QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 9 2005, 04:14 PM)
And THIS fact which is often bandied about is one that boggles my mind.--
They want the 18 to 34 year old market.
WHY???
They don't have any money!!!
The people with disposable income are the geezer set.
WE not they are the one's the admen should lust after.
Maybe they have figured out that we don't watch TV.
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jul 8 2005, 05:21 PM)
"Young GOP Eager to Face Hillary Clinton"By CHRISTINA ALMEIDA, Associated Press Writer
Convention guests attended several panels and training seminars on Thursday, including one on how to mobilize young voters by "keeping it positive not partisan."
They were told the only demographic President Bush lost to Sen. John Kerry in 2004 was those ages 18 to 29.
"This party cannot afford to allow that segment of the population to be Democrat," said Frank Fahrenkopf, former Republican National Committee chairman and Thursday's keynote speaker.
"This is where the Young Republicans can be of particular value."__
On the Net:
http://www.youngrepublicans.comhttp://www.yrnc2005.com QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jul 13 2005, 06:32 AM)
"It's very important for folks to understand that when there's more trade, there's more commerce!"
"A new deal for teens at mall - Crossgates policy that limits access for youth raises economic, legal concerns" By JORDAN CARLEO-EVANGELIST, Staff writer, Albany, New York Times Union
First published: Monday, July 11, 2005
GUILDERLAND -- They ride the No. 12 bus from Albany on summer evenings.
Others pile into cars from Watervliet.
Some grab rides with older boys from Catskill.
They spend.
Hundreds of dollars at a time, several times a month, they claim.They're teenagers, and starting this week, they'll be a little less welcome at the region's biggest mall on Friday and Saturday nights.
Crossgates Mall's "parental escort policy" -- officials balk at calling it a curfew -- starts Friday, marking the first time a local mall has limited the access of unescorted teenagers.
It's after 7 p.m. and Madison Spickler, 17, of Watervliet, has just spent $120 on clothes and items for her room.
But shopping at the mall is something she won't be able to do by herself, or with her friends, on the weekend for a while.
"They just assume that people who are a certain age act a certain way," she says.
The restrictions cover 11 of the busiest hours of the week when, officials say, teens are most likely to hang out but not buy much.
The goal, they say, is to improve the atmosphere by eliminating rowdy groups that intimidate customers.
Mall managers claim similar restrictions have actually helped sales elsewhere.
But some marketing experts warn the policies risk alienating a demographic with free time and disposable cash.Still others maintain the rule is about perception -- not safety -- betting that enticing families back to the mall might be worth losing some teens who don't want to shop with an adult.
The rule requires anyone under 18 to be escorted by someone older than 21 on Friday and Saturday from 4 p.m. until closing.
It excludes the movie theaters and stores or restaurants with an outside entrance.
Whether sales will suffer is just one question raised since May when Crossgates announced the new rule.
Some wonder whether mall security can enforce it fairly, or at all.
Doomsayers predict the teens will take their dollars elsewhere, but teens themselves admit there are few other places to go.
Michael Wood, vice president of Teenage Research Unlimited, an Illinois-based marketing firm, has made a living studying what makes teens spend.
Policies like these, he said, "send a very clear message to young people that they're not welcome at the stores, and I think that's a very dangerous place to go."
Dangerous, Wood said, because teens spent $169 billion in the United States in 2004.
And they're perfectly willing to spend that money elsewhere, he said.
Rudy Smith, a 16-year-old from Troy who takes the No. 90 bus to and from Crossgates as many as four times a week, doesn't sound like someone about to abandon the mall, in part because he knows his options are limited.
"Maybe I'd go to Colonie, or Latham," Smith said of Colonie Center and the Latham Circle Mall as he walked through Crossgates last week eating candy with two friends.
"Not Latham," he quickly added.
"That's a dead mall."
"It's a ghost town."
Smith could come with an adult, but, he said, "This is what we do to get away from them."More important, said 15-year-old Ayriayne McAvoy, of Clifton Park, is: "Do they want to go with us?"
McAvoy, like many others, cradled bags full of new purchases.
"We all just spent $50 in the same store," said 17-year-old Jessica Whited, of Watervliet, as she stood with three friends.
That might not be enough.
"The kids that were hanging around that were under 18 didn't have the money to buy a $150 Xbox," said Julie Hansen, spokeswoman for Minnesota's Mall of America, among the first to impose an escort policy almost nine years ago.
After the policy went into effect, security incidents dropped from 300 in a weekend to 2, and sales increased, she said.
The New York City-based International Council of Shopping Centers just started studying what effects these polices might have, so no data was available, said spokeswoman Patrice Duker.
At least one marketer questions their power.
"It's not going to make that much of a difference because people are going to go shopping when they have time, not around a curfew," said Gerald Celente, director of the Trends Research Institute in Rhinebeck.
Older Crossgates shoppers tell a different story, offering tales of teens blocking entrances to stores and being afraid to ask them to move.
They tell of avoiding Crossgates on weekend nights, or completely.
"For someone with kids my kids' age, I can see why it's a good idea," said Kristin Rosenstein, of Delmar, as she walked with her 10-year-old son and 11-year-old daughter.
"The atmosphere gets kind of rough."
Several well-publicized fights have fueled a perception of a lack of order at Crossgates.Officials don't disclose specific security statistics, but General Manager Terri Walsh said incidents were actually declining.
The new policy, she said, wasn't a reaction but rather part of a plan to improve "the entire atmosphere" in the 20-year-old mall.
Some community members and security experts are wary of these policies, saying they can be difficult to enforce and selectively applied.
"It's code for they're trying to exclude a certain class of person," said Chris McGoey, a Los Angeles security consultant who says malls fear groups of loitering young men scare off business.
Enforcement falls to ill-equipped mall security, McGoey said.
"If you're going to have 30 or 40 different security officers, what are the odds of getting all of them using the same sort of common sense to enforce ... this evenly or fairly?"
"At 3:59 you're legitimate, you're welcome."
"At 4:00 you're not."
"The lawyers are licking their chops."
Alice Green, director of Albany's Center for Law and Justice, said there is also the potential for abuse by selectively enforcing the policy against a certain group.
"We've always been concerned about the treatment of kids of color," she said.
Sensitivity and fairness are the foundations of the training for the three dozen "greeters" and security guards Crossgates is hiring to enforce the policy, said Walsh.
"Every person that walks through the door is to be looked at solely with the question, 'Do they appear to be under 18 or not,' " she said.
Any time a place of "public accommodation" creates a category of people who are treated differently, "there are serious legal and constitutional concerns," said Albany lawyer Mark Mishler, who is representing a Selkirk man in an unrelated legal battle against the mall.
His client was arrested after he refused to remove a T-shirt that said "give peace a chance."
Michael Bovalino, CEO of the Pyramid Cos., which owns Crossgates, said "there are no legal issues" with the policy, though he declined to discuss specifics.
Walden Galleria in Buffalo and Carousel Center in Syracuse, both Pyramid properties, have had "parental escort" for several years.
At the CambridgeSide Galleria in Cambridge, Mass., officials have shunned a curfew and instead enlisted the help of school police officers and others who often know the youths who flock to the mall, said Vice President Issie Shait.
"There's no doubt it's going to affect sales," Shait said.
James Sherin, president of the Retail Council of New York State, said, "Anything in general that controls the non-shopping behavior of the mall is not a bad thing."
"But like anything, there is a fine balance," said Sherin.
"You have to make sure that mall does not cross the line."
The rulesAnyone younger than 18 must be accompanied by a parent or guardian, 21 or older.
Rule applies Fridays and Saturdays, 4 p.m. to closing.
One guardian is permitted to supervise up to five youths, who must stay with their guardian.
Young people must be prepared to show a driver's license, state identification card, military or college ID, passport or visa.
Exceptions include
Unaccompanied access is permitted to any store or restaurant with a door to the outside of the mall.
Unaccompanied access is permitted to movie theaters as long as youths use the nearest door and go directly to the theater.
Employees under 18 are also exempt while working.
Source: Crossgates Mall