Pell Grant - Federal Student Aid, Could Affect 1 Mil Students Options

[Pie]

This is disgusting news- typical of Bushco: let's keep the electorate ill-informed and uneducated.

Such short term thinking, though. The jobs available now require an education. So, will this come back to bite the repubs in the **se ? What happens when the ranks of the unemployed and unemployable rise even more ?

[kindergarten tea...]

Thursday, December 23, 2004 
 

California Educator
Volume 9, Issue 4
 
As waves of college students flood campuses throughout California over the next decade, the forecast for their future may be less than sunny. Some believe that a "perfect storm" looming on the horizon threatens California's higher education system.

http://www.cta.org/CaliforniaEducator/v9i4/Feature_1.htm

This poses a double wammy for our college bound students in California. How many other states are faced with this problem? Bush must put money into Education for the future of America!

 

[barkeeper]

This is disgusting news-  typical of Bushco:  let's keep the electorate ill-informed and uneducated. 

Such short term thinking, though.  The jobs available now require an education.  So, will this come back to bite the repubs in the **se ?  What happens when the ranks of the unemployed and unemployable rise even more ? 

Ahem, uh seems the Washington Post, which ran this story 12/24 ran a "correction" 12/25. Seems there is a net increase of about 25,000 eligible students. The new rules do not so much cut funding, Pell Grants as structured are open ended budget items. If one qualifies, one gets the grant. If the gov't has to borrow to pay it, they do, which is why the program is running a $4 billion deficit.

The prime change is to update the baseline data from 1990 to 2002 as relate to state and local taxes assumed. Since most states have increased taxes in the last 12 years, this actually benefits most applicants.

Some students, as many as 85,000 may see grants reduced or cut out, but nearly all are from families in the top 5% of income, $35,000 to $40,000.

Now I get a bit personal. Step-daughter went to college ten years ago when our household income was about $25,000, no grant. We're not talking Harvard, but a good state university here. I would not dream of having the unmitigated gall to ask the gov't to pick my neighbor's pocket for my kid if I'm knocking down 30K+.

Sell the extra car, second mortgage, cut here, some part time there, and it wouldn't kill the kid to work a few hours a week, AFTER you've done all that come tell me your sad story. We just did that and nobody heard our sad story.

[teacher731]

Ahem, uh seems the Washington Post, which ran this story 12/24 ran a "correction" 12/25. Seems there is a net increase of about 25,000 eligible students. The new rules do not so much cut funding, Pell Grants as structured are open ended budget items. If one qualifies, one gets the grant. If the gov't has to borrow to pay it, they do, which is why the program is running a $4 billion deficit.

The prime change is to update the baseline data from 1990 to 2002 as relate to state and local taxes assumed. Since most states have increased taxes in the last 12 years, this actually benefits most applicants.

Some students, as many as 85,000 may see grants reduced or cut out, but nearly all are from families in the top 5% of income, $35,000 to $40,000.

Now I get a bit personal. Step-daughter went to college ten years ago when our household income was about $25,000, no grant. We're not talking Harvard, but a good state university here. I would not dream of having the unmitigated gall to ask the gov't to pick my neighbor's pocket for my kid if I'm knocking down 30K+.

Sell the extra car, second mortgage, cut here, some part time there, and it wouldn't kill the kid to work a few hours a week, AFTER you've done all that come tell me your sad story. We just did that and nobody heard our sad story.

Tuition costs have skyrocketed since your stepdaugter went to school, while wages haven't kept up with the pace. then, of course you have the cost of living. If you have $30K in 2004 and have a family, you fit the poverty label. And, if you sell your car, how does one get to work, especially if one lives in a city and works in the burbs, another trend that has changed since your kid went to school. Sounds like Dad needs an education about real-life, 2004! :D

[big sky brad]

Man, they will do anything to line the pockets of the war machine CEO's!

[flydangler]

Tuition costs have skyrocketed since your stepdaugter went to school, while wages haven't kept up with the pace.  then, of course you have the cost of living.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, methinks you're saying big sky brad was incorrect in saying "Man, they will do anything to line the pockets of the war machine CEO's!" and it's really the institutes of higher education that be gouging us? If tuition costs have risen so dramatically over the rates wages and cost of living have gone up methinks gouging be the only answer, eh? That certainly makes more sense.

[kindergarten tea...]

I got my neatoday magazine yesterday in the mail. This is an article on POST-ELECTION-WHAT NOW?

http://www.nea.org/neatoday/0501/election.html

Post-Election
January 2005

What Now?

The post-election bad news: budget woes, vouchers, and a blurred line between church and state. The good news: A golden opportunity to reshape the Republican Party.

The votes have been counted, the analyses rendered, the congrats passed along to newly re-elected President George W. Bush. Now, says NEA President Reg Weaver, the real work begins—and seeking common ground with the Administration in the name of great public schools tops the NEA agenda.

But first draw a deep breath. The President's own plan calls for, among other things, the partial privatization of Social Security, a fight to secure a role for faith-based charities in government programs, a renewed push for private tuition vouchers, and expansion of the so-called No Child Left Behind law (NCLB), including more high-stakes testing in high schools.

More daunting: Public education, which barely surfaced as a voter concern in November, must compete head-on in the next budget with other domestic programs, to a backdrop of record budget deficits, supplemental appropriations for the Iraq war, and Administration plans to extend existing federal tax cuts.

Not bleak enough? NEA chief lobbyist Randy Moody says labor organizations, which largely backed the presidential candidacy of John Kerry, can likely expect anti-union legislation, microscopic federal audits, and Administration attempts to privatize government work "at every opportunity."

But Moody, a longtime Republican, says NEA members don't have to accept the rightward drift of GOP policies. NEA Republicans, who comprise one-third of the Association membership, need to become much more active in the GOP, "from the precinct level up to change this from a party with an anti-public education majority to one with a pro-public education majority."

A precedent for this realignment already exists in Congress, Moody points out. Republican (and Democratic) moderates have consistently opposed school vouchers and "realized the importance of federal education programs; they don't want to see them dry up," he notes. "They recognize how federal support for Title I and special education programs are key to the financial solvency of states and school districts." NEA will build on that bipartisan support in the GOP-dominated 109th Congress by lobbying in these key areas:

Federal funding. Push to maximize federal funding for public education, particularly for Title I, IDEA, teacher quality, Pell Grants, E-Rate, and other critical programs. Work to block any newly proposed subsidies of private and religious K–12 education and minimize further erosion of the federal government's overall revenue-raising capacity.

No Child Left Behind law. Advance a proactive agenda in anticipation of Administration high school "reform" efforts and the congressional reauthorization of NCLB in 2007. Seek funding needed to effectively implement NCLB requirements and work to alter the definition of "highly qualified teacher" to include teachers with full licensure/certification under state standards. Work to give states more flexibility in measuring schools' "adequate yearly progress" and in applying sanctions to schools identified as needing improvement. Seek provisions that would require supplemental service providers to fully comply with federal civil rights laws and that would require states and local school districts to fully fund the costs of testing, continuing education, and training of paraeducators seeking to meet new quality standards.

Vouchers. Fight to block passage of measures that would divert public resources to private, religious, or home school K–12 use. Fight any nationwide voucher or voucher demonstration program and any federal tax credits or deductions for private, religious, or home school K–12 expenses. Work to "defund" vouchers for District of Columbia schools.

[barkeeper]

So, if I'm reading this correctly, methinks you're saying big sky brad was incorrect in saying "Man, they will do anything to line the pockets of the war machine CEO's!" and it's really the institutes of higher education that be gouging us? If tuition costs have risen so dramatically over the rates wages and cost of living have gone up methinks gouging be the only answer, eh? That certainly makes more sense.

Actually, there is a considerable evidence that too free a hand with both Pell grants and Student Loans have exacerbated the cost spiral especially so in upscale institutions. From the university's point of view this is all free money, why do they care if the former student starts his professional life $100,000 or more in debt, they got theirs, up front.

One symptom is the number of tenured professors who spend little or no actual classroom time, and God forbid they waste any of that on an undergrad. Prime example would be Maya Angelou, of Clinton inauguration fame. Whatever one thinks of her politics or her poetry, she put a first class raping on Wake Forest, barely deigning to even walk through a class in session, but getting six figures to adorn Wake's letterhead.

Actually, going back to "teacher 731", I could still manage to put the kid through our local state school, it never got in the bidding wars for marquee names and its tuition has increased, but not "spiraled". Still good enough to have served quite a few prominent people. Also, when we sold the car we didn't walk, we sold the third car and traded another down to a reliable older model, which incidentally, I still drive.

Call me old fashioned, but I cannot justify to myself asking the gov't to pick my neighbor's pocket so I can do as I like and not have to trade in the new minivan.

[teacher731]

So, if I'm reading this correctly, methinks you're saying big sky brad was incorrect in saying "Man, they will do anything to line the pockets of the war machine CEO's!" and it's really the institutes of higher education that be gouging us? If tuition costs have risen so dramatically over the rates wages and cost of living have gone up methinks gouging be the only answer, eh? That certainly makes more sense.

methinks you misunderstood what me said, so let me repeat it- tuition costs have risen dramatically since the 80s(even at public institutions) and it's also a fact that wages have stagnated in this country. the original poster stated his belief that all things considered, if you just add another job, get rid of the car, etal, you can do like he did and not rely on Uncle Sam to help pay for the privilege of higher education, which we all know, is the best way to improve your way of living (and you may learn something too). methinks the original poster is living in a world that is no longer reality. does this poster now understand? me hopes so cause I can't make it any simpler!

[teacher731]

Actually, there is a considerable evidence that too free a hand with both Pell grants and Student Loans have exacerbated the cost spiral especially so in upscale institutions. From the university's point of view this is all free money, why do they care if the former student starts his professional life $100,000 or more in debt, they got theirs, up front.

One symptom is the number of tenured professors who spend little or no actual classroom time, and God forbid they waste any of that on an undergrad. Prime example would be Maya Angelou, of Clinton inauguration fame. Whatever one thinks of her politics or her poetry, she put a first class raping on Wake Forest, barely deigning to even walk through a class in session, but getting six figures to adorn Wake's letterhead.

Actually, going back to "teacher 731", I could still manage to put the kid through our local state school, it never got in the bidding wars for marquee names and its tuition has increased, but not "spiraled". Still good enough to have served quite a few prominent people. Also, when we sold the car we didn't walk, we sold the third car and traded another down to a reliable older model, which incidentally, I still drive.

Call me old fashioned, but I cannot justify to myself asking the gov't to pick my neighbor's pocket so I can do as I like and not have to trade in the new minivan.

then it's your right as an American not to have this help, however, you don't speak for everyone. There are many poor, working class, and middle class families that can use this help. No one should deny them this opportunity. What we should call is for a rollback of the expensive, wealthy class-targeting, deficit busting Ayatollah Shrub tax cuts.

[flydangler]

does this poster now understand?

Actually no, since you never bothered to address my question. Why is tuition rising at a greater pace than wages and the cost of living if it's not gouging by institutes of higher education? Methinks, judging by the moniker you've chosen, that education is your field, that be the reason I asked. Instead of the teacher actually addressing what I asked 'twere a barkeeper, does that make sense? If the barkeeper was correct so be it, that be all I wanted to know.

[barkeeper]

Actually no, since you never bothered to address my question. Why is tuition rising at a greater pace than wages and the cost of living if it's not gouging by institutes of higher education? Methinks, judging by the moniker you've chosen, that education is your field, that be the reason I asked. Instead of the teacher actually addressing what I asked 'twere a barkeeper, does that make sense? If the barkeeper was correct so be it, that be all I wanted to know.

Just to join in the tenor of debate, methinks it possible that barkeepers day by day might deal with a bit more reality than teachers. Happy New Year to all!

[Accountable]

Just to join in the tenor of debate, methinks it possible that barkeepers day by day might deal with a bit more reality than teachers. Happy New Year to all!

Me thinks that barkeepers deal with those attempting to ESCAPE reality. I'm not a teacher, but I still refer to ideas and challenges made by teachers many years ago during my educational years. If more young people have access , and if that access is assisted by Pell Grants, then it should be supported.

[rla]

We need to get rid of the Bush Lite leadership, take back the Democratic
Party, and start making proposals that could make a difference and get students and working people excited about politics:
universal health care
4 years universal public education after high school

[teacher731]

Just to join in the tenor of debate, methinks it possible that barkeepers day by day might deal with a bit more reality than teachers. Happy New Year to all!

while you may deal with a larger percentage of alcoholics than I do, let me tell you something about being a teacher in an urban school, you see the sides of American life that don't get reported, I can't say I've seen it all cause then I will see something completely new. We are seeing the firsthand effects of poverty, budget slashing, the disasterous NCLB, and of course the fact that this country does not care about its children(lip service just doesn't cut it) on a daily basis. Now, that's an education and a reality you can't get serving martinis.

Everytime education is cut, a child suffers. Like the saying goes, "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." Speaking of my kids, govt assistance, such as the Pell grant will make a positive difference in their lives. When that assistance gets slashed so Mr. billionaire can stop paying taxes, another opportunity to advance oneself vanishes. The same peopel calling for these cuts seem to have their priorites out of whack: funding grants and providing aid to education is less expensive than funding a single prisoner, which now amounts to a whopping $40,000 a year; heck for that money, think of all the kids wwe could send to college!!

[teacher731]

Me thinks that barkeepers deal with those attempting to ESCAPE reality. I'm not a teacher, but I still refer to ideas and challenges made by teachers many years ago during my educational years. If more young people have access , and if that access is assisted by Pell Grants, then it should be supported.

Thank you! the mark of a great teacher is not only determined by what you learn during the school year, but it also what you learn about life.

[teacher731]

Actually no, since you never bothered to address my question. Why is tuition rising at a greater pace than wages and the cost of living if it's not gouging by institutes of higher education? Methinks, judging by the moniker you've chosen, that education is your field, that be the reason I asked. Instead of the teacher actually addressing what I asked 'twere a barkeeper, does that make sense? If the barkeeper was correct so be it, that be all I wanted to know.

What you need to do, as I would tell my students who ask questions, is to do your research: you need to answer your own question and claim which is that tuition costs have skyrocketed because of colleges gouging.

[ultraist]

Some students, as many as 85,000 may see grants reduced or cut out, but nearly all are from families in the top 5% of income, $35,000 to $40,000.

Now I get a bit personal. Step-daughter went to college ten years ago when our household income was about $25,000, no grant. We're not talking Harvard, but a good state university here. I would not dream of having the unmitigated gall to ask the gov't to pick my neighbor's pocket for my kid if I'm knocking down 30K+.

Sell the extra car, second mortgage, cut here, some part time there, and it wouldn't kill the kid to work a few hours a week, AFTER you've done all that come tell me your sad story. We just did that and nobody heard our sad story.

When was the top 5%, $35,000-$40,000? In the sixties? That income range is not even the median of MIDDLE CLASS! That range is LOWER MIDDLE CLASS. The top five percent is well over $200,000! FACT CHECK YOUR INACCURATE NUMBERS ON THE US CENSUS BUREAU WEBSITE.

Since you offered your personal numbers, how did you pay your mortgage, health insurance, property taxes, property insurance, food, clothes, utilities, car payment, car insurance, etc. AND pay college tuition for your daughter on $25,000 per year? How much was the tuition, books and fees per year? Or did you take out GOV'T guaranteed loans?

The low end of tuition at public universities today, is around ten grand a year. That would leave a whoping fifteen grand a year for the rest of the family to survive. But, since that is POVERTY level, that family could qualify for food stamps and AFDC. I suppose that could forgo health insurance as well, as 45 million other Americans do.

[ultraist]

Me thinks that barkeepers deal with those attempting to ESCAPE reality. I'm not a teacher, but I still refer to ideas and challenges made by teachers many years ago during my educational years. If more young people have access , and if that access is assisted by Pell Grants, then it should be supported.

Now why should the government open doors to educational opportunity for economically underprivileged students when they can just track them right into the military?

[teacher731]

  When was the top 5%, $35,000-$40,000? In the sixties? That income range is not even the median of MIDDLE CLASS! That range is LOWER MIDDLE CLASS. The top five percent is well over $200,000! FACT CHECK YOUR INACCURATE NUMBERS ON THE US CENSUS BUREAU WEBSITE.

Since you offered your personal numbers, how did you pay your mortgage, health insurance, property taxes, property insurance, food, clothes, utilities, car payment, car insurance, etc. AND pay college tuition for your daughter on $25,000 per year? How much was the tuition, books and fees per year? Or did you take out GOV'T guaranteed loans?

The low end of tuition at public universities today, is around ten grand a year. That would leave a whoping fifteen grand a year for the rest of the family to survive. But, since that is POVERTY level, that family could qualify for food stamps and AFDC. I suppose that could forgo health insurance as well, as 45 million other Americans do.

and without that car, where would they live?!