40,000 US Troops Have Deserted Since 2000 Options

[Marine]

I'm not even close to convinced Iraq will succeed, I think that would take serious policy changes (such as getting rid of the corporate scams in the rebuilding and letting Iraqis get more jobs and business). I do agree we can't just pull out, especially from the Kurdish area.

I'll agree with you on that Tom. The Marshall Plan worked because it put Germans back to work.

What they need is a hardnosed General doling out the funds and demanding a strict accountability.

I always liked the phrase the Czar of Russia cautioned his Generals and Ministers with upon embarking upon WW1.

"Gentlemen.....no stealing."

Too bad they didn't listen to him.

This post has been edited by Marine: Aug 25 2006, 11:24 AM

[Marine]

[wundermaus]

Now that Iraq is in a free fall civil war, let's send in more American troops (backdoor draft?) and kill them there while Osama Bin Laden hides and plans the next US attack in Pakistan.

[Marine]

Now that Iraq is in a free fall civil war, let's send in more American troops (backdoor draft?) and kill them there while Osama Bin Laden hides and plans the next US attack in Pakistan.

[Marine]

Now that Iraq is in a free fall civil war, let's send in more American troops (backdoor draft?) and kill them there while Osama Bin Laden hides and plans the next US attack in Pakistan.

[Marine]

Now that Iraq is in a free fall civil war, let's send in more American troops (backdoor draft?) and kill them there while Osama Bin Laden hides and plans the next US attack in Pakistan.

[wundermaus]

4 MORE YEARS! 4 MORE YEARS! 4 MORE YEARS!

[wundermaus]

4 MORE YEARS! 4 MORE YEARS! 4 MORE YEARS!

[TheRestofUs]

A third of the Colonists were Loyalists to King George Marine. Just like today. Deja Vu all over again. That cartoon represents to me those who support an Un-American self proclaimed King, who has betrayed the Revolution Washington fought for!

This post has been edited by TheRestofUs: Aug 25 2006, 03:22 PM

[david sobien]

The Iraqi security services you speak of are Shia death squads started by the same Americans who ran them in Central America. The Iraqi military could not opperate without American backup. We have the same Bush generals promising the same victory as was promised years ago. They say victory will occur after the next security sweep. I heard that in Vietnam years ago. I did not believe it then and do not believe it now. I do not care about what the Iraqis do to each other. Thats their problem. I only care about our soldiers in body bags and without arms and legs.

[flydangler]

Was pretty tempted, but methinks I'll pass. Instead I'll just ask if a former IRS agent with petrochemical holdings farts in the woods does anybody hear it, eh?

[Terra]

40,000 US Troops Have Deserted Since 2000

Thousands of Troops Say They Won’t Fight
 
By Ana Radelat, Gannett News Service

Saturday 05 August 2006

Swept up by a wave of patriotism after the US invasion of Iraq, Chris Magaoay joined the Marine Corps in November 2004.

The newly married Magaoay thought a military career would allow him to continue his college education, help his country and set his life on the right path.

Less than two years later, Magaoay became one of thousands of military deserters who have chosen a lifetime of exile or possible court-martial rather than fight in Iraq or Afghanistan.

"It wasn’t something I did on the spur of the moment," said Magaoay, a native of Maui, Hawaii. "It took me a long time to realize what was going on. The war is illegal."

Magaoay said his disillusionment with the military began in boot camp in Twentynine Palms, Calif., where a superior officer joked about killing and mistreating Iraqis. When his unit was deployed to Iraq in March, Magaoay and his wife drove to Canada, joining a small group of deserters who are trying to win permission from the Canadian government to stay.

"We’re like a tight-knit family," Magaoay said.

The Pentagon says deserters like Magaoay represent a tiny fraction of the nation’s fighting forces.

"The vast majority of soldiers who desert do so for personal, family or financial problems, not for political or conscientious objector purposes," said Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty, a spokesman for the Army.

Since 2000, about 40,000 troops from all branches of the military have deserted, the Pentagon says. More than half served in the Army. But the Army says numbers have decreased each year since the United States began its war on terror in Afghanistan.

Continue to read:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080506X.shtml

I hate coming back from a brisk (but very good) election period to read stuff that I have to go look for, please post a link.

A Dept. of Defense (is it real I don't know, I didn't check the DoD files or even know if I can)

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/...P607170349.html

Looks to me, even going by this chart that there is LESS desertion in the past 4 years than the years previous. Of course, I can't see the numbers prior to 2000 - which would be a better comparison.

[Marine]

The Iraqi security services you speak of are Shia death squads started by the same Americans who ran them in Central America. The Iraqi military could not opperate without American backup. We have the same Bush generals promising the same victory as was promised years ago. They say victory will occur after the next security sweep. I heard that in Vietnam years ago. I did not believe it then and do not believe it now. I do not care about what the Iraqis do to each other. Thats their problem. I only care about our soldiers in body bags and without arms and legs.

[Marine]

I hate coming back from a brisk (but very good) election period to read stuff that I have to go look for, please post a link.

A Dept. of Defense (is it real I don't know, I didn't check the DoD files or even know if I can)

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/...P607170349.html

Looks to me, even going by this chart that there is LESS desertion in the past 4 years than the years previous. Of course, I can't see the numbers prior to 2000 - which would be a better comparison.

The story about military desertion has been hitting the blogs and anti-war sites regularly for the past three years. The anti-war people in desparation think the American public will fall for their shell game if they use enough smoke and mirrors.

I had people desert or go UA on me. 99% of the time it is because of some personal crisis in their life, i.e. Mom had a stroke or Suzie sends a dear John letter.

Most the time they got leave available and if they'd asked they'd got permission to go no problem. Even if they didn't have leave available, if they'd asked it would have been no problem.

They get bad news and they take off without thinking. They know if they was there they could make it right. Once they get there they realize they went UA and then they are afraid to deal with it.

I wonder why the anti-war movement relies so heavy on fraud and humbug. Must be the nature of their message, eh?


Military desertion rate drops drastically since 9/11
8,000 desert during Iraq war

8,000 during the Iraq war sounds real bad, but let's try something different for a change and put it into perspective:

Desertion numbers have dropped since 9/11. The Army, Navy and Air Force reported 7,978 desertions in 2001, compared with 3,456 in 2005. The Marine Corps showed 1,603 Marines in desertion status in 2001. That had declined by 148 in 2005.
Although a lot of people probably don't know it, desertion isn't an uncommon problem in the military and there are a lot of reasons people desert besides war.
"The last thing they want is for people to think ... that this is like Vietnam," says Tod Ensign, head of Citizen Soldier, an anti-war group that offers legal aid to deserters.
Besides a bit of curiosity to know what's behind that "...", I would like to point out that a big reason the military doesn't want people to think this is like Vietnam is because it isn't like Vietnam. Isn't this quote a bit like finding someone who says "The last thing they want is for people to think that Fallujah was like the battle of Antietam."?

At least the article has the decency to point out that the Army's desertion rate was 3.4% during Vietnam and that the entire military's desertion rate in 2005 was 0.24%.

And, lest anyone try to claim that the headline isn't misleading, there's this:

There is only one known case of desertion in Iraq.

[Terra]

Marine,

That's the part that angers me. We can't get the truth out of either party, right or left, to save our souls. I'm anti-war, pro-military, pro-truth. When either side spins it so badly to try and shed a better light on their arguement, they hurt everyone.

I've done more poking in the desertion data, talked to my dad this morning about it - and it appears, just as you stated the numbers are way down the past 4 years.

Of course, now you'll have others screaming - But they love to kill or some other such silly nonsense.

The story about military desertion has been hitting the blogs and anti-war sites regularly for the past three years.  The anti-war people in desparation think the American public will fall for their shell game if they use enough smoke and mirrors.

I had people desert or go UA on me.  99% of the time it is because of some personal crisis in their life, i.e. Mom had a stroke or Suzie sends a dear John letter.

Most the time they got leave available and if they'd asked they'd got permission to go no problem.  Even if they didn't have leave available, if they'd asked it would have been no problem.

They get bad news and they take off without thinking.  They know if they was there they could make it right.  Once they get there they realize they went UA and then they are afraid to deal with it.

I wonder why the anti-war movement relies so heavy on fraud and humbug.  Must be the nature of their message, eh?
Military desertion rate drops drastically since 9/11
8,000 desert during Iraq war

8,000 during the Iraq war sounds real bad, but let's try something different for a change and put it into perspective:

Desertion numbers have dropped since 9/11. The Army, Navy and Air Force reported 7,978 desertions in 2001, compared with 3,456 in 2005. The Marine Corps showed 1,603 Marines in desertion status in 2001. That had declined by 148 in 2005.
Although a lot of people probably don't know it, desertion isn't an uncommon problem in the military and there are a lot of reasons people desert besides war.
"The last thing they want is for people to think ... that this is like Vietnam," says Tod Ensign, head of Citizen Soldier, an anti-war group that offers legal aid to deserters.
Besides a bit of curiosity to know what's behind that "...", I would like to point out that a big reason the military doesn't want people to think this is like Vietnam is because it isn't like Vietnam. Isn't this quote a bit like finding someone who says "The last thing they want is for people to think that Fallujah was like the battle of Antietam."?

At least the article has the decency to point out that the Army's desertion rate was 3.4% during Vietnam and that the entire military's desertion rate in 2005 was 0.24%.

And, lest anyone try to claim that the headline isn't misleading, there's this:

There is only one known case of desertion in Iraq.

[piccadilly]

I'll agree with you on that Tom.  The Marshall Plan worked because it put Germans back to work.

while putting americans out of work.

What they need is a hardnosed General doling out the funds and demanding a strict accountability.
...

hum, someone who should assume responsibility and command as ... Saddam Hussein ?

This post has been edited by picadilly: Aug 28 2006, 10:56 AM

[david sobien]

Do flys hang around in the woods smelling farts? Sounds like you have been reading the Bush Fart joke book. You know, the only book available in the Bush beach house is a fart joke book. They are big on farts. Sounds like the joke is on you sence you seem to like the same material and buy the Bush administration propaganda that victory is just around the corner if we just stay the course. And by the way we should attack Iran also. Thats part of the program. Fortunately 60% of Americans are starting to see the truth that we are led by morons who are not capable of winning any war. I belong to that majority.

[Marine]

Marine,

That's the part that angers me. We can't get the truth out of either party, right or left, to save our souls. I'm anti-war, pro-military, pro-truth. When either side spins it so badly to try and shed a better light on their arguement, they hurt everyone.

I've done more poking in the desertion data, talked to my dad this morning about it - and it appears, just as you stated the numbers are way down the past 4 years.

Of course, now you'll have others screaming - But they love to kill or some other such silly nonsense.

Well terra, you will probaly never find a group of people more against war as the professional warrior. We witness first hand what a mess it is.

War is a failure, war is a waste, war happens when the diplomats can't work things out. Don't jump on the bandwagon and make the assumption it's always the American diplomats who fail, sometime's it's the other guy's fault.

I served under six different presidents 4 republicans and 2 democrats. Somehow I ended up voting for the one who won everytime except for Carter in 1980 and Al Gore in 2000. So my guy lost a couple of times, I put it behind me and know this country is a whole lot bigger than who happens to be president right now. Everyone in the military takes that attitude, be glad because if we didn't we'd be having a coup or attempted coup every four years.

I have trouble figuring out this rabid hate that is displayed for who ever ends up being president. I saw it against Clinton and I see it against Bush. Sometimes I think some of these people would prefer to the the USA fail just to make whoever is president at the moment look bad.

Probably the worst thing you will ever hear me say bad about Bush is he ought to keep his mouth shut because he sure ain't a public speaker.

[TheRestofUs]

Well terra, you will probaly never find a group of people more against war as the professional warrior.  We witness first hand what a mess it is.

War is a failure, war is a waste, war happens when the diplomats can't work things out.  Don't jump on the bandwagon and make the assumption it's always the American diplomats who fail, sometime's it's the other guy's fault.

I served under six different presidents 4 republicans and 2 democrats.  Somehow I ended up voting for the one who won everytime except for Carter in 1980 and Al Gore in 2000.  So my guy lost a couple of times, I put it behind me and know this country is a whole lot bigger than who happens to be president right now.  Everyone in the military takes that attitude,  be glad because if we didn't we'd be having a coup or attempted coup every four years.

I have trouble figuring out this rabid hate that is displayed for who ever ends up being president.  I saw it against Clinton and I see it against Bush.  Sometimes I think some of these people would prefer to the the USA fail just to make whoever is president at the moment look bad.

Probably the worst thing you will ever hear me say bad about Bush is he ought to keep his mouth shut because he sure ain't a public speaker.

Good points Marine. I can respect that. But to me Bush43 is "special".

[david sobien]

Bush 41 was qualified to be president of the US. Bush 43 did not know the difference between a Shia and a Sunni 2 years after he invaded Iraq. Its not just that he is not a public speaker. He is simply not qualified to be president and it seems never will be. He is the type of guy that will fight to last drop of YOUR blood. At least his father did not duck real military service.