Corporations win - Workers lose Options

[heritage]

The energy bill will give more tax breaks or subsidies to the oil, gas and nuclear industries not to mention all the "pork" projects in the over 1000 page document.

Do you think any senator read the entire thing???

[rla]

What do these pension cuts mean on a personal level?

Do these cuts only affect "new" employees?  Is the promise that was given to workers who have put years of sweat and blood into a company now being abrogated?

Are we all getting just a bit poorer?

If so, why?

Could it all boil down to excess greed?

When the problem is diagnoised as a widespread character defiency such as
greed it plays into the hands of the radical religious right--supporting their
aggressive movement to convert sinners. Adding more layers of supervision
and law enforcement won't solve the problem. We already have a higher
percentage of the population in prison than other countries. Human social systems
simply don't work very well unless a certain level of interpersonal trust and
trustworthiness is maintained. We need to remove those structures in our
social system that interfere with building interpersonal trust such as the War
on Drugs, Predatory credit practices, discrimination in the work place, lack of access to physical and mental health care, etc. At the same time we need to put a lot more emphasise on teaching and training on the concepts and skills that
support effective interpersonal relations at every level of education and work
places.

[Eino]

At the same time we need to put a lot more emphasise on teaching and training on the concepts and skills that support effective interpersonal relations at every level of education and work places. 

Well, all this sounds a bit "touchy-felly" to an old redneck like myself. Sorry.

The question about human character was never answered directly. I don't think the radical right wingers are always 100% wrong. I believe there are sinners, people who lack moral character. In fact, I believe I've met more than a few. Are not some of the current woes in our present day economy caused by certain character flaws, namely greed.

As far as interpersonal communications go with greedy people. You can improve the communications, but all you are going to get is better communication with a greedy person. Don't expect any empathy or sympathy from such people, their interest is themselves.

I do believe their are "sinners" out in the business world. I do believe there can be redemption for these persons as well. Some of them do need prison time, but most just need to be replaced with others who are enlightened to the common good.

[rla]

Well, all this sounds a bit "touchy-felly" to an old redneck like myself.  Sorry.

The question about human character was never answered directly.  I don't think the radical right wingers are always 100% wrong.  I believe there are sinners, people who lack moral character.  In fact, I believe I've met more than a few.  Are not some of the current woes in our present day economy caused by certain character flaws, namely greed.

As far as interpersonal communications go with greedy people.  You can improve the communications, but all you are going to get is better communication with a greedy person.  Don't expect any empathy or sympathy from such people, their interest is themselves.

I do believe their are "sinners" out in the business world.  I do believe there can be redemption for these persons as well.  Some of them do need prison time, but most just need to be replaced with others who are enlightened to the common good.

"Touchy-feelly" or not, the most successful businesses are beginning to pay
attention to the research that has been accumulating rapidily during the last three decades are spending millions of dollars on the kind of training refered to.

[Eino]

"Touchy-feelly" or not, the most successful businesses are beginning to pay attention to the research that has been accumulating rapidily during the last three decades are spending millions of dollars on the kind of training refered to.

Lemmings

Deming's quality control training was the trend a few years back. That seemed to go by the wayside.

This type of training must be the style of the day.

It's probably easier than giving people job specific training. That would be hard because the trainer would really have to know what they are doing.

They've even given it where I work. You have to tolerate it and wait the trend out.

Good racket if you can get it.

[material witness]

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm Yup count 14, thats fourteen and where do we stand on the scale? And how does that relate to almost all of the topics on this forum? Any suggestions?

[heritage]

Greenspan concerned about pressures on agency that insures pension plansFriday, July 22, 2005

By Jeannine Aversa, The Associated Press

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05203/541711.stm

WASHINGTON -- Any more moves by companies to dump troubled pension plans on the financially strapped agency that insures them for working men and women would be troubling but shouldn't threaten the economy, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said Thursday.

Greenspan made his remarks to the Senate Banking Committee after he delivered what may be his final economic outlook to Congress. He plans to step down early next year after 18 years on the job.

The Fed chief was asked by Sen. Jim Bunning, R-Ky., what the impact on the economy would be if more companies were to dump their pension plans on the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., an agency that is running a record deficit that tops $20 billion and which recently assumed the obligations of the United Airlines pension plans.

An additional pension burden for the PBGC "clearly is negative," Greenspan told Bunning. "I think it is a worrisome thing for American taxpayers, needless to say."

Private analysts and others worry that a taxpayer-funded bailout could happen at some point if the agency cannot get on firmer financial footing, especially if additional companies opt to dump their pension obligations.

The agency's operations are financed by insurance premiums, which are paid by companies that sponsor traditional pension plans. It also earns money from investments and receives funds from pension plans that it takes over. The agency is not funded through tax revenues.

Even with his concerns, Greenspan said he didn't foresee the pension system's financial problems threatening the health of the economy -- at this point.

"It's hard to see at this stage any spillover effects yet on economic forces. As large as the numbers are -- relative to a $12 trillion economy, obviously, they're not at a stage where it is critical," he said.

Various bills have been offered in Congress to shore up the PBGC.

Greenspan repeated his interest in seeing Congress rein in the massive portfolio holdings of Fannie Mac and Freddie Mac.

Congress is exploring various proposals to rein in Fannie Mae, the No. 1 U.S. buyer of home mortgages, and its rival, Freddie Mac, which ranks as the second-largest buyer. They were created by Congress to inject money into the home-loan market. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buy mortgages and bundle them into securities for sale to investors worldwide.

[heritage]

Led by Kodak and Hewlett-Packard, corporate icons make it a bad week for American labor
Saturday, July 23, 2005

By Ben Dobbin, The Associated Press

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05204/542259.stm

ROCHESTER, N.Y. -- In a week where Alan Greenspan said he expected the U.S. economy to keep growing and Wall Street seemed generally pleased with corporate performance, workers at Eastman Kodak Co., Hewlett-Packard Co. and Kimberly-Clark Corp., among others, were warned about thousands of new layoffs.

"You get immune to it after a while," longtime Kodak technician John Hladis said with barely a shrug when the scythe fell once more at the Rochester-based photography company, slicing away another 10,000 employees.

But some economy watchers are suddenly concerned that this latest flurry of job cuts -- a byproduct of various trends such as outsourcing, mergers, automation, changing technology and consumer demands -- may foreshadow some trouble ahead.

"We won't know till afterwards, but I do think we may be seeing a tipping point in the economic cycle that these big layoffs are flagging," said John A. Carpenter, chief executive of Challenger, Gray & Christmas, a Chicago-based employment research firm. "I think it's a sign that leaks are breaking out."

One thing is for certain: It was not a good week for American labor. In fact, it's been an unusually torrid summer in terms of trimming payrolls.

U.S. corporations announced plans in June to cut 110,996 jobs -- the highest monthly total in 17 months -- and July's toll could turn out to be steeper. Overall job cuts are on the rise in 2005, reaching 538,274 through June, according to Challenger's monthly job-cut analysis.

Suffering its third straight quarterly loss, Kodak upped its job-slashing target to 22,000 to 25,000 on Wednesday from an earlier range of 12,000 to 15,000. By mid-2007, its worldwide payroll should level out below 50,000, one-third what it was in 1988.

Even as the picture-taking pioneer enjoys rapid gains in digital photography, it is struggling to cope with plummeting demand for conventional silver-halide film, its cash cow for the last century.

"We cannot keep bleeding year after year," Kodak's new chief executive, Antonio Perez, told analysts. "We need to establish an end point to this transformation, and we need to get there soon."

The same applies at Hewlett-Packard. The Palo Alto, Calif., computer and printer maker moved Tuesday to modify its pension benefits and eliminate 14,500 jobs, or nearly 10 percent of its work force, in a scramble to rein in bloated costs and combat efficient rivals.

Kimberly-Clark joined the job terminators Friday: The maker of Kleenex tissues and Huggies diapers plans to let 6,000 people go and sell or close as many as 20 plants. And Ford Motor Corp., which is already cutting 2,700 salaried workers this year, is mulling more aggressive measures.

In contrast, International Business Machines Corp.'s second-quarter earnings beat Wall Street's expectations, suggesting a rebound from its difficulties this spring when it targeted 14,500 job cuts, primarily in Europe.

Indeed, the economic picture displayed plenty of positives this past week.

The Labor Department said the number of Americans filing new claims for unemployment benefits plunged 34,000 to 303,000 -- the largest one-week improvement since December 2002. And while Greenspan cautioned that a big run-up in already high energy prices could throw a wrench into his forecast, the Federal Reserve Board chairman reiterated his bullish economic outlook.

"The economy," Challenger acknowledged, "has been very strong for the last year. We've seen over 2 million jobs created, we've seen unemployment drop to 5.0 percent, but I feel like we've probably hit the high water mark.

"We are beginning to see some of these icon companies topple a bit. It's not visible too much yet, but these are signs and suggest the next six months to a year are going to be tougher times for the economy."

The huge overhauls at General Motors Corp., Kodak and other bellwether companies are hardly surprising considering the heightened pressures of global competition, countered Pete Sperling, professor of finance at Yeshiva University's Sy Syms School of Business in New York. The U.S. economy has become more dominated by service industries, he said.

"It's something that's basically long overdue," Sperling said, referring to the transformations under way at many legacy manufacturers. "I would almost argue that if these businesses don't get it done now, we'll be in bigger trouble down the road. It's adapt or just go by the wayside.

"One of the most difficult things," Sperling added, "is you need a senior management that knows how to function in this kind of environment -- and that's very difficult to find. At Kodak, it sounds as if at least they're moving in the right direction."

Kodak is hoping film will continue to bring enough cash as it steadies on its new bearing. But less than seven weeks after taking the helm, CEO Perez is already reaching for the ax.

Hladis, 55, who joined Kodak in 1975, has survived a seemingly endless string of company cutbacks over the last quarter-century and is glad to be working in a research unit focused on "mostly digital stuff." But Stan Beloch, 52, a machine operator, worries his 15-year career has fallen in front of the firing line.

"They tell us nobody is going to lose their jobs, they can send us to other areas of the company," he said gloomily. "But there's not a whole lot of other areas you can go to."

[heritage]

Saving 10 percent of salary no longer enough
Wednesday, July 20, 2005

By Jonathan Clements, The Wall Street Journal

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05201/540835.stm

Just when folks ought to be saving more, they are saving less. Trouble ahead? You'd better believe it.

Yes, I have heard all the arguments about how the true savings rate is higher than the 1.3 percent calculated for 2004 by the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis, or BEA. But don't let that distract you from the bigger issue.

In a world of disappearing company pensions, skimpy bond yields, rich stock valuations and rising life expectancies, anybody interested in a comfortable retirement should be saving a truckload of money every year -- and yet most folks aren't......

[heritage]

Heard Off the Street: Pension woes take gold out of golden years
Sunday, July 24, 2005

By Len Boselovic, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542410.stm

Nary a week goes by without some discouraging news on the retirement front. Last week was no exception.

The least distressing development emerged on Monday from Standard & Poor's, which evaluated the pension plans of the 369 S&P 500 companies that sponsor defined benefit retirement plans. By S&P's calculations, the plans were underfunded to the tune of $164 billion at the end of last year, making them not much healthier than they were at the end of 2003, when the deficit was $165 billion.

S&P said 55 of the plans had surpluses at year-end, 311 had deficits and assets matched liabilities in the remaining three plans. By comparison, at the end of 1999, S&P 500 members had a cumulative pension surplus of $280 billion, with 296 overfunded and 86 underfunded plans.

"With expected below average market returns and modest increases in interest rates for 2005, funding should improve slightly, but still remain underfunded in the $140 billion to $150 billion range," says S&P's David Blitzer.

On Tuesday, S&P 500 member Hewlett-Packard announced that, as of January, it will freeze the pension and retiree medical benefits of employees who don't meet criteria based on age and years of service.

Instead, the company will increase its matching contribution to most employees 401(k) plans to 6 percent from 4 percent.

Employees are entitled to pension benefits earned through the end of the year, but after that, the 401(k) match will be Hewlett-Packard's only contribution to the retirement security. That's for those who still have jobs. HP also announced it will reduce its work force by 14,500, or 10 percent, over the next 18 months.

At the end of last year, the company's pension plans could cover about 82 cents of every $1 in pension benefits current and former employees had earned. The company contributed $10 million to its U.S. pension plan in 2004 and $564 million to pension plans outside the United States. Defined contribution retirement plans cost HP another $405 million last year.

In additional to the usual retirement expenses this year, HP has one unusual item to cover: the $21.2 million cost of retiring HP chairman and chief executive officer Carly Fiorina.

The last bit of dark retirement news came Wednesday from another S&P 500 constituent, Unisys. The Blue Bell, Pa., information technology services firm reported a second- quarter loss of $27.1 million.

Unisys made it clear it would have reported a profit of $4.1 million were it not for a pretax pension expense of $45.8 million. Sure, there was weak demand for Unisys servers and some troubles with outsourcing contracts, but "excluding pension expense, we posted a small profit in the quarter," said President and CEO Joseph W. McGrath.

I'm sure the hubris of McGrath's explanation of the loss was not lost on Unisys employees. They probably weren't expecting their fearless leader to mention the fact that Unisys Chairman Lawrence A. Weinbach, whose salary was $1.4 million last year, will receive an annual pension of $1 million under the terms of an employment contract he signed in April 2004. Weinbach will serve as chairman through January.

Since Weinbach joined the company in 1997, Unisys shareholders have endured an average annual loss on their investment of nearly 11 percent. By comparison, owning the S&P 500 index would have given them annual returns of 4.5 percent while owning the index of S&P 500 information technology stocks -- Unisys' competitors -- would have given them 1 percent annual returns.

Sounds like pesky pension expenses aren't the only issue Unisys faces.

*

The Internal Revenue Service's initiative against abusive tax shelters involving stock options proved to be an offer most corporate chieftains couldn't refuse.

IRS officials say 80 of the 124 executives targeted by the probe have agreed to the terms of a settlement offer the agency made in February. They will pay taxes on income they were attempting to defer as well as interest and a 10 percent penalty. Another 15 settled as the result of IRS audits.

Here's how the basic scheme was supposed to work. Executives transferred their lucrative stock options to a family limited partnership or other related entity in exchange for an IOU payable in a lump sum as far as 30 years in the future. The partnership immediately exercised the options and sold the stock, leaving it with a big pile of money.

Normally, exercising options is a taxable event, requiring the executive to pay taxes on the difference between the exercise price on the option -- what the executive paid for the stock -- and the market price -- the price received when the stock is sold.

The architects of the tax shelter argued taxes weren't due until the trust repaid the IOU. The IRS ruled otherwise, a ruling that's being challenged in court. The popularity of the offer indicates most executives aren't counting on the court overturning the IRS interpretation.

The agency determined that 10 of the 124 executives it looked at weren't involved in abusive tax shelters.

Another 15 of the 124 executives settled after IRS audits. Combined, the 95 executives are facing taxes on as much as $500 million in income. The 19 who did not settle are either being audited or are the subjects of criminal tax investigations. The IRS alleges they underreported their income by more than $400 million.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Len Boselovic can be reached at lboselovic@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1941.)

[heritage]

Ford to Cut Costs by Shedding Sales Jobs

Updated 1:15 PM ET August 9, 2005
http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pr...8bse9gg0&src=ap

By DEE-ANN DURBIN

DETROIT (AP) - Ford Motor Co., hurt by flat sales and high costs, is consolidating its Ford and Lincoln Mercury marketing divisions and shedding sales jobs, the company said Tuesday.

The No. 2 U.S. automaker is reducing the number of regions covered by its field offices from 17 to 11 as part of the plan. The regional offices sell vehicles to Ford's 4,000 U.S. dealerships and handle local marketing. Regional customer service offices also will be cut.

Ford is closing regional offices in Boston, Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Minneapolis-St. Paul and Seattle, but will keep some staff in those cities, Lincoln Mercury spokeswoman Sara Tatchio said.

"There will be nothing apparent to the customer," Tatchio said.

Tatchio wouldn't say how many jobs will be affected, but the Dearborn-based automaker has said it wants to cut at least 1,750 more jobs before the end of this year. Ford has 3,500 employees on its sales, marketing and service staff.

Steve Lyons, Ford's vice president for North American marketing and sales, said the consolidation will help dealers because they'll learn about new tools and techniques more quickly.

But Jim Sanfilippo of Bloomfield Hills, Mich.-based Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc. said the change is troubling because Ford set an industry standard with the well-trained staff at its regional sales offices.

"Ford basically invented this," Sanfilippo said. "The quality of Ford field management is notorious. They're tough and they're good."

Sanfilippo said foreign brands such as Toyota Motor Corp. and Nissan Motor Co. adopted Ford's strategy and have large staffs to help dealers. But General Motors Corp. went through a similar consolidation several years ago and its relationship with dealers suffered, Sanfilippo said.

"I don't doubt for a second that Ford is doing this with some trepidation," he said.

The move is part of a larger cost-cutting effort at Ford, which is saddled with high labor and health-care costs at the same time its U.S. market share is falling. Ford's U.S. market share was down in the January-July period, from 18.5 percent in 2004 to 17.9 percent this year.

Ford's profits fell 19 percent in the second quarter, to $946 million from $1.17 billion a year ago. Its sales were flat in the first seven months of this year.

Ford spokesman Oscar Suris said Tuesday that the company's goal is to reduce its salaried work force in North America by 2,750 jobs. More than 1,000 people had left the company through buyouts and layoffs at the end of July. Ford has 35,000 salaried workers in North America.

Lyons will continue to lead North American sales and marketing operations. Darryl Hazel, formerly head of the Ford division, will be vice president of marketing, while Al Giombetti, formerly vice president of the Lincoln Mercury division, will be vice president of sales.

Ford shares rose 6 cents to $10.43 in afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange.

[heritage]

KPMG to Pay Fine, 8 Former Execs Indicted
[it only took 3 years....]

Updated 12:50 PM ET August 29, 2005
http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pr...8c9jpkg3&src=ap

By ERIN McCLAM

NEW YORK (AP) - Accounting firm KPMG agreed Monday to pay $456 million and eight former executives were indicted as the firm admitted it sold fraudulent shelters to help wealthy clients avoid paying billions in taxes.

The firm, part of the accounting industry's so-called Big Four, itself avoided a potentially devastating criminal indictment, agreeing to submit to an independent monitor and not to commit further wrongdoing.

KPMG admitted it helped "high net worth" clients evade billions of dollars in capital-gains and income taxes by developing and marketing the tax shelters, and concealing them from the Internal Revenue Service.

The $456 million fine includes $128 million in forfeited fees that KPMG earned by selling the fraudulent tax shelters.

Also Monday, federal prosecutors released an indictment of nine men _ eight former KPMG executives and an outside tax lawyer who worked with the firm _ charging them with conspiring to defraud the IRS.

Among those charged was Jeffrey Stein, who was named deputy chairman of KPMG in April 2002. There was no immediate word on when the nine men would appear in court.

Judge Loretta Preska of Manhattan federal court said KPMG's board had unanimously agreed to the deal.

Federal prosecutors had filed what is known as a criminal information charging the firm with conspiracy and other crimes, but agreed not to seek a grand jury indictment.

Under the deal, known as a deferred prosecution agreement, prosecutors can seek an indictment of the firm through Dec. 31, 2006, if it violates the terms of the agreement.

KPMG lawyer Robert Bennett declined comment outside court but said the company planned a statement later.

The investigation centered on a type of tax shelter marketed by KPMG in the late 1990s that allowed its clients to report tax losses to offset big profits elsewhere, thereby avoiding paying taxes.

KPMG stopped providing the shelters in 2002. In June it said that some of its former partners had engaged in "unlawful conduct" and pledged to cooperate with the Justice Department.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and Manhattan U.S. Attorney David Kelley and IRS Commissioner Mark Everson planned an afternoon news conference in Washington.

KPMG was eager to avoid a criminal indictment of the company. Another major accounting firm, Arthur Andersen, which had Enron Corp. as a client, was decimated after prosecutors charged it with obstruction of justice.

The Supreme Court reversed Andersen's conviction earlier this year.

___

On the Net:

KPMG: http://www.kpmg.com

Justice Department: http://www.usdoj.gov

Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[Eino]

KPMG was eager to avoid a criminal indictment of the company. Another major accounting firm, Arthur Andersen, which had Enron Corp. as a client, was decimated after prosecutors charged it with obstruction of justice.

The Supreme Court reversed Andersen's conviction earlier this year.

Looks like the future is bright for crooked accountants.

[Kmarx]

The CAFTA 15 Get Their Payoff

Original Article Interesting if true!

I just heard this rumor from a well-placed source in the Washington political operative world that should send your blood aboiling: the National Association of Manufacturing has agreed to hold a fundraiser for the CAFTA 15. There it is, the payoff for a vote that hurt workers here and abroad.

Completely by coincidence, an hour after I got the tip, I was on the NAM's radio show to discuss the future of labor with my blogger counterpart over there, Pat Cleary (a smart man and good writer, even if we don't agree). I asked Pat, on the air, at the end: I hear you guys are throwing a fundraiser for the CAFTA 15. Pat's response was roughly: we just want to say thanks. And, to my request that he let me come to blog the event, Pat just sent me an email: "Sorry, man, you gotta send your $$ first!"

Don't get me wrong: I find no fault with what the NAM is doing. It is rewarding its friends and allies--it is being creative and smart about wooing the whores of the Democratic Party. The real question is: what is our response?

So, Rahm Emanuel, head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), a question for you: is the DCCC going to raise money for the CAFTA 15, if those same folks are taking corporate money as a specific thank-you for the CAFTA vote? And, Nancy Pelosi, what's your reponse going to be?

Personally, I hope the CAFTA 15 go to the fundraiser. We should take pictures of everyone of the CAFTA 15 entering the event and use those pics on behalf of the primary challengers that need to be fielded to boot these folks out of office. And maybe even picket the event.

[Eino]

Manufacturing employment edged down in August, and has declined by
110,000 over the year.  Motor vehicles and parts manufacturers shed 8,000
jobs in August; since May, employment has declined by 37,000.  This industry
has accounted for nearly half of all jobs lost in manufacturing over the year.
In August, the long-term employment declines continued in textile mills and
apparel.  These industries have lost 46,000 jobs over the year.  Mining
employment continued to trend upward over the month; since its most recent
low in April 2003, the industry has added 67,000 jobs.  Support activities
for oil and gas operations have accounted for much of the increase.

The above is from the government. The folks at the government are there to help you.

From your Government bureau of labor statistics

The thing I still don't understand is that I hear the bad news as posted here and things don't quite add up. Some of the bad news includes: Factories are closing. Our Congress is passing bad laws that send our jobs overseas and unions are taking a beating.

Yet, I look at the government statistics and things have gotten slightly better. What's with this?

[Kmarx]

The above is from the government.  The folks at the government are there to help you.

From your Government bureau of labor statistics

The thing I still don't understand is that I hear the bad news as posted here and things don't quite add up.  Some of the bad news includes:  Factories are closing.  Our Congress is passing bad laws that send our jobs overseas and unions are taking a beating.

Yet, I look at the government statistics and things have gotten slightly better.  What's with this?

It's call government propaganda and is brought to you by the Bush/Cheney Junta and their Ministry of Propaganda and Popular Enlighenment.

[Eino]

It's call government propaganda and is brought to you by the Bush/Cheney Junta and their Ministry of Propaganda and Popular Enlighenment.

That could be. There are people that work for Uncle Sam that work hard and take pride in what they do. I'll bet some of those people compile those statistics every month. I'll bet they'd be pretty darn mad if they found out that the president was throwing the "real" facts away and publishing bald faced lies.

The stats do show a loss of manufacturing jobs. I think what is happening is that people want to survive and are taking what they can get. The opportunities that were offered in the US just a few years back seem to have diminished. This is not good in the short run and not good in the long run.

We can't stop globalization, but we can make it a smooth transition instead of a step change to people's lives. This is where our government could help, were it truly a kindler gentler form of right wing despotism as was promised when Shrub originally ran for office.

Innovation stems from those who build and manufacture. I've never heard of an innovative lawyer or accountant. The loss of manufacturing portends the loss of America's lead in technology and innovation. I'd hate to see it all go away.

I'll stop my whining now.

[Kmarx]

The loss of manufacturing portends the loss of America's lead in technology and innovation.  I'd hate to see it all go away.

I'll stop my whining now.

And with that loss the US will become just another large land mass much like Russia! We either hold on to that lead or we lose everything worth holding on to and it's all due to corporate greed and traitorous politicians!

This post has been edited by Kmarx: Sep 14 2005, 10:23 PM

[Brookie]

A funny rhetorical trick the right-wing uses is to describe corporate interests and "private". They have been contrasting the public sector with the "private" sector for years.

This is one of those big lies

[Eino]

And with that loss the US will become just another large land mass much like Russia! We either hold on to that lead or we lose everything worth holding on to and it's all due to corporate greed and traitorous politicians!

Yeh, things have been bad in that old Marxist state for years.

People do seem to do better where there is opportunity. China is getting richer because they are doing one smart thing. They are trading. They have embraced capitalism. They are becoming a nation of shopkeepers.

People have great abilities when they are unfettered. The power of the human imagination is immense, perhaps infinite. Trade allows that imagination to create innovation. I wonder if the problem with America today is not that our living wage cannot keep up with the third world, but rather with the immense amount of red tape and the propensity of lawyers that our innovation is stifled.

Could Thomas Edison make it in today's world? Was he ever sued because his lightbulbs could have been unsafe? How safe was the model T?

There are a lot of smart people in those old Marxist states. These people were not allowed to create businesses to sell their ideas to help the rest of us. Those countries remained poor. There are a lot of smart people in the U.S. Perhaps the culture no longer encourages or respects the idea of these people creating innovative ideas and peddling innovative products to the rest of us.

I'm still a protectionist. We have to take care of our own first. We also have to let our own ideas flourish and make life better for all of us.

A funny rhetorical trick the right-wing uses is to describe corporate interests and "private". They have been contrasting the public sector with the "private" sector for years.

That's true. You ever notice that when they give a speech trying to sell their philosophy on the rest of us, they talk about Private with a small "p?" Mr. Bush talks about private home ownership and gives a smile and talks about small busisness. The right wingers never give that smile and talk about the other "private" side. This is the private with the big "P." They never glorify the immense rigid bureaucratic corporate behemoths that paid to get them in office. They never talk about government organizations being needed to keep these monsters at bay. they never express the need to defend the individual's rights from being run roughshod by these corporate entities.

For all their talk about "private," they never talk about helping the small "private" individual.