 WHAT IS A HATE CRIME?, How can we ever tell? |
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| WHAT IS A HATE CRIME?, How can we ever tell? |
 Aug 2 2008, 11:44 AM
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#1
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Advanced Member  Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 49,435 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 219  |
I came out of my home this morning to find that during the night, someone had willfully violated the sanctity of my privacy by coming some 100 feet down my driveway to put a pile of excrement on the hood of my vehicle ....
The stop sign from the end of the road that I live on had been sheared off at its base, and the sign and post had been carried back to my driveway, and placed in such an obvious fashion that it was in the middle of the driveway, in off that road, blocking my egress .... That was 6:30 or so this morning, and it sickens me still ... The sight ... The smell ... The thought of how easy it was for someone to penetrate my privacy right up to outside my house ... The message of the excrement and the stop sign together .... HELPLESSNESS .... STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING! WE CAN HARM YOU AT WILL! WE JUST DID! And so ... |
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Aug 2 2008, 11:55 AM
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#2
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Advanced Member Group: Moderator Posts: 137,620 Joined: 4-November 04 From: Washington D.C. Member No.: 9 |
Some people are just plain whackos Liv. In this example, extremely mean spirited whackos.
Sounds like a teenage prank however. I had a similar experience recently but not quite as awful as yours up in Pawling. Seems that one of the favorite pastimes of local country folk is to see how many mailboxes and mailbox stands can be decimated in drive bys. My mailbox was selected for some reason. But there is a God. While it got decimated, it also did a fair amount of damage to the car that hit it - took out a front light, bumper piece and some other loose ends, all left on the end of my driveway. I'm sorry you were targeted. |
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Aug 2 2008, 12:23 PM
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#3
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 Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 12,864 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 204 |
Some people just act like assh*les, Liv. Over the years, we've had damage done to our property and to neighbors' properties by teenagers...mailboxes destroyed,heavy bottles thrown at our house, holiday decorations stolen....jerks. Infuriating....
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Aug 2 2008, 01:30 PM
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#4
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 22,253 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 238 |
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Aug 2 2008, 12:44 PM)  I came out of my home this morning to find that during the night, someone had willfully violated the sanctity of my privacy by coming some 100 feet down my driveway to put a pile of excrement on the hood of my vehicle .... The stop sign from the end of the road that I live on had been sheared off at its base, and the sign and post had been carried back to my driveway, and placed in such an obvious fashion that it was in the middle of the driveway, in off that road, blocking my egress .... That was 6:30 or so this morning, and it sickens me still ... The sight ... The smell ... The thought of how easy it was for someone to penetrate my privacy right up to outside my house ... The message of the excrement and the stop sign together .... HELPLESSNESS .... STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING! WE CAN HARM YOU AT WILL! WE JUST DID! And so ... Social Justice and Equality of Opportunity reduces the Risk of Sectarian Violence and it reduces the Risk of Gang Violence, Organized Crime, Home-grown Terrioism and the Under-ground economy. De-criminalizing Drugs would also have a positive systemic effect for changing the direction of this Country...Our Goals are Peace, Prosperity and Wellness. We can not achieve these goals unless we harness the Emergent Evolutionary Energy as an Intelligent Guiding Force carrying us forward toward our Potential...and help each other perceive/conceive a Human Identification with each other that brings positive feelings and Positive Intentions toward each other, to the Group as a whole and for the Common Good... We get what we Train... would |
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Aug 2 2008, 02:43 PM
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#5
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 49,435 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 219 |
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 2 2008, 01:30 PM) .. We get what we Train... Up here, rla, IGNORANCE and UGLY are what get trained .... STOMP A LIBERAL is what gets trained .... WE vs. THEM is what gets trained .... MIGHT MAKES RIGHT is what gets trained ... And the training is taking hold .... Has been for a while, actually .... Now a new generation is coming along with it ... Evolution may be going forward where you are, rla .... If so, to balance that, it is going backwards up here ... Maybe it is a kind of osmosis .... And so ... |
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Aug 2 2008, 02:59 PM
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#6
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 49,435 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 219 |
QUOTE(Snuffysmith @ Aug 2 2008, 11:55 AM) Some people are just plain whackos Liv. In this example, extremely mean spirited whackos. Sounds like a teenage prank however. I'm sorry you were targeted. TARGETED is the word, Snuf .... I live on a small road .... It was a dark night last night .... Unless you knew that I was in there, you would drive right on by .... My vehicle is back in off the road, and if you did not know that it was in there, you wouldn't know because you can't see it ... So someone knew it was in there, and in the dark of the night, they made their way to their target and found it .... So too the stop sign .... They had to bring that back about about a quarter mile .... And then they carried it and placed it in my driveway, just so .... It was an intentional "assault", not a prank ... An intentional act of violence ... Somebody sent me a message, because they wanted a message being sent .... And the worst part is not knowing who exactly that was that came and delivered that message .... Along with the knowing that they can come back and strike at will .... Just like they did last night .... And these things do get written off as pranks .... "AH, JUST SOME KIDS OUT HAVING FUN!" So they become emboldened to carry it further .... To escalate .... With impunity ... Which is what happened last night .... That was a WILFUL TRESSPASS to cause harm .... And it succeeded ... Now, the only way to get this sickness that I feel inside of me as a result of this assault back out of me is to work hard to get it out ... And that is why I put these words in this thread .... To get these thoughts out of my head where they will just cause further damage .... The thoughts that at any time, I can have acts of violence perpetrated against me on my own property up here, with no thought of legal recourse .... Like the homeless people who get beat to death as a PRANK ... Or set on fire ... And so ... |
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Aug 2 2008, 03:35 PM
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#7
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 12,864 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 204 |
Livy,
You should report this to the police. |
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Aug 2 2008, 04:02 PM
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#8
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 49,435 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 219 |
QUOTE(amy @ Aug 2 2008, 03:35 PM) Livy, You should report this to the police. I had them out there first thing this morning ... I couldn't get out of my driveway because of the stop sign ... So I just went in and called 911 and sat there and waited .... They took pictures of my truck and the stop sign ... They verified where it had been broken off down the road ... They took a report .... They removed the stop sign from where it had been placed in my driveway ... So that much was done .... The question now becomes one of where that report now goes ... The source of this problem is political ... It relates to a stance that I took against government corruption many years ago up here as a citizen and as an engineer ... In the past, these people perpetrating these hate acts against me have been politically protected at a level higher than the police .... UNTOUCHABLES ... POLITICAL GOONS ... ENFORCERS ... And MALICIOUS PUNKS goaded on by them to do violence against me ... The police can take a report, but they can't prosecute the crimes .... Making a police report and then having no follow-up action taken in many ways is worse that staying silent ... It only serves to visibly amplify and broadcast your state of helplessness ... And hence, this blatant escalation .... Which had someone brazenly penetrating my property to right up outside my house ... And so ... |
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Aug 2 2008, 04:10 PM
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#9
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 22,253 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 238 |
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Aug 2 2008, 03:43 PM) Up here, rla, IGNORANCE and UGLY are what get trained .... STOMP A LIBERAL is what gets trained .... WE vs. THEM is what gets trained .... MIGHT MAKES RIGHT is what gets trained ... And the training is taking hold .... Has been for a while, actually .... Now a new generation is coming along with it ... Evolution may be going forward where you are, rla .... If so, to balance that, it is going backwards up here ... Maybe it is a kind of osmosis .... And so ... We're eat up with Ignorance down here too, Livyjr. |
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Aug 2 2008, 06:03 PM
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#10
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 49,435 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 219 |
My metaphor is the lava lamp, rla ...
In a lava lamp, one thing is always rising .... But at the same time, another is always sinking .... This is also the basis of the I Ching which is ancient, yet still survives as a tool of applied human psychology ... Evolution is not always in a forwards direction ... He or she who would be enlightened must keep this thought in mind, is my thought .... And so ... |
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Aug 2 2008, 07:40 PM
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#11
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 Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 3,255 Joined: 5-November 04 From: Nebraska Member No.: 647 |
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Aug 2 2008, 12:44 PM) I came out of my home this morning to find that during the night, someone had willfully violated the sanctity of my privacy by coming some 100 feet down my driveway to put a pile of excrement on the hood of my vehicle .... The stop sign from the end of the road that I live on had been sheared off at its base, and the sign and post had been carried back to my driveway, and placed in such an obvious fashion that it was in the middle of the driveway, in off that road, blocking my egress .... That was 6:30 or so this morning, and it sickens me still ... The sight ... The smell ... The thought of how easy it was for someone to penetrate my privacy right up to outside my house ... The message of the excrement and the stop sign together .... HELPLESSNESS .... STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING! WE CAN HARM YOU AT WILL! WE JUST DID! And so ... Purpose or reason requires action. If the intent was to harm you, intimidate you or respond to you specifically and you do not know who it was then further action is required. Any act against you based on the rights in the bill of rights is a federal offense. 1st make sure it is reported, next review for other acts in area and contact those who also have been targeted. Protection goes beyond self when the motive of the action is hate. If the act was a random act and you were not the target just an easy location then destruction of city and private property is crimnal and should be acted on. -------------------- “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” Eleanor Roosevelt
“You have to accept whatever comes and the only important thing is that you meet it with courage and with the best that you have to give” Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Aug 2 2008, 08:18 PM
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#12
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 Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 12,074 Joined: 5-November 04 From: Alabama Member No.: 327 |
Livyjr- I'm so sorry that this happened to you. Any suspicions as to the perps? -Peggy -------------------- Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. – C. S. Lewis
There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences. – P.J. O'Rourke (1993) If, after having been exposed to someone's presence, you feel as though you've lost a quart of plasma, avoid that presence. You need it like you need pernicious anemia. - William S. Burroughs A fanatic is someone who cannot change his mind and won't change the subject. - Winston Churchill |
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Aug 3 2008, 05:09 AM
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#13
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 49,435 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 219 |
QUOTE(Pegatha @ Aug 2 2008, 08:18 PM) Livyjr- I'm so sorry that this happened to you. Any suspicions as to the perps? -Peggy Well, there is certainly suspicion .... But unfortunately, suspicion and fifty cents buys coffee .... |
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Aug 3 2008, 05:20 AM
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#14
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 49,435 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 219 |
QUOTE(cutecat @ Aug 2 2008, 07:40 PM) Purpose or reason requires action. If the intent was to harm you, intimidate you or respond to you specifically and you do not know who it was then further action is required. Up here where I am, political intimidation is an "art form" .... In the county where I live, they call politics "blood sport" ... This was an example of it .... And you are right on several counts .... Further action is required .... But where people doing the intimidation have the "protection" of the "system", further action becomes a pipe dream ... There is where the root of the problem lies, in my estimation .... We do not have EQUAL JUSTICE up here where I am ..... Not even the pretence of it .... Not in a corrupt political society .... Not if you don't have the money to buy some for yourself to surpass the "protection" the corrupt are able to purchase ... Corruption protects itself, because it has no qualms about the use of violence to do so ... And when corruption controls the mechanism of justice at the county level, by controlling the office of the district attorney, there is no recourse for people like me who have gone up against this corruption up here as a citizen ... And so ... |
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Aug 3 2008, 05:37 AM
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#15
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 Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 54,953 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 336 |
I would take this higher than your local police
This was political intimidation it appears Maybe the ACLU as your civil rights are being violated (freedom of speech?) This sounds like a coordinated "hit" on you to silence you. NOT teen silly games or something like that. While I don't trust the US Governemnt to do anything to help, maybe the answer is to be MORE vocal...go to the media and tell them a cover-up is being done (not that the media will be anxious to stir the pot), but the alternative media Sounds like you have uncovered so much corruption, it is scaring them and "they"(whoever they is here), are running very scared. -------------------- Bobby dreamed things that never were and say "Why not?" TEDDY made those dreams come alive and be a reality.
RE-ELECT BARACK OBAMA 2012 PRESIDENT MICHELLE OBAMA 2016 "Because Rosa sat,Martin walked.And because Martin walked,Barack ran."-author unknown, posted by jeffmoskin here. "God bless Obama. God bless America. And God bless the others outside our borders." - Kris Kristofferson First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win - Gandhi "News is what somebody somewhere doesn't want you to know. All the rest is advertising."- DAN RATHER [color="#0000FF"]"I'd rather have the right to do something, than the right to stop someone else"-David Souter There is no planning. On the night it is really great, it’s euphoria and if it is not so great there is always tomorrow night.-Honesty is the single most important factor in having a direct bearing on the final success of an individual, corporation, or product. Ed McMahon...Heerrrrrrrrrrre's Eddie"...the angels announcing Ed at the gates of heaven-R.I.P. Ed,God must have needed a second banana |
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Aug 3 2008, 06:26 AM
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#16
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 49,435 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 219 |
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 3 2008, 05:37 AM) While I don't trust the US Governemnt to do anything to help, maybe the answer is to be MORE vocal...go to the media and tell them a cover-up is being done (not that the media will be anxious to stir the pot), but the alternative media ... As far as I am concerned, graham .... THIS in here IS the alternative media .... THIS forum is the only place in America right now that I can see OUR voices going out to the world uncensored and unedited .... And without a fight to get ahold of someone's attention to get a story like this published .... And so far as I know, this forum is respected .... The alternative media might not be ... That is why they are called "alternative" .... And it is a pejorative label, "alternative", as in "not main stream" ..... And I don't even know who they are, actually, these "alternative media" .... You live in NYC, so down there, you are surrounded by many alternatives .... Not so up here in the country where I am ... This **** goes back to a stand that I took against corruption up here where I am .... A stand that included Joe Bruno, who is known as the "IRON DUKE" up here .... Joe Bruno had power up here for all the years that he did because Joe could unleash violence against someone he considered as his enemy at the snap of his finger, and more importantly, he controlled the "mechanisms" of justice in this area, so his "engines of violence" were in turn protected from the law .... It was his son who was district attorney when some of this retaliatory **** was happening .... Joe was involved in the promotion of the false appraisals and certifications of land that underlie this present housing market melt-down ... THE SCAM .... I blew the whistle on Joe and some other powerful political people up here .... And Joe ordered a massive retaliation .... And then I made the serious and fatal mistake of trusting the FBI to be non-political, by giving evidence to them ... That was a very serious error in judgment on my part .... Joe had them run out of town like a whipped dog with their tail between their legs, and very publicly so .... When the FBI is in town out in the countryside, they don't blend, and everybody and his brother knows they are around and WHY ... So when they get run out of town and are gone, everybody knows that too, and WHY ..... And they know who it was that got them there in the first place, which was me .... And when they know the FBI aren't coming back, the LONG HARD RIDE begins ... I actually had an FBI agent tell me to get out of town ... To run ... To go hide .... I told him to go **** himself in return ... So an engine of intimidation and retaliation was set in motion with me as its target, and it was never turned back off again .... It has caused me to have to live like a fugitive up here, not trusting anyone ... Never knowing when the next attack might come ... Or from whom, exactly, since it is the NIGHT RIDERS who generally have been doing this damage ... But this is the first time I am aware of where someone has penetrated my property to right outside my home like this to do such a blatant act .... So there has now been an escalation which I am powerless right now to do a thing about .... And to be truthful graham, I would be better off relying on the man in the moon than the ACLU .... Bringing them to town would be worse than relying on the FBI in my estimation .... The ACLU isn't going to do ****-all to stop this **** ... And I am not going to kid myself that they can or would ... And so ... |
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Aug 3 2008, 06:41 AM
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#17
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 49,435 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 219 |
Maybe I should have titled this "WHEN IS A HATE CRIME NOT A HATE CRIME" ....
And that answer would be when it is political retaliation and intimidation ..... Since that is considered a part of "politics", or the "holding of political power", up here, those activities are exempt from the law by agreement of the two parties who do hold power and vie between themselves for exclusive control of it .... And since the parties essentially "own" ALL of the government, including district attorneys and judges, they can enforce that "agreement" not to protect "dissidents" ... From the bottom all the way up to the top .... And so they do .... And so they have ... And I am sick of it .... And I am not getting run off the land where I have lived all my life .... How exactly I am going to keep that from happening, I am not sure in the face of this latest escalation ... But I will be damned if I am just going to sit there and be silent about it .... So let the NIGHT RIDERS come ... And the story will then continue in here until I can't type anymore ... And so it all will go .... And so ... |
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Aug 3 2008, 07:07 AM
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#18
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 Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 3,920 Joined: 7-November 04 From: Eastern Iowa Member No.: 1,402 |
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Aug 3 2008, 07:26 AM) This **** goes back to a stand that I took against corruption up here where I am .... A stand that included Joe Bruno, who is known as the "IRON DUKE" up here .... Joe Bruno had power up here for all the years that he did because Joe could unleash violence against someone he considered as his enemy at the snap of his finger, and more importantly, he controlled the "mechanisms" of justice in this area, so his "engines of violence" were in turn protected from the law .... It was his son who was district attorney when some of this retaliatory **** was happening .... Joe was involved in the promotion of the false appraisals and certifications of land that underlie this present housing market melt-down ... THE SCAM .... I blew the whistle on Joe and some other powerful political people up here .... And Joe ordered a massive retaliation .... And then I made the serious and fatal mistake of trusting the FBI to be non-political, by giving evidence to them ... That was a very serious error in judgment on my part .... Joe had them run out of town like a whipped dog with their tail between their legs, and very publicly so .... When the FBI is in town out in the countryside, they don't blend, and everybody and his brother knows they are around and WHY ... So when they get run out of town and are gone, everybody knows that too, and WHY ..... And they know who it was that got them there in the first place, which was me .... And when they know the FBI aren't coming back, the LONG HARD RIDE begins ... I actually had an FBI agent tell me to get out of town ... To run ... To go hide .... I told him to go **** himself in return ... In earlier post you said that this episode with the "Iron Duke" started many years ago. Has there been any recent developments that might have prompted this vandalism? -------------------- TroU asks what I expect (or recommend) people “to do about it”.
Among the smorgasbord of options: Give up entirely trying to cooperate in any way with whatever they are doing, planning, requiring, legislating, or otherwise bringing to your doorstep and see if you can coalesce a few friends and neighbors into a viable conversation about sustainability, life after the collapse, local-ness, how to grow food, and who on earth should moderate that discussion. - Magmak1 |
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Aug 3 2008, 07:22 AM
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#19
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 22,253 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 238 |
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Aug 3 2008, 07:26 AM) As far as I am concerned, graham .... THIS in here IS the alternative media .... THIS forum is the only place in America right now that I can see OUR voices going out to the world uncensored and unedited .... And without a fight to get ahold of someone's attention to get a story like this published .... And so far as I know, this forum is respected .... The alternative media might not be ... That is why they are called "alternative" .... And it is a pejorative label, "alternative", as in "not main stream" ..... And I don't even know who they are, actually, these "alternative media" .... You live in NYC, so down there, you are surrounded by many alternatives .... Not so up here in the country where I am ... This **** goes back to a stand that I took against corruption up here where I am .... A stand that included Joe Bruno, who is known as the "IRON DUKE" up here .... Joe Bruno had power up here for all the years that he did because Joe could unleash violence against someone he considered as his enemy at the snap of his finger, and more importantly, he controlled the "mechanisms" of justice in this area, so his "engines of violence" were in turn protected from the law .... It was his son who was district attorney when some of this retaliatory **** was happening .... Joe was involved in the promotion of the false appraisals and certifications of land that underlie this present housing market melt-down ... THE SCAM .... I blew the whistle on Joe and some other powerful political people up here .... And Joe ordered a massive retaliation .... And then I made the serious and fatal mistake of trusting the FBI to be non-political, by giving evidence to them ... That was a very serious error in judgment on my part .... Joe had them run out of town like a whipped dog with their tail between their legs, and very publicly so .... When the FBI is in town out in the countryside, they don't blend, and everybody and his brother knows they are around and WHY ... So when they get run out of town and are gone, everybody knows that too, and WHY ..... And they know who it was that got them there in the first place, which was me .... And when they know the FBI aren't coming back, the LONG HARD RIDE begins ... I actually had an FBI agent tell me to get out of town ... To run ... To go hide .... I told him to go **** himself in return ... So an engine of intimidation and retaliation was set in motion with me as its target, and it was never turned back off again .... It has caused me to have to live like a fugitive up here, not trusting anyone ... Never knowing when the next attack might come ... Or from whom, exactly, since it is the NIGHT RIDERS who generally have been doing this damage ... But this is the first time I am aware of where someone has penetrated my property to right outside my home like this to do such a blatant act .... So there has now been an escalation which I am powerless right now to do a thing about .... And to be truthful graham, I would be better off relying on the man in the moon than the ACLU .... Bringing them to town would be worse than relying on the FBI in my estimation .... The ACLU isn't going to do ****-all to stop this **** ... And I am not going to kid myself that they can or would ... And so ... The opposite of what Hate crimes represent in our Social System is the Democratic Party Mantra: that FDR constructed from His Supra and Super Community at Warm Springs, Georgia where he demonstrated that the best Rehabilitation is the same as the Best Habilitation provided by the most effective and efficient families in the most efficient and effective Communities...the Mantra is"Social Justice and Equality of Opportunity Reduces the Risk of Hate Crimes...also reduces the Risk of Home Grown Terriorist Acts. |
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Aug 3 2008, 07:23 AM
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#20
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Advanced Member Group: Subscribing Member Posts: 22,253 Joined: 5-November 04 Member No.: 238 |
Much of CGCS Dialogue is carried live on Goggle...
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