The Mysterious Collapse of WTC Seven
- by Prof. David Ray Griffin - 2009-09-14
Why NIST’s Final 9/11 Report is Unscientific and False
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15201
Full Version: The Mysterious Collapse of WTC Seven
Exposing the Criminal Cover-Up of 9/11
Review of David Ray Griffin: The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7
- by Tod Fletcher - 2009-09-16
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15230
Review of David Ray Griffin: The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7
- by Tod Fletcher - 2009-09-16
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15230
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2065783/posts
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 6:19:07 PM by yankeedame
World Trade Center 7 Report Puts 9/11 Conspiracy Theory to Rest
Conspiracy theorists have long claimed that explosives downed World Trade Center 7, north of the Twin Towers. The long-awaited report from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) conclusively rebuts those claims. Fire alone brought down the building, the report concludes, pointing to thermal expansion of key structural members as the culprit. The report also raises concerns that other large buildings might be more vulnerable to fire-induced structural failure than previously thought.
(Thelink to article's video located at the botton of original article.)
World Trade Center 7 stands amid the rubble of the recently collapsed
Twin Towers. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)
The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has released its long-awaited report on the collapse of World Trade 7 following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. "Our take-home message today is that the reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder told journalists at this morning's press conference in Gaithersburg, Md. "WTC 7 collapsed because of fires fueled by office furnishings. It did not collapse from explosives or from diesel fuel fires." Conspiracy theorists have long pointed to the collapse of the 47-story structure as key evidence that the U.S. government orchestrated or abetted the 9/11 attacks. No planes struck the building, and the commonly available views of the exterior didn't show significant damage.
Yet, at 5:20 pm, 7 hours after the collapse of the Twin Towers (WTC 1 and 2), WTC 7 rapidly fell in on itself. Since WTC 7 housed Secret Service and CIA offices, conspiracy theorists claimed that the building was destroyed in a controlled demolition in order to obliterate evidence of the U.S. government's complicity in the terrorist attacks. "It is impossible for a building to fall the way it fell without explosives being involved," stated actress and TV personality Rosie O'Donnell of ABC's The View in March 2007. "For the first time in history, steel was melted by fire. It is physically impossible," she said.
DIAGRAM: Thermal Expansion Causes WTC 7 Floor
Failures(Diagram by Loel Barr)
DIAGRAM: WTC 7 Support Columns and
Floor Framing(Diagram by NIST)
Today's report confirms that a fire was, indeed, the cause. "This is the first time that we are aware of, that a building taller than about 15 stories has collapsed primarily due to fires," Sunder told reporters at the press conference. "What we found was that uncontrolled building fires—similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings—caused an extraordinary event, the collapse of WTC7." The unprecedented nature of the event means that understanding the precise mechanism of the collapse is important not just to answer conspiracy theorists' questions, but to improve safety standards in the engineering of large buildings.
The final report describes how debris from the collapse of WTC 1 ignited fires on at least 10 floors of WTC 7 at the western half of the south face. Fires on Floors 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 burned out of control, because the water supply to the automatic sprinkler system had failed. The primary and backup water supply to the sprinkler systems for the lower floors relied on the city's water supply. Those water lines were damaged by the collapse of WTC 1 and 2. These uncontrolled fires in WTC 7 eventually spread to the northeast part of the building, where the collapse began.
After 7 hours of uncontrolled fires, a steel girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to one of the 81 columns supporting the building. Floor 13 collapsed, beginning a cascade of floor failures to Floor 5. Column 79, no longer supported by a girder, buckled, triggering a rapid succession of structural failures that moved from east to west. All 23 central columns, followed by the exterior columns, failed in what's known as a "progressive collapse"—that is, local damage that spreads from one structural element to another, eventually resulting in the collapse of the entire structure.
The report clarifies a number of widely debated issues concerning the collapse, particularly the role of the building's many diesel fuel tanks and the importance of structural damage from falling WTC 1 debris. Both of those factors have been cited by investigators as possibly contributing to the collapse; the 2006 Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts mentions both hypotheses. However, the final NIST report downplays both scenarios, concluding that the diesel fuel stored in tanks (and intended to power backup generators) did not burn long enough or hot enough to account for structural failures. And, while debris damage to WTC 7's southern exterior was considerable (and initiated the destructive fires), the collapse originated in the northeast portion of the building. In fact, the report concludes: "Even without the structural damage, WTC 7 would have collapsed from fires."
The report determines that the actual culprit in the collapse was the combustion of ordinary building furnishings: "These uncontrolled fires had characteristics similar to those that have occurred previously in tall buildings." If the sprinkler system in WTC 7 had been working, it is likely that "the fires in WTC 7 would have been controlled and the collapse prevented." The report also suggests that current engineering standards for coping with fire-induced thermal expansion need to be re-examined, particularly for buildings like WTC 7 that have long, unsupported floor spans. A key factor in the collapse, NIST concluded, was the failure of structural "connections that were designed to resist gravity loads, but not thermally induced lateral loads." According to Sunder: "For the first time we have shown that fire can induce a progressive collapse."
Spurred by conspiracy theorists' questions, investigators did look specifically at the possibility that explosives were involved. "Hypothetical blast events did not play a role in the collapse of WTC 7," the report states, adding that investigators "found no evidence whose explanation required invocation of a blast event." Moreover, the smallest charge capable of initiating column failure "would have resulted in a sound level of 130 dB [decibels] to 140 dB at a distance of at least half a mile." Witnesses did not report hearing such a loud noise, nor is one audible on recordings of the collapse.
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 6:19:07 PM by yankeedame
World Trade Center 7 Report Puts 9/11 Conspiracy Theory to Rest
Conspiracy theorists have long claimed that explosives downed World Trade Center 7, north of the Twin Towers. The long-awaited report from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) conclusively rebuts those claims. Fire alone brought down the building, the report concludes, pointing to thermal expansion of key structural members as the culprit. The report also raises concerns that other large buildings might be more vulnerable to fire-induced structural failure than previously thought.
(Thelink to article's video located at the botton of original article.)
World Trade Center 7 stands amid the rubble of the recently collapsed
Twin Towers. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)
The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has released its long-awaited report on the collapse of World Trade 7 following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. "Our take-home message today is that the reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder told journalists at this morning's press conference in Gaithersburg, Md. "WTC 7 collapsed because of fires fueled by office furnishings. It did not collapse from explosives or from diesel fuel fires." Conspiracy theorists have long pointed to the collapse of the 47-story structure as key evidence that the U.S. government orchestrated or abetted the 9/11 attacks. No planes struck the building, and the commonly available views of the exterior didn't show significant damage.
Yet, at 5:20 pm, 7 hours after the collapse of the Twin Towers (WTC 1 and 2), WTC 7 rapidly fell in on itself. Since WTC 7 housed Secret Service and CIA offices, conspiracy theorists claimed that the building was destroyed in a controlled demolition in order to obliterate evidence of the U.S. government's complicity in the terrorist attacks. "It is impossible for a building to fall the way it fell without explosives being involved," stated actress and TV personality Rosie O'Donnell of ABC's The View in March 2007. "For the first time in history, steel was melted by fire. It is physically impossible," she said.
DIAGRAM: Thermal Expansion Causes WTC 7 Floor
Failures(Diagram by Loel Barr)
DIAGRAM: WTC 7 Support Columns and
Floor Framing(Diagram by NIST)
Today's report confirms that a fire was, indeed, the cause. "This is the first time that we are aware of, that a building taller than about 15 stories has collapsed primarily due to fires," Sunder told reporters at the press conference. "What we found was that uncontrolled building fires—similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings—caused an extraordinary event, the collapse of WTC7." The unprecedented nature of the event means that understanding the precise mechanism of the collapse is important not just to answer conspiracy theorists' questions, but to improve safety standards in the engineering of large buildings.
The final report describes how debris from the collapse of WTC 1 ignited fires on at least 10 floors of WTC 7 at the western half of the south face. Fires on Floors 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 burned out of control, because the water supply to the automatic sprinkler system had failed. The primary and backup water supply to the sprinkler systems for the lower floors relied on the city's water supply. Those water lines were damaged by the collapse of WTC 1 and 2. These uncontrolled fires in WTC 7 eventually spread to the northeast part of the building, where the collapse began.
After 7 hours of uncontrolled fires, a steel girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to one of the 81 columns supporting the building. Floor 13 collapsed, beginning a cascade of floor failures to Floor 5. Column 79, no longer supported by a girder, buckled, triggering a rapid succession of structural failures that moved from east to west. All 23 central columns, followed by the exterior columns, failed in what's known as a "progressive collapse"—that is, local damage that spreads from one structural element to another, eventually resulting in the collapse of the entire structure.
The report clarifies a number of widely debated issues concerning the collapse, particularly the role of the building's many diesel fuel tanks and the importance of structural damage from falling WTC 1 debris. Both of those factors have been cited by investigators as possibly contributing to the collapse; the 2006 Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts mentions both hypotheses. However, the final NIST report downplays both scenarios, concluding that the diesel fuel stored in tanks (and intended to power backup generators) did not burn long enough or hot enough to account for structural failures. And, while debris damage to WTC 7's southern exterior was considerable (and initiated the destructive fires), the collapse originated in the northeast portion of the building. In fact, the report concludes: "Even without the structural damage, WTC 7 would have collapsed from fires."
The report determines that the actual culprit in the collapse was the combustion of ordinary building furnishings: "These uncontrolled fires had characteristics similar to those that have occurred previously in tall buildings." If the sprinkler system in WTC 7 had been working, it is likely that "the fires in WTC 7 would have been controlled and the collapse prevented." The report also suggests that current engineering standards for coping with fire-induced thermal expansion need to be re-examined, particularly for buildings like WTC 7 that have long, unsupported floor spans. A key factor in the collapse, NIST concluded, was the failure of structural "connections that were designed to resist gravity loads, but not thermally induced lateral loads." According to Sunder: "For the first time we have shown that fire can induce a progressive collapse."
Spurred by conspiracy theorists' questions, investigators did look specifically at the possibility that explosives were involved. "Hypothetical blast events did not play a role in the collapse of WTC 7," the report states, adding that investigators "found no evidence whose explanation required invocation of a blast event." Moreover, the smallest charge capable of initiating column failure "would have resulted in a sound level of 130 dB [decibels] to 140 dB at a distance of at least half a mile." Witnesses did not report hearing such a loud noise, nor is one audible on recordings of the collapse.
taz- you actually already admitted the real official story is fake in one of your many posts
so you are a "truther" in effect too
why do you keep trying to debunk the truth (that you already have said the official story is not correct).
If one part of the official story is bogus, then it all is.
house of cards, one falls, they all do.
and the above debunking the truthers was debunked on six other threads here.
so you are a "truther" in effect too
why do you keep trying to debunk the truth (that you already have said the official story is not correct).
If one part of the official story is bogus, then it all is.
house of cards, one falls, they all do.
and the above debunking the truthers was debunked on six other threads here.
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Oct 15 2009, 05:01 PM) 
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2065783/posts
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 6:19:07 PM by yankeedame
World Trade Center 7 Report Puts 9/11 Conspiracy Theory to Rest
Conspiracy theorists have long claimed that explosives downed World Trade Center 7, north of the Twin Towers. The long-awaited report from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) conclusively rebuts those claims. Fire alone brought down the building, the report concludes, pointing to thermal expansion of key structural members as the culprit. The report also raises concerns that other large buildings might be more vulnerable to fire-induced structural failure than previously thought.
(Thelink to article's video located at the botton of original article.)
World Trade Center 7 stands amid the rubble of the recently collapsed
Twin Towers. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)
The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has released its long-awaited report on the collapse of World Trade 7 following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. "Our take-home message today is that the reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder told journalists at this morning's press conference in Gaithersburg, Md. "WTC 7 collapsed because of fires fueled by office furnishings. It did not collapse from explosives or from diesel fuel fires." Conspiracy theorists have long pointed to the collapse of the 47-story structure as key evidence that the U.S. government orchestrated or abetted the 9/11 attacks. No planes struck the building, and the commonly available views of the exterior didn't show significant damage.
Yet, at 5:20 pm, 7 hours after the collapse of the Twin Towers (WTC 1 and 2), WTC 7 rapidly fell in on itself. Since WTC 7 housed Secret Service and CIA offices, conspiracy theorists claimed that the building was destroyed in a controlled demolition in order to obliterate evidence of the U.S. government's complicity in the terrorist attacks. "It is impossible for a building to fall the way it fell without explosives being involved," stated actress and TV personality Rosie O'Donnell of ABC's The View in March 2007. "For the first time in history, steel was melted by fire. It is physically impossible," she said.
DIAGRAM: Thermal Expansion Causes WTC 7 Floor
Failures(Diagram by Loel Barr)
DIAGRAM: WTC 7 Support Columns and
Floor Framing(Diagram by NIST)
Today's report confirms that a fire was, indeed, the cause. "This is the first time that we are aware of, that a building taller than about 15 stories has collapsed primarily due to fires," Sunder told reporters at the press conference. "What we found was that uncontrolled building fires—similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings—caused an extraordinary event, the collapse of WTC7." The unprecedented nature of the event means that understanding the precise mechanism of the collapse is important not just to answer conspiracy theorists' questions, but to improve safety standards in the engineering of large buildings.
The final report describes how debris from the collapse of WTC 1 ignited fires on at least 10 floors of WTC 7 at the western half of the south face. Fires on Floors 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 burned out of control, because the water supply to the automatic sprinkler system had failed. The primary and backup water supply to the sprinkler systems for the lower floors relied on the city's water supply. Those water lines were damaged by the collapse of WTC 1 and 2. These uncontrolled fires in WTC 7 eventually spread to the northeast part of the building, where the collapse began.
After 7 hours of uncontrolled fires, a steel girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to one of the 81 columns supporting the building. Floor 13 collapsed, beginning a cascade of floor failures to Floor 5. Column 79, no longer supported by a girder, buckled, triggering a rapid succession of structural failures that moved from east to west. All 23 central columns, followed by the exterior columns, failed in what's known as a "progressive collapse"—that is, local damage that spreads from one structural element to another, eventually resulting in the collapse of the entire structure.
The report clarifies a number of widely debated issues concerning the collapse, particularly the role of the building's many diesel fuel tanks and the importance of structural damage from falling WTC 1 debris. Both of those factors have been cited by investigators as possibly contributing to the collapse; the 2006 Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts mentions both hypotheses. However, the final NIST report downplays both scenarios, concluding that the diesel fuel stored in tanks (and intended to power backup generators) did not burn long enough or hot enough to account for structural failures. And, while debris damage to WTC 7's southern exterior was considerable (and initiated the destructive fires), the collapse originated in the northeast portion of the building. In fact, the report concludes: "Even without the structural damage, WTC 7 would have collapsed from fires."
The report determines that the actual culprit in the collapse was the combustion of ordinary building furnishings: "These uncontrolled fires had characteristics similar to those that have occurred previously in tall buildings." If the sprinkler system in WTC 7 had been working, it is likely that "the fires in WTC 7 would have been controlled and the collapse prevented." The report also suggests that current engineering standards for coping with fire-induced thermal expansion need to be re-examined, particularly for buildings like WTC 7 that have long, unsupported floor spans. A key factor in the collapse, NIST concluded, was the failure of structural "connections that were designed to resist gravity loads, but not thermally induced lateral loads." According to Sunder: "For the first time we have shown that fire can induce a progressive collapse."
Spurred by conspiracy theorists' questions, investigators did look specifically at the possibility that explosives were involved. "Hypothetical blast events did not play a role in the collapse of WTC 7," the report states, adding that investigators "found no evidence whose explanation required invocation of a blast event." Moreover, the smallest charge capable of initiating column failure "would have resulted in a sound level of 130 dB [decibels] to 140 dB at a distance of at least half a mile." Witnesses did not report hearing such a loud noise, nor is one audible on recordings of the collapse.
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 6:19:07 PM by yankeedame
World Trade Center 7 Report Puts 9/11 Conspiracy Theory to Rest
Conspiracy theorists have long claimed that explosives downed World Trade Center 7, north of the Twin Towers. The long-awaited report from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) conclusively rebuts those claims. Fire alone brought down the building, the report concludes, pointing to thermal expansion of key structural members as the culprit. The report also raises concerns that other large buildings might be more vulnerable to fire-induced structural failure than previously thought.
(Thelink to article's video located at the botton of original article.)
World Trade Center 7 stands amid the rubble of the recently collapsed
Twin Towers. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)
The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has released its long-awaited report on the collapse of World Trade 7 following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. "Our take-home message today is that the reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder told journalists at this morning's press conference in Gaithersburg, Md. "WTC 7 collapsed because of fires fueled by office furnishings. It did not collapse from explosives or from diesel fuel fires." Conspiracy theorists have long pointed to the collapse of the 47-story structure as key evidence that the U.S. government orchestrated or abetted the 9/11 attacks. No planes struck the building, and the commonly available views of the exterior didn't show significant damage.
Yet, at 5:20 pm, 7 hours after the collapse of the Twin Towers (WTC 1 and 2), WTC 7 rapidly fell in on itself. Since WTC 7 housed Secret Service and CIA offices, conspiracy theorists claimed that the building was destroyed in a controlled demolition in order to obliterate evidence of the U.S. government's complicity in the terrorist attacks. "It is impossible for a building to fall the way it fell without explosives being involved," stated actress and TV personality Rosie O'Donnell of ABC's The View in March 2007. "For the first time in history, steel was melted by fire. It is physically impossible," she said.
DIAGRAM: Thermal Expansion Causes WTC 7 Floor
Failures(Diagram by Loel Barr)
DIAGRAM: WTC 7 Support Columns and
Floor Framing(Diagram by NIST)
Today's report confirms that a fire was, indeed, the cause. "This is the first time that we are aware of, that a building taller than about 15 stories has collapsed primarily due to fires," Sunder told reporters at the press conference. "What we found was that uncontrolled building fires—similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings—caused an extraordinary event, the collapse of WTC7." The unprecedented nature of the event means that understanding the precise mechanism of the collapse is important not just to answer conspiracy theorists' questions, but to improve safety standards in the engineering of large buildings.
The final report describes how debris from the collapse of WTC 1 ignited fires on at least 10 floors of WTC 7 at the western half of the south face. Fires on Floors 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 burned out of control, because the water supply to the automatic sprinkler system had failed. The primary and backup water supply to the sprinkler systems for the lower floors relied on the city's water supply. Those water lines were damaged by the collapse of WTC 1 and 2. These uncontrolled fires in WTC 7 eventually spread to the northeast part of the building, where the collapse began.
After 7 hours of uncontrolled fires, a steel girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to one of the 81 columns supporting the building. Floor 13 collapsed, beginning a cascade of floor failures to Floor 5. Column 79, no longer supported by a girder, buckled, triggering a rapid succession of structural failures that moved from east to west. All 23 central columns, followed by the exterior columns, failed in what's known as a "progressive collapse"—that is, local damage that spreads from one structural element to another, eventually resulting in the collapse of the entire structure.
The report clarifies a number of widely debated issues concerning the collapse, particularly the role of the building's many diesel fuel tanks and the importance of structural damage from falling WTC 1 debris. Both of those factors have been cited by investigators as possibly contributing to the collapse; the 2006 Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts mentions both hypotheses. However, the final NIST report downplays both scenarios, concluding that the diesel fuel stored in tanks (and intended to power backup generators) did not burn long enough or hot enough to account for structural failures. And, while debris damage to WTC 7's southern exterior was considerable (and initiated the destructive fires), the collapse originated in the northeast portion of the building. In fact, the report concludes: "Even without the structural damage, WTC 7 would have collapsed from fires."
The report determines that the actual culprit in the collapse was the combustion of ordinary building furnishings: "These uncontrolled fires had characteristics similar to those that have occurred previously in tall buildings." If the sprinkler system in WTC 7 had been working, it is likely that "the fires in WTC 7 would have been controlled and the collapse prevented." The report also suggests that current engineering standards for coping with fire-induced thermal expansion need to be re-examined, particularly for buildings like WTC 7 that have long, unsupported floor spans. A key factor in the collapse, NIST concluded, was the failure of structural "connections that were designed to resist gravity loads, but not thermally induced lateral loads." According to Sunder: "For the first time we have shown that fire can induce a progressive collapse."
Spurred by conspiracy theorists' questions, investigators did look specifically at the possibility that explosives were involved. "Hypothetical blast events did not play a role in the collapse of WTC 7," the report states, adding that investigators "found no evidence whose explanation required invocation of a blast event." Moreover, the smallest charge capable of initiating column failure "would have resulted in a sound level of 130 dB [decibels] to 140 dB at a distance of at least half a mile." Witnesses did not report hearing such a loud noise, nor is one audible on recordings of the collapse.
"Since WTC 7 housed Secret Service and CIA offices, conspiracy theorists claimed that the building was destroyed in a controlled demolition in order to obliterate evidence of the U.S. government's complicity in the terrorist attacks." There were lots of things housed in WTC7; there has been some speculation. Given the nature of some of those evidences, what was there is not known to the public. Is it true that the SEC held the evidence of about the ENRON debacle, which is closely related in nature if not fact to the BCCI debacle and the bail-out. To debunk a theory by focusing on just one (fallacious) assumption doesn't work. No debunkers can get at this issue, just as no 9/11 Truthers can get at this issue because we do not have the facts, the subpoenas, the ability to compel testimony, and because the evidence fell under 47 floors of debris. The evidence of the hard drives in the Towers was recovered, and then quickly hidden by corporate buyout manipulation.
blast events Limiting the analysis of the evidence and the theory to "blast events' limits the inquiry, doesn't work consistently with what I know about the use of nano-thermites (arguably I am technically ignorant), and it certainly doesn't eliminate the possibilities of other material or agents in black development behind state secrecy under the aegis of the Pentagon or DARPA. We're stuck going around in circles without a formal, legal investigation which the State will not allow, facilitate, or pay any interest in. Ergo, since "the State" has been one of the primary agents preventing or delaying or side-tracking or "cooking" investigations, the State and its toadies cannot debunk so-called "conspiracy theorists" until they participate in a meaningful legal investigation.
Shyam Sunder of NIST says that there was no explosive sound loud enough to have been an explosion that could have taken out one of these columns. Here is a recording... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcRs1fv8i3I...player_embedded
“The NIST team found no evidence that explosives were involved in the collapse.”
Because they didn’t LOOK. (NIST admitted they NEVER TESTED FOR EXPLOSIVE RESIDUE. “NIST did not test for the presence of explosive residue and such tests would not necessarily have been conclusive.”)
“Our analysis shows that even the smallest explosive charge that was capable of bringing down the critical column in the building, had it occurred, we would have seen sound levels of 120 to 130 dbs, a half a mile away. That (could) have been an incredibly loud sound, and that sound was not picked up by any of the videos or the witnesses we have talked to.” Shyam Sunder.
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2008/08/22...aught-in-a-lie/
See also:
http://world911truth.org/open-letter-to-ni...y-richard-gage/
from which this is a critical excerpt:
1. The NIST November 2009 Final WTC 7 Investigative Report has many fatal flaws:
a. NIST was forced to acknowledge the free-fall collapse of Building 7 for 100 feet of its 6.5 second fall only after being grilled publicly by experts who are petition signers of AE911Truth. Yet you do not acknowledge the obvious implications of such free-fall collapse – that the structure had to have been removed – forcibly – by explosives. (Anyone knows that a building cannot collapse at the rate of a freely falling object while simultaneously crushing 40,000 tons of structural steel – because all of its gravitational potential energy has been converted to motion.)
b. The evidence of fires on the critical 12th floor is clearly falsified (video and photos document that the fires had burned out at least an hour before collapse – at the theorized area of collapse initiation)
c. NIST has eliminated the evidence of melted steel documented thoroughly in Appendix C of the former FEMA BPAT report: “rapid oxidation, intergranular melting, sulfidation… evaporation of steel”. The temperatures required for these processes are simply not possible with “normal office fires” which of course the NIST report cites as the cause of this building’s unprecedented catastrophic failure.
d. Your computer simulations of WTC 7 look nothing like the straight-down symmetrical collapse seen in all of the videos. The animations reveal the building top “folding in on itself” – then the simulation is actually stopped – only half way through – at the point at which the model appears to begin to behave like a natural process of collapse – asymmetrically – falling “over”. Why won’t NIST show us the whole 6.5 second collapse simulation??
We provide the accompanying packet for your convenience. It includes the new version of our DVD 9/11: Blueprint for Truth – The Architecture of Destruction, Companion Edition, with 10-, 30-, and 60-minute versions — and the two-hour public PowerPoint presentation. We have carefully documented the evidence in our multimedia presentation1 and DVD that exposes the fraud of NIST’s official explanation of events at the World Trade Center using simple, rational forensic inquiry and basic physics. I travel the country, and recently nine cities in Europe, speaking to building professionals and others to present the evidence and the facts of 9/11.
I urge you [Dr. Shyam Sunder, NIST], and your colleague, John Gross, to come clean with your conscience and with the American people who have placed their trust in their government and its National Institute for Standards and Technology. It is not too late to do the right thing.
— Richard Gage, AIA
The response to this presentation is stunning. A simple show of hands before and after consistently reveals that about 85% of audiences who believe the official hypothesis of “fire-weakened steel” come to accept the “explosive demolition with explosives” hypothesis after hearing the fact-based presentation. They support us in the need for a new, independent investigation with full subpoena power.
The official explanations of the destruction of the iconic Twin Towers and WTC Building 7 offered by FEMA and NIST defy the laws of physics. The existing prevalent physical evidence shows that the official explanations offered cannot be true. That such serious inconsistencies and unasked questions remain unaddressed is untenable. Every licensed architect and engineer agrees to uphold a code of ethics when obtaining licensure. Our A/Es are meeting their ethical obligation by challenging the false assumptions and lies underlying 9/11, without which there would be no “post-9/11 era”. Even the FBI’s assistant director for counterterrorism, Michael Heimbach, has found our work worthy, noting that it was “backed by thorough research and analysis.”
The entire letter can be downloaded here: http://198.171.14.141/page/documents/Lette..._%207_20_09.pdf .
Direct link
http://world911truth.org/open-letter-to-nist-by-richard-gage
####
Rosie O'Donnell has all the credibility of Popular Mechanics, and that Sheen fellow, and the rest of us. Some may be able to discuss and argue intelligently (and some may not), but none of them (or us) means a thing without a subpoena and the possibility of jail time, prosecution, imprisonment or other appropriate punishment. Since the State sees fit not to allow that, we have a totalitarian dictatorship. If the State does not submit to its own laws, we no longer have a republic or anything even close to a social contract.
I wonder what the rush was to sell all the twisted steel debris to the Chinese for scrap?
The intro fr, 9/11Truth.org @ http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20091016113410250
Friday, October 16 2009 - 9/11 A/V Galleries
David Ray Griffin Joins George Kenney on 'Electric Politics'
Within days of 9/11 happening I became convinced that something was very fishy about the whole thing. To be fair about it, I probably leaped to my conclusions somewhat prematurely, and I can well understand why many people have been skeptical regarding 9/11 skeptics. On the other hand, after eight years there's now literally a mountain of evidence that the official story cannot possibly be true.
But where to start in deconstructing our received narrative? David Ray Griffin may well have found its Achilles heel in his latest book, The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7: Why the Final Official Report About 9/11 Is Unscientific and False. If you read this book with an open mind I hope that at the very least you'd be willing to support a new, non-partisan, scientific investigation into what happened.
It's always great to talk with David -- this is the third time I've had him as a guest on the podcast -- and every time I learn a lot. It's also worth mentioning, for those who don't regularly follow 9/11 developments, that there's steady, on-going progress in assembling the evidence for some kind of inside job. Year after year, more and more pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. Perhaps certain aspects of what happened may never be known, but unlike, say, the Kennedy assassination, here, an argument built of irrefutable facts, that doesn't depend upon conjecture, stands up against anything the establishment can throw at it.
If you think that this podcast is worthwhile and interesting, maybe even important, please feel free to redistribute the link.
Thanks for listening!
George Kenney
www.electricpolitics.com
Listen here: http://www.electricpolitics.com/podcast/20...ding_seven.html
Imprimisque hominis est propria veri inquisitio atque investigatio.
The first duty of man is the seeking after and the investigation of truth.
From his web site's FAQ:
"I'm George Kenney. I was born in Algiers in 1956, during the battle of Algiers, to a US foreign service family, and grew up in the states, in Africa and in Europe. I spent way too much time in graduate school at the University of Chicago (MA in Economics) from which, following family tradition, I joined the foreign service myself. I was a tenured, mid-level career officer, serving as Yugoslav desk officer at the State Department headquarters in DC, when I resigned my commission in 1991 over US policy towards the Yugoslav conflict. Subsequently for a few years I was a consultant in residence at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Those were my salad days as a pundit. I had about 60 articles published in mainstream outlets, did hundreds of radio and tv interviews and talk shows, and traveled extensively through the US on speaking tours.
http://www.electricpolitics.com/podcast/20...ding_seven.html
Friday, October 16 2009 - 9/11 A/V Galleries
David Ray Griffin Joins George Kenney on 'Electric Politics'
Within days of 9/11 happening I became convinced that something was very fishy about the whole thing. To be fair about it, I probably leaped to my conclusions somewhat prematurely, and I can well understand why many people have been skeptical regarding 9/11 skeptics. On the other hand, after eight years there's now literally a mountain of evidence that the official story cannot possibly be true.
But where to start in deconstructing our received narrative? David Ray Griffin may well have found its Achilles heel in his latest book, The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7: Why the Final Official Report About 9/11 Is Unscientific and False. If you read this book with an open mind I hope that at the very least you'd be willing to support a new, non-partisan, scientific investigation into what happened.
It's always great to talk with David -- this is the third time I've had him as a guest on the podcast -- and every time I learn a lot. It's also worth mentioning, for those who don't regularly follow 9/11 developments, that there's steady, on-going progress in assembling the evidence for some kind of inside job. Year after year, more and more pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. Perhaps certain aspects of what happened may never be known, but unlike, say, the Kennedy assassination, here, an argument built of irrefutable facts, that doesn't depend upon conjecture, stands up against anything the establishment can throw at it.
If you think that this podcast is worthwhile and interesting, maybe even important, please feel free to redistribute the link.
Thanks for listening!
George Kenney
www.electricpolitics.com
Listen here: http://www.electricpolitics.com/podcast/20...ding_seven.html
QUOTE
The 9/11 truth movement keeps getting stronger. And the movement's assault on the establishment's preferred narrative, after eight years, has reduced it to a risible absurdity. An abundance of irrefutable scientific evidence exists. The problem remains, however, of getting people to turn their attention from special effects to reality. Many people, for many reasons, really want to believe that the wrong things are true. To help reawaken their critical faculties we have David Ray Griffin's latest book, The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7, which rips out the foundation, so to speak, of official dogma. I'm always delighted to talk with David and I always learn a lot. Total runtime an hour and eight minutes. Imprimisque hominis est propria veri inquisitio atque investigatio.
Imprimisque hominis est propria veri inquisitio atque investigatio.
The first duty of man is the seeking after and the investigation of truth.
From his web site's FAQ:
"I'm George Kenney. I was born in Algiers in 1956, during the battle of Algiers, to a US foreign service family, and grew up in the states, in Africa and in Europe. I spent way too much time in graduate school at the University of Chicago (MA in Economics) from which, following family tradition, I joined the foreign service myself. I was a tenured, mid-level career officer, serving as Yugoslav desk officer at the State Department headquarters in DC, when I resigned my commission in 1991 over US policy towards the Yugoslav conflict. Subsequently for a few years I was a consultant in residence at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Those were my salad days as a pundit. I had about 60 articles published in mainstream outlets, did hundreds of radio and tv interviews and talk shows, and traveled extensively through the US on speaking tours.
http://www.electricpolitics.com/podcast/20...ding_seven.html
I noticed something interesting yesterday during the hype for the balloon that has importance here
just like my noticing how Sully the hero pilot showed how what he did made 9-11 impossible to have gone down the way the official story did
during it, I was watching CNN
and after a while, they brought in experts in Physics, and did the numbers
numbers never lie
and they said it was just about impossible for that balloon to have taken off and gone the speed it did, and altitude it climbed to, and carry a 50pound
boy in it.
And though it was a long time til the balloon landed, people started to feel no kid was aboard.
Where were those experts right off on 9-11 on the air
the ones to say
THIS IS BULLCRAP
those could not have fallen down
sorry taz, you lose, why you want to uphold a lying official story I don't know
just like my noticing how Sully the hero pilot showed how what he did made 9-11 impossible to have gone down the way the official story did
during it, I was watching CNN
and after a while, they brought in experts in Physics, and did the numbers
numbers never lie
and they said it was just about impossible for that balloon to have taken off and gone the speed it did, and altitude it climbed to, and carry a 50pound
boy in it.
And though it was a long time til the balloon landed, people started to feel no kid was aboard.
Where were those experts right off on 9-11 on the air
the ones to say
THIS IS BULLCRAP
those could not have fallen down
sorry taz, you lose, why you want to uphold a lying official story I don't know
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Oct 15 2009, 05:10 PM)
I wonder what the rush was to sell all the twisted steel debris to the Chinese for scrap?
An effort to perpetuate the US's growing presence in the global community as a third world country where we export more raw materials than we do finished products?
QUOTE(Magmak1 @ Oct 16 2009, 05:26 PM)
The intro fr, 9/11Truth.org @ http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20091016113410250
Friday, October 16 2009 - 9/11 A/V Galleries
David Ray Griffin Joins George Kenney on 'Electric Politics'
Within days of 9/11 happening I became convinced that something was very fishy about the whole thing. To be fair about it, I probably leaped to my conclusions somewhat prematurely, and I can well understand why many people have been skeptical regarding 9/11 skeptics. On the other hand, after eight years there's now literally a mountain of evidence that the official story cannot possibly be true.
But where to start in deconstructing our received narrative? David Ray Griffin may well have found its Achilles heel in his latest book, The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7: Why the Final Official Report About 9/11 Is Unscientific and False. If you read this book with an open mind I hope that at the very least you'd be willing to support a new, non-partisan, scientific investigation into what happened.
It's always great to talk with David -- this is the third time I've had him as a guest on the podcast -- and every time I learn a lot. It's also worth mentioning, for those who don't regularly follow 9/11 developments, that there's steady, on-going progress in assembling the evidence for some kind of inside job. Year after year, more and more pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. Perhaps certain aspects of what happened may never be known, but unlike, say, the Kennedy assassination, here, an argument built of irrefutable facts, that doesn't depend upon conjecture, stands up against anything the establishment can throw at it.
If you think that this podcast is worthwhile and interesting, maybe even important, please feel free to redistribute the link.
Thanks for listening!
George Kenney
www.electricpolitics.com
Listen here: http://www.electricpolitics.com/podcast/20...ding_seven.html
Imprimisque hominis est propria veri inquisitio atque investigatio.
The first duty of man is the seeking after and the investigation of truth.
From his web site's FAQ:
"I'm George Kenney. I was born in Algiers in 1956, during the battle of Algiers, to a US foreign service family, and grew up in the states, in Africa and in Europe. I spent way too much time in graduate school at the University of Chicago (MA in Economics) from which, following family tradition, I joined the foreign service myself. I was a tenured, mid-level career officer, serving as Yugoslav desk officer at the State Department headquarters in DC, when I resigned my commission in 1991 over US policy towards the Yugoslav conflict. Subsequently for a few years I was a consultant in residence at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Those were my salad days as a pundit. I had about 60 articles published in mainstream outlets, did hundreds of radio and tv interviews and talk shows, and traveled extensively through the US on speaking tours.
http://www.electricpolitics.com/podcast/20...ding_seven.html
Friday, October 16 2009 - 9/11 A/V Galleries
David Ray Griffin Joins George Kenney on 'Electric Politics'
Within days of 9/11 happening I became convinced that something was very fishy about the whole thing. To be fair about it, I probably leaped to my conclusions somewhat prematurely, and I can well understand why many people have been skeptical regarding 9/11 skeptics. On the other hand, after eight years there's now literally a mountain of evidence that the official story cannot possibly be true.
But where to start in deconstructing our received narrative? David Ray Griffin may well have found its Achilles heel in his latest book, The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7: Why the Final Official Report About 9/11 Is Unscientific and False. If you read this book with an open mind I hope that at the very least you'd be willing to support a new, non-partisan, scientific investigation into what happened.
It's always great to talk with David -- this is the third time I've had him as a guest on the podcast -- and every time I learn a lot. It's also worth mentioning, for those who don't regularly follow 9/11 developments, that there's steady, on-going progress in assembling the evidence for some kind of inside job. Year after year, more and more pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. Perhaps certain aspects of what happened may never be known, but unlike, say, the Kennedy assassination, here, an argument built of irrefutable facts, that doesn't depend upon conjecture, stands up against anything the establishment can throw at it.
If you think that this podcast is worthwhile and interesting, maybe even important, please feel free to redistribute the link.
Thanks for listening!
George Kenney
www.electricpolitics.com
Listen here: http://www.electricpolitics.com/podcast/20...ding_seven.html
QUOTE
The 9/11 truth movement keeps getting stronger. And the movement's assault on the establishment's preferred narrative, after eight years, has reduced it to a risible absurdity. An abundance of irrefutable scientific evidence exists. The problem remains, however, of getting people to turn their attention from special effects to reality. Many people, for many reasons, really want to believe that the wrong things are true. To help reawaken their critical faculties we have David Ray Griffin's latest book, The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7, which rips out the foundation, so to speak, of official dogma. I'm always delighted to talk with David and I always learn a lot. Total runtime an hour and eight minutes. Imprimisque hominis est propria veri inquisitio atque investigatio.
Imprimisque hominis est propria veri inquisitio atque investigatio.
The first duty of man is the seeking after and the investigation of truth.
From his web site's FAQ:
"I'm George Kenney. I was born in Algiers in 1956, during the battle of Algiers, to a US foreign service family, and grew up in the states, in Africa and in Europe. I spent way too much time in graduate school at the University of Chicago (MA in Economics) from which, following family tradition, I joined the foreign service myself. I was a tenured, mid-level career officer, serving as Yugoslav desk officer at the State Department headquarters in DC, when I resigned my commission in 1991 over US policy towards the Yugoslav conflict. Subsequently for a few years I was a consultant in residence at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Those were my salad days as a pundit. I had about 60 articles published in mainstream outlets, did hundreds of radio and tv interviews and talk shows, and traveled extensively through the US on speaking tours.
http://www.electricpolitics.com/podcast/20...ding_seven.html
Magmak1...
The elephant in the room is -- "a new, non-partisan, scientific investigation into what happened"
BY WHO!!!!!
This is no longer a partisan issue....the Democrats are in charge....if they wanted an investigation they could have one...
And Magmak1 -- you yourself have posed the issue that Obama or his Administraiton at least knows or should know the truth at this point if the truth is the conspiracy theory that you imagine involving the Bush Administration...etc.
So, if the Dems and the Repugs know the truth...and are not saying...who do you want to do this new investigation?
Who is going to be credible?
The truth is as I have repeatedly said...is that under the truthers scenario...no one in government can be trusted to do such a review...
So, if only persons in government have the security clearances and no one can be trusted...a complete and accurate and honest review -- from the truther perspective can NEVER be accomplished...
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Oct 15 2009, 01:08 PM)
taz- you actually already admitted the real official story is fake in one of your many posts
so you are a "truther" in effect too
why do you keep trying to debunk the truth (that you already have said the official story is not correct).
If one part of the official story is bogus, then it all is.
house of cards, one falls, they all do.
and the above debunking the truthers was debunked on six other threads here.
so you are a "truther" in effect too
why do you keep trying to debunk the truth (that you already have said the official story is not correct).
If one part of the official story is bogus, then it all is.
house of cards, one falls, they all do.
and the above debunking the truthers was debunked on six other threads here.
Nice try Graham...
I believe most of the official story...where I differ is that the Bush Administration was made to seem as competent as they were...I think they were quite incompetent...and the 9/11 Commission members know that...and this is the reason why they have issued their statements questioning the official version...
But to release a report detailing how incompetent the Bush Adminsitration was...was not something that the Administration would ever sign off on...so that is why the report had to be forward looking more than anything...
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