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Livyjr
"Oh, dear, what can I do?"

"Baby's in black, and I'm feeling blue ..."

"Tell me, oh, what can I do ..."

That's the Beatles, isn't it, graham?
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 13 2009, 06:42 AM) *
"Oh, dear, what can I do?"

"Baby's in black, and I'm feeling blue ..."

"Tell me, oh, what can I do ..."

That's the Beatles, isn't it, graham?



yup
Livyjr
It's something how these things kind of rattle around in our heads all this time, graham, and then come out when you hear a word like BLUE ....

And so ...
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 13 2009, 07:08 AM) *
It's something how these things kind of rattle around in our heads all this time, graham, and then come out when you hear a word like BLUE ....

And so ...



maybe instead of torturing prisoners, they can use key words and play songs and get the answers they want through song/word associations

might be onto something here
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 13 2009, 05:18 AM) *
maybe instead of torturing prisoners, they can use key words and play songs and get the answers they want through song/word associations

might be onto something here

Remember Clockwork Orange, graham, and "my dear old Ludwig van Beethoven" .....

graham4anything
it can be diabolical

like manchurians and candidates

btw Angela Lansbury was not much older than her son in that film
and Frank Sinatra was a big social liberal, though most people don't know that either
(both in Manchurian Candidate)

and I always liked Sinatra's mid 60s songs
That's life
Strangers in the Night
and Something Stupid, a duet with his daughter Nancy

and appropos of these times, they made him work til the end
His family wanted the big money his concerts brought in and he kept doing them til it got out he couldn't remember the words any longer
and couldn't read them off the prompter either.

To think how cool the whole rat pack was, and how dated the whole concept is today in every way
booze, cigarettes, women... all politically incorrect now
just a relic in time (if it ever existed atall)

that's life
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 13 2009, 01:50 PM) *
and Something Stupid, a duet with his daughter Nancy

These boots are made for walking ....

And that's just what they'll do, sang daughter Nancy ....

One of these days, these boots are going to walk all over you ....

OH!

No, not you, graham ....

That's what Nancy said in the song ....

And so ...
Livyjr
A La Mu Han

Composer: Wang Ludbin

Track Label: EMI

Release Year: 2008

Catalog Number: 6322

graham4anything
Nancy Sinatra
su su su su su su sugar town

always liked that one

They say Martin Scorcese is making a new movie next year on Sinatra's early days
May they NOT pick Leonardo Dicaprio to star, he of no charisma
Livyjr
I never got into Frank Sinatra all that much, graham ...

And what was all that RAT PACK stuff with him and Sammy Davis, Jr. and who was it, Peter Lawton or something like that?

Were they supposed to be some kind of mobsters or something?

And so ...
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 14 2009, 05:23 PM) *
I never got into Frank Sinatra all that much, graham ...

And what was all that RAT PACK stuff with him and Sammy Davis, Jr. and who was it, Peter Lawton or something like that?

Were they supposed to be some kind of mobsters or something?

And so ...


Peter Lawford

Sammy Davis Jr
Joey Bishop
Dean Martin

just a bunch of guys shooting the breeze
a victim of the times, all politically incorrect today

one can imagine all of them in another time on this very board

all talented though big mouthed some would say
Livyjr
Peter Lawford was a brother-in-law of somebody, wasn't he?

And Joey Bishop was a comedian with a really large mouth, if I recall correctly ....

Of course, Dean Martin doesn't need any introduction ....

Everybody likely knows who he was ...

And so ...
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 14 2009, 03:35 PM) *
just a bunch of guys shooting the breeze

So ....

In a sense, graham ....

They were like us ....

Just some dudes sitting out on the stoop having a confabulation ....

And so ...
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 15 2009, 02:33 PM) *
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 14 2009, 03:35 PM) *
just a bunch of guys shooting the breeze

So ....

In a sense, graham ....

They were like us ....

Just some dudes sitting out on the stoop having a confabulation ....

And so ...



except they had everything they wanted for a while

of course Sinatra was as the song said...

a puppet, a pauper, a pirate,
A poet, a pawn and a king.
I've been up and down and over and out
And I know one thing:
Each time I find myself, flat on my face,
I pick myself up and get back in the race.


but one can picture all of them sitting on a stoop (smoking of course with a glass of booze in their hands) shootin the breeze
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 15 2009, 12:41 PM) *
but one can picture all of them sitting on a stoop (smoking of course with a glass of booze in their hands) shootin the breeze

Do you think that they would be fist fighting and eye-gouging and ear-biting as sometimes happens in other threads in here, where people apparenly have not been aculturated to sitting peaceful-like out on the stoop, shooting the breeze, as you say?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 15 2009, 12:05 PM) *
A peregrination is a peregrination ...

Touring your realm so to speak ....

A liesurely stroll through time and space ....

You know - travel without a real destination .....

To journey for the sake of the journey ...

And so ...

Peregrinations, graham ....

But that was then ...

Now, people have destinations ...

Like Disneyland or Wildwood or Atlantic city ....

I was down in Cape May, N.J. some years ago, and I heard one person telling another that they were pulling out of Cape May that day and they were going up to Wildwood, because their kids found Cape May to be "BORING"!

Destinations .....

Don't have time to see what is along the way ......

And so ...

Livyjr
People from NYC used to come on peregrinations up this way, and even further north back when ....

They would come up and stay some place with the family for the whole summer ....

Get out of NYC ....

When I was young, I used to work at a golf course that was associated with one of these summer colonies up here called Totem Lodge ....

What a fascinating place that was for me, a country kid, to look around in ....

The main community was closed by then, a victim to easy travel in the USA after WWII, but a lot of the buildings were still standing, like the main club house ....

Gradually, vandals came in and burned it all to the ground ....

Big name entertainment used to come there in the summer ....

But eras always end, don't they ....

And so ...
Livyjr
24@6:59 AM EST ....

And graham, too ....

And so ...
Livyjr
Speaking of peregrinations, graham ....

Back in the 1960's, we would peregrinate from up here on a Friday night down to NYC, and have a Nathan's hot dog, and then peregrinate back up to here that same night ....

And so ....
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 06:27 AM) *
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 15 2009, 12:05 PM) *
A peregrination is a peregrination ...

Touring your realm so to speak ....

A liesurely stroll through time and space ....

You know - travel without a real destination .....

To journey for the sake of the journey ...

And so ...

Peregrinations, graham ....

But that was then ...

Now, people have destinations ...

Like Disneyland or Wildwood or Atlantic city ....

I was down in Cape May, N.J. some years ago, and I heard one person telling another that they were pulling out of Cape May that day and they were going up to Wildwood, because their kids found Cape May to be "BORING"!

Destinations .....

Don't have time to see what is along the way ......

And so ...



growing up, my grandmother & grandfather on mother's side used to go in the spring/summer on a drive 3 weekends a month
and most times ended up doing something other than they set out to do, we stopped somewhere along the way

now, of course, if one fly's overseas, you can't very well stop somewhere else

I myself like, even when flying to NOT do one of the tours
the Mrs. likes tours
I like to mossy on just look at the scenery and not worry about museums and insides (figure we got the best ones right in NYC anyhow)

In '04, when the family took a trip to France, I spent 3 days by myself in London, and just walked and walked...no map whatsoever
just kept walking an entire day and only stayed outside not once venturing inside (though had seen the great insides of buildings in London
on prior trips.
It was the most fun I had...
sure enough, meeting back up with family 3 days later, the do this do that ends up spoiling my fun somewhat (though not much)

Rick Nelson sang
you can't please everyone, so you gotta please yourself
Livyjr
Some dude is on the Bluegrass Show on the radio right now up here playing "You Are My Sunshine" on the five-string banjo ...
graham4anything
also

when I am some place in US

I like to go in a regular supermarket in some town, any town

where you see real people in THEIR own supermarket
not tourist traps

graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 07:05 AM) *
Some dude is on the Bluegrass Show on the radio right now up here playing "You Are My Sunshine" on the five-string banjo ...


you know, it don't get much better than that really

Gov. Jimmie Davis wrote and sung the original
he lived until his upper 90s I think

Livyjr
I'm kind of the same way, graham ....

I've never been on a tour, and I don't fancy seeing myself on one at this stage of my life ....

I spent four months in Ireland working over there and each week-end, I would set off in the car for God alone knew where ....

And it didn't make a difference, so long as I was back by Monday morning ....

Every time the road would fork or branch, I would take the smaller road ....

And so ...
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:07 AM) *
also

when I am some place in US

I like to go in a regular supermarket in some town, any town

where you see real people in THEIR own supermarket

not tourist traps

I lived in SF for a year or so, in the Marina district ....

There was a supermarket there that essentially served that neighborhood, which had some upscale people living in it ....

You would see people in that supermarket dressed to the nines, graham ....

But they were the regular people for that neighborhood ....

So it was quite a show for me when I would go there ...

Lifestyles of the rich and famous on display in the local supermarket ...

And so ....
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:08 AM) *
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 07:05 AM) *

Some dude is on the Bluegrass Show on the radio right now up here playing "You Are My Sunshine" on the five-string banjo ...

you know, it don't get much better than that really

Gov. Jimmie Davis wrote and sung the original

he lived until his upper 90s I think



I didn't ever know who wrote that song, graham ....

It just seemed like it was around forever ....

Was he a real governor?
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 07:09 AM) *
I'm kind of the same way, graham ....

I've never been on a tour, and I don't fancy seeing myself on one at this stage of my life ....

I spent four months in Ireland working over there and each week-end, I would set off in the car for God alone knew where ....

And it didn't make a difference, so long as I was back by Monday morning ....

Every time the road would fork or branch, I would take the smaller road ....

And so ...



yeah

even when we went to disney world and we did a lot of times, if I drove I always kept a few days extra both ways
(and the most fun is when we took the autotrain...real people ride trains) (I really hate to fly since 1995 I think, used to love it before that).

and I loved to talk to the people as real people
made a few lifetime friends down there of employees

one political (if his bosses had heard the conversations we had, ) totally out of character for what someone just viewing him in the job
he had

what a life that older than me person has had

but along with that I find people are people when you can talk to them as a person
when you can stop and watch the tourists/families rush on by to their next th8ing they will rush from
and talk to a person one on one, (sitting on a stoop wherever on is)

people watch, but if you got someone to talk to it is that much better to have 2 observers observing others
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 07:17 AM) *
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:08 AM) *
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 07:05 AM) *

Some dude is on the Bluegrass Show on the radio right now up here playing "You Are My Sunshine" on the five-string banjo ...

you know, it don't get much better than that really

Gov. Jimmie Davis wrote and sung the original

he lived until his upper 90s I think



I didn't ever know who wrote that song, graham ....

It just seemed like it was around forever ....

Was he a real governor?


Yes he was. though it appears looking at wiki that he gets credit, but a version of it was around before so he adapted/changed it a bit
to its current form I guess

from wiki-
"You Are My Sunshine" is a popular song first recorded in 1939. It has been declared one of the state songs of Louisiana as a result of its association with former state governor and country music star Jimmie Davis. The song is copyright 1940 Peer International Corporation, words and music by Jimmie Davis and Charles Mitchell.[1] According to researchers, the original song was written by Oliver Hood.[2]


[edit] History
Two versions of "You Are My Sunshine" were recorded and released prior to Jimmie Davis's. The first was recorded for Bluebird Records (RCA-Victor's budget label) on August 22, 1939 by The Pine Ridge Boys (Marvin Taylor and Doug Spivey), who hailed from Atlanta.[3] The second was recorded for Decca Records on September 13, 1939 by The Rice Brothers Gang.[4] This group was originally from north Georgia, but had relocated to Shreveport, Louisiana, where they were performing on the city's KWKH radio station. The version by Jimmie Davis was recorded for Decca Records on February 5, 1940.[5]

Davis and Charles Mitchell are the credited songwriters of "You Are My Sunshine". Davis bought the song and rights from Paul Rice and put his own name on it, a practice not uncommon in the pre-World War II music business.[2] Some early versions of the song, however, do credit the Rice Brothers. According to some accounts, clarinetist Pud Brown also had a hand with the Rice Brothers in the song's origin or first arrangement.

Davis said that for some time he had been enthusiastic about the song and had unsuccessfully tried to convince record companies to record it before finally making his own 1940 record of the song. Davis's version was popular and was followed by numerous other covers, including those of Bing Crosby and Gene Autry, whose versions made the number a big hit.

Davis played up his association with the song when running for governor, singing it at all his campaign rallies, while riding on a horse named "Sunshine". His authorized biography, You Are My Sunshine: The Jimmie Davis Story, was published in 1987.

Truman Capote stated in a 1974 interview that it was his "favourite country song".[citation needed]

In 2003, the song ranked #73 in CMT's 100 Greatest Songs in Country Music.[citation needed]

The Pine Ridge Boys
Rice Brothers Gang
Jimmie Davis with Charles Mitchell's Orchestra



[edit] Recordings
"You Are My Sunshine" has been recorded hundreds of times. It is today a widely recognized song and a standard for traditional country music and traditional jazz performers. Early chart versions include Bob Atcher and Bonnie Blue Eyes, Gene Autry, and the Airport Boys.

In one or more of these versions, the song was in Billboard's country (hillbilly) charts for over one year. Rock and roll performances by the likes of Tony Sheridan and Bill Haley & His Comets also exist. The Haley performance was recorded in 1969 and was sung by the band's bass player, Ray Cawley; it was not released until the early 1990s. Jump, Little Children used to play a song called "Pink Lemonade" which borrowed the chorus and was a big hit with fans.

The song has also been recorded by the likes of Johnny Cash, Bob Dylan, Brian Wilson, Trini Lopez, Screeching Weasel, Ray Charles and Aretha Franklin, among others. A rap remix has been recorded by Papa Winnie. Charles' version was the most popular, commercially, reaching #7 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, using a modified melody that little resembled the original. A portion of Gary Cao's song Super Sunshine is based on the tune and lyrics of this song. A soul version was recorded by Dyke & the Blazers during the late Sixties.

An example of a modern incarnation of the song is soul singer Steph Jones' version. It fuses the classic melody with current production trends in pop and R&B music. In 2006 Frank Turner recorded a version of the song for his split EP with Jonah Matranga. And in 2008, at the end of the song 'Flowers And Football Tops' on their debut album Glasvegas (album), Glasvegas incorporated a slightly altered version into the song.


[edit] Film and television features
It has been featured in numerous films, television shows, television commercials, and radio commercials (most notably in a series of Rinso advertisements in the 1960s). The song was featured in the movie Primary Colors (1996) and the Coen Brothers movie O Brother, Where Art Thou (2000). It was also used in the television show Star Trek: Voyager in the episode Someone to Watch Over Me, in which the character The Doctor used the song to teach Seven of Nine about music. It was sung in an episode of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. It is frequentely sung in the 80s tv show, The A-Team when a distraction is needed to drug BA or stall time. It was also featured in one of the final episodes of the series, "Queer as Folk." That same version from Stine J. was also included on the "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" soundtrack starring Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. The artist Brother Love has covered the song for a Saturn commercial. The chorus was also sung by Marge Simpson in the The Simpson's episode The Secret War of Lisa Simpson. Lisa Simpson was feeling homesick from military school and played a tape where Marge (her mother) sang "You Are My Sunshine" to her. In "Alien", Ripley sings it in the final of the movie.

Garrison Keillor regularly sings the song on his radio program A Prairie Home Companion.
Livyjr
"Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die!"

That's the words in a Bluegrass song that is playing right now ...
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:18 AM) *
(and the most fun is when we took the autotrain...real people ride trains)

I was lucky to have gotten an opportunity back in the 80's to ride all around the country on a train ....

I went from up here down to NO, in La., and then across to LA in Ca. and up to Seattle, Washington, and back to here ...

I also went across the country a couple of times on the train ....

On the train, as you say, you meet some real interesting people, and since you aren't going anywhere, you have some time to chat and mostly listen to what they are saying ....

And so ...
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:21 AM) *
The song has also been recorded by the likes of Johnny Cash, Bob Dylan, Brian Wilson, Trini Lopez, Screeching Weasel, Ray Charles and Aretha Franklin, among others.

A rap remix has been recorded by Papa Winnie.

Charles' version was the most popular, commercially, reaching #7 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, using a modified melody that little resembled the original.

A portion of Gary Cao's song Super Sunshine is based on the tune and lyrics of this song.

A soul version was recorded by Dyke & the Blazers during the late Sixties.

WOW!

How about that ...

Bob Dylan sang "You Are My Sunshine" ....

I'm learning more in here, graham, than I did in collitch ....

Go figure ...

The graham School of Culture is now in session ....

And so ...
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 07:26 AM) *
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:18 AM) *
(and the most fun is when we took the autotrain...real people ride trains)

I was lucky to have gotten an opportunity back in the 80's to ride all around the country on a train ....

I went from up here down to NO, in La., and then across to LA in Ca. and up to Seattle, Washington, and back to here ...

I also went across the country a couple of times on the train ....

On the train, as you say, you meet some real interesting people, and since you aren't going anywhere, you have some time to chat and mostly listen to what they are saying ....

And so ...


if they really fix the nationwide train system, I would use it

there is NO train to Nashville Tn at all...you can go NY to Memphis but then you gotta rent a car or a bus to get the 4 hours to Nashville
I don't like buses though, too claustrophobic whereas trains are airy

If they had a direct train to Nashville that was one of the new higher speed ones,and kept the prices low, I would probably go to the Grand Ole Opry once a month
but as of now, no trains stop in Nashville at all

trains are great too because you can sleep on them so you don't waste time finding a hotel and stopping for the night.
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:05 AM) *
In '04, when the family took a trip to France, I spent 3 days by myself in London, and just walked and walked...no map whatsoever

Now, that is what a true peregrination actually is, graham ...

Seeing the world from down on foot at the speed of a walk ....

The British also call it perambulating ....

When I was in SF, I didn't own a vehicle, and I would walk all over that city ....

I never got tired of walking around out there ....

Little pocket gardens and very interesting use of colors and architecture ....

Maybe that is why I am tuned into peregrinating and perambulating, as opposed to "travel", which is something that you do in a car or on a plane ...

And so ...
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:36 AM) *
trains are great too because you can sleep on them so you don't waste time finding a hotel and stopping for the night.

I'm in agreement about the trains, graham ....

Sadly, they keep cutting out stops and making the cost of riding ridiculous, so nobody rides and they lose more money, which has them cutting out more service ....

I used to love getting on a train up here in the moning on a weekend to go down to NYC, where I would just perambulate around and gawk at tall buildings, and get a bagel, and then, at the end of the day, I would get on the train and come back up to here ....

It was pretty reasonable ....

Now they have jacked it up to something like $90 round trip, which is ridiculous ....

I think you can fly down for that money or less ...

One time I went across the country, I was lucky enough to have gotten one of those rooms on the train that you can stay in, if you are in time to reserve one ...

I think that they have cut back on those sleeper cars, as well, because they jacked the cost of those rooms up into the stratospheric ridiculous, as if everyone riding the train were a millionaire instead of a common person ....

And so ...
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:36 AM) *
there is NO train to Nashville Tn at all...you can go NY to Memphis but then you gotta rent a car or a bus to get the 4 hours to Nashville

Maybe they haven't heard of Nashville, or don't know it exists ...
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 07:42 AM) *
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:05 AM) *
In '04, when the family took a trip to France, I spent 3 days by myself in London, and just walked and walked...no map whatsoever

Now, that is what a true peregrination actually is, graham ...

Seeing the world from down on foot at the speed of a walk ....

The British also call it perambulating ....

When I was in SF, I didn't own a vehicle, and I would walk all over that city ....

I never got tired of walking around out there ....

Little pocket gardens and very interesting use of colors and architecture ....

Maybe that is why I am tuned into peregrinating and perambulating, as opposed to "travel", which is something that you do in a car or on a plane ...

And so ...


I gotta lose some weight and get some stamina back from the last few years
but I like to do that in NYC itself
NYC is small enough that distance wise, it is not that many miles from the tip of lower manhattan, to say the Apollo theatre in Harlem on 125th street
and its an easy enough walk

or just sitting on Columbus circle on W59th street and Broadway, or strolling through the village (which is not the same as the village of old,
but is close to it)

love to people watch

In NYC, actually, any place you sit is like a stoop...and in NYC one continues a conversation two people you don't know are talking in
(ah, excuse me for hearing what you said, but... and 8 of 10 times they don't mind (maybe 7 out of 10)
My wife hates when I do that though. (only do that if it is a general topic, not a personal one).


graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 07:52 AM) *
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:36 AM) *
there is NO train to Nashville Tn at all...you can go NY to Memphis but then you gotta rent a car or a bus to get the 4 hours to Nashville

Maybe they haven't heard of Nashville, or don't know it exists ...



they have a hotel in Nashville "Union Station" which used to actually be Union station, where people went through to get the trains like
Grand Central Station in NYC
an amazing building just to look at
now no passenger trains at all

and they have an international airport
foolish of them to let the trains go

(what's country music without train songs)?

but then they let the whole city go when they up and closed Opryland and put in a mall, when there was room to leave Opryland open
and have the stupid mall...

You know, I used to drive to Houston and Dallas four times a year, and Nashville was like in the middle
every time in the summer when i drove, I would stop both ways in Nashville, even if it was just to go to the wave pool they had there
literally fell asleep once in the wave pool

That is another thing I like to do, find a public swimming place (got that from my grandmother)
If there is any type of watering hole I am in it.

If I had kept up with year round swimming, would never have gotten the weight problem I do now.
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:58 AM) *
I gotta lose some weight and get some stamina back from the last few years

but I like to do that in NYC itself

NYC is small enough that distance wise, it is not that many miles from the tip of lower manhattan, to say the Apollo theatre in Harlem on 125th street and its an easy enough walk

NYC is pretty flat, but it is a lot bigger than SF ....

We used to walk from Times Square down to the Battery and back ....

That's a pretty good walk ....

Maybe jump on the Staten Island ferry and ride it over and back ....

I used to like to stroll around in Washington Park and the Village ...

With the straw and hay hanging out of my ears, it was pretty clear that I wasn't from down there ....

But it never made a difference to the locals ....

Say, graham, if you saw a dude down there that looked like Alfred E. Newman with straw in his ears gawking up at the tall buildings, why, that could have been me ....

And so ...
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 06:05 AM) *
If I had kept up with year round swimming, would never have gotten the weight problem I do now.

It's them sprinkles you eat on your soft ice cream cones, graham ....

Aren't you afraid that you might get one of them caught in your teeth?

And so ...
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 08:09 AM) *
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 06:05 AM) *
If I had kept up with year round swimming, would never have gotten the weight problem I do now.

It's them sprinkles you eat on your soft ice cream cones, graham ....

Aren't you afraid that you might get one of them caught in your teeth?

And so ...



it's the ice cream itself
not to mention the steaks and mashed potatoes and cheese, I love cheese
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 08:06 AM) *
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 05:58 AM) *
I gotta lose some weight and get some stamina back from the last few years

but I like to do that in NYC itself

NYC is small enough that distance wise, it is not that many miles from the tip of lower manhattan, to say the Apollo theatre in Harlem on 125th street and its an easy enough walk

NYC is pretty flat, but it is a lot bigger than SF ....

We used to walk from Times Square down to the Battery and back ....

That's a pretty good walk ....

Maybe jump on the Staten Island ferry and ride it over and back ....

I used to like to stroll around in Washington Park and the Village ...

With the straw and hay hanging out of my ears, it was pretty clear that I wasn't from down there ....

But it never made a difference to the locals ....

Say, graham, if you saw a dude down there that looked like Alfred E. Newman with straw in his ears gawking up at the tall buildings, why, that could have been me ....

And so ...


do you know they are planning on making Times Square Broadway a mall with no cars from 42 to 48th street I think

Yeah, the ferry is the cheapest form of entertainment there is

Livyjr
I have heard rumors ....

Did you ever go up to Coogan's Bluff, graham?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 11 2009, 11:41 AM) *
Mozart and Freemasonry

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For the last seven years of his life Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart was a Mason.

Mozart's own lodge "Zur Wohltätigkeit" was consolidated with two others in December of 1785, under the Imperial reform of Masonry (the Freimaurerpatent, "Masonic Decree") of 11 December 1785, and thus Mozart came to belong to the lodge called "Zur Neugekrönten Hoffnung" (New Crowned Hope).

Mozart's position within the Masonic movement, according to Maynard Solomon, lay with the rationalist, Enlightenment-inspired membership, as opposed to those members oriented toward mysticism and the occult.

This rationalist faction is identified by Katherine Thomson as the Illuminati, a masonically inspired group which was founded by Bavarian professor of canon law Adam Weishaupt, who was also a friend of Mozart's.

The Illuminati espoused the Enlightenment-inspired, humanist views proposed by the French philosophers Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Denis Diderot.

For example, the Illuminati contended that social rank was not coincident with nobility of the spirit, but that people of lowly class could be noble in spirit just as nobly born could be mean-spirited.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_and_Freemasonry

Sturm und Drang

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sturm und Drang (the conventional translation is "Storm and Stress"; a more literal translation, however, might be storm and urge, storm and longing, storm and drive or storm and impulse) is the name of a movement in German literature and music taking place from the late 1760s through the early 1780s in which individual subjectivity and, in particular, extremes of emotion were given free expression in response to the confines of rationalism imposed by the Enlightenment and associated aesthetic movements.

The philosopher Johann Georg Hamann is considered to be the ideologue of Sturm und Drang, and Johann Wolfgang von Goethe was a notable proponent of the movement, though he and Friedrich Schiller ended their period of association with it, initiating what would become Weimar Classicism.

Historical background

Counter-Enlightenment

French Neoclassicism, a movement beginning in the early baroque, and its preoccupation with rational congruity, was the principal target of rebellion for authors who would be known as adherents to the Sturm und Drang movement.

The overt sentimentalism and need to project an objective, anti-personal characterization or image was at odds with the latent desire to express troubling personal emotions and an individual subjective perspective on reality.

The ideals of rationalism, empiricism and universalism traditionally associated with the Enlightenment were combated by an emerging notion that the reality constructed in the wake of this monumental change in values was not an adequate reflection of the human experience and that a revolutionary restatement was necessary to fully convey the extremes of inner pain and torment, and the reality that personal motivations consist of a balance between the pure and impure.


Origin of the term

The term Sturm und Drang first appeared as the title to a play about the ongoing American Revolution by German author Friedrich Maximilian Klinger, published in 1776, in which the author gives violent expression to difficult emotions and heralds individual expression and subjectivity over the natural order of rationalism.

Though it is argued that literature and music associated with Sturm und Drang predate this seminal work, it is this point at which historical analysis begins to outline a distinct aesthetic movement occurring between the late 1760s through the early 1780s of which German artists of the period were distinctly self-conscious.

Contrary to the dominant post-enlightenment literary movements of the time, this reaction, seemingly spontaneous in its appearance, came to be associated with a wide breadth of German authors and composers of the mid to late classical period.

Sturm und Drang came to be associated with literature or music aiming to frighten the audience or imbue them with extremes of emotion until the dispersement of the movement into Weimar Classicism and the eventual transition into early Romanticism where socio-political aims were incorporated (these aims asserting unified values contrary to despotism and limitations on human freedom) along with a religious treatment of all things natural.

There is much debate regarding whose work should and should not be included in the canon of Sturm und Drang; there being an argument for limiting the movement to Goethe, Herder, Lenz and their direct German associates writing works of fiction and philosophy between 1770 and the early 1780s.

The alternative perspective is that of a literary movement inextricably linked to simultaneous developments in prose, poetry, and drama extending its direct influence throughout the German-speaking lands until the end of the 18th century.

Nevertheless, it should be noted that the originators of the movement viewed it as a time of premature exuberance which was then abandoned in later years for often conflicting artistic pursuits.

Related aesthetic and philosophical movements

Kraftmensch existed as a precursor to Sturm und Drang among dramatists beginning with F.M. Klinger, the expression of which is seen in the radical degree to which individuality need appeal to no outside force outside the self nor be tempered by rationalism.

These ideals are identical to those of Sturm und Drang, and it can be argued that the later name exists to catalog a number of parallel, co-influential movements in German literature rather than express anything substantially different than what German dramatists were achieving in the violent plays attributed to the Kraftmensch movement.

Major philosophical/theoretical influences on the literary Sturm und Drang movement were Johann Georg Hamann (especially the 1762 text Aesthetica in nuce. Eine Rhapsodie in kabbalistischer Prose) and Johann Gottfried Herder, both from Königsberg, and both formerly in contact with Immanuel Kant.

Significant theoretical statements of Sturm und Drang aesthetics by the movement's central dramatists themselves include Lenz' Anmerkungen übers Theater and Goethe's Von deutscher Baukunst and Zum Schäkespears Tag (sic).

The most important contemporary document was the 1773 volume Von deutscher Art und Kunst.

Einige fliegende Blätter, a collection of essays which included commentaries by Herder on Ossian and Shakespeare, along with contributions by Goethe, Paolo Frisi (in translation from the Italian), and Justus Möser.

Sturm und Drang in literature

Characteristics

The protagonist in a typical Sturm und Drang stage work, poem, or novel is driven to action not by pursuit of noble means nor by true motives, but by revenge and greed.

Further, this action to which the primary character is drawn is often one of violence.


Goethe's unfinished Prometheus exemplifies this along with the common ambiguity provided by the interspersion of humanistic platitudes next to outbursts of irrationality.

The literature with Sturm und Drang has an anti-aristocratic slant and places value on those things humble, natural, or intensely real (i.e. painful, tormenting, or frightening).

The story of hopeless love and eventual suicide presented in Goethe's sentimental novel The Sorrows of Young Werther (1774) is an example of the author's tempered introspection regarding his love and torment.

Friedrich Schiller's drama, Die Räuber (1781), provided the groundwork for melodrama to become a recognized dramatic form through a plot portraying the conflict between two aristocratic brothers, Franz and Karl Moor.

Franz is portrayed as a villain attempting to cheat Karl out of his inheritance, though the motives for his action are complex and initiate a thorough investigation of good and evil.

Both of these works are seminal examples of Sturm und Drang in German literature.

In music

The Classical era music (1750-1800) associated with Sturm und Drang was predominantly written in a minor key conveying a sense of difficult or depressing sentiment.

The major themes of a piece tend to be angular, with large leaps and unpredictable melodic contour.

Tempos change rapidly and unpredictably, as do dynamics in order to reflect strong changes in emotion.

Pulsing rhythms and syncopation are common as are racing lines in the soprano or alto registers.

For string players, tremolo is a point of emphasis, as are sudden and dramatic dynamic changes and accents.


History

Musical theater stands as the meeting place where the literary movement Sturm und Drang enters the realm of musical composition with the aim of increasing emotional expression in opera.

The obligato recitative is a prime example.

Here, orchestral accompaniment provides an intense underlay capable of vivid tone-painting to the solo recitative (recitative itself being influenced by Greek monody—the highest form of individual emotional expression in neo-platonic thought).

Christoph Willibald Gluck's 1761 opera, Don Juan, exemplifies the emergence of Sturm und Drang in music including explicit reference in the program notes that the intent of the D minor finale was to evoke fear in the listener.

Jean Jacques Rousseau's Pygmalion (1770) is a similarly important bridge in its use of underlying instrumental music to convey the mood of spoken drama to the audience.

The first example of musical melodrama, Goethe and others important to German literature were influenced by this work.

Nevertheless, in comparison to the influence of Sturm und Drang on literature, the influence on musical composition remained limited and many efforts to label music as conforming to this thought current are tenuous at best.

Vienna, the seat of the major German-speaking composers—Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Joseph Haydn specifically—was a cosmopolitan city with an international culture.

Hence, those writing instrumental music in the city were writing more expressive music in minor modes with innovative melodic elements as the result of a longer progression in artistic movements occurring throughout Europe.

The clearest connections can be realized in opera and the early predecessors of program music such as Haydn's Farewell Symphony.

Haydn

A Sturm und Drang period is often attributed to Viennese composer Joseph Haydn between the late 1760s through the early 1770s.

Works during this period often feature an impassioned or agitated element, although pinning this as worthy of inclusion in the Sturm und Drang movement is difficult.

Haydn never states this self-conscious literary movement as the motivation for his new compositional style.

Though Haydn may have not considered his music as a direct statement affirming these anti-rational ideals (there is still an overarching adherence to form and motivic unity), one can draw a connection to the influence of musical theater upon his instrumental works with Haydn's writing essentially two degrees removed from Goethe and his compatriots.

Mozart

Mozart's Symphony No. 25 (1773), otherwise known as the 'Little' G Minor Symphony, is unusual for a classical symphony as it is in a minor key, being one of two minor symphonies written by Mozart in his career.

Beyond its minor key, the symphony demonstrates rhythmic syncopation along with the jagged themes associated with musical Sturm und Drang.

More interesting is the emancipation of the wind instruments in this piece with the violin yielding to colorful bursts from the oboe and flute.

Exhibiting the ordered presentation of agitation and stress expected in the literature of Sturm und Drang, it is the influence of Vanhal's manic-depressive minor key pieces on Mozart's writing rather than a self-conscious adherence to a German literary movement which can be held responsible for Mozart's harmonic and melodic experiments in Symphony No 25.

Notable composers and works

Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach

Symphonies, keyboard concertos and sonatas

Johann Christian Bach

Symphony in G minor op.6 No.6

Johann Christoph Friedrich Bach

Oratorio Die Auferweckung des Lazarus
Cantata Cassandra

Wilhelm Friedemann Bach

Adagio und Fuge in D minor Falk 65

Joseph Haydn

Symphony No. 49 in F minor La Passione (1768)
Symphony No. 44 in E minor Trauer (Mourning) (1772)
Symphony No. 45 in F sharp minor Farewell (1772)
Symphony No. 26 in D minor Lamentatione
String Quartet No. 23 in F minor, Op. 20 No. 5 (1772)

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

Symphony No. 25 in G minor, K. 183 (1773)

Christoph Willibald Gluck

Ballet Don Juan (1761)
Opera Orfeo ed Euridice (1762)

Luigi Boccherini

Symphony in D minor La Casa del Diavolo G. 506 (1771)

Carl Ditters von Dittersdorf

Symphonies

In visual art

The parallel movement in the visual arts can be witnessed in paintings of storms and shipwrecks showing the terror and irrational destruction wrought by nature.

These pre-romantic works were fashionable in Germany from the 1760s on through the 1780s, illustrating a public audience for emotionally provocative artwork.

Additionally, disturbing visions and portrayals of nightmares were gaining an audience in Germany as evidenced by Goethe's possession and admiration of paintings by Fuseli capable of 'giving the viewer a good fright.'

Notable artists included Joseph Vernet, Philip James de Loutherbourg, and Henry Fuseli.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturm_und_Drang"
graham4anything
I haven't been anything more than driving past that area in years
Livyjr
Clint Eastwood filmed one of his movies up there .....

The one with the motorcycle chase ...

There is an art museum in an old cloisters there .....

I have been there, although not in quite a while ....

It is quite a ways north on Manhattan ....

There were people down there who didn't know where or what it was ....

I was curious if you had heard of it ...

And so ....
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 04:23 PM) *
Clint Eastwood filmed one of his movies up there .....

The one with the motorcycle chase ...

There is an art museum in an old cloisters there .....

I have been there, although not in quite a while ....

It is quite a ways north on Manhattan ....

There were people down there who didn't know where or what it was ....

I was curious if you had heard of it ...

And so ....


is that actually THE Cloisters? one and the same?
I was thinkiing it was something different
probably around 1988 was the last time I was there then

I think from there you can see a lighthouse in the river too
Livyjr
I think Coogan's Bluff might be the name for the greater area, which is rocky ....

But The Cloisters is what is there where Coogan's Bluff is located ...

That is what I was referencing ....

Did you ever meet Clint?
graham4anything
QUOTE(Livyjr @ May 16 2009, 04:49 PM) *
I think Coogan's Bluff might be the name for the greater area, which is rocky ....

But The Cloisters is what is there where Coogan's Bluff is located ...

That is what I was referencing ....

Did you ever meet Clint?



yeah.
He speaks very low.
He could have been a very successful musician if he went in that direction

Honkytonk Man was a very underrated movie he starred in as a Hank Williams type singer trying to get a record made and playing the Opry
He actually had 2 #1 country hits as duet partners
Bar room Buddies was a great song he sang with Merle Haggard, from one of the two movies with the Orangatang
and Make my day with T.G. Shepard

love his end theme from his movie Gran Torino this past year
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 04:14 PM) *
yeah.

He speaks very low.

He could have been a very successful musician if he went in that direction

Really, graham ...

Wow, I never knew that, either ....

graham's COLLEGE OF CULTURE is in session ....

Do you remember that movie I am talking about?

It's name was Coogan's Bluff, now that I recall it ....

And so ...
Livyjr
QUOTE(graham4anything @ May 16 2009, 04:14 PM) *
Honkytonk Man was a very underrated movie he starred in as a Hank Williams type singer trying to get a record made and playing the Opry

He actually had 2 #1 country hits as duet partners

I don't recall that movie ...

But that don't mean much ....

And it is interesting that Clint made some records ....

I always think of him as the movie tough guy ....

And so ...
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