Missing Black Boxes WTC 9/11 Found..., Analyzed and Concealed... hmmm Options

[Magmak1]

Did the Bush Administration Lie to Congress and the 9/11 Commission?:

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks
Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI

"Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation's "War on Terror" and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information?"

http://www.counterpunch.com/lindorff12202005.html

[DWB04]

Just heard this on Mike Malloy (actually subbing for Rhandi Rhodes) he'll be discussing tomorrow....sheesh what else is going to be discovered ?????

Thnx for posting

[Pkemp22402]

Did the Bush Administration Lie to Congress and the 9/11 Commission?:

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks
Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI

"Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation's "War on Terror" and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information?"

http://www.counterpunch.com/lindorff12202005.html

Yes, but under what circumstances was it concealed by the FBI? What was there rationale behind concealing them?

[DWB04]

Yes, but under what circumstances was it concealed by the FBI?  What was there rationale behind concealing them?

that's the 64 Million dollar question.....and one that many have been asking regarding the whole incident ....

If we are to accept the official story, then what point is there in not releasing pertinent information that would dispel those doubts?

I personally do not accept the official story.

[jimiray]

This is kinda funny to me Personally. I have posted a lot of things about the Lies of 9-11 but have been Laughed down because of it. It's really hard for the average person to believe our own Government could pull off a crime of this nature against it's own people. But history has proved time and again that it has happened several times. Seems like it take Joe Six Pack 30 years to catch up with the times. Gulf of Tonkin = Big Lie.
Pearl Harbor = Let it Happen
9-11 = let it happen = hell , make or help it happen

This post has been edited by jimiray: Dec 20 2005, 10:19 PM

[real_democrat]

Counterpunch comes through again.

[Salute_Liberty]

Bush's consistent use of "National Security" is just a Commercialized and shimmering phrase to cover up all his errors, mistakes and crimes. He knows that that phrase sends all gullible citizens to think of terrorist attacks and start panicking. How credible is the Bushies' "National Security" if he keeps on hiding and hiding information, or know findings, like these missing Black Boxes" from Congress. Are the Bushies hiding something that would reflect their secret crimes? Why does America have a Congress if Bush keeps doing things as if he sees himself as God, and believes he's above American and International Law? Bush's leadership is no different from those of Charles VI, Mansur, Ivan The Terrible, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, and Saddam. And never forget that all these villainous leaders all had staunch supporters who made it rather easy for them to commit all crimes against humanity and broke laws after laws.

[Desron]

An excerpt from the above article:

There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them.

http://www.counterpunch.com/lindorff12202005.html


Started some google searching and was particulary interested in the two NY firefighters named above who claimed that three of the four black boxes were found. Mike Bellone, one of the two firefighters, worked on the Columbia space shuttle disaster cleanup.

"I can tell you this, though, it was all very strange. I worked on the spaceship Columbia clean-up and you know when something important is found and when something is not" he recalled, saying the day the 'black boxes' were secretly carted away agents acted like "something big was going down."

http://www.rense.com/general64/fbi.htm

Mike Bellone was interviewed by CNN about the shuttle clean-up

CASEY(CNN CORRESPONDENT): And also here to help are two people who know quite a bit about exhaustive searches and embattled and not quitting, two FDNY, they are firefighters who got -- Bob Barrett here and Mike Bellone, two guys who I know from down in lower Manhattan. They were working an exhaustive effort down at the World Trade Center. You guys didn't go home for a year. You're here to offer some moral support. What are you going to tell them?

MIKE BELLONE, NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT: Well, we wanted not only to give them some physical support, but also some emotional support, just like the support that we received during the 9/11 recovery effort. I mean, the support that they gave us was phenomenal, and the least we can do is just return that support back to them.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0302/08/cst.11.html

In the above interview, Mike is identified as a member of the New York Fire Department but in other articles, he is described as a honorary firefighter.

Honorary firefighter Mike Bellone claims he was approached by unknown bureau agents a short time after he and his partner Nicholas DeMasi, a retired New York firefighter, found three of the four "black boxes" among the WTC rubble before January 2002.

http://www.rense.com/general64/fbi.htm

Bellone has encounted some unrelated problems in connection with the TRAC group, however. In April, the New York Post reported (story not available online) that TRAC owned money to a number of creditors, including the company that published the book. Fire officials also told Bellone, who was made an honorary firefighter by a New York engine company, that he couldn’t wear an official uniform on school visits.

http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/extra/archives/001139.html

"Two years ago, when we started doing this, there was no rulebook telling us what we could or couldn't use," said Bellone, who was named an "honorary" firefighter by FDNY Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta.

http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/a...69§ionId=46

Did some more searching on Mike Bellone and found these articles:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: September 27, 2005

FIRE MARSHALS ARREST BROOKLYN MAN FOR POSSESSION OF STOLEN FDNY PROPERTY


Today, Fire Marshals from the New York City Fire Department’s Bureau of Fire Investigation announced the arrest of Michael Bellone, age 51 of 2473 65 th Street in Brooklyn , N.Y. Mr. Bellone was arrested at Fire Department Headquarters in downtown Brooklyn after being interviewed by Fire Marshals regarding an FDNY Scott air tank, harness, regulator and mask that were in his possession. The items were reported missing from the Fire Department’s Mask Service Unit on October 1, 2001.

Mr. Bellone is being charged with grand larceny, criminal impersonation and possession of stolen property.

Mr. Bellone was brought to the attention of the Fire Department last year after several complaints were made from across the country regarding the activities of the TRAC Team, a non-profit organization of which he is the CEO. Mr. Bellone travels around the country selling his book and displaying artifacts that he maintains to be from the World Trade Center site.

“The department commends the outstanding investigative efforts of the Fire Marshals for their diligence in apprehending Mr. Bellone,” said Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/pr/2005/092705_9105.shtml

October 19, 2005

MEQUON - Michael Bellone, the self-proclaimed "honorary New York firefighter," who spoke to 100-200 people at Concordia University about the events of 9-11 is a "fraud," according to New York Fire Marshal Conrad Tinney.

Tinney was one of the fire marshals who arrested Bellone, 51, of Brooklyn, N.Y., on Sept. 27, for having an FDNY Scott air tank, harness, regulator and mask. He was charged with grand larceny, criminal impersonation and possession of stolen property, but the charges were later dropped after Bellone returned the items.

Bellone told FDNY investigators the equipment was given to his charity - Trauma Response Assistance for Children (TRAC) Team - but didn’t tell FDNY fire marshals who donated the items.

  advertisement


"The charges may have been dropped, but the investigation is continuing," Tinney said. "We know he has a door off one of our engines destroyed in the attacks and some tools as well."

Bellone spoke Sept. 22 at a Concordia event organized by Student Life after an alum was in Oconomowoc during the week of Sept. 11 where Bellone spoke. It is unknown how much Concordia officials paid Bellone for his presentation.

"Concordia is very disappointed to learn that this presentation might not have been legitimate. Our students were very interested in the subject matter and obviously had we known what we know now about Michael Bellone we would not have allowed him to speak on campus," said Heidi Fendos, a spokesman for the university.

Tinney said he couldn’t elaborate any more on the investigation, but said Bellone volunteered at Ground Zero as a "citizen" and as a "volunteer" and collaborated on a book about the experience, and later, displayed some of the equipment at speeches to schoolchildren and adults across the country.

"It wasn’t until two years later that we began getting complaints about him," Tinney said. "We have one honorary firefighter and that is a child from the Make-A-Wish Foundation. Aside from the child, it is normally the chiefs and those above who are made honorary firefighters and he (Bellone) isn’t one. He’s saying he was made an honorary firefighter by New York Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta. That’s a fallacy."

After taking complaints, FDNY investigators questioned Bellone and discovered the breathing apparatus and other gear were missing from the fire department’s Mask Service Unit since Oct. 1, 2001.

Three years later, Tinney said Bellone was warned to return all of the FDNY equipment he had in his possession.

"We figured common sense would prevail and he would stop on his own," Tinney said. "There were times when he would show up at different events wearing New York Fire Department gear."

Tinney said investigations revealed Bellone has given more than 700 presentations across the country.

"The bottom line is that I have a problem with individuals who prey on the emotions of the general public based on a tragedy," Tinney said.

This story appeared in the Ozaukee County News Graphic on October 18, 2005.

http://www.gmtoday.com/news/local_stories/...10182005_10.asp

[Magmak1]

Very interesting, Desron. I tip my cap to you for doing a little extra work.
It's a good example of how a forum like this can work: Somebody takes something that's been offered up and takes it an extra step and then reports back on the findings.

[graham4anything]

Of course, trying to find stuff on someone who is a whistleblower in the age of Bush and then calling them crazy or a theif or this or that, is par for the course.

Remember Bushie tried to say Scott Ritter was a perve, yet 100 percent of everything Scott Ritter said about Iraq was proven true
Same with the nutjob Richard Clarke they described him at first.

And all the others.

We all know 9-11 was plotted, planned, and that the 2700 people died were just Bush's collateral damage.

19 bumbling pilots could not do what they did. It is impossible.
a little wind here or there and the planes would have landed in the water or elsewhere. It is all b.s.

Once you have a known liar like Bush, all things are lies.

(and sad to say, one of the biggest lies is that those firefighters were even needed. It was almost like Bush wanted them to go in and die so he would have somebody honorable to put up so no one would say anything.) The firefighters at the end of the day saved no one as the majority of the building was already empty while they marched in to die one behind the other (almost like penquins).

And if there was proper info, all the people in the second building could have escaped, as some came to the lobby only to be told to go back up to die after the first plane hit.

It is all a lie.

[Desron]

Here Mike Bellone has the title of "Fire Safety Director":

Talking to Kids About Terrorism — the New Post-9/11 Norms

Meryl Feiner
September 2002
“Why did God let such a bad thing happen?”

This was the first question asked of New York City firefighter Bob Barrett and Fire Safety Director Mike Bellone when they visited a Woodside, Queens day camp this summer. Many parents might be at a loss for words if asked this question by their own children; but these men, who were at Ground Zero throughout the entire recovery effort, are quick to turn such questions around and look at the situation from a positive perspective.

http://www.parentsknow.com/articles/articl...p?id=1031066144

Barrett, a 30-year New York City firefighter, was at home the day 14 fellow firefighters in his fire station - 343 in the entire department and about 2,800 people in all - died at the World Trade Center. But he worked tirelessly in the recovery effort, alongside Mike Bellone, a civilian fire safety director who was on the same recovery team.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wauk/dec02/102901.asp

Here, Mike Bellone has different titles:

Firefighters Mike Bellone and Bob Barrett, who worked 257 consecutive days recovering bodies and body parts from the debris, presented the flag to Willman at the end of a four-hour event Sunday in which they shared their experiences of the tragedy with the audience in Room 10-250.

World Trade Center Task Force Fire Safety Director Mike Bellone

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2002/911-sunday-0911.html

From left, Cornell Police Deputy Director Curtis Ostrander and Director William Boice receive an American flag that was used as a memorial flag at Ground Zero, from Bob Barrett and Mike Bellone of the New York City Fire Department. Barrett and Bellone, who were at Ground Zero 30 minutes after the Sept. 11, 2001, World Trade Center attacks, are on a tour around the country to thank agencies, such as Cornell Police, that sent volunteers to help in the rescue efforts for victims.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/03/1...-FDNY_flag.html

Bob Barrett, a retired fire chief from Ladder 20, Engine 1, lost almost his entire crew in the World Trade Center

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...mplate=printart

Apparently this Robert Barret isn't a member of the New York Fire Dept. either.

Clarification, 4/29/04 - The four attendees, including Michael Bellone, mentioned in this story as members of the New York City Fire Department, are, in fact, not members of the New York City Fire Department.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/200...s/22141245.html


Mr. Michael Bellone is listed here as a director of an organisation called "TRAC" (Trauma Response Assistance for Children)

http://www.tracteam.org/directors.php

TRAC has published the book "Ground Zero: Behind the Scenes" written by
by Nicholas De Masi.

http://www.tracteam.org/cart.php

DeMasi is mentioned in the article at CounterPunch where there is a link to in the first post of this thread.

There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them.

http://www.counterpunch.com/lindorff12202005.html

Here, Mike Bellone and Bob Barret are mentioned in a review of the book

The principle contributors, Mike Bellone and Robert Barrett,

http://www.firebooks.com/catalog.asp?CID=0...t&TP=32&Cat=466

In the book, Nicholas DeMaasi describes the recovery of the black boxes at the WTC.

One of the workers, New York City firefighter Nicholas DeMasi, has self-published a book with other Ground Zero workers in which he describes the recovery of the devices. 4  The book, Behind the Scenes: GROUND ZERO, A Collection of Personal Accounts, can be ordered through SummerOfTruth.org.

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/blackboxes.html

On page 108 comes the revelation:

"At one point I was assigned to take Federal Agents around the site to search for the black boxes from the planes. We were getting ready to go out. My ATV was parked at the top of the stairs at the Brooks Brothers entrance area. We loaded up about a million dollars worth of equipment and strapped it into the ATV. When we got into the ATV to take off, the agent accidentally pushed me forward. The ATV was already in reverse, and my foot went down on the gas pedal. We went down the stairs in reverse. Fortunately, everything was okay. There were a total of four black boxes. We found three."

http://www.summeroftruth.org/groundzero.html

[revenge]

It will come out the darkness always comes to light.

[lazyboy]

The collatoral damage is also part of the NWO aim to reduce the world's population by 2/3.
On the day of 9/11 I remember some African-looking woman dash out of the building saying that they were told to STAY WHERE THEY WERE and remain calm. She said that she thought 'I'm out of here,' and stayed alive. Who knows how many people (especially cool as cucumber Britons) politely did what they were told only to be blown up when the timers on the demolition bombs in the building went off and then they all got crushed to death. One day people will put Bush in the same category as Hitler and one below Saddam Hussein. I have found a couple of sites with lots of people (Muslims) being interviewed on one. To be sure to get the right one google Sheik Adel and find www.memritv.org. MEMRI TV. There is tons on 911 here.
Also, google Abdal Hakim Murad and find the www.allaahuakbar.net site. There are passenger lists and no names of Arabs on it.

[graham4anything]

George W. Bush don't like any people unless they have ties to billions of gallons of oil
I put nothing past the liar

[shah269]

this is a bit, no huge story. lets see if it makes it on to the vening news.
the evolution story didn't but lets see if this one does.
further more i would love to see the condition of these black boxes?
if they looked as if they just came from the box be warry!
but if they are chared and damaged then we may have hope of finding out exactly what happend.

[Desron]

Wrote an e-mail containing most of the info I found about Mr. Bellone to Dave Lindorff, author of the article published at CounterPunch, and I'll post his reply here if I get one.

[Arneoker]

Of course, trying to find stuff on someone who is a whistleblower in the age of Bush and then calling them crazy or a theif or this or that, is par for the course.

Remember Bushie tried to say Scott Ritter was a perve, yet 100 percent of everything Scott Ritter said about Iraq was proven true
Same with the nutjob Richard Clarke they described him at first.

And all the others.

I could state here that I have firsthand proof that George W. Bush has personally ordered the murder of dozens of people, but that would not be true.

But I could state it. I might have all sorts of reasons for doing so, perhaps connected to any number of personal problems that I might have.

Would something like what appears to be evidence that Bush violated the law in authorizing domestic spying support this hypothetical charge of mine, mean that what I said was likely to be true? Of course not.

Could Clark's charges be completely true, yet the charges of these firefighters be complete nonsense, inventions? Of course.

Desron has found some reason to think that these guys might have some crediblity problems. I think that she should be commended for doing this research.
Of course their charges could still be true, but if they are we should be able to find corroborating evidence.

[graham4anything]

I really don't care about this firefighter(s)

What I know is, in my mind, George Bush has lied about 9-11.

Too many discrepencies, coincidences, and the knowledge that Bush knew and stayed in the classroom so he had an alibi. Nothing will convince me it went down like it said.
Its just silly.

Everything else is diversion.One way or another.

[Arneoker]

I really don't care about this firefighter(s)

What I know is, in my mind, George Bush has lied about 9-11.

Too many discrepencies, coincidences, and the knowledge that Bush knew and stayed in the classroom so he had an alibi. Nothing will convince me it went down like it said.
Its just silly.

Everything else is diversion.One way or another.

If George Bush said, "No one in my Administration tried to pin 9/11 on Saddam regardless of the evidence, and the sun is shining today," what should we conclude?

I think that we could very plausibly conclude that he lied.

I don't think that we could plausibly conclude that everything he said was a lie. Particularly if he said things that can be independently confirmed by others.

BTW, I can confirm that the sun is shining in Washington, DC today.

[real_democrat]

Wrote an e-mail containing most of the info I found about Mr. Bellone to Dave Lindorff, author of the article published at CounterPunch, and I'll post his reply here if I get one.

But Lindorff's article is not based on Mike Bellone's and Nicholas De Masi's testimony, he only mentions them in passing...

There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.)

....It is based on an anonymous source at the NTSB, so I assume he will simply point that out.....

A source at the National Transportation Safety Board, the agency that has the task of deciphering the date from the black boxes retrieved from crash sites-including those that are being handled as crimes and fall under the jurisdiction of the FBI-says the boxes were in fact recovered and were analyzed by the NTSB.

"Off the record, we had the boxes," the source says. "You'd have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here."

And he points out the FBI is rather vague...

For its part, the FBI is still denying everything, though with curious bit of linguistic wiggle room. "To the best of my knowledge, the flight recording devices from the World Trade Center crashes were never recovered. At least we never had them," says FBI spokesman Stephen Kodak.