You will not bad mouth any troops here as long as I am a moderator. Your post has been deleted.

Xinloi

http://www.vvaw.org/commentary/?id=365

Antonin, please check this out, then it would be good to come back and let us know what you think.

Hack's Target

It Is Up to You And Me





By David H. Hackworth



Considering the hits we keep taking in our global fight against terrorism, I?m gearing up in ?05 to go up against the Pentagon?s increasingly out-of-control campaign to keep us all conned. The cover-ups track too often with more names added to the U.S. casualty list.



So here's my New Year?s resolution: to keep countering Pentagon lies with the truth until enough concerned citizens demand that Congress set up a congressional investigative arm to formally expose the liars and hold them accountable.



For almost six decades, I?ve borne witness to scuzzy machinations that had little or nothing to do with America?s national security. And because of them, I?ve watched my beloved country become enmeshed in far too many blood-splattered military misadventures only because they were good for Pentagon business. I?ve seen trillions of dollars allocated for gold-plated pork of value only to the monsters who manipulate the military-industrial-congressional complex and absolutely worthless to our gallant soldiers ? the kids who end up paying the ultimate price for the madness of war.



Had a decent chunk of that dough been spent on the right stuff ? supporting our troops ? our warriors wouldn?t have fought in Korea in 1950 with World War I gear or be slugging it out in Iraq in scrounged ?hillbilly armor? and told to go to war with the Army we have and to suck it up.



The final straw for me was when I asked Pentagon flack Jim Turner last November if Donald Rumsfeld personally signed the letters to the loved ones of those killed in action in Iraq and Afghanistan. A day later he told me, ?Rumsfeld signs the letters himself.?



But before the sun had set, he sent me the following e-mail: Our official response follows. Jim. ?The SECDEF correspondence with any family members of DoD (Department of Defense) personnel is private in nature.?



Then Stars & Stripes reporter Leo Shane III contacted me, jumped onto the story with both boots and brilliantly wore the Pentagon lie machine down into finally confessing that Rumsfeld had not personally signed all the KIA letters.



Okaaaaay. If Rummy & Spinners are into lying about signing KIA letters, then what really went down with WMDs in Iraq, and how is our $6 billion-a-month war in that sad, bloody land really going? And is the Pentagon truly busting its butt to provide our soldiers with sufficient armor protection, or is that spin, too?



The lying under the Rumsfeld regime seems to get worse daily. For example, the SecDef recently said the 9/11 aircraft that crashed in Pennsylvania was shot down ? which is either very sloppy or very scary. Or both.



And following their head honcho?s lead, the Pentagon prevaricators have definitely gotten more skilled at pulling the wool over the eyes of all of us, starting with our congressional reps ? who as our watchdogs should be first in line to ask hard questions.



The president of Soldiers for the Truth (SFTT.org), retired Marine Lt. Col. Roger Charles, is equally incensed about this dangerous trend. ?The Pentagon spin machine likes to brag about its devotion to ethics and truth-telling, but this doesn?t stack up with its track record of misrepresentation, from the Vietnam War to Adm. Jeremy Boorda?s phony valor awards to Air Force Gen. Joe Ashy?s brazen dalliance with a female aide during a very expensive taxpayer-funded plane ride to what?s been going down in Iraq,? Charles raged.



Col. Charles and Soldiers for the Truth (of which I am one of the original founders) have vowed that the truth will triumph over deception. ?But this will be a hard slug as unfortunately, from my foxhole here on the Potomac, the lying, damage control and obfuscation are only getting worse,? he said. ?While there?s always been pressure in the military by the spinners ? which unfortunately include too many commissioned officers who?ve forgotten their oath of office about lying, cheating and stealing ? to protect their bosses or platinum programs, the problem is reaching critical mass, and that creates a very unhealthy climate for democracy.?



The only way to change this sorry situation is for all of us to emulate Howard Beale in that great 1976 film, ?Network,? when he stood tall and said, ?I?m as mad as hell, and I?m not going to take it anymore!?

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews....6.7501669971673

vfguenley
Living with Lies
By Dave Curry, Joe Miller and Barry Romo --- that is a good page on the VVAW site Bro'. Makes sense to me --for sure. Antonin, liked your post as well. A lot of people will see that post as "Un-American", but it is as American as apple pie and chevrolet. Why, because you use your freedom of speech to express your freedom of expression without any harm coming ones way. That there is the American way Antonin and I agree with your post! Hang tough and be well - vfguenley, card carrying member of the VVAW I presume. Same here Bro' and damm proud of it!

Xinloi,
It is not my position or my motivation to say anything derogatory about the soldiers serving in the Iraqi conflict. I too was a warrior fighting in an unpopular war while being lied to by my president. From this perspective, we will probably find ourselves with differing opinions from time to time. If we are to fear censorship in an effort to obtain the truth, then it becomes obvious that the cost of censorship is the truth.

Question: Would it be bad mouthing the troops to say they tortured prisoners at Abu Ghraib? Just asking. No offense to the truth mind you.

You rock Joe.

Protest the war, not the warrior.

A great read for all, pro and con,
On the Oil-Slicked Road to Empire: Are We Really Safer Now?
By Barry Romo, Dave Curry & Joe Miller

Couldn't they at least save a museum full of cultural treasures?
If a war is wrong before it starts, it's still wrong after it starts. It's still wrong even after a victory. By crossing the Kuwait border and invading Kuwait, Saddam Hussein was wrong. And by crossing the Kuwait border and invading Iraq, George Bush was just as wrong.

This was not a war of self-defense. This was not a war against weapons of mass destruction (WMD). This was a war for money and power, not democracy and safety. And with its victory, America moves closer to the status of empire.

If it wasn't about oil, why did the coalition of the willing get guards to the petroleum ministry and not to the international museum of antiquities?
US forces are protecting the oil but not the hospitals.

Months ago the Bush administration made public its goal to "democratize" or "denationalize" Iraq's vast oil resources. Democratizing oil would have to involve bringing in the multinational corporations that control oil in the so-called "democracies." Market mechanisms already developed in democratic countries would insure dividing the spoils fairly among the competing companies.

According to Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld, the United States invaded Iraq because Saddam posed a threat to his neighbors and had weapons of mass destruction. However, 99% of Saddam's neighbors didn't buy this.That's why 99% of the coalition of the willing was made up of the US and the UK. And, where are those huge stockpiles of WMD? Hell, where are any?

Photo ops and scenes of crowds of enthusiastic civilians have already given way to tens of thousands of demonstrators chanting for America and Britain to leave. How long before chants change to grenades? We've seen US/UK casualties and some POWs, but nothing about the Iraqi dead. There is no body count here because we killed a lot of them, and that image doesn't fit the press conference scenario.

Bush says he cares a lot about democracy, but he's not quite sure what kind. The Shiite Muslims constitute 60% of the population. What do we do if the people of Iraq want an Islamic state? Senators Lieberman and Lugar are already making noises about how the US would have a hard time accepting Islamic rule in Iraq, even if this were the result of a popular vote. Shades of Henry Kissinger and Pinochet's Chile!

There is big talk about self-determination, but the Kurds cannot have a state. How come Lithuania, Ukraine, Slovenia, Vatican City, and on and on can have self-determination but not the Kurds? After the US betrayed these poor people for the last 30 years, covered up their genocide with WMD by Saddam when he was our great and good ally and called for them to rise only to be massacred, shouldn't we assure them of a homeland, just like everyone else? Don't the Kurds deserve this as much as the former republics of the Soviet Union?

The Pentagon has gone out of its way not to inform, but only to provide glimpses from the GIs of Iraqi soldiers not willing to give up, of being bombed and shot and decimated. One military lifer on TV, commenting on the returning POWs, said that they would have nightmares for a while but that they would go away soon. Tell that to the 'Nam vets that can't sleep. Hell, tell that to WWII combat vets!

GIs and veterans from this war can't really expect any better treatment when they get home than was provided for Vietnam vets or vets from Gulf War I. They are not even home yet and already they are talking to the media about guilt over killing women and children and even Iraqi soldiers. The Senate recently cut a bill to raise combat pay in half. More budget cuts for GIs and soldiers are on the way. The VA hospitals are closing. Too bad a yellow ribbon doesn't pay the rent.
Americans are less safe in our own country than ever in the country's history. We continue to have homeland security alerts and anthrax scares. Many Americans live in fear of terrorism, a fear that is encouraged by our government. At the same time, jobs and health care become increasingly out of reach for all of us.

The historian of the decline of Rome noted: "The principal conquests of the Romans were achieved under the republic." Rome gained control by its superior military might. Rome maintained control by establishing military garrisons in conquered nations. The Pentagon is already pushing for long-term access to at least four bases in Iraq. The new Imperial America flouts its power, imposes its will, and stops even the development of rising regional powers. The US hadn't even taken Baghdad and Rumsfeld was already threatening Syria. In addition, a majority of these neo-cons inbred in the Pentagon are threatening Iran. No one knows who we will invade next, but don't expect much of a breather. Our troops are in the area, and they are there to stay for a while. We should not be fooled by the chess-playing moves of Rumsfeld in shifting troops from one area to another.

Iraq, along with its oil and humanitarian problems should be turned over to the UN and international humanitarian organizations. American troops must return home. The Iraqi people and the Kurds must determine their own future.

We do not have to go along with this empire building. We should not allow more US troops to be used as cannon fodder in this "Project for the New American Century"! We in the peace and social justice movement should not allow ourselves to become demoralized because we did not stop this war. We should celebrate and build upon the worldwide movement that was in the streets and in the city council chambers and parliaments as an opposition to the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld war. We should be centrally involved in every possible effort to engage in "regime change" here in the United States.

In particular, as veterans, we played and continue to play a central role in challenging this march to empire. We know what it's like to have been lied to in a war - many wars, in fact. We know what it's like to be part of a military machine that is only in place to defend the economic and political interests of a narrow stratum of people who want to maintain their power and position. We know what it's like to come home to shrinking veterans' benefits and closing VA hospitals. In the thirty-six year history of VVAW, we also know what it is like to take the long view and maintain our activism for the long haul.

We should be in the forefront of evaluating this war and its consequences. We should help to educate our brothers and sisters in the military and in the larger community as to the meaning behind the neo-con effort at empire-building and the real costs, human and otherwise, of this effort. In the end, we are not safer with the "victory" in Iraq. The struggle for a peaceful and just world order continues, and we cannot afford to hang back now!
Vietnam Veterans Against the War

Methinks 'twas not "they" but rather some, a few, and those are now being prosecuted for their misdeads. You wouldn't want to be painting with too broad a brush lest you cover too much with your stroke, eh?

Xinloi, okay you deleted a few posts, so be it! One was from a Combat Vietnam Vet, he_l he is used to being deleted. But don't let Dress Blue here kizz your azz. Seems like this is his main mission Xinloi! LOL You Rock' Joe---LOL-- Give us a break with the suk' up! LOL Un-free-kin real! He does not know when to quit! LOL And probably will never quit---Long Time Habits are hard to break Xinloi! Thats my oppinion and you know what they say about oppinions Xinloi (LOL)- Be ready Bro', he'll be droppin' a number on me to you or another mod about this post. He would make it for a long time on the street Xinloi--LOL--about an hour! Hang Tough -

I think we can all agree, that supporting the troops is necessary even if some don't support the war. All of our soldiers are someone's kids. If it was your kid, you would damn well want to make sure they had the support of the citizens back home, even if those citizens did not agree with why they were sent to fight . As part of this post, why don't we at CSCG take this opportunity to establish a way to show our support for our Troops, running a thread a week with stories of courage and honor, setting up ways for all here to donate needed articles , if they can or want, or perhaps reaching out to military families to help in any way we can....... All of life is a series of confluences, we may diverge on many issues, but we, as a nation , always converge again in our support for each other. Let's move forward with a new sense of Democracy, a new plan to help the Dems, the Progressives, the Moderates, and the Independents become the party of inclusion,.... not exclusion.... And this begins by accepting that not everyone in this country thinks alike , but all are AMERICANS. We are smart enough to be able to support what is important to our American society, even if the opposition has claimed it as their own, and still acheive great political success independent of such opposition. On to practicalities, I am NO computer whiz, anyone volunteering to help set some of this stuff up?

LeIbNiZ
Methinks (LOL) if you can figure out Barnacle Bills BS above, you are doing well! I kind of think I know what stroke Salty Dog is taling about! LOL - Be Well--

Lillianleigh

I hear what your saying above. You can support the Troops and oppose the "SHRUB" policy. You do not have to be a yellow ribbon on the ol' SUV hanger to support the G.I.'S and Veterans. There are many ways of supporting them without supporting the Chickenhawks. And your right everyone in this country does not think alike. You and me are prime examples. But I know from seeing beaucoup of the BS mentioned above, supporting the G.I.'S is not letting them come back in alluminum boxes and ending up all fudged up in military hospitals for "SHRUB" pocket change, because it is the fad thing to do! You be well-

Why I as a Vietnam Vet support the Troops and oppose the Bush Policy

Id like to explain why I, as a Vietnam Veteran, protest the war on Iraq, yet support the troops.

There are thousands of young Americans waging a bloody war in Iraq, right now as I write. I see these young Americans, and I know that they were my age or older when I was in Vietnam.

I do not envy their situation, and I do not blame them. I understand that very little separates my life from theirs, and that years ago it was me fighting a war. I see myself in them and thus support them and look forward to their safe return.

However, on the same token, there are thousands of young and older Iraqi men and woman waging a bloody war in Iraq. I see these people, my age, younger, and older. I do not blame them. I most likely if in their position would fight just like they do. We have no right to be at war with Iraq based on the lies told to us and the world by the "SHRUB".

Why have we as Americans taken our current path of war. Because we did not try hard enough for peace or because we listened to some person claiiming to be the War President and his "Chickenhawk" brigade.

That is a very poor excuse to give thousands of dead people and their grieving families.

Please understand, the "SHRUB'S" policies are actively killing and wounding a lot of Iraqi civilians as well as plenty of young men and woman in the U.S. military.
Is this how we as American citizens support our Troops? Be Well -

Bammo: Check out the post on civility and and being a comrade. You can be wacky without being rude. This is a potentially good thread about what constitutes supporting the troops +/- opposing the invasion of Iraq.

I

Brookster
Can see the VFW Stool sitters must have been shut off. Could be wrong, just an oppinion. So Brookster, what can I do for you? Civility and being a comrade, think Tail gunner Joe would have something to say about that if he was with us! LOL Now Wacky and rude - Wacky must be some kind of tobacco you are refering to, right? And rude, In no intention was I trying to be "RUDE" - LOL Just calling the tide like I see it Brookster, and seen it LOW! Don't see anything wrong in Barnacle Bill -- good song for the salts amongst us! As far as the thread, post something besides this foolishness so we all can benefit from your post. You want me to say I appologize, don't you. LOL-- Don't hold you breath! Bamk on that Brookster. Hang Tough -

It is not my intent to comply with fad.... just to acknowledge that we are all capable of seeing beyond the obvious. We can react to another's need without lessening our own existence, or our own sustained drive to attain a goal.. Whether those who post here support the war or not, most seem to be fairly reasonable and itelligent people, who are just not happy with the current political enivornment. They can take positive action towards productive change by adopting THIS worthy cause , which simutaneously serves to help other Americans in need, while negating the Rights constant assault on the Lefts reputation as unpatriotic. Deny the oppostion the opportuntiy to claim any issue as soley theirs, as all issues we confront are Amercian issues, not theirs, ours or yours.

Lillianleigh
Let me ask you, what do you see beyond the obvious Lillian? And truthfully you went right on over this dumb azz grunt head with the rest of your post. My ignorance, you have to excuse, please. Nope, I am not a happy camper Lillian - got that much! Have not been for some years now -, since I came back from Southeast Asia, reasons that do not mean much, except to me. Do I think a forum can change the condition of political mess we are in today with the Chickenhawks? Nope, words and BS will not do Jack Squat. But it is an outlet and some ideas might just come out of the outlet - who knows. I do not assault the reputation of the Left - where in the world did you get that from? I am not conservative either, but I am against George W. Bush's anti - american politics and fiasco in Iraq. And I am not afraid to vocalize my discontent in any shape, form, way or demonstration. If this does not seem adequate to your trend of thought, I cannot help you with that. Lillian, you be well -

I applaud your willingness to vocalize your opinions, and I respect your right to entertain those opinions, but my true ambition here is not to agree or disagree but to help the true Democratic Party regain its political foothold, and the way a forum like this can contribute is through the solicitation of ideas, thoughts., comments and concerns. Example, more heads are better than one.

Lillianleigh
And I applaud your way of getting the "SHRUB" out of Dodge. And 100% respect your voice in that matter. Wish you luck in your quest and you take care -

Blood shed in all our names




I've just about had it with the sanctimoniousness of some people who think that the only way to support our troops is through unquestioning allegiance to whatever policy is concocted by the men who put those troops in harm's way.

What does that "support" cost anyone? What does it mean?
Does it mean citizens shouldn't question the wisdom of Donald Rumsfeld in sending those troops into danger zones riding in unarmored Humvees?
Does it mean that Don Rumsfeld, himself, supports those troops when he sends letters with impersonal auto-penned signatures to the next-of-kin of the men and women who have given their lives in pursuit of vague aims?

Such is the arrogance of this man that the sacrifice of a life is not worth the time and trouble it would take to sign his name.
Though Rumsfeld now does sign those letters by hand, the fact remains that many of those troops are dead because Rumsfeld's policies made them sitting ducks in the midst of a civil war he helped engineer.

To some of these so-called supporters of our troops, anyone who raises questions about these policies or policy makers is giving aid and comfort to our enemies. From what I read, Osama bin Laden takes a lot of aid and comfort from President Bush's policies. As bin Laden said in a recent tape, his objective is to bankrupt the United States. By that measure, Bush administration policies would seem to be bin Laden's fondest dreams realized.

Each day Bush has been in office has brought bigger deficits. We now are sitting on the greatest debt in the nation's history. Beyond that, the nation has been on a spending binge unparalleled in our history. We've already spent more than $100 billion in Iraq, with no end in sight. Bush also authorized a hugely expensive drug-benefit package that is primarily a windfall of profits for drug companies.

He's funding NASA at higher levels, and putting a mission to Mars on the nation's credit card. There is no pork barrel project he's vetoed in four years. All of that spending has been going on despite an enormous tax giveaway to the rich.
We also have the biggest trade deficit we've ever had. The dollar is weaker than it has ever been against foreign currencies.

International drug dealers, of all people, now prefer to be paid in Euros. More and more U.S. jobs are being exported, and more foreign goods are peddled by fewer and fewer retailers (like Wal-Mart). The economy looks increasingly like a house of cards. U.S. prestige throughout the world is lower than it's ever been.
Aid and comfort to our enemies? What more could our enemies ask for than what the Bushies are giving them?

The young American men and women in Iraq are there doing our collective bidding. Their blood is on our hands. Of course we should support them, but I hope our support means more than Rumsfeld's support means.
I hope those soldiers will be afforded all the nation can give them to rehabilitate their minds and their bodies when they get home. That has seldom been the case in our history, however.

In the 1930s, the men who fought the battles of World War I were fired on in the nation's capitol by American troops led by Douglas MacArthur, a former comrade in arms, simply because they sought early payment of bonuses that had been promised them, bonuses they'd paid for in blood and sacrifice.
And my own father, a veteran of World War II, was unable to get much out of the Veteran's Administration until he fell into a coma, and then the coffers were opened so that doctors and pill pushers could make extravagant profits off his inert and unfixable body.

Vietnam vets saw an equally dismal level of support for programs to help them, and gained little support for their complaints from all those hawks who had paid unstinting lip service to "supporting" them when they were in the field.
Some of those people whose "support" for the troops is touted the loudest are the very ones unwilling to even take the trouble of informing themselves.

Some of them still believe that there was a link between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. Some of them insist, boneheadedly, that Iraqis were behind the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center.

Some of them insist that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
They engage in wishful thinking by believing a democracy can be imposed by force on a sharply divided nation composed largely of warring religious sects.
Hey, it may sound like a long shot, but if it ain't their kid over there, then it appears they're willing to gamble.

I remember being in fights like that when I was a boy on the playground, with my "supporters" behind me, cheering me on while I was getting my butt kicked.
They tended to disappear about the time the fight was over and I was slinking home trying to clean off the scrapes and the blood so my mother wouldn't get upset.

Those of us who think this war was a bad idea are people who also support our troops, and I'd put our support for those young men and women up against those people who think that support for the troops means automatic and unquestioned support for the policies that are getting them killed.

The mothers and fathers whose kids are over there are as divided as the rest of the nation is about the wisdom of our Iraq invasion. Supporters of the Bush policy do not "own" the sacrifice those men and women are making, and I'm very tired of the sanctimoniousness that paints their political views with the blood of the fallen.
http://www.paradisepost.com/Stories/0,1413...2641536,00.html

No Tom, I'm still here, I read what Lcyberlinda ask us to do and respect her request.

Would of laid big time odds you would of! No surprise to me or many Vets in this forum. Be Well -

WOW WHAT A THREAD.

OK-IN THE SPIRIT OF CIVILITY, HARMONY, JUSTICE AND THE AMERICAN WAY.

ARMYDAD'S GONNA RANT AND RAVE ABOUT WHAT THE RIGHT-WING VETERANS ARE TRYING TO DO NOW.

EVEN WHILE WE ARE IN VIETNAM PART II IN IRAQ VETERANS FOR BUSH WANT TO HAVE A WELCOME HOME CELEBRATION FOR VIETNAM VETERANS. WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?

OUR KIDS ARE FIGHTING AND DYING IN A WAR BASED ON LIES, AND THESE FOLKS WANT TO "USE" VIETNAM VETERANS TO MAKE AMERICA FEEL BAD ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE DID TO THEM 30 YEARS AGO.

MEANING THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT

ARMYDAD SEES A HIDDEN AGENDA HERE.

ARMYDAD SEES KARL ROVE'S USE OF RIGHT WING NUT VETERANS THAT HE USED DURING THE 2004 ELECTION TO DEFEAT THE DEMOCRATS.

ARMYDAD SEES THE USE OF VIETNAM VETERANS TO DISCOURAGE THE EXPANSION OF THE ANTI-BUSH WAR MOVEMENT AND ENCOURAGE A PATRIOTIC UPSURGE IN MILITARY RECRUITMENT WITH THE TELEVISED PARADES AND SUCH.

WOW - JOSEPH GOEBBELS COULDN'T HAVE COME UP WITH A BETTER NATIONALISTIC PLAN FOR RALLYING THE COUNTRY BEHIND A WAR EFFORT GONE AWRY.

READ ON IF YOU DARE. I PROMISE = NO INSULTS = NO RUDENESS.

ONLY THE FACTS WITH LINKS TO THE PLAYERS INVOLVED.

ColonelDan <ColonelDan@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

To: Ohio Veterans for Progress
From: "ColonelDan"
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:29:39 -0600
Subject: [VeteranIssues] Homecoming Events to Mark Vietnam War

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VIE...=customwire.htm

http://www.operationhomecomingusa.com/ June 13-19 Branson MO

http://vetsjourneyhome.dyndns.org/

Homecoming Events to Mark Vietnam War

By JAMES HANNAH
Associated Press Writer

DAYTON, Ohio (AP) -- When Mike Jackson came back from Vietnam in 1972, he
was met by ant-war protesters - not exactly a warm and fuzzy hello.

Now, 30 years after the war ended, Jackson is helping organize an event to finally welcome Vietnam veterans home.

"You've got a whole segment of the population that went through the same thing I did," said Jackson, who wrote a war memoir titled "Naked in Da Nang."

"I just want somebody to say thank you, somebody to say welcome home. It
would mean a lot."

Jackson is spearheading Operation Welcome Home, a four-day celebration to be
held Veterans Day weekend in Las Vegas. A similar event, Operation
Homecoming USA, is set for June in Branson, Mo. A highlight of both will be a parade.

There haven't been many ceremonies and parades over the years for the 7.9
million Vietnam veterans, though there was a homecoming parade 20 years ago
in New York City that drew about 25,000 former soldiers.

Military historian J. Michael Wenger can't recall any official homecoming parades during or shortly after the war.

"The military was just ready to have it done with," said Wenger, of Raleigh, N.C., who also has written about the Vietnam War. "It would have been a publicity nightmare. It would have attracted protesters like a magnet."

Jackson, 57, vividly recalls his June 25, 1972, return to the United States. Anti-war protesters were at the airport in San Francisco to harass him and his fellow soldiers as they caught flights home.

"We walked a gantlet through these guys on either side of us, putting signs in front of your face and screaming at you," recalled Jackson, who flew 210 combat missions during the war. "This was our welcome home."

When he returned to his hometown of Tipp City, just north of Dayton, there were no parades or any official welcome-home events. People were pleasant, he said, but not one asked him about his Vietnam experience.

"Nobody wanted to hear it," he said.

Clinical psychologist Steven Herman said many Vietnam veterans feel that their service was meaningless because of the way they were treated when they came home. This year's homecoming events could ease those feelings, he said.

"At the very least, it would provide some validation," said Herman, who practices at the Richard L. Roudebush VA Medical Center in Indianapolis.

YET YOU GO TO MIKE JACKSON'S WEB SITE (BELOW) AND WHAT YOU FIND IS A B.G. BURKETT, RIGHT-WING VIETNAM REVISIONIST HISTORIAN "STOLEN VALOR" CLONE. MIKE JACKSON STRONGLY BELIEVES THAT THE MEDIA STEREOTYPE OF THE MALADJUSTED LONG-HAIRED, PTSD SUFFERING VIETNAM VETERAN WAS NOT TRUE, AND YOUR AVERAGE GI SERVING IN VIETNAM NEEDED NO RE-ADJUSTMENT TO AMERICAN SOCIETY UPON RETURN. THUS, WHY DOES HE NOW FEEL THE NEED FOR A CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST INPUT AND A PARADE? THAT'S RIGHT FOLKS = THERE'S A MONETARY INCENTIVE "PLUS" PATRIOTIC RIGHT-WING VIETNAM VETERAN WELCOME HOME EVENTS WOULD BE JUST THE THING TO "DISCOURAGE" THE GROWING ANTI-BUSH WAR MOVEMENT AS THINGS IN IRAQ CONTINUE TO GET WORSE. IT WOULD ALSO BE A SPUR TO RECRUITMENT

YOU WILL NOTE ALSO THE MIKE JACKSON AND HIS WIFE ARE SELF EMPLOYED IN THE DAYTON AREA. THEY PROMOTE FUND RAISING EVENTS. WHAT BETTER SCAM TO RAISE FUNDS ON THAN "THE VIETNAM AND IRAQ WAR" AND VETERANS.
Gene McMahon is a Vietnam veteran and directs the Vets Journey Home, a
program for his former fellow soldiers to vent traumatic wartime
experiences.

The program has simulated homecomings for small groups of Vietnam veterans.
McMahon said those homecomings that can be critical to helping them heal.

"They have a missing piece," he said.

McMahon appreciates this year's homecomings but questions whether the Las Vegas and Branson events will be able to heal the severe psychological wounds suffered by some veterans.

"It will be too little too late," he said. "It's deeper work than that."

MY PROBLEM WITH THEM IS THAT THEY ARE INAPPROPRIATE WHILE WE HAVE TROOPS COMMITTED TO COMBAT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD "AND" THE PROMOTERS HAVE A PROFIT MOTIVE OTHERTHAN WELCOMING HOME VIETNAM VETERANS - THEY ONLY WANT TO "USE" VIETNAM VETERANS ARMYDAD

Jackson calls the Las Vegas event a start.

"The time is right in the American psyche to do this," he said. "I think that there is a little bit of guilt in the American public on what did we do to these guys."

GET REAL = OVER 1000 AMERICAN TROOPS HAVE DIED BASED ON LIES, AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE STILL ON A GUILT TRIP OVER WHAT HAPPENED 30 YEARS AGO. DON'T THING THE RATINGS FOR MOST PRIME TIME TV SHOWS HAVE GONE DOWN LIFE GOES ON. HECK, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES FOR DOING NOTHING TO STOP THE KILLING OF OUR TROOPS AND ITAQIS IN A WAR BASED ON LIES NOW. ARMYDAD.

Branson organizer Gary Linderer, of Festus, Mo., agrees the homecomings are
late but better than nothing.

OH BTW GARY LINDERER WAS A MEMBER OF VIETNAM VETERANS AGAINST JOHN KERRY PLUS A BUDDY OF TED SAMPLEY. LINDERER WANTS TO WELCOME VIETNAM VETERANS HOME, BUT THIS SNAKE IS NOT ABOVE SMEARING OTHER COMBAT VETERANS = INCLUDING JOHN MCCAIN. ARMYDAD

"There are a lot of vets that are bitter and angry to this day," he said. "How do you apologize for what happened 30 years ago? This doesn't make up for it."

HECK THOUGH YOU GUYS DID THAT WHEN YOU GOT EVEN WITH JOHN KERRY. IT WAS HIS FAULT WE LOST THE VIETNAM WAR :D

On the Net:

http://www.operationhomecomingusa.com/

http://vetsjourneyhome.dyndns.org/

"Keep on, Keepin' on", Support Veterans & Thanks...Dan Cedusky, Champaign IL "Colonel Dan" See my web site at:
http://www.angelfire.com/il2/VeteranIssues/

Forward to a veteran or Sign up a Veteran to this list at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VeteranIssues/join


I don't mean of OFFEND my brothers and sisters who fought in NAM but as the FATHER of a Soldier now fighting in Vietnam Part II, I have several problems with this so-called WELCOME HOME for Vietnam Veterans.

1. What little research I've done thus far reflects that the clowns setting up these events are Right-Wing (most-likely) GOP Veterans cut from the same cloth as Ted Sampley, John O.Neill, and B.G. Burkett.

2. More importantly ARMYDAD feels it MOST INAPPROPRIATE that one generation of Veterans be celebrating their WELCOME HOME from THEIR WAR while another generation is FIGHTING THEIRS (VIETNAM). My GOD you can just take the charter of Vietnam Veterans of America and it's MOTTO = "Never again shall one generation of veterans abandon another." Rip it up and throw it in the trash can.
Bobby Hanafin for one will have nothing to do with these celebrations as long as MY SON or anyone Else's SON or DAUGHTER remains in COMBAT anywhere in the world.

Let me start with Mike Jackson and the Veterans Journey Home Event planned for Las Vegas, NV., since Jackson is an former Air Force officer from Ohio. First off Mike Jackson was former executive director of the National Aviation Hall of Fame. He was a Forward Air Controller during Vietnam. That's his claim to fame. However, he did fly quite a few combat missions.

http://newsobserver.com/news/ncwire_news/s...p-8365432c.html

POINT: Air Force officers, especially in Ohio, and especially in the Dayton, Ohio area tend to be a bit on the ultra conservative side. YOU CAN BET YOUR BIPPY THIS GUY VOTED FOR BUSH!

He is also a writer. Mike Jackson. He has written:

Baghdad Butcher AND Back to Iraq

http://www.new-we.com/products/bookstore3.html

http://www.new-we.com/fiction.html#baghdad

HE FANTASIZES ON WAR. MAKES $$$ ON WAR AND GETS HIS ROCKS OFF ON WAR. NOW HE WANTS TO MAKE A PROFIT HAVING PARADES AND CELEBRATIONS IN LAS VEGAS TO WELCOME VIETNAM VETERANS HOME.

OH BTW - The above books are FICTIONAL.

Mike wrote a book called Naked in Da Nang which is not fiction. http://www.nakedindanang.com/welcome_home_pr.htm

HE IS A REVISIONIST VIETNAM HISTORIAN JUST LIKE GEORGE BUSH'S GOOD OLE BUDDY B.G. BURKETT WHO WROTE "STOLEN VALOR."

I haven't been able to find out anything too suspicious about Gary Linderer thus far. I ran a Google search that shows Linderer's Web Site is crawling with links to Right-Wing Nut Veterans groups who go for the REVISIONISTS take on Vietnam. Translation: If we would have staid another decade we would have WON!

In fact, he has ties with the POW/MIA movement type like Ted Sampley and Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry, but I'm not sure what they are or how direct.

REGARDLESS THE FATHER OF A SOLDIER IN HIS OWN VIETNAM FEELS IT HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE FOR VIETNAM VETERANS TO HAVE A WELCOME HOME AT THIS TIME. LET'S HAVE A WELCOME HOME AT THE SAME TIME WE WELCOME HOME THE IRAQI WAR TROOPS

BOTTOM LINE: THIS IS MORE A MOVE BY THE CHICKEN HAWKS TO "USE" VIETNAM VETERANS TO DISCOURAGE EXPANDED PROTEST AGAINST BUSH'S (VIETNAM) WAR IN IRAQ AS THE SITUATION CONTINUES TO DETERIORATE. AGAIN NOTE THE MONETARY MOTIVE THE ORGANIZERS HAVE FOR THROWING THIS "WELCOME HOME" PARADE FOR VIETNAM VETERANS = WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?

Bobby Hanafin, Ohio Veterans for Progress

PS: After I contact this guy Mike Jackson to discuss those dime novels he wrote on Iraq, I'm going to send him an email with a piece of my mind as a Father with a Soldier fighting in Iraq as this small time War Profiteer makes $$$ off him.

Wow, that's sick Armydad.

Who's going to be the Master of Ceremonies - Rummy?

The Guest of Honor - Bush?

The Vietnam veteran chosen to speak for all Nam vets - John O'Neill?

What's going on now in this country is a tragedy and a travesty and they want to package it, advertise it, and sell it.

I ain't buying it. See ya around the forum.

LET US GET THE SEQUEL OVER THEN WE CAN HAVE A PARADE FOR "ALL" VETERANS AND TROOPS NOW ISN'T THAT A BETTER IDEA

PLUS THERE IS THE INSINUATION THAT THOSE WHO PROTESTED AGAINST THE VIETNAM WAR DID SOMETHING WRONG. WELL ONLY THOSE WHO WOULD RE-WRITE HISTORY BECAUSE THEY NOW "CONTROL" THE GOVERNMENT HOLD THAT VIEW.

HOW HISTORICALLY ACCURATE IS IT?

HOW MUCH LONGER WOULD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE ALLOWED THE VIETNAM WAR TO DRAG ON WITH OUT AN END IN SIGHT?

HOW MUCH LONGER WILL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ALLOW THE SEQUEL TO DRAG ON WITHOUT AN EXIT PLAN?

ARMYDAD

Wow, that's sick Armydad.

What's going on now in this country is a tragedy and a travesty and they want to package it, advertise it, and sell it.

I ain't buying it. See ya around the forum.

ANOTHER THING THAT I'M GETTING TIRED OF HEARING THE RIGHT WING ABUSE AND "STEREOTYPE" IS WHINING ABOUT BEING SPIT UPON - BRAD.

NOW ARMYDAD ISN'T SAYING THAT EVERY VIETNAM VETERAN WHO RETURNED FROM THE NAM DIDN'T RECEIVE A COLD WELCOME HOME. FAR FROM IT, BUT THE RIGHT WING NUTS ARE STRETCHING THIS WAYYYYYYYYYYYY OUT OF PROPORTION.

IN FACT, THEY ARE DOING WITH THE "I WAS SPIT UPON" LINE WHAT THEY ACCUSE THE LEFT WING MEDIA AND ANIT-WAR MOVEMENT OF DOING = PRODUCING A STEREOTYPE OF THE LONG HAIR, MOTOR CYCLE RIDING, VIETNAM VETERANS ALL DECKED OUT WITH MEDALS AND PATRIOTIC CRAP YOU SEE COME ROLLING INTO "THE WALL" EVERY MEMORIAL DAY. OH OF COURSE THROW IN THOSE RIPPING OFF THE TAX PAYER WITH FAKE CLAIMS OF PTSD AND AGENT ORANGE OF COURSE. POINT IS IF YOU DON'T FIT B.G. BURKETT'S RIGHT-WING "IMAGE" OF WHAT A VIETNAM VETERAN SHOULD LOOK LIKE = YOUR STATUS AS A VETERAN'S GONNA BE QUESTION. OF COURSE THIS IS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED

THESE RIGHT-WING GOP VETERANS WHO SMEARED JOHN MCCAIN, MAX CLELAND, JOHN KERRY AND WILL GO AFTER ANYOTHER "VETERAN" WHO GETS IN THE WAY OF THEIR RIGHT-WING NEO-CON AGENDA ARE PAINTING A STEREOTYPE THAT EVERYONE IN THE VIETNAM ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT SPIT UPON AMERICAN TROOPS RETURNING FROM THAT WAR.

THIS IS JUST ABOUT AS RIDICULOUS AS PAINTING EVERY SOLDIER WHO SERVED IN VIETNAM AS A BABY KILLER - AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

UPON ARMYDAD'S RETURN TO THE WORLD IT WAS OAKLAND, CA. IT WAS 1972. REMEMBER WE HAD NOT SERIOUSLY PULLED TROOPS OUT OF NAM UNTIL A YEAR LATER. THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT WAS STILL GOING HOT AND HEAVY, ESPECIALLY IN CALIFORNIA.

ARMY TRADITION AT THE TIME WAS EACH RETURNING NAM VETERAN WAS TO GET A STEAK DINNER "BEFORE" MOVING ON TO THEIR NEXT DUTY STATION OR HOME.

IN MY VAGUEST MEMORY, I REMEMBER THAT THE DAY AFTER MY STEAK DINNER, IT WAS ALSO TRADITION THAT THOSE WHO HAD THEIR STEAD DINNER "SERVED" THOSE WHO JUST ARRIVED.

EVERYONE WAS IN GREAT SPIRITS ABOUT JUST RETURNING TO "THE WORLD."

ARMYDAD REMEMBERS GOING TO SAN FRANCISCO AIR PORT TO CATCH A FLIGHT TO HIS HOMETOMN OF BALTIMORE, MD.

THE SF AIR PORT WAS CRAWLING FOR GIs.

I'M SORRY FOLKS BUT ARMYDAD DOES NOT REMEMBER ONE INDIDENT WHERE HE OR ANYONE ELSE WAS APPROACHED BY ANYONE MORE OR LESS SPIT UPON OR TREATED WITH HOSTILITY.

PEOPLE IN GENERAL IGNORED US (APATHY) OR WERE AFRAID OF US BECAUSE OF OUR LARGE NUMBERS.

WHEN I GOT TO BALTIMORE SAMO - SAMEO.

HONESTLY, THE ONLY HOSTILITY ARMYDAD EXPERIENCED AGAINST HIM WAS NOT FROM HIPPY ANTI-WAR PROTESTORS BUT FROM A PERSONNEL PUKE AT THE GREAT ATLANTIC AND PACIFIC TEA (A&P) COMPANY IN BALTIMORE, MD WHERE I WENT TO APPLY FOR A JOB.

WITH MY CHEST ALL PUFFED OUT AND "PROUDLY" HANDED THE PERSONNEL CLERK MY DD-214 DISCHARGE PAPERS FROM THE ARMY THINKING THIS WAS MY TICKET TO SPECIAL TREATMENT UNDER THE GI BILL.

THIS JOE COLLEGE, ALL AMERICAN BOY, CONSERVATIVE LOOKIN CREEP WHO MOST LIKELY TOOK GOD KNOWS HOW MANY DEFERMENTS FROM SERVING IN THE MILITARY SHOVES THE DD-214 BACK AT ME, LOOKS AT ME, AND SAYS,

"THAT AND A DIME WILL GET YOU A CUP OF COFFEE."

YOU SEE FOLKS BEING SPIT UPON IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER. THIS IS HOW AND BY WHOM ARMYDAD WAS SPIT UPON. THE EXPERIENCE OF TROOPS RETURNING FROM VIETNAM DIFFERED SO DON'T LET THE RIGHT-WING STEREOTYPE IN ORDER TO PAINT THE VIETNAM ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT AS THE BAD GUYS.

THERE'S A POLITICAL AGENDA HERE.

THE RIGHT WING VETERANS TODAY WANT TO HOLD WELCOME VIETNAM VETERANS CELEBRATIONS TODAY IN ORDER TO SHAME THE VIETNAM ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT. BY EXTENSION THIS IS INTENDED TO DISCOURAGE ANTI-WAR SENTIMENT TOWARD THE IRAQ WAR.

IT IS PLAYING UPON THE SAME OLD REPUBLICAN THEME = IF YOU OPPOSE THE PRESIDENT'S POLICIES IN IRAQ YOU ARE UNPATRIOTIC. YOU DONT SUPPORT THE TROOPS.

ARMYDAD SAYS "SUPPORT THE TROOPS = BRING THEM HOME FROM VIETNAM II NOW."

The Myth of the Spat-Upon Veteran
By Gabrielle Bernard, Winsted

Chad Barlow, in his impassioned support of war [Some War Is Necessary, February 14], repeats the myth that peace activists "SPAT ON our soldiers returning from Vietnam." It’s a great story, but like many right-wing myths (e.g., the story of feminists burning bras), it is simply not true.

Jerry Lembcke, an associate professor of sociology at Holy Cross College, did an exhaustive search in the process of writing his 1998 book, The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory and the Legacy of Vietnam. He found not a single case of a returning Vietnam veteran spat upon by antiwar activists. The relation between Vietnam veterans and the peace movement was generally good, since the antiwar people saw the mostly working class vets as just as much victims of the war machine as the Vietnamese peasants. We should remember that in that war, as many as 550,000 GIs went AWOL or deserted. A Harris Poll in 1971 showed that only 1% of the veterans encountered hostile reactions when they came home, and they did not think the antiwar movement was hostile to them.

RIGHT-WING GOP VETERANS WILL QUESTION THAT SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF GIs WENT AWOL OR DESERTED DURING VIETNAM ACCORDING TO B.G. BURKETT'S, "STOLEN VALOR," BUT IF THIS BE THE CASE THEN WHY DID THE GROUPS THAT WOULD EVENTUALLY BECOME VIETNAM VETERANS OF AMERICAN (VVA) SPEND A QUITE A BIT OF TIME DEALING WITH GETTING BAD CONDUCT DISCHARGED "FIXED" TO INCLUDE GETTIN A BILL PASSED BY CONGRESS? (SEE H.CON.RES.23, 1/4/77 signed into law by Presdient Jimmy Carter: Concurrent resolution endorsing the publicly declared Vietnam-era reconciliation program of the President-elect and urging the President-elect to extend that program to include all Vietnam-era selective service offenders and all Vietnam-era veterans who received less than honorable discharges or who deserted or were absent without leave during such era.) ARMYDAD

There are practically no reports of spitting during the war itself (1965-75). The first reported instance occurs during an International Day of Protest featuring "Veterans for Peace in Vietnam." Here it is the war supporters who are spitting on the pro-peace veterans. In 1965, World War II veterans who were taking part in an antiwar demonstration were reviled as "cowards" and "traitors."

Lembcke was not able to find a single photograph, news story, or FBI report of veterans being spat upon (remember, the FBI did obsessive surveillance of the peace movements). He tried to track down individuals who said they had been spat upon or witnessed it, but they "dissolved on scrutiny" and others "betrayed lack of authenticity"—which, I assume, means they lied. So what is going on here?

Vietnam veterans did not come home in bulk at the end of the war as WWII vets did; they dribbled back after their usually one-year tour of duty. As the war progressed, thousands of WWII and Vietnam vets turned against the war. The Nixon administration launched a campaign to differentiate between "good" (pro-war) vets and "bad" (antiwar) vets. Spiro Agnew, who would soon be hounded out of office as a felon, led the charge. Overnight, conservatives changed the debate from "our objectives in Southeast Asia" (anti-communism, democracy) to "supporting our men who are fighting the war." (Everyone will remember a similar shift during the Gulf War.)

AND FOLKS IF YOU WOULD GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND YOU WILL NOTE ESPECIALLY "AFTER" THE JANUARY ELECTIONS, AND WE FIND OURSELVES STAYING IN IRAQ LONGER, AND LONGER, AND LONGER, ESPECIALLY WHEN BUSH HAS TO CALL FOR CONSCRIPTION. THAT THE NATIONAL DEBATE INTENSIFIES FROM "OUR OBJECTIVES IN THE MIDDLE EAST (ANTI-TERRORISM, DEMOCRACY) TO "SUPPORTING OUR MEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE FIGHTING THE WAR." IN FACT, THE NEO-CONS WHO MANAGED TO SKIP OUT ON VIETNAM HAVE GONE ONE STEP FURTHER. THEY HAVE COMBINED THE DEBATE INTO (ANTI-TERRORISM, DEMOCRACY, SUPPORTING OUR MEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE FIGHTING THE WAR.) THUS FAR THIS APPROACH HAS BEEN EFFECTIVE BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT SERIOUSLY ASKED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO COMMIT = TO SACRIFICE TO "THE WAR EFFORT!" THEREIN LIES THE HYPOCRACY AND WEAKNESS OF THEIR DEBATE. ARMYDAD.

The single image of the spat-upon Vietnam veteran became the perfect myth of the Nixon-Agnew strategy to discredit the antiwar movement. What solidified the image of the reviled, spat-upon, and eventually crazed Vietnam veteran was the movies. It started in Jane Fonda's Coming Home, where a returning vet is verbally accosted as he returns home: "We don't want your rotten war!" Trouble is, peace activists quietly picketed soldiers going to Vietnam, not returning. But it was the 1977 movie Tracks in which we got the good pro-war veteran and the bad antiwar activist, Mark, who repeatedly spits on his opponents. Hollywood's role in creating the myth of the spat-upon veteran had begun.

SEE THE MEDIA WAS JUST AS MUCH TO BLAME FOR CREATING THE MYTH OF THE SPIT UPON VIETNAM VETERAN AS IT WAS FOR CREATING RAMBO - ARMYDAD.

And the end result was Rambo, the crazed Vietnam veteran: "But somebody wouldn't let us win. I come back and see all these maggots at the airport. Protesting me, spitting, calling me a baby-killer. Who are they to protest me? Huh?"

It's called the manufacture of consent. It is going on now and it's very scary.

IT IS GOING ON "NOW" AND IT IS VERY SCARY. YES THESE TWO RIGHT-WING GOP VETERANS WANT TO MANUFACTURE EVENTS TO "WELCOME HOME" VIETNAM VETERANS IN ORDER TO STIFLE ANY DECENT AGAINST GEORGE BUSH'S WAR IN IRAQ. IN FACT, THEY WANT TO KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE. HEAD OFF THE GROWTH OF THE ANTI-BUSH WAR MOVEMENT THAT WILL SURELY COME, ESPECIALLY WITH "THE DRAFT," AS THEY "GET EVEN WITH" THE VIETNAM ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT. ARMYDAD.

WE DON'T NEED TO TAKE THE AMERICAN FLAG OUT AND BURN IT. THESE FOLKS WANT TO TAKE THE BILL OF RIGHTS OUT AND BURN IT.

http://www.thevoicenews.com/News/2003/0228...-re_Barlow.html

http://www.war-stories.com/spit-hurts-dodson-1969.htm

http://www.war-stories.com/welcome-home-poss-1967.htm

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Did_protes...spit_050803.htm

This is a very long and rambling post which if I read it correctly says the soldiers returning from Vietnam were not confronted for their part in supporting the war governments of Johnson and Nixon.

I don't remember it that way and we quite generally we didn't give these guys a free ride for participating in that mistake of a war. I'm proud of what we did protesting the Vietnam war, if we had not protested it the war would have just kept going, the methods we used justified the ends.

I take offense to you trying to minimize and revise the efforts we made and won't have any part in a revisionist movement, if you want to be a revisionist go join the nazis, they already have a good story going about the holocaust.

IN THE SPIRIT OF TRANQUILITY, HARMONY, PEACE, AND BROTHERLY/SISTERLY LOVE = OK ARMYDAD

I ALMOST RESPECT YOUR OPINION. I'M LOOKING UNDER ME FOR MINE TO SEE IF IT IS STILL THERE.

JUST TOOK MY MEDS, SO I'LL KEEP IT SHORT TIL THE NEXT POST

The Bush administration and their people have done our troops a disservice by implying that being opposed to the Iraq invasion is tantamount to not supporting the troops. This is a set up for conflict with returning soldiers.

More than half the people that I know were against going into Iraq from the beginning. Others either still think it was the right thing to do or originally supported the invasion have now changed their minds. I work in the city, live in the country, and run across people of all ages and races all week long. I have never heard a SINGLE PERSON say a word against the soldiers whether they supported the invasion or not.

That being said, over time I am apprehensive about a repeat of difficulties that troops will have when they return home--similar to Vietnam. When soldiers come home they are often understandably defensive about the war. They will encounter people who will be correspondingly defensive about their opposition to the war. It sets up some real conflict between the two. It's human nature.

We don't ask this question much about Gulf War I or Afghanistan because for the most part the nation supported those actions. We are divided on Iraq. It is asking too much to expect that people can disregard their opinions about something like invading another country.

Let's hope our society is mature enough to keep this from getting messy again.