40,000 US Troops Have Deserted Since 2000 Options

[Solve et Coagula]

40,000 US Troops Have Deserted Since 2000

Thousands of Troops Say They Won’t Fight

By Ana Radelat, Gannett News Service

Saturday 05 August 2006

Swept up by a wave of patriotism after the US invasion of Iraq, Chris Magaoay joined the Marine Corps in November 2004.

The newly married Magaoay thought a military career would allow him to continue his college education, help his country and set his life on the right path.

Less than two years later, Magaoay became one of thousands of military deserters who have chosen a lifetime of exile or possible court-martial rather than fight in Iraq or Afghanistan.

"It wasn’t something I did on the spur of the moment," said Magaoay, a native of Maui, Hawaii. "It took me a long time to realize what was going on. The war is illegal."

Magaoay said his disillusionment with the military began in boot camp in Twentynine Palms, Calif., where a superior officer joked about killing and mistreating Iraqis. When his unit was deployed to Iraq in March, Magaoay and his wife drove to Canada, joining a small group of deserters who are trying to win permission from the Canadian government to stay.

"We’re like a tight-knit family," Magaoay said.

The Pentagon says deserters like Magaoay represent a tiny fraction of the nation’s fighting forces.

"The vast majority of soldiers who desert do so for personal, family or financial problems, not for political or conscientious objector purposes," said Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty, a spokesman for the Army.

Since 2000, about 40,000 troops from all branches of the military have deserted, the Pentagon says. More than half served in the Army. But the Army says numbers have decreased each year since the United States began its war on terror in Afghanistan.

Continue to read:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080506X.shtml

[Marine]

United States Marine Corps

Press Release
Public Affairs Office
American Forces Press Service; Jim Garamone


Contact:

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Release # 0811-06-0934
Services meet or exceed active duty recruiting goals for 14th straight month
Aug. 10, 2006

WASHINGTON -- All active-duty military components met or exceeded their July recruiting goals, Defense Department officials announced today, marking the 14th consecutive month the services have met or exceeded their goals.

The Army exceeded its goal of 10,450 recruits; it signed up 10,890 new soldiers, for 104 percent of its goal. The Navy and Air Force both came in at 100 percent, with 4,043 and 2,121 recruited respectively, while the Marine Corps hit 112 percent of its July goal, with 3,197 recruits.

"It demonstrates that men and women of military-service age are finding that they want to contribute in significant ways to this global war of terror and to protecting the freedoms that everyone in this country enjoys," DoD spokesman Bryan Whitman said.

On the reserve-component side, three of the six components made their goals, but all save one are on track to meet fiscal year goals. The Naval Reserve is at 84 percent of its goal for fiscal 2006. Navy officials said the service is having difficulty meeting the reserve mission. Part of this is because active-duty retention is so high. The Naval Reserve gets most of its people from those leaving active duty. Those people who normally go into the reserve are just not getting out of the active-duty Navy, officials said.

All the active-duty components are projected to meet their retention goals for the fiscal year, Whitman said. "Retention is so high, it is inconceivable that they wouldn't make their goals across all the services at this point," he said.

Officials said it is still a very difficult recruiting environment. The economy is doing well, with the unemployment rate being around 4.7 percent nationwide. Standards for enlistment remain high, and those that do not meet the standards do not enlist, officials said.

Role models who influence young men and women to enlist are more inclined to tell them to wait and see if conditions in Iraq change before enlisting, officials said.

Still, young men and women are volunteering to help their country in this time of war, Jeff Spara, chief of recruiting policy for the Army, said today. More recruiters are on the streets, and bonuses and incentives that Congress has given the military are kicking in.

No one is complacent, Spara told reporters in the Pentagon. "While this is a good news story, it can turn quickly," he said. "We can't let that happen."


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[david sobien]

Sounds like good news. But they forgot to tell you that they enlist mental cases, gang members and criminals. For example Mr. Green who raped and killed the Iraqi girl was a mental case with a criminal record. In addition they raised the maximun age for enlistments. Like in the Vietnam war, any warm body will do in Bush's Army.

[Pie]

Sounds like good news. But they forgot to tell you that they enlist mental cases, gang members and criminals. For example Mr. Green who raped and killed the Iraqi girl was a mental case with a criminal record. In addition they raised the maximun age for enlistments. Like in the Vietnam war, any warm body will do in Bush's Army.

Please back up such broad accusations with a link to facts.

[Marine]

Sounds like good news. But they forgot to tell you that they enlist mental cases, gang members and criminals. For example Mr. Green who raped and killed the Iraqi girl was a mental case with a criminal record. In addition they raised the maximun age for enlistments. Like in the Vietnam war, any warm body will do in Bush's Army.

Only in counterpunch David.

Raising the age was done because they had so many volunteers wanting to get in who were otherwise excluded.

The Army Raises Enlistment Age To 42
Staff Sgt. Stacy L. Pearsall
FORT KNOX, Ky. (Army News Service, June 22, 2006)The Army has raised the enlistment age to 42, made possible under provisions of the Fiscal Year 2006 National Defense Authorization Act.

The Army raised the active-duty age limit to 40 in January as an interim step while it worked out the additional medical screening requirements for recruits ages 40 to 42. Before January, an applicant could not have reached his or her 35th birthday. The Army Reserve age limit was raised from 35 to 40 in March 2005.

Raising the maximum age for Army enlistment expands the recruiting pool, provides motivated individuals an opportunity to serve and strengthens the readiness of Army units. More than 1,000 men and women over age 35 have already enlisted since the Army and Army Reserve raised their age limits to age 40.

“Experience has shown that older recruits who can meet the physical demands of Army service generally make excellent Soldiers. They are mature, motivated, loyal and patriotic, and bring with them a wealth of skills and experience to our Army,” said Col. Donald Bartholomew, U.S. Army Recruiting Command Assistant Chief of Staff, G5.

“We certainly do not expect for this change to result in a large increase of recruits, however it will allow for those individuals who have the passion for service, but for whatever reason could not serve earlier in their lives, the opportunity to serve the nation now, when the time is right for them,” he added.

All applicants must meet eligibility standards, to include passing the physical standards and medical examinations; however those 40 to 42 will be given additional medical screening.

For Shannon D. Morris, 36, of Shreveport, La., enlisting in the U.S. Army was a dream-come-true. She said she had wanted to join since she was a teenager but she didn’t get the chance.

“My brother was in the Army and it was always something that I wanted to do,” she said. “My father encouraged me to do it, but I became a mother at a young age and that took the priority.”

Morris thought she had lost her chance, but learned that the Army had raised its age limit when her son, Robert McLain, began talking with an Army recruiter. She said the more her son talked about his decision, the more interested she became in doing something for herself.

“When Robert told me I might still be young enough, the wheels started turning and I thought this might just be my last opportunity to get the benefits for my education and see the world.”

Morris said her family was surprised she wanted to enlist and serve, but they are supportive of her plans. Her mother thought it was a great idea and her husband Rick, a district fire chief who will retire this summer, encouraged her as well.

“My brother thought I was crazy,” she joked. “But he also thought it was great that I was doing it, and I couldn’t believe how supportive everyone was of me. It made me proud to know that they were all behind me.”

Morris, who will be a petroleum lab specialist, left for basic combat training May 25 and McLain followed May 30 to Fort Benning, Ga., where he began training to become a Ranger.

Recruits of all ages are eligible for the same enlistment bonuses and other incentives based on their individual qualifications.


http://www.army.com/news/item/2076

Maybe you can show us in the regulations where it is ok to enlist criminals, gang members, or mental misfits David. I can't find it, point it out to us.

Qualification Standards for Enlistment, Appointment, and Induction

A. GENERAL ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA1. Entrance Considerations. Accession of qualifiedindividuals shall be a priority when processing applicants for theMilitary Services.2. Eligibility. Eligibility shall be determined by theapplicant's ability to meet all requirements of this Directive, toinclude obtaining waivers. Applicants shall not be enlisted,appointed, or inducted unless fully qualified.B. BASIC ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA1. Agea. For service in the Active and Reserve components,the minimum age for enlistment is 17 years and the maximum age is35 years (See 10 U.S.C., 510, reference (a)).)The maximum agefor a prior service enlistee is determined by adding theindividual's years of prior service to 35. The Secretaries of theMilitary Departments concerned shall establish age standards forenlistment in the Reserve components (10 U.S.C., 510, reference(a) 1 .b. Age limitations for appointment as a commissioned orwarrant officer normally depend on the Service concerned. Inprescribing the age qualification for appointment as a Reserveofficer, the Secretary of the Military Department concerned maynot prescribe a maximum standard of less than 47 years for theinitial appointment of a person who will serve as a medical,dental, or nurse officer in a specialty designated by theSecretary concerned as critically needed in wartime. (see DODInstruction 1205.1 (reference ().)c. By law (10 U.S.C. 532, reference (a)), personsappointed as commissioned officers must be able to complete 20years of active commissioned service before their 55th birthday inorder to receive a Regular commission.The Secretary of theMilitary Department concerned may defer the retirement for certainhealth profession officers on a case-by-case basis (10 U.S.C.,1251 reference (a)).2-A
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2. Citizenshipa. To be eligible for enlistment in the Regular Army orAir Force, an individual must be an American citizen, or lawfullyadmitted to the United States for permanent residence (10 U.S.C.3253 and 8253, reference. (a)). There is no equivalent statutelimiting enlistment in the Regular Navy and Marine Corps, but theyusually apply the same citizenship requirements as those requiredfor the Army and Air Force.b. To be eligible for enlistment in the Reservecomponents, an individual must be a citizen of the United Statesor lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence(10 U.S.C., 510, reference (a)).C. To be eligible for appointment as a commissioned orwarrant officer, U.S. citizenship is required except for Reserveappointment where an individual must be lawfully admitted to theUnited States for permanent residence (Sections 532 and 591 ofreference (a)). For regular appointment, when tendered, U.S.citizenship is required. Law requires National Guard officers tobe U.S. citizens (32 U.S.C., 313, reference ©).d. Citizens of the Federated States of Micronesia orthe Republic of the Marshall Islands also are eligible forenlistment in the Active and Reserve components (see the Compactof Free Association (reference (d)).)3. Educationa. Possession of a high school diploma is desirable,although not mandatory, for enlistment in any component of theMilitary Services. Section 520 of reference (a) states, "A personwho is not a high school graduate may not be accepted forenlistment in the armed forces unless the score of that person onthe Armed Forces Qualification Test is at or above the thirty-first percentile; however, a person may not be denied enlistmentin the Armed Forces solely because of his not having a high schooldiploma if his enlistment is needed to meet established strengthrequirements." Alternative credential holders (i.e., GeneralEducation Development Certificates and certificates of attendanceand completion) and nongraduates may be assigned lower enlistmentpriority based on their first-term attrition rates.b. Educational requirements for appointment as acommissioned or warrant officer are determined by each MilitaryService. Generally, a bachelors degree is a required prerequisitefor a commission or appointment. In addition, special occupations(e.g., physician, chaplain) may require additional vocational2-2
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credentials, which are determined by the Secretary of the MilitaryDepartment concerned.4. Aptitudea. Overall aptitude requirements for enlistment andinduction are based on applicant scores on the Armed ForcesQualification Test (AFQT) derived from the Armed ServicesVocational Aptitude Battery. Applicant scores are grouped intopercentile categories. Persons who score in AFQT Category V(percentiles l-9) are, by law (10 U.S.C., 520 and DOD Directive1145.1 (references (a) and (e)), ineligible to enlist. By law (10U.S.C., 520, reference (a)), the number of persons who enlistduring any fiscal year who score in AFQT Category IV (percentiles10 to 30) may not exceed 20 percent of the total number of personsenlisted.The Secretary of Defense delegates to the Secretariesof the Military Departments the authority to specify morerestrictive aptitude standards for enlistment.b. Generally, for officers and warrant officers, nosingle test or instrument is used as an aptitude requirement forappointment.5. Physical Fitnessa. DOD Directive 6130.3 (reference (f)) establishes thestandards for entrance under the authority of 10 U.S.C. (reference(a)).b. The pre-accession screening process should bestructured to identify individuals with any medical condition thatdisqualifies an applicant for military service. Specifically,each applicant shall be independently evaluated by an authorizedphysician or a physician at a Military Entrance Processing Stationto ensure the applicant is:(1) Free of contagious or infectious diseases;(2) Free of medical conditions or physical defectsthat would require excessive time lost from duty or would likelyresult in separation from the Service for medical unfitness;(3) Medically capable of satisfactorily completingrequired training;(4) Medically adaptable to the militaryenvironment;(5) Medically capable of performing duties withoutaggravation of existing physical defects or medical conditions.2-3
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6. Dependency Statusa. Title 10 U.S.C.(reference (a)) does notspecifically address eligibility requirements for Single parents.b. The Military Services may not enlist marriedindividuals with more than two dependents under the age of 18 orunmarried individuals with custody of any dependents under the ageof 18. However, the Secretary of the Military Departmentconcerned may grant a waiver, for particularly promising entrants.c. The Military Services shall specify thecircumstances under which individuals who have dependents maybecome commissioned officers or warrant officers; variations inpolicy are affected by the commissioning source (e.g., ServiceAcademy vs. ROTC or Officer Candidate School; ROTC scholarshipstatus, etc.).7. Moral character. Persons entering the Armed Forcesshould be of good moral character. The underlying purpose ofmoral character enlistment standards is to minimize entrance ofpersons who are likely to become disciplinary cases or securityrisks or who disrupt good order, morale, and discipline. TheMilitary Services also have a responsibility to parents who expectthat their sons and daughters will not be placed into closeassociation with persons who have committed serious offenses orwhose records show ingrained delinquency behavior patterns. TheMilitary Services are responsible for the defense of the nationand should not be viewed as a source of rehabilitation for thosewho have not subscribed to the legal and moral standards ofsociety at large. Moral standards of acceptability for serviceare designed to disqualify the following kinds of persons:Individuals under any form of judicial restraint(bond, probation, imprisonment, or parole).b. Those with significant criminal records. Section504 of 10 U.S.C. (reference (a)) states that, "no person...who hasbeen convicted of a felony, may be enlisted in an Armed Force.However, the Secretary concerned may authorize exceptions inmeritorious cases, for the enlistment of...persons convicted offelonies." (1) Persons convicted of felonies may request awaiver to permit their enlistment. The waiver procedure is notautomatic, and approval is based on each individual case. One ofthe considerations in determining whether a waiver will be grantedis the individual's ability to adjust successfully to civilianlife for a period of time following his or-her release from 2-4
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judicial control.(2)In processing waiver requests, the Military'Services shall require information about the "who, what, when,where, and why" of the offense in question; and a number ofletters of recommendation attesting to the applicant's characteror suitability for enlistment.Such letters must be fromresponsible community leaders such as school officials, ministers,and law enforcement officials.c. Those who have been previously separated from theMilitary Services under conditions other than honorable or for thegood of the Service.d. Those who have exhibited antisocial behavior orother traits of character that would render them unfit toassociate with military personnel.8. Provision Related to Homosexual Conducta.Sexual orientation is considered a personal andprivate matter, and homosexual orientation is not a bar to serviceentry or continued service unless manifested by homosexualconduct. Applicants for enlistment, appointment, or inductionshall not be asked or required to reveal their sexual orientation.Applicants also will not be asked or required to reveal whetherthey have engaged in homosexual conduct, unless independentevidence is received indicating that an applicant engaged in suchconduct or unless the applicant volunteers a statement that he orshe is a homosexual or bisexual, or words to that effect.Applicants will be informed of separation policy.(Section 654 ofreference (a)).b. Homosexual conduct may be grounds for barring entryinto the Armed Forces. Homosexual conduct is a homosexual act, astatement by the applicant that demonstrates a propensity orintent to engage in homosexual acts, or a homosexual marriage orattempted marriage. Propensity to engage in acts means more than an abstract preference or desire to engage in homosexualacts; it indicates a likelihood that a Person engages in or willengage in homosexual acts.(1) An applicant shall be rejected for entry intothe Armed Forces if, in the course of the accession process,evidence is received demonstrating that the applicant engaged in,attempted to engage in, or solicited another to engage in a2-5
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homosexual act or acts, unless there is a further determinationthat:(a) Such acts are a departure from the applicant's usual and customary behavior; ( Such acts, under all the circumstances, are unlikely to recur;© Such acts were not accomplished by use of force, coercion,or intimidation, and;(d) The applicant does not have a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts.Such a determination will be made in the course of the normalaccession process.A homosexual act means (i) any bodily contact,actively undertaken or passively permitted, between members of the same sex for the purpose of satisfying sexual desires, and (ii)any bodily contact that a reasonable person would understand todemonstrate a propensity or intent to engage in an act describedin subparagraph (i).(2) An applicant shall be rejected for entry if he or she makes a statement that he or she is a homosexual or bisexual, or words effect,unless there is a furtherdetermination that the applicant has demonstrated that he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in, has apropensity to engage in,or intends to engage in homosexual acts. Such a determination will be made in the course of the normalaccession process.(3) An applicant shall be rejected for entry if,in the course of the accession process, evidence is receiveddemonstrating that an applicant has married or attempted to marrya person known to be of the same biological sex (as evidenced bythe external anatomy of the persons involved).c. Nothing in these procedures requires rejection forentry into the Armed Forces when the relevant Military ServiceCommand authority determines:(1) That an applicant or inductee made astatement, engaged in acts,or married or attempted to marry aperson of the same sex for the purpose of avoiding militaryservice, and(2) Rejection of the applicant or inductee wouldnot be in the best interest of the Armed Forces.2-6

[david sobien]

What has regulations to do with anything? They simply lie and everyone accepts the lie to get the warm body. As for Mr Green his story was in any newspaper you care to read. He was discharged prior to the crime being investigated when the Army discovered he had mental problems. Gang members in the military are a problem. Use Google and you will find stories. The Army cannot make enlistment numbers using the same standards used prior to the Iraq occupation.

[Pie]

What has regulations to do with anything? They simply lie and everyone accepts the lie to get the warm body. As for Mr Green his story was in any newspaper you care to read. He was discharged prior to the crime being investigated when the Army discovered he had mental problems. Gang members in the military are a problem. Use Google and you will find stories. The Army cannot make enlistment numbers using the same standards used prior to the Iraq occupation.

With all due respect, others take the time to provide links whenever possible when stating "facts." imho, that burden falls to the poster who is stating items as fact.

[flydangler]

Lookin' at who started this thread and the lack of veracity in most stuff he posts I was just gonna let it lie, eh? I mean just the figure of 40,000 American military deserters in the timeframe described methinks is somethin' we've discussed and dispelled here a coupla couple times before. Just the same it got resurrected, so I hadda check out some stuff 'bout it. The mention of where the article's author says he went to boot camp kinda made me wonder if she's not really a former CGCSer from Boise who kinda tended to get stuff like that wrong too.

Looks kinda like there was one lonely story on Gannett’s News Service that got carried in a couple papers, then really took off on the anti war blogs, eh? Now this fella, who took off more'n a few months ago, seems to be the latest cause celebre of the radical anti war crowd. Methinks this site goes into that a bit more.

Besides repeatin' the Gansett story by someone who's past writin', if you bother to check it out, seems to be mainly anti American military stuff there really ain't much else out there. Did find an article dated May 01, 2006 from his hometown paper notin' he's gettin' no support or sympathy from his family. 'Twould seem from this Guardian article from June 18, 2006 that at least Cindy Sheehan believes he done right, eh?

Methinks he'll not be findin' any more success in gettin' permanent refuge in Canada than other American deserters have. This Calgary Sun column dated July 16, 2006 might give a bit of insight how many Canadians are startin' to view American military deserters runnin' up there.

When he gets hauled in front of a courts martial, as methinks eventually will happen, I'd be bettin' he'll not get off as easy as Pablo Paredes did or Army LT Ehren Watada will, but they both had the balls to stay home and press their positions. Not this guy!

Please back up such broad accusations with a link to facts.

Hope you weren't inna hurry for that to happen, eh? Methinks you'll find he never backs up anything he says. Best just to ignore his less than erudite notes.

[david sobien]

PIE...Read the newspapers like I do and you would know the facts. Its not my job to educate you. If you were really interested you could Google anything I mentioned.

[flydangler]

See that Pie? Methinks the trend's not broken. Methinks 'tis kinda like what you'd hear from an IRS agent, no real explanation, just "'Cause I said so!", eh?

[david sobien]

Ok read todays Wasington Post story on a GAO report on military recruiting. Those are just the recruters that have been caught. You cannot really blame the recruiters because they have the impossible job of selling Bush's war. The quality of recruits has to fall since you have to be really dumb to sign up for Iraq. The duty consists of driving around until someone blows you up.

[Marine]

Ok read todays Wasington Post story on a GAO report on military recruiting. Those are just the recruters that have been caught. You cannot really blame the recruiters because they have the impossible job of selling Bush's war. The quality of recruits has to fall since you have to be really dumb to sign up for Iraq. The duty consists of driving around until someone blows you up.

You mean be a soldier and it means you're a failure David?
http://www.armypays.com/
Who said the quality of recruits has fallen?
http://www.silanis.com/site/_media/static/...m_CaseStudy.pdf
And you have to be really dumb to go and fight in Iraq?
http://www.defendamerica.mil/downloads/fac...t_20050317.html
Yeah David, Grunts are dummies, eh?
http://www.alionscience.com/stories/index....tails&storyID=6

[SFC_White]

Sounds like good news. But they forgot to tell you that they enlist mental cases, gang members and criminals. For example Mr. Green who raped and killed the Iraqi girl was a mental case with a criminal record. In addition they raised the maximun age for enlistments. Like in the Vietnam war, any warm body will do in Bush's Army.

Even though our current commander in Chief has the last name Bush; I am not a member of a private militia belonging to or named BUSH.

You sir are really getting under my skin with this comment. The US (thats United States if you didn't know) Army has been around for a few centuries longer then any one President.

This post has been edited by SFC_White: Aug 15 2006, 10:55 AM

[Marine]

Even though our current commander in Chief has the last name Bush;  I am not  a member of a private militia belonging to or named BUSH. 

You sir are really getting under my skin with this comment. The US (thats United States if you didn't know) Army has been around for a few centuries longer then any one President.

You don't know how many times I've not posted what I really thought SFC White, the edit speaks volumns and I know how you feel and since you are a gentleman I got a good idea what was edited off.

[david sobien]

I disagree. Bush has been president for almost 6 years. Its his Sec. of Defence. Its his Sec. of Army. The generals in charge are all Bush chosen hacks who just say yes. Anyone with any intelligence has since retired or has been forced out. You see it is Bush's Army built to his likeing. I am currently reading FIASCO, a book about the Iraq war which describes the failures of the Bush generals and the civilians put in charge of Iraq. The results in Iraq speaks for itself. If you people cant handel the truth, to bad. I am with the 60% of the American people who has had enough. If anyone does not like it, thats your problem. Join up and go ride around until some one blows you up. Thats the Bush way (except for himself and his family of course). As to the quality of the recruits Mr Green speaks volumes. He would never made it into the pre Iraq Army. And yes you have to be an idiot to join up for Iraq. I would tell anyone wishing a military career to at least wait until Bush is out of office and we have proper leadership. Marine read the WP article about recruiting and try spinning that one.

[Frenchy]

You really are an obnoxious jerk, David!...You can delete this if you want, Cardinal. It just made me feel better to say it.

[cardinal]

I disagree. Bush has been president for almost 6 years. Its his Sec. of Defence. Its his Sec. of Army. The generals in charge are all Bush chosen hacks who just say yes. Anyone with any intelligence has since retired or has been forced out. You see it is Bush's Army built to his likeing. I am currently reading FIASCO, a book about the Iraq war which describes the failures of the Bush generals and the civilians put in charge of Iraq. The results in Iraq speaks for itself. If you people cant handel the truth, to bad. I am with the 60% of the American people who has had enough. If anyone does not like it, thats your problem. Join up and go ride around until some one blows you up. Thats the Bush way (except for himself and his family of course). As to the quality of the recruits Mr Green speaks volumes. He would never made it into the pre Iraq Army. And yes you have to be an idiot to join up for Iraq. I would tell anyone wishing a military career to at least wait until Bush is out of office and we have proper leadership. Marine read the WP article about recruiting and try spinning that one.

SFC White is active duty and guess where he is?
David, I'm afraid I'm going to have to award you this. You've earned it.

[tomhye]

I can Mozart the truth, screw Handel! Yeah, some sociopathic punks are running things, but I've known top notch men who stick it out in times like these and the idiots who spit on returning vets don't help anyone except the shrinks!

[SFC_White]

I disagree. Bush has been president for almost 6 years. Its his Sec. of Defence. Its his Sec. of Army. The generals in charge are all Bush chosen hacks who just say yes. Anyone with any intelligence has since retired or has been forced out. You see it is Bush's Army built to his likeing. I am currently reading FIASCO, a book about the Iraq war which describes the failures of the Bush generals and the civilians put in charge of Iraq. The results in Iraq speaks for itself. If you people cant handel the truth, to bad. I am with the 60% of the American people who has had enough. If anyone does not like it, thats your problem. Join up and go ride around until some one blows you up. Thats the Bush way (except for himself and his family of course). As to the quality of the recruits Mr Green speaks volumes. He would never made it into the pre Iraq Army. And yes you have to be an idiot to join up for Iraq. I would tell anyone wishing a military career to at least wait until Bush is out of office and we have proper leadership. Marine read the WP article about recruiting and try spinning that one.

Augh.... I remember you; the guy who invests in Exxon and then complains about the price of gas. I guess Bush's 6 years put my 23 years of service to shame and if I was some wishy washy don't get my way so I guess I'll quit punk I guess I'd do just that... Well I'm not.

News flash for you "DS"; I may be unhappy with whats going on as much as the next guy but without any clear alternative the 60% of the people either won't vote or vote for the "devil they know" so keep buying your Oil stocks so you can retire a wealthy but not so wise man...

This post has been edited by SFC_White: Aug 15 2006, 11:29 PM

[SFC_White]

SFC White is active duty and guess where he is?
David, I'm afraid I'm going to have to award you this.  You've earned it.

Cardinal; I got back State side beginning of June; but I think Dave still should get his award, after all he has earned it.