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kleenex
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...ting.64fa3.html

from article:

Houston example

The News' analysis is based on examining scale scores – the little-known numbers behind the passing rates that typically get public attention. The investigation searched for schools with unusual gaps in performance between grades or subjects. Research has shown that schools that are weak in one subject or one grade are typically weak in others.

Take Sanderson Elementary, a school in a poor Houston area.

In 2003, after years of mediocre performance, it reached what has traditionally been the pinnacle for American schools: The U.S. Department of Education named Sanderson a Blue Ribbon School because of rapid improvement in its test scores.

But the News' analysis raises questions about the validity of Sanderson's TAKS performance, particularly in fifth-grade math.

Sanderson's fourth-graders scored extremely poorly on the math TAKS test. Their average scale score was so low that it ranked Sanderson in the bottom 2 percent of the state: No. 3,173 out of 3,227 schools.

That's roughly what might be expected from a school where 98 percent of the student body is poor enough to qualify for free or reduced lunches. Hundreds of research studies have found that student poverty is the single most important factor in student academic achievement.

But Sanderson's fifth-graders had astonishing success on the math test. They had the highest scale scores of any school in Texas, beating every magnet school, every wealthy suburban school and every high-performing school in the state.

Sanderson didn't just finish No. 1. No other school in the state was even close. In scale-score points, the distance between Sanderson and the No. 2 school was as large as the gap between No. 2 and No. 116. More than 90 percent of Sanderson's fifth-graders got perfect or near-perfect scores.


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How can you tell if the CRAPPY NCLB act is working if this happens.
EvelyninTexas
Yes, unfortunately, this does sound kind of screwy. And it complicates the NCLB picture for those of us who are following the rules sad.gif

Here's the post I made yesterday, when Jason first posted this:
Not only do the test scores in Texas affect teacher's and administrator's ratings, they keep the students from being promoted if they fail.

I do know that my school, which has had the highest rating for nearly 10 years, slipped a notch, to Recognized, because only 89% of our fifth graders passed the science test.

You don't have to cheat to get students to pass the TAKS (Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills). You DO have to teach the state mandated curriculum. Many schools improve their scores dramatically when they rein in teachers who are piddling away with things like dinosaur units (not in the curriculum) and you upgrade the math and science expectations. Our teachers also tutor on their own time after school. I don't know anything about the schools you listed, but if they had massive changes in their programs, scores could rise.

The penalty for cheating, even inadvertent type stuff like telling students to "read carefully" (not in the mandated script), can cause the individual teachers and administrators to either lose their teacher certification or to have it marked for life, which will keep them from moving up the ladder.
Pretty high stakes and it happens enough to keep most teachers honest.
Our school district does lots of training and places test coordinators in every building to ensure that there isn't cheating. So, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, because it does, but the stakes are awfully high, either way. You can lose your job if your kids don't do well, but more likely, you will get lots of "input" and specialized training to help you, but you can also lose your career, permanently, if you are caught cheating.
kleenex
If teachers have been found cheating they should get some major punishment.
EvelyninTexas
QUOTE(kleenex @ Dec 20 2004, 06:49 PM)
If teachers have been found cheating they should get some major punishment.
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They lose their career, for starters. Deliberate cheating, as opposed to the more inadvertent type thing, can be prosecuted. The catch is that much of the "cheating" that occurs is inadvertent. For example, in Dallas a couple of years ago an honors math teacher, after the test was over and had been collected, answered a student's question about how to work a problem on the test. Turns out a school board member's kid mentioned it in passing, a full investigation ensued, and the teacher was censured for it.

This is AFTER the test is over. He was just doing what teachers do, which is to teach kids. In Austin, another teacher was forced to retire for telling fourth grade students to read carefully. (That isn't in the script.) Come on, this is beyond ridiculous. My job at my school involves security of the tests and administering them. We live in fear that someone is going to accuse us of cheating. I have to go through the building and make sure that nothing on bulletin boards contains anything that might help a student with the test. We had a discussion at one point with the district test coordinator about alphabet strips and maps, items that are in every classroom.

Our ESL kids (students who don't speak English), have ONE year to become proficient enough to pass the test. Research shows it takes 5 years to become literate in a second language. Oral proficiency happens sooner, but not reading and writing. I'd like for Mr. Bush to pass the high school exit level math and science tests. I'll bet you money he couldn't. I don't care that he has college degrees.
mom2hs2boys
QUOTE(EvelyninTexas @ Dec 20 2004, 05:21 PM)
Many schools improve their scores dramatically when they rein in teachers who are piddling away with things like dinosaur units (not in the curriculum) and you upgrade the math and science expectations.
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So, why is it wrong if a teacher, with a passion for something that isn't in the curriculum (like dinosaurs), passes that passion on to his/her students? Isn't the whole goal of education to motivate children to teach themselves?

This is my big problem with those tests - that the kids are robbed of the knowledge that learning is a priviledge and joy. They're also taught that life has a multiple choice answer.
ultraist
QUOTE(mom2hs2boys @ Dec 20 2004, 10:05 PM)
So, why is it wrong if a teacher, with a passion for something that isn't in the curriculum (like dinosaurs), passes that passion on to his/her students?  Isn't the whole goal of education to motivate children to teach themselves? 

This is my big problem with those tests - that the kids are robbed of the knowledge that learning is a priviledge and joy.  They're also taught that life has a multiple choice answer.
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Because they are working with one hand tied behind their back. Their students must achieve certain scores to retain the funding for the schools (which translates to jobs) and for the underpaid teachers to recieve bonuses. It's really a shame. Teachers really don't have a choice but to teach to the test.

I read somewhere that the Texas end of the year test was one of the easiest in the nation. Does anyone know if that's accurate? The article also noted that the reason Bush was able to brag that scores increased in his state was because they had revised the test to make it easier and it doesn't really say anything about Texas school children in relation to other states.
ultraist
QUOTE(EvelyninTexas @ Dec 20 2004, 07:37 PM)
I'd like for Mr. Bush to pass the high school exit level math and science tests.  I'll bet you money he couldn't.  I don't care that he has college degrees.
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lol.gif I bet you're right! lol.gif
EvelyninTexas
QUOTE(ultraist @ Dec 20 2004, 11:26 PM)
Because they are working with one hand tied behind their back. Their students must achieve certain scores to retain the funding for the schools (which translates to jobs) and for the underpaid teachers to recieve bonuses. It's really a shame. Teachers really don't have a choice but to teach to the test.

I read somewhere that the Texas end of the year test was one of the easiest in the nation. Does anyone know if that's accurate? The article also noted that the reason Bush was able to brag that scores increased in his state was because they had revised the test to make it easier and it doesn't really say anything about Texas school children in relation to other states.
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Actually, Texas' test is harder than most states' and certainly harder than many of the nationally normed tests. We also give Metropolitan 8 (MAT 8), which is a nationally accepted test. Students who score at the 50th percentile, which is grade level nationally, are at high risk of failing our tests.

The test was revised to make it harder, then the passing rate was raised. That was what I was alluding to when I said my school, which is a Blue Ribbon school and has been at the top of the heap state wide (Exemplary) fell a notch, due to the 89% pass rate for the new 5th grade science test. You have to have 90% in all categories (reading, math, science, all subgroups, poor, black, Hispanic, non-English speaking, and special education) to make Exemplary.

One interesting tidbit about those schools listed: most of them wouldn't have made the top cut anyway, because they were low in another grade level. Of course, one grade can bring another up, but you can't have less than 75% pass rate in any grade level or subgroup.
barkeeper
QUOTE(EvelyninTexas @ Dec 21 2004, 06:22 AM)
Actually, Texas' test is harder than most states' and certainly harder than many of the nationally normed tests.  We also give Metropolitan 8 (MAT 8), which is a nationally accepted test.  Students who score at the 50th percentile, which is grade level nationally, are at high risk of failing our tests.

The test was revised to make it harder, then the passing rate was raised.  That was what I was alluding to when I said my school, which is a Blue Ribbon school and has been at the top of the heap state wide (Exemplary) fell a notch, due to the 89% pass rate for the new 5th grade science test.  You have to have 90% in all categories (reading, math, science, all subgroups, poor, black, Hispanic, non-English speaking, and special education) to make Exemplary.

One interesting tidbit about those schools listed:  most of them wouldn't have made the top cut anyway, because they were low in another grade level.  Of course, one grade can bring another up, but you can't have less than 75% pass rate in any grade level or subgroup.
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Evelynin, your connection to education is more direct than mine, if I misstate facts feel free to hammer me, I try, but I am not always right. Some of this comes from the Dallas Morning News two part report this week, also two local schools which are now open to transfer requests.

When DMN questioned the improbable improvements recorded at Sanderson Elementary in Houston, TEA's response was that they only investigate cheating charges on "request of the district or credible eyewitness reports", something difficult to provide on a test taken in a closed classroom. Even disregarding the statistical improbability of a school going from worst to first in one year, assume the results were untainted, seems to me TEA would want to look at the teaching methods used to obtain so dramatic an improvement in one school year and make that system available statewide. Sanderson also refused to comment due to privacy concerns, curious , since DMN had obtained the overall test results as posted on the Houston ISD website.

Locally, the two schools open to transfer here under "No Child Left Behind", are in barrio attendance districts with high ESL enrollment. Interestingly, few parents seem to blame the schools, very few requests are coming forth. More interestingly, to fail the standard, the school had to have less than 50% passing rate (5th grade test). When I went to school, back when dinosaurs still trod the Earth, 50% was nowhere close to passing grade, at least for us students.

There will always be complaints that any standard test is "unfair" for one reason or another, but we either have some such barometer or we have no clue until the kids graduate and suddenly discover they can't fill out a college or job application, let alone complete a 1040EZ if they are lucky enough to land a job.
EvelyninTexas
Well, TEA's response does match what I know about most of the investigations I've heard of, which involved either another teacher or employee turning a teacher in, or a disgruntled parent (the Austin incident that got a lot of press last year wad turned in by a mad momma. ) There's a lot of pressure to turn people in, as the buck stops with the superiors in the district, all the way to the superintendent and board. But, I guess if the powers that be in Sanderson aren't interested, well...

As to your comment about studying what happens, that is exactly what happened at my school, when we began doing very well. It was kind of funny, people came from all over the state to see what we did, particularly with our minority and ESL students. They were a little disappointed to discover that we just have school, all day, every day, and treat all the children as if they were our own kids, which involves discipline and lots of affection and extra teaching. My principal's name is "First Name..Time on Task...Last Name" (for her privacy ;)_which speaks to what we do, which is teach school all day, using every minute for instruction, with almost no downtime. I worry some days about how little recess and socialization the kids get, but since they all play ball and play in the neighborhood parks, and many do the PTA sponsored scout troops, which are very low cost, they seem to do okay.

We also have dissected the state's curriculum and have a great scope and sequence, so even new teachers can follow it. We use every special program teacher, like ESL and dyslexia, to their fullest advantage, and our handful of teaching assistants do only tutoring and bus and lunchroom duty, no grading papers, no bulletin boards, etc. (We try to use volunteers to do those things, but usually teachers do them on their own time.) But, you can have a very attractive classroom with all the bulletin boards things the students have created. We have an author-of-week board, rewarding one student from each class, kinder and up, with a ribbon and pencil for having the selected writing, which is posted in a main hallway. We also do a "problem of the week" which is a math problem, using higher order thinking skills, which I am in charge of. We call out the student's names who submit the correct solution and they get to come to the office for a little trinket and lots of praise. I love it because it is often the kids who don't ever make the honor roll who will take the time to do a pretty difficult math problem. Our librarian keeps up with an Accelerated Reader program and gives prizes for that. So, one way to success seems to be giving incentives (in the real world, you get promotions and raises for success!)

But, having said all that, all I can say about the effort we have done is that it raises scores a point or two a year, and requires constant diligence to maintain them. It is also cumulative, in that our fifth graders always do better than our fourth graders, and they do better than our third graders. But, those differences are a percentage point or two, not huge numbers like has been listed. So, you can draw your own conclusions about the schools in the story.


QUOTE(barkeeper @ Dec 24 2004, 03:08 PM)
Evelynin, your connection to education is more direct than mine, if I misstate facts feel free to hammer me, I try, but I am not always right. Some of this comes from the Dallas Morning News two part report this week, also two local schools which are now open to transfer requests.

When DMN questioned the improbable improvements recorded at Sanderson Elementary in Houston, TEA's response was that they only investigate cheating charges on "request of the district or credible eyewitness reports", something difficult to provide on a test taken in a closed classroom. Even disregarding the statistical improbability of a school going from worst to first in one year, assume the results were untainted, seems to me TEA would want to look at the teaching methods used to obtain so dramatic an improvement in one school year and make that system available statewide. Sanderson also refused to comment due to privacy concerns, curious , since DMN had obtained the overall test results as posted on the Houston ISD website.

Locally, the two schools open to transfer here under "No Child Left Behind", are in barrio attendance districts with high ESL enrollment. Interestingly, few parents seem to blame the schools, very few requests are coming forth. More interestingly, to fail the standard, the school had to have less than 50% passing rate (5th grade test). When I went to school, back when dinosaurs still trod the Earth, 50% was nowhere close to passing grade, at least for us students.

There will always be complaints that any standard test is "unfair" for one reason or another, but we either have some such barometer or we have no clue until the kids graduate and suddenly discover they can't fill out a college or job application, let alone complete a 1040EZ if they are lucky enough to land a job.
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