

"HealthSouth Witness: Scrushy a 'King'"

45 minutes ago

By JAY REEVES, Associated Press Writer

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. - A former HealthSouth Corp. finance chief on Monday described ousted CEO Richard Scrushy as a bullying corporate "king" who sweet-talked him into signing false financial statements.

Weston Smith, the fifth and final former HealthSouth CFO to take the stand against Scrushy at his corporate fraud trial, said he planned to quit HealthSouth rather than sign bogus financial statements in 2002 because he was worried about the new Sarbanes-Oxley law, which included long prison terms for corporate fraud.

But in a private meeting, Smith said Scrushy persuaded him to sign the statements by telling him about plans to end the fraud, lower earnings expectations and split HealthSouth into two companies.

"His analogy was that we all rode in together in this pickup truck and we were all going to ride out on it," said Smith, testifying under a plea deal with prosecutors.

Describing an atmosphere of intimidation at HealthSouth, Smith said Scrushy would "humiliate" subordinates who challenged him during meetings.

"He was referred to as the king."

"He made every decision," said Smith.

U.S. District Judge Karon Bowdre upheld a defense objection to Smith's characterization of Scrushy.

But the former executive continued with an unflattering portrayal of his one-time boss, depicting Scrushy as a tyrannical backstabber.

"He did not tolerate people who were not `yes' men."

"If you were not in the room you were a target, because he loved to talk about people behind their back," said Smith.

Like the four CFOs to testify before him, Smith said Scrushy was part of what prosecutors have described as a conspiracy to overstate HealthSouth earnings by some $2.7 billion for seven years beginning in 1996.

They claim Scrushy made millions off the scheme through stock sales, bonuses and salary.

The defense says Scrushy's top aides were behind the fraud and lied to Scrushy for years to cover up its existence so they could earn promotions and raises.

Smith was the first of 15 HealthSouth executives to plead guilty in March 2003, the month after he left the company following 16 years.

He hasn't been sentenced but faces almost $7 million in fines and forfeitures and could be sentenced to at least 10 years in prison.

Scrushy's name often came up in meetings of a group called "the family," which figured out how much the medical services and rehabilitation chain needed to overstate its results to meet Wall Street forecasts, according to Smith.

Members repeatedly asked if Scrushy knew of the overstatement, he said, and Scrushy aide Bill Owens, also a former CFO, told them Scrushy "knows everything that's going on."

Smith testified he "wasn't the least bit surprised" by Owens' remarks because he had discussions with Scrushy as early as 1996 about the company not meeting its goals for collecting cash.

After being chewed out by Scrushy in a large meeting, Smith said he went to Scrushy personally and told him it was a "fantasy" to think HealthSouth could meet its cash projections since net revenues had been overstated.

"His response was, `Hey, I'm setting a tone for the company.'"

"'I know what's going on'."

"'Don't worry about it, just keep doing your job,'" Smith testified.

Owens previously tied Scrushy to the fraud during his testimony, as did former HealthSouth chief financial officers Aaron Beam, Mike Martin and Tadd McVay.

Free on $10 million bond, Scrushy is charged with conspiracy, fraud, money laundering, obstruction of justice and perjury.

He also is accused of false corporate reporting in the first case of a chief executive being charged with violating the Sarbanes-Oxley Act.

Scrushy could received what amounts to a life sentence and have to forfeit as much as $278 million in assets if convicted.

end quotes

Go, Scrushy, go!

And by the way, folks, this is the kind of corporate crap that George W. Bush's plans for OUR Social Security would be financing, with OUR money!

Keep integrity in OUR Social Security System by keeping George W. Bush and HIS OUT of OUR Social Security System!

And Scrushy and his CROWD, as well!

[jeffmoskin]

If I recall, jeffmoskin was successfully escaping from New York State the same year that I was graduating from high school, inside of New York State, and jeffmoskin grew up as a young person in New York City, which was the exact opposite of my rural environment to the north of him, and which experience for a young child such as jeffmoskin was, had to be incredible, at least to me, who is from the country!

As is often the case with children, they always assume that where they frow up, how their mother and father treat them, how their teachers treat them, how their friends treat them...


Is just like it happens to everybody else.

Kids just never think any differently.

Funny, when I "escaped" as you well put it and went into my first store in the Golden State, here in Kah-lee-FAWN-yah, as the governator would call it, the clerk said, "May I help you?"

Coulda knocked me over with a feather.

WhereIcumfrom, they woulda said, "Hey! Waddyawant?"

[Livyjr]

As is often the case with children, they always assume that where they grow up, how their mother and father treat them, how their teachers treat them, how their friends treat them...

Is just like it happens to everybody else.

Kids just never think any differently.

Funny, when I "escaped" as you well put it and went into my first store in the Golden State, here in Kah-lee-FAWN-yah, as the governator would call it, the clerk said, "May I help you?"

Coulda knocked me over with a feather.

WhereIcumfrom, they woulda said, "Hey! Waddyawant?"

It is always hard for me, a country kid, to think about how I would have "grown up" if I had lived in a city!

Guess you just have to experience it to know!

Especially a city as big as New York City is, some 26 miles from top to bottom for Manhatten alone!

The first time that I was in California, outside of passing through on my way back from Viet Nam, which was a short, surreal time, indeed, I was visiting over in the east bay area outside of San Francisco, and as is my habit, I was just out walking around, looking at this or that as it came up, with no real destination in mind, other than gradually "looping" back to where I had started, and in the course of that, I ended up in one place, indecisive as to which way to go, and I was standing on the side of the street, or road, as I call it, looking this way and that, and all of a sudden, cars are stopping, and people in them are all watching me, and of course, I was watching them, and wondering, and it stayed that way, for a bit, EN TABLEAU, as it were, UNTIL I realized that all these people were waiting on me, and so, I waved them all to continue on, as they had been doing, since all I really was doing was standing there and looking around.

When I got back to where I was staying, I remarked on this to the people I was staying with, and they said, "Oh, yeah, out here, cars ACTUALLY stop for you if you are going to cross the street, and seeing you standing there, people would automatically stop, and wait for you to cross!"

And I was amazed at that, quite frankly!

Quite amazed!

And not necessarily at the concept of stopping for a pedestrian, which is unheard of back here in the corrupt Empire State, BUT AT THE COURTESY of people out there, AS IF THEY ACTUALLY RECOGNIZE EACH OTHER AS FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS, AND CARE!

Not a New York STATE OF MIND at all!

And that is quite a sad statement, in and of itself!

Here they would be tallying up how many points a pedestrian on a curb was worth, and likely, they would be aiming to collect those points!

SO!

"WATCH OUT, BUDDY, I'm COMING THROUGH, AND YOU OVER THERE, WAADDAYALOOKINAT!"

To us still stuck here in the corrupt EMPIRE STATE, California IS the land of the free, and much more a home to courtesy and real grass-roots democracy than this place is going to be for quite some time, IF EVER!

Which is why OUR young folks leave, and with OUR blessings!

Get out of this corrupt hell-hole now, while you are young and still can, and DON'T LOOK BACK!

Probably like people in Nazi Germany looking to the free world all around them, and celebrating when one of their own was able to get out and be free, really free, in some other land, although an exile from the land of their birth!

[Livyjr]

To us still stuck here in the corrupt EMPIRE STATE, California IS the land of the free, and much more a home to courtesy and real grass-roots democracy than this place is going to be for quite some time, IF EVER!

Which is why OUR young folks leave, and with OUR blessings!

Get out of this corrupt hell-hole now, while you are young and still can, and DON'T LOOK BACK!

Probably like people in Nazi Germany looking to the free world all around them, and celebrating when one of their own was able to get out and be free, really free, in some other land, although an exile from the land of their birth!

Normally, I try and stay away from stories of personal "tragedy", and the one that comes to mind immediately is this continuing "saga" of Terry Schiavo, where George W. Bush and of all people, Tom "THE ETHICS-CHALLENGED REPUBLICAN MAN" Delay have now involved themselves, because I believe that personal tragedy is just that, personal!

And since I am not a politician out cadging for money, and pandering, and doing the other assorted low things that politicians are wont to do in their quest for ever more money, I have no need to EXLPOIT these human dramas for my own "ENDS", such as Bush Co. and Tom Delay appear to be doing here in this case of Terry Schiavo!

But this next story HAS WITHIN IT "something" that really "disturbs" me, especially as one who is still caught up here inside the boundaries of the corrupt EMPIRE STATE, where in my immediate area, SIMILAR "SENTIMENTS" SEEM TO PREVAIL, and all in all, for someone like me, THAT JUST IS NOT A GOOD THING:

"Teen who killed 9 reportedly admired Hitler - Other students said he was picked on and that he'd made threats"

March 22: A Native American community was struggling to comprehend the shootings that left 10 people dead.

NBC, MSNBC and news services

Updated: 11:27 a.m. ET March 22, 2005

BEMIDJI, Minn. - A troubling profile of the teenager who shot dead nine people, seven at his high school, emerged on Tuesday — one of a Native American who described himself as a "NativeNazi" and who other students said was regularly picked on for his odd behavior.

The teenager, identified as 17-year-old Jeff Weise, stormed into Red Lake High School on Monday afternoon, shooting dead a guard, a teacher and five students before apparently killing himself.

At least 14 other students and teachers were wounded in the nation’s worst school shooting since the Columbine massacre in 1999 that killed 13 people.

Weise had been placed in the school’s Homebound program for some violation of policy, said school board member Kathryn Beaulieu.

Students in that program stay at home and are tutored by a traveling teacher.

Beaulieu said she didn’t know what Weise’s violation was, and wouldn’t be allowed to reveal it if she did.

Before the school shootings, Weise shot dead his grandfather and his grandfather's girlfriend at the home he shared with them.

Student Sondra Hegstrom, 17, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune that Weise was into goth culture, wore "a big old black trench coat," drew pictures of skeletons, listened to heavy metal music and "talked about death all the time."

A couple of his friends had said he was suicidal, she added, and they said they were watching a movie once when he said, "That would be cool if I shot up the school."

"They didn't think anything of it," Hegstrom said, but "he got terrorized a lot" by others who called him names.

Relatives of Weise told the St. Paul Pioneer Press that Weise's father committed suicide four years ago, and his mother lives in a Minneapolis nursing home because she suffered brain injuries in a car accident, the relatives said.

Online postings about 'racial purity'

Weise was also found by the St. Paul Pioneer Press newspaper to have posted several comments last year on an online forum frequented by neo-Nazis.

He used the pen names Todesengel, German for "angel of death," and "NativeNazi."

"I guess I've always carried a natural admiration for Hitler and his ideals, and his courage to take on larger nations," Weise wrote in one session.

He shared the Nazi goal of racial purity, saying that when he talked in school about that for his own Chippewa tribe, "I get the same old argument which seems to be so common around here."

"'We need to mix all the races, to combine all the strengths.'"

"They (teachers) don't openly say that racial purity is wrong," he added, "yet when you speak your mind on the subject you get 'silenced' real quick by the teachers and likeminded school officials."

"When I was growing up, I was taught (like others) that Nazi's were evil and that Hitler was a very evil man," he said in another posting.

"Of course, not for a second did I believe this."

"... They truly were doing it for the better."

He also wrote that he planned to recruit high school students to join a neo-Nazi movement he hoped to start on his reservation.

"The only ones who oppose my views are the teachers at the high school, and a large portion of the student body who think a Nazi is a Klansman, or a White Supremacist thug," he wrote.

"Most of the Natives I know have been poisoned by what they were taught in school."

Students describe ordeal

The school, which is on the Red Lake Chippewa Tribe reservation, has metal detectors but Weise reportedly shot an unarmed guard to get past the station.

Student Reggie Graves said he was watching a movie about Shakespeare in class Monday when he heard Weise blast his way past the metal detector.

Then, in a nearby classroom, he heard Weise say something to his friend Ryan:

“He asked Ryan if he believed in God,” Graves said.

“And then he shot him.”

During the rampage, teachers herded students from one room to another, trying to move away from the sound of the shooting, said Graves, 14.

He said some students crouched under desks.

Student Ashley Morrison said she heard shots, then saw the gunman’s face peering though a door window of a classroom where she was hiding with other students.

With Weise banging on the door, she dialed her mother on her cell phone.

“’Mom, he’s trying to get in here and I’m scared,”’ Morrison told her mother.

After banging, the shooter walked away and she heard more shots.

“I can’t even count how many gunshots you heard, there was over 20 ... there were people screaming, and they made us get behind the desk,” she said.

Hegstrom said her classmates pleaded with Weise to stop shooting.

“You could hear a girl saying, ’No, Jeff, quit, quit.'"

"'Leave me alone.'"

"What are you doing?” she told The Pioneer of Bemidji.

Hegstrom described Weise grinning and waving at a student his gun was pointed at, then swiveling to shoot someone else.

“I looked him in the eye and ran in the room, and that’s when I hid,” she said.

Red Lake Fire Director Roman Stately identified the shooter’s grandfather as Daryl Lussier, a longtime officer with the Red Lake Police Department, and said Lussier’s guns may have been used in the shootings.

Stately said Weise had two handguns and a shotgun.

The teen reportedly drove up to the school in his grandfather's squad car.

“After he shot a security guard, he walked down the hallway shooting and went into a classroom where he shot a teacher and more students,” Stately told Minneapolis television station KARE.

Students and a teacher, Diane Schwanz, said the gunman tried to break down a door to get into her classroom.

“I just got on the floor and called the cops,” Schwanz told the Pioneer.

“I was still just half-believing it.”

All of the dead students were found in one room.

Martha Thunder’s 15-year-old son, Cody, was being treated for a gunshot wound to the hip.

“He heard gunshots and the teacher said ’No, that’s the janitor’s doing something,’ and the next thing he knew, the kid walked in there and pointed the gun right at him,” Thunder said, standing outside the hospital in Bemidji.

‘Darkest hour' for tribe

Floyd Jourdain Jr., chairman of the Red Lake Chippewa Tribe, called it “without a doubt the darkest hour” in the group’s history.

It was the nation’s worst school shooting since two students at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 before killing themselves on April 20, 1999.

The rampage in Red Lake was the second fatal school shooting in Minnesota in 18 months.

Two students were killed at Rocori High School in Cold Spring in September 2003.

Student John Jason McLaughlin, who was 15 at the time, awaits trial in the case.

Red Lake High School, on the Red Lake Indian Reservation, has about 300 students.

The reservation is about 240 miles north of the Twin Cities.

It is home to the Red Lake Chippewa Tribe, one of the poorest in the state.

According to the 2000 census, 5,162 people lived on the reservation, and all but 91 were Indians.

The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

end quotes

LIFE in the warped and twisted America, or MURIKA, of the hate-spewing Rush Limbaughs of OUR world!

And George W. Bush, as well!

What a swamp!

And it is all around me, as well, which makes me damn glad that I am getting older, so that my time left down here in this hell George W. Bush is going to create for us all is going to come to an end, sooner than later.

NEO-NAZIS and NEO-CONS!

ALL ONE THING, folks, ALL ONE THING!

And look at who George W. Bush EMBRACES as his own!

And then wonder at your own future, BECAUSE .....

AS HE SAYS, IF YOU ARE NOT WITH HIM, THEN YOU ARE THE ENEMY, AND YOU WILL BE PUT DOWN, AND HARD, BY HIM AND HIS!

For the good of what he and Rush Limbaugh call their America, which is a land of pure hatred to me, but apparently some kind of "heaven" to them!

[Istoodforu]

LIFE in the warped and twisted America, or MURIKA, of the hate-spewing Rush Limbaughs of OUR world!

And George W. Bush, as well!

What a swamp!

And it is all around me, as well, which makes me damn glad that I am getting older, so that my time left down here in this hell George W. Bush is going to create for us all is going to come to an end, sooner than later.

NEO-NAZIS and NEO-CONS!

ALL ONE THING, folks, ALL ONE THING!

And look at who George W. Bush EMBRACES as his own!

And then wonder at your own future, BECAUSE .....

AS HE SAYS, IF YOU ARE NOT WITH HIM, THEN YOU ARE THE ENEMY, AND YOU WILL BE PUT DOWN, AND HARD, BY HIM AND HIS!

For the good of what he and Rush Limbaugh call their America, which is a land of pure hatred to me, but apparently some kind of "heaven" to them!

Livyjr,

Could you explain the connection you see between George Bush and this tragedy? Bushwhacking is one of my favorite pastimes, but doesn't it muddy the water to blame him for something he had nothing to do with?

ISFU

[jeffmoskin]

When I got back to where I was staying, I remarked on this to the people I was staying with, and they said, "Oh, yeah, out here, cars ACTUALLY stop for you if you are going to cross the street, and seeing you standing there, people would automatically stop, and wait for you to cross!"

And I was amazed at that, quite frankly!

Quite amazed!

And not necessarily at the concept of stopping for a pedestrian, which is unheard of back here in the corrupt Empire State, BUT AT THE COURTESY of people out there, AS IF THEY ACTUALLY RECOGNIZE EACH OTHER AS FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS, AND CARE!

Not a New York STATE OF MIND at all!

And that is quite a sad statement, in and of itself!

Here they would be tallying up how many points a pedestrian on a curb was worth, and likely, they would be aiming to collect those points!

Future point collectors take note:

On a recent trip to my former home, New York City, an old man with a cane was crossing the street in midtown Manhattan when a taxicab, turning right, got a little too close to his intended path.

He proceeded to whack the hood of the cab with his cane with a force thast his size and physical condition belied.

"Ahhhmmm Waawwwwkin heeeeeahhhhh!" he excalimed, in the thickest accent I have heard in a long time.

I had to contain myself.

[Livyjr]

Livyjr,

Could you explain the connection you see between George Bush and this tragedy? 

Bushwhacking is one of my favorite pastimes, but doesn't it muddy the water to blame him for something he had nothing to do with?

ISFU

There is an atmosphere of hatred in this country that is unprecedented for me in my lifetime, which includes the 1950's, and segregation, although I did not live in the south!

I RECALL, with my own ears, hearing Dwight David Eisenhower using what I thought then and now was the full weight of HIS OFFICE AGAINST THAT HATRED ASSOCIATED WITH SEGREGATION, and whether or not he made a difference to anything else, that position that he took then was to me, at my young age, what I thought real, true leadership was really all about.

TODAY, we hear nothing from George W. Bush about what I think is virulent hatred here in OUR America, which is something that to me is tangible, visceral, and has overt acts associated with it, such as this shooting, above here!

And not only do we hear nothing from George W. Bush about the hatred, but it seems that HE personally has become a cult figure here in OUR America, and that "cult", if you will, includes these neo-nazi types!

George W. Bush, by his actions, has raised, or has allowed to be raised on American soil a large mercenary army, that is linked to hate groups in the south!

SO!

I don't engage in Bush bashing, actually!

I am in a place myself where these "sentiments" are expressed openly, and that is all directly linked to this "cult" thing that surrounds George W. Bush!

George W. Bush, by his words, promotes that cult, IN MY OWN OPINION, and so, out of concern, I speak out.

THEN ....

Someone like yourself will come back and perhaps challenge what I have said, and so information will flow back and forth, and the matter will be resolved, or not, and people will learn and grow from the process, OR NOT!

I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THIS RIGHT-WING EXTREMIST CRAP HERE IN OUR AMERICA, AND I WANT TO HEAR THIS PRESIDENT DENOUNCE IT, AS DWIGHT DAVID EISENHOWER DID!

There, I said it!

And so, IT IS A LEADERSHIP THING, with me!

Or lack of it in the case of George W. Bush, which then allows the hatred to flourish, AGAIN, IN MY OPINION!

And thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to state that in reply to your above query!

It is not for me a trivial point, and so, I am most glad you asked me to clarify myself, here!

[Livyjr]

Future point collectors take note:

On a recent trip to my former home, New York City, an old man with a cane was crossing the street in midtown Manhattan when a taxicab, turning right, got a little too close to his intended path.

He proceeded to whack the hood of the cab with his cane with a force that his size and physical condition belied.

"Ahhhmmm Waawwwwkin heeeeeahhhhh!" he excalimed, in the thickest accent I have heard in a long time.

I had to contain myself.

God bless the pedestrian, jeffmoskin, especially when he is armed with a cane, and is not afraid to use it!

And I can just picture the scene, and boy, does it have me laughing!

WHACK! WHACK! WHACK!

[Abu Beacon]

And not only do we hear nothing from George W. Bush about the hatred, but it seems that HE personally has become a cult figure here in OUR America, and that "cult", if you will, includes these neo-nazi types!


George W. Bush, by his words, promotes that cult, IN MY OWN OPINION, and so, out of concern, I speak out.

Or lack of it in the case of George W. Bush, which then allows the hatred to flourish, AGAIN, IN MY OPINION!

It is not for me a trivial point, and so, I am most glad you asked me to clarify myself, here!

Although the question was asked of you, Livyjr, I do not believe it is just a question that only concerns you.

Actually, one might say, almost everything that happens here in OUR AMERICA
concerns all of us.

And that is because what happens to any one of us can easily happen to all of us.

Dictators count on people not wanting to become involved in what happens to a person who lives in a different part of the country.

So, little by little they become stronger and stronger.

Like a tiny hole in a dam. If it is plugged before it gets larger, there is no damage

If it is not plugged, the hole gets larger and larger until the entire dam is compromised.

Take the CEO of a large corporation. Of course the CEO cannot know of every little detail that takes place in every department. Is he responsible if one of the accountants embezzles a few thousand dollars?

Yes, unfortunately he is. And why should he be?

Because the top man in the company AND IN THE COUNTRY set the tone, the morals, and the philosophy for everyone that is a part of of that organization.

If a country or a company is known to have high integrity, it is not because the janitor is an honest man. All of the traits start at the top, not the bottom.

So thank you, Livyjr for your explanation to a fair question.

A.B.

[Istoodforu]

I'm still skeptical about a climate of hatred explanation. It's too glib. And it diverts attention from the Shenanigans that the Shrub has his hands in up to his elbows. To find ways to prevent this sort of violence, I think we need to look deeper and in more different places.

[Livyjr]

Livyjr,

Could you explain the connection you see between George Bush and this tragedy? 

Bushwhacking is one of my favorite pastimes, but doesn't it muddy the water to blame him for something he had nothing to do with?

ISFU

Somewhere in my files, I thought I had a copy of an e-mail which I had sent to what I call a "HATE-RADIO" talk jock in my area, speaking to him about a segment of his "HATE SHOW" that I had been listening to, where the clear message to me was "GO OUT AND SMASH IN SOME INTELLECTUAL'S SKULL, AND AMERICA WILL THANK YOU FOR IT"!

The message was clearly given in the name of George W. Bush!

Clearly.

On the same radio channel, which is a CLEAR CHANNELS WORLDWIDE AM station in upstate New York, they had George H. W. Bush on with him denouncing intellectuals!

And the denunciation of intellectuals was a very Nazi thing, as well!

Intellectuals are capable of using their intellects after all, and so, were a danger to the thug-like Nazis, who were interested in sheer power!

When I was younger, Hitler would often be seen in newsreel footage talking on OUR TV's over here in educational type shows, and when you listen to the use of "VOICE" by Hitler, even though it is in German, to me, it sounds like Rush Limbaugh doing the same thing, which is using "VOICE", although Rush obviously speaks in English so as to be more readily understood over here, in a predominately English-speaking country!

A kind of "dog-barking" cadence, if you will, that sounds like a lot of "HARUMP-ing" type of sounds, where the same short message of hate is spat out, over and over and over again: "THEY ARE NOT LIKE US!"

Over and over!

And that message filters out over the airwaves each and every day!

And it just keeps reverberating: "THEY ARE NOT LIKE US, THEY ARE NOT LIKE US, THEY ARE NOT LIKE US!"

And when the killing starts, which it did when we started bombing Afghanistan, THEN THE CHEERING STARTS!

And once started, it goes on and on and on!

That is my perception, anyway, and perception is all it can ever be, since I cannot prove what I saw or heard on a certain day, where I am, if none others of you are in the same place to see and hear what I did on that day!

And to be quite truthful, that is one reason for this thread, to post my perceptions in order to see what response they do draw, which oftentimes appears to be nothing at all, and so, either way, I am always learning about LIFE in OUR America, as others here might see it through their own eyes, such as Istoodforu!

Remember, folks, that this is a tapestry in here, with many different colored threads running though it, of necessity, elsewise, it would not be a tapestry in the first place!

Each contributor, or expositor, such as Istoodforu, brings their own personal "mix" to the greater mix in here, and there really is no right or wrong!

Rather, there are points of view expressed, and agreement, or disagreement, as appropriate!

And out of that comes direction, one way, or the other.

Can I prove that the atmosphere of hatred that I think is becoming more and more rampant here in OUR America had anything to do with this school-shooting tragedy?

Of course not!

The shooter is dead, and all of his thoughts on why he did what he did died with him, and that is that!

BUT ....

The atmosphere of hatred unfortunately didn't die with him, and hence, this conversation in here, to talk about all of that!

[Abu Beacon]

The governors' actions come amid a round of soul-searching and turmoil for the nation's labor movement, which has been watching union membership slide in the past few decades, down to 12.5 percent of wage and salary workers in 2004.

This morning I started out with problems in my computer

I tried everything I know about computers ( which isn't a whole lot ) to get it straightened out, to no avail.

So what does that have to do with life here in Our America?

Ler me tell you.

I finally called the manufacturer of my computer and started to explain the problem.

A cheery female voice said to me, " hold on a moment ".

After a few minutes, a male voice with an accent came on the line.

I explained the problem to him.

He said it could be fixed with some instructions over the phone by one of their technicians.

He said the charge would be $ 40. I thought that was not too unreasonable. He also said I would be on " hold " for several minutes.

Then I asked him where he was.

His answer -- " India "

Evidently, Hewlett Packad finds it more profitable to pay for a phone call to India, which might last 15 or 20 minutes ( or longer ) plus all the other costs of doing business than by having a technical support operation here in the U.S.

I became so irritated with this, I told him I would think about it and I hung up.

Another non union job outsourced to a foreign country. That's the current way of
selling out our country, bit by bit.

BTW, I called my son in another state and he had my computer up and running in less then 15 minutes. ( I knew you would want to know )

A.B.

[Livyjr]

Although the question was asked of you, Livyjr, I do not believe it is just a question that only concerns you.

Actually, one might say, almost everything that happens here in OUR AMERICA concerns all of us.

And that is because what happens to any one of us can easily happen to all of us.

A.B.

And here I cannot agree more with you, Mr. A.B., not at all!

While the question did come my way, to me, IT IS AN AMERICAN QUESTION, and not mine alone, so that you or jeffmoskin, or a host of others, will all have your own "take" on this matter, DEPENDING upon where you each are, and what is going on where you are, that you are aware of!

It is like being a doctor, confronted all of the time by sick people!

What you are confronted with daily skews, or might skew, anyway, your own view of what the world is like, and so, I like to hear different points of view myself, so long as we do not degenerate into emotional arguments about such nebulous things as what "arrogance" might really mean, and can someone like George W. Bush or Dick Cheney ever have too much of it in the POST-9/11 ENVIRONMENT?

That is like arguing that the Yankees are best, bar none!

Well, okay, sure, they are, and guess what, you win the argument, because I DON'T ARGUE!

I discuss, but I don't argue!

Why bother?

But discussing a "matter" in order to determine if it might be more than just a chimera, such as this hatred thing, now, to me, that is different.

Istoodforu is wherever Istoodforu is, with all of what comes along with that "place", and that "place" might be a diametric "opposite" to what it is like where I am, IN ALL WAYS!

I know that San Francisco, for example, is much different than it is where I am, so that if a person from San Francisco were in on this conversation, based on their life out there, they might be scratching their heads as to what I am talking about in here sometimes, especially New York State politics, BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE THOSE THINGS ANY LESS REAL TO ME, the "experiencer" who is on the scene!

And you, Mr. A.B., you have your own views totally independent of mine, and I for one value the opportunity to hear your views on a subject such as this one that Istoodforu has raised in here for us all to consider.

And so, please, be my guest and consider this an open question for group discussion, because it is too important to just let it fade away today, as it will only be back next week in a yet more virulent form, if we all decide to just ignore the discussion because it is a "hard", or "uncomfortable" subject!

And jeffmoskin, your opinion on this matter is requested as well, should you feel inclined to join in here.

[Livyjr]

I'm still skeptical about a climate of hatred explanation. 

It's too glib. 

To find ways to prevent this sort of violence, I think we need to look deeper and in more different places.

And here, Istoodforu, I couldn't agree more with you ABOUT FINDING WAYS TO "PREVENT" THIS SORT OF HATE-INSPIRED VIOLENCE HERE IN OUR AMERICA, BUT HOW TO DO?

I think that is really what we are trying to explore in here, how to actually do that "search" that you talk about right above here.

And IS my answer really "glib"?

Hhhmmm.

Let's look and see, for I don't think it really is, glib, that is:

GLIB:

a) smooth, slippery;

marked by ease and informality, nonchalant;

c) showing LITTLE FORETHOUGHT or preparation;

d) lacking depth or substance;

e) superficial, slick;

f) marked by ease and fluency in speaking, or writing, often to the point of being superficial or tricky!

And so .....

With respect to "preventing" this type of violence?

I personally think that can only be done by individuals, and perhaps communities, but not nations, because nations are just too big!

I take it back to the Navaho concept of "HOZHO" myself, balance, or a lack thereof!

And that takes us back to leadership!

Without leadership, nothing can start, and only chaos can follow!

Which is how we got to here, is what I think anyway!

SO?

Where's the exit to "OUT"?

A question for OUR times, here in OUR America!

Stay tuned for further developments, as they happen!

LIVE!

And no paid actors portraying real people in here, either, or at least, not Livyjr!

For he is me, and I am just another serf, here in OUR America, doing this for love of country, and not for money at all!

[jeffmoskin]

This morning I started out with problems in my computer

I tried everything I know about computers ( which isn't a whole lot ) to get it straightened out, to no avail.

So what does that have to do with life here in Our America?

Ler me tell you.

I finally called the manufacturer of my computer and started to explain the problem.

A cheery female voice said to me, " hold on a moment ".

After a few minutes, a male voice with an accent came on the line.

I explained the problem to him.

He said it could be fixed with some instructions over the phone by one of their technicians.

He said the charge would be $ 40. I thought that was not too unreasonable. He also said I would be on " hold " for several minutes.

Then I asked him where he was.

His answer -- " India "

Evidently, Hewlett Packad finds it more profitable to pay for a phone call to India, which might last 15 or 20 minutes ( or longer ) plus all the other costs of doing business than by having a technical support operation here in the U.S.

I became so irritated with this, I told him I would think about it and I hung up.

Another non union job outsourced to a foreign country. That's the current way of
selling out our country, bit by bit.

BTW, I called my son in another state and he had my computer up and running in less then 15 minutes. ( I knew you would want to know )

A.B.

Your son has a GREAT future in bangalore.

This post has been edited by jeffmoskin: Mar 22 2005, 07:44 PM

[Livyjr]

This morning I started out with problems in my computer

I tried everything I know about computers (which isn't a whole lot) to get it straightened out, to no avail.

So what does that have to do with life here in Our America?

Let me tell you.

A.B.

Last year, I had some similar kinds of problems, and so, I called Gateway, and their technicians are in India, too.

They were polite, and helpful, and thanks to them, I did get the computer up and running, again.

Just the other day, I had a problem with my DSL dialer, and called Verizon's tech help, and I spoke to an American, or at least he sure did sound like one to me, and he was helpful as well.

And I have to say, Mr. A.B., that I am of mixed emotions about all of this stuff, since money spent locally stays local, while money sent to another place is gone; what I call the Hoover vacuum cleaner effect!

Those tech centers in India are the Hoover vacuum cleaner, and the hose is over here, in OUR pockets.

The farther away that Hoover vacuum cleaner motor is that's doing the sucking from the end of the hose, the farther away the money goes, and the longer it will be before we ever see it again!

I suppose some great big "WHIZ-BANG" of an economist down there in Washington, D$C$ has it all figured out that these techs in India are now going to buy an Amana dishwasher from some store in Indiana or some such bunkum as that, but as for me, I think if you export your money, IT IS GONE!

BUT ....

It is a "ONE WORLD" economy, now, thanks to the multi-national corporations, and so ....

All we can do is stay in the saddle one more day, or get bucked off in the dust, and then watch out, for if it was a bull that you were riding, he's coming for you right about now!

The day and age of stupidity is upon us, here in OUR America, is what I think, which is why the jobs are gone, and the money is going too!

Who is responsible?

Probably everyone!

And that seems to be the way it goes, with civilizations, they just seem to grow stupid, and then they are gone, especially democracies, and Republics, like OURS once was, and may never be again!

[Livyjr]

Your son has a GREAT future in Bangalore.

And ain't that the truth, jeffmoskin!

Where the action is at!

If you can just stand the heat!

When I had my computer problems, and had to call India to get them straightened out, it was winter here, and I was freezing, and the tech over in India was complaining of the infernal heat, over there!

Apparently he had gone to school over here, and had experienced winter, AND HE LIKED IT!

So there is something, anyway!

We're getting cross-culturized each time our computers break down!

SO!

How about that?

[Livyjr]

And here, before I get into other things, such as the comment by Istoodforu about George W. Bush and "shenanigans" above here, I want to update this Social Security business, so that OUR record in here remains as complete as is possible, right on up to this moment in time:

Politics - U. S. Congress

"Battle Ahead Over Social Security Report"

6 minutes ago

By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer

WASHINGTON - Both sides in the pitched battle over Social Security are getting ready to argue over a whole new set of numbers — the annual assessment of when Social Security and Medicare will go broke.

Even before the report was released Wednesday, critics complained that the administration might try to fudge the numbers.

The report by the trustees of Social Security and Medicare will be in the spotlight this year more than ever because President Bush has made overhauling Social Security the top domestic priority of his second term.

Both Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney were on the road this week, seeking to build support for the overhaul drive, which has run into major opposition from Democrats in Congress who oppose the president's plan to divert a portion of Social Security taxes to create private accounts for younger workers.

Democrats have accused the administration of overstating the funding crisis facing Social Security and contend that Bush is avoiding dealing with the even more serious financing problems in Medicare, the government's health care program for the elderly and disabled.

Social Security provides retirement, survivors and disability income for 47.7 million Americans, and Medicare provides health care for 42 million seniors and disabled people.

The six-member board of trustees for both Social Security and Medicare is headed by Treasury Secretary John Snow and includes Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt, Labor Secretary Elaine Chao and Social Security Commissioner Jo Anne Barnhart.

In addition, there are two public trustees, Thomas Saving of Texas, who has been a proponent of Bush's proposal to create private savings accounts, and John L. Palmer of New York.

While the trustees' report will reflect the decisions made by the six-member board, some Democrats in Congress and other critics have been pushing to make public the recommendations that the board receives from the professional staff of the Social Security Administration.

Those recommendations are not made public, and the deliberations of the trustees also occur in secret.

Critics said the administration was able to conceal from Congress projections made by Medicare's chief actuary that the prescription drug program Congress approved in 2003 would be vastly more expensive than Congress had been led to believe.

The Center for Economic and Policy Research, a liberal-leaning research organization, said unless the recommendations upon which the trustees make their decisions are made public "there is no way of knowing whether the trustees' report is based on expert advice as opposed to political considerations."

Saving and Palmer testified to a congressional committee earlier this month that there have been no major changes in the financial outlook for either Social Security or Medicare over the past year.

Last year's report put the date that Social Security would exhaust all the resources in its trust fund at 2042.

And much earlier, in 2018, the Social Security program will not be collecting enough in payroll taxes to meet its obligations to retirees, the trustees said last year.

The 2018 date is more significant because it is at that point that the government will begin cashing in the bonds that have built up in the trust fund.

However, since those bonds don't represent actual assets, the redemption process will require the government to either borrow more from financial markets, raise taxes or cut spending in other government programs to come up with the resources to meet obligations to retirees.

The situation in Medicare is even more dire.

The health care program crossed the threshold where payroll taxes were not sufficient to meet medical costs for current beneficiaries last year.

It will exhaust all the resources in its trust fund in 2019, according to last year's trustees report.

The financing problems of Medicare are more severe because health care costs are rising so much more rapidly than inflation.

The annual cost of Medicare is $325 billion while the cost of Social Security is $517 billion.

However, the trustees projected last year that Medicare's costs would overtake Social Security by 2024 and would be nearly double Social Security by 2078.
___

On the Net:

Treasury Department: http://www.ustreas.gov

[Livyjr]

Politics - U. S. Congress

"Battle Ahead Over Social Security Report"

By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer

The situation in Medicare is even more dire.

The health care program crossed the threshold where payroll taxes were not sufficient to meet medical costs for current beneficiaries last year.

It will exhaust all the resources in its trust fund in 2019, according to last year's trustees report.

The financing problems of Medicare are more severe because health care costs are rising so much more rapidly than inflation.

However, the trustees projected last year that Medicare's costs would overtake Social Security by 2024 and would be nearly double Social Security by 2078.

And right on the heels of that report above about how "dire" the situation with Medicare is because health care costs themselves are soaring right on up and out of sight, which puts a burden directly on "well" people to have to carry the dead weight of all the "sick" people out there, so that the healthcare "industry" run by the Scrushy's of the world can themselves grow fatter and fatter on OUR collective misery and suffering, what do we have to be added to the "BURDEN LIST" next, by OUR politicians, who just cannot pump enough of OUR money as it is down this healthcare "INDUSTRY'S" pockets?

Aaahhh, yes, obesity!

That most quintessential American "condition" these days!

I think it's what comes of having three or four thousand channels of REALITY TELEVISION to watch on your 35,000 square foot, rear-projection, digitally-enhanced, high definition TV, instead of living a reality life, or maybe up here in the corrupt EMPIRE STATE, obesity comes from sitting on your dead *** all day long scratching off "SCRATCH OFFS" from George Pataki's NEW YORK STATE LOTTERY, instead of engaging in some honest work and exercise, but what the hey, it's for "ED-JU-MA-CA-TION", they say, and that can't be bad, can it?

Buy some more metal detectors and guards for our prison-like school buildings, and life will just have to be oh soooo good, for the security companies who are in the ascendency over here, anyway, like the healthcare boys under Scrushy:

Health - AP

"States Consider Obesity Surgery Coverage"

Tue Mar 22, 4:22 PM ET

By NOREEN GILLESPIE, Associated Press Writer

HARTFORD, Conn. - A proposal before Connecticut lawmakers would require insurance companies to cover the surgery for people with a body-mass index of 30 or more if a doctor deems the surgery medically necessary.

The BMI is a widely used formula based on height and weight.

The Connecticut proposal may not get off the ground this session because lawmakers are struggling to define under what medical conditions the surgery should be covered, said Sen. Joseph Crisco, a Woodbridge Democrat who chairs the legislative committee looking at the issue.

The debate is not unlike others across the country.

Georgia lawmakers are considering a similar bill this year.

And in Louisiana, 40 state employees were chosen last year from 1,200 applications to get the surgery on the state's dime.

The standard surgery, which can cost between $20,000 and $35,000, involves using staples to separate a small pouch at the stomach's top from the rest of the stomach, greatly limiting the amount of food that can be eaten.

The procedure also involves bypassing much of the small intestine so that less food is absorbed into the body.

Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama recently stopped paying for the operations while it decides how to handle claims; Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Florida has also decided to stop paying for the operation.

In Connecticut, many major plans offer coverage only for large numbers of employees.

Others are considering offering the coverage for an additional charge.

"What we're starting to see is an increase in what we would consider at best, unnecessary, and at worst, unsafe, surgery," said Keith Stover, a lobbyist for the Connecticut Association of Health Plans.

"Many plans decide the best course of action simply is to exclude coverage."

But many physicians say the long-term benefits of weight loss surgery outweigh the risk.

Gastric bypass surgery can help cure obesity-related health problems such as high cholesterol, high blood pressure, sleep apnea and even diabetes, said Dr. Jonathan Aranow, director of the Middlesex Hospital Center for Obesity Surgery.

It can also cut down on the long-term cost of medications, he said.

"The surgery pays for itself in under three years," he said.

"There is no question that there are cost savings."

Last year the federal government opened the door for Medicare coverage of gastric bypass surgery.

But some lawmakers and insurers are also worried about risks.

State Rep. Anthony D'Amelio, R-Waterbury, said noted two people in his district died after having the operation.

Complications strike as many as 1 in 5 patients having the surgery, and it is believed that for every 200 patients, 1 to 4 will die.

Estimates are that more than 100,000 people will have the surgery this year.

"I would rather see people try to do it the harder way, exercise and eating properly," D'Amelio said.

"I know it's a struggle ... I think it's the safest route."

But for some patients, the hard way hasn't worked.

Deborah Sicaras, 36, of Wethersfield, has tried Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, diet pills and liquid diets; she also teaches ballet, tap and jazz four days a week.

"I'm one of the fortunate ones who will be able to have this surgery in the very near future," she said.

"I can't do this by myself."

"I need assistance."

"I've dieted my whole life."