Posted on Sun, Jul. 19, 2009 <h1 id="storyTitle">Woman killed by stray gunfire in KC</h1> A woman was killed in Kansas City early Sunday when she was hit by stray gunfire near 34th Street and Troost Avenue.

Police say they discovered the woman dead at the scene along with a man who had been shot. He was taken to a hospital and listed in serious condition.

The two apparently were victims of stray gunfire between two vehicles traveling south on Troost about 1:20 a.m. Police say they received some calls about gunfire near where the victims were found prior to the killing.

Anybody with information is asked to call the TIPS hotline at 816-474-TIPS.

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Her name is Lynn and a prayer would be appreciated. Her grandmother my mother in law buried all her children and now her grandchildren. Prayers for her would also be appreciated.

Guns are vilent weather in the home, on the streets or at war. Every one suffers.

Cutecat.....I am so very sorry for your loss. I will certainly keep you and all of your family members in my prayers.

Yes -- your sad experience here provides yet another valid argument for stiffer gun control laws.

I second that cutecat. A friend of mine and his wife who manage an Apartment building had a thankfully less lethal experience recently that was reported on the front page of the Long Beach Press Telegram about two weeks ago.

They both sleep on the roof of the Apt (outside) and one morning while he was brushing his teeth indoors a 9mm bullet hit her in the head while she was still sleeping. It penetrated her forehead (just above her eye) and exited her skull missing her eye, blasted a hole in her pillow, and then the mattress. She is alright and recovering, but the police believe they've matched the bullet to a gun fired by a man almost a half mile away into the air during a gun battle in downtown Long Beach California. Apparently the bullet went up in a high arc and then descended striking her.

Guns don't kill people - bullets from guns do.

Perhaps we should ban bullets. There is nothing in the 2nd amendment to stop us from doing so

I knew I could count on you. Another reason CGCS is so important to me.

Guns kill and bullets kill.

I am very sorry for your personal loss, for your mother-in-law's loss, and for the world's loss.

Guns never saved anybody at all. That is NRA hokum.
Without guns, these two people would not have even been hurt (had it been a knife fight, punches, whatever, these two were totally innocent bystanders).

I am very sorry for your loss....


The problem with gun control is that criminals wouldn't follow any new laws. They do not do it now..
Why not let non violent (Mostly drug offenders) out and make room to keep the predators off the streets?
We need to enforce existing laws before adding any new ones...

I know you understand I am not making light of the tragedy. My point was that countless decades have been wasted fighting the NRA about whether the "right to bear arms" applies to individuals or to "militia members". Perhaps going after ammunition is a better way. There is nothing in the constitution (they used their own cast lead balls) and made or bought powder for their muskets.

Cartridges did not appear until the time of the Civil War.

If we controlled the manufacture and sale of cartridges (like we do liquor and drugs), perhaps we could drastically cut down on just who gets to buy ammunition.

And I know that criminals will always evade the law - that's their game. And gun nuts will load their own. They already do.

But the criminals and gun nuts do not cause these awful tragedies.

Just a thought.

OK watch this story as a car dealer in Missouri is getting ready to give AK 47's away with car purchase.

This is the problem, wealth, attitude and smugness...................

http://www.kctv5.com/video/20085847/index.html

It is estimated that there are some 100 million firearms in the USA.

There is no way we are going to be rid of them. For better or for worse, they are a part of our heritage and culture.

I was just exploring a different approach to cut down on these senseless killings. I have no problem with the gun freak who owns 100 guns, fondles them every day, cleans and polishes them...

He will probably never fire one of them.

Cutecat, I am very sorry for the loss of you neice.

Having said that...

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/291/10/1238



Main Outcome Measures
Actual causes of death.

Results The leading causes of death in 2000 were tobacco (435 000 deaths; 18.1% of total US deaths),
poor diet and physical inactivity (400 000 deaths; 16.6%), and alcohol consumption (85 000 deaths; 3.5%).
Other actual causes of death were microbial agents (75 000), toxic agents (55 000), motor vehicle crashes (43 000),
incidents involving firearms (29 000), sexual behaviors (20 000), and illicit use of drugs (17 000).

Banning guns or ammunition is not the answer to criminal behavior. We must deal with criminals.

(29 000) by use of firearms in 2000 is 29,000 too many! Remember fire arms like war takes the youngest generations.

This more current information from National Health and Education 60% of high school students say they know where a gun is if they went to get it....
http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafet.../statistics.htm


Statistics: Gun Violence in Our Communities
School Safety
Less than 1% of all homicides among school-aged children (5-19 years of
age) occur in or around school grounds or on the way to and from
school. (Centers for Disease Control, 1997)
Children and Gun Violence
In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)

America and Gun Violence
American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)

Guns in the Wrong Hands
Faulty records enable terrorists, illegal aliens and criminals to purchase guns. Over a two and a half-year period, at least 9,976 convicted felons and other illegal buyers in 46 states obtained guns because of inadequate records. (Broken Records, Americans for Gun Safety Foundation)

School Safety

• Between 1994 and 1999, there were 220 school associated violent events resulting in 253 deaths - - 74.5% of these involved firearms. Handguns caused almost 60% of these deaths. (Journal of American Medical Association, December 2001)
• In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000)
• Nearly 8% of adolescents in urban junior and senior high schools miss at least one day of school each month because they are afraid to attend. (National Mental Health & Education Center for Children & Families, National Association of School Psychologists 1998)
• The National School Boards Association estimates that more than 135,000 guns are brought into U.S. schools each day. (NSBA, 1993)
  

Children and Gun Violence

• America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)
• In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund)
• The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

America and Gun Violence

• Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence)
• The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
• American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)

Guns in the Wrong Hands

• Americans for Gun Safety produced a 2003 report that reveals that 20 of the nation’s 22 national gun laws are not enforced. According to U.S. Department of Justice data (FY 2000-2002), only 2% of federal gun crimes were actually prosecuted. Eighty-five percent of cases prosecuted relate to street criminals in possession of firearms. Ignored are laws intended to punish illegal gun trafficking, firearm theft, corrupt gun dealers, lying on a criminal background check form, obliterating firearm serial numbers, selling guns to minors and possessing a gun in a school zone. To access The Enforcement Gap: Federal Gun Laws Ignored, visit http://w3.agsfoundation.com/. For a state-by-state chart of gun crimes (FY 2000-2002), click here.
• Studies show that 1 percent of gun stores sell the weapons traced to 57 percent of gun crimes. According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the dealer that armed the DC area sniper is among this small group of problem gun dealers that "supply the suppliers" who funnel guns to the nation's criminals. (Between 1997 and 2001, guns sold by this dealer were involved in 52 crimes, including homicides, kidnappings and assaults. Still open today, it also can't account for 238 guns or say whether they were stolen, lost or sold, or if their buyers underwent felony-background checks.) As a result, these few gun dealers have a vastly disproportionate impact on public safety. The ATF can recognize such dealers based on: (1) guns stolen from inventory; (2) missing federal sales records, needed by police to solve crimes; (3) having 10 weapons a year traced to crimes; (4) frequently selling multiple guns to individual buyers; and (5) short times between gun sales and their involvement in crimes. Yet ATF enforcement is weak due to a lack of Congressional support and resources. For more details, click here.
• Terrorists have purchased firearms at gun shows, where unlicensed sellers are not currently required to conduct background checks or to ask for identification. According to the Middle East Intelligence Report, for example, a Hezbollah member was arrested in November 2000, after a nine-month investigation by the FBI's counter-terrorism unit. Ali Boumelhem was later convicted on seven counts of weapons charges and conspiracy to ship weapons and ammunition to Lebanon. Federal agents had observed Boumelhem, a resident of Detroit and Beirut, travel to Michigan gun shows and buy gun parts and ammunition for shipment overseas. Boumelhem was prohibited from legally purchasing guns as gun stores because he was a convicted felon. Additional cases involve a Pakistani national with an expired (1988) student visa; a Lebanese native and Hamas member with numerous felony convictions; and a supporter of the Irish Republican Army. (USA Today, Wednesday, November 28, 2001 Americans for Gun Safety)

• ://http://w3.agsfoundation.com/. F...="2"]According to Americans for Gun Safety (December 2002), gun theft is most likely in states without laws requiring safe storage of firearms in the home and where there are large numbers of gun owners and relatively high crime rates. Based on FBI data, nearly 1.7 million guns have been reported stolen in the past ten years, and only 40% of those were recovered. The missing guns, over 80% of which are taken from homes or cars, most likely fuel the black market for criminals. NEA, AGS and the National Rifle Association advocate for safe storage. To access "Stolen Guns: Arming the Enemy" visit <a href="http://www.agsfoundation.com/">www.agsfoundation.com.

• The American Medical Association reports that between 36% and 50% of male eleventh graders believe that they could easily get a gun if they wanted one.

• In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000)

• According to a report by the Joshephson Institute of Ethics (2000 Report Card: Report #1), 60% of high school and 31% of middle school boys said they could get a gun if they wanted to (April, 2001).

So, it's better to shoot old people?

Just as with drunk drivers...you remove the criminal person from the vehicle...not all vehicles from the street.

Problems related to guns, tobacco, alcohol, drugs, automobiles, fire, etc. should be handled primarily
with education and secondarily with health services--not law enforcement...

Have at it!

So sorry for your tragic loss. Prayers to you and your family.

Thumbs up on your post bigtom.

I've often wondered about the leap in logic it takes to get from A to B in regards to legislating more gun control. As bigtom points out those who don't follow current gun laws sure as heck don't care if more laws are passed regarding gun control. If they are not following current law what in the heck makes you think they are going to follow "new and improved" laws? Give me a friggin' break. All more laws do is infringe on a Constitutional Amendment aka a freedom that I cherish. You don't have to like guns and you certainly are within your God given right to disagree but there is a slippery slope when it comes to curbing freedoms. You (not you bigtom) may want to start with guns but what's going to keep that from seeping into other areas and freedoms.

unlimited guns is fine by me, assuming...

let's do away with bullets

without bullets no one would die and collectors would have their guns

and that cute deer down the road can go on lviing without fear some lunatic will shoot (badly) and harm it.

Without bullets, all those the other day would be alive.

Without bullets, the shooters at different schools would have killed no one

Without bullets, there would be no war
and no casualties (at least Americans)

Without bullets, Mr. Randy Weaver would not have seen his wife shot cowardly in the back
Without bullets, people assasssinated by the NYPD would still be alive

without bullets, Ronald Reagan wouldn't have been shot by Bush41 family friend son (and manchurian) Hinkley
and then bush took over in the coup'd'etat it really was

bullets kill, the important ones ususally by bushfamilyinc members.

and finally,
let's ban Walmart's and Black Friday
and Mr Damour would still be alive, not stampeded to death by a bunch of white vultures looking for nirvana in the face of a 52 inch hidef tv

Since I didn't see this post in the beginning and it has been brought forward today, just wanted to say I'm sorry, cutecat, for your loss and of your MIL's. Sending prayers your way.

Guns really probably do more harm than good. Even if you have one for protection, there's no guarantee it will work right or that someone won't be accidentally shot in the process.

There has been this serial rapist in our area for months now. He is going around, raping elderly women in the wee hours of the night. He raped an elderly women just two houses down from my parents house. My mother has a gun and I don't know that it's necessarily a good thing, but a lot of elderly women are really scared. But he only preys on the ones that live alone, have no pets, etc. So my BIL's mother who also lives down from my parents has left to go live with her daughter out of State until the perpetrator is caught.

At this one house, the woman had a gun, but it jammed when she tried to use it on him, and by the time it went off, the perpetrator had escaped. And the bad thing about it is that it happens in the dark of the night and these ladies are not able to see well and get a good description of the guy.

But as for guns, I don't know how helpful they are because the person will either freeze up and end up shooting someone else.

As a supporter of gun rights, I really must take the time to thank you.
While some here have sane, valid reasons for their views you make it easier
for me to keep my guns. It's wild eyed folks like you who whip up the NRA to action and
allow us to soundly defeat any attempt to take away my rights. Most states have added
gun rights to their own constitutions because of people like you...

Once again THANKS for the hysteria!

Sorry for your loss.

My wife and I have several handguns, and we shoot as often as possible. We also each have a concealed handgun license (CHL) which allows us to "carry" in public for our own protection. However, unlike some who also have CHL's, I do not carry all of the time, and I hope and pray that I will never have to resort to deadly force if my life is threatened. Getting a CHL involves taking a course on laws, proper handling and operation, and handgun safety. Following classroom instruction, the candidate has to show competency at a range for the instructor. One also has to get a background check and submit fingerprints to be kept on file. Once these things have been done, and a pretty hefty fee paid for the course and for the background checks, a license is issued. Those who possess a CHL are probabl;y the safest people you could have around you, since they know better than most what the consequences of using a handgun as a last defense are.

I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

I HIGHLY doubt that whoever fired the shots were in legal pssession of the handgun(s).

Again, sorry for your loss.

always wonder what people have done to have such paranoia that people are after them
and carry a gun to prevent it

prevent what?

I have livedin the NY area my entire life, and when the press said NYC was so dangerous in the 1970s, not one person ever bothered me or anyone I know

its not as if blackwater took over the country anyone's puny gun will stop them

after all, you need 1000 bullets, what happens when you need 1001?

you can't reload if you need it now at that moment

more than likely you will shoot an innocent or a family member (not you personally bigtom, but others)

I see that Arkansas has stringent laws for those who are allowed to carry concealed. A question for you: why don't these laws also apply to people who open carry?

If it were the government coming at me Waco style I would throw my gun down!

I was trained by Uncle Sam (M-16, Colt 1911, M-60, M-203) and have taken multiple classes in gun safety...
#1 Never shoot unless you can see the target.
#2 Never play with a gun. If you have it out it is serious and it is only used as a last resort.

Open carry is rarly practiced anymore. It is part of the Missouri Constitution, however.

Well state Sir--HOOAH!

The OP has my heartfelt sympathies...such a tragic situation. Prayers up to the entire family and those affected by this terrible loss!

But, I'm wondering why laws are different for open and closed carry? If someone is carrying a handgun around, regardless of it being concealed or in sight, why shouldn't the more stringent laws apply to both cases?

Good question....You think the criminal element will buy into it? It is up to the states to set the guide lines in this regard.

Answer this question-

why was Hinkley allowed to be so close to Reagan in 1981? Why wasn't the block cordoned off? (although in retrospect it seems obvious).

Don't know...I wasn't part of his security team at that time!

I'd like to read the SS after action report. I'm sure the TTP's changed radically afterwards...

because it was an inside job and the security was on the staff of the incoming power that changed hands that never let go of that power to this day.
Just months into the 1st year of the 1st reagan term.

who wanted to get rid of guns in New Orleans during Katrina? Same family attempted that if you recall
Same famly that in a most odd thing, were almost BFF with the parents of same kid mentioned here.

in retrospect, somethings are too coincidental to have been a coincidence, but people never looked at it.
in retrospect, JFMA should have been the code people were saying...(Jodie F. my asss).

that led to more regulations than anything else in modern times, didn't it?

I have said in the past, Frenchy made a good argument for the fact that gun "nuts" will be the ones to save regular joe's when THEY come in.
and I had for a few years changed my view because of him
But I do not see how a few more regulations would harm anything
And, sadly, the events that take place including Mr. Hasan and Dylan&Eric and the others lead to one and only one conclusion-the guns did the
killing.
A fist or a knife might kill one or two, but the massacres are because of the guns or more so the bullets.
(and don't give me the hokum about someone concocting something else, because most people are science illiterate).

and yes, a few statistically people are killed during a robbery, but more die from the flu each year or fall in their bathtub.
ANd yes, bigtom, you know what you are doing...most people who have a gun for protection have no idea. And I always fear for their spouse or
kids.
And, people I know who have guns(some of them) drink way too much. A beer or three, and its 3am and you hear a sound, after a night of drinking,
heaven help whatever you pick up the gun and kill. (NOT talking about you bigtom, nothing personal here.)

It is a good mantra though bigtom, I grant you that.

I wish PA, and every state, would follow Arkansas style concealed carry laws......PA is SO lax.....I just don't understand why training would not be required of all people who carry guns, concealed or open......sigh......

You forgot knives, cars, alcohol, and a few other things.

If you're gonna go down the ban road you should start with the things that kill more people than guns do.

Can you provide an answer ?
It seems no one has answered your question, so please provide an answer.

Citation Please

All I am reading is opinion

mine.

looking in retrospect going backward

no one ever looked at it that way

an Oliver Stone should do something like that

of course you will have THEM whining about CTers and diverting attention and the truth will never come out
or have some sham official story (like the one where Jodie was the reason)

Odd how people actually believe something as bizarre as that and take it as the truth, yet think so called ct'ers are nuts, crazy, loco, looney, insane

Opinion is not fact
I suggest that your opinion is baseless unless you can offer something to support your position.

G4, I understand that you are very much anti-gun/pro-control but why do you insist that your opinion affect my right? In other words, I respect your 1A right to voice your opinion even if I don't agree with it. However, your opinion converted into legislation would affect my 2A right. Why do you insist on this? You need to remember that preparedness is not the same thing as paranoid.