During the past few months it has been Dean vs. Anybody But Dean, now is the time we put our deferences aside and unite as a United Democratic Party Front.
WE HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE BACK THIS COUNTRY
The Republicans are preparing for a massive personal attack against Howard Dean after he becomes chairman of the Democratic National Committee. This is obviously an attempt to discredit the Democratic party as being "out of touch," which we all know is ridiculous bullsh*t.
While Dean prepares for this onslaught, we must help him by writing letters to local newspapers. Blog for America has some writing tips.
IT IS TIME TO PROTECT OUR PARTY!!!!!!
Full Version: DEANIACS & DEMOCRACTS MOUNT UP!!!
QUOTE
Tuesday, February 08, 2005
A Sensible Selection
Dean supporters had a lot to say about a recent LA Times commentary by Jonathan Chait in which Chait asks "Why are Democrats suicidally crazy?" He goes on to trot out the usual laundry list of unfounded claims that aim to shake our trust in Governor Dean's leadership.
Dean supporters spoke up and wrote in to challenge Chait's editorial. Two writers had their letters featured in the LA Times this week. Michael Vanier of Pasadena said:
I am sick of the ignorant, corrupt, bullying, hypocritical liars who control the Republican Party and the country. I am sick of the GOP spin machines that distort every opposing view and portray even the idea of dissent as tantamount to treason.
I am sick of the media, which are either in the pocket of the Republicans or so cowed by right-wing bullies that they dare not raise their voices to oppose the policies of the Bush administration.
I am sick of policies that try to ram one party's view of religion down everyone else's throat, of the vilification of gays for political gain, and of immoral and unnecessary wars started on blatantly false pretenses. But most of all, I am sick of Democrats who do not have the courage to speak up against all of the many stupid and evil things that this administration has done, is doing and will continue to do as long as nobody calls them on it.
Dean is not a perfect man, but he does have the courage to say what he knows to be true, even when it is politically risky.
Dean has the intelligence and the courage to inspire people to join the party and the organizational skills to raise money and build a truly national party.
And Amanda Eckerson of Los Angeles chimed in with her take on Chait's espousal of "middle-of-the-road" plan:
I beg to differ with the assertion that Dean is a "suicidal selection" for DNC chair. Jonathan Chait's claim that "he reinforces all the party's weaknesses" is absurd. Pursuing a middle-of-the-road tack, as Chait espouses, is the real weakness: It will result in the same spineless party we have now.
Dean is everything the Democrats need. He will infuse the party with energy and motivation. He will openly criticize an administration that has staged a virtual coup of public opinion and economic and environmental policy. But best of all, he will spark a debate about the direction this country is going instead of letting our values and prestige silently disappear. That is something this whole country needs.
Letters to the editor do work, so don't be silent when publications feature attacks on Governor Dean and his initiatives to change the Democratic Party. Haven't written a letter yet? Write one today.
A Sensible Selection
Dean supporters had a lot to say about a recent LA Times commentary by Jonathan Chait in which Chait asks "Why are Democrats suicidally crazy?" He goes on to trot out the usual laundry list of unfounded claims that aim to shake our trust in Governor Dean's leadership.
Dean supporters spoke up and wrote in to challenge Chait's editorial. Two writers had their letters featured in the LA Times this week. Michael Vanier of Pasadena said:
I am sick of the ignorant, corrupt, bullying, hypocritical liars who control the Republican Party and the country. I am sick of the GOP spin machines that distort every opposing view and portray even the idea of dissent as tantamount to treason.
I am sick of the media, which are either in the pocket of the Republicans or so cowed by right-wing bullies that they dare not raise their voices to oppose the policies of the Bush administration.
I am sick of policies that try to ram one party's view of religion down everyone else's throat, of the vilification of gays for political gain, and of immoral and unnecessary wars started on blatantly false pretenses. But most of all, I am sick of Democrats who do not have the courage to speak up against all of the many stupid and evil things that this administration has done, is doing and will continue to do as long as nobody calls them on it.
Dean is not a perfect man, but he does have the courage to say what he knows to be true, even when it is politically risky.
Dean has the intelligence and the courage to inspire people to join the party and the organizational skills to raise money and build a truly national party.
And Amanda Eckerson of Los Angeles chimed in with her take on Chait's espousal of "middle-of-the-road" plan:
I beg to differ with the assertion that Dean is a "suicidal selection" for DNC chair. Jonathan Chait's claim that "he reinforces all the party's weaknesses" is absurd. Pursuing a middle-of-the-road tack, as Chait espouses, is the real weakness: It will result in the same spineless party we have now.
Dean is everything the Democrats need. He will infuse the party with energy and motivation. He will openly criticize an administration that has staged a virtual coup of public opinion and economic and environmental policy. But best of all, he will spark a debate about the direction this country is going instead of letting our values and prestige silently disappear. That is something this whole country needs.
Letters to the editor do work, so don't be silent when publications feature attacks on Governor Dean and his initiatives to change the Democratic Party. Haven't written a letter yet? Write one today.
http://www.blogforamerica.com/
My one hope if Howard Dean is declared DNC chair is that Deaniacs one and all will cease to exist - as will Roemerites - Frostians - Fowlerites - etc. and we will all be Democrats. :D 
Hmmmm, I wonder what the official Vegas over/under line will be on how many times Fox news broadcasts the scream right after the declaration?
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 8 2005, 09:44 AM)
My one hope if Howard Dean is declared DNC chair is that Deaniacs one and all will cease to exist - as will Roemerites - Frostians - Fowlerites - etc. and we will all be Democrats. :D
I can agree with you on this, my fellow Democrat. :D
You do have to admit, it was fun and good practice the repukes.
Dean is going to hurt the DNC even more - he is NOT a good choice for its leader. He wasn't even a successfull viable candidate - now he will be leading the party??? YEEEEEAAAAHHHHH!
But until then...
Hmmm. Sounds reasonable to me.
This is what I have been saying all along - Dean can not effectively communicate the party's message because he botched communicating a winning message as a candidate and because he does not know how to talk to red staters....
And please do not try to make the argument that he received endorsements from Florida and Mississippi and helped candidates in Montana and Utah ----except for Flroida - when was the last time the Democratic party's national ticket won these states? Do you really believe a Northeasterner is going to increase our marketability there?
And what else have I been saying...
He's a lousy manager - look at how his campaign went bankrupt after setting fundraising records...
Why are you Dean supporters so afraid of reality?
We have Bush is denial in the White House and Deaniacs in denial everywhere else...
When are we going to find a happy reality-based medium?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commen...omment-opinions
JONATHAN CHAIT
A Suicidal Selection
With Dean as party chairman, the Democrats wouldn't need enemies.
JONATHAN CHAIT
February 4, 2005
A few weeks ago, when former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean declared his intention to run for chairman of the Democratic National Committee, news reports had the general tone of "Get this, that crazy scream guy is back and he wants to run the party." Now, a week before the vote, his victory is a fait accompli. How did this happen? Are Democrats suicidally crazy?
Wait. That's too easy. Let me rephrase the question. Why are Democrats suicidally crazy?
The conventional rap against Dean as DNC chairman is essentially the same as the conventional rap against him as presidential candidate a year ago. Namely, he reinforces all the party's weaknesses. Democrats need to appeal to culturally traditional voters in the Midwest and border states who worry about the party's commitment to national security. Dean, with his intense secularism, arrogant style, throngs of high-profile counterculture supporters and association with the peace movement, is the precise opposite of the image Democrats want to send out.
The conventional rap is completely right. But, in a way, Dean is even less suited to run the DNC than he is to run for president.
The DNC chairman has two main jobs. First, he transmits the party's message — an important role when the party lacks a president and majority leaders in Congress. This job requires one to master the dismal art of "message discipline," boiling down the party's ideas into a few simple phrases and repeating them over and over until they have sunk into the public consciousness.
It's a role for which Dean is particularly ill suited. During his campaign, remember, he fashioned himself a straight talker, delighting reporters by repeatedly wandering "off message." On the plus side, he won friends in the media by appearing honest and human. On the negative side, he did himself enormous damage, when, for example, he suggested that he wouldn't prejudge Osama bin Laden until he had been convicted in a court of law.
For presidential candidates, the negatives of "straight talk" usually outweigh the positives. Paul Maslin, Dean's former pollster, wrote in the Atlantic Monthly after the campaign fell apart: "Our candidate's erratic judgment, loose tongue, and overall stubbornness wore our spirits down." But at least for a presidential campaign there are some positives in going off message. In a job like party chairman, a loose cannon is nothing but downside.
The second major task of the DNC chairman is to run the party organization. And here, if this is at all possible, Dean looks even worse. Garance Franke-Ruta, who wrote sympathetic Dean pieces in the American Prospect during the campaign, spoke with several former Dean staffers. One called the candidate "a horrible manager" and added, "I wouldn't trust him to run a company." Another called his management style "just a disaster."
Dean, remember, raised about $50 million by positioning himself as the most anti-Bush candidate, but blew through it so fast that he was nearly broke by January. This represents the sort of financial acumen you associate with deluded, flash-in-the-pan celebrities — cue the narrator for VH-1's "Behind the Music": "But the good times and lavish spending couldn't last for M.C. Hammer" — not with chairmen of major political parties.
So, how did Dean manage to trounce all comers for this position? Dean's supporters see his triumph as the victory of the masses over a tiny Democratic elite desperately trying to cling to power. As one left-liberal blogger gloated: "The fact that Howard Dean will most likely be heading up the Democratic Party is our victory. It is the voice of the grass roots lifted up into the halls of power once owned by the 'aristocracy of consultants.' " That actually has it backward. A recent Wall Street Journal poll found that only 27% of Democrats approve of Dean.
In the latest issue of the New Republic, Ryan Lizza described how Dean had prevailed in a process of third-rate intrigue. The choosing of the DNC chairman has been dominated by state parties, whose concerns revolve around expanding perks, including a demand for a $200,000 handout for each state party from the national party. Nobody seemed to pay much attention to the good of the party as a whole. Meanwhile, Dean touched those leaders' ideological erogenous zones, promising to "feed our core constituencies" and not be "Republican-lite."
As the last election showed, the core constituencies are plenty well fed. There just aren't enough of them to win the White House.
Hmmm. Sounds reasonable to me.
This is what I have been saying all along - Dean can not effectively communicate the party's message because he botched communicating a winning message as a candidate and because he does not know how to talk to red staters....
And please do not try to make the argument that he received endorsements from Florida and Mississippi and helped candidates in Montana and Utah ----except for Flroida - when was the last time the Democratic party's national ticket won these states? Do you really believe a Northeasterner is going to increase our marketability there?
And what else have I been saying...
He's a lousy manager - look at how his campaign went bankrupt after setting fundraising records...
Why are you Dean supporters so afraid of reality?
We have Bush is denial in the White House and Deaniacs in denial everywhere else...
When are we going to find a happy reality-based medium?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commen...omment-opinions
JONATHAN CHAIT
A Suicidal Selection
With Dean as party chairman, the Democrats wouldn't need enemies.
JONATHAN CHAIT
February 4, 2005
A few weeks ago, when former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean declared his intention to run for chairman of the Democratic National Committee, news reports had the general tone of "Get this, that crazy scream guy is back and he wants to run the party." Now, a week before the vote, his victory is a fait accompli. How did this happen? Are Democrats suicidally crazy?
Wait. That's too easy. Let me rephrase the question. Why are Democrats suicidally crazy?
The conventional rap against Dean as DNC chairman is essentially the same as the conventional rap against him as presidential candidate a year ago. Namely, he reinforces all the party's weaknesses. Democrats need to appeal to culturally traditional voters in the Midwest and border states who worry about the party's commitment to national security. Dean, with his intense secularism, arrogant style, throngs of high-profile counterculture supporters and association with the peace movement, is the precise opposite of the image Democrats want to send out.
The conventional rap is completely right. But, in a way, Dean is even less suited to run the DNC than he is to run for president.
The DNC chairman has two main jobs. First, he transmits the party's message — an important role when the party lacks a president and majority leaders in Congress. This job requires one to master the dismal art of "message discipline," boiling down the party's ideas into a few simple phrases and repeating them over and over until they have sunk into the public consciousness.
It's a role for which Dean is particularly ill suited. During his campaign, remember, he fashioned himself a straight talker, delighting reporters by repeatedly wandering "off message." On the plus side, he won friends in the media by appearing honest and human. On the negative side, he did himself enormous damage, when, for example, he suggested that he wouldn't prejudge Osama bin Laden until he had been convicted in a court of law.
For presidential candidates, the negatives of "straight talk" usually outweigh the positives. Paul Maslin, Dean's former pollster, wrote in the Atlantic Monthly after the campaign fell apart: "Our candidate's erratic judgment, loose tongue, and overall stubbornness wore our spirits down." But at least for a presidential campaign there are some positives in going off message. In a job like party chairman, a loose cannon is nothing but downside.
The second major task of the DNC chairman is to run the party organization. And here, if this is at all possible, Dean looks even worse. Garance Franke-Ruta, who wrote sympathetic Dean pieces in the American Prospect during the campaign, spoke with several former Dean staffers. One called the candidate "a horrible manager" and added, "I wouldn't trust him to run a company." Another called his management style "just a disaster."
Dean, remember, raised about $50 million by positioning himself as the most anti-Bush candidate, but blew through it so fast that he was nearly broke by January. This represents the sort of financial acumen you associate with deluded, flash-in-the-pan celebrities — cue the narrator for VH-1's "Behind the Music": "But the good times and lavish spending couldn't last for M.C. Hammer" — not with chairmen of major political parties.
So, how did Dean manage to trounce all comers for this position? Dean's supporters see his triumph as the victory of the masses over a tiny Democratic elite desperately trying to cling to power. As one left-liberal blogger gloated: "The fact that Howard Dean will most likely be heading up the Democratic Party is our victory. It is the voice of the grass roots lifted up into the halls of power once owned by the 'aristocracy of consultants.' " That actually has it backward. A recent Wall Street Journal poll found that only 27% of Democrats approve of Dean.
In the latest issue of the New Republic, Ryan Lizza described how Dean had prevailed in a process of third-rate intrigue. The choosing of the DNC chairman has been dominated by state parties, whose concerns revolve around expanding perks, including a demand for a $200,000 handout for each state party from the national party. Nobody seemed to pay much attention to the good of the party as a whole. Meanwhile, Dean touched those leaders' ideological erogenous zones, promising to "feed our core constituencies" and not be "Republican-lite."
As the last election showed, the core constituencies are plenty well fed. There just aren't enough of them to win the White House.
QUOTE(jgoutwest @ Feb 8 2005, 09:56 AM)
Dean is going to hurt the DNC even more - he is NOT a good choice for its leader. He wasn't even a successfull viable candidate - now he will be leading the party??? YEEEEEAAAAHHHHH!
Lets not go there, there are plenty of other thread where you can bash Dean until your heart is content. This thread is meant for a coming together.
CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG?
QUOTE(Eugeenie @ Feb 8 2005, 08:47 AM)
Hmmmm, I wonder what the official Vegas over/under line will be on how many times Fox news broadcasts the scream right after the declaration?
I predict it will be broadcast more times then a sane person can count, or stomach.
Would love to see a one for one with Bush in his flight suit declaring, "Mission Accomplished". The aversion to both would probably make us turn off the news, at
least for a day or so!
QUOTE(XicanoPwr @ Feb 8 2005, 10:06 AM)
Lets not go there, there are plenty of other thread where you can bash Dean until your heart is content. This thread is meant for a coming together.
CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG?
CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG?
FEBRUARY 12, 2005 - UNITY DAY FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!
Here's what they think of us in NC - we'll see if we ever come within 15 points of winning this state again....
Last updated: February 08. 2005 12:00AM
Dr. Dean, or Kevorkian?
http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...ORIAL/502080302
The leaders of the national Democratic Party seem to have lost what was left of their minds. They're apparently about to put themselves into the rubber-gloved hands of Dr. Howard Dean.
True, his job as party chairman will mainly be to raise money and try to organize Democrats for coming elections. Evidently party leaders from around the country believe he can do those things, and maybe he can.
The question is whether he can do them with his mouth shut.
When he was running for president, the former governor of Vermont managed to antagonize or frighten just about everybody outside of New England.
Certainly he made few friends in the South when he uttered that condescending remark about pickup trucks with Confederate flags.
At the time, John Edwards fired back, "let me tell you the last thing we need in the South is somebody like you coming down and telling us what we need to do. … And the only way that we as a party are going to win the White House back is to reach out to everybody and treat them with the dignity and respect that they're entitled to."
Maybe the new party chairman will. But you can bet on it: Deep inside the West Wing, Republican pols are whooping and high-fiving.
Last updated: February 08. 2005 12:00AM
Dr. Dean, or Kevorkian?
http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...ORIAL/502080302
The leaders of the national Democratic Party seem to have lost what was left of their minds. They're apparently about to put themselves into the rubber-gloved hands of Dr. Howard Dean.
True, his job as party chairman will mainly be to raise money and try to organize Democrats for coming elections. Evidently party leaders from around the country believe he can do those things, and maybe he can.
The question is whether he can do them with his mouth shut.
When he was running for president, the former governor of Vermont managed to antagonize or frighten just about everybody outside of New England.
Certainly he made few friends in the South when he uttered that condescending remark about pickup trucks with Confederate flags.
At the time, John Edwards fired back, "let me tell you the last thing we need in the South is somebody like you coming down and telling us what we need to do. … And the only way that we as a party are going to win the White House back is to reach out to everybody and treat them with the dignity and respect that they're entitled to."
Maybe the new party chairman will. But you can bet on it: Deep inside the West Wing, Republican pols are whooping and high-fiving.
QUOTE(jgoutwest @ Feb 8 2005, 10:56 AM)
YEEEEEAAAAHHHHH!
Gee, how I wish all Dem could develop the same strength as Dean's yell. That would have sent all the republicans back to to their Stepford caves. It's time we stop more GOPs from developing their inferiority complexes into superioty complexes.
No - it would have sent them for their guns...you know how easily scared the repubs are...and their need for security in weapons...
QUOTE(jgoutwest @ Feb 8 2005, 12:26 PM)
Dean is going to hurt the DNC even more - he is NOT a good choice for its leader. He wasn't even a successfull viable candidate - now he will be leading the party??? YEEEEEAAAAHHHHH!
Get it in now while you can.
I think that Dean is going to do well. He certainly will rally the troops better than McAuliffe, which is what we need, and he will work with Democratic officials across the spectrum.
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 8 2005, 03:46 PM)
No - it would have sent them for their guns...you know how easily scared the repubs are...and their need for security in weapons...
Oh, but that will allow all hell to break loose for the felons in our prisons. They will escape and jump on them. Ha, the GOP guns against the most dangerous American felons. That would make an interesting film!
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Feb 8 2005, 02:57 PM)
Get it in now while you can.
I think that Dean is going to do well. He certainly will rally the troops better than McAuliffe, which is what we need, and he will work with Democratic officials across the spectrum.
I think that Dean is going to do well. He certainly will rally the troops better than McAuliffe, which is what we need, and he will work with Democratic officials across the spectrum.
I agree. Let's put on our memory caps friends...and recall...
Dean's campaign was doing extremely well, and as you'll recall he was the frontrunner for the party's nominaton. He was an unstoppable machine, and had oodles of mass appeal. Then, the scream. Which was not even that big of a faux pas, but of course the media turned it into the scandal of the century like the bunch of sorry blood-thirsty slimy little leeches that they are. (sigh)
So now, all the Dems are acting like Dean just doesn't have what it takes, and is destined to faux pas his way into eternity. Which is ridiculous, unless you all really think he hasn't learned his lesson well from the scream incident. Which of course, he has...as would anyone with half a brain.
So set your fears aside. One scream (I prefer the term 'rallying cry') does not negate the overall quality or capability of a leader. He still has all he had pre-scream, and, you can probably bet, a lot more.
QUOTE(readyinTX @ Feb 8 2005, 03:26 PM)
I agree. Let's put on our memory caps friends...and recall...
Dean's campaign was doing extremely well, and as you'll recall he was the frontrunner for the party's nominaton. He was an unstoppable machine, and had oodles of mass appeal. Then, the scream. Which was not even that big of a faux pas, but of course the media turned it into the scandal of the century like the bunch of sorry blood-thirsty slimy little leeches that they are. (sigh)
So now, all the Dems are acting like Dean just doesn't have what it takes, and is destined to faux pas his way into eternity. Which is ridiculous, unless you all really think he hasn't learned his lesson well from the scream incident. Which of course, he has...as would anyone with half a brain.
So set your fears aside. One scream (I prefer the term 'rallying cry') does not negate the overall quality or capability of a leader. He still has all he had pre-scream, and, you can probably bet, a lot more.
Dean's campaign was doing extremely well, and as you'll recall he was the frontrunner for the party's nominaton. He was an unstoppable machine, and had oodles of mass appeal. Then, the scream. Which was not even that big of a faux pas, but of course the media turned it into the scandal of the century like the bunch of sorry blood-thirsty slimy little leeches that they are. (sigh)
So now, all the Dems are acting like Dean just doesn't have what it takes, and is destined to faux pas his way into eternity. Which is ridiculous, unless you all really think he hasn't learned his lesson well from the scream incident. Which of course, he has...as would anyone with half a brain.
So set your fears aside. One scream (I prefer the term 'rallying cry') does not negate the overall quality or capability of a leader. He still has all he had pre-scream, and, you can probably bet, a lot more.
Slightly revisionist history friend. Dean's campaign was doing great till it actually came to a vote!
Dean did not give the scream heard around the world until the evening of the Iowa caucus results when he - correct me if I'm wrong here now - LOST!
Dean was a frontrunner with more cash than anyone - setting fundraising records - he devoted a huge amount of his campaign organziation to Iowa - and then we had the Dean meltdown...
His personality - his angry image - his poor execution of his strategy - his bad message - all came back to haunt him.
Shortly after Iowa it was shown that his campaign was almost bankrupt after raising some $50 million and then frittering it away - this shows how good Dean is with money...
I like the scream incident - this is part of his infectious enthusiasm which is one of his most attractive features - what I do not like is his disorganization and inability to draft a coherent message and stay on it - it was these gaffes which cost him in Iowa and the northeast - his home turf...and one of the duties of the DNC chair is to create an effective message and stay on it which is something he couldn't do when it really counted.
What are we thinking?
The problem is Dean's persona which will haunt him and the party...just wait and see.
He's easily defined...by the repubs and the media as a northeast liberal elitist - and now with the party having two majob figures from the Northeast - this is the party that the Dems will be defined as - a bicoastal party not interested in the concerns of everyday - average - heartland Americans.
Thus - we won't increase our base in the blue states or the red states and we will be relegated to has been status in the midterms...
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 9 2005, 08:49 AM)
Slightly revisionist history friend.
Dean did not give the scream heard around the world until the evening of the Iowa caucus results when he - correct me if I'm wrong here now - LOST!
Dean was a frontrunner with more cash than anyone - setting fundraising records - he devoted a huge amount of his campaign organziation to Iowa - and then we had the Dean meltdown...
His personality - his angry image - his poor execution of his strategy - his bad message - all came back to haunt him.
Shortly after Iowa it was shown that his campaign was almost bankrupt after raising some $50 million and then frittering it away - this shows how good Dean is with money...
I like the scream incident - this is part of his infectious enthusiasm which is one of his most attractive features - what I do not like is his disorganization and inability to draft a coherent message and stay on it - it was these gaffes which cost him in Iowa and the northeast - his home turf...and one of the duties of the DNC chair is to create an effective message and stay on it which is something he couldn't do when it really counted.
What are we thinking?
The problem is Dean's persona which will haunt him and the party...just wait and see.
He's easily defined...by the repubs and the media as a northeast liberal elitist - and now with the party having two majob figures from the Northeast - this is the party that the Dems will be defined as - a bicoastal party not interested in the concerns of everyday - average - heartland Americans.
Thus - we won't increase our base in the blue states or the red states and we will be relegated to has been status in the midterms...
Dean did not give the scream heard around the world until the evening of the Iowa caucus results when he - correct me if I'm wrong here now - LOST!
Dean was a frontrunner with more cash than anyone - setting fundraising records - he devoted a huge amount of his campaign organziation to Iowa - and then we had the Dean meltdown...
His personality - his angry image - his poor execution of his strategy - his bad message - all came back to haunt him.
Shortly after Iowa it was shown that his campaign was almost bankrupt after raising some $50 million and then frittering it away - this shows how good Dean is with money...
I like the scream incident - this is part of his infectious enthusiasm which is one of his most attractive features - what I do not like is his disorganization and inability to draft a coherent message and stay on it - it was these gaffes which cost him in Iowa and the northeast - his home turf...and one of the duties of the DNC chair is to create an effective message and stay on it which is something he couldn't do when it really counted.
What are we thinking?
The problem is Dean's persona which will haunt him and the party...just wait and see.
He's easily defined...by the repubs and the media as a northeast liberal elitist - and now with the party having two majob figures from the Northeast - this is the party that the Dems will be defined as - a bicoastal party not interested in the concerns of everyday - average - heartland Americans.
Thus - we won't increase our base in the blue states or the red states and we will be relegated to has been status in the midterms...
You may be right about Dean's persona hurting, but I don't think that's going to happen. He made some big mistakes during the campaign, mainly that he railed against Bush but didn't offer alternatives- the same problem Kerry had, yes? Dean is smart, transparent, tells it like it is, and I believe he now understands, having learned from first hand experience, how to handle the garbage that will be flung at him from the Republicans and disgruntled Dems, as well.
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 8 2005, 03:46 PM)
No - it would have sent them for their guns...you know how easily scared the repubs are...and their need for security in weapons...
QUOTE(Salute_Liberty @ Feb 8 2005, 04:00 PM)
Oh, but that will allow all hell to break loose for the felons in our prisons. They will escape and jump on them. Ha, the GOP guns against the most dangerous American felons. That would make an interesting film!
I'm a pro Choice, pro-life, gun totin liberal.
So, make my liberal friggin day.
QUOTE(amy @ Feb 9 2005, 07:57 AM)
You may be right about Dean's persona hurting, but I don't think that's going to happen. He made some big mistakes during the campaign, mainly that he railed against Bush but didn't offer alternatives- the same problem Kerry had, yes? Dean is smart, transparent, tells it like it is, and I believe he now understands, having learned from first hand experience, how to handle the garbage that will be flung at him from the Republicans and disgruntled Dems, as well.
And the question remaining is - how much will that public persona hurt him in his mission as DNC chair?
Many argue as you do that this is all in the past - Dean has learned and he will transform the party.
I on the other hand have concerns - because of his visibility - having run a national campaign for the nomination he is a more public figure than any previous DNC or RNC chair - so the negative image - had to be accepted as a bigger factor than most chairs have had.
If Dean stays in the closet and keeps to himself - appoints surrogates to do his bidding - like Fowler in the South and Roemer in the Midwest --- then it may work - because as I have always said - Dean has the right ideas - its his execution I most worry about.
I also think he needs to appoint someone from the South or Midwest like Frost - to serve as his communications director - someone who can craft a national message that will sell in Texas as well as Vermont - in Ohio as well as California. Dean can not be involved in this process because frankly he hasn't go t a clue about what an effective national message is.
He also needs to use surrogates for fundraising. The less we see of him the better.
However, Howard Dean has an ego the size of Africa and I can not see him fading into the background. He will use the chairmanship as a license to appear regularly on the talk shows - and cable news programs - and this will cause people to be further alienated by the Democratic party which they see as the prisoner of the Northeast liberal elitists.
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 8 2005, 09:44 AM)
My one hope if Howard Dean is declared DNC chair is that Deaniacs one and all will cease to exist - as will Roemerites - Frostians - Fowlerites - etc. and we will all be Democrats. :D
now more than ever with this upcoming DNC chair vote on Feb 12th, and with Rove with more power, maybe this will be our cry to unite behind our Dem
chair, am I thinking to optimistically?
QUOTE(XicanoPwr @ Feb 8 2005, 10:06 AM)
Lets not go there, there are plenty of other thread where you can bash Dean until your heart is content. This thread is meant for a coming together.
CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG?
CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG?
I agree, look at what we have in the WH, Dean can't be any worse, and as far as relating to Rah Rah Red States who can tell them anything? they are not free thinkers. Give Dean a chance huh???
QUOTE(alyce @ Feb 9 2005, 09:32 AM)
I agree, look at what we have in the WH, Dean can't be any worse, and as far as relating to Rah Rah Red States who can tell them anything? they are not free thinkers. Give Dean a chance huh???
Come on. We're all adults here - I think - or at least we can act like them - most of the time
- we are not conservatives with narrow minds - we are liberals - independents - progressives - those who applaud a diversity of opinions - and are not afraid of contrarian points of view. No - we emnbrace them because there is strength in diversity - not just ethnicity - background - or occupation - but also viewpoint. I hope we have not gotten to the point where we censor our discussions - that's so George W. Bush...
Today is not unity day...
That comes in a couple of days on Saturday...
FEBRUARY 12 is UNITY DAY for the Democratic Party!
QUOTE(readyinTX @ Feb 8 2005, 05:26 PM)
I agree. Let's put on our memory caps friends...and recall...
Dean's campaign was doing extremely well, and as you'll recall he was the frontrunner for the party's nominaton. He was an unstoppable machine, and had oodles of mass appeal. Then, the scream. Which was not even that big of a faux pas, but of course the media turned it into the scandal of the century like the bunch of sorry blood-thirsty slimy little leeches that they are. (sigh)
So now, all the Dems are acting like Dean just doesn't have what it takes, and is destined to faux pas his way into eternity. Which is ridiculous, unless you all really think he hasn't learned his lesson well from the scream incident. Which of course, he has...as would anyone with half a brain.
So set your fears aside. One scream (I prefer the term 'rallying cry') does not negate the overall quality or capability of a leader. He still has all he had pre-scream, and, you can probably bet, a lot more.
Dean's campaign was doing extremely well, and as you'll recall he was the frontrunner for the party's nominaton. He was an unstoppable machine, and had oodles of mass appeal. Then, the scream. Which was not even that big of a faux pas, but of course the media turned it into the scandal of the century like the bunch of sorry blood-thirsty slimy little leeches that they are. (sigh)
So now, all the Dems are acting like Dean just doesn't have what it takes, and is destined to faux pas his way into eternity. Which is ridiculous, unless you all really think he hasn't learned his lesson well from the scream incident. Which of course, he has...as would anyone with half a brain.
So set your fears aside. One scream (I prefer the term 'rallying cry') does not negate the overall quality or capability of a leader. He still has all he had pre-scream, and, you can probably bet, a lot more.
Agree. He thinks "outside of the box" , is outspoken and tells it like it is. He is a leader not a follower. Yes these same attributes have turned negative on him a time or two but he is intelligent and I am sure he learned from past mistakes.
The fact that insiders in the party do not like him delights me- let's rumble.
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 9 2005, 11:39 AM)
He will use the chairmanship as a license to appear regularly on the talk shows - and cable news programs - and this will cause people to be further alienated by the Democratic party which they see as the prisoner of the Northeast liberal elitists.
You know, I come from Massachusetts and I certainly know that there is a species which could be called "Northeast liberal elitist". But not every Northeastern liberal is an elitist, personally I try to be very anti-elitist. (Some here may think that I'm not particularly liberal, but I don't think too many right-wingers would have many doubts about my liberalism.) Dean has been a bit gaffe-prone, and I think that we have to recognize that as a weakness. But he can also talk very reasonably, and show off his centrist side. (I was impressed when during one of the primary debates he managed to turn a question on guns to illustrate his pro-gun, but pro-environmentalist and anti-"property-rights movement" position. Sensible, center-left stuff.) I wouldn't be surprised if there is talk soon about the "new Howard Dean," a centrist, reasonable-sounding Dean. I would hope that he won't hog all of the attention to himself but will use surrogates and try to work with Reid and Pelosi. And I see nothing wrong with him being a more high-profile DNC Chair than normal. I just don't see him as being so high-profile that the normal Joe or Jill on the street is going to pay him anywhere near the sort of attention that they would to a major presidential candidate during an election year. Most people aren't so interested in politics. Hopefully he will set a good tone, an aggressive, but sensible progressive stance for the Democrats, which would be the true Howard Dean.
And just to remind folks, I was not a Dean supporter last year, I thought he wasn't a good candidate. I voted for Edwards in the primary and Kerry was my close second choice. But this is a different deal.
QUOTE(alyce @ Feb 9 2005, 12:02 PM)
I agree, look at what we have in the WH, Dean can't be any worse, and as far as relating to Rah Rah Red States who can tell them anything? they are not free thinkers. Give Dean a chance huh???
Alyce, I'm sorry, but I have to call you on this one. You are overgeneralizing and being very elitist about the Red States. There are all sorts of folks in the Red States, and many voted for Kerry. Yes, some of them would be the kind of close-minded folks you imagine, but most of them deserve more credit than that, even a lot of the ones who voted for Bush. And you know what? I'm pretty sure that Howard Dean would agree with me on this. He has stated that the Democratic Party needs to appeal to these folks. His statement about Confederate flags on pickup trucks was clumsy, but makes this same point.
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Feb 9 2005, 09:54 AM)
You know, I come from Massachusetts and I certainly know that there is a species which could be called "Northeast liberal elitist". But not every Northeastern liberal is an elitist, personally I try to be very anti-elitist. (Some here may think that I'm not particularly liberal, but I don't think too many right-wingers would have many doubts about my liberalism.) Dean has been a bit gaffe-prone, and I think that we have to recognize that as a weakness. But he can also talk very reasonably, and show off his centrist side. (I was impressed when during one of the primary debates he managed to turn a question on guns to illustrate his pro-gun, but pro-environmentalist and anti-"property-rights movement" position. Sensible, center-left stuff.) I wouldn't be surprised if there is talk soon about the "new Howard Dean," a centrist, reasonable-sounding Dean. I would hope that he won't hog all of the attention to himself but will use surrogates and try to work with Reid and Pelosi. And I see nothing wrong with him being a more high-profile DNC Chair than normal. I just don't see him as being so high-profile that the normal Joe or Jill on the street is going to pay him anywhere near the sort of attention that they would to a major presidential candidate during an election year. Most people aren't so interested in politics. Hopefully he will set a good tone, an aggressive, but sensible progressive stance for the Democrats, which would be the true Howard Dean.
And just to remind folks, I was not a Dean supporter last year, I thought he wasn't a good candidate. I voted for Edwards in the primary and Kerry was my close second choice. But this is a different deal.
And just to remind folks, I was not a Dean supporter last year, I thought he wasn't a good candidate. I voted for Edwards in the primary and Kerry was my close second choice. But this is a different deal.
Can you hear me now?
Its all perception. I know of very few Northeast liberals who are elitist and I know many Northeast liberals.
The point is not the truth of the matter of being a northeast liberal - it is the perception. Dean is not a Northeast liberal elitist. Never has been and I can not ever imagine him being one from what I know of him.
However, when had the Republican party and some of the media outlets ever been interested in the truth of the matter asserted?
As a result, he is hobbled by his persona. It is not an accurate persona. I believe he is actually much more conservative than he is given credit for. I believe his only liberal stances are on the war in Iraq and gay rights.
The problem with him being a more high profile chair than usual is that he is already labeled - dishonest or not - the label will stick. The American people once they label you - it is very hard for them to change their mind and many do not even want to invest the time in being reeducated.
As a result, this is a huge, huge liability to overcome as DNC chair if you are going to be visible.
Dean needs to be less visible - but his ego will not let him be.
This is the recipe for disaster.
Rather than allowing others with positive public images who can speak to various constuencies like Roemer in the midwest and Fowler in the South...Dean will be there scaring folks away.
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 9 2005, 07:49 AM)
Slightly revisionist history friend. Dean's campaign was doing great till it actually came to a vote!
Dean did not give the scream heard around the world until the evening of the Iowa caucus results when he - correct me if I'm wrong here now - LOST!
Dean was a frontrunner with more cash than anyone - setting fundraising records - he devoted a huge amount of his campaign organziation to Iowa - and then we had the Dean meltdown...
His personality - his angry image - his poor execution of his strategy - his bad message - all came back to haunt him.
Shortly after Iowa it was shown that his campaign was almost bankrupt after raising some $50 million and then frittering it away - this shows how good Dean is with money...
I like the scream incident - this is part of his infectious enthusiasm which is one of his most attractive features - what I do not like is his disorganization and inability to draft a coherent message and stay on it - it was these gaffes which cost him in Iowa and the northeast - his home turf...and one of the duties of the DNC chair is to create an effective message and stay on it which is something he couldn't do when it really counted.
What are we thinking?
The problem is Dean's persona which will haunt him and the party...just wait and see.
He's easily defined...by the repubs and the media as a northeast liberal elitist - and now with the party having two majob figures from the Northeast - this is the party that the Dems will be defined as - a bicoastal party not interested in the concerns of everyday - average - heartland Americans.
Thus - we won't increase our base in the blue states or the red states and we will be relegated to has been status in the midterms...
Dean did not give the scream heard around the world until the evening of the Iowa caucus results when he - correct me if I'm wrong here now - LOST!
Dean was a frontrunner with more cash than anyone - setting fundraising records - he devoted a huge amount of his campaign organziation to Iowa - and then we had the Dean meltdown...
His personality - his angry image - his poor execution of his strategy - his bad message - all came back to haunt him.
Shortly after Iowa it was shown that his campaign was almost bankrupt after raising some $50 million and then frittering it away - this shows how good Dean is with money...
I like the scream incident - this is part of his infectious enthusiasm which is one of his most attractive features - what I do not like is his disorganization and inability to draft a coherent message and stay on it - it was these gaffes which cost him in Iowa and the northeast - his home turf...and one of the duties of the DNC chair is to create an effective message and stay on it which is something he couldn't do when it really counted.
What are we thinking?
The problem is Dean's persona which will haunt him and the party...just wait and see.
He's easily defined...by the repubs and the media as a northeast liberal elitist - and now with the party having two majob figures from the Northeast - this is the party that the Dems will be defined as - a bicoastal party not interested in the concerns of everyday - average - heartland Americans.
Thus - we won't increase our base in the blue states or the red states and we will be relegated to has been status in the midterms...
QUOTE(jonnap @ Feb 9 2005, 09:53 AM)
Agree. He thinks "outside of the box" , is outspoken and tells it like it is. He is a leader not a follower. Yes these same attributes have turned negative on him a time or two but he is intelligent and I am sure he learned from past mistakes.
The fact that insiders in the party do not like him delights me- let's rumble.
The fact that insiders in the party do not like him delights me- let's rumble.
Still slightly revisionist history regarding Iowa. Dean's campaign was doing great till it actually came to a vote!
Dean did not give the scream heard around the world until the evening of the Iowa caucus results when he - correct me if I'm wrong here now - LOST!
Dean was a frontrunner with more cash than anyone - setting fundraising records - he devoted a huge amount of his campaign organziation to Iowa - and then we had the Dean meltdown...
His personality - his angry image - his poor execution of his strategy - his bad message - all came back to haunt him.
Shortly after Iowa it was shown that his campaign was almost bankrupt after raising some $50 million and then frittering it away - this shows how good Dean is with money...
I like the scream incident - this is part of his infectious enthusiasm which is one of his most attractive features - what I do not like is his disorganization and inability to draft a coherent message and stay on it - it was these gaffes which cost him in Iowa and the northeast - his home turf...and one of the duties of the DNC chair is to create an effective message and stay on it which is something he couldn't do when it really counted.
What are we thinking?
The problem is Dean's persona which will haunt him and the party...just wait and see.
He's easily defined...by the repubs and the media as a northeast liberal elitist - and now with the party having two majob figures from the Northeast - this is the party that the Dems will be defined as - a bicoastal party not interested in the concerns of everyday - average - heartland Americans.
Thus - we won't increase our base in the blue states or the red states and we will be relegated to has been status in the midterms...
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 9 2005, 12:33 PM)
Its all perception. I know of very few Northeast liberals who are elitist and I know many Northeast liberals.
The point is not the truth of the matter of being a northeast liberal - it is the perception. Dean is not a Northeast liberal elitist. Never has been and I can not ever imagine him being one from what I know of him.
The point is not the truth of the matter of being a northeast liberal - it is the perception. Dean is not a Northeast liberal elitist. Never has been and I can not ever imagine him being one from what I know of him.
Taz, I don't want to keep going over the same argument with you (although admittedly my last post did that to some extent) so I am just going to respond to this quote.
I don't really think that you are saying that all Northeast liberals are elitists. I have to admit to venting a bit in my last post. I have noticed elitism as the dark side of Northeast liberalism for a very long time, but I hate hearing that the dark side is all there is to it, which of course is what the right-wing says all of the time. So I thank you, especially for the first sentence in my quote of you. :D :D :D
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 9 2005, 12:37 PM)
He's easily defined...by the repubs and the media as a northeast liberal elitist - and now with the party having two majob figures from the Northeast - this is the party that the Dems will be defined as - a bicoastal party not interested in the concerns of everyday - average - heartland Americans.
Thus - we won't increase our base in the blue states or the red states and we will be relegated to has been status in the midterms...
Thus - we won't increase our base in the blue states or the red states and we will be relegated to has been status in the midterms...
My suggested antidote? Harry Reid. He has to be one our talking heads. Not charismatic but he is all hearland America.
Yes - if we could just get him some better writers and also maybe teach him to have a little more fire in his talk - but then that's what we got chairman Dean for - right?
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Feb 9 2005, 11:18 AM)
My suggested antidote? Harry Reid. He has to be one our talking heads. Not charismatic but he is all hearland America.
I really like Reid. We need truth tellers, who will not be constrained by political considerations-assuming positions that please both sides of the aisle, compromising their integrity as individuals and as elected officials. That's why I like Dean and Carter and Gore(present day) and Boxer, Feingold, etc. The Dems don't need spin and linguistic artists to say what they have to say. They need to know what they believe in and say it-clearly and concisely. The messengers need to be people of integrity, individuals who really believe what they are proposing, and to heck with those who don't agree!
He's good - just needs some more fire.
His milktoast demeanor makes him seem too detached and passionless.
Of course as I have said - we have all the passion we need in our new chair...
His milktoast demeanor makes him seem too detached and passionless.
Of course as I have said - we have all the passion we need in our new chair...
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Feb 9 2005, 10:01 AM)
Alyce, I'm sorry, but I have to call you on this one. You are overgeneralizing and being very elitist about the Red States. There are all sorts of folks in the Red States, and many voted for Kerry. Yes, some of them would be the kind of close-minded folks you imagine, but most of them deserve more credit than that, even a lot of the ones who voted for Bush. And you know what? I'm pretty sure that Howard Dean would agree with me on this. He has stated that the Democratic Party needs to appeal to these folks. His statement about Confederate flags on pickup trucks was clumsy, but makes this same point.
Okay, I will try not to think of all red staters as pro bush, I stand corrected on that. But do you think for one moment that Red staters for bush will go for Howard Dean as DNC chair, get ready for the mud slinging. Sorry, if I offended anyone, I know there must be some blueies in the red states.
This has been my point.
They will not.
However, in order to be successful and to be a national party we have to reach out to the red states.
We have to be competitive not just in the presidential races, but in the House and senate races.
One of the ways to do this is with a credible candidate for DNC chair who is respected and who these people can identify with. I do not think Dean is that person, but as I have said before - if Dean lays back and allows others to carry the party's message as surrogates then I think Dean might work out...using Roemer for the midwest and Fowler for the South.
Also - Frost should be enlisted to develop the party's national message to sell in the n s e w...
They will not.
However, in order to be successful and to be a national party we have to reach out to the red states.
We have to be competitive not just in the presidential races, but in the House and senate races.
One of the ways to do this is with a credible candidate for DNC chair who is respected and who these people can identify with. I do not think Dean is that person, but as I have said before - if Dean lays back and allows others to carry the party's message as surrogates then I think Dean might work out...using Roemer for the midwest and Fowler for the South.
Also - Frost should be enlisted to develop the party's national message to sell in the n s e w...
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 8 2005, 02:46 PM)
No - it would have sent them for their guns...you know how easily scared the repubs are...and their need for security in weapons...
For real, they (repubs) have to relate with gun power, how about brain power instead???
QUOTE(XicanoPwr @ Feb 8 2005, 09:40 AM)
During the past few months it has been Dean vs. Anybody But Dean, now is the time we put our deferences aside and unite as a United Democratic Party Front.
WE HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE BACK THIS COUNTRY
The Republicans are preparing for a massive personal attack against Howard Dean after he becomes chairman of the Democratic National Committee. This is obviously an attempt to discredit the Democratic party as being "out of touch," which we all know is ridiculous bullsh*t.
While Dean prepares for this onslaught, we must help him by writing letters to local newspapers. Blog for America has some writing tips.
IT IS TIME TO PROTECT OUR PARTY!!!!!!
WE HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE BACK THIS COUNTRY
The Republicans are preparing for a massive personal attack against Howard Dean after he becomes chairman of the Democratic National Committee. This is obviously an attempt to discredit the Democratic party as being "out of touch," which we all know is ridiculous bullsh*t.
While Dean prepares for this onslaught, we must help him by writing letters to local newspapers. Blog for America has some writing tips.
IT IS TIME TO PROTECT OUR PARTY!!!!!!
I have Dean's back on this.
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 9 2005, 12:48 PM)
This has been my point.
They will not.
However, in order to be successful and to be a national party we have to reach out to the red states.
We have to be competitive not just in the presidential races, but in the House and senate races.
One of the ways to do this is with a credible candidate for DNC chair who is respected and who these people can identify with. I do not think Dean is that person, but as I have said before - if Dean lays back and allows others to carry the party's message as surrogates then I think Dean might work out...using Roemer for the midwest and Fowler for the South.
Also - Frost should be enlisted to develop the party's national message to sell in the n s e w...
They will not.
However, in order to be successful and to be a national party we have to reach out to the red states.
We have to be competitive not just in the presidential races, but in the House and senate races.
One of the ways to do this is with a credible candidate for DNC chair who is respected and who these people can identify with. I do not think Dean is that person, but as I have said before - if Dean lays back and allows others to carry the party's message as surrogates then I think Dean might work out...using Roemer for the midwest and Fowler for the South.
Also - Frost should be enlisted to develop the party's national message to sell in the n s e w...
Just a question, did Terry McAucliffe have the same reception, like nobody especially liked him either, didn't some people say he wasn't aggressive. Dean is aggressive, and I think he will be open for suggestions from the other candidates who stepped down.
QUOTE(alyce @ Feb 9 2005, 12:58 PM)
For real, they (repubs) have to relate with gun power, how about brain power instead???
That's our blessing and our problem - we think too much.
We need to develop a message and strategy that has no thinking invovled like the Republican strategy.
If we attack character the Republicans have nothing...because we win on the issues.
They win on the character issue - except when people don't believe them like what happened with Clinton...(and the help of Perrot).
QUOTE(jgoutwest @ Feb 8 2005, 08:56 AM)
Dean is going to hurt the DNC even more - he is NOT a good choice for its leader. He wasn't even a successfull viable candidate - now he will be leading the party??? YEEEEEAAAAHHHHH!
Uh...a little late to the game here, sport?
HEY, TAZ....I think this is what's being discussed on the other thread
QUOTE(alyce @ Feb 9 2005, 01:04 PM)
Just a question, did Terry McAucliffe have the same reception, like nobody especially liked him either, didn't some people say he wasn't aggressive. Dean is aggressive, and I think he will be open for suggestions from the other candidates who stepped down.
Couldn't tell you.
This is a different animal. We didn;t have forums like this back when McAuliffe became chair.
Also, Dean in polarizing and visible because of his candidacy for the presidency.
Very few people knew McAuliffe and most times when you win the presidency as a candidate for your party like Clinton did in appointing McAuliffe the party goes along with your recommendation.
This is part of the problem with him becoming chair.
I know of know prior chair for the Ds or Rs which has had as much visibility as Dean. This gives him a lot of baggage.
QUOTE(mommadona @ Feb 9 2005, 01:43 PM)
Uh...a little late to the game here, sport?
HEY, TAZ....I think this is what's being discussed on the other thread
HEY, TAZ....I think this is what's being discussed on the other thread
I hadn't noticed...
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 8 2005, 08:56 AM)
But until then...
Hmmm. Sounds reasonable to me.
This is what I have been saying all along - Dean can not effectively communicate the party's message because he botched communicating a winning message as a candidate and because he does not know how to talk to red staters....
And please do not try to make the argument that he received endorsements from Florida and Mississippi and helped candidates in Montana and Utah ----except for Flroida - when was the last time the Democratic party's national ticket won these states? Do you really believe a Northeasterner is going to increase our marketability there?
And what else have I been saying...
He's a lousy manager - look at how his campaign went bankrupt after setting fundraising records...
Why are you Dean supporters so afraid of reality?
We have Bush is denial in the White House and Deaniacs in denial everywhere else...
When are we going to find a happy reality-based medium?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commen...omment-opinions
JONATHAN CHAIT
A Suicidal Selection
With Dean as party chairman, the Democrats wouldn't need enemies.
JONATHAN CHAIT
February 4, 2005
A few weeks ago, when former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean declared his intention to run for chairman of the Democratic National Committee, news reports had the general tone of "Get this, that crazy scream guy is back and he wants to run the party." Now, a week before the vote, his victory is a fait accompli. How did this happen? Are Democrats suicidally crazy?
Wait. That's too easy. Let me rephrase the question. Why are Democrats suicidally crazy?
The conventional rap against Dean as DNC chairman is essentially the same as the conventional rap against him as presidential candidate a year ago. Namely, he reinforces all the party's weaknesses. Democrats need to appeal to culturally traditional voters in the Midwest and border states who worry about the party's commitment to national security. Dean, with his intense secularism, arrogant style, throngs of high-profile counterculture supporters and association with the peace movement, is the precise opposite of the image Democrats want to send out.
The conventional rap is completely right. But, in a way, Dean is even less suited to run the DNC than he is to run for president.
The DNC chairman has two main jobs. First, he transmits the party's message — an important role when the party lacks a president and majority leaders in Congress. This job requires one to master the dismal art of "message discipline," boiling down the party's ideas into a few simple phrases and repeating them over and over until they have sunk into the public consciousness.
It's a role for which Dean is particularly ill suited. During his campaign, remember, he fashioned himself a straight talker, delighting reporters by repeatedly wandering "off message." On the plus side, he won friends in the media by appearing honest and human. On the negative side, he did himself enormous damage, when, for example, he suggested that he wouldn't prejudge Osama bin Laden until he had been convicted in a court of law.
For presidential candidates, the negatives of "straight talk" usually outweigh the positives. Paul Maslin, Dean's former pollster, wrote in the Atlantic Monthly after the campaign fell apart: "Our candidate's erratic judgment, loose tongue, and overall stubbornness wore our spirits down." But at least for a presidential campaign there are some positives in going off message. In a job like party chairman, a loose cannon is nothing but downside.
The second major task of the DNC chairman is to run the party organization. And here, if this is at all possible, Dean looks even worse. Garance Franke-Ruta, who wrote sympathetic Dean pieces in the American Prospect during the campaign, spoke with several former Dean staffers. One called the candidate "a horrible manager" and added, "I wouldn't trust him to run a company." Another called his management style "just a disaster."
Dean, remember, raised about $50 million by positioning himself as the most anti-Bush candidate, but blew through it so fast that he was nearly broke by January. This represents the sort of financial acumen you associate with deluded, flash-in-the-pan celebrities — cue the narrator for VH-1's "Behind the Music": "But the good times and lavish spending couldn't last for M.C. Hammer" — not with chairmen of major political parties.
So, how did Dean manage to trounce all comers for this position? Dean's supporters see his triumph as the victory of the masses over a tiny Democratic elite desperately trying to cling to power. As one left-liberal blogger gloated: "The fact that Howard Dean will most likely be heading up the Democratic Party is our victory. It is the voice of the grass roots lifted up into the halls of power once owned by the 'aristocracy of consultants.' " That actually has it backward. A recent Wall Street Journal poll found that only 27% of Democrats approve of Dean.
In the latest issue of the New Republic, Ryan Lizza described how Dean had prevailed in a process of third-rate intrigue. The choosing of the DNC chairman has been dominated by state parties, whose concerns revolve around expanding perks, including a demand for a $200,000 handout for each state party from the national party. Nobody seemed to pay much attention to the good of the party as a whole. Meanwhile, Dean touched those leaders' ideological erogenous zones, promising to "feed our core constituencies" and not be "Republican-lite."
As the last election showed, the core constituencies are plenty well fed. There just aren't enough of them to win the White House.
Hmmm. Sounds reasonable to me.
This is what I have been saying all along - Dean can not effectively communicate the party's message because he botched communicating a winning message as a candidate and because he does not know how to talk to red staters....
And please do not try to make the argument that he received endorsements from Florida and Mississippi and helped candidates in Montana and Utah ----except for Flroida - when was the last time the Democratic party's national ticket won these states? Do you really believe a Northeasterner is going to increase our marketability there?
And what else have I been saying...
He's a lousy manager - look at how his campaign went bankrupt after setting fundraising records...
Why are you Dean supporters so afraid of reality?
We have Bush is denial in the White House and Deaniacs in denial everywhere else...
When are we going to find a happy reality-based medium?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commen...omment-opinions
JONATHAN CHAIT
A Suicidal Selection
With Dean as party chairman, the Democrats wouldn't need enemies.
JONATHAN CHAIT
February 4, 2005
A few weeks ago, when former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean declared his intention to run for chairman of the Democratic National Committee, news reports had the general tone of "Get this, that crazy scream guy is back and he wants to run the party." Now, a week before the vote, his victory is a fait accompli. How did this happen? Are Democrats suicidally crazy?
Wait. That's too easy. Let me rephrase the question. Why are Democrats suicidally crazy?
The conventional rap against Dean as DNC chairman is essentially the same as the conventional rap against him as presidential candidate a year ago. Namely, he reinforces all the party's weaknesses. Democrats need to appeal to culturally traditional voters in the Midwest and border states who worry about the party's commitment to national security. Dean, with his intense secularism, arrogant style, throngs of high-profile counterculture supporters and association with the peace movement, is the precise opposite of the image Democrats want to send out.
The conventional rap is completely right. But, in a way, Dean is even less suited to run the DNC than he is to run for president.
The DNC chairman has two main jobs. First, he transmits the party's message — an important role when the party lacks a president and majority leaders in Congress. This job requires one to master the dismal art of "message discipline," boiling down the party's ideas into a few simple phrases and repeating them over and over until they have sunk into the public consciousness.
It's a role for which Dean is particularly ill suited. During his campaign, remember, he fashioned himself a straight talker, delighting reporters by repeatedly wandering "off message." On the plus side, he won friends in the media by appearing honest and human. On the negative side, he did himself enormous damage, when, for example, he suggested that he wouldn't prejudge Osama bin Laden until he had been convicted in a court of law.
For presidential candidates, the negatives of "straight talk" usually outweigh the positives. Paul Maslin, Dean's former pollster, wrote in the Atlantic Monthly after the campaign fell apart: "Our candidate's erratic judgment, loose tongue, and overall stubbornness wore our spirits down." But at least for a presidential campaign there are some positives in going off message. In a job like party chairman, a loose cannon is nothing but downside.
The second major task of the DNC chairman is to run the party organization. And here, if this is at all possible, Dean looks even worse. Garance Franke-Ruta, who wrote sympathetic Dean pieces in the American Prospect during the campaign, spoke with several former Dean staffers. One called the candidate "a horrible manager" and added, "I wouldn't trust him to run a company." Another called his management style "just a disaster."
Dean, remember, raised about $50 million by positioning himself as the most anti-Bush candidate, but blew through it so fast that he was nearly broke by January. This represents the sort of financial acumen you associate with deluded, flash-in-the-pan celebrities — cue the narrator for VH-1's "Behind the Music": "But the good times and lavish spending couldn't last for M.C. Hammer" — not with chairmen of major political parties.
So, how did Dean manage to trounce all comers for this position? Dean's supporters see his triumph as the victory of the masses over a tiny Democratic elite desperately trying to cling to power. As one left-liberal blogger gloated: "The fact that Howard Dean will most likely be heading up the Democratic Party is our victory. It is the voice of the grass roots lifted up into the halls of power once owned by the 'aristocracy of consultants.' " That actually has it backward. A recent Wall Street Journal poll found that only 27% of Democrats approve of Dean.
In the latest issue of the New Republic, Ryan Lizza described how Dean had prevailed in a process of third-rate intrigue. The choosing of the DNC chairman has been dominated by state parties, whose concerns revolve around expanding perks, including a demand for a $200,000 handout for each state party from the national party. Nobody seemed to pay much attention to the good of the party as a whole. Meanwhile, Dean touched those leaders' ideological erogenous zones, promising to "feed our core constituencies" and not be "Republican-lite."
As the last election showed, the core constituencies are plenty well fed. There just aren't enough of them to win the White House.
Weren't you just on another thread saying "why can't we discuss this without dissing"?
Or do I have you mixed in with ....gorsh ya can't tell da good guys from da bad guys anymore here.....
FUGGGGETABOUT IT. GETTTTT OVER IT. QUICKLY.
Hey, I'm not even a Democrat and I don't like this junk.
QUOTE(mommadona @ Feb 9 2005, 01:47 PM)
Weren't you just on another thread saying "why can't we discuss this without dissing"?
Or do I have you mixed in with ....gorsh ya can't tell da good guys from da bad guys anymore here.....
FUGGGGETABOUT IT. GETTTTT OVER IT. QUICKLY.
Hey, I'm not even a Democrat and I don't like this junk.
Or do I have you mixed in with ....gorsh ya can't tell da good guys from da bad guys anymore here.....
FUGGGGETABOUT IT. GETTTTT OVER IT. QUICKLY.
Hey, I'm not even a Democrat and I don't like this junk.
I have repeatedly said I will keep discussing Dean until Saturday - probably Thursday in reality...
I owe that to my conscience.
He is a great man with great ideas - but he is not the right face for the party unless he sits back and lets others get the job done and with his ego as big as it is - I can't see him doing that.
It would be different if Kerry had won - then I'd say let Dean be DNC chair - but Kerry didn't so rather than alienating more red staters and making our party look like we can't find anyone else than someone from the Northeast.
February 12, 2005 CGCS Unity Day!
PS. Love the wit...(he said with a Hannibal Lecterish charm...)
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Feb 9 2005, 12:52 PM)
I have repeatedly said I will keep discussing Dean until Saturday - probably Thursday in reality...
I owe that to my conscience.
He is a great man with great ideas - but he is not the right face for the party unless he sits back and lets others get the job done and with his ego as big as it is - I can't see him doing that.
It would be different if Kerry had won - then I'd say let Dean be DNC chair - but Kerry didn't so rather than alienating more red staters and making our party look like we can't find anyone else than someone from the Northeast.
February 12, 2005 Unity Day for the Democratic Party!
I owe that to my conscience.
He is a great man with great ideas - but he is not the right face for the party unless he sits back and lets others get the job done and with his ego as big as it is - I can't see him doing that.
It would be different if Kerry had won - then I'd say let Dean be DNC chair - but Kerry didn't so rather than alienating more red staters and making our party look like we can't find anyone else than someone from the Northeast.
February 12, 2005 Unity Day for the Democratic Party!
Oh, ok!
(she checks her watch and sets the little alarm thingie....)
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.