After the nasty Swift Boat Swines attacked Kerry, aided throughout the entire campaign by a complacent media; after all the evidence presented that point to fraud before, during and after the election; and after four years of watching an un-elected president rip democracy and lives apart, I will not get over a stolen election. Too often I've heard the call to move on prefaced by a "well yes, voter suppression and irregularities occurred, but they were not enough to overturn the election." Voter suppression is illegal and that's good enough for an investigation. I can't ignore the rest. BTW where is the clarion call for candidate Rossi in Washington to move on?

Less we forget how nasty and dishonest these people are, view this thread at DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...ress=203x297765

Here are some of the reasons I refuse to move on:

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http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...showtopic=16127

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http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...showtopic=16031

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http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...showtopic=16030

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http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...showtopic=16030

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http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...showtopic=15855

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http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...showtopic=15645

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http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...showtopic=15591

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http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...showtopic=15492

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http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...showtopic=15449

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http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...showtopic=14630

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/v...0the%20vote.mov


JMO

OH MY GOD What are we going to do? I have questioned a few professors about a petition of behalf of all decorated vets against swiftys with lots of words I can't spell.
I haven't gotten much hope. As an American I feel violated by these people.

I feel our cherished vets were violated. The treason that was commited was done by John O'Neill and his band of idiots when they infered the Navy was handing out medals to anyone who asked for them, once again taking the honor away from these guys who have been through way too much on our behalf anyway. He has questioned our military and the honor of our decorated vets.

Even though I know this petition will probably get nowhere, enough is enough. Lets fight.

Ohhh the impotance of not knowing how.

so so angry

This is amazing stuff, I have never read anything like this before. Maybe Kerry did not fight the voting problems in Ohio because of this petition. Well, Bush's family has been associated with the Nazi's and now Kerry has been associated with the Communists. Tit for tat I suppose. It's all getting a little ridiculus. I think for both of them, these issues should be left in the past. If we have our noses stuck in what happened 30, 40 even 50 years ago, then I don't think we will be able to clearly see what is happening today. Don't we have watchdog groups that would have made issues out of these politician's pasts already if necessary? I don't know, maybe I am naive, but I would think these background issues should have already been sorted out by now. If they weren't, whoever didn't take care of either one before now was just waiting to use it later as political ammunition. This in itself is dishonest and disrespectful to the American people and could be part of our problem in politics right now.. If there were that big of a problem with either one's background, they wouldn't be running, period end of story. I really don't want to waist my time believing in either one if they can't get these lies sorted out. I do think both of them should be coming forward and disproving all allegations against them, if at all possible in the current circumstances. Otherwise everyone will just assume that the accusations carry some weight. I find the information in the petition against Kerry just as disturbing as the information about Bush's family association with the Nazi's. Honestly without having confidence in the records, since it looks like a bunch of political games, you just have to go with it and try to make some sense of it on your own. I am just going to keep my moderate tone, keep my eyes open, and try not to listen to any amount of extreme retoric from either side. I mean, we as Americans can be smart about the way we support our government. We do have enemies out there and it is all too possible that the extreme ends and voices from either side of government are not coming from an American value source. I mean, what true red blooded American would want to harm our country in the way that it has been harmed by partisianship and the like? When I read these type things, I simply tell myself that no amount of disinformation can keep me from believing in my country. I support the troops in Iraq I respect the office of the President of the United States and believe in a fair and democratic form of governing. The confusion doesn't really matter, the only thing that matters is the truth, justice, and the American way, it is still out their somewhere in the middle of both political spectrums, and that is what will ultimately set us free.

It's garbage

) It doesn't seem to verify email addresses before adding your name to the list.

2) It lets you specify either 1 or 2 signers per email address. I suppose that's because docile freeper-chicks always vote how their husband says she should vote.

So, now Santorum Shitstain has signed the petition, too. Shitstain@spreadingsantorum.com

About the accusation against John Kerry and the suit against the Ohio lawyers:



The two cases of accusation: the petition against Kerry and the suit against the lawyers in Ohio seem so bizarre that at first I wondered if they were real. The Republicans could have just said that everybody had wildly exaggerated instances of voting problems, and blame the problems on inefficient county governments, and bury it. (After all, the media was already burying it.)

But now, we enter a new phase: just think! Other countries have candidates who must reside in other countries than their own because their own country is not a democracy. Now, in America, it is considered against the law to oppose a candidate, or to challenge him for what certainly looks like voting irregularities? There is a big difference between calling attention to irregularities and treason. We have been complaining for all of November 2004, December 2004, and most of January 2005 that John Kerry has said almost nothing about voter fraud (and was not even present in Congress on January 6th), but because he put one little "me too" on one lawsuit, he is now being attacked... and for treason! Treason is a capital offense, for which false accusation or false arrest would be a very serious offense, and cannot be taken lightly, or ignored by the press or by the lawyers.

Furthermore, if I put my name and address on a petition, I speak as a private citizen. Congressman Conyers asked questions that are perfectly reasonable as a member of the House Judiciary Committee, but as a member of the minority Party in Congress, Conyers only could ask questions, not demand appearances at a hearing. But a petition of the kind that Cheney, Frist, and Hastert have signed directly involves them in the accusation, which means that, as public officials, even if these were the only names on such a petition, the Justice Department must start an investigation, which could indeed lead to arrests, and then a well-publicized defence of Kerry. As a leading part of the Executive branch of government, Vice-President Cheney alone would have the power to start an investigation. As the heads of the majority Party in both the Senate and House of Representatives, Frist and Hastert could hold hearings with the power of a trial. This is at least as serious as all the voting "irregularities." If this petition goes nowhere (which it cannot, because the seriousness of the charge at least will need to be answered), then the Republicans might rest in America's ignorance of the whole matter. But, if hearings start in the Senate and House, and a Justice Department investigation is conducted, it will be impossible to bury on the back page (or in the trash). The Republicans have created a boomerang of publicity for voter fraud: they will be helping to publicize the entire situation sooner than 2006.

OMG, you are way too funny! I'll go and do the same... have to think of a catchy name for my fake husband!

Well said (your entire post)! This part is what makes me so angry, especially after the Swift Boat Swines.

They must really be worried about John Kerry. Are they trying to discredit John Kerry before he can expose them?

WTF is wrong with these people!
Too many spurs up their a**.

A little oops...
The accusation against Kerry had to do with his anti-Vietnam-war activity of 1970 and 1971, and was a petition which began to be circulated in October of 2004, promising to begin these investigations on November 3rd 2004. It is a little oops, because such accusations are still very serious, and indicate that the freedom of speech to say anything criticizing the words and actions of government is suddenly treason; even more serious that such an accusation could be made for very public anti-war statements by Kerry that occurred 34 years ago, not any secret activities which could in any way have aided an enemy (in otherwords, denying Kerry the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution). Such a petition is still posted on a conservative website, with now over 190,000 signers; and, since it promises to begin the investigation on November 3, 2004, it still threatens the career, citizenship, and freedom of John Kerry, and still must be taken as either very damaging libel and restriction of the First Amendment, or as another instance of harrassment of the Democrats and an attack on the two-Party system of government. And it still may result in the Republicans providing us with free press coverage... Because if they pursue it, the entire thing will be shown to be ridiculous, and if they don't pursue it, it is an historical reminder of abuse of power which may be brought as evidence in any future libel or other kind of suit by Kerry.

For one thing this may not be real. I'll bet some neo-con planted it here. Also, they probably saw that we had a petition to impeach Bush and decided to get back at us. What are your thoughts?

There are FBI reports of Kerry when he was part of the VVAW. Nothing there. You can read some at http://paperlessarchives.com/

For months all I saw were posts about his secret trip to Paris and treason. Still haven't figured out where they came up with treason. When he gave his testimony in '71 he told them he went to Paris.

If anyone thought he was guilty of treason don't you think they would have really checked it out before he became a Senator or if they found it out afterwards they would have thrown him out.

This has to be a spoof. There is nothing in the legal system to honor somebody's phoney pertition. Somebody did this just to p*ss people off.

This is so assinine that I'm astounded anyone is actually falling for it. The Nixon administration tried very hard to find something on Kerry, and they couldn't. The FBI was investigating and following him during the time period in question. If they had any evidence of anything even remotely treasonous, they would have acted it on it then. This is pure Bush*t.

Background on the F.B.I. in that era: There were so many stories being circulated by the F.B.I. at that time, among them planted information about members and friends of civil rights and anti-war groups, that it is very difficult if not impossible to tell fact from fiction. And, there were so many agents planted in organizations, not only to watch them but also to discredit them, that it is very hard to know what, if anything happened. (In one organization that had dwindled in size, the members found out that they were all government agents from different departments of government; which was one reason why, later, it was decided that the C.I.A. would only cover foreign intelligence.) Kerry, at that time, noted that Hubbard may not have ever served in Vietnam (perhaps it was easy to see through Hubbard), and it was Hubbard, not Kerry, who talked about meeting with North Vietnamese in Paris, and very publically, as though to discredit the organization. Kerry was attacked for having "political ambitions," when it was most obvious at that time that one way to bring peace was to have more members of Congress who cared about peace; so those who were critical of Kerry for having political ambitions (such as Hubbard) may have had an agenda actually to stop the peace movement. A large anti-war group during 1970 and '71 would have been a primary target for the kinds of co-intel-pro that made Nixon and his friends notorious. Such protest groups were also usually not well organized; like this blog and others, they were made up of many individuals, and getting things to happen was more or less like herding cats; nobody was organized enough to create any sort of clandestine operation; the larger the "movement," the more everything was public or at least witnessed by several others of varying opinions and loyalties. I was a young adult during that era, and I remember the great amount of libel that was thrown at anybody who cared about either civil rights or peace.

Nevertheless, if a frustrated young soldier, decorated for valor and service, protesting both the execution of the war and its necessity, had spoken out about it, tried to bring attention to it, and even gone to the city where the peace negotiations were and tried to push for peace, that in no way could have caused us to lose the war. Nor does it mean that in any way that Kerry could ever have been called a communist, with an interest at that time in becoming a member of Congress and working within the American political system. It was the generals and decision-makers in Washington D.C. who put unprotected swift-boats up rivers, and did not bother to find out the history of the French colonies in Vietnam, who lost the war. So many American soldiers were deployed, not only the many who lost their lives, that a few protesters really would have made no difference whether or not the entire war was won or lost. It was not as though Kerry or his family had any association with Vietnamese, Chinese, or other players before or during the war in Vietnam, or anything to do with policy in the execution of that war. Compare this to the Bush family business's close and decades-long association with the Binladen family, and there is no comparison.

It's not about falling for it or the fact that it's bogus. The claims leveled against Kerry during the campaign were bogus, yet media repetition validated them for some people. I'm just pointing out the nasty nature of these nuts and the danger they represent.

Thank you edowling.

Speaking of the Swifties

Bush Sworn-In, Swift Boat Vets Glad It's Not Kerry

By John Crawley

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/n..._swiftboat_dc_3

Honest to God, there were people here in Central Texas who claimed the only thing they knew about Kerry was that he was a war protestor. Since the ads didn't air here, they got them third hand and claimed that Kerry made up his whole war experience. It made me insane that the media, by indiscriminately covering the swiftboaters, gave credence to a blatant lie!

The petition was dated Oct 2004, before the election. The pond scum were probably going to use it if Kerry got elected.

We need to stop being so nice. We need to start beating these buttheads at their own game.

These people are evil, mean, nasty and scary. I agree, it is time to stop playing nice with these men. Thanks alot Ms. Cahill and Mr. Shrum.

I think their petition relates to the 'advice' Kerry gave to the Vietnamese in '70. They've been trying to pull this off for a long time. I don't think they're going to have much luck.

That is exactly what I said. Someone better tell the Freepers that it is a crime to put Chaney's name and some other officials down on paper when it is not true. They could get in serious trouble with the law.

Especially when Honoia Jane Fonda is still running around free. We have Neo-cons on this blog putting this Shitzer stuff in here.

Democrats had better wake up and realize who the real enemy is. Most Americans had no clue that the Swift Boat Swines have been after Kerry since the 70s. They popped up out of nowhere with the MSM giving them an air of legitimacy that a lot of people bought into their lies. I've been doing a lot of surfing on the internet and some of the stuff I've come across from the neocons and morons that support them is scary; some of it utterly repulsive. And most of the time I'm clicking on it by accident. This morning I when to look into the East St. Louis arrests reported on Yahoo, I came across only a handful of references and the only one that provided any insight into the crooked nature of these people was a link to the freeper blog. I came across one of the most repulsive things I've ever seen in my life, that I am actually crying typing this. I can't believe how sick these people are and I can't stand the fact that they get away with spewing lies and promoting intolerance. No rational person, Democrat or Republican, would ever succumb to this level of hatred.

We can close our eyes and pretend that this stuff doesn't exist, but that's what gave these extremists the power to corrupt the process in an insidious way. It's bad enough they dominate the financial power structure and thereby the power structure of our capitalist society. With such powerful backing and operating as a subculture, the neocons have managed to infiltrate and influence outcomes at every level of governance. Heck, we're debating whether to strike evolution and replace it with creationism in school texts.

These people are playing not to win, but to destroy and dominate.

Thank you for your post, that is the point, even if they have no legal ground to stand on we need to do something. They are monsters.