Originally posted by "Krackels" from my XD Talk.Com gun forum...
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/political-vie...ack-school.html
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Anti gun - anti gun bigot
That ought to win over a lot of people who are on the fence about gun control issues.....

concealed carry - carry or right to carry

A bit disingenuous considering that "carrying" is different than "concealed carrying"....how can the two be honestly equated?

But, like all political movements, it's an attempt to develop language that is less "threatening", language that tries to present issues in
a way that will be more acceptable to people. I don't have a problem with that as long as the "language" is honest.

An anti-gun bigot is one who will not look at both sides of the issue objectively. An ideologue, if you will.

I think "bigot" is reallly "hot" .....loaded with emotion and divisive (notice my reaction ). 'Idealogue" describes better but too many people will need to consult a dictionary and won't bother to do so. If I were choosing better terminology, I would try to appeal to people like me...open minded but with real concerns...not an "ideologue" by any stretch of the imagination......I certainly am put off by words like "bigot" and any language that mischaracterizes what something is....(concealed weapon - right to carry). Of course, I imagine that many of those who are actively involved in 2nd amendment rights issues are "ideologues" unwilling to open their minds to the very real concerns of people like me. They too use the "fear" tactic....we have to be able to"defend" ourselves against criminals....in our home, in our schools, on the streets, etc. I don't disagree with that....in fact I agree. But people like me consider all sides of the issue.....what's best in the short term, in the long term, will some "rights"produce more negative than positive results. etc.
So, open minds are needed all around if gun issues are to be discussed and debated intelligently so that some "middle ground" can be achieved.
Btw, I've stooped off at your gun forum to take a look. I've mostly read within the political area. Sounds a lot like this place!

It can really nasty over there, to say the least. They argue with me there, as much as here.

You must be viewed as a "flaming liberal" by many over there...They'd eat me alive if I ever posted, which I would never do.
But, it's interesting....some reasonable posters.....

We actually have a better cross-section of ideologies there than here, IMO. Yes...I've been called a Pinko, Commie, etc.
I'm also number two on that forum, and have sent a few of them packing!

That site has many more members than here, so yes, you would find more variety of political views. Goes to show, that conservatives are not the only ones who own guns and care about 2nd amendment issues.

If you wish to see the table(s) mentioned in the text, then use the link.

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORI...NS/GUNSTAT.html

Statistics, Gun Control Issues, and Safety
Gunshot wounds inpact severely on the criminal justice as well as health care systems. Some basic statistics are important in understanding the magnitude and severity of the social and economic burden to the U.S.

In the U.S. for 2001, there were 29,573 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,869; Homicide 11,348; Accident 802; Legal Intervention 323; Undetermined 231.(CDC, 2004) This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, but has since declined steadily.(CDC, 2001) However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2004).

The number of non-fatal injuries is considerable--over 200,000 per year in the U.S. Many of these injuries require hospitalization and trauma care. A 1994 study revealed the cost per injury requiring admission to a trauma center was over $14,000. The cumulative lifetime cost in 1985 for gunshot wounds was estimated to be $911 million, with $13.4 billion in lost productivity. (Mock et al, 1994) The cost of the improper use of firearms in Canada was estimated at $6.6 billion per year. (Chapdelaine and Maurice, 1996)

The rates of firearms deaths in the U.S. vary significantly by race and sex. The U.S. national average was 10.3 deaths per 100,000 population in 2001. The highest rate was 34.5/100,000 for African-American males, more than double the rate of 16.3/100,000 for white males and well above the rate of 2.7/100,000 for white females. (CDC, 2004)

Firearms Death Rate (per 100,000, age adjusted) for Selected Countries in one year between 1990 and 1995 (Krug, Powell and Dahlberg, 1998)

Gun Control Issues, Public Health, and Safety
The number of firearms injuries remains high in the United States, compared with most of the rest of the world. Firearm suicide rates are strongly impacted by the rate of gun ownership. (Kaplan and Geling, 1998) There is a positive correlation between homicide rates and availability of guns in developed nations. (Hemenway and Miller, 2000) The number of firearms in the hands of private citizens continues to grow each year at a rate far exceeding that of the population as a whole. It might even be said that Americans live in a "gun culture" based upon traditions and behaviors well-entrenched in our society. This is reflected in our constitution, whose second amendment guarantees that "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Though the application of this amendment applied to maintenance of a militia, and not private gun ownership, the second amendment has been consistently interpreted to protect private ownership of many types of guns.

Thus, the laws of our Federal government as well as the states do not as yet severely restrict the manufacture, sale, and use of firearms by ordinary citizens. "Gun control" is a sensitive issue that evokes strong emotions in persons both for and against control. Politicians find it difficult to deal with this issue. There is disagreement as to whether a reduction in access to or numbers of firearms will have a measurable effect upon crime. The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act passed in 1994 in the U.S. established a nationwide requirement that licensed firearms dealers observe a waiting period and initiate a background check for handgun sales (but the law does not apply to secondary markets). So far, this law has not been associated with overall reductions in homicide rate or suicide rate.(Ludwig and Cook, 2000) Perhaps our attitudes--and our tolerances--are reflected in the high visibility of firearms and firearms-inflicted injuries that are portrayed in the media: newspapers, magazines, books, films, and television. (Price et al, 1992) One thing remains certain, despite laws for or against gun control, a lack of love toward one's fellow human beings, whether in war or through domestic violence, will continue to promote firearms injuries.

Child safety is an important issue. Firearms injury is the second leading cause of non-natural death in childhood and adolescence. (CDC, 2004) Accidental shooting deaths are most commonly associated with one or more children playing with a gun they found in the home. (Choi, et al, 1994) The person pulling the trigger is a friend, family member, or the victim. (Harruff, 1992) In the period from 1979 to 2000, accidental firearms deaths involving children declined in the U.S., aided by child access prevention laws and felony prosecution of offenders. (Hepburn et al, 2006)

The table below indicates mode of death for firearms injuries in the ten countries with the most reported deaths from firearms for children less than 15 years of age. (CDC, 1997)

Firearms Deaths by Mode of Death for Children <15 Years of Age
Top 10 Countries - Rate per 100,000

In one survey, 10% of families admitted to having unlocked and loaded firearms within easy reach of children (Patterson and Smith, 1987). Another study showed that two-thirds of accidental firearms injuries occured in the home, and one-third involved children under 15. 45% were self-inflicted, and 16% occurred when children were playing with guns. (Morrow and Hudson, 1986) A study from 1991-2000 showed that twice as many people died from unintentional firearm injuries in states in the U.S. where firearm owners were more likely to store their firearms loaded. (Miller, et al, 2005)

The issue of "home defense" or protection against intruders may well be misrepresented. Of 626 shootings in or around a residence in three U.S. cities revealed that, for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides (Kellermann et al, 1998). Over 50% of all households in the U.S. admit to having firearms (Nelson et al, 1987). In another study, regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and suicide in the home (Dahlberg, Ikeda and Kresnow, 2004). Persons who own a gun and who engage in abuse of intimate partners such as a spouse are more likely to use a gun to threaten their intimate partner. (Rothman, et al) It would appear that, rather than beign used for defense, most of these weapons inflict injuries on the owners and their families.

Hunting accidents with firearms, despite the large gun ownership in this country and numerous game seasons in most states, remain relatively rare and do not appear to be increasing. (Huiras, et al, 1990) A study in Sweden indicated a rate of 0.074/100,000 and that, when hunting big game, most accidents resulted from a mistaken target. When hunting small game, accidents occurred most frequently as a result of mishandling the gun. Hunting accidents did not increase with increasing gun ownership or numbers of hunters. (Ornehult and Eriksson, 1987)




It seems smarter control needs to be developed.


lenal

Thank you for your post lenal...I'm familiar with it. How do you feel these statistics would be impacted by improvement in the social and economical landscape in this country? How about reevaluating our drug culture and laws, for instance? What about the degridation of the family unit in some quarters?

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1464...icide-risk.html

Frenchy there is nothing in my previous post implying that there are not other multiple conditions in our social system that contribute to suicide but this topic as I understand it is about guns. Even though the existing improvement in gun control especially aimed at certain individuals such as those with a history of mental instability, we still have horrendous events like Columbine and the university killings elsewhere. Minors are also arming themselves in the secondary markets uncontolled and the underground trade and quite young students have shown up bringing guns into schools. Enforcement seems to suffer because of the resentment against any control of any type of guns, that exists among certain groups in society also.

My comment wasn't a criticism lenal, rather a statement on the dynamics in this country that sets it apart from other nations. Laws should be designed to solve real problems, and law enforcement is designed to enforce the law. We fall down on both these counts. With better than 20,000 laws on the books that effect guns, we still have this problem.

>>>>nor did I take it as criticism, my succeeding post is to show that this can't be a separate issue - the social system is in interwoven complex of many issues and difficult to address by legal means only, which usually are unable to address complexity.....hence the bind we have in many areas of national life.


lenal

I would agree with this.