Active Desertion / Death Counts, various comparisons and reports Options

[ghostgovt]

Recent disturbing reports about higher death counts as result of the Iraq War have been surfacing in various reports. Conflicting desertion and death figures keeps circulating giving suspicion to a possible cover-up of such actual counts. This thread is dedicated to compiling such reports that may reflect just how many findings there are concerning this matter.

The report below has [5,500 American military personnel have deserted]
[The educated rumor is that the actual death toll is in excess of 7,000.]



U.S. Military Personnel who died in German hospitals or en route to German hospitals have not previously been counted. They total about 6,210 as of 1 January, 2005. The ongoing, underreporting of the dead in Iraq, is not accurate. The DoD is deliberately reducing the figures. A review of many foreign news sites show that actual deaths are far higher than the newly reduced ones. Iraqi civilian casualties are never reported but International Red Cross, Red Crescent and UN figures indicate that as of 1 January 2005, the numbers are just under 100,000.

by Brian Harring, Domestic Intelligence Reporter

Note: There is excellent reason to believe that the Department of Defense is deliberately not reporting a significant number of the dead in Iraq. We have received copies of manifests from the MATS that show far more bodies shipped into Dover AFP than are reported officially. The educated rumor is that the actual death toll is in excess of 7,000. Given the officially acknowledged number of over 15,000 seriously wounded, this elevated death toll is far more realistic than the current 1,400+ now being officially published. When our research is complete, and watertight, we will publish the results along with the sources In addition to the evident falsification of the death rolls, at least 5,500 American military personnel have deserted, most in Ireland but more have escaped to Canada and other European countries, none of whom are inclined to cooperate with vengeful American authorities. (See TBR News of 18 February for full coverage on the mass desertions) This means that of the 158,000 U.S. military shipped to Iraq, 26,000 either deserted, were killed or seriously wounded. The DoD lists currently being very quietly circulated indicate almost 9,000 dead, over 16,000 seriously wounded and a large number of suicides, forced hospitalization for ongoing drug usage and sales, murder of Iraqi civilians and fellow soldiers , rapes, courts martial and so on – Brian Harring

[underbear1]

good article ghostgovt

[Marine]

I was wondering why you left the link off.

http://www.humiliateamerica.com/modules.ph...rticle&sid=1241

I'll help you out and provide it GG.

[ghostgovt]

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/feb2005/dese-f10.shtml

WSWS : News & Analysis : North America Lawyer for US deserters speaks with WSWS

It cannot be irrelevant to a soldier that a war is legal or illegal

By Lee Parsons
10 February 2005

Reports of a growing number of desertions from the US military have surfaced in recent weeks, revealing a picture of the state of the morale and support for the war among US forces that differs sharply from that provided by the Bush administration, the Pentagon and the corporate media.

At least a half dozen deserters from the US are now seeking political refugee status in Canada, but the number of deserters in Canada could be far higher. According to the US military over 5,500 personnel have deserted in the past year alone.

[ghostgovt]

Now I say that's pretty impressive [The most recent Pentagon figures suggest there are 5,133 troops missing from duty. Of these 2,376 are sought by the Army, 1,410 by the Navy, 1,297 by the Marines and 50 by the Air Force. Some have been missing for decades].[But campaigners say the true figure could be far higher.]




http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0516-02.htm


Monday, May 16, 2005
by the Independent/UK

The Deserters: AWOL Crisis Hits the US Forces

As the death toll of troops mounts in Iraq and Afghanistan, America's military recruiting figures have plummeted to an all-time low. Thousands of US servicemen and women are now refusing to serve their country.

by Andrew Buncombe


Sergeant Kevin Benderman cannot shake the images from his head. There are bombed villages and desperate people. There are dogs eating corpses thrown into a mass grave. And most unremitting of all, there is the image of a young Iraqi girl, no more than eight or nine, one arm severely burnt and blistered, and the sound of her screams.

Last January, these memories became too much for this veteran of the war in Iraq. Informed his unit was about to return, he told his commanders he wanted out and applied to be considered a conscientious objector. The Army refused and charged him with desertion. Last week, his case - which carries a penalty of up to seven years' imprisonment - started before a military judge at Fort Stewart in Georgia.

"If I am sincere in what I say and there's consequences because of my actions, I am prepared to stand up and take it," Sgt Benderman said. "If I have to go to prison because I don't want to kill anybody, so be it."

The case of Sgt Benderman and those of others like him has focused attention on the thousands of US troops who have gone AWOL (Absent Without Leave) since the start of President George Bush's so-called war on terror. The most recent Pentagon figures suggest there are 5,133 troops missing from duty. Of these 2,376 are sought by the Army, 1,410 by the Navy, 1,297 by the Marines and 50 by the Air Force. Some have been missing for decades.

But campaigners say the true figure could be far higher. Staff who run a volunteer hotline to help desperate soldiers and recruits who want to get out, say the number of calls has increased by 50 per cent since 9/11. Last year alone, the GI Rights Hotline took more than 30,000 calls. At present, the hotline gets 3,000 calls a month and the volunteers say that by the time a soldier or recruit dials the help-line they have almost always made up their mind to get out by one means or another.

[ghostgovt]

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0503/S00145.htm


Wednesday, 16 March 2005,

5500 US Deserters: We Won't Fight In Iraq

By Doug Lorimer
Green Left Weekly
From: http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/619/619p14.htm



CBS News reported on December 8 that the Pentagon has admitted that at least 5500 US military personnel have deserted since the war started in Iraq.

[underbear1]

To stop military thugs, it takes a village.



after they slaughter the entire village the country responds!

[ghostgovt]

Here's just another tidbit of an opinion about Brian Harring 's mission for exposing some possibilities that there are some hanky panky lies about the real death counts in Iraq via the German hospital deaths. I'm keeping an open mind on this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/arch...ption_2838.html




06.18.2005
Jim Lampley

The Ultimate Deception?

A Bush-watcher website identified as TBRNews.org is reporting under the byline of "domestic intelligence reporter" Brian Harring that the Department of Defense is using a cynical tactic to mislead the public regarding the true death toll for American military personnel in Iraq. Harring claims he has an internal pdf. file from the D.O.D. which establishes that nearly 9000 Americans have died in Operation Iraqi Freedom, but that the official number has been held to 1713 by designating as Iraq deaths only those who perish on Iraqi soil. The remainder, he says, are military personnel who have died en route to Germany or in German hospitals-- casualties of the war, but not listed in the official death toll.

If this is true it would explain the apparent statistical discrepancy between dead and wounded. A combat action which produces nearly eight times as many officially wounded-- 13000 plus-- as officially dead...well, it's not the norm. It goes without saying it would also further jolt a public majority already disturbed by the war's "progress" and eager to see the troops come home.

How to validate or invalidate Harring's incendiary claims? In his report Harring asserts he will begin publishing, in sections, the Defense Department's official list of war dead from Iraq. Relatives and other loved ones of those whose lives are gone will be asked to examine the lists to see if the names of those they've lost appear there. The Defense Department has, according to Harring, properly notified the loved ones of those who have died in Germany or en route to hospital, but has neglected to inform them that the casualty is not a part of the official death toll.

This is the way to find out, and gradually we in the blogosphere may get a picture of whether this most cruel of deceptions has really taken place. You have to hope not. But in light of everything we've learned, do you think this is beyond them? An Administration which forbids photographs of returning coffins? An Administration whose President has yet to attend a single Iraq-related funeral or memorial? It appears almost nothing is beyond them.

[Gabrielle]

Greg Szymanski has also picked up this story.

DOD Iraqi GI War Dead Figures In Dispute

Author: Greg Szymanski

Although Pentagon denies under reporting deaths, independent researcher says more than 7,000 GI's may have died in Iraqi combat.

Some war critics say trusting the military to report an accurate GI death toll in Iraqi is like asking a mafia boss how many people he "whacked’ this year. One number, however, not in dispute is that President Bush hasn’t attended a single military funeral, something even the most cold hearted street bosses do out of respect for the families.

Of course no one really knows how many gangster "hits" end up in New York’s East River, but there is growing speculation that Pentagon brass are taking a page out The Godfather Trilogy, using it as a quick refresher course on how to hide the bodies.

The Pentagon denies any foul play or under reporting, a military spokesman last week placing the GI death toll in Iraq at 1,725 and 193 in Afghanistan, a figure changing daily due to increased violence.

In fact, rarely a day goes by when at least one soldier isn’t killed. But the question remains exactly how many?

Pentagon spokesman Maj. Michael Shavers said "every single death" is reported in the official figure if it is deemed to occur "in the theatre" and of a "hostile" nature. He added 366 deaths have not been added to the official list since they were considered accidental or non-hostile.

"If a soldier dies in the theatre of action and it is deemed hostile, then his or her death is reported," said Maj. Shavers, adding accidental and non –hostile deaths are not counted only if totally unrelated to combat. "It should be noted that if an individual dies as a result of an injury in the theatre deemed hostile within 120 days after the injury occurred, the death is counted in the official totals no matter where he dies.

"This means if he dies on the transport airplane or in the hospital afterwards, he or she is counted in the official death toll."

But Brian Harring, an independent researcher and author preparing a book on the subject, places the military’s figures and its method of tabulating deaths in serious question.

For months, Harring has been putting together a painstaking and exhaustive research project, complete with secrete Department of Defense (DOD) documents, claiming the Pentagon has been "drastically under reporting deaths, injuries and desertions" in order to dispel war criticism.

"I have put together a comprehensive analysis of the Iraqi War from the planning stages before the war and then have broken down the actions during the war month by month. I show a chronology supported with documents…the actual death tolls are far in excess of the official ones posted by the DOD," said Harring.

Harring’s accusations starting circulating this week in an update of his work at tbrnews.org, claiming he has official DOD internal casualty lists not released which reveal the true number of Iraqi deaths, both military and civilian, as well as accurate casualty and desertion numbers.

Taking his lawyer’s advice, considering the present political climate and the passage of the Patriot Act, Harring decided it was safer not to publish the list in the U.S., opting to first release the damaging DOD documents overseas.

"Be assured that the .pdf (DOD internal) document is real, exactly as reported, but it is a huge 900-page file. As soon as it appears in the public domain overseas beyond the reach of US law, we may then legally reproduce it here in this country, and we will not hesitate to do so," said Harring about the legal complications he is encountering.

"When it is published, it will have a devastating effect on the political scene and will certainly reveal the total lack of credibility of anyone connected with the Bush administration."

Although his research is incomplete, Harring claims figures compiled to date reveal approximately 7,000 GI deaths, 100,000 Iraqi civilian deaths, 26,000 GI injuries and 5,500 desertions, all far in excess of official military reports released to the public.

"We have received copies of manifests from the MATS that show far more bodies shipped into Dover AFB than are reported official," said Harring. "When our research is complete, and watertight, we will publish the results along with the sources."

Harring is also soliciting public help for his project, asking families or friends who have lost loved ones in Iraq to check out tbrnews.org, a site that is also publishing the complete list of Iraqi dead as released by DOD.

" We have posted an official and alphabetized list of the official dead. We have asked readers to advise us of any names they might be aware of that are not on this list," added Harring.

"Since our first posting, we have received several such omitted names, seven in the first day, and to date, June 20, 2005, 38 total, and are compiling these, along with proofs of death from the DOD, which we will post when we collect a significant number - 100 or more - which cannot be dismissed by the DOD as an oversight."


However, it appears Harring’s basis for accusing the military of under reporting, at least regarding GI deaths, is in direct conflict with the official military categorization of a hostile versus non-hostile and accidental death.

Maj. Shavers said the military reports all deaths if they result from hostile injuries in the theatre if the death occurs within 120 days no matter if they die en route or in the hospital.

Harring contends otherwise, writing:

"There are many more deaths that have not appeared on the official lists because the DOD has taken to the tricky tactics of loading dying and probable fatalities onto aircraft and flying them out of Iraq to bases and hospitals outside of that country.

"So, if a GI is dying or has every expectation of dying, he or she is loaded on an aircraft and their subsequent deaths are not publicly reported as "combat deaths." Of course the families or survivors are certainly notified of the death but the public is not."

This post has been edited by Gabrielle: Jul 3 2005, 07:16 PM

[Gabrielle]

Come to think of it I don't recall a single news report of a soldier who died in the hospital in Germany or died during emergency transport out of Iraq.

[ghostgovt]

Come to think of it I don't recall a single news report of a soldier who died in the hospital in Germany or died during emergency transport out of Iraq.

You are very hot on the trail with that statement Gabrielle. I have tried mths ago to Google German hospitals and find such information, and it's like nothing at all exists about them and their handling of our troops. Fits into the extreme suppression of war news by BushCo doesn't it? Could you imagine if this were found out to be true along with on top of all the other suppressed real action 'news' inside Iraq and some of the other Arab countries (special ops)? Think how 'more' folks would be a little 'perturbed' to say the least.

The only thing that this thread's article(s) might be wrong is the approximation of how many may actually be killed, but I almost truly feel that we are not getting near the real death count.

This post has been edited by ghostgovt: Jul 4 2005, 04:50 AM

[Desron]

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0503/S00145.htm
Wednesday, 16 March 2005,

5500 US Deserters: We Won't Fight In Iraq

By Doug Lorimer
Green Left Weekly
From: http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/619/619p14.htm
CBS News reported on December 8 that the Pentagon has admitted that at least 5500 US military personnel have deserted since the war started in Iraq.

Is there any evidence that all 5500 , or even just a majority, deserted mainly for the reason they didn't want to fight in Iraq? Also, for comparison, how many deserted in the two years prior to the start of the war?

This post has been edited by Desron: Jul 4 2005, 08:30 AM

[Desron]

Come to think of it I don't recall a single news report of a soldier who died in the hospital in Germany or died during emergency transport out of Iraq.

A wounded soldier may not have been transported out of Iraq until he was in stable condition.

[Gabrielle]

A wounded soldier may not have been transported out of Iraq until he was in stable condition.

Yes, but where are what seems like should have been hundreds of reports of soldiers who have died in Landstuhl? If there are officially 15,000 wounded (presumably almost all of them sent to Landstuhl) how can it be that there are only a handfull of officially reported soldier deaths in Landstuhl? Many of the deceased would have lived long enough to make it to Landstuhl via air transport. But the complication rate from infection, and other causes of mortality would be expected to be higher than just a handfull.

Does anybody know what the death rate is for trauma codes in US emergency rooms and in the trauma units post op? My guess is that when you have 15,000 injured you're going to have at least several hundred who have died in Landstuhl. At least. Most of us have seen the men who have been horribly wounded on CNN - having lost arms and legs and horrible head injuries - it's a miracle of modern medicine that so many have been saved - but modern medicine didn't save all those men. Where are they listed?

[Gabrielle]

http://archsurg.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/a...act/139/11/1231

Results  Seven thousand four hundred twenty-three severe trauma patients were recorded. Inpatient death rates decreased significantly from 21.6% in 1997 to 14.7% in 2001. The odds ratios of mortality in 1998 through 2001 vs 1997, adjusted for year, age, sex, penetrating injury, and severity of injury (Injury Severity Score >25), were 0.92, 0.89, 0.70, and 0.65, respectively, confirming the downward trend.

If we take 15,000 and multiply it by 0.15 that gives us 2,250 deceased. And that's just the percentage of wounded that should have statistically died.

[Gabrielle]

http://www.facs.org/news/ntdbhighlights.html

Most violent deaths are due to gunshot wounds, which have the highest mortality rate of all types of injury (16.2 percent).

Thus 16.2 % of the 15,000 should have died - at least 16.2% because our men are not being shot at so much as they're being blown up with high explosives - the kind that are so explosive they're used to light nuclear fuses (if I recall a long ago discussion on this thread about the missing explosives in Iraq).

15,000 * 0.162 = 2,430 deceased. And this is in my estimation a very low estimate as I've mentioned these estimates are based on gunshot wounds not high explosives, which are invariably more deadly.

And if we take the total number of reported soldiers who were hit - wounded plus officially deceased that gives us a number of 17,000 = 2,764 deceased. if we're using a 16.2% mortality rate (undoubtedly low - but how much low, I don't know).

This post has been edited by Gabrielle: Jul 4 2005, 09:08 AM

[Desron]

Yes, but where are what seems like should have been hundreds of reports of soldiers who have died in Landstuhl?  If there are officially 15,000 wounded (presumably almost all of them sent to Landstuhl) how can it be that there are only a handfull of officially reported soldier deaths in Landstuhl?  Many of the deceased would have lived long enough to make it to Landstuhl via air transport.  But the complication rate from infection, and other causes of mortality would be expected to be higher than just a handfull. 

Does anybody know what the death rate is for trauma codes in US emergency rooms and in the trauma units post op?  My guess is that when you have 15,000 injured you're going to have at least several hundred who have died in Landstuhl.  At least.  Most of us have seen the men who have been horribly wounded on CNN - having lost arms and legs and horrible head injuries - it's a miracle of modern medicine that so many have been saved - but modern medicine didn't save all those men.  Where are they listed?

The great majority of those wounded were returned to active duty and about 2500 wounded in combat were evacuated.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops..._casualties.htm

Remember that Kerry himself was wounded three times in Vietnam and he didn't miss a day of duty from thsoe wounds.

This post has been edited by Desron: Jul 4 2005, 09:08 AM

[Gabrielle]

The great majority of those wounded were returned to active duty and about 2500 wounded in combat were evacuated.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops..._casualties.htm

Remember that Kerry himself was wounded three times in Vietnam and he didn't miss a day of duty from thsoe wounds.

Desron,
As a military man, I'm sure you are aware that it is common practice for the miltary to fudge the numbers regarding wounded and deceased.

OK, I see what you're saying - many of these wounded were not traumas. There is an argument to be made that the high explosives are so deadly that the men and women don't survive long enough to make it to the helicopter for transport out of Iraq. But it is my understanding that as soon as they get on the helicopter they are no longer counted in the official war casualty list.

According to this source you cited it lists 2,442 US Army Evacuations from Iraq
Wounded In Action which is 363 deaths in Landstuhl at least according to the 16.2 % mortality for gunshot wounds. So, how many of the officially listed are said to have died in Landstuhl?

This post has been edited by Gabrielle: Jul 4 2005, 09:15 AM

[MarionMansfield]

This is very interesting reading. I had just been taking the Defense Department's reports at face value. But, with this administration, I don't think we can take anything that way. I will be interested to see the follow-up on this matter. May our soldiers who have died rest in peace. God bless them and their families.

[Desron]

Desron,
As a military  man, I'm sure you are aware that it is common practice for the miltary to fudge the numbers regarding wounded and deceased.

OK, I see what you're saying - many of these wounded were not traumas.  There is an argument to be made that the high explosives are so deadly that the men and women don't survive long enough to make it to the helicopter for transport out of Iraq.  But it is my understanding that as soon as they get on the helicopter they are no longer counted in the official war casualty list.

If they didn't survive long enough to make it to a helicopter, they were then probably listed as KIA.

I don't know where you got your understanding that as soon as a wounded gets on a helicopter, they are no longer counted. The site I gave a link to provides the figures for such.