Very true. Our productivity, ability to collaborate, etc. often depend on our ability to discriminate among our own and other's emotions and use that information to figure out what to do next. When we have little knowledge of emotions, combined with a fear of them, we end up behaving in very maladaptive ways. We don't do much as a society to teach children about their emotions, that they don't need to fear them, just experience, acknowledge, interpret, think, and finally act. I forget the word for not being able to label one's emotions. But I think a lot of people have varying degrees of this. This may be evolutionarily beneficial to not get too overwhelmed in our emotions. May be a case of too much is detrimental, too little is detrimental.

Cool! So, exercise releases endorphins and possibly acupuncture does, too.

Naloxone is a drug they use to reverse opiate overdosage. Looks like naloxone also blocks acupuncure induced analgesia.

I don't know the studies behind the claims at the following website but it is very interesting.
http://www.drfeely.com/acupuncture/basics_3_evidence.htm



I don't know how the pituitary figures into all of this.

noradrenelinecture - never heard of this. Wonder what this is?

Dextro-naloxone

Molecules have left and right. Dextro is right. Levo is left.
Levo-naloxone blocks opiod receptors 3-4x's more effectively than dextro-naloxone blocks the receptors. Therefore it is very interesting that dextro-naloxone doesn't block accupuncture analgesia but the levo form does. Again, I haven't seen the studies these claims are based on. But sounds very interesting...

Endorphins rise in cerebral spinal fluid and drop in the brain after acupuncture analgesia - this would support the idea that the endorphin "rush" I felt was placebo while the pain relief was real??? Unless a drop in brain's endorphins leads to some other process - perhaps a rise in dopamine?

"Acupuncture analgesia shows cross tolerance with morphine addiction"

AHa! I knew this was sounding too good to be true. So does this mean we develop tolerance to acupuncture? Is it as effective in people on narcotics?

well the pituitary is the mastergland and related to several other endocrine glands
this is a major inquiry all by itself, and could certainly lead you on some interesting adventures.......suffice it to say that there is an interplay between serotonin/noradrenaline.....noradrenalinecture relates to the higher release of serontin in accupuncture as well as endorphin mechanisms.

DWB04, I'm very impressed with your knowledge base!

My education (off the cuff) with regards to the pituitary concerns only prolactin, ADH, TSH, LH, GH, etc. I guess there was a "black box" of peptides we were told about but not more than that. I'd never heard of noradrenalinecture before! Not once. Not even in passing...

Is noradrenalinecture a metabolite of something?

I'm not quite sure what you mean as to a metabolite of something?

I was wondering if it is a metabolite of another neurotransmitter? I thought it might be a metabolite of norepinephrine. Is it a hormone? Neurotransmitter? or a concept? I'm confused?

I should mention Dopamine.......it converts to noradrenaline

Noradrenaline converts to norepinephrine.....

ah I see the confusion.....noradrenalinecture is the process explaining the rise in serotonin and the endorphin release in accupuncture......

Ok here's some information related to the adrenal glands part of the endocrine system we talked about....and related to the mastergland... the pituitary


The two adrenal glands are located immediately anterior to the kidneys, encased in a connective tissue capsule and usually partially buried in an island of fat. Like the kidneys, the adrenal glands lie beneath the peritoneum (i.e. they are retroperitoneal). The exact location relative to the kidney and the shape of the adrenal gland vary among species.


Inspection of a mammalian adrenal gland that has been sectioned reveals two distinct regions, as demonstrated to the right with a sheep adrenal (click the image to flip between surface and cut views):

An inner medulla, which is a source of the catecholamines epinephrine and norepinephrine. The chromaffin cell is the principle cell type. The medulla is richly innervated by preganglionic sympathetic fibers and is, in essence, an extension of the sympathetic nervous system.


An outer cortex, which secretes several classes of steroid hormones (glucocorticoids and mineralocorticoids, plus a few others). Histologic examination of the cortex reveals three concentric zones of cells that differ in the major steroid hormones they secrete.


Despite their organization into a single gland, the medulla and cortex are functionally different endocrine organs, and have different embryological origins. The medulla derives from ectoderm (neural crest), while the cortex develops from mesoderm. The utility, if any, of having them together in one discrete organ is not obvious. In some species, amphibians and certain fish, for example, two separate organs are found.

Adrenal Medullary Hormones


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cells in the adrenal medulla synthesize and secrete norepinephrine and epinephrine. The ratio of these two catecholamines differs considerably among species: in humans, cats and chickens, roughly 80, 60 and 30% of the catecholamine output is epinephrine. Following release into blood, these hormones bind adrenergic receptors on target cells, where they induce essentially the same effects as direct sympathetic nervous stimulation.

Synthesis and Secretion of Catecholamines
Synthesis of catecholamines begins with the amino acid tyrosine, which is taken up by chromaffin cells in the medulla and converted to norepinephrine and epinephrine through the following steps:


Norepinephine and epinephrine are stored in electron-dense granules which also contain ATP and several neuropeptides. Secretion of these hormones is stimulated by acetylcholine release from preganglionic sympathetic fibers innervating the medulla. Many types of "stresses" stimulate such secretion, including exercise, hypoglycemia and trauma. Following secretion into blood, the catecholamines bind loosely to and are carried in the circulation by albumin and perhaps other serum proteins.

Adrenergic Receptors and Mechanism of Action
The physiologic effects of epinephrine and norepinephrine are initiated by their binding to adrenergic receptors on the surface of target cells. These receptors are prototypical examples of seven-pass transmembrane proteins that are coupled to G proteins which stimulate or inhibit intracellular signalling pathways.

Complex physiologic responses result from adrenal medullary stimulation because there are multiple receptor types which are differentially expressed in different tissues and cells. The alpha and beta adrenergic receptors and their subtypes were originally defined by differential binding of various agonists and antagnonists and, more recently, by analysis of molecular clones.


Receptor Effectively Binds Effect of Ligand Binding
Alpha1 Epinephrine, Norepinphrine Increased free calcium
Alpha2 Epinephrine, Norepinphrine Decreased cyclic AMP
Beta1 Epinephrine, Norepinphrine Increased cyclic AMP
Beta2 Epinephrine Increased cyclic AMP



Physiologic Effects of Medullary Hormones
In general, circulating epinephrine and norepinephrine released from the adrenal medulla have the same effects on target organs as direct stimulation by sympathetic nerves, although their effect is longer lasting. Additionally, of course, circulating hormones can cause effects in cells and tissues that are not directly innervated. The physiologic consequences of medullary catecholamine release are justifiably framed as responses which aid in dealing with stress. These effects can be predicted to some degree by imagining what would be needed if, for example, you were trapped in Jurassic Park when the power went off. A listing of some major effects mediated by epinephrine and norepinephrine are:

Increased rate and force of contraction of the heart muscle: this is predominantly an effect of epinephrine acting through beta receptors.


Constriction of blood vessels: norepinephrine, in particular, causes widespread vasoconstriction, resulting in increased resistance and hence arterial blood pressure.

Dilation of bronchioles: assists in pulmonary ventilation.


Stimulation of lipolysis in fat cells: this provides fatty acids for energy production in many tissues and aids in conservation of dwindling reserves of blood glucose.


Increased metabolic rate: oxygen consumption and heat production increase throughout the body in response to epinephrine. Medullary hormones also promote breakdown of glycogen in skeletal muscle to provide glucose for energy production.


Dilation of the pupils: particularly important in situations where you are surrounded by velociraptors under conditions of low ambient light.


Inhibition of certain "non-essential" processes: an example is inhibition of gastrointestinal secretion and motor activity.


Common stimuli for secretion of adrenomedullary hormones include exercise, hypoglycemia, hemorrhage and emotional distress.



http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbooks/pat...al/anatomy.html

http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbooks/pat...edhormones.html

so in essence what this is saying is that this release of noradrenaline(norepinephrine) registers in the brain as stress ....or pain?
So the effects of accupuncture have shown to increase serotonin and endorphins to alleviate the stress/pain.....

It's somewhat arbitrary to classify one set of emotions as psoitive and another
as negative but people do tend to do that. Maintaining an optimum level of arrousal is so important that any kind of emotion is usefull up to a point until we get too much of it. (But as my commedian friend used to say it's better to be
well a year than sick a day.) From an information processing standpoint and
from the point of view of the individual maintaining a high level of awareness
children should be taught to be accepting of whatever emotions they experience
so they learn to identify whatever is going on to generate the feelings so they can adjust their responses or change the situation if the feelings are not desirable.
Feelings provide important cues. Think of an alarm clock. It is very useful for helping you meet your need to regulate your schedule. But suppose it went off
1000 times louder than it normally does. It would be unpleasant and dangerous'
When we fail to attend to early cues of being angry or scared and make some
corrective actions in our situation the cues can become very unpleasant and
maladaptive.

When we constantly tell children don't be mad or don't be scared or even don't be too boistrous in expressing your joy we develop a non-functional culture which
further reinforces non-functional behavior patterns. Just as the self-concept
guides the individual's behavior and experience and the individual's behavior
and experience gradually modifies the self-concept, so it is with culture. The culture
guides and shapes the typical behavior of individuals and the collective behavior and experience of individuals gradually modifies the culture.

Hopefull the paradim shift we spoke of earlyer to focus on positive adaptive
healthy development will lead us to generate more "positive feelings" and coin
more "positive" words to call them. Empathy Training to identify and communicate understanding of others feelings and Assertiveness Training
to espress one's own feelings and position in situation offer promise in this regard.

Yes, that's where the confusion was. I thought it was a nerotransmitter, possibly a metabolite. Now I see that it's the process. Wonder why they call it this?

No it is not additictive, according to your article there is no tolerance build-up, in fact it said the benefits are cumulative .....It is also used for drug addiction here's the rest of the article you posted.

Acupuncture works in approximately 70 to 80% of humans and animals.
Meanwhile, we know that placebo only works 30% of the time.Acupuncture does not work all the time in all people for various reasons. Principally due to cholecystikinin (CCK). Those individuals with high CCK are poor responders to acupuncture analgesia. Good responders have less CCK. CCK blocks acupuncture tolerance, it acts in the periaquaductal gray. Animal experimentation have been done to show that poor responders may become better responders through the use of a CCK antagonist and that good responders can become poor responders by the use of cDNA, CCK gene.

Acupuncture has been shown not to be physiologically addicting.

Acupuncture is however additive and cumulative in its effects. It is more powerful after ten to fifteen treatments. Neurologically we know acupuncture works with a small mylenated fibers A delta-type III, and it does not work on larger fibers, C-fibers.

Such a wise post, rla! I'm going to use this analogy, too - feelings are like alarm clocks.

This was what concerned me:
"Acupuncture analgesia shows cross tolerance with morphine addiction" This sounds worrisome. Also, the fact that naloxone blocks acupuncture anesthesia worries me a bit. Obviously, people are not running around "jonesing" for acupuncture needles so I gather it's pretty safe.

DWB04, I've written about 3 or 4 nearly complete posts this evening and then scratched them off and started rewriting - all with regards to acupuncture, the pituitary/hypothalamus, endorphins, comparisons of alternative and western medicine, etc. etc. etc. But nothing is coming out right tonight.

I think my thoughts are still percolating and that I've got a lot of reading to do!

I'm very intrigued by this topic. Just that I find myself vascilating between curiosity regarding alternative medicine and outright hostility. I think that's a good thing. It means I'm pushing myself. But it's going to take me a while to get the right emotional and cognitive valences assigned to the various new ideas I'm learning.

Instead of ranting and raving regarding the "healing, not treating" idea, I want to think about it some more.

I guess, I want to know what does healing, not treating mean?

See Table 3 of this article in the Journal of Alternative Medicine: http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/pdfplus/1...555303771952271

here's what I posted before.....there is ongoing research with regard to chronic pain and the role of acupuncture.



From what i've been able to glean, chronic pain sufferers have conditions that are exacerbated by anxiety and stress...so current treatments do include acupunture, relaxation techniques, massage, and exercise.....in the case of patients with depression they use anti-depressants to equalize the serotonin-noradrenaline cycle.

It would seem to me that a combination of things could help, and one might not rely on just one thing....

Pain clinics regularly use acupuncture, biofeedback, hypnosis, anti-depressants (both to treat depression and some to treat what's referred to as "neuropathic" pain), anti-seizure medicines, intrathecal pumps, electrical stimulators, etc.

Where I'm getting held up is how to explain to the western half of my brain what the alternative half experienced when I had acupuncture or hypnosis. It seems I can work out of one or the other system but am having difficulty pulling them together. I guess when it gets right down to it what I'm disturbed by is the division between science and religion I feel in myself. I find that almost perpetually perplexing ever since the subject came up on this thread. Following this thread really makes my brain hurt - but in a good way.

From my experience, it's best to use a combination of the scientific and spiritual approaches. It seems this is the most effective. Integrative.

Sometimes I get on a science run and sometimes on a spirituality run. I never knew such a divide existed in me before. It does seem that to fully embrace one you have to partially ignore the other and visa versa. I've used science (even evolution) as evidence of a higher being (whatever that is - probably energy). But - well, anyway. I'm getting stuck.

I'm kind of tapped out on this subject.....but believe me I am not advocating acupuncture for people, I was simply trying to supply the best information I could
for your questions.
Some of it makes sense to me because as I read about chronic pain, the factor of emotions, anxiety and stress kept recurring......and some people become addicted to drugs like morphine etc for pain...it seems prudent to work on the possible cause of the pain in another way....

I'm glad you'r tapped out on this subject too, DWB!

maybe it would help if you didn't attach a religious tag to it......it is simply Eastern medicine........and for some people a way of living healthily.

Yes, maybe you're right.

Until later, then...

Gabrielle

Is it possible that the increase in developmental and learning disorders are attempts to adapt to our new environment?

What exactly is a spiritual approach -- one where someone says it works but you don't have a clue as to how?

All the oriental/asian practices we've imported have weird and multiple and conflicting theoretic explanations from their home turf -- energy fields, chakras, alighning with the dragon, chi (chee?).... but they've also been refined by, in some cases, thousands of years of of blind trial and error practice (meaning they, in a sense, evolved).

Is there something about Western medicine that seems blasphemous?

Interventions combining treatment modalities have better research
supported outcomes. General systems language provides the best vehicle for integrating multiple treatment modaslities because different approaches to treatment generally relate to one or another of the
sub-systems of the self-system: perceiving, conceiving,feeling,
intending and acting. If we avoid overly mechanistic, reductionistic,
dualistic language we can avoid most of the so-called subject-object,
soul-body or spiritual-material dychotomies.
(soul-body

Bill, I like your new signature line - The enemy is in your wallet. I also watched the first two episodes of The Matrix. Morpheus is indeed a cool dude!

My favorite lines:

"There is no spoon."
-- Neo



"Dodge this."
--Trinity

I will need to watch it again. Also thought of the media science discussion yesterday. Saw a show on a computer channel about DDR games - Dance, Dance, Revolution. It's a video game that involves physical action - quite rigorous physical action, actually, as the players try to beat each other or the machine in dance moves. I'd like to see more media like this developed that allow kids to get physical exercise from video games. I thought this might help childhood obesity as well as some of the behavioral problems that constant mental stimulus bombardment without physical exercise may yield.

But now to the question at hand.

Basically, there are a few explanations for why we see such a large increase in mood, behavioral, developmental, and learning disorders in children. I expect there are many more reasons I haven't heard of. But these are just a few that come to mind.

1) Reporting
2) Genetic
3) Environment
Overstimulation of neurons
4) Misdiagnosis
5) Iatrogenic

Reporting simply means we have more cases now because we are better at identifying the problem and reporting it. 100 years ago there may have been a similar proportion of children with these sorts of challenges, but we didn't have labels for them and so they were ignored, interpreted as misbehavior, strong-will, laziness, etc. and the child was whipped or otherwise punished into submission. If all else failed they were removed from the school or put in homes or state facilities for life. All those children who were put into mental hospitals for life are now remaining in their parents homes and being "mainstreamed" into the public school system. We are seeing miraculous results with many of these children thanks to the heroic efforts (and huge love) these parents and their communities have for these children. We have growing recognition and treatment, treatment lasts for lengthier times, increased media exposure and growth of grassroots organizations that provide support and education have also increased our perception that the problems have become more common than they were two generations ago.

Genetic can further be subdivided into
1) Anticipation - the pattern of inheritance in which individuals in the most recent generation of a pedigree develop a disease at an earlier age or with greater severity than do those in earlier generations. For a number of genetic diseases, this phenemonon can be attributed to the gradual expansion of trinucleotide repeat polymorphisms. Basically a trinucleotide repeat is a group of three of the bases that make up our DNA that repeat over and over again. This occurs normally in human DNA. When a triplet repeat expansion occurs the number of this repeats increases and the number of repeats often increases with successive generations and coorelates with increasing severity and decreasing age of onset, a phenomenon called anticipation. Thus genetic mutations are passed down from parent to child and show up at an earlier age in the child. Each successive generation will show signs earlier than the last and the disease will be more severe.

Anticipation (aka trinucleotide repeat polymorphisms, aka triplet repeat expansion) is seen in diseases like myotonic dystrophy, fragile x- syndrome (causes mental retardation) and Huntington's disease among others. Psychiatrists also think bipolar disorder may fit into this some how.

For example, in myotonic dystrophy, chromosome 19 normally contains a trinucleotide repeat in which the sequence CTG is repeated 5 to 37 times in unaffected individuals. A chromosome with five repeats would contain the sequence CTG-CTG-CTG-CTG-CTG. Each 3 base group codes for an amino acid that we use to make proteins with. So, the longer the triplet repeat, the longer the protein. If the protein works best with 5-37 amino acids in this area, then it starts to lose function as the triplet repeats elongate and more amino acids are added to its end. An individual with 50 to 100 repeats may be mildly affected with the disease myotonic dystrophy at a relatively late age. This individual may then transmit an expanded number or repeats to his or her offspring (ie between 100 and several thousand repeats) who may be severely affected and may present at an early age. Thus the number of repeats which can increase through the generations, accounts for the pattern of anticipation in some genetic diseases.

Fragile X syndrome receives its name because the long arms of X chromosomes in individuals with this disorder often display a characteristic elongation when cells are cultured in a folate deficient medium. Don't worry about this. It's minutia. A major feature of fragile X syndrome is mild to moderate mental retardation. Affecting apprpoximately 1/4,000 males and 1/8,000 females this X-linked dominant disease is the leading known cause of inherited mental retardation. The major mutation responsible for this disease is an expanded CGG repeate. This repeate tensds to expand from one generation to the next leading to more affected cases in more recent generations of fragile X syndrome families.

2)Natural selection of what turns out later to be pathology - anxious people probably lived longer when it was part of a day's living to encounter lions and tigers. They passed on anxiety genes. People who were impulsive, aggressive, novelty seeking, thrill seeking probably survived longer in the jungle, too. These people may have passed down more of their genes as a result of the inherent survivability benefit of being what we now call hyperactive.

In addition, medical advances have allowed the survival of many children who would have died two generations ago. Many of these children have severe illnesses that affect their brain's development and end up with learning disabilities, pervasive developmental disorders, etc. Obstetrical complications during late pregnancy or delivery can result in this spectrum of disorders. Children who would have died during birth are often now the proudest success stories of modern medicine. But the insult to their brains in some cases is permanent.

Environment - lead levels in gas emissions, old paint, etc. are coorelated with ADHD. Perhaps other environmental toxins are involved. Malnutrition, worldwide, is the number one cause of ADHD. Drug abuse, alcohol abuse, cigarette smoking, etc. in mothers also contributes to developmental disorders, behavioral/emotional disorders, etc. in their offspring. Overstimulation by our technological advances, interconnectivity, super fast stream of sound-bytes also plays a part. I don't think our brains are wired for the speed of information we are trying to process each day. I think the over-stimulation of the neurons may, in some instances, be toxic to the brain's neurons. You see this in seizure disorders, where the neurons who are abnormally stimulated/active start to burn themselves out and die off. This is pure theory on my part that this same thing happens when our brains are overstimulated by our environment - especially the media. But my "intuition" is that by simply slowing down the literal "frames" in children's television programing we might slow down their brains. Seriously, turn on Disney and turn off the volume. Watch how long the camera frame stays on any individual frame. At most 2 or 3 seconds. This is not how our brains are meant to function. Look at your room now, observe. Just one frame. You can rotate your head to change it but it's not artifically changed for you by the "medium." That's how our brains are meant to perceive visual images.

Misdiagnosis. Super common. Hyperactivity is normal in kids. Dyslexia, also, has been pathologized to a certain extent as we over emphasize book learning as we move from an agricultural to a technological society. 100 years ago a dyslexic might not even know they had dyslexia! It might not have affected their quality of life at all. Now it's essential to be able to read, and read fairly quickly, with good retention. Teachers who are underpaid and over stressed themselves don't want to deal with "problem" children. They don't want to admit sometimes they're the problem. And consequently misdiagnose and label kids as ADD, Conduct disordered, etc.

Finally, I'd add a last category called "iatrogenic." Meaning doctors caused it. We can put kids on stimulants who are really bipolar and cause them to start kindling their bipolar disorder, etc.

All things are possible, "they say" what you've asked seems more maladaptive, however, and these results could also be easily attributed to lack of quality education, environmental pollutants, poor physiologic development, lack of proper stimulation, metabolic disturbances, lack of proper nutrition, improper assessments by professionals, as well as a host of other factors......

looks like we came to some of the same answers Gabe!

Was just reading your post and coming to that very same conclusion myself!

OK, time to get off here and head out to the Lowes. I'm going to repaint this place before I start back to work in May! Today, I have the mind of an artist and the walls are my canvas. Could be exciting! Anybody else out there ever paint with a 5 year old assistant? I think this is gonna get messy!

I also wonder if results could be skewed by the number of children given ritalin when it was fashionable to do so.....

cya later!!! have a good day......

Gabrielle and DWBO4

I'm certain that part of the developmental and learning disorders could be the result of misdiagnosis and the negative effects of our environment. Much of the misdiagnosis may be the result of profiteering drug companies.

I was also considering society may be failing to recognize its own new specialized needs and under-utilizing what may be specialized abilities for a new environment. Maybe the perceived "disorders" are just "re-orders" or even adaptations.

It seems that education tries to put everyone in the same learning modes, but maybe it was never meant to be that way. Maybe these are specialized humans adapting to a faster-paced, media rich, critical-detail-oriented, technology-driven society, and complex society.

The face-to-face social skills are less needed. We are definitely more introverted than ever before. Look at how anti-social the corporate cube farms are. Maybe the lack of face-to-face social skills are being displaced by the specialized abilities in the form of what appears to be developmental and learning disorders.

Certainly some things worth thinking about, Bill.....it is a high tech world.......and there is a lack of quality social interaction .......some futurists like Alvin Toffler spoke about the impact of the information age years ago....and I'm sure some of those things factor in when considering a better approach to the adaptive skills that may be required of us in order to make sense of our world.

I do think though that there are many factors we can trace to the problem of learning and development...... however, I do also understand where you are going with this in terms of considering adaptive vs maladaptive syndromes......we have often thought of groups of people as being sub par and failed to factor in other information.....take intelligence tests for one......the earliest ones neglected other skills.

The Social Learning Theory of
Julian B. Rotter

The main idea in Julian Rotter's Social Learning Theory is that personality represents an interaction of the individual with his or her environment. One cannot speak of a personality, internal to the individual, that is independent of the environment. Neither can one focus on behavior as being an automatic response to an objective set of environmental stimuli. Rather, to understand behavior, one must take both the individual (i.e., his or her life history of learning and experiences) and the environment (i.e., those stimuli that the person is aware of and responding to) into account. Rotter describes personality as a relatively stable set of potentials for responding to situations in a particular way.

Psychopathology and Treatment. Rotter is very opposed to the medical model conception of mental disorders as being diseases or illnesses. Rather, he conceives of psychological problems as maladaptive behavior brought about by faulty or inadequate learning experiences. For Rotter, the symptoms of pathology, like all behavior, are learned. Therefore, treatment should be considered a learning situation where adaptive behaviors and cognitions are taught, and the therapist-client relationship is viewed as being similar to a teacher-student relationship. Much of current cognitive-behavioral treatment has its roots in Rotter's social learning theory, although these debts often go unacknowledged.

http://psych.fullerton.edu/jmearns/rotter.htm



some interesting information regarding learning deficits.....

http://www.pediatricneurology.com/autism.h...stic%20Disorder



Listen to children with Aspergers syndrome

http://www.pediatricneurology.com/aspergers_sound.htm



Interventional Therapy in learning and development for children

http://www.childmdim.com/resources/interve...t_practices.asp



Social and Emotional Development

http://classweb.gmu.edu/awinsler/ordp/social.html#temp


Of interest....Social Theorists.......you might like this site Bill

http://www.trinity.edu/~mkearl/theory.html

According to Karl Popper (Logik der Forschung, 1935: p.26), Theory is "the net which we throw out in order to catch the world--to rationalize, explain, and dominate it." Through history, sociological theory arose out of attempts to make sense of times of dramatic social change. As Hans Gerth and C. Wright Mills observed in Character and Social Structure (Harbinger Books, 1964:xiii), "Problems of the nature of human nature are raised most urgently when the life-routines of a society are disturbed, when men are alienated from their social roles in such a way as to open themselves up for new insight."

I've never heard it framed this way before. That what we are labelling as "disability" may actually be a specialized need that's being frustrated by society's neglect. I don't think we have any way to assess children at a young age, see what they're good at and push them in that direction. But I like the idea. Well, we have the tools to assess children but mostly use these to pathologize them or point to areas where they are not measuring up to the "standard."

Montessori schools provide a very interesting alternative to the standard methods of education. In their schools self-directed learning is the norm. Students work at their own pace and choose what they want to work on. When they're naturally good at math they can work on math. I recently toured a Montessori school that went until the 8th grade. There was a tour by one of the 8th graders.

All the children were very studiously attending to their chosen projects. Much of the work was done on the floor as children naturally play on the floor. They were collaborating in small groups of two - maybe three - but quietly. One child was allowed to bring her puppy to school. I was told by our 8th grade tour guide that the 4-5 year old girl was allowed to bring her puppy to school because that's what she was most interested in learning about and her experiences with her puppy were able to teach her about the responsibility of taking care of a pet.

Touring that school was like walking through a lab where artists were drawing, scientists were tinkering around with beakers, and the school's mathemetician was up in the highest room in the building with a great big math book. All in their own private learning heavens, undisturbed by 'norms.' I was informed by our guide that "nobody could understand what their resident math genius was reading in his book anymore." Not even his teachers. He had become his own math teacher. The great thing was they allowed him to do it! And I thought this was the way education should be.

They also had a great big bird cage with a large exotic bird in it. Two 7-8 year old boys were reading a science book in front of the bird cage. Our guide told us that these and other children were often fascinated by the bird and they would incorporate caring for the bird, the priveledge of studying out in the hallway in front of the bird cage, as a way to facilitate learning.

One class spent an entire year on a class project. They "built their own imaginary island" and populated it with plants, animals, people, government, etc. It then became their job to manage their island. The guide said the kids really were into creating and maintaining their island in such a way that it thrived.

I also noticed they advanced the children far faster than in regular curricula. 7 or 8 year olds were in the library area doing internet research projects, for example! They were being taught early how to go to the internet to look for the information they need. Interestingly they were sent in pairs to do their interenet research. Don't know why that is. Kids were also allowed to bring their own laptop computers to school if they had them.

Each of their "classes" consists of three years combined. For example 1st, 2nd and 3rd grades are in the same class. In the first grade they learn from third graders. By the time they get to 3rd grade they're expected to teach the 1st graders the skills they've learned. The theory is that the children are often better teachers than the teachers themselves. Plus teaching reinforces their learning and teaches them the art of teaching.

I think the 7th & 8th graders were responsible for tours and for ordering the lunches from local stores, taking care of the money, budgeting money for various school functions and getting involved with the administration of the school.

They also had little cubby holes for the children to take a nap if they were tired. They had 10 minutes or so to take a midmorning snack and were responsible for deciding when they wanted to have their stack, for going down to the kitchen and preparing it (if old enough) and for getting back on time. Our guide told us "time management" was something they stressed a great deal at the shool.

It seemed to me that each child was allowed to excell in their own way, at their own pace and more or less in their own direction. I saw tremendous respect for the child there. There were basic competencies a child had to master but was given three years to do so. Extra time with the teacher and special tutors were brought in from the community. Parents were expected to come and participate, talk about their careers, etc.

My mother went with me and she was very disturbed by what she saw. She said it was eerie watching the children who she thought were behaving like little automatrons. She thought they were brain washed by some sort of behavioral modification techniques. They were all extremely absorbed in their studies and hardly noticed when we entered the room and walked around observing them. It was kind of like watching a bunch of kids all playing game boys. You wave your hand in front of them and say, "Hello... hello... " to no avail. They're lost in their own little internal world. I attributed this to the fact that the education was working. Kids more interested in learning than they are in the novelty of a stranger entering the room are children who have very successfully been shown how satisfying learning can be.

I had the distinct impression they assumed different children's brains would be specialized in different ways. Instead of forcing them all to fit in the same mold they allowed them to find their own path. The only things that were required of all were compassion, civic duty, time management, etc.

I think you may be onto something about allowing children to follow their aptitude.

I'm not in favor of the increasing social isolation technology brings. It does allow us to find people with which we share similar interests, goals, compatibilities. But humans are social animals. We are wired for direct person to person interactions. If a baby is raised without appropriate physical contact from nurturing caregivers, but given all the food and nourishment it needs, it will develop what's called "Failure to Thrive" and not gain any weight.

Adults probably don't suffer nearly as much as a child would without direct social contact.

both wonderful ideas in my opinion!!!!

In fact as a child I use to pretend to be a teacher to my sister...needless to say I was a bit overzealous!! But then I set high requirements and standards!
anyway, I can can take that in wholly and say yes, that works!!!!

It made me study harder!!!!

I haven't been here for awhile and I haven't read all the intervening posts! But I copied and pasted this post of mine from another thread "You Liberals are Clueless"! I think it relates to the discussion of Metaphors here and what we are facing in general within the society. This affects Science and Schools because a "Bright" "Open" mind set is needed for Science and Learning to flourish!

The post is as follows;

"I think the whole model represented by Robert E. Lee, "Stonewall" Jackson , Jeb Stuart, Etc. and adored by many conservatives IS the "Strict Father" Metaphor. This is the metaphor that is beating the Liberal "Nurturant Parent" Model.

The Strict Father model as described by Lakoff includes the characteristics exhibited by the Southern Conservative,and Conservatives in general. Back in Civil War times it had already been fully developed (in fact it is thousands of years old). A "Strong" Male Father figure in charge, the female subordinated to the male. The Father as the final arbitor of what is "good" and "bad" , right and wrong, superior and inferior. In essense the representative and proxy for "God" on earth.

We can go into this further, but I see a problem aside from the obvious. In Jungian terms while we all have a "Father Complex" which responds to the "Strict Father" Metaphor, there is the possibility for these Metaphors and Complexes to be "contaminated" by the "Shadow".

For those not familiar with Jungian terminology; The "Shadow" is a representation of those aspects of a human psyche that are rejected by the conscious mind. IE.. the denied truths, the uncomfortable facts one doesn't want to deal with. These ideas/feelings are shoved out of sight by the conscious mind and reside in the unconscious. They don't stay there or become dormant. One could say they "fester" and become (for want of a better term) our "inner demons"! These "Shadow" aspects of our mind are often responsible for the phenomenon of projection. Whereby we "perceive" evil in others, because we unconsciously sense in their outward personality or actions, a reflection of those secret aspects of ourselves.

We ALL do this to a greater or lesser degree! I do it! In fact, Picadilly, Indianhead, Heart, and Tomhye could reasonably make a case that that's what I've just been doing in the previous posts! Perhaps this is true. But alot of the worst effects of a "Shadow Accident" are ameliorated by OWNING ones' own shadow, thereby integrating it back into ones conscious mind in a healthy way. (Don't worry folks I'm in therapy for all this now)

But this post isn't really about me, it's about the "Strict" Father Model of the Conservatives, and about "contamination" by the Shadow. A strong case can be made that the Strict Father Model accepted by the Conservatives is indeed a "Dark" Father Model. A Father figure overcome by an "unintegrated" Shadow. The symptoms would be;

A hatred of any show of weakness. IE...emotional needs, dependancy, admitting mistakes, Medicare..etc.

A rejection of the equality of the "Feminine". IE...compassion, unconditional love, nurturance..etc.

A disdain for interdependence. IE..."it takes a village", communitarian values, Racial Tolerance, Social Security..etc.

A particular hatred/fear for/of (Male)Homosexuals.

A "Light" Father Model is what we as Progressives need to put up against the "Dark" Father figure of the Conservatives. To some degree the "Nurturant Parent" Model is a step in that direction, BUT the Model does NOT define the Masculine aspects sufficiently to "Challenge" the "Dark" Father Model. Robert Bly in his book "Iron John" discusses this subject in depth. IE... before a "Nurturant Parent" Model will be acceptable by the majority of MALES, a FULLY defined and satisfyingly deep, strong Maleness must be developed and revealed.

A Male who has been "feminized" is perceieved as a "Soft" Male, according to Bly. He insists that the male MUST go on an inner journey to discover his core masculinity BEFORE he can safely integrate his "feminine" side. To do otherwise is to "put the cart before the horse" and will be unconsciously rejected by the male psyche.

I will go farther with this if anyone is interested, but I have to go right now (I'm having a busy day). I'll check back later."

and I could equally make a case that they do not understand your experience....
there may be strength in numbers but it does not imply accuracy....

the best thing is to be true to what you know, not what others think they know......


now, I'll consider the other things you've said in light of understanding ourselves.
I think you already know that I find it extremely pleasant to see a man holding his children......for me it is not only the tenderness of that act, but it is a reasurring act of a more civilized man.

Thanks again for your emotional understanding. You exhibit the best in "Feminine Energy", and I as a Male appreciate it!

As to your attraction to a male who shows tenderness (holding his children)! You must know, that I am NOT talking about this as any kind of a negative. A daughter NEEDS a father to treat her this way, so she can grow up as a healthy young woman, and pick a likewise good man for a mate.

A son needs a father to likewise BLESS him, with a masculine show of love for the son, so he can become a MAN, like his father.

What I am saying is that the MAN, in order to DO these things, needs to be a MAN in a DEEP and somewhat mysterious way (not just biologically). In order to "attract" you, he needs to radiate "Masculine Energy"! This comes from within. THEN the picture of his exhibiting tenderness becomes an ephiphany! Robert Bly delves into this thoroughly.

As to the metaphors of the Democratic and Republican party; these need to be looked at as a Macrocosmic reflection of the microcosmic individual. The "Archtype" that is symbolized by the "Strict Father" Model accepted by the Conservatives is a "Father Energy" that has been damaged by modern society ( there are many reasons for this and Bly examines them)! Therefore it is contaminated with Shadow.

The Progressive movement needs to resurrect a "redeemed" "Father Energy", not a purely feminized, one. The redeemed Father is just as "strong if not stronger " than the damaged Father. He can then as a fully integrated MALE, attract the male populous as a HEALTHY role model.

yes, I think we touched on this a bit with Roosevelt......until the thread got hijacked!!!

Looks like this thread has taken an interesting direction... Jung, the "Shadow", "Father Energy"...

I remember reading from one of Jung's writings, where he said something about this "imbalance" between the masculine and feminine within the Christian religion.

What caught my attention was what he said about the Catholics vs. Protestants.

He said the Protestants reject the high standing that the Catholics give to the Mother Mary. Jung believed this was a mistake.

He said, although many of the Catholic countries have a long way to go before they "balance" with the feminine side of the human psyche, they do have a spiritual role model in Mary.

The Movie "The Passion of the Christ" had too much emphasis on blood and brutality for many viewers, but I think the woman who played the part of Mary should have won an Oscar for her portrayal of love and strength.

If a person can get past the "hierarchy" of "interpreters", and read the words of Jesus without the filter of organized religion... Jesus is the "Light" Father figure, a balance of sensitivity and strength.

If you look at Catholic history they didn't always revere the feminine...influences by both Judeo and Christian beliefs were more paternalistic especially as evidenced and practiced by the churches (Roman Catholic male dominated hierarchy), even if some early Christians did evidence a balance between male and female. It was much later that the Catholic church elevated Mary to a position of esteem in order to salvage the church, and introduce in a small way feminine influence.

Today we see the same with some proponents trying to elevate the Magdalene...from her sorry position as a whore, to an equal disciple...these proponents would like to see women have the ability to hold higher stations within the church hierarchy.......and of course we know that the Catholic church objects to this.

In fact I posted a bit of information in another thread regarding the migration of European peoples...if this is studied, you can see that as hordes from the North who had a more paternalistic structure to their society invaded and subdued their Southern cousins who had a more maternalistic structure to their society that this became the structure of European society. When one also adds the paternalistic Judeo-Christian belief systems (as evidenced by church hierarchy), you can see how Western civilization became more paternalistic than some of its Eastern counterparts.

Jung also spent time in Asia to learn their language and culture. He observed that the western idea of "romance" (desperate infatuation) is not found in Asia (although maybe now, via exported Hollywood movies). The developed Asian cultures found in china, Japan and Korea seem to have an understanding of the duality they call Yin and Yang.

"If Yang is overly powerful, then Yin may be too weak. If Yin is particularly strong, then Yang is apt to be defective. If the male force is overwhelming, then there will be excessive heat. If the female force is overwhelming, then there will be excessive cold."

Right as with Joseph Campbell, and the myths that he studied, you can also see the influence of romantic courtly love in European literature.....I studied Arthurian Romance in literature courses.....if you follow that, you can then also see the Romantic poetry of Byron, Keats, and Shelley etc..... this is an attempt I believe to do the same as the church did (in essence), and that is elevate the feminine because we had such a male dominated society........and thank goodness at least for these men...!!

whereas as you say Eastern cultures exhibit more of a balance....and I think that comes from an entirely different philosophic basis.

DWB04,
I think your introduction of Rotter's work was very additive to the discussion. His
contribution was most profound. It integrated the two major historical trends of
psycholanalytic theory and Behaviorism and made a place for the role of cognition
which laid the groundwork for the next major advance of information processing models of human behavior. One branch of this orientation became what is now refered to as artificial intelligence which normdoering has introduced into
this discussion. Rotter's work was also influential on the development of a Life Skills approach to counseling and psychotherapy that I have spoken of previously.The central question still is,"What is the nature of human nature?" How
do human development, human behavior and human experience work and how
can we improve on this process?

Thanks Robert for connecting the two, I was unaware of that significance, I simply found Rotter's writing profound in itself....

I have my questions as well......
and that relates to the big question of Qualia......the connection between brain and mind.....the currently unaswered question

when I look at all we have talked about, I see on the one hand with our human understanding this final question..."qualia" what is it?????

and when I look at the universe and what we are seeking to understand I see this same unanswered question.......perhaps this is why i see a link between the two........maybe when we answer one we will have the other answer???????

Until we as Progressives can fully understand and actualize this. We are fighting an uphill battle( politically and culturally). There is a deep hunger (among men) for the "Father Energy" in this disempowering modern society. This is why Males will opt for even a Dark Father Energy if it is all that is offered. This is why we progressives lose fights we should win on the merits.

Likewise with the fight to keep Science purely Science. The Dark Father Model does not want a Scientific refutation of HIS authority. Facts that contradict his judgements are NOT welcome. Therefore such facts and their source must be co-opted.

It is no coincidence that the symptoms of thinking among fundamentalists fit the analysis of the Dark Father Metaphor.

No individual, not even Bush or Cheney is purely the Dark Father. They are pushing the symbolic agenda of one, wittingly or unwittingly to a significant degree, because it wins them POWER!

The newly empowered "Feminine Energy" (the rise of the Empress), is not ascendent enough yet to take on the Dark Father alone. It behoves progressive women to encourage not discourage men to take this inner journey and find "Iron John"!

While everything that is, is not yet known, I believe that it is knowable.The relationship between brain and mind has always always interested me as far back as I can remember. While there's obviously an awfull lot of brain function involved in mind it always seemed to me to involve something that went beyond brain function. As I developed a fuller meaning for the concept of system and of the concept of self I stopped using the concept of mind and I never had
much use for the concept of soul. The Self-system, that ongoing process of
contact between the organism and the environment, includes what we've always meant by brain and mind. The brain as a major component of the organism and of
the self system is somewhat analogus to the central processing unit of a computer system. The "isness" of existence reflects the interplay between the structure and
process of systems. Every process transforms a structure and leaves a record in
the form of a structure. One of the best ways to learn more about human beings
is to learn everything that human beings have ever learned about systems.

I'd love to carry this discussion on Robert.....it is quite fascinating to me as well.....I remember years ago reading The Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes....that got me started I think.....

Feminine Energy is a good thing, but Dark Father and his hunky fallen angel will sell more DVDs

I didn't realize that this thread was still open. My lack of computer literacy is a
real handicap. I would like to get back to the relation between brain and
mind . I think general system theory could be helpful in this regard. I would like to get more of your thinking.