When you add in job loss in 2008 and 2009 you know the numbers are higher.......................!

(AP) - State-by-state breakdown of the percentage of uninsured residents in 2008, according to Census figures released this week.

Texas, 24.1 percent

New Mexico, 21.4 percent
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Nevada, 21.3 percent

Florida, 20.8 percent

Alaska, 20.1 percent

Oklahoma, 19.5 percent

Georgia, 18.8 percent

Arizona, 18.7 percent

Montana, 18.5 percent

Arkansas, 18 percent

Mississippi, 17.9 percent

Idaho, 17.8 percent

Louisiana, 17.8 percent

California, 17.8 percent

South Carolina, 17.4 percent

Colorado, 17.2 percent

Oregon, 16.4 percent

North Carolina, 15.9 percent

West Virginia, 15.8 percent

Utah, 15.5 percent

Kentucky, 14.1 percent

Alabama, 14 percent

Wyoming, 13.9 percent

Indiana, 13.9 percent

Tennessee, 13.6 percent

Washington, 13.1 percent

Missouri, 13 percent

Illinois, 12.8 percent

New Jersey, 12.4 percent

Kansas, 12.2 percent

Virginia, 12.0 percent

Ohio, 11.8 percent

New York, 11.8 percent

South Dakota, 11.7 percent

Michigan, 11.5 percent

Nebraska, 11.1 percent

Maryland, 11.1 percent

Maine, 10.9 percent

New Hampshire, 10.8 percent

North Dakota, 10.5 percent

Rhode Island, 10.5 percent

Delaware, 10.3 percent

Pennsylvania, 9.4 percent

Wisconsin, 9.1 percent

Vermont, 9.1 percent

Iowa, 9.1 percent

Connecticut, 9 percent

Minnesota, 8.7 percent

Hawaii, 6.7 percent

Massachusetts, 4.1 percent

___

Source: American Community Survey

AND TO COUNTER THE SCARE TACTICS ...

"Census: Region better covered - Having stable employers means relatively more people have health insurance plans"

By KENNETH C. CROWE II, Staff writer, Albany, New York Times Union

First published in print: Wednesday, September 23, 2009

ALBANY -- The Capital Region has a smaller percentage of people without health insurance than the nation as a whole, according to data released Tuesday by the U.S. Census Bureau.

While 15.1 percent of the country's population lacks health insurance, the region's four core counties ranged from a low of 7.4 percent in Albany without coverage to a high of 10.6 percent in Schenectady.

"We do tend to have larger, more stable employers in the region."

"Our big employers, government, education and health care, tend to have insurance,'' said Timothy J. Hoff, a professor of health policy management at the University at Albany School of Public Health.

Compared to most of the U.S., Hoff said, "The area is more affluent and college-educated."

"These are related to higher levels of health insurance.''

The Capital Region had fewer uninsured people than any of the four regions in which the Census Bureau divides the country.

The Northeast and Midwest had 11.6 percent without insurance.

The West had 17.4 percent without insurance, while the South was the highest at 18.2 percent.

The Capital Region's two congressional districts -- the 20th represented by Rep. Scott Murphy, D-Glens Falls, and the 21st represented by Rep. Paul Tonko, D-Amsterdam -- also have a lower rate of uninsured people than the nation.

The more rural 20th district has 10.4 percent without coverage, while the 21st district, which includes the cities of Albany, Schenectady, Troy and Amsterdam in the region's urban core, has 8.7 percent lacking health insurance.

The health insurance coverage data was collected as part of the Census' 2008 American Community Survey.

The information was released as the nation debates various legislative proposals to provide health insurance coverage for all Americans.

Michael Moran, a spokesman for the Business Council of New York State, said, "New York has done a much better job of covering people broadly."

"It shows a commitment on the employers' part to cover their employees.''

Moran said the state's business community wants to make sure that national health coverage reforms don't result in higher costs for employers.

Union membership also is a component of the higher portion of the population having health insurance. .

"We are the most organized state in the country," said Mario Cilento, a spokesman for the NYS AFL-CIO, who is based in New York City.

"With most collective bargaining agreements, you have health insurance.''

Health insurance

New York state and the Capital Region have a lower percentage of people without health insurance than the United States as a whole.

Location %Uninsured

U.S. 15.1

New York 11.8

County

Albany 7.4

Rensselaer 8.3

Saratoga 8.3

Schenectady 10.6

Congressional District

20th 10.4

21st 8.7

Source: U.S. Census Bureau 2008 American Community Survey

Speaking as one of the 18.8 percent in GA - It sure makes me appreciate Massachusetts State health insurance.

And I in my turn have to wonder how many of those people without health insurance are veterans who are not supposed to need health insurance because the United States government was supposed to provide their healthcare for them through the VA healthcare system ....

How come we are deprived of that statistic by the Obama government?

What are they trying to hide here?

And why are we NOT hearing anything at all out of Obama about creating a healthy environment for people in America pursuant to the National Environmental Policy Act, so that people won't get sick in the first place?

Why is Obama silent on that?

And so ...

You could always move there, heart ....

All you have to be able to do is to pay the taxes ....

And so ...

Here in New York state, everybody who pays state income tax pays the state for healthcare by supporting the New York State Department of Health with our tax dollars ...

For that money, the New York State Department of Health is supposed to insure that public health services are available to ALL citizens in the state in an efficient and effective manner ....

BUT THEY DON'T!

And those of us who live in the counties of New York state with county health departments pay an additional tax to the county for healthcare through our property taxes, which support the county health department, which is supposed to insure that public health services are available to ALL citizens in the county in an efficient and effective manner ....

BUT THEY DON'T, EITHER ....

And in both cases, the reason why is POLITICS ....

POLITICS from the same two political parties who control things on the national level ....

And now those same people who deny us healthcare at the state level where it is supposed to be available are going to charge us for health insurance, which is going to stuff a TRILLION dollars down their crony's pockets ....

And so ...

When plans were laid out for collecting the 2008 census data, Obama wasn't President.

Which makes no difference at all, rla ....

Doesn't the census already separate out veterans from non-veterans?

So it is just a matter of collating ....

Why wasn't that done?

And so ...

I don't know...Maybe someone out there will help us out with question...

And how many of those persons DO NOT use the American healthcare system as a matter of choice?

Up here, the best place to get sick or to catch some exotic disease that nothing can cure is IN a hospital ....

Hospitals are places where people go to die ....

Or get the wrong parts cut off, at your expense, especially as Obama wants to eliminate being able to sue for malpractice ....

And so ...

it is illegal to drive without insurance

if caught, you go to jail or pay a heavy fine

Insurance is so expensive, because of the cost of LEGAL CITIZENS who are freakin' cheapskates and don't get insurance
YES-THE ONES WHO WORK AND CAN AFFORD IT, DON'T GET INSURANCE

Make it mandatory

TAX TAX TAX those people

because everyone already is paying MORE than those cheap lazy people with comfy jobs with NO insurance

Why should I pay $2750 when others pay zero?

it should be one price fits all people
If family has 2- double the one price
3-triple
4- four times it
5, etc.

when you can work, you gotta get it
when you can't, then you still get the provisions without having to pay

pay it forward

and make all illegals, legal

So, if you want the privilege of driving you insure to protect others. I understand that.

Are you suggesting that if you live you have to pay for health insurance to protect others?
From what? You causing them property or personal damage? Are you that dangerous or contagious?

The analogy is ridiculous, or perhaps ludicrious is more exact.

I'm inclined to agree with you on this, IH. I think universal health care for all citizens and authorized guest
should be paid for out of the general fund, derived from general taxes, which should be on a progressive scale. I think the actual care should be by professionals on a fee for service bases.

Health Insurance Companies are the Money Changers in the Temple. We should emulate Christ's actions in this.

Because you apparently are a glutton for punishment, graham ...

And are obviously a SUCKER for some SCAM ARTIST who is living large and in charge off of you, and is very happy to have you as a paying client ...

I bet he even sends you a Christmas card, ain't it?...

And so ...

IS IT?

yes it is

you must have car insurance or you cannot drive

same as a driver's liscence

if you get caught, you go to jail or something

I lived in Wyoming, graham and as I recall, vehicle insurance was optional out there ...

As far as the healthcare industry, I think Obama ought to back off and leave it alone. He will hang himself with the reforms and possibly lose the next election. Today I heard the plan will allow people to "choose their own doctor." What people don't consider is that doctors will choose not to participate with the plan en masse. We're already sick of the whole darn mess. Tort reform is the main thing to fix healthcare, IMHO. But all those attorneys running the government aren't much interested in tort reform.

One thing I've noticed is that no matter who they're screwing the attorneys always make $. Whether they lose or not. I fill out disability forms for free (because the government won't let me charge for the time it takes me to fill the forms out ) and then the attorneys collect 30% of the patients disability for the rest of their life. Everybody thinks doctors are rich. I wish America would get a clue regarding that. Try the verge of bankruptcy every day. Intense pressure to see more patients in less time coupled with terror of being sued. What makes America think doctors are going to hang out and continue working under conditions where the government invades the doctor-patient relationship further than it already has.

I believe the "healthcare for all" option is going to result in universal health insurance but a serious dearth of providers. You won't be able to "chose your doctor" because your doctor is going to quit. Next time you see your doctor take a look at them very closely. Especially in the eyes. You will see an exhausted, broken-down shadow of a human being. If this plan sticks it to us, I'm quitting. I'm not going to kill myself with the government screwing the medical professionals.

You should know that medicaid/medicare no longer pay for any infections or falls sustained while a patient is hospitalized. The hospitals are going to have to eat the price. And it's already apparent in patient care. All the hospital wants to do is shove people out the door as soon as they possibly can. They will financially suffer even more than they do now.

I know my opinions are not "mainstream" but it's wise for those obsessed with healthcare reform to think about who it is who is going to care for them when they're sick. My guess is 30% of doctors will just quit. Also they're making us go to computerized records. But they don't pay for the cost of computerizing our practices. I met with one group who's fee was more than $60,000 to computerize patient records. Who in their right mind is going to continue the suckiest job in America?

I used to think being a doctor is a priveledge and an obligation to serve. A calling. Now I think it's indentured servitude, endless paperwork and regulations, exhaustion. You can literally feel the years being sucked off your life each day. And for what? If I'm going to practice medicine for free I will do so in some other country. Even better, I'll get a job as a waitress somewhere close to the beach. At least then I'd actually get a paycheck.

Not to toot my own horn unattractively but I think I'm one of the best doctors in my specialty in my area. I provide awesome care. The absolute best I am able to provide. And there are very few people in my demographic trained to my level. Your taxes helped educate me and I owe over $250,000 back to the government for my education. And I'm going to end up a waitress.

Better start considering who is going to provide this universal care. I am now advising people NOT to go into a medical career. It eats your soul.

Oh, and you wouldn't believe all the rules for paperwork we have to document to pass our yearly medicaid/medicare audits. There's nothing to compare with the knot in your gut and the shortness of breath that accompany a pending audit.

WOW!

Gabrielle, I am almost speechless after reading that post ...

You are the people we never seem to hear from regarding healthcare here in America ....

And you are exactly who we do need to hear from ...

I recall a phone call I received from a medical doctor up here way back in 1988 when I was still an associate public health engineer up here responsible for enforcing the NYS Public Health Law in a county up here ....

The doctor was quite concerned because he was treating people with lung disorders that he knew to be silicosis ...

He spoke to me about this and attributed it to people breathing fugitive dust emissions from the mines we have up here, although these were people living around the mines, not working in them ...

He asked me as a public health professional what I was going to do about it ....

I told him nothing ....

There was political pressure on me to keep this all HUSHED UP, and I was not going to be in my job much longer because I was refusing to be corrupt ...

The essence of the conversation between us had to do with FUTILITY ...

I WOULD NOT be allowed to enforce the law, and he COULD NOT properly treat people if he could not remove the cause of what was afflicting them ....

All he could do was to treat symptons, not cure people, if my end of the system was not functioning ...

I always wonder what happened to that doctor ....

Maybe he said screw it and went to work for McDonald's where the hours were better ....

And so ...

I respect what you are saying Gabrielle. "But"... (That always comes after that doesn't it?). With all due respect I'd say that those doctors who would quit "should". I know we don't live in the world of "should" or many things would be different.

Doctors "should" be healers and we "should" allow them to be healers not defensive lawyers and paper jockeys. We "should" have "best practices" that make sense and those practices if followed "should" protect doctors from lawsuits in the civil courts.

The patient who is harmed by mal-practice "should" be taken care of by the government without a lawsuit. And the offending doctor "should" be barred from practicing medicine if his or her mistake was found to be egregious and inexcusable in a criminal court. Health Insurance Companies "should" be barred from making a profit on primary care. It "should" be illegal.

Everyone "should" be covered - period. And it "should" at the very least (if not totally paid for by our taxes) be easily affordable.

Just my opinion.

I would like to hear what you think "should" be done Gabrielle.

Up here where I am, if you drive down the road in the morning, you might notice a man of indeterminate age walking alongside the road in an orange jacket wearing sunglasses, and he will be carrying a trash sack that he puts trash in that he picks up by the side of the road ....

He used to be the head of child oncology at the big hospital down in the city near me ....

One day, he quit ....

He walked away ....

He couldn't take any longer being confronted with an endless stream of children with cancer that was caused by environmental conditions that he had no control over, and which the "state" allowed to continue on unabated ....

As a doctor he should have been reporting this information to the state health department and they should have been investigating ....

BUT ....

Polluters in NYS have a lot of political clout, so the NYS Health Department is just a paper tiger when it comes to environmental health protection in NYS ....

SOOOO ...

A never ending stream of children have cancer, which is good for the doctoring bidness, if you are into doctoring for the money ....

And yes, these children likely were covered by insurance or they could not have gotten into that hospital ....

But what did insurance do for them?

NOTHING ....

Insurance DID NOT keep them from getting cancer, and it did not save their lives ....

DESPITE THE INSURANCE, WHICH KEPT THE HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATORS IN COIN, THE CHILDREN DIED ....

So the doctor quit ....

Now he picks trash from the side of ther road, because he feels that that is doing something more positive for the world than being a doctor earning your living off of watching children die of cancer .....

And so ...

what a strawman

insurance doesn't cure you

it enables you to get cured IF there is a cure for whatever ails you

I've had my own up close and personal experience with, "Burnout." I have know personally, five individuals who
succombed to it to the extent of committing susicide. Instead of staying put and pulling dead bodies out of the
river, we have to keep moving upstream to where they are being thrown in the river. A system's perspective is
required. It is not a matter of this OR that--it is this and that and the other...

I have nothing ailing me that insurance can cure or provide any cures for, graham ....

So I don't need insurance, and I'll be damed if Obama is going to jam it down my throat, most especially as I am a service-connected disabled veteran who is supposed to be already entitled to healthcare at a VA facility without the need for insurance ....

And so ...

I used to live there, and I LOVED THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM! I didn't mind paying for it through taxes. What I mind is paying taxes and then never seeing any benefit in my day to day life from those taxes. In MA, I did see that benefit, even in CA I saw that benefit, but never here in GA...I don't know if you see any of that in Upstate, and I only lived on Long Island for a little while so I can't really answer that one.

The only reason I don't live there now is because I have a son in his last year of high school. I am "outta here" after that, my job being temporarily over (until they think there coming back home, since I will then be someplace they simply can't come.....RV, boat or outta the country )

There are only three places I know where one can live a normal life without a car, San Francisco and the East Bay, Boston and New York City. We have no buses, trains, subways or ferries anyplace else, so the "privilege" of driving is a bit of a "requirement" where I live anyway.

However, it makes perfect sense to me that one should have car insurance to cover oneself and automobile, it makes no sense to me that I have to buy car insurance to cover another person's vehicle. Why can't I buy insurance to protect my car and what's in it? Let everyone else do the same?

I realize though, that my policy, no matter how you divy it up, pays for those who do not have insurance. In Georgia, that would be 1 out of 5 drivers. So, those who have insurance ALREADY pay for those that do not.

Likewise,I'm not suggesting that you pay for healthcare insurance to pay for others, I'm saying you already do, only it costs a lot more when you are paying for others to go to the emergency room when they are very sick, as opposed to going to the local doc or PA when they are still likely to live.

I guess I'm just that dangerous if I had to pick.

AMEN!

AMEN!

But if someone wants to buy a health insurance policy to cover everything that a public option wouldn't cover (a rider, like medicare gap insurance, I would let them do that)

Doctor's take medicare and they haven't stopped that.

But how many hours do you spend, or have to pay for someone to spend, filling out different insurance forms and requirements for different insurance companies? Why couldn't we just have one standardized form that was online so that task would cost less and the medical coding tricks wouldn't work anymore?

Why don't they pay you to fill out disability forms? They should.

Reasonable tort reform should indeed be passed, I agree with that.

And, you really can't "choose" your own doctor now. The HMO's and PPO's pick them for you.

How often, does the insurance company tell you, as a doctor, that your patient's claim has been denied and you have to provide more information or you have to rig the coding in order to go ahead with a certain procedure?

Having served with many good doctors in the military I believe that they were a lot happier working for the VA than they were working for the HMO's and PPO's and the government and the states....that makes everything worse. If you know the regs and you know the procedures and they don't change depending on the patients insurance company I think it will help make it a privilege and a service once again.

I'm just not sure how this works in WV (that's where you are correct?), but I think there are good models for this, we just have to pick one that has the best outcomes for all those involved and quit letting our doctors have their souls sucked out.

Also, we need to have more medical colleges because we need more doctors but no one is getting accepted to medical school because we have so few seats.

But HEY GABBY! I'm thrilled to see you here

Georgia is a great state to be from--a long way from...Actually Ar. is very similar in many ways--Hot Springs is pretty unique--you would like it...

I am, as are neurologists, seeing what we suspect to be bovine spongiform encephalitis - now in two patients I've seen. Not confirmed - because we don't DO tests for this - but highly suspected. Both men in their 50's with RAPIDLY progressive dementia leading to death within one year. I suspect others are seeing this as well. But who can do anything about it? Politically it doesn't exist because it will kill the beef industry in the US causing more financial duress during the second depression in our history.

I understand the oncologist leaving the medical profession. You would be surprised at how many physicians I know who are completely burned out. The patients we care for give us a reason to keep going. But the paperwork and constant haggling with insurance companies, etc. is drowning us. I believe this will only get worse with Obamacare.

Doctor's take medicare and they haven't stopped that.

But how many hours do you spend, or have to pay for someone to spend, filling out different insurance forms and requirements for different insurance companies? Why couldn't we just have one standardized form that was online so that task would cost less and the medical coding tricks wouldn't work anymore?

Why don't they pay you to fill out disability forms? They should.

Reasonable tort reform should indeed be passed, I agree with that.

And, you really can't "choose" your own doctor now. The HMO's and PPO's pick them for you.

How often, does the insurance company tell you, as a doctor, that your patient's claim has been denied and you have to provide more information or you have to rig the coding in order to go ahead with a certain procedure?

Having served with many good doctors in the military I believe that they were a lot happier working for the VA than they were working for the HMO's and PPO's and the government and the states....that makes everything worse. If you know the regs and you know the procedures and they don't change depending on the patients insurance company I think it will help make it a privilege and a service once again.

I'm just not sure how this works in WV (that's where you are correct?), but I think there are good models for this, we just have to pick one that has the best outcomes for all those involved and quit letting our doctors have their souls sucked out.

Also, we need to have more medical colleges because we need more doctors but no one is getting accepted to medical school because we have so few seats.

But HEY GABBY! I'm thrilled to see you here
[/quote]

It's good to see you, too, Heart! I have been thinking about working for the VA. I've worked for the VA before and their computerized medical records system is amazing! Plus I wouldn't have to worry about administrative concerns. Also you don't have to beg insurance companies to pay for the medications. All you do is fill out a formulary form which is either accepted or denied depending on how well you make your case. Also, I really enjoy working with veterans. I click well with them excepting the rare patient. Plus I greatly respect their service to our country. The VA needs good psychiatrists, too. Ones who won't go on a shooting rampage. I wonder what happened to that guy. Geez.

we are in a recovery from a recession (one that is rapidly becoming a boon period in the next 6 months, some areas of the country that started going down early are the first ones coming back
those that started bad later, makes sense they will come back later

there is NO depression

if there would have been real numbers between 2001-8 instead of phony the numbers now wouldn't seem out of place

raw numbers actually

May they get rid of all private insurance some day and we can have a great system like France and Canada have.
Where when you are well, you pay into it
when you are not, you can receive the best care (only USA lies about their system make it seem bad).

More people are saved and lower cost from cserious illness in France by far, then in the crappy USA pot luck

and doctors in France are better and have much less stress

Take out profit from the equation and the world is better off. Money kills and should be no consideration to health care

Why is it that Stevie Jobs is the only one alive with what he has, when most people are dead 3 or 4 months later? Who's blood is he sucking on?
Who literally has died to keep the worlds wealthiest man alive? $$$$$ Vampire he is.

The idea of "best practices" sounds Orwellian to me. The government will dictate what we can and cannot do - otherwise we will be shunned by the insurance companies. Bad outcomes are often the result of negligence, "But" I see this negligence more as a form of overwhelming pressure to see more patients in fewer time, thus removing our ability to provide truly good quality care for our patients. I refuse to provide this kind of shoddy care. Financially I pay a price for this decision. Had one administrator of a large group who was vigorously trying to recruit me for their practice tell me I was a "dinosour" when I refused his offer. Their group sees each patient for a maximum of 5 minutes. I was informed I would be expected to work at this pace or my pay would be docked. I replied, "Well, I guess I'll just die out with the other dinosaurs, then." I came home that night and listened to "I Did It My Way" by Sinatra about 15 times.

which is why a gov't run health care is indeed close to perfect like it is in France and Canada

only the US insurance and health industry who lie says it isn't

beamer don't want death lists
well, we have that 50% of the time here already
they just don't call it that

I agree 100% with TROU

they should get rid of lawyers from the equation

no lawyers, no malpractice courts
have the gov't toss out any doctor who has too many incidents

Get rid of the pressure
look at the pressure the kind gentle soul in Texas was put under. Pressure is not good for people. Makes them snap.

these days when I listen to Sinatra, I crank up the volume on my old victrola and sing along with Frankie to
My kinda town, chicago is, My kinda town
May the president always come from the great city of Chicago at least in 2012 2016 2020 2024 2028 2032 2036 2040
Barack Michelle Sasha Malia Obamaforever and a day
I want the Obama to care forever. (and using the words together Obamacare is a derogatory slur that Obama haters tend to say more of those
elrushbo code words)

may the winds of Chicago the windy city, always be at Barack's back.

Maybe where you come from we've been in a recession, but where I come from we're in a Major Depression. What is the academic definition of a depression, Graham? IMHO "recession" is code for "nobody panic about the increasing unemployment rates and decline in the dollar because that will only make the situation worse." When I drive down the road I've never seen so many "For Sale" signs on people's homes. Our state has plummeted into a "pill economy." In many counties I wonder if there is anybody who is not addicted to oxycontin or lortabs (for non-legitimate pain). Selling drugs are the only good paying "jobs" available. Also, everybody is on social security disability here. Generations of people who's entire goal in life is to get on disability because that's what their parents did and that's how they make a living. Got a call from a lady with a 3 year old who is already on social security disability for ADHD. What's wrong with that picture?

your area is historically less well off to start with.
Here, this area is actually one that started going down later in the game, so it will be a while before, but there are other areas in the country
that are now picking up (and other places in the world where it is better.)

Livy has stated it is not bad up by him (about 3 hours north of me) and hasn't been

as for ADHD, I think this is the #1 most overrated and overprescribed thing there is.Kids should be kids
Not given drugs that turn them into zombies.
Children lose their personality on it, not the other way around

As for jobs-(not steve)
This is 2009. Alot of jobs are obsolete, and an example I use is in Manhattan, yes, there are empty storefronts on 14th street, one after another.
However, not one store that has closed was needed, as people have MORE places to obtain what was in those stores now than before.
America has been very slow to re-train people.

If the congress would have passed some of the other things quicker (like Obama's wanted health plan), maybe he can get to the jobs programs he
wanted.
Having the cross country rail system back up, or fixing bridges and roads would be one way

(of course Obamahaters would say he is spendingtoo much money).

FDR had a better congress to get things passed. It could be as good as that again (assuming one thinks FDR was good)

Someone was telling me today that according to the House version of healthcare reform, people deemed obese will have to pay higher health insurance rates, kind of like people with bad driving records who will be in the assigned risk pool for car insurance .....

graham will probably see his rates sky-rocket ....

My understanding of the proposed legislation is that preexisting conditions can not effect rates or
acceptance for coverage...there are, however, plenty of real weaknesses in the legislation to criticize...

We have a problem in Hot Springs, Ar. Being a tourist town and a popular retirement center, we have
a larger than typical portion of elderly people. We have lost 7 doctors this year because they moved to locations where they wouldn't have such a high proportion of Medicare patients who pay less than
people on for profit insurance...

Talk about dysfunctional systems, alright, rla ...

When healthcare is directly related to money, only those with money can have good health ....

Everybody else is left to fend for themselves ....

And OBAMACARE is not going to cure any of that, so far as I can see ....

And so ...

putting the two words together is a derogatory slur on Obama
only haters call it that

as for your fatjoke above livy, maybe heavy people would pay more, however, it would end up being LESS than I pay now

there is NO justification for say indianhead and beamer to pay $300 a month and me to pay $2750 and none of my price has to do with preexisting anything at all

how about we take the $300 beamer pays add it to my pay and divide by two

so we each pay $1525 a month...now that would be equitable.

YUP...


http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...13/2126303.aspx

Posted: Friday, November 13, 2009 9:03 AM by Mark Murray

2010: HEALTH CARE HURTING DEMS?
Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

"The healthcare battle appears to be helping Republicans running for the Senate," The Hill notes. "Two Quinnipiac polls released
Thursday show the leading GOP candidates in Connecticut and Ohio growing their leads. Former Rep. Rob Simmons (R-Conn.)
leads Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.), 49-38, and former Rep. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) has opened his first leads over two potential
Democratic opponents."
...

HOW COULD THIS BE?

Well, lets have one of those personal stories health care supporters love so much...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...3169603118.html
Thursday, November 12, 2009 As of 7:14 PM EST

OPINION
NOVEMBER 12, 2009, 7:14 P.M. ET
What Health Reform Will Do to My Insurance
Congress wants the nation to adopt the same rules that have made coverage expensive in New York.


By ANDREW R. HEINZE
I'm a registered Democrat living in New York City, and I buy my own health insurance. But now, having seen the health-care
reform bill that passed the House, I'm preparing for life without health insurance. And unless I'm the only person covered under
the Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield "Tradition Plus" plan, a lot of other people will end up just like me, uninsured.

I will gain one thing, though—an annual fine for losing my insurance. The exact amount of that fine isn't clear yet, but so far it looks
like I'll be paying about the same amount—$2,000 a year—for having no insurance as I do now for having it.

Let's get specific. What is the "Tradition Plus" plan that I've purchased each year since moving to New York in 2006? It's a hospitalization plan.
If an accident or illness puts me in the hospital, all my hospital expenses are covered. Why is it so affordable? Because it covers only hospital
expenses. Any fees from a physician who is not a hospital employee (i.e., who bills the patient privately) I would pay out of pocket.

Before I come to the big question—why will I lose this insurance plan if anything like the House bill becomes law?—I want to address a smaller one.
Why do I choose the Empire "Tradition Plus" plan instead of a comprehensive HMO-type plan that covers physician fees, prescriptions, etc.?
Because, unlike other states, New York already mandates two things that the current federal health-care reform will mandate. The first mandate
prohibits insurers from denying coverage because of a pre-existing medical condition. The second mandate prohibits insurers from denying
coverage, or determining prices, based on age. The result is that HMO plans in the state are now very expensive. The price of Empire's basic,
least expensive HMO plan is more than $13,000 a year for an individual, more than $26,000 a year for a married couple, and more than $39,000
a year for a family with children. Empire is a reputable firm and those prices are typical of what's available to New York City residents. Upstate New Yorkers pay slightly less.

The only less expensive alternative is the "Tradition Plus" plan. That's why I buy it. The money I save by not buying the basic HMO plan
—roughly $11,000 a year—I can draw on to pay for any doctor visits I choose to make.

The House health-care reform bill hinges on what it calls a "qualified" health-care plan. Individuals will be required by law either to buy a plan
that meets the criteria of a qualified health-care plan or pay a fine. What are those criteria? They're the basic components of a comprehensive
HMO-type plan, which means that Empire's "Tradition Plus" will not qualify because it covers only hospital costs. In other words, if President Obama
signs into law the kind of health-care reform bill that is currently on the table, I will have only two choices: buy an expensive qualified plan or pay a fine for being uninsured.

And there is nothing in any of the pending health-care legislation that will make the cost of a qualified plan significantly lower than it is in New York now.
On the contrary, once the health-insurance mandates that already exist in New York become the law of the land, insurance premiums everywhere else
will rise as they did here. What I can't figure out is why Congress would want to prohibit someone like me from keeping an affordable hospitalization plan.
It works for me and it works for the hospital. I guess that's the problem. It's simple, it's easy to understand, and it works.

I realize that we who buy our own health insurance are a fairly small percentage of the market, but there are millions of us.
Millions more may have an employer-based plan today, but not tomorrow. So, as I prepare for the winter of my disinsurance, at least I'm not alone.

Mr. Heinze is a writer in New York.

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Yup, those folks who think they can take from everybody else and reduce their problems (i.e. NY, MASS, NJ) brought on by this sort of slop...
have another think coming...but they "believe"...and will right up until they are faced by the cold facts...bringing the "hopes" to "lies" - game over.
I think one Republican Senator called it "Waterloo" - so naturally "believers" found him "wanting the president to fail"...Lord, the canons of simplicity.
I'll check this thread a year from now (if Obamacare passes) and see what the percentages are then. Hey G4A...any bets?

republicans and Obama haters are just aholes
this article prooves it

You would rather Jeb come in

I wouldn't

How bout indianhead, you put your cheapo insurance and mine add em together and divide by two
fair for both of us

(btw-the payment inc. the bet I lost will be coming the 24th of Nov.)

There was NO fat joke, graham ....

Someone who follows this issue closely told me that that was going to be a provision of OBAMACARE ....

That people deemed overweight or obese were going to be charged a premium for that condition ....

How the hell do you see any kind of joke in that, graham?

And so ...

There is NO justification whatsoever for IH and Beamer to have to pay for your gold-plated Cadillac insurance plan, graham ....

You want the top shelf cut of steak, and you want to pay hamburger prices for it by having people who get nothing but a smear of grease on their plate to have to pay as if that smear of grease was a filet mignon ....

And so ...

I would take the strip steak version with the option to purchase a rider for filet mignon should I ever wish to do so.

Right now, I don't even have the grease spot!

Nor do I, heart ....