After going back and re-reading many posts from the vets here, I’m left wondering how many of you support Bush on this war.
Let us say it right here, flat out, state your opinion, do you support this war in Iraq. Or are you like me, I did not support the idea of the war, I believe we went in to Iraq for a pack of lies put out by the war mongering draft dodging administration. For every reason, this war is wrong. But now were are stuck in the middle of the civil war that we generated, we are getting our people killed for geo-political reasons that have no meaning. I believe we need to get out just as fast as reasonably possible.
Or are you like my Nam vet brother who says, “declare victory and bring the troops home today”. There is nothing to be gained by staying any longer.
So you either think all was well with the way Bush took us to war or you think we should be doing what, hunting down Bin Ladin, try to bring peace to central Africa, confront Iran, Korea, or screw the world, we should just take care of ourselves.
I would like to hear from all you vets, for the war or against the war?

Methinks we already had this discussion target='_blank'>here and I, for one, see no potential for good things happening by rehashing it again, although I'm sure those wishing another forum for maligning people with whom they disagree might feel otherwise, eh?

Methinks that some of these fine vets are tired of the diluted and polluted opinions of some of these other vets, I’m with this vf guy I want to see the responses to the direct questions. No more beating around the “bush”.
This is an immoral and illegal war that has cost America to many lives and too much treasure. Our president is a failure because he was not smart enough to prevent this war. Just as bad is the fact that this president has about half of America believing his lies.
I’m a 3 tour Nam vet who says, war should be the last resort to keep an enemy from creating havoc in your homeland. All possible efforts should be made to prevent any war. We are well enough equipped to prevent any attacks on our homeland so long as our leadership is not asleep at the wheel as they were on 9-11 01. We should not be watching Americans die simply as a result of their presidents failures.

read your highlighted thread there flyman, you couldn't stay on topic there either, you pro war or anti war, support Bush or not.

Gee, 'twould seem we be much alike in many ways, eh? While I agree with much of what you say, I'd respectfully disagree with some of it. Methinks I was as clear as I care to be in target='_blank'>this thread, so really see no reason to rehash it again for your edification.

Methinks I'll happily go now to play in my sandbox and you can go play in yours. Judging by this and other examples I'm sure I'll respectfully disagree with at least some of what you say if our paths cross again, eh? Good bye!

I support it. I did not support being lied to by so many to get us there. If they had have told me the truth, straight out, I would have supported it. I just don't like being lied to. That said, I believe we are creating a good thing in Iraq. I also believe that Bin Laden and Al Qaeda want us to fail, and have used all of our retreats from Iran, Lebanon, Somalia ect...to show their supporters that we can be beaten easily because we will never take any casualities. I believe this is proving them wrong, and it will demoralize all opponents of democracy, and show them that democracy can flourish in the middle east (people are not too "primitive" to handle it) and that we will stick it out!

I do not support this war.

Anyone who has been in war would NOT pick it as the first course of action. It was a completely WRONG course of action in this instance.

This is an illegal war.

Rummy knows. That's why he wouldn't set foot in Germany.

WAR - as a political tool - is NOT an option for a CIVILIZED nation.

Thank you, I agree

Back during the buildup to war I confess I bought Bush's story hook, line, and sinker. That's right- me and Britney Spears.

I followed the news commentators and the buildup to war as the Administration sent their people on the news shows and made their case about Sadaam and his Weapons of Mass Destruction. I fell for the photoshop simulation stuff that Colin Powell showed the UN. I thought those pictures were real. All the stuff the Republicans began to deny they ever said once it became clear that none were there in the first place.

It was only later when it started to sink in that the American public had been manipulated and used to make the President's cronies rich with the no-bid contracts. That there were no WMD in Iraq and Sadaam was just another tin pot dictator in the third world who posed no real threat to the US.

At that point I began to ask questions and the more the truth came out the more angry it made me.

And I haven't forgotten the way they keep changing the story to find another excuse about why we are there. Lets see WMD, no not that, now Links to terrorism, no none of those, Sadaam was a bad guy, OK but so are a lot of these dictators, now it's to spread freedom and democracy to the world at the point of a gun. How noble.

I think it's great that we have been able to salvage an election out of this mess in Iraq.

It still isn't worth 1500 American lives and 200 billion dollars of our children's money.

And agree what mommadona has posted above 100% - right on momma!!!

To really get behind this you would have to assume that we were lied too so the adminstration could pursue thier real agenda to free the Arab world of tyranny. This is just not the case, tyrants are and always have been the most useful "friends" the US has, why do you think we have all those years of un-broken devotion to the Saudi Royal Family? Why, when we defended Kuwait, we did nothing to foster democracy, except for lip service?

And another view from an Iraqi Woman who fled Saddam's Iraq....
Iraqi women find election a cruel joke By HOUZAN MAHMOUD


In reality, these elections are, for Iraq's women, little more than a cruel joke. Amid the suicide attacks, kidnappings and U.S.-led military assaults since Saddam Hussein's fall, the little-reported phenomenon is the sharp increase in the persecution of Iraqi women. Women are the new victims of Islamic groups intent on restoring a medieval barbarity and of a political establishment that cares little for women's empowerment.

Having for years enjoyed greater rights than other Middle East women, women in Iraq are losing even their basic freedoms -- the right to choose their clothes, the right to love or marry whom they want. Of course women suffered under Saddam. I fled his cruel regime. I personally witnessed much brutality but the subjugation of women was never a Baath Party goal. What we are seeing is deeply worrying: a reviled occupation and an openly reactionary Islamic armed insurrection taking Iraq into a new dark age.

Full article here...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/2098...iwomanvote.html

What we need is a UN force, without the taint of American occupation to undertake a humanitarian mission to bring justice for the Iraqis, not the subjugation to US "National Interests" the adminstration seeks.

I'm against it, always have been! I hope that the elections help to bring our troops home, but I have memories of this same thing from VietNam. There it only made matters worse.
There are a lot of similarities and yet there are none. The toll is in human life and no matter what happens there are serious questions to be asked and we all know where the buck stops! And who to ask.

Flydangler.... Come clean... Yes or No. Stop bullying people in this thread.

Fess up

Ditto!

You have hit the nail right on the head. Thank you so much.

War , like it or not , is a part of choices made by a nation state. Some would say we made the right choice in Iraq. If this country was told the truth about the reasons for going to war would it have happened? I do not think so. Just think about it. To create freedom in the middle east we will take 1500 deaths and 30,000 casualities and spend $200 billion. I am a vet and I am against this war because it was not necessary and based on lies. Some would say that the election in Iraq now makes it all worthwhile. Go back to 1967 and look up another election in a country called Vietnam. That election was supposed to solve all of the problems and create a solid democratic state. We do not seem to learn anything from history.

Sorry, but I think the question is moot now. We are already involved, have been for some time, and must now lend our support to those fighting, and those wounded, and those families who have suffered loss. And we must support the reconstruction . Support for the Troops is not the same as supporting thier involvement forever or agreeing with the Bush Doctrine. I think we should ask for, and expect to get, a reasonable answer as to how long we can count on being involved in this situation, and when can we expect our soldiers home.

I didn't think Doc flydangler was bullying anyone, and was pretty concise and respectful in the way he responded. In any case he won't be able to respond to you here anymore, so I'd say you'll just have to be satisfied with what he's already said.

You might want to look in a mirror and read your note to yourself if you'd like to see who is really appearing to be doing the bullying.

against it from the outset.... I was all too familiar wolfowitz, cheney and rummsfeld and PNAC and when they introduced Iraq as a threat in 2002, I knew it they were using the war on terror as a mean to an end. Rice confirmed this during her confirmation.... SHe kept on saying that it was about the "bigger" picture....

Does it matter what I (you, we) think? Seems to me the time to stand up and be counted has come and past long ago.

For those who say War is not (or should not be) a political tool, you decive yourself it always has been and will remain one for the forseeable future.

I would hope that those that say they were misled would learn to be a little more critical of the government and the press that feeds you the bulls!t.

Bringing the troops home will not make Iraqi safe for their people. It'll save a few soldiers lives... is an American Soldier's life worth more than an Iraqi's?
...... I imagine it's based on who you are.....how much you value life.. and how either death may affect your little corner of the kosmos...

Unlike Vietnam, we invaded their country and although we didn't torch buildings and riot in the streets... we did not prevent these things from occuring. We can't stay for ever... no doubt... things will probably stir up when we do....

Anyone claiming to have answers without looking deeper then the skin is selling snake oil.

I think the more relevant question now is whether we take on Syria and Iran, because that is what we are now facing. Its too late for Iraq.And actually I'm beginning to fault the Congress more than the neocons.

When our Secretary of State went out of her way to state invading Iran is not on the agenda I became immediately suspicious.

Look up under 'Iran's nuclear intentions' on another thread (Foreign policy that is) and you will see why invading Iran is a non-starter (Conterary to Syria, but they have no oil)

Yeah Congress and their rubber stamp ... talk about group think... makes for a great case study.

Both areas you mention, are viable targets, given the current ideology in the executive halls.

[quote=Sensible4all,Feb 2 2005, 11:16 AM]
Sorry, but I think the question is moot now. We are already involved, have been for some time, and must now lend our support to those fighting, and those wounded, and those families who have suffered loss. And we must support the reconstruction . Support for the Troops is not the same as supporting thier involvement forever or agreeing with the Bush Doctrine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A very sensible response. First I was, am. and will be, against the war.

IMO the most significant question is:

WHY, DID WE GO TO WAR IN IRAQ?

The 2nd most significant question is:

Does anyone really believe we will just leave with nothing to show for our involvement?

My comments are not made to confuse the issue. The original posting was a very straighforward question. I just think we should go a little deeper.

A.B.

I am a Vietnam Veteran 1968-69, U.S Army... Like John Kerry, I volunteered. And, like John Kerry I saw that the U.S. was not a positive force for good in Vietnam. However, I also witnessed many individual exceptions, because there were a lot of good guys in Vietnam who were a force for good. Those guys accomplished some good things in spite of the foul intentions of Washington D.C. and the corporate conglomerates that were in it only for the Military contracts.

I did not volunteer to go fight communism. I was 18 years old and was politically unconscious. I had my 19th birthday after six months in country. Perhaps I was like some of the young guys in Iraq today – I wanted the adventure - I got it.

…for the war or against the war?

Now? I am against it.

But, like Kerry I “voted” for it. And, like Kerry, I was also against “Desert Storm” in 1991.

But, this one… after 9/11… and considering the position we have put ourselves in with our stupid pig-headed dependence on imported oil… I felt we were “damned if did, and damned if we didn’t.”

I admit, I bought into the “shock and awe” B.S. I was still harboring a false belief that we could have won Vietnam if we would have just let the military loose to do its thing. Well, that is exactly what happened in Baghdad on March 20, 2003. We let loose the full Military force of the USA, and what a sight. Exactly what I expected – we won!!!

But, just like Vietnam… we can’t OCCUPY! Without the flowers from the people… we just can’t do it. So, now I got that out of my system. I hadn’t realized how foolish those secret feelings were… If only we let the military do its job… I must need medication, because I was holding those thoughts for over 30 years, while at the same time openly telling people, that because of what I saw in Vietnam, if I had been a South Vietnamese, I would have been a Viet Cong. (Hey guys, am I the only one?)

For years I have been saying the Germans are whores because they allow the U.S. Military to continue keeping bases in their Country. Why? We are told; the U.S. must protect its “National Interests”. Well, then I ask, why don’t we see German, French and Japanese Military bases in the USA protecting “their” national interests? Go figure!

With the help of some good friends, and forums like JohnKerry.com and CGCS I have been able to see all of this more clearly.

I think the biggest problem I had was this… After Nam, I buried it. The day I was discharged from the Army, after I got off the base, I went into a public restroom, changed cloths, and walked over the dumpster and threw in my duffle bag, my military ID, and everything connecting me to the U.S Army. I didn’t talk to anybody about Vietnam until years later when Oliver Stone produced “Platoon”. Too many people were telling me the movie was “anti-American” so I went to see it. Whoever wrote the script was there. It got me thinking about Nam again.

Like I said, I was opposed to Desert Storm, but it did something to me. For the first time in my life I felt “Proud” of our Military. It occurred to me that maybe that was how the WWII generation felt. I liked the feeling. I bought it.

After 9/11 our Nation came together like never before in My Life. Again, that must have been how the WWII generation felt. I liked seeing George Jr. and Tom Daschle hug each other after 9/11. Kind of made me feel like… An American.

So, part of me did not want to let that “group hug” go. I detested George Jr. before 9/11. But, like most Americans, I wanted to “defend” my country. Vietnam was never about “defending” anything – it was a foolish kid’s adventure. This, 9/11, it was real. More real than Pearl Harbor.

Abu Beacon asked: WHY, DID WE GO TO WAR IN IRAQ?

I just explained why I “voted” same as Kerry, but now I think the real reason may have been because some “foolish kids” in Washington, D.C. had never experienced the “adventure” of war, so they wanted their turn.

However, I do believe that if the USA were not dependent on foreign oil we would have no “National interests" in the Middle East. There is absolutely no possibility that we will ever “liberate” the Sudan… unless oil is discovered under their sand.

SFC White.. To answer to your question, I value an American life much more than another life. That is only because we must choose because Bush put us there. If I had my choice no one would die since the war would not have happened.

First, IMO we are not going to war with Iran or Syria unless one of those nations does something so incredible that war would be inevitable. I support our presence in Iraq until Iraqi's can provide their own security, and that we should concentrate our efforts almost completely in that direction.
That our continued effort to rebuild the infrastructure is a waste of time beyond perhaps providing security for letting Iraqi's rebuild their own infrastructure. The test is simple, when water and electricity services approach pre-war levels, then the infrastructure rebuilding is well on its way.
I look at mid-east oil supplies across the whole region and not as a nation by nation relationship because of OPEC. World markets and availability set prices. I believe that iraq needs to be allowed to control its own oil resources completely, with coalition forces helping to provide security for the production network. This way, Iraqi's can make their own priority decisions on where their own resources go in the rebuilding process, to make their own deals.
But, whether flawed or not, rigged or not, elections have been held. It is time to truly internationalise the process, and until we internationalise the process, we cannot set a timeline for massive troop scaledowns. Until the Bush administration moves to internationalise the process, we are stuck there, and until the Bush administration works seriously to involve other nations in both the security and economic arrangements, not enough other nations will participate.
Other nations we need to help will not participate enough until we make it clear that we will eventually leave or nearly leave (leave some bases intact if those arrangements can be worked out).
I do not believe that we are anywhere near a place that we can declare victory and pull out. But, I believe it is unrealistic to believe that the coalition as it now stands, with the slow going on rebuilding the security forces and the rebuilding of the Iraqi infrastructure, that we can do the job if the status quo continues.
I will not take the bait as whether this war was totally unjustified. War, strictly for political reasons is wrong, and that point is important. And even if the election wasn't the greatest, we've got to give the keys to somebody.
We cannot stay there forever and hostilities will continue as long as we stay because we do not have enough troops there to Occupy and disarm the countryside completely. It is incredibly naive to believe that the US can pacify Iraq, it did not work in Viet Nam, and it won't work here.
And it has become clear that Bush and Co. will not leave Iraq without political pressure. We have seen the allies step up to help convince Iran to work completely with I.A.E.A. and freeze their weapons program. While those efforts haven't been completely successful, it shows that those nations believe in developing the necessary regional security arrangements needed for the US to pull most or all of our troops out of Iraq.
The world is probably a safer place without Saddam, and the world will be even safer when Bush and Company take the steps necessary to end our days as occupiers of Iraq by building the same type of international coalition that won the first Gulf War, this time to rebuild the peace. Without, at minimum, a serious commitment to establishing a timeline for U.S. withdrawal, we will be there at present troop levels for all of the rest of the Bush term, and into the term of the next president. A new meaning to chant "Four More Years".

How can anyone support any American money going to Iraq for any reason, when at the same time we are going to close VA facilities, start charging our vets a co-pay for meds and now we are going to start charging a 250 dollar deductible for vets to maintain their healthcare. There will be a concerted effort to kill as many federal social programs as possible, while the whitehouse tries to divert your attention somewhere else your grandkids are going to be overwhelmed with debt.
Srew the war and any or all of the so-called reasons for it. Because the Iraqi people have shown some response to their own needs doesn’t justify not one American death. Bush is an illegitimate president running an illegitimate war and nothing can change that fact, so you better remain vigilant. The fact that your president is looking for another chump nation to go pick on just demonstrates how closed minded these idiots are. Notice though, he targets nations who will provide very little resistance. Remember what Eisenhower said, and he is just as right today, “never trust the military industrial complex”.
I believe it is tragic that this president has needlessly wasted over a thousand American souls, and has maimed over ten thousand Americans all in the name of bottom line money. He should be impeached, sent to Cuba for life and given the same treatment the prisoners there have received.

vfquenley, well said!

There is always a better way than war. If you have time to find a better way is questionable. Preemptive wars are wars of choice.

Was always against it! The thing to watch is what we do when(if?) asked to leave by the "elected" Iraqi government!

Watch the excuses as to why we MUST stay!

It was always Operation Iraqi Liberation = OIL, MONEY, Drain the Beast (Entitlement programs)!

Everything else is BUSH*T!!

I opposed the Iraq war, and the only thing to be gained from Iraq, is that when Bush tries to sell the Syrian war, or Iranian war, we won't be fooled again.

I did not support the incursion for many reasons, but now that we are there, I want to see a successful and quick end.
In other words!...I do support the war and the troops fully.

Sarge


War is a political tool or economic tool Sarge ? Lets lay the cards where they belong on the "SHRUB" fiasco in Iraq. The American people and the world were plain free-kin BS'D by the "SHRUB" for flexing the American military strength in Iraq. Pure BS at its best Sarge. For that I think the "SHRUB" regime should be held accountable for all crimes and destruction they caused in Iraq because of the propaganda and swill they sold to the people of this country and to the world.

I hear this BS all the time Sarge - "Unlike Vietnam" ! Bro' there are beaucoup like the Nam that is going down in Iraq. Same - same Sarge and don't kid yourself about it. Beaucoup comparisons between the two. We as a Nation and people learned Jack Diddly Squat from Vietnam and here we go again. He_l there were elections in the Nam like this Democracy swill that the "SHRUB" is revvin' up in his precious fiasco in Iraq. Where did that get this Country and its G.I.'s? A big black Granite Wall in D.C. with 58,000 + names on it. VA hospitals backlogged with the wounded from the Nam. And still beaucoup of families feeling the effects of the Nam because of this country's BS. What the he_l else was gained and what will be gained by our invasion of Iraq?

Is an American G.I.'s life, worth more than an Iraqi? I'll bite on that Sarge - He_l Yeah it is worth a lot more. Why? Because it is an American, and this War has no reason other than the "SHRUB'S" power and profit trip. Plain and simple to figure that puppy out. An American Troops life is of far more value than an Iraqi to this Nam Vet, Sarge.

He_l if the big time "War Prez" wanted to go after some bad guys and show he is macho man, he_l N.Korea told the world they have WMD and so did Iran. But are we the policemen of the world? Do we have WMD? LOL - So what example do we as a nation set? I'll go along with you on one thing Sarge, there is beaucoup "Snake Oil" being sold and bought. But again another Memorial in D.C. is not the answer Bro'.

Time for this Nations Citizens to wake the he_l up and smell the BS being sold to them by the "SHRUB" and his band of brothers. American G.I.'S lives and limbs are far more valuable than BS Sarge, and you know it.

I support our troops completely, but I am against this war until we have leadership that can proove they are doing this for the right reasons. They seem unable to keep our enemies from convincing everyone in the world that we were wrong to do this. I think this shows a weakness of our leadership and a fundamental misunderstanding of military operations, probably because most of our leadership have not been in combat situation and they don't understand how to win. 75% of any battle is psychological and since they can't keep their critics quiet enough to convince us they are doing the right thing, they shouldn't be assuming they have the abilities to make this a success.

If you are going to go fight, make sure you are going to win! People are dying here and we don't want our brave soldiers in harms way if this isn't a good cause.

DrWolfy


Your asking for a lot on the above LOL. Aye Mate!!! Don't think it will happen but I could be wrong mate! LOL---Be well

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU MOMMADONA!

Pkemp



I hear what you jotted down in your post and get the gist of what you posted. But what is this BS above - who guarantee's a win ? Yeah people get aced and fudged up bad in war- thats what happens - win or lose. And trust me, it does not hurt any less if you win to the person that gets greased or the family of the Vet. War sux, plain and simple. And give me a good cause for our G.I.'S to get greased? One of those things Pkemp, you had to be in one to appreciate the value. LOL - Hang tough -

What part of the notes indicating that Doc flydangler is no longer with us don't you understand Tom? You folks can keep trying to bait him all you want, but he still won't be able to respond.

I don't think Doc misses them, gunny!

My two cents. I'm an Army Vietnam vet 1967-68. I was against this war from day one and nothing has changed. To me, it is like a replay of Vietnam. In the end we will leave, Iraq will go Islamic, thousands of Americans will be dead and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis will be dead FOR NOTHING! Same, same Vietnam. We need to get out as quickly as we can and don't look back. I feel for the Iraqis, but we did them the favor of getting rid of Saddam. They need to handle the rest of it.

The only problem is that all those senators have already voted to authorize the president to attack other countries and Cheney's stooge doesn't have to worry about being re-elected. What's to stop him?

Bro'

What the he_l notes are you talking about Bro' ? "You folks can keep trying to bait him all you want, but he still won't be able to respond".

Bro' are you saying Flydangler died? If so I am sorry for his friends and family . Personally I did not like him, just being straight here Bro'. And about any notes-- I got sheet Bro'. Am I sorry that he is gone? I'll be straight again Bro' - he_l no. Again I did not like him at all. Hang Tough - and as far as baiting him, LOL - he was the biggest fisherman out there. Thats all I got to say about Fly' Bro' ! Don't lay any guilt trip on my azz Bro' -- that crapola won't stick here on that subject ---trust me.

He did? When did that happen? Are you sure? How did you find this out?


Why, because he had a different opinion of the war than you did? He was pretty specific about what he thought about it and why in the "Background" thread in the Afghanistan & Iraq subforum, but rather than refute a single point he laid out all you did was post a bunch of crapola and diss him. He, on the other hand, wrote that he respected you for your dedication and zeal on veterans' issues, even when he thought your specifics might be a little faulty. The fact you continue the put downs even when you say he's dead is interesting, but I guess I'm not surprised.

BTW, the notes are there! Someone else even provided a link in another thread, you do know how to follow a link, don't you?

I also had some ideological differences with Flydangler, he did hold the natural ability to piss me off, not that that is a bad thing in to it’s self. I went back and read through several threads and found his support of Bush to be something I couldn’t agree with. He came off as an unquestioning supporter of this illegal war. It was like what ever the commander and chief wants, no questions please.
On other subjects we got along fine, I liked talking about famous fly fishing spots.

He was supportive of Bush? In what way? I keep seeing people say this, but when I go review his notes I only find where he occasionally says the administration sometimes does the right things, even if for the wrong reasons, and in other notes he criticizes things like what they did and are doing in the occupation of Iraq. I've asked others to point out specifics, but they never do. He even says he voted for Kerry, even though he found a lot of problems with him. Could you be more specific please?

If it's really the case that he supports Bush then so do Democrats like Senators Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Blanche Lincoln, Mary Landrieu, Max Baucus, and Representatives like Gene Taylor, Ike Skelton, Jack Murtha, Norm Dix, and a whole bunch of others that express an ideology very similar to his. Maybe we should just condemn them all?

As to his reasons for supporting the Iraq incursion I think, if you really read his notes, you'll admit they were for a much different reason that the administration used to sell it to the American people. Are you saying he was wrong to express his views? Do you think that all Democrats have to toe the party line, if you can even really figure out what the party line is on this subject.

Gee Tom, you seemed to forget to answer this.

I know you'll be disappointed, but he's alive, in good health and doing just fine! I still don't know where you got the idea he was dead, and you've chosen not to tell us, so I guess, in your own indomitable manner, you just made an erroneous assumption.

When I talked to him on the phone a while ago he had a good chuckle about this whole thing, and says he hasn't seen anything from you or anyone else here that would change his mind about his opinion about the war. BTW he sends his regards!

[quote=SemperFidelis,Feb 24 2005, 07:06 PM]
[/quote]
Gee Tom, you seemed to forget to answer this.

I know you'll be disappointed, but it ain't so! He's alive, in good health and doing just fine! I still don't know where you got the idea he was dead, and you've chosen not to tell us, so I guess, in your own indomitable manner, you just made an erroneous assumption.

When I talked to him on the phone a while ago he had a good chuckle about this whole thing, and says he hasn't seen anything from you or anyone else here that would change his mind about his opinion about the war. BTW he sends his regards!

[/quote]

Semper

From the way you were carrying on - beeching and moaning (LOL) Chris, I thought the Ol' Salt croaked, methinks anyway.

Hey, glad the Matey is still pushing oxygen! And glad Popeye had a good chuckle, everyone needs that, good for the soul.

As far as me changing the Ol' Salts oppinion on jack sheet, give it a rest (LOL) just would not happen. Glad to see he has a phone pal or whatever - hey maybe he'll claim his ol' VFW bar stool--never know Chris. LOL

Send the Mate my best ! LOL And Chris - relax - stress is bad dude! LOL -- Hang Tough- really had me worried there---was losing free-kin sleep Chris! LOL

Now thats what I call sticking up for your Bro' ! LOL He_l it does say Department of the free-kin Navy on U.S.M.C. pay checks. LOL Never thought of it that way Chris! Hang Tough-- Popeye would be proud of that resume you made up for him-- ! LOL Could say crapola but you already used that for my posts Bro' so will just put down -plain BS! --LOL - Hang Tough -