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jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Mar 11 2005, 08:54 AM)
" Democracy is taking hold in the Middle East. "

*

The only place democracy has taken hold in the Middle East is in a small country called Israel.
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Mar 11 2005, 08:54 AM)
How could a man who tells us he reads his Bible every day, not be telling us the truth?


Ahah! That's it. For the same reason he spent 20 minutes reading "My Pet Goat." He can't read beyond a first grade level. So he may "read" the Bible" every day, but he cannot comprehend its message.

Explains a lot.
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 11 2005, 05:17 PM)
Frank Carlucci
*

Livyjr, as usual you are on a posting frenzy, writing faster than I can read.

However, the name Frank Carlucci did not escape my eye. He is a Senior Exec with The Carlyle Group, an International consortium of dealers in weapons and oil industry equipment. Used to be headed by Bush the Elder, and financed by the bin Laden family.

Nice folks
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 10 2005, 05:25 PM)
Stay away from trees?

My God, man, I live in the woods!

OH NO!

Run, Livyjr, RUN!

Oh well!
*

Did you? Where are you?
Abu Beacon
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 12 2005, 12:45 PM)
Stay away from trees?

My God, man, I live in the woods!

OH NO!

Run, Livyjr, RUN!

Oh well!

Did you? Where are you?

*


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts exactly.

Livyjr ----- Where are you?

A.B.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Mar 12 2005, 12:19 PM)
My thoughts exactly.

Livyjr ----- Where are you?

A.B.

Right here next to you guys!

The HARD BOYS come for me, they better bring a lunch, or two, or a bunch, and bring some nuclear weapons to soften me up a little, too, and maybe about ten or twenty thousand of your friends, to help hold me down, assuming you can ever catch me in the first place, inept fools that you are.

And of course, when they start on their way, I will hear their thoughts, and know they are coming towards me with ill intent, so when the hammer falls, I will not be there when it falls, I'll be behind them, watching it all go down!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Mar 11 2005, 09:54 AM)
Somehow, I believe the situation has become what it is because those in power were able to effectively do the one thing that they had to do.

And that one thing is -----

They accomplished the "dumbing down" of the citizenry.

"Democracy is taking hold in the Middle East."

In a pig's ear, it is.

It wouldn't take much to push Lebanon into another civil war.

The same could happen in Iraq.

In regards to the two assassinations which have happened recently, I use the word assassination because that's what they were, I keep going back to just one premise.

Who would gain?

In the case of Prime Minister Hairiri of Lebanon -- who gained by his death?


A.B.

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 11 2005, 06:33 PM)
Bush’s Corporate Cabinet:

Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense

Estimated total assets between $61 million and $242.5 million.

Financial disclosure report is 78 pages long (not including appendices).


Other positions: Balkan Action Council, Bilderberg Meetings; World Economic Forum (advisor); U.S. Committee on NATO (executive board); government of Singapore (International Academic Advisory Panel); BP-Amoco (consultant); the Limited Service Corp. (consultant); Bretton Woods Committee; National Strategy Forum; Alexis de Tocqueville Institution-National Security Program; Center for Strategic and International Studies Global Organization on Crime (steering committee); Committee for Common Defense; Alfalfa Club; Bohemian Club.

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 11 2005, 06:17 PM)
Committee for the Common Defense
From SourceWatch

Committee for the Common Defense is a program of the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution (AdTI).

This 'Committee for the Common Defense' sent on January 5, 1995 a letter to President Bill Clinton, signed by Melvin Laird, James Schlesinger, Donald Rumsfeld, Harold Brown, Caspar Weinberger, Frank Carlucci and Dick Cheney
.

The John M. Olin Foundation gave in 1995 to the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution $10,000 for the 'Committee for the Common Defense'.

One year later they gave $20,000 to AdTI for "The Action Plan for Defense Privatization, conducted by the Committee for the Common Defense". [2] http://www.mediatransparency.org/search_re...p?recipientID=7

This same 'Committee for the Common Defense' was in 2002 responsible for a pro-Microsoft report stating: Open Source Software May Offer Target for Terrorists http://www.adti.net/opensource_pressrelease_05_30_2002.html .

Mr. Rumsfeld was in May 2001 according to Multinational Monitor a member of the National Security Program of AdTI. [3] http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2001/01m...hcc.html#donald

It's not clear what the relationship is between that program and the 'Committee for the Common Defense'.

In February 1994 [4] http://www.pmdocs.com/PDF/2073011709_1710.PDF the committee members were:

Chairman: James Courter

Senior Advisory Board:

Frank Carlucci
Sen. Ernest Hollings
H.T. Johnson
Sen. John McCain
Rep. Dave McCurdy
Donald Rumsfeld
Rep. Ike Skelton [5] http://www.house.gov/skelton/
Robert Stuart
Rep. Robert Torricelli
John Whitehead

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 11 2005, 06:05 PM)
Alexis de Tocqueville Institution
From SourceWatch

The Alexis de Tocqueville Institution (AdTI) is an industry-funded organization which publishes propaganda from major corporations, giving it an air of respectability.

They also organize coordinated publicity and letter-writing campaigns.

They charge for both services.


Projects funded by these foundations include:

$30,000 for “the Action Plan for Defense Privatization, conducted by the Committee for the Common Defense” (Olin, 1995-1996)

Personnel

Cesar Conda [16] http://www.mises.org/econsense/postscript.asp#p407 , [17] http://reason.com/rodgers.shtml , recently was Assistant to Vice President Dick Cheney for Domestic Policy [18] http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=6248 previously was executive director of AdTI, currently on Board of Empower America.

AdTI is a part of the stable of conservative think tanks with their commentary regularly posted on the websites of the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute, Competitive Enterprise Institute, Science and Environmental Policy Project and other websites.

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 11 2005, 05:17 PM)
Lexington Institute
From SourceWatch
http://www.sourcewatch.org/wiki.phtml?titl...ngton_Institute

The Lexington Institute was founded by Merrick Carey in 1998.

Relation with the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

Many people involved in the Lexington Institute were before active at the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution (AdTI).

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 11 2005, 04:59 PM)
Dr. Daniel Goure
Vice President
Lexington Institute

Dr. Goure is a Vice President with the Lexington Institute, a nonprofit public-policy research organization headquartered in Arlington, Virginia.

He is involved in a wide range of issues as part of the institute’s national security program.

Dr. Goure is a well-known and respective presence in the national and international media, having been interviewed by all the major networks, CNN, Fox, the BBC, the New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, the Christian Science Monitor, the Chicago Tribune and the Los Angeles Times. 

He has published written extensively in over two dozen journals and periodicals.

He is also an NBC national security military analyst.

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 11 2005, 04:44 PM)
Lexington Institute
1600 Wilson Boulevard
Suite 900
Arlington, VA 22209
Phone: 703-522-5828
Fax: 703-522-5837
http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org

Mission Statement
 
It is the goal of the Lexington Institute to inform, educate, and shape the public debate of national priorities in those areas that are of surpassing importance to the future success of democracy, such as national security, education reform, tax reform, immigration and federal policy concerning science and technology.

By promoting America's ability to project power around the globe we not only defend the homeland of democracy, but also sustain the international stability in which other free-market democracies can thrive.

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 4 2005, 01:59 PM)
Automotive News

"Gas prices seen hitting record high this year - Soaring crude costs cited ahead of summer driving season"

MSNBC staff and news service reports

Updated: 12:00 p.m. ET March 4, 2005

NEW YORK - It could be a tough time for American motorists when they hit the road for the vacation season with gasoline prices poised to hit record highs.

The average pump price for self-serve gas is currently $1.92 a gallon, about 13 cents below the all-time record hit last May, and 22 cents higher than a year ago, according to the American Automobile Association.

Furthermore, oil prices are at their highest level in months and still rising.

The head of the Organization for Petroleum Exporting Countries has said crude could get as high as $80 per barrel, up from about $54 currently.

“All of the dynamics are in place for U.S. motorists to pay new record high prices again this year,” said AAA spokesman Geoff Sundstrom.

Oil prices are roughly 44 percent higher than a year ago, rising sharply in recent weeks due to a combination of colder weather, the declining value of the dollar and the world’s tight supply-demand balance.

Instability in Iraq and underlying fears about terrorism have also played a part in the rally.

QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 11 2005, 06:34 PM)
Livyjr, as usual you are on a posting frenzy, writing faster than I can read.

However, the name Frank Carlucci did not escape my eye.

He is a Senior Exec with The Carlyle Group, an International consortium of dealers in weapons and oil industry equipment.

Used to be headed by Bush the Elder, and financed by the bin Laden family.

Nice folks!

Sorry, jeffmoskin, about the posting frenzy, but I live on a borrowed computer, so, my time is cyberspace, here in the BLOG-O-SPHERE, is limited, and I couldn't stop with that CHAIN OF CONCURRENCE above here, until I got to the end, WHICH IS REALLY THE BEGINNING of the take-over of OUR America by something that I am going to call "CORPORATIA"!

And what an invention this computer really is, and God bless Al Gore for giving it to us!

CUI BONO!

Let's start there, since Mr. A.B. really got me to thinking about that when he asked that rhetorical question in the top post of this "STRING OF PEARLS" above here - WHO DOES BENEFIT FROM CONTINUED TURMOIL IN THE MIDDLE EAST?

The people who live there?

Yeah, right, give me a break!

WHO IN THE HELL IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WANTS TO LIVE IN A WAR ZONE?

Certainly not anyone who has ever been in one, which IS NOT George W. Bush and Richard "HALLIBURTON DICK" Cheney, and that is for sure, BUT ....

Let's look at these following sentences from the March 4, 2005 news article above entitled "Gas prices seen hitting record high this year - Soaring crude costs cited ahead of summer driving season", to wit:

NEW YORK - It could be a tough time for American motorists when they hit the road for the vacation season with gasoline prices poised to hit record highs.

The average pump price for self-serve gas is currently $1.92 a gallon, about 13 cents below the all-time record hit last May, and 22 cents higher than a year ago, according to the American Automobile Association.

Furthermore, oil prices are at their highest level in months and still rising.

The head of the Organization for Petroleum Exporting Countries has said crude could get as high as $80 per barrel, up from about $54 currently.

“All of the dynamics are in place for U.S. motorists to pay new record high prices again this year,” said AAA spokesman Geoff Sundstrom.

Oil prices are roughly 44 percent higher than a year ago, rising sharply in recent weeks due to a combination of colder weather, the declining value of the dollar and the world’s tight supply-demand balance.

Instability in Iraq and underlying fears about terrorism have also played a part in the rally.

end quotes

SO?

Is there a KEY WORD somewhere in there, like the word RALLY?

"Instability in Iraq and underlying fears about terrorism have also played a part in the rally".

Now, is that a Freudian slip, perhaps?

Or what?

What is this RALLY that they are talking about, and is it just an innocuous word?

OR IS IT MANNA FROM HEAVEN FOR MR. RICHARD "HALLIBURTON DICK" CHENEY AND HIS ULTRA TOP-SECRET "ENERGY ADVISORY COUNCIL", THANKS TO NINO?

AND WHO IS IN COMPLETE CONTROL OF KEEPING IRAQ, AND THE WHOLE MIDDLE EAST, UNSTABLE?

The pawns, er, people who live there, OR GEORGE W. BUSH?

WHO IS ALSO IN COMPLETE AND TOTAL CHARGE OF CONTINUING "FEARS OF TAY-RIZM" IN THE MIDDLE EAST?

Isn't that also George W. Bush?

And now, we have a RALLY in crude oil prices WHICH DOES NOT BENEFIT ANYBODY BUT DICK CHENEY AND HIS!

OR AM I MISTAKEN?

Does that RALLY in crude oil prices that are going to cause us to get gouged and raped by the OIL COMPANIES in some way benefit us?

Am I missing some stray or random psychological factor here that is operating on us as a population group, here in OUR America, that has us COLLECTIVELY WANTING, YEA, NEEDING, TO GET RAPED AND GOUGED BY DICK CHENEY AND HIS?

Or is it something different, something more basic, LIKE ALL OF US ARE GOING TO BE SLAVES TO THE COMPANY STORE, and that company store is going to be imposed upon us, BY the CORPORATIONS who form CORPORATIA?

A new world order is taking over, and we are so blind, so stupid, that it is happening right before OUR eyes, and we just don't see!

OR DO WE?

Maybe we are not blind, and we do really want this, just as the people in the last days of the Roman REPUBLIC wanted KIND MASTERS over LIBERTY!

THEY WILL BE KIND MASTERS, AFTER ALL, WON'T THEY; THE CORPORATIONS WHO ARE GOING TO TAKE AMERICA FROM US, BY FORCE, IF NECESSARY, AND TURN IT INTO A PARADISE ON EARTH FOR THEM KNOWN FOR ALL FUTURE TIME AS CORPORATIA?

KIND MASTERS so long as you don't step out of line, of course, and why anyone who does step out of line IS A TAY-RIST and deserves to die on the spot, and anyone who negotiates with TAY-RISTS, like that Calipari, why he deserves to be made an example of.

"POP THAT BOY RIGHT IN THE HEAD, AND BLOW HIM CLEAN AWAY, RIGHT OUT IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE CANDID WATCHING WORLD, JUST SO THEY KNOW, AND SO THEY WON'T EVER FORGET, WHO HOLDS THE REAL POWER HERE, AND WHO IS NOT AFRAID TO USE IT!"

"WHO WANTS SOME OF WHAT THE ITALIAN BOY JUST GOT?"

"ANYBODY?"

"NO, I DID NOT THINK SO!"


And Lebanon?

IF LEBANON IS PEACEFUL, THEN WILL THERE BE A NEED TO PROJECT AMERICAN POWER OVER THERE, AS THESE LEXINGTON INSTITUTE BOYS ARE ADVOCATING, IN THE INTERESTS OF CORPORATIA, OF COURSE, WHO SHALL REIGN OVER ALL THE EARTH, THE HEAVENS, AND THE STARS?

CUI BONO, indeed!

NOT US!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 12 2005, 01:33 PM)
The HARD BOYS come for me, they better bring a lunch, or two, or a bunch, and bring some nuclear weapons to soften me up a little, too, and maybe about ten or twenty thousand of your friends, to help hold me down, assuming you can ever catch me in the first place, inept fools that you are.

And of course, when they start on their way, I will hear their thoughts, and know they are coming towards me with ill intent, so when the hammer falls, I will not be there when it falls, I'll be behind them, watching it all go down!

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 11 2005, 06:33 PM)
Bush’s Corporate Cabinet:

Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense

Estimated total assets between $61 million and $242.5 million.

Financial disclosure report is 78 pages long (not including appendices).

And if anyone thinks that these HARD BOYS are just a figment of my imagination, or that I don't take the threat of them quite seriously, guess again, for they ARE NOT, and I do!

I take them very seriously indeed, for they are real, and they are around as well, at least my house, where a couple of weeks ago, to "get my attention", as the investigating State Trooper told me, some "AMERICAN HERO" in a four wheel drive vehicle with a snow plow attached took the time and trouble to flatten my mail box pole, which is a four-inch stainless steel pipe imbedded in concrete.

To do that, to finally push it down flat, the "AMERICAN HERO" just about dug himself down to China, spinning his wheels against the resistance of the pipe.

But these HARD BOYS, well, they just are tough enough to stick it out, and so, in the end, down went my mailbox, pole and all, and there it is to this day, the pole anyway, with the yellow paint from the snowplow blade still evident on it.

"Ya got yoreself some enemies" is what the State Trooper told me, and what I told him back is "yeah, I do, but they are cowards, aren't they, if all the guts they got is to come after my mailbox, instead of me!"

And perhaps, in the end, that is why the path of my life wended its way through Viet Nam, as it did, where I was twice-wounded, and where I saw violence in technicolor, right in front of my own face, so as to enable me today to be able to stand up to the HARD BOYS and all the harassment and intimidation crap that they so far have been able to dish out to me to date, which has been a bit more than just pushing down my mailbox and pole.

In the movie Apocalypse Now, in the beginning perhaps it was, Kurtz, the renegade American officer who has "gone up the river", says something about a "snail crawling on the edge of a razer blade", and I have yet to meet anyone who really understands what he is saying there, as for the snail, crawling on the edge of the razer blade is about as safe a place as a snail can be, SINCE THE SNAIL NEVER CRAWLS ON THE EDGE OF A RAZER BLADE, AT ALL.

The snail crawls on a layer of "slime", and so, never touches the edge of the razer blade, but anything coming for the snail would!

And it is a very powerful metaphor, indeed, especially for someone like me who years ago, decided that standing up for those weaker than me was a real American thing to do, and being a thug, or a bully, who preyed on the weak was not only cowardly, but very un-American, to boot.

Come right out in very plain sight, as I am doing in here, and stand right on the edge of the razer blade, so that all who come after you have to risk that edge cutting their own feet!

And it does.

And here, someone might ask, don't my feet get cut too, and badly?

And the answer is OF COURSE, THEY DO!

But, so far, it has not yet been fatal, and it just seems to go with the territory of being a responsible American citizen over the age of eighteen, as I see it anyway.

Look at Nathan Hale, if anybody in America even knows his name, which sadly, is doubtful!

Old Billy Howe stretched his neck for him, for standing up for OUR America, and so, I harbor no illusions whatsoever that the same fate won't befall me, as well, but so far, I am still up here, on the razer blade's edge, positively dancing a jig, like an Irish sailer just hit landfall in the HOLY GROUND again after a long voyage at sea!

An advantage to having been twice wounded in combat is that it just is no big thing anymore, the thought of having it happen again, which I would not desire, nor relish, BUT ....

The next time is simply that, the next time.

If you don't survive, what have you got to worry about, after all?

And if you do, it hurts like hell for a while, but that is just transitory, so you get over it, and drive on, as the saying goes.

I have been at this "citizenship game" that I am playing at in here for quite a while now, and while I do get disgusted, and while my standard of living has been reduced to one of abject poverty, still I am here.

Many times, "slings and arrows" have come in my direction from the BID-NESS BOYS who pray the coming of CORPORATIA and the complete and total end of any responsibility whatsoever for them; and miraculously, at the last moment, those "sings and arrows" are turned aside, SO LONG AS I DO NOT ACT TO CREATE AN ADVANTAGE FOR MYSELF OVER ANOTHER LIVING HUMAN BEING!

"He who lives by the sword had always better know where the sharp edge of that sword really is at all times, lest the sharp edge find itself pressing in on the flesh of his or her own throat."

God's words, not mine, and I heed them well.

This is no game, folks, this is in fact deadly serious stuff that I and we are about in here, and make no mistake about that!

What is at stake here for CORPORATIA?

For an answer to that, just go up to the post right above here, in the little view window, and take a look at Donald Rumsfeld's own CORPORATE WORTH of between $61 and $242 MILLION, and ask yourself this question - DOES DONALD RUMSFELD NOW HAVE ENOUGH?

And then think of all the turmoil in the world, and think how that turmoil just might benefit the corporate holdings of Donald Rumsfeld, who along with George W. Bush, and Condo Rice and Richard "HALLIBURTON DICK" Cheney, IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE TURMOIL IN THE WORLD THAT BENEFITS HIM, at OUR expense, unless, of course, you are one of those who has him as YOUR KIND MASTER, in which case, I am your enemy, right, because I certainly am not one of those here in MY America who is standing with you in YOURS?
Livyjr
Subject: Life!

I'll be happy when...

We convince ourselves that life will be better after we get married, have a baby, then another.

Then we are frustrated that the kids aren't old enough and we'll be more content when they are.

After that, we're frustrated that we have teenagers to deal with.

We will certainly be happy when they are out of that stage.

We tell ourselves that our life will be complete when our spouse gets his or her act together, when we get a nicer car, when we are able to go on a nice vacation or when we retire.

The truth is there's no better time to be happy than right now.

If not now, when?

Your life will always be filled with challenges.

It's best to admit this to yourself and decide to be happy anyway.

Happiness is the way.

So, treasure every moment that you have and treasure it more because you shared it with someone special, special enough to spend your time with ... and remember that time waits for no one.

So, stop waiting.

Until your car or home is paid off.
Until you get a new car or home.
Until your kids leave the house.
Until you go back to school.
Until you finish school.
Until you lose 10 lbs.
Until you gain 10 lbs.
Until you get married.
Until you get a divorce.
Until you have kids.
Until you retire.
Until summer..
Until spring.
Until winter.
Until fall.
Until you die.

There is no better time than right now to be happy.

Happiness is a journey, not a destination.

So work like you don't need money, love like you've never been hurt, and, dance like no one's watching.

If you want to brighten someone's day, pass this on to someone special.

I just did!
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 12 2005, 05:49 PM)
The truth is there's no better time to be happy than right now.

If not now, when?

Your life will always be filled with challenges.

It's best to admit this to yourself and decide to be happy anyway.

Happiness is the way.

*

Truer words were never spoken.

As Dorothy Parker would have said, "Well, you might as well live."
Abu Beacon
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 12 2005, 08:22 PM)
Truer words were never spoken.

As Dorothy Parker would have said, "Well, you might as well live."
*


Does anyone remember one of Dorothy Parker's more famous and risque comments ---

" If all the girls from Vassar were laid end to end ----

I wouldn't be a bit surprised ".

( Vassar administrators were somewhat unhappy with this. )

A.B.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Mar 13 2005, 05:17 AM)
Does anyone remember one of Dorothy Parker's more famous and risque comments --- 

"If all the girls from Vassar were laid end to end ----

I wouldn't be a bit surprised".

(Vassar administrators were somewhat unhappy with this.)

A.B.

Boy, Mr. A.B., what a line, and you have cracked me right up here, with it.

Well said, well done!

"I wouldn't be a bit surprised"!

I'm going to be chuckling all day long about this, I think.

In fact, maybe a "horse laugh", or two, which is never a bad thing, at all.
Livyjr
And so .......

It is a good thing to have a little levity in here from time to time, to break up the seriousness of the "commentary", and I will be the first to admit that, which is why I am glad for Mr. A.B. and jeffmoskin and Gabrielle, and those others of you who from time to time leave hints of your passage through here.

For anyone just stopping by for the first time, and maybe wondering what "Life in OUR America" is really all about, it is about life in OUR America, with an emphasis on that word "OUR"!

Who does America really belong to?

Can it even?

And what exactly is America?

These are the issues that we "delve" in here, and one of the "vehicles" by which we do that is the "news", or what purports to be the "mews", anyway, which in fact, actually may be a lot of "propaganda" at times, especially that which is put out on the radio or especially television "News", as starts to become more and more evident when we look at what I am going to call "alleged subversive" organizations" such as this "Lexington Institute" which I have begun researching above, in here.

Which brings me to the point that maybe most important thing that I discuss and explore in here is this concept of "LIBERTY", here in OUR America, and exactly what it might be, and where we have gotten the notion of "LIBERTY" from, IF in fact "LIBERTY" is nothing more than a "notion".

Those of us who comment in here, myself, jeffmoskin and Mr. A.B. in large part, are all what might or could be called "older Americans", althought to be truthful, I have trouble thinking of myself as being any age, really.

If you are alive, what else makes a difference?

What's the NEED to have an "age"?

I don't find being alive now any different than when I was young, to be truthful, IN ESSENTIAL WAYS INTRINSIC TO BEING A HUMAN BEING!

Certainly, the times around me have changed, but they always have been doing so, and they always will be!

It is the essential nature of things to rise, and then settle again, sometimes into oblivion, sometimes simply back into a state of quiesence or dormancy.

For those of you who remember "LAVA LAMPS", that is my concept of the workings of the universe we inhabit, either in here, or "out there", something rising, something settling, or maybe sinking, although "sinking" is a misleading term, in actuality, since it implies something going out of sight, perhaps forever, and with respect to the workings of "mankind", that is a form of delusion, perhaps, to consider something passing by, or out of style, as being really "gone".

Case in point is this thing called "LIBERTY", which IS NOT AT ALL AN AMERICAN CONCEPT?

"WHAT, LIVYJR, ARE YOU A COMMUNIST OR SOMETHING, EVERYBODY KNOWS IT WAS AMERICANS WHO INVENTED THE TERM 'LIBERTY', SO YOU MUST HATE AMERICA, THEN, TO TALK THAT WAY!"

And NO, everybody DOES NOT KNOW that LIBERTY is or was "invented" by Americans, BECAUSE IT WAS NOT, and I am not a communist, since that is nothing more than a stupid, empty word fraught with connotation, but devoid of any actual, substantive meaning whatsoever.

It is nothing more than a pejorative term that can be slung handily at one's political enemies, to fool the naive and just plain ignorant, and outside of that, it don't mean nothing at all, to me, anyway, who has met plenty of people from alleged Communist countries, and after looking at them for a while, and talking to them, why, they look human to me, and many of them are decent hard-working people so far as I can tell, so what's with the word?

In fact, back in the days of the Ronald Raygun presidency, when he was going on and on and on and on and on about the "Evil Empire" of Russia, I had occasion to have to go to Ireland on business, and with me were two other Americans, and when we got to Shannon Airport in Ireland, why, lined up outside the terminal, off-loading and taking on passengers were several Aeroflot airplanes, which were Russian planes.

When the one "ole boy" with me saw that, he went near apoplectic, with his eyes bugging out, and right there in the airport, in front of the world in there, he began an incredible rant about "COMMIES, will ya looka that, they let COMMIES into this country, what the hell is this", and on and on and on.

It was quite embarassing, to be truthful, and it caused a bit of a scene, to boot.

As if the Irish should have checked in with us before we got there, TO DETERMINE OUR PREJUDICES, so that they could then INSURE that everything that we did not like, would not be found in the whole of IRELAND!

What a crock!

Later, I asked some Irish people about the Aeroflot planes, and them apparently having some kind of commerce with the Russians at a time when Ronald Raygun was near to bursting a vein in his own head with his own apoplectic fits of pique about the Russians, and the Irish thought he AND WE were nothing more than a raving pack pure fools!

"A HELL of a lot better folks than the British" was how I recall one person saying it!

"AT LEAST THE RUSSIANS HAVE NEVER TRIED TO STEAL ANYTHING FROM US, LIKE OUR COUNTRY AND LIBERTY!"

SO.

Perspective!

Not a bad thing to have, either these days, OR EVER!

Life in OUR AMERICA!

And let us have it be OURS, and not give it over lightly to the bigots, and the haters, out there, who would gladly take it from us and make it into an image of themselves, instead.
Livyjr
SUBVERSION: The act or process of overthrowing, destroying OR CORRUPTING!

- Black's Law Dictionary
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 07:49 AM)
SUBVERSION: The act or process of overthrowing, destroying OR CORRUPTING!

- Black's Law Dictionary

From New York State Penal Law:

TITLE X ORGANIZED CRIME CONTROL ACT

ARTICLE 460 ENTERPRISE CORRUPTION

S 460.00 Legislative findings.


The legislature finds and determines as follows:

Organized crime in New York state involves highly sophisticated, complex and widespread forms of criminal activity.

The diversified illegal conduct engaged in by organized crime, rooted in the illegal use of force, fraud, and corruption, constitutes a major drain upon the state's economy, costs citizens and businesses of the state billions of dollars each year, and threatens the peace, security and general welfare of the people of the state.

Organized crime continues to expand its corrosive influence in the state through illegal enterprises engaged in such criminal endeavors as the theft and fencing of property, the importation and distribution of narcotics and other dangerous drugs, arson for profit, hijacking, labor racketeering, loansharking, extortion and bribery, the illegal disposal of hazardous wastes, syndicated gambling, trafficking in stolen securities, insurance and investment frauds, and other forms of economic and social exploitation.

The money and power derived by organized crime through its illegal enterprises and endeavors is increasingly being used to infiltrate and corrupt businesses, unions and other legitimate enterprises and to corrupt our democratic processes.

S 460.10 Definitions.

The following definitions are applicable to this article.

2. "Enterprise" means either an enterprise as defined in subdivision one of section 175.00 of this chapter or criminal enterprise as defined in subdivision three of this section.

ARTICLE 175 OFFENSES INVOLVING FALSE WRITTEN STATEMENTS

S 175.00 Definitions of terms.

The following definitions are applicable to this article:

1. "Enterprise" means any entity of one or more persons, corporate or otherwise, public or private, engaged in business, commercial, professional, industrial, eleemosynary, social, political or governmental activity.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 12 2005, 05:34 PM)
"Ya got yoreself some enemies" is what the State Trooper told me, and what I told him back is "yeah, I do, but they are cowards, aren't they, if all the guts they got is to come after my mailbox, instead of me!"

And perhaps, in the end, that is why the path of my life wended its way through Viet Nam, as it did, where I was twice-wounded, and where I saw violence in technicolor, right in front of my own face, so as to enable me today to be able to stand up to the HARD BOYS and all the harassment and intimidation crap that they so far have been able to dish out to me to date, which has been a bit more than just pushing down my mailbox and pole.

I have been at this "citizenship game" that I am playing at in here for quite a while now, and while I do get disgusted, and while my standard of living has been reduced to one of abject poverty, still I am here.

Many times, "slings and arrows" have come in my direction from the BID-NESS BOYS who pray the coming of CORPORATIA and the complete and total end of any responsibility whatsoever for them; and miraculously, at the last moment, those "sings and arrows" are turned aside, SO LONG AS I DO NOT ACT TO CREATE AN ADVANTAGE FOR MYSELF OVER ANOTHER LIVING HUMAN BEING!

"He who lives by the sword had always better know where the sharp edge of that sword really is at all times, lest the sharp edge find itself pressing in on the flesh of his or her own throat."

God's words, not mine, and I heed them well.

This is no game, folks, this is in fact deadly serious stuff that I and we are about in here, and make no mistake about that!

What is at stake here for CORPORATIA?

For an answer to that, just go up to the post right above here, in the little view window, and take a look at Donald Rumsfeld's own CORPORATE WORTH of between $61 and $242 MILLION, and ask yourself this question - DOES DONALD RUMSFELD NOW HAVE ENOUGH?

And then think of all the turmoil in the world, and think how that turmoil just might benefit the corporate holdings of Donald Rumsfeld, who along with George W. Bush, and Condo Rice and Richard "HALLIBURTON DICK" Cheney, IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE TURMOIL IN THE WORLD THAT BENEFITS HIM, at OUR expense, unless, of course, you are one of those who has him as YOUR KIND MASTER, in which case, I am your enemy, right, because I certainly am not one of those here in MY America who is standing with you in YOURS?

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 08:22 AM)
From New York State Penal Law:

TITLE X ORGANIZED CRIME CONTROL ACT

ARTICLE 460 ENTERPRISE CORRUPTION

S 460.00 Legislative findings.


The legislature finds and determines as follows:

Organized crime in New York state involves highly sophisticated, complex and widespread forms of criminal activity.

The diversified illegal conduct engaged in by organized crime, rooted in the illegal use of force, fraud, and corruption, constitutes a major drain upon the state's economy, costs citizens and businesses of the state billions of dollars each year, and threatens the peace, security and general welfare of the people of the state.

The money and power derived by organized crime through its illegal enterprises and endeavors is increasingly being used to infiltrate and corrupt businesses, unions and other legitimate enterprises and to corrupt our democratic processes.

S 460.10 Definitions.

The following definitions are applicable to this article.

2. "Enterprise" means either an enterprise as defined in subdivision one of section 175.00 of this chapter or criminal enterprise as defined in subdivision three of this section.

ARTICLE 175 OFFENSES INVOLVING FALSE WRITTEN STATEMENTS

S 175.00 Definitions of terms.

The following definitions are applicable to this article:

1. "Enterprise" means any entity of one or more persons, corporate or otherwise, public or private, engaged in business, commercial, professional, industrial, eleemosynary, social, political or governmental activity.

SO?

How about this for a question, then, CAN A "POLITICAL PARTY", such as the REPUBLICAN PARTY be considered an "ENTERPRISE" in the State of New York for the purposes of Title X, Article 460 of the New York State Penal Law?

YES?

OR, NO?

AND, can a political party such as the REPUBLICAN PARTY be involved in "ENTERPRISE CORRUPTION"?

YES?

OR, NO?

CAN MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, who are "an entity of one or more persons engaged in political or governmental activity" be suspected of CORRUPTING OUR DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES?

OR ARE ALL REPUBLICANS ACTUALLY BEYOND THE REACH OF ANY AND ALL LAWS, SUCH AS ARTICLE 460 OF TITLE X OF THE NEW YORK STATE PENAL LAW BECAUSE THEY ALREADY ALLEGEDLY CONTROL THOSE SAME DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES, AND SO CAN "SAY" WHAT "CORRUPTION" REALLY MEANS, OR IS, ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN "DEFINITION" OF THE WORD, OR TERM?

Most definitely questions for OUR times, at least up here in George Pataki's EMPIRE STATE, and here I will say, having been involved in the answering of these questions since the 1980's, that IT IS VERY DANGEROUS INDEED TO ONE'S HEALTH AND WELL-BEING TO EVEN CONSIDER THAT THESE QUESTIONS MIGHT EXIST, OR THAT A MERE CITIZEN HAS A RIGHT TO CONSIDER FIRST ASKING THEM, AND THEN SETTING OUT TO PROVE, BY DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE, THAT CONCRETE ANSWERS ACTUALLY CAN AND DO EXIST, AND THAT THOSE ANSWERS JUST MIGHT BE IN THE AFFIRMATIVE!

"Don't watch your ***, boy, you just might find yourself getting whacked!"

"Yeah right, send me a fax, and let me know when it happened!"
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 05:56 AM)
Boy, Mr. A.B., what a line, and you have cracked me right up here, with it.

Well said, well done!

"I wouldn't be a bit surprised"!

I'm going to be chuckling all day long about this, I think.

In fact, maybe a "horse laugh", or two, which is never a bad thing, at all.
*

or...

"You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think."
jeffmoskin
On a more serious note, way back somewhere in this thread we were talking about the raising of the flag on Mt Suribachi on Iwo Jima, culminating one of the worst meat-grinder ordeals of WW II. A man I know was a doc on a hospital ship just offshore. He saw a lot of wounded Marines.

Here is an excerpt from an article by Max Boot in the LA Times:


Rethinking the Iwo Jima Myth
Max Boot

March 10, 2005

On Feb. 19, 1945, 30,000 Marines splashed ashore on a small volcanic island in the central Pacific. After four days of bitter fighting, a small patrol reached the peak of Mt. Suribachi, where it planted a U.S. flag in an iconic scene captured by photographer Joe Rosenthal. This famous image was hardly the end of the battle. Iwo Jima would not be secure until March 26. Almost all of the 21,000 Japanese defenders elected to die rather than surrender. Rooting them out cost more than 6,000 American dead and 20,000 wounded, making this the costliest battle in the storied history of the Marine Corps.

It is right and proper that there should be 60th-anniversary commemorations of these heroics. For, as Fleet Adm. Chester Nimitz famously said, " … on Iwo Island, uncommon valor was a common virtue." Yet it would be a mistake to bury this battle in a haze of "Greatest Generation" sentimentality. Our awe at the bravery of the Marines and their Japanese adversaries should not cause us to overlook the stupidity that forced them into this unnecessary meat grinder. Selective memories of World War II, which record only inspiring deeds and block out all waste and folly, create an impossible standard of perfection against which to judge contemporary conflicts.

That is why Marine Capt. Robert S. Burrell, a history instructor at the Naval Academy, has performed a valuable service by publishing in the October 2004 issue of the Journal of Military History an article called "Breaking the Cycle of Iwo Jima Mythology." Burrell examines the planning of Operation Detachment, as the invasion was known, and shows that it was badly bungled.

The planners actually thought that Iwo Jima would be lightly defended. Nimitz had no idea that the Japanese had been preparing an elaborate defensive network of caves, bunkers and tunnels. As a result, he failed to allocate enough aircraft or warships to seriously dent the enemy defenses before the infantry landings. This oversight consigned the Marines to what a war correspondent called "a nightmare in hell." And for what?

The rationales for taking the island were shaky at the time and utterly specious in hindsight. The original impetus came from the U.S. Army Air Forces, which wanted a base from which fighters could escort B-29 Superfortress bombers on missions over Japan. But Iwo Jima was so far away from most Japanese targets — a 1,500-mile round trip — that even the newest fighter, the P-51D Mustang, lacked sufficient range and navigational equipment for that purpose. In any case, Japanese air defenses were so weak that B-29s didn't need any escort; they were able to reduce Japanese cities to ashes on their own.

When the fighter-escort mission didn't pan out, U.S. commanders had to come up with another rationale for why 26,000 casualties had not been in vain. After the war, it was claimed that Iwo Jima had been a vital emergency landing field for crippled B-29s on their way back from Japan. In a much-quoted statistic, the Air Force reported that 2,251 Superforts landed on Iwo, and because each one carried 11 crewmen, a total of 24,761 airmen were saved.

Burrell demolishes these spurious statistics. Most of those landings, he shows, were not for emergencies but for training or to take on extra fuel or bombs. If Iwo Jima hadn't been in U.S. hands, most of the four-engine bombers could have made it back to their bases in the Mariana Islands 625 miles away. And even if some had been forced to ditch at sea, many of their crewmen would have been rescued by the Navy. Burrell concludes that Iwo Jima was "helpful" to the U.S. bombing effort but hardly worth the price in blood.

...end excerpt.

He then goes on to draw a parallel with Bush's bungling in Iraq, attributing it to the uncertainties of war, so I cut it iff where I did. I don't need his apoligies for the neo CON ARTISTS.

I also disagree about Iwo not being vital to us. It was. We needed it as a staging area for the air attack on Japan, P-51s or not. It had three airfields ready to go. Proof of its importance to the US is how much effort the Japanese took to make sure we didn't capture it! Their soldiers were instructed to DIE defending it. No retreat, no surrender.

Sounds like an important island to me.

I don't know why I'm posting this. It just looked like a fresh view to explain away some old myths.
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 13 2005, 10:09 AM)
I don't know why I'm posting this.

It just looked like a fresh view to explain away some old myths.

All points of view are ultimately important in coming to an informed point-of-view on issues of importance to all of us, here in OUR America.

Iwo Jima to me, was simply Iwo Jima!

What took place there, took place, and as a warrior, I attach no values to that battle above any others.

"Conduct your victories as though in mourning!"

Was this island important?

I would agree with you, jeffmoskin, that it was!

Should it be glorified?

There is the question!

I would say, "conduct your victories as though in mourning!"
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 13 2005, 10:09 AM)
Here is an excerpt from an article by Max Boot in the LA Times:

"Rethinking the Iwo Jima Myth"

Max Boot

March 10, 2005

He then goes on to draw a parallel with Bush's bungling in Iraq, attributing it to the uncertainties of war, so I cut it off where I did.

I don't need his apologies for the neo CON ARTISTS.

Uncertainties of war?

What a crock!

What war?

It was an invasion of Iraq by land to support an airborne take-over of the oil fields in Iraq, kind of a "Bridge Too Far" scenario, Operation Market-Garden all over again, except this time, by pre-arrangment, many Iraqi military units had agreed to not resist.

They stood down while we went in and caputred Baghdad.

What war?

Hence, HOW CAN THERE BE ANY REAL UNCERTAINTIES?

THE CERTAINTY IS THAT THIS BUSH CO. CROWD HAD NO IDEAS AT ALL WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN ONCE THE AIRBORNE GUYS HIT THE GROUND, AND SO, IT HAS BEEN UNCERTAINTY, AND KNEE-JERKNG, FOR THEM EVER SINCE!

Now, Bush Co. has the PROPAGANDISTS WORKING OVERTIME TO TRY AND GLOSS OVER HIS INEPTNESS AS A COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, and the question on everybody's mind is whether they will be able to pull that off.

Interestingly, there is now on the cable channel a friend of mine gets, something called the MILITARY CHANNEL, and on that channel, they are showing what is purported by them to be LIVE FOOTAGE of OUR military units on operations inside Iraq.

I go there on Sunday mornings, and watch this footage, which is extremely revealing of a lot of things, one of which is that this war is TV ENTERTAINMENT, AND BIG-TIME, AT THAT!

IN FACT, THE WHOLE THING, AS I WATCHED IT, IS STAGED FOR TV!

This morning, the TV showed the "troops", who are like "MOVIE ACTORS", going through Iraqi houses, and searching through people's possessions, and I was watching the Iraqi people while this was happening, watching their faces, watching their demeanor, because they are on camera too, as their homes and possessions are being rifled through and trifled with; and I was thinking that in Viet Nam, where we were doing that same crap, as we were doing that, and especially when we left, we would be "SHADOWED", and they would see who we were, and where we were going, and knowing the land, they would hit us as soon, and as hard as they could, in retaliation.

Each time another village got torn apart, or a person robbed, or a house searched, more retaliation would come OUR way, and since we were the stangers there, without a home, so to speak, we were on the losing end.

What I saw on TV this morning IS MORE FORMULA FOR THE SAME, from the NEW CON FOOLS WHO CONTROL THE PUPPET GEORGE W. BUSH!

And they are broadcasting all of this to the CANDID WORLD!

INCREDIBLE!
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 13 2005, 10:09 AM)
Here is an excerpt from an article by Max Boot in the LA Times:

"Rethinking the Iwo Jima Myth" by Max Boot

March 10, 2005

He then goes on to draw a parallel with Bush's bungling in Iraq, attributing it to the uncertainties of war, so I cut it off where I did.

I don't need his apologies for the neo CON ARTISTS.

I don't know why I'm posting this.

It just looked like a fresh view to explain away some old myths.

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 02:51 PM)
George W. Bush is most definitely a secular leader here, with what appears to be a very powerful "GOD-complex" in what I am viewing as a very passionate "PASSION PLAY", and I believe that what is happening right now is some of the most important times for all on earth that we have ever been in, and I believe that OUR collective thoughts are very important, right now, especially in light of what took place out there in Wisconsin, with this SECT-related killing that just took place out there.

Somehow, words are being given TO US to consider, and I think that is what is really important, while at the same time continuing to observe the actions of George W. Bush, who to me is really a BELWEATHER here, like a clock ticking away the hours and minutes until doomsday goes down.

Stay tuned!

Jungian synchronicity, jeffmoskin?

U.S. National - AP

"Wisc. Sect Focused on 'End Time' Prophecy"

1 hour, 25 minutes ago

By The Associated Press

Terry Ratzmann, the man who police say killed seven people and then himself during a church service, was a member of the Living Church of God, a denomination that focuses on "end-time" prophecies.

The church's estimated 6,300 members in 40 countries place a strong emphasis on using world news to "prove" that these are end times, to be followed by Christ's second coming.


This year, the group's leader, Dr. Roderick C. Meredith, wrote that events prophesied in the Bible are "beginning to occur with increasing frequency."

"We are not talking about decades in the future."

"We are talking about Bible prophesies that will intensify within the next five to 15 years of your life," he wrote in the church's magazine, Tomorrow's World.

He advised members to gather emergency food supplies and follow government instructions on how to prepare for an emergency.

He also warned about a coming "financial emergency" and cited an article from the San Francisco Chronicle about the financial fallout as baby boomers retire.

The Charlotte, N.C.-based Living Church of God grew out of a schism in the Worldwide Church of God, formed in 1933 as the Radio Church of God by Herbert W. Armstrong.

Armstrong, an Oregon advertising man, preached that Anglo-Americans were Jews, descendants of the lost "ten tribes of Israel."

The Worldwide Church of God changed their doctrine after Armstrong's death in 1986, but more than half the membership withdrew and formed splinter groups.

Meredith and Raymond McNair led one of the numerous groups that broke away, forming what was then called the "Global Church of God" in 1992 to perpetuate Armstrong's original teachings.

Armstrong's followers worshipped Saturday mornings, as Ratzmann did, and often rented facilities rather than erecting its own buildings.

Adherents believe in faith healing and strict opposition to divorce, among other things.

Members are told to shun worldly involvements, including politics, military service or participation in juries.
___

Sources:

Encyclopedia of American Religions, 7th edition.

Living Church of God: http://www.livingcog.org

Center for Studies on New Religions: http://www.cesnur.org

end quotes

Follow government instructions on how to prepare for an emergency?

HHHHHhhhhmmmmm.

YES!

Does anyone smell the "smell" of Karl Rove in here?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 03:48 PM)
Jungian synchronicity, jeffmoskin?

U.S. National - AP
 
"Wisc. Sect Focused on 'End Time' Prophecy"

By The Associated Press

Terry Ratzmann, the man who police say killed seven people and then himself during a church service, was a member of the Living Church of God, a denomination that focuses on "end-time" prophecies.

The church's estimated 6,300 members in 40 countries place a strong emphasis on using world news to "prove" that these are end times, to be followed by Christ's second coming.


This year, the group's leader, Dr. Roderick C. Meredith, wrote that events prophesied in the Bible are "beginning to occur with increasing frequency."

"We are not talking about decades in the future."

"We are talking about Bible prophesies that will intensify within the next five to 15 years of your life," he wrote in the church's magazine, Tomorrow's World.

He advised members to gather emergency food supplies and follow government instructions on how to prepare for an emergency.

end quotes

Follow government instructions on how to prepare for an emergency?

HHHHHhhhhmmmmm.

YES!

Does anyone smell the "smell" of Karl Rove in here?

Or in here, for that matter?

The coming of CORPORATIA is upon us!

And George W. Bush is alleged to be the "SECOND COMING OF CHRIST" predicted by these "END OF TIME" people in that LIVING CHURCH OF GOD, above, which prophecy may have triggered this man to kill all those other people, and himself!

Positively uncanny stuff going on here, is what I think!

"AP review: Gov't reducing access to info"

By MARTHA MENDOZA, Associated Press
Last updated: 3:27 p.m., Sunday, March 13, 2005

Since 1998, many federal departments have been reducing the amount of information they release to the public -- even as the government fields and answers more requests for information than ever, an Associated Press review has found.

The locations of stores and restaurants that have received recalled meat, the names of detainees held by the U.S. overseas and details about Vice President Dick Cheney's 2001 energy policy task force are all among the records that the government isn't sharing with the public.

The tightening began even before the Sept. 11 attacks, and now government defenders say the nation needs protection from its enemies in the war on terror.

But open government advocates worry that U.S. citizens' freedom is eroding with every file they can't access.

"This is an immensely troubling clampdown," said Steve Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists' Secrecy Project.

"The law itself is unchanged, but it's being interpreted more broadly to withhold more information."

Under the 38-year-old Freedom of Information Act, the so-called "sunshine law," the federal government is supposed to share its records with the public, though it may withhold material for national security reasons or to protect the privacy of individuals or businesses.

In a review of about 130 annual FOIA reports submitted to the Justice Department by the 15 executive departments between 1998 and 2004, the AP found that:

--Requests for public records have been on the rise and jumped by another 1 million after the Sept. 11 attacks, topping 3.2 million in 2003.

More than half of this increase was due to an unusually large number of requests received by the Social Security Administration, where requests are ordinarily simple, personal and turned around on the same day they are received.

The next largest category consisted of queries to the Veterans Administration about personal records.

--The total number of requests being granted in full has increased from about 66 percent of all requests in 1998 to 88 percent in 2003.

However, a closer look at those figures shows that almost all of the increase came from requests made to the Social Security and Veteran's administrations.

--The percentage of requested information that is eventually released in full has been declining since 1998 at the Agriculture, Commerce, Defense, Education, Interior, State, Transportation and Treasury departments.

The Justice Department began reducing the information it releases in full after the 2001 attacks.

--At the CIA, just 12 percent of the FOIA requests processed were granted in total in 2004, down from 44 percent in 1998.

The FBI gave people asking for records everything they asked for just 1 percent of the time in 2004, compared to 5 percent in 1998.

The AP's review started from 1998 because that's when all federal agencies and departments were required to standardize their annual reports about FOIA requests.

After the Sept. 11 attacks, the Bush administration set a higher threshold for disclosure, advising agencies to make sure the information they released would not jeopardize national security.

But Charles Davis, executive director of the Freedom of Information Center at the University of Missouri-Columbia, has said that court decisions before 2001 indicated the momentum already was swinging toward closing off information.

Edward Whelan, president of the Washington-based Ethics and Public Policy Center and a former Justice Department legal adviser, said it was logical for government officials to reevaluate the information they release after the Sept. 11 attacks.

"In the aggregate, there's good reason that there would be an increased recognition on the government's part that information previously thought to be harmless is, in fact, sensitive," he said.

In addition to decreasing some types of information released under FOIA, the federal government is increasing the number of documents deemed secret and has pulled thousands of documents and databases off public Web sites.

The federal government -- not including the CIA -- created 14 million new classified documents in fiscal year 2003, a 60 percent increase over 2001, according to the Information Security Oversight Office.

At the same time, the agency reports that it cut back on the number of documents that were declassified.

"The Bush administration's attitude is that public information is largely a dangerous thing in the wrong hands."

"Because there's some people who could use this information improperly, we shouldn't let anybody see it."

"I just think secrecy of that nature is almost always the exact wrong decision," said Harry Hammitt, who publishes Access Reports, a newsletter on Freedom of Information laws.

But officials involved in national security note that, in a post 9/11 world, disclosure of some material can put the public at risk.

States all have their own public records laws, and have closely followed the federal government's lead.

Since Sept. 11, 2001, at least 20 states have proposed new laws to control public records, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

These changes mostly try to prevent terrorists from seeing evacuation, emergency and security plans.

But in the process, limits are being placed on everything from birth and death records to architectural and engineering drawings of public buildings, said Davis, at the University of Missouri-Columbia.

A new state-by-state study of public records laws by the Better Government Association concluded that the array of legislation is so haphazard that it hampers "the citizenry's ability to examine even the most fundamental actions of government."

Sens. John Cornyn, R-Texas, and Patrick Leahy, D-Vermont, introduced a bill in February that would significantly reform federal FOIA laws, requiring agencies to give people seeking documents a tracking number that could be checked online.

The bill also aims to reduce the kinds of excuses the government can give for refusing to release material.

The AP found several excuses are being used much more frequently by the security agencies than in past.

For example, the Justice Department has doubled the percentage of rejections because there are "no records" from 10 percent to 20 percent since 1998.

At the FBI, a Justice Department agency, about 37 percent of all requests were refused in 1998 for that reason -- but that number bumped up to about 55 percent last year.

FBI officials say this reflects an increase in the percentage of requests they receive for reports they simply don't have, though FOIA does allow agencies in some cases involving criminal law, terrorism and foreign intelligence to say "no records" when they do exist.

Some advocates, meanwhile, say that agencies aren't looking hard enough for records or are being disingenuous to the public.

The FBI is being sued by a Salt Lake City attorney who claims that he was told no records existed in a case when they were, in fact, being held in the agency's files.

Another reason for rejecting a citizen's FOIA request -- that the documents are internal administrative records that are of no interest to the public or could make it easy to circumvent the agency -- also is on the rise at the State, Justice, Defense and Transportation departments and at the FBI and CIA.

Former Attorney General John Ashcroft had urged departments to consider using this exemption as a way to prevent release of in-house studies that showed weaknesses in various systems such as dams, nuclear power plants and pipelines.

The CIA used this exemption fewer than 10 times a year in 1998, 1999 and 2000.

In 2004, the CIA used it 101 times.

Leahy, who is calling for a new FOIA ombudsman, said he's concerned that the law is being weakened.

"The Freedom of Information Act is an invigorating mechanism that helps keep our government more open and effective and closer to the American people," he said.

"FOIA has had serious setbacks in recent years that endanger its effectiveness."

------

EDITOR'S NOTE -- The week of March 13 has been declared Sunshine Week by media organizations and other groups pressing for government access, contending information is being withheld more often by officials who cite post-Sept. 11 security concerns. This is the last part of a two-part series examining the use of the Freedom of Information Act by U.S. citizens, and the government's willingness to make its records available. ------

On the Net:

Sunshine Week: http://www.sunshineweek.org/
Livyjr
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Mar 11 2005, 09:54 AM)
Somehow, I believe the situation has become what it is because those in power were able to effectively do the one thing that they had to do.

And that one thing is -----

They accomplished the "dumbing down" of the citizenry.

How could a man who tells us he reads his Bible every day, not be telling us the truth?

"Democracy is taking hold in the Middle East?"

In a pig's ear, it is.

It wouldn't take much to push Lebanon into another civil war.


A.B.

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 12 2005, 03:16 PM)
CUI BONO!

Let's start there, since Mr. A.B. really got me to thinking about that when he asked that rhetorical question in the top post of this "STRING OF PEARLS" above here - WHO DOES BENEFIT FROM CONTINUED TURMOIL IN THE MIDDLE EAST?

The people who live there?

Yeah, right, give me a break!

WHO IN THE HELL IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WANTS TO LIVE IN A WAR ZONE?

And Lebanon?

IF LEBANON IS PEACEFUL, THEN WILL THERE BE A NEED TO PROJECT AMERICAN POWER OVER THERE, AS THESE LEXINGTON INSTITUTE BOYS ARE ADVOCATING, IN THE INTERESTS OF CORPORATIA, OF COURSE, WHO SHALL REIGN OVER ALL THE EARTH, THE HEAVENS, AND THE STARS?

CUI BONO, indeed!

NOT US!

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 05:19 PM)
The coming of CORPORATIA is upon us!

And George W. Bush is alleged to be the "SECOND COMING OF CHRIST" predicted by these "END OF TIME" people in that LIVING CHURCH OF GOD, above, which prophecy may have triggered this man to kill all those other people, and himself!

Positively uncanny stuff going on here, is what I think!

"AP review: Gov't reducing access to info" 
 
By MARTHA MENDOZA, Associated Press
Last updated: 3:27 p.m., Sunday, March 13, 2005

Since 1998, many federal departments have been reducing the amount of information they release to the public -- even as the government fields and answers more requests for information than ever, an Associated Press review has found.

The locations of stores and restaurants that have received recalled meat, the names of detainees held by the U.S. overseas and details about Vice President Dick Cheney's 2001 energy policy task force are all among the records that the government isn't sharing with the public.

"The Bush administration's attitude is that public information is largely a dangerous thing in the wrong hands."

And while we are being shut right out of OUR own government over here, BY THE BUSH CO.'S, and wierd stuff is happening vis-a-vis the END OF THE WORLD folks, and the Bush Co., what is happening in Mr. A.B.'s Lebanon, BECAUSE of the Bush Co.?

World - Reuters

"Syrian-Backed Hizbollah Rallies Against U.S."

1 hour, 45 minutes ago

By Kamel Jaber

NABATIYEH, Lebanon (Reuters) - Hundreds of thousands of people turned out for a Hizbollah rally against the United States Sunday, even as a U.N. envoy met the Lebanese president to press demands for a Syrian pullout.

Washington, leading the calls for Syria to withdraw its forces from the country, said it welcomed promises by Damascus to do so but wanted to see deeds and not just words.

Many placards at Hizbollah's demonstration in the southern town of Nabatiyeh said "No to foreign intervention," but were aimed at the United States and Israel, not Syria.

"America out!" yelled supporters of the Syrian-backed Shi'ite Muslim group, mocking the chants of "Syria out" at opposition demonstrations in recent weeks.

It was the second time in a week the Hizbollah guerrilla group, Lebanon's most powerful political organization and the only one with weapons, had flexed its muscles.

Hundreds of thousands of people gathered in central Beirut Tuesday to support Hizbollah's right to bear arms and to thank Syria for its role in Lebanon, where Damascus has kept troops since intervening in the country's civil war in 1976.

Waving Lebanese flags, the crowd chanted "Death to America, death to Israel" at the rally organized by Hizbollah and the smaller Shi'ite Amal party.

A few burned U.S. and Israeli flags.

U.N. envoy Terje Roed-Larsen met Lebanese leaders and opposition figures Sunday on United Nations resolution 1559, which calls for foreign forces to withdraw from Lebanon and the disarming of all militias there.

Roed-Larsen said he and President Emile Lahoud agreed at a "constructive" meeting that elections, expected in May, must go ahead on time.

Political tensions had stirred talk of a delay.

Roed-Larsen last visited Lebanon days before the Feb. 14 killing of former Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri, which sparked daily protests in Beirut against the Syrians many blamed.

Roed-Larsen said Saturday Syrian President Bashar al-Assad had promised to withdraw all his troops and intelligence agents from Lebanon in line with the resolution.

He said he would present U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan next week with details on a timetable for a complete pullout.

Witnesses said personnel were packing up to leave at three main intelligence centers, taking down flags and huge pictures of Assad and his late father Hafez al-Assad.

Syrian troops left their posts in Mount Lebanon, northeast of Beirut.

Some crossed the Syrian border, where several hundred Lebanese showered the departing soldiers with rice and flowers.

Washington cautiously welcomed Assad's promise to the U.N. envoy, having previously demanded Syria's immediate withdrawal.

"Initial reports are encouraging," White House national security adviser Stephen Hadley told U.S. Fox television on Sunday.

"In the end of the day, it's going to be deeds, not words, that matter."

SUPPORT FOR HIZBOLLAH'S ARMS

Hizbollah, the main guerrilla group which fought Israeli occupation of Lebanon's south, was allowed to keep its arms after the civil war to fight Israeli forces occupying the south.

It claimed credit for driving them out in 2000.

Foreign Minister Mahmoud Hammoud told reporters Lebanon's leaders had told Roed-Larsen they rejected the part of 1559 calling for militias in Lebanon to be disarmed.

"We said to him: We don't have any militias, we have a resistance that is supported by all the Lebanese people," he said.

Protesters, mostly Shi'ites but joined by Druze and others, came from across southern Lebanon to support Hizbollah's armed "Islamic resistance," witnesses said.

Some protesters held up Lebanese identity cards so that no one could say they had been bussed in from Syria, as some media reported happened at last week's Hizbollah rally in Beirut.

Lebanon's anti-Syrian opposition movement plans to hold a big demonstration in central Beirut Monday, a month to the day since Hariri was killed.

They have demanded an international investigation into his death.

A few thousand protesters held a candlelit vigil in Beirut's Martyrs Square Sunday evening.

Hundreds of flickering flames formed the word "Truth."

end quotes

Truth!

Something we could use over here as well, but are unlikely to get from this Bush Co.
Livyjr
And who else in the world is "DISRESPECTING" George W. Bush today while the Lebanese people are also "DISRESPECTING" George W. Bush?

Besides about everyone, that is?

How about Iran?

World - Reuters

"U.S. 'Hallucinating' Over Nuclear Talks, Iran Says"

2 hours, 23 minutes ago

By Paul Hughes

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Washington is "hallucinating" if it thinks Iran will scrap its nuclear fuel production plans in return for economic incentives, a senior Iranian official was quoted as saying Sunday.

The United States offered the encouragements in support of the European Union which is negotiating with Tehran to try to persuade it to give up sensitive nuclear activities.

"U.S. officials are either unaware of the substance of the talks or (they are) hallucinating," Sirus Naseri, a senior member of Iran's nuclear negotiating team, told the official IRNA news agency.

Iran says it needs atomic technology to generate electricity and will never use it to make bombs, as the United States fears.

London's Sunday Times said Israel had drawn up plans for a combined air and ground attack on Iranian nuclear installations if diplomacy fails to halt Tehran's atomic program.

The newspaper said Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his inner cabinet had given "initial authorization" for a unilateral attack at a private meeting last month.

Israel, which bombed Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor in 1981, played down the report.

Iran has said it will respond vigorously to any attack on its nuclear plants.

Washington gave practical backing for the EU's diplomatic approach Friday, offering to allow Iran to begin talks on joining the World Trade Organization (WTO) and consider letting it buy civilian airline parts if it ceased all activities that could produce fuel for nuclear power plants or atomic weapons.

Washington and the EU have warned Iran it faces referral to the U.N. Security Council, which could impose economic sanctions, if it fails to allay fears it wants the bomb.

U.S. PROPOSAL "DISRESPECTFUL"

Iran dismissed the U.S. offer as insignificant.

Intelligence Minister Ali Yunesi told IRNA it was "funny and disrespectful."

"The U.S. should apologize to Iran for making this proposal," he said, going on to describe Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice as a "queen of war and violence."


Naseri said it was not clear if greater U.S. involvement in the negotiations was "helpful or an obstacle to progress."

He said the EU, which has persuaded Iran to suspend potentially weapons-related activities like uranium enrichment while the two sides try to reach a solution, was close to accepting that Iran would not give up enrichment.

Instead, Tehran has offered to give "objective guarantees" that it will not divert nuclear fuel to military uses.

"It seems the Europeans are ready to adopt a logical position," Naseri said.

Iran has refused to disclose its guarantees publicly but diplomats and analysts say it is offering to allow intrusive inspections that ensure it only enriches uranium to a low grade which would be unsuitable for weapons.

It may also be prepared to restrict its enrichment activities to a pilot project, too small to make weapons production practical, diplomats and analysts say.

Such a solution would allow Iran to save face while meeting most of the West's concerns.

So far EU officials have said the only acceptable guarantee would be for Iran to mothball its enrichment plans and rely on imported nuclear reactor fuel.

The two sides are due to hold a crucial meeting in Paris on March 23 to review their talks.

"If the policy of the United States and Europe is for Iran not to go after nuclear weapons, we are ready to negotiate and reach an agreement," Hossein Mousavian, another of Iran's nuclear negotiators, told IRNA.

"However, if they want to prevent Iran producing the fuel it needs for its nuclear power plants, Iran will not welcome negotiations or these incentives."

end quotes

This Bush Co. keeps it up, this boy is gonna have "ENEMIES" coming out every end all at once, and then, what is he going to do?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 08:43 AM)
CAN MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, who are "an entity of one or more persons engaged in political or governmental activity" be suspected of CORRUPTING OUR DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES?

OR ARE ALL REPUBLICANS ACTUALLY BEYOND THE REACH OF ANY AND ALL LAWS, SUCH AS ARTICLE 460 OF TITLE X OF THE NEW YORK STATE PENAL LAW BECAUSE THEY ALREADY ALLEGEDLY CONTROL THOSE SAME DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES, AND SO CAN "SAY" WHAT "CORRUPTION" REALLY MEANS, OR IS, ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN "DEFINITION" OF THE WORD, OR TERM?

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 05:19 PM)
"AP review: Gov't reducing access to info" 
 
By MARTHA MENDOZA, Associated Press
Last updated: 3:27 p.m., Sunday, March 13, 2005

Since 1998, many federal departments have been reducing the amount of information they release to the public -- even as the government fields and answers more requests for information than ever, an Associated Press review has found.

The locations of stores and restaurants that have received recalled meat, the names of detainees held by the U.S. overseas and details about Vice President Dick Cheney's 2001 energy policy task force are all among the records that the government isn't sharing with the public.

The tightening began even before the Sept. 11 attacks, and now government defenders say the nation needs protection from its enemies in the war on terror.

But open government advocates worry that U.S. citizens' freedom is eroding with every file they can't access.

"This is an immensely troubling clampdown," said Steve Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists' Secrecy Project.

"The law itself is unchanged, but it's being interpreted more broadly to withhold more information."

"The Bush administration's attitude is that public information is largely a dangerous thing in the wrong hands."

States all have their own public records laws, and have closely followed the federal government's lead.

A new state-by-state study of public records laws by the Better Government Association concluded that the array of legislation is so haphazard that it hampers "the citizenry's ability to examine even the most fundamental actions of government."

"Growing secrecy threatens public"

By ERIN DUGGAN, Capitol bureau, Albany, New York Times Union
First published: Sunday, March 13, 2005

ALBANY -- Every day, New Yorkers try to get public information -- tax records, minutes of government meetings, accident reports and any of thousands of other documents.

Mundane or not, vast numbers of those records are available to the public under the state's Freedom of Information Law.

But those seeking information complain government officials use FOIL to literally foil attempts to access it.

Reporters, government watchdog groups and even lawmakers say access to information has gotten worse under Gov. George Pataki and President Bush, and that government's frequent inclination toward secrecy was bolstered by the threat of terrorism.

Government, some worry, is using loopholes in its own law to stymie requests for information, discouraging those who don't have the time, money and enthusiasm to bring their case to court.


"I think people are beginning to realize the lack of government responsiveness and the denial of rightful information is becoming more of a daily occurrence," said state Sen. Carl Kruger, D-Brooklyn.

FOIL and the state's 1976 Open Meetings Law are considered "Sunshine Laws," designed to shed light on formerly secretive aspects of government to guarantee that democracy is conducted openly.

How well government is responding is being looked at across the country this week as news organizations and other groups mark Sunshine Week.

State agencies get tens of thousands of Freedom of Information Law requests each year, from regular citizens, lawyers, reporters, businesses and anyone else who needs documents held by the state.

Under the law, an agency or government body has five business days to respond to the request.

There's no penalty for failure to respond.

But the law says the response must either provide the information, deny the request or simply acknowledge the request and give an approximate date of when the request will be fulfilled or denied.

Too often, critics contend, officials use the last clause to indefinitely delay dealing with requests.

"If you don't get a denial, you can't go to court to request that the documents are turned over," said Diane Kennedy, president of the New York Newspaper Publisher's Association.

Kennedy and her colleagues were in the Capitol last week lobbying lawmakers to amend the law's timetable for responses.

They found majority-party lawmakers in both houses -- Oneida Assemblywoman RoAnn Destito and Yonkers Sen. Nick Spano -- to take up their cause.

The New York Public Interest Research Group concluded late last year that many state agencies were not complying with the law.

Of 142 agencies that the group sent requests for information, about 20 percent failed to respond in a timely manner.

A recent national study by the University of Florida ranked New York as average for its response time.

Blair Horner, NYPIRG's legislative director, said Albany is getting more secretive.

"I think the Pataki administration has been most notable for its efforts to operate in secret, and I think that's reflected in how they disclose information either under the Freedom of Information Law, or just generally speaking," Horner said.

"I think the trend in Albany, which has always been too secretive, has become more secretive."

Pataki spokesman Kevin Quinn said the state is doing a good job.


"We take our Freedom of Information responsibilities very seriously," Quinn said.

"We're proud of our efforts to ensure state agencies promote an open and responsive government."

"Not only do agencies process thousands of FOIL requests each year, they also now offer a tremendous amount of information on their Web sites."

"Today, there is no question that we provide New Yorkers with more access to state government than ever before."

The public can take agencies to court for information, and many people have prevailed in their quest for documents.

But victory isn't cheap -- few people get their legal expenses paid for even if they win, because judges must find that the plaintiff strongly prevails, the information wrongly withheld is of significant public interest and the agency had no cause to withhold the information.

Kruger and Assemblyman Alexander Grannis, D-Manhattan, want to make it easier for victorious plaintiffs to recover their legal fees.

The two sponsored a bill now pending in each house.

The idea is supported by the state's Committee on Open Government, part of the state Department of State.

Robert Freeman, the committee's executive director and the state's leading expert on freedom of information laws, said security concerns that followed the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks created a lot of rash decisions on public information.

In 2002, for example, the state Senate passed a series of anti-terrorism bills that limited access to information.

Opponents argued the law already protected sensitive security material.

For example, Freeman said, a bill was proposed that would have allowed government to withhold anything related to terrorism or investigations of terrorism.

"That was much too broad," said Freeman, who said he recommends a harm test -- where withholding information would require an explanation of why the release of the information would be harmful.

"In some instances, the instant reaction is to say no," Freeman said.

"From my perspective, there are unique circumstances where some records or portions of records can be withheld, and there are other times when a knee-jerk reaction is short-sighted and wrong."

One person frequently ringing Freeman for an opinion is William Van Allen, a Hurley, Ulster County, resident who estimates he has filed more than 500 information requests and has gone to court over many of them.

Van Allen has asked for such things as minutes of meetings from the state Board of Elections, records from local library and school board votes, and voter petitions from local county boards of elections.

His latest case is over lists of poll inspectors.

"Going to court is expensive and it takes forever," said Van Allen, a retiree who represents himself.

"And you have to go through two or three levels of jerks to get there."

Before pushing a FOIL request in court, Van Allen said, he calls Freeman for an opinion.

"Without him there, it would be hopeless," Van Allen said.

State Sen. Liz Krueger, D-Manhattan, said sunshine laws aren't limited to documents and open meetings.

Making the legislative process more transparent through reforms would bring the state more in line with the spirit of sunshine legislation.

"There are a lot of sunshine questions that aren't just how you run the Legislature," Krueger said.

For example, she said, public authorities control hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money but operate less openly than other government agencies.

Citizens also are largely in the dark when it comes to understanding the state budget and other issues that affect them, like eminent domain proceedings.

"It's the people's business," she said.


The Legislature operates under different rules than the rest of the state: Instead of all documents being presumed public unless there is a valid reason to withhold them, only certain categories of legislative records must be released.

The list is expansive -- bills, laws, resolutions, messages from the governor, audits, transcripts and almost any other documents that would normally be covered under FOIL, Freeman said.

But one area not covered by FOIL or the Open Meetings Law is party caucuses -- where ruling majorities essentially decide the fate of legislation.

Even lawmakers say they find roadblocks.

Krueger said she has had to file many FOIL requests to get information that agencies are required by law to provide the Legislature.

"How ridiculous is that?" she asked.

"Didn't we get elected to oversee this?"


Freeman's office produces an annual report to the governor and Legislature, detailing progress in Freedom of Information that it would like to see.

One of the sharpest criticisms in the latest report is that "state and federal court decisions glaringly indicate that government agencies may not be forthcoming when responding to requests, that the law has no teeth and that failures to comply carry no penalty of substance."

To give the state more incentive to comply with requests, the committee offered a series of legislative recommendations, many of which have been introduced by members.

Assemblywoman Susan John, D-Rochester, is sponsoring a bill supported by the committee to invalidate actions taken at meetings that violate the Open Meetings Law and impose a $500 fine on the governing body.

John said Open Meeting Law violations are a problem in some smaller municipalities she represents.

"I think that enforcement has been a serious reason why some of the municipalities may feel that they don't have to pay attention to it," she said.

"There are some communities that try to hold important meetings in a phone booth."

"Or try to hold open meetings without interpreters for the hearing impaired or that are not accessible for the disabled."


The Committee on Open Government also is pushing for a three-strikes rule against members of a public body that habitually violates the Open Meetings Law.

Members with three strikes would be removed from office.

State lawmakers, especially those who themselves have been foiled when trying to access state information, said it's time to give the 30-year-old law more heft, especially in a year in which the Assembly and Senate are fighting to out-reform each other.

"If we're half of what we claim to be," said Kruger, "then we should pull open the curtains, raise the Venetians and let as much light onto the process as possible."

Dozens of bills dealing with public information and open meetings are pending in the state Legislature.

Here is a sample. (Letters preceding bills indicate Senate or Assembly.):

A1675/S2641: Would make it easier for people to win back legal fees from wrongful denials of access to records under Freedom of Information Law.

A5625: Strengthens the timeline by which requests for a record under FOIL is granted or denied.

A3468: Creates a penalty for up to $1,000 for willful failure to make timely disclosure of public records.

A4402/S0496: Would expand the amount of information available to the public, via the Internet, about registered sex offenders.

On the Web: To read these bills or search for more, check out http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/ or http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menuf.cgi
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 03:48 PM)
Jungian synchronicity, jeffmoskin?

U.S. National - AP
 
"Wisc. Sect Focused on 'End Time' Prophecy"

By The Associated Press

Terry Ratzmann, the man who police say killed seven people and then himself during a church service, was a member of the Living Church of God, a denomination that focuses on "end-time" prophecies.

The church's estimated 6,300 members in 40 countries place a strong emphasis on using world news to "prove" that these are end times, to be followed by Christ's second coming.


This year, the group's leader, Dr. Roderick C. Meredith, wrote that events prophesied in the Bible are "beginning to occur with increasing frequency."

"We are not talking about decades in the future."

"We are talking about Bible prophesies that will intensify within the next five to 15 years of your life," he wrote in the church's magazine, Tomorrow's World.

He advised members to gather emergency food supplies and follow government instructions on how to prepare for an emergency.

end quotes

Follow government instructions on how to prepare for an emergency?

HHHHHhhhhmmmmm.

YES!

Does anyone smell the "smell" of Karl Rove in here?

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 05:19 PM)
Or in here, for that matter?

The coming of CORPORATIA is upon us!

And George W. Bush is alleged to be the "SECOND COMING OF CHRIST" predicted by these "END OF TIME" people in that LIVING CHURCH OF GOD, above, which prophecy may have triggered this man to kill all those other people, and himself!

Positively uncanny stuff going on here, is what I think!

"AP review: Gov't reducing access to info" 
 
By MARTHA MENDOZA, Associated Press
Last updated: 3:27 p.m., Sunday, March 13, 2005

Since 1998, many federal departments have been reducing the amount of information they release to the public -- even as the government fields and answers more requests for information than ever, an Associated Press review has found.

The locations of stores and restaurants that have received recalled meat, the names of detainees held by the U.S. overseas and details about Vice President Dick Cheney's 2001 energy policy task force are all among the records that the government isn't sharing with the public.

The tightening began even before the Sept. 11 attacks, and now government defenders say the nation needs protection from its enemies in the war on terror.

But open government advocates worry that U.S. citizens' freedom is eroding with every file they can't access.

"The Bush administration's attitude is that public information is largely a dangerous thing in the wrong hands."

And isn't this an interesting juxtaposition, above here?

At the very same time that this LEADER of this Living Church of God, a denomination that focuses on "end-time" prophecies, Dr. Roderick C. Meredith, is writing that events prophesied in the Bible are beginning to occur with increasing frequency: "We are not talking about decades in the future; We are talking about Bible prophesies that will intensify within the next five to 15 years of your life," and at the same time that he is advising members to gather emergency food supplies and follow government instructions on how to prepare for an emergency, the Bush Co. is literally assuring that the FLOCKS will have no INDEPENDENT MEANS of verifying what they are being told, EITHER BY THE CHURCH, OR BUSH CO.!

"PUT YOUR TRUST IN GEORGE W. BUSH, DO NOT QUESTION GEORGE W. BUSH; JUST TRUST GEORGE W. BUSH, AND YOU WILL MAKE IT THROUGH THE END TIMES OKAY, AND YOU WILL BE THERE TO SEE THE GLORY OF GEORGE W. BUSH AS THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST!"

Interesting!

And very powerful to boot!

Mind control!

In spades!

Who has the KOOL-AID?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 06:37 PM)
And isn't this an interesting juxtaposition, above here?

At the very same time that this LEADER of this Living Church of God, a denomination that focuses on "end-time" prophecies, Dr. Roderick C. Meredith, is writing that events prophesied in the Bible are beginning to occur with increasing frequency: "We are not talking about decades in the future; We are talking about Bible prophesies that will intensify within the next five to 15 years of your life," and at the same time that he is advising members to gather emergency food supplies and follow government instructions on how to prepare for an emergency, the Bush Co. is literally assuring that the FLOCKS will have no INDEPENDENT MEANS of verifying what they are being told, EITHER BY THE CHURCH, OR BUSH CO.!

"PUT YOUR TRUST IN GEORGE W. BUSH, DO NOT QUESTION GEORGE W. BUSH; JUST TRUST GEORGE W. BUSH, AND YOU WILL MAKE IT THROUGH THE END TIMES OKAY, AND YOU WILL BE THERE TO SEE THE GLORY OF GEORGE W. BUSH AS THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST!"

Interesting!

And very powerful to boot!

Mind control!

In spades!

Who has the KOOL-AID?

"Church gunman said upset over sermon"

By JULIET WILLIAMS and RYAN NAKASHIMA, Associated Press
Last updated: 7:27 p.m., Sunday, March 13, 2005

BROOKFIELD, Wis. -- The man who fatally shot seven people during a quiet church service before turning the gun on himself was on the verge of losing his job and upset over a sermon he heard two weeks ago, investigators said Sunday.

Terry Ratzmann, 44, left no suicide note and gave no explanation for the killings during Saturday's weekly meeting at a suburban Milwaukee hotel.

It was unclear what specifically upset him, but Ratzmann was a member of the Living Church of God, a denomination whose leader recently prophesied that end times are near.

Fifty to 60 people were at the service when it turned into a bloodbath.

Ratzmann, a buttoned-down churchgoer known for sharing his homegrown vegetables with his neighbors, walked into the room and fired 22 rounds from a 9mm handgun.

He even dropped a magazine and reloaded another.

One of Ratzmann's friends begged him to stop, calling him by name and saying, "Stop, stop, why?" police Capt. Phil Horter said.

Chandra Frazier dove under a chair.

The man sitting in it died.

"I just remember crawling on the carpet and just praying, screaming out and praying," Frazier told "Good Morning America" on Sunday.

After killing seven people and wounding four others, Ratzmann took his own life, leaving four rounds in his gun, police said.

The church's minister, Randy L. Gregory, 51, and his son, James Gregory, 16, of Gurnee, Ill., died, along with Harold Diekmeier, 74, of Delafield; Richard Reeves, 58, of Cudahy; Bart Oliver, 15, of Waukesha; Gloria Critari, 55, of Cudahy; and Gerald A. Miller, 44, of Erin, according to police and published reports.

Marjean Gregory, 52, of Gurnee, was hospitalized in critical condition.

Matthew P. Kaulbach, 21, of Pewaukee and Angel M. Varichak, 19, of Helenville were hospitalized in satisfactory condition Sunday, a hospital spokeswoman said.

A 10-year-old girl police identified as Lindsay also remained hospitalized.

The church group was 20 or 30 minutes into Saturday's service when the shots rang out.

Ratzmann regularly attended the gatherings at the Sheraton each Saturday -- the church group did not have a building of its own.

But Frazier said Ratzmann walked out of a recent sermon "sort of in a huff."

"Something that the minister said he was upset about."

"I'm not quite sure what exactly," she said.


During the shooting rampage, Ratzmann told the friend who approached him that he was upset, said Waukesha County District Attorney Paul Bucher, although he was unsure over what.

He was not known to have threatened anyone and had no criminal record, police said.

They seized three computers, a .22-caliber rifle and a box of bullets from the modest two-story home Ratzmann shared with his mother and adult sister.

Neighbors said Ratzmann built his own greenhouse, kept a well-tended garden and even used humane traps to free squirrels that got in the yard.

"He wasn't a dark guy."

"He was average Joe," said Shane Colwell, a neighbor who knew Ratzmann for about a decade.

"It's not like he ever pushed his beliefs on anyone else."

But another neighbor called Ratzmann a drinker, and church members said he struggled with depression for years.

"Terry suffered from depression, on and off."

"When he was really depressed he didn't talk to people."

"Sometimes it was worse than others," said Kathleen Wollin, 66, who was sitting at the front of the room during Saturday's service.

The district attorney said Ratzmann was on the verge of losing his job as a computer technician.

Ratzmann had been working for an employment agency, assigned to a health care company.


Colwell said Ratzmann was so devout about attending church that he skipped Colwell's wedding because it was on a Saturday.

The Living Church of God, based in Charlotte, N.C., places a strong emphasis on using world events to prove the end of the world is near.

Earlier this year, the group's leader, Dr. Roderick C. Meredith, wrote that events prophesied in the Bible are "beginning to occur with increasing frequency."

"We are not talking about decades in the future."

"We are talking about Bible prophesies that will intensify within the next five to 15 years of your life," he wrote in the church's magazine, Tomorrow's World.

The church branch that met in Brookfield was started by Randy Gregory, who moved his family from Texas to Gurnee, Ill., five years ago, said next-door neighbor Toni D'Amore, 47.

Gregory and his 16-year-old son, James, were among the victims.

"Their children were probably, I'd have to say, were probably some of the nicest and most respectable young men I've ever met," she said.

She said James excelled in school.

"He just had potential coming out of every pore of his body."

"You know, the world's lost something there."

Don Free's niece, Angel Varichak, was one of the wounded.

Free said she was expected to survive.

"I wanted to know where God was when this happened," Free told the Chicago Sun-Times.

"He was supposed to be everywhere."

"He could have at least been there."


end quotes

"I wanted to know where God was when this happened?"

Well, let's ask Scottie "BOY" McClellan, the SPOKESCREENPERSON: WAS HE IN WASHINGTON THAT DAY, OR DOWN AT THE RANCH IN TEXAS?
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 05:55 PM)
Ratzmann, a buttoned-down churchgoer known for sharing his homegrown vegetables with his neighbors, walked into the room and fired 22 rounds from a 9mm handgun.

He even dropped a magazine and reloaded another.

*

I'm wearing my tar and feather repellant, so I will say that articles like these make me wish that the ownership of guns was limited to flint-lock, black powder types. The idea of one man being capable of so much firepower is disturbing.

Chris Rock did a comedy piece where he suggested that bullets cost $5.00 each, the idea being that drug lords would have to do a "mental profit and loss sheet" before riddling the 'hood with 9mm rounds.

With a popluation of nearly 300 million people, the number of loony tunes out there is fairly high. And ANYBODY can get hold of a gun, no matter what kind of "background checks" are done. You could probably just buy one on the street.

It's such a tragedy when one person can wreak so much havoc.

In Church, no less.
Livyjr
Good morning, America!

Another day up here in the GREAT NORTH-EAST, as the wags and pundits call it, and the sun is shining, and so ....

Life is good!

If the sun wasn't shining, well, life would still be good, but on a sunny day, well, maybe it is just a touch better, and so ....

As always, when I come in here, it is a totally random thing, as I am not in the pay or employ of anyone, and I am not pushing an "agenda" on behalf of any special interests groups and being not in control of much in this world other than where I set my feet, and the extent to which I extend my arms at any given time, so as to not try and occupy the space already occupied by someone else's head, I never know what I am going to encounter on my way in here, and so, until I am actually here, which I am right now, I never really know what will be said next in here until it is said.

Which right now is all of this above!

My "INTENT" this morning was and is to get back to this thing called "LIBERTY", but that is indeed a circuitous route, it seems, to get back to there, since so much is going on in the meantime that precludes us from having the "LIBERTY" that I want to talk about!

And so, I talk about those other things instead, as they are, to me, impediments to "LIBERTY", and to understand the one, it seems you have to really discuss the others, and then make an attempt to tie it all together to make a comprehensive whole out of it, WHICH IS NOT EASY TO DO!

And admittedly so, because there is just so much to be assimilated, that it simply overwhelms people, and so, the conversation is just never had.

And now, perhaps we are facing a mountain where once a molehill stood.

Things tackled when small are easier to deal with than when procrastination allows them to become very big!

A fire in a frying pan, for example, is much easier to deal with in relative terms than a fire consuming your whole house, because you were too busy talking on the phone to take a moment to remove the heat from the frying pan, so as to not set it on fire in the first place!

A matter of priorities, I think it used to be called, when I was young, in the country!

DON'T PLOW THE FIELD AFTER YOU HAVE PLANTED THE CORN!

Things like that!

Simple things like that, actually, and we don't seem to "SEE" things like that in simple terms no more, and so, maybe now things are not so simple anymore, AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS?

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU PLOW THE FIELD AFTER YOU HAVE PLANTED THE CORN, FOR EXAMPLE?

Or is that really too hard a question?

How about this one, then?

WHAT HAPPENS TO "OUR" NATIONAL ECONOMY AFTER DICK CHENEY AND HIS CROWD OF "NEVER WILL HAVE ENOUGHS" HAVE SUCCEEDED, WITH CONTINUED "FEARS OF TAY-RAH", IN DRIVING UP THE COST OF A BARREL OF OIL RIGHT ON OUT OF SIGHT, SO THAT THEY CAN THEN GOUGE US WHEN WE HAVE TO BUY HEATING OIL AND GASOLINE FROM THEM?

Business - AP

"Concern Over Inflation Could Intensify"

Sun Mar 13, 2:43 PM ET

By MICHAEL J. MARTINEZ, AP Business Writer

NEW YORK - The stock market's obsession with inflation could intensify in the week ahead as Wall Street's major brokerage houses start reporting their first-quarter earnings.

Earnings in the financial sector typically come under pressure in a rising interest rate environment.

When inflation is a concern, the Federal Reserve is particularly aggressive in raising rates to combat rising prices.

The Fed has raised the short-term benchmark rate from 1 percent to 2.5 percent since last summer.

That tightens the availability of capital, making it more expensive, and that hurts brokerages' bottom lines as the margins on their own borrowing shrink and the value of their rate-sensitive holdings, like bonds, decreases.

Investors will look to earnings from the Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Morgan Stanley and the Bear Stearns Cos. Inc. this week for signs that the Fed's rate hikes are working, and also that the brokerages are adjusting their business plans to make up for the shortfalls.

Last week, a sharp climb in oil prices and a weaker dollar raised fears of inflation once again, sending the markets sharply off the 3 1/2-year highs reached the previous week.

The Dow Jones industrial average lost 1.52 percent for the week, while the Standard & Poor's 500 index fell 1.4 percent and the Nasdaq composite index dropped 1.8 percent.

ECONOMIC DATA

The upcoming batch of economic data this week won't do much to assuage inflation fears, but should give a clearer picture of the health of the economy.

On Tuesday, the Commerce Department will release its retail sales report for February.

Economists expect sales to improve by 0.6 percent for the month after a 0.3 percent drop in January.

With sluggish auto sales removed, retail sales are expected to climb 0.8 percent, versus a 0.6 percent rise in January.

The Federal Reserve will release its industrial production figures Wednesday.

The output of the nation's factories is expected to rise 0.5 percent in February after a flat January.

Also Wednesday, the Commerce Department will report on housing starts and building permits for February.

Both are expected to decline slightly from January due to seasonally poor weather conditions.

EARNINGS

Bear Stearns will start the brokerage earnings reports before Wednesday's trading session.

The company is expected to earn $2.34 per share, compared with $2.37 a share a year ago.

Bear Stearns' stock has been a steady performer, rising 34.9 percent since closing at a 2004 low of $76.62 on May 10.

It closed Friday at $103.33.

Morgan Stanley, which announces earnings Thursday morning, has climbed 25 percent from its low close of $46.80 on Aug. 6, ending Friday at $58.49.

The brokerage is expected to earn $1.14 per share, up from last year's $1.11 per share.

Also Thursday, Goldman Sachs will report its earnings and is expected to post a profit of $2.21 per share, down from the $2.50 per share a year ago.

Like rival Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs has risen substantially since its August lows, climbing 30.9 percent from its close of $83.86 on Aug. 12 to close Friday at $109.55.

Among the other companies reporting this week is FedEx Corp., due out Thursday morning.

The shipping company is expected to earn 98 cents per share for the quarter, up substantially from 71 cents a year ago.

FedEx has been one of the market's most solid performers the past two years, rising steadily from a close of $49.80 on March 14, 2003, to end Friday at $99.73, a two-year gain of 100.3 percent.
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 14 2005, 08:04 AM)
I'm wearing my tar and feather repellant, so I will say that articles like these make me wish that the ownership of guns was limited to flint-lock, black powder types.

The idea of one man being capable of so much firepower is disturbing.

Chris Rock did a comedy piece where he suggested that bullets cost $5.00 each, the idea being that drug lords would have to do a "mental profit and loss sheet" before riddling the 'hood with 9mm rounds.

With a popluation of nearly 300 million people, the number of loony tunes out there is fairly high.

And ANYBODY can get hold of a gun, no matter what kind of "background checks" are done.

You could probably just buy one on the street.

It's such a tragedy when one person can wreak so much havoc.

In Church, no less.

Tar and feather repellent, indeed, jeffmoskin!

I'm personally surprised that in situations like this, especially where the guy had to actually reload, that everybody actually stood around, EN TABLEAU, while he did so!

"ALL RIGHT FOLKS, EVERYBODY JUST HOLD YOUR POSITIONS HERE FOR A MOMENT, HE HAS TO RELOAD!"

When he ran out of bullets the first time, the "slide" would have had to have been worked after he put the second magazine in, so as to get another round back into the chamber, and what was everybody doing in that period of time?

And according to the article, one guy was actually talking to him while he was blazing away!

SO!

What's with that?

And bullets for some guns are about $4 apiece, and that does not seem to stop anybody from shooting up the "hood", or the local church, or courtroom or whatever, just as the cost of a pack of cigarettes does not seem to stop anyone from smoking those things.

In this story which follows, the Police Lieutenant being honored WAS KILLED by a FEDERAL PAROLEE, one of those that George W. Bush has direct responsibility for as CHIEF EXECUTIVE of the United States FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND THE FEDERAL PAROLEE WAS ARMED WITH A MAC-10 "KNOCK-OFF", WHICH WOULD BE A RAPID-FIRE WEAPON AKIN TO AN UZI!

SO?

How and where did a FEDERAL PAROLEE get this MAC-10?

AND THE BULLETS?

AND GEORGE W. BUSH WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE WE ARE "SAFE" HERE IN THIS BOTCH-JOB "AMURKA" THAT HE AND HIS CROWD OF INEPT INCOMPETENTS ARE CREATING IN THE EXACT IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF THEIR "MASTER", GEORGE W. BUSH?

"FBI honors fallen Albany police officer - Lt. John Finn recognized for volunteer work in the community he served"

By CAROL DeMARE, Staff writer, Albany, New York Times Union
First published: Tuesday, March 8, 2005

ALBANY -- The FBI posthumously honored Lt. John F. Finn Monday, recognizing the officer for his work in the community.

William D. Chase, special agent in charge of the Albany office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, presented the award to Finn's widow, Maura McNulty-Finn, as fellow officers looked on.

"We all know the heroic way John Finn gave his life to this community," Chase said.

"This award is to honor the heroic and caring way in which he lived his life."

The ceremony was held at the Albany Citizens Council on Alcoholism office where Finn volunteered.

Finn, a popular patrol supervisor and former detective who worked in the Juvenile Unit, died Feb. 12, 2004.

He had been shot three times on Dec. 23, 2003, while responding to a store robbery in the South End.

The 12-year veteran underwent multiple surgeries before dying at Albany Medical Center Hospital.

He was 37.


Keshon Everett, 27, of Albany, pleaded guilty to first-degree murder and is serving life in prison without the possibility of parole.

McNulty-Finn held the couple's toddler daughter, Molly, as she accepted the award that recognized, in part, Finn's "unselfish dedication and leadership."

There is an older Finn daughter, Clara.

McNulty-Finn thanked the FBI and her husband's colleagues, saying they "have made it possible for us to keep going."

The police force's newest K-9, an 18-month-old German shepherd named Finn in honor of the fallen officer, was on hand, along with his handler, Officer Kyle McGraith.

The council's office on McCarty Avenue is near FBI headquarters.

When Chase was assigned to Albany last summer, Catherine Doherty, the council's executive director, invited him over.

It was during that visit, he said, that he learned that Finn volunteered at the center and "reached out to youth (to) mentor them before they got into trouble," Chase said.

"Our hope is that John's life will inspire others to volunteer."

Albany Police Chief James Turley called the FBI award "a national recognition for John (and) his leadership abilities."

He talked about Finn's attributes, saying, "Everybody who worked with John were followers, even me."

County Executive Michael Breslin and Mayor Jerry Jennings spoke of Finn's devotion to children.

Jennings said that when he was vice principal at Albany High School, he met Finn, watched how he related to children and thought, "this guy gets it."
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 14 2005, 07:08 AM)
Last week, a sharp climb in oil prices and a weaker dollar raised fears of inflation once again, sending the markets sharply off the 3 1/2-year highs reached the previous week.
*

And good morning to you, Livyjr. And to all of the people reading this thread.

Sadly, and there are many books on the subject, we are in an era of "Peak Oil" which means that while the slimy stuff will be with us for most of the new century, diminishing return have or are about to set in, meaning that less and less will be available to a world (now with 1.3 Billion Chinese included) that demands more and more.

Yes, I know that Money has become a narcotic to BushCorp, Halliburton, Carlyle Group. Even to my favorite mousketeer: Mikey Eisner, whose $600 million salary strikes me as "excessive," but hey what do I know.

The salient issue here, IMHO, is that we have KNOWN this was coming.

Since 1956.

And other than a small adjustment in the 70's to smaller cars, more efficient refrigerators, better house insulation, since the 80s we have been BACKSLIDING as though there was no tomorrow.

This is tomorrow, and we have been plowing up the seed corn.

And you can bet your bottom dollar that before long oil will cost many times what does today, and that our life style will suffer for it because we have not been paying attention.

And while I can rant all I want at BushCorp on this forum, SUV FEVER is really a Clinton era phenomenon. He just looked the other way.

Other than Jimmy Carter, for whom I have always had the highest regard as a human being but not as a president (and I am gradually seeing his presidency in a better light) American Leadership has been totally wanton when it comes to long range strategic planning about energy.

And now the clock is striking midnight.

And I hate the cold and the dark.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 14 2005, 08:29 AM)
Tar and feather repellent, indeed, jeffmoskin!

In this story which follows, the Police Lieutenant being honored WAS KILLED by a FEDERAL PAROLEE, one of those that George W. Bush has direct responsibility for as CHIEF EXECUTIVE of the United States FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND THE FEDERAL PAROLEE WAS ARMED WITH A MAC-10 "KNOCK-OFF", WHICH WOULD BE A RAPID-FIRE WEAPON AKIN TO AN UZI!

SO?

How and where did a FEDERAL PAROLEE get this MAC-10?

AND THE BULLETS?

AND GEORGE W. BUSH WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE WE ARE "SAFE" HERE IN THIS BOTCH-JOB "AMURKA" THAT HE AND HIS CROWD OF INEPT INCOMPETENTS ARE CREATING IN THE EXACT IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF THEIR "MASTER", GEORGE W. BUSH?

"FBI honors fallen Albany police officer - Lt. John Finn recognized for volunteer work in the community he served" 
 
By CAROL DeMARE, Staff writer, Albany, New York Times Union
First published: Tuesday, March 8, 2005

ALBANY -- The FBI posthumously honored Lt. John F. Finn Monday, recognizing the officer for his work in the community.

William D. Chase, special agent in charge of the Albany office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, presented the award to Finn's widow, Maura McNulty-Finn, as fellow officers looked on.

"We all know the heroic way John Finn gave his life to this community," Chase said.

"This award is to honor the heroic and caring way in which he lived his life."

The ceremony was held at the Albany Citizens Council on Alcoholism office where Finn volunteered.

Finn, a popular patrol supervisor and former detective who worked in the Juvenile Unit, died Feb. 12, 2004.

He had been shot three times on Dec. 23, 2003, while responding to a store robbery in the South End.

The 12-year veteran underwent multiple surgeries before dying at Albany Medical Center Hospital.

He was 37.

And here, I am always interested IN WHAT WE NEVER SEEM TO HEAR, which is WHERE DID THIS FEDERAL PAROLEE GET A MAC-10?

Why does that part of the story never seem to get told?

This particular shooting actually took place within blocks of the main Police Station in George Pataki's "CAPITAL CITY" of Albany, New York, and it was just down the hill from George Pataki's GOVERNOR'S MANSION, to boot.

And if I were to put in here ALL the stories of the daily SHOOTINGS right here in George Pataki's CAPITAL CITY of Albany, New York, I'd never have room or time for anything else!

QUESTION: WHO IS NOT ARMED AND DANGEROUS UP HERE?

ANSWER: THE HONEST FOLKS!

In the meantime, of course, George W. Bush and George Pataki are shutting off OUR access to OUR government so as to be able to "PER-TECT" us from these so-called and alleged "TAY-RISTS" in the mountain fastnesses TEN THOUSAND MILES AWAY in Afghanistan!

What absolute B*** S*** is that?

The other day, the local radio news carried a story that in GEORGE PATAKI'S CAPITAL CITY of Albany, New York, Chinese take-aways will no longer deliver to certain areas of GEORGE PATAKI'S CAPITAL CITY because it is just too dangerous, as it is for pizza delivery men as well.

BUT ...

AT LEAST THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING BLOWN UP BY A "DURTIE NU-CLAR DEEVICE" HIDDEN IN A SAMSONITE OVERNIGHT BAG, as if that is some kind of consolation, here!

Over on Mr. A.B.'s "Religion and Politics" thread, he asks what may or may not be a rhetorical question: "HOW STUPID DOES GEORGE W. BUSH REALLY THINK WE ARE", and the answer is VERY!

BECAUSE WE ARE!
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 14 2005, 08:36 AM)
And good morning to you, Livyjr.

And to all of the people reading this thread.

The salient issue here, IMHO, is that we have KNOWN this was coming.

Since 1956.

And other than a small adjustment in the 70's to smaller cars, more efficient refrigerators, better house insulation, since the 80s we have  been BACKSLIDING as though there was no tomorrow.

This is tomorrow, and we have been plowing up the seed corn.

And you can bet your bottom dollar that before long oil will cost many times what  does today, and that our life style will suffer for it because we have not been paying attention.

And while I can rant all I want at BushCorp on this forum, SUV FEVER is really a Clinton era phenomenon.

He just looked the other way.

And now the clock is striking midnight.

And I hate the cold and the dark.

AND YOU LIVE IN A COMPARATIVELY BRIGHT AND WARM PLACE, jeffmoskin!

AND, SUV fever belongs to the people of MURKA who drive SUV's.

In that regard, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton are just happenstance.

STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES!

People who drive SUV's are like people who swim laden with boat anchors around their necks, so as to keep them from floating too freely on the surface, where they are likely to catch cancer from too much sun!

A question that arises here is: WHO OWES A DUTY TO A GLUTTONOUS, ARROGANT FOOL WHO IS OVER THE AGE OF EIGHTEEN?

"The one who dies with the most toys, WINS!"

That is a bumper sticker, or rear window decal that I see quite a bit up here, usually on the same vehicles carrying the WARNING "FEAR THIS", and I always wonder FIRST at what kind of mentality produces these "DECALS", or "SIGNS", and then WHAT KIND OF MENTALITY actually puts them on their vehicles for other people to see!

Somebody dead with a lot of toys is dead!

What exactly did they win?

I've just never been able to "puzzle" that out, myself!

We have up here what I call the "ROAD TO STUPID-VILLE", which is I-90 leading into George Pataki's CAPITAL CITY of Albany, New York.

Somebody up here, or a lot of somebody's actually, ARE COMPLETELY BEREFT OF THE BRAINS GOD GAVE A GOOSE, and so, they are completely unable to FATHOM out that if you take a radius, any radius, connecting a circumference to a point in the center, which is George Pataki's CAPITAL CITY of Albany, New York, and then you try and "DRAIN" all of what the circumference can contain INTO the center, THAT WHAT CAN BE CONTAINED ON THE CIRCUMFERENCE, IF "NON-COMPRESSIBLE", LIKE A WHOLE LOT OF "QUEEN MARY" SIZED SUV's, WILL MAKE QUITE A TALL PILE WHEN CONCENTRATED AT THE CENTER!

WE HAVE WHAT HAVE TO BE THE "ABSOLUTE" CLASS OF MORONS up here, thanks to graft and corruption in the "HIRING PROCESSES" of GUMMINT up here, in charge of what is called "planning" up here, WHICH IS ACTUALLY TURNING YOUR BLIND EYE TO WHAT THE POLITICALLY-CONNECTED "DEVELOPERS" WANT, AND CREATING A HOST OF LIES AND OTHER "SMOKE-SCREENS" AS TO WHY "WE" JUST GOT TO "HAVE IT UP HERE", like "THEY DO IN AUSTIN, TEXAS", who have not quite got it figured out yet that it snows up here, UNLIKE AUSTIN, AND LOS ANGELES, AND POMONA, AND PALM SPRINGS, or PALM DESERT, and that it gets quite cold up here, UNLIKE TAMPA, which then produces "BLACK ICE" on the road surfaces, ESPECIALLY ALL THE BRIDGES ONE MUST CROSS TO GET TO Albany, so that a HIGHWAY which cannot even accomodate warm weather traffic WILL BE A DISASTER WHEN A HALF-INCH of snow falls!

Especially when you keep putting HUGER and HUGER vehicles on the same limited road space!

MORONS!

BUT POLITICALLY CONNECTED, which is what counts, after all!

SO!

We have RICH FOLKS coming into here from God only knows where, trying to drive ever bigger and bigger vehicles from an ever-expanding circumference into the point at the center, and GUESS WHAT?

And we now have HUGE MANSIONS being built up here, IN THE MEDITERANEAN SYTLE of southern California, EXCEPT .....

Even this morning, IT WAS TEN DEGREES ABOVE ZERO up here, and when you have a HUGE house with a flat roof up here, the surface area is quite large, and so must be the heat loss, to the point that there is now a ten or fifteen degree temperature difference between where I am, in the "country" outside of Albany, New York, and Albany, itself, or the airport, actually, which is outside of Albany, and maybe fifteen miles from where I am.

In the last couple of weeks alone, it has been about four above zero where I am, in the morning, and the reported temperature on the radio from the airport will be fifteen or twenty degrees above zero.

FOR THERE TO BE A "TEMPERATURE", WHAT MUST BE PRESENT TO CAUSE A "TEMPERATURE" TO EXIST?

"Energy", perhaps?

Or is that a "stupid" thought on my part, SINCE I LIVE SO CLOSE TO WHAT HAS TO BE ONE OF THE GREATEST COLLECTIONS OF IT ANYWHERE ON THE FACE OF GOD'S GREEN EARTH, and so must have caught a great dose of it myself for remaining here in the first place?
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 14 2005, 07:46 AM)
And here, I am always interested IN WHAT WE NEVER SEEM TO HEAR, which is WHERE DID THIS FEDERAL PAROLEE GET A MAC-10?

Why does that part of the story never seem to get told?

*

I can answer that.

Easy question.

From a dealer in some city who opened the trunk of his 1973 cadillac (biggest trunk ever made) and said, "which model(s) do you want?"

That dealer had, earlier in the week, driven from (say) Albany down to the wonderful, freedom loving state of Virginia, and purchased 50 or 100 guns for cash from one or more gun dealers. No law says you can't (but there should be).

Like I said. Easy question.
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 14 2005, 08:35 AM)
AND YOU LIVE IN A COMPARATIVELY BRIGHT AND WARM PLACE, jeffmoskin!

*


Yeah, but I've turned into a wimp.

Back in the 60s when I lived in what was then Nelson Rockefeller's corrupt state of New York, I remember one fine January day when the temperature hit 57.

Unbelievable!

Everybody was outside doing something.

Fixing the roof.

Fixing the car.

Fixing that leaky pipe under the house.

And wearing a tee shirt.

Now, when the temperature FALLS to 55 out here, I'm all bundled up.

Last winter, my wife and I went to a party in NYC thrown by life-long friends of mine (I've know her since Stalin was in power). Third week in January. No thaw. It was 6 above zero. Brrrrr.

Now, I used to be able to take that in stride. No more. I used to be able to stand in the sun to warm myself up. No more. And I used to kinda like going back to NYC in the winter.

NO MORE.
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 14 2005, 10:11 AM)
Yeah, but I've turned into a wimp.

Back in the 60s when I lived in what was then Nelson Rockefeller's corrupt state of New York, I remember one fine January day when the temperature hit 57.

Unbelievable!

Last winter, my wife and I went to a party in NYC .....

Third week in January.

No thaw.

It was 6 above zero.


Brrrrr.

Interesting, jeffmoskin!

And I wonder how many people EVEN RECOGNIZE what you are actually saying there - "NO THAW"!

NO!

There has not been!

Straight through winter!

Everything gone strange!

Weather patterns lately that are just incredible to see, let alone experience!

FREIGHT TRAIN WINDS, already, and this is just the beginning of what is going to be a long cycle of destruction, as I see it anyway!

Tornados in places that never had them before in my living memory, and at times of the year which are very strange for that kind of destructive energy to be lurking around in the atmosphere in the amounts that it is found in, and all too often these days, which people in the multiple PATHS OF DESTRUCTION are finding out to their extreme dismay!

Insanity on the most incredible scale possible, what has been done, and what is being done to the earth right now, in the name of God only knows what!

And the Bush Co. will go to the most extreme lengths possible to try and hide everything under the rug, as if that could be done by mere mortal hands with a fancy computer network that can spread ten to twenty thousand lies a minute all across OUR America and the candid world as well!

Incredible!

I'll tell you what, jeffmoskin, in a few more years, anyone who can't live close to the land in the cold climates had better start moving south right now while they still have the means.

Thanks to Bush Co. and his HUGE HOOVER VACUUM CLEANER of ALL of OUR financial resources CALLED THE IRAQ HOLY WAR, our roads are deteriorating back to the condition of cow pastures, and with the ever rising cost of things, the condition is only going to get worse and worse, especially right now, when the day time temperature is warming up to freezing, and then it goes back down to ten above at night, which is enough to set the melt water back up tight, and so heave the bejeesus out of all the roads, which breaks the pavement right apart.

INSANITY ON A GRAND SCALE!

Right in my front yard!

Hooray!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 14 2005, 04:08 PM)
Interesting, jeffmoskin!

And I wonder how many people EVEN RECOGNIZE what you are actually saying there - "NO THAW"!

NO!

There has not been!

Straight through winter!

Everything gone strange!

And everything gone strange, indeed!

And has it ever!

In a post above here, where I was posting about the "Great Awakening", there was talk of folks acting all strange, barking like dogs, etc., when the traveling "EVANGELISTS" called NEW LIGHTS came around, and you know what, I think we are back in to one of those times again up here where I am in OUR America, because I sure do hear a lot of that lately, people actually barking like dogs to each other, and the neighborhood as well!

And what a cacophony it is to hear!

And a sight to witness, as well!

Three or four or more grown men all getting together in a clump and howling like dogs!

And teaching children to do so as well!

Of course, it could simply be some new ritual that I am just not familar with, as I don't really get out, and so, just do not know the latest in fads and trends out there in what I call "CAESAR's WORLD", which begins right where the road touches my front lawn.

"CAESAR's WORLD"!

At least that is what I am told it is, by those who say they know, and they must, elsewise, why would they say they do?

CAESAR's WORLD!

And in the chunk of it that touches on my driveway, little JOHNNY BIGGG, the local politician who said to ACTRESS CHRISTINE KAPOSTACY-JANSING on TV CHANNEL 13 in October of 1988 that local developers had offered him EIGHTY THOUSAND BIG ONES to remove me from my office as a health officer trying to clean up a corrupt county health department; WHY, HE WAS CAESAR!

INCARNATE!

I know, because HE had me told so!

SO!

How about that?

When it comes so close from the HORSE's MOUTH, why, it might just be true!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Mar 11 2005, 09:54 AM)
How could a man who tells us he reads his Bible every day, not be telling us the truth?

"Democracy is taking hold in the Middle East?"

In a pig's ear, it is.

It wouldn't take much to push Lebanon into another civil war.

Who would gain?

In the case of Prime Minister Hairiri of Lebanon -- who gained by his death?

Was it Syria?


They surely knew it would cause an uprising in Lebanon.

The other entities are involved are :

The Lebanese Government.

Israel.

The U.S.

Frankly, I have no idea who was behind this.

I also wonder how thorough of an investigation we are going to get.

A.B.

Well, Mr. A.B., I think the "INVESTIGATION", if indeed we can call it that, IS GOING TO BE IN TECHNICOLOR, and ALL the CANDID world is going to be there to "SEE" it just as and when we do!

AND CUI BONO?

Let's ask this Doctor Goure above here, and that LEXINGTON INSTITUTE CROWD THAT HE SEEMS TO HANG WITH HERE, and OH YEAH, FOX NEWS .......

AND LOOK, I THINK IT IS STARTING NOW, RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES!

World - AFP

"Almost a million Lebanese turn out to press for Syrian pullout"

2 hours, 5 minutes ago

BEIRUT (AFP) - More than 800,000 people surged into central Beirut to demand an end to Syria's near-three decade military domination of Lebanon, hurling a dramatic and potent challenge to the pro-Syrian Lebanese government.

Ahead of the largest demonstration in the country's history, thousands of Lebanese travelled from all over to Martyrs Square and the grave of former prime minister Rafiq Hariri, assassinated exactly one month ago in a bomb blast.

Beirut city official Mounib Nassereddine said Monday's gathering was "at least two and a half times" larger than last Tuesday's turnout called by pro-Syrian Lebanese parties, notably the Shiite Muslim movement Hezbollah.

Correspondents estimated the crowd last week at 400,000.

Martyrs Square, seen from above, was a vast expanse of red, the dominant color in the Lebanese flag, which demonstrators waved in brilliant sunshine as they sang and chanted slogans against Syria and the Lebanese leadership and called for Lebanon's "independence" from Damascus.

Some Lebanese television stations reckoned Monday's crowd at 1.5 million.

"We say with one voice: 'no' to the Syrian military and intelligence presence, 'yes' to liberty and independence," thundered leftist political figure Elias Attallah.

Lebanese MP Marwan Hamade, the official opening speaker, charged that Lebanese and Syrian intelligence services were hiding the truth behind the assassination.

"You want the truth on the assassination?" he asked.

"It's lying in the dark chambers of the (Syrian-Lebanese) intelligence services that are ruling us and that you are in the process of sweeping out."

"They killed (Hariri) because he was thwarting their plan to make Lebanon submit."

"They killed him because they are the enemies of democracy and Arabism," Hamade declared.


"Hezbollah organized a giant demonstration last Tuesday to intimidate us," said Nada, 35, as she travelled to Beirut from Zahle in the east.

"Today we're taking up the challenge and invite (Hezbollah) to join us because we represent the true majority of the country."

Added Anwar:

"The Syrian people are our brothers."

"We have ties that go back centuries but the Syrian army and the mukhabarat (intelligence service) are no longer welcome in Lebanon."

Huguette Yamine, 57, said Monday's political demonstration was her first.

"I came with 10 family members."

"We walked here all the way from the other side of Beirut."

"We've had enough."

"I want my children to live in a free and democratic Lebanon."

Hariri's killing, widely blamed here on Syria, has energized an opposition movement aimed at forcing the withdrawal of all Syrian military and intelligence units from the country.

Syria has denied involvement and on Saturday Syrian President Bashar al-Assad gave a commitment to a UN envoy to carry out the pullback in accordance with a United Nations Security Council resolution.

Thousands of demonstrators turned out in Syria on Monday to show their support for Assad, the official Sana agency reported.

The demonstration in the city of Homs, north of Damascus, which was broadcast live on state television, was not organised by the government, Sana said.

Syrian forces in Lebanon numbered about 14,000 at the time of Hariri's murder but have since begun a redeployment, leaving north Lebanon and the mountains over Beirut for points further east on their way home across the border.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice described the Syrian pledge as "positive" but said Washington would continue to press for full compliance with UN Resolution 1559, approved last September.

But in an indication of the diplomatic difficulties that lie ahead, Lebanese President Emile Lahoud insisted Sunday that the date of a final pullout would be determined by Lebanese and Syrian authorities.

Syrian Expatriates Minister Bussaina Shaaban nonetheless told CNN Sunday that Syrian forces would likely be out of Lebanon before legislative elections there that are expected to take place before the end of May.

In some quarters, notably the country's Shia Muslim community, Syria is seen as having preserved Lebanese stability in the aftermath of the country's devastating 1975-1990 civil war.

Many Shia Muslims, who make up about 30 percent of the population, are grateful to Syria for having supported their struggle for mainstream political power after decades of exclusion.


Syrian forces entered Lebanon in 1976 to serve as a buffer between warring Lebanese factions and at one point numbered 40,000.
Abu Beacon
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 13 2005, 07:55 PM)
"
[b][color=red]"I wanted to know where God was when this happened," Free told the Chicago Sun-Times.

"He was supposed to be everywhere."

"He could have at least been there."


end quotes

"I wanted to know where God was when this happened?"

Well, let's ask Scottie "BOY" McClellan, the SPOKESCREENPERSON: WAS HE IN WASHINGTON THAT DAY, OR DOWN AT THE RANCH IN TEXAS?
*


Livyjr -----

Boy, you really have that computer you're using smoking.

I'm doing my best trying to keep up with you, but you set a mean pace.

Really good and timely stuff you are writing about, so keep 'er coming.

BTW, about that statement made by Mr. Free up above.

What I'd like to know is why are people always reprimanding God for not interceding in every tragedy and preventing any ' bad things 'from happening?

Do they also go around publicly complimenting God when good things happen?

Are these folks trying their best to keep God from being thrown out of schools?

Are they living lives which help others as God would approve of?

Or do they only mention God when things go wrong?

Just wondering.

A.B.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 14 2005, 04:32 PM)
And everything gone strange, indeed!

And has it ever!

"CAESAR's WORLD"!

At least that is what I am told it is, by those who say they know, and they must, elsewise, why would they say they do?

SO!

How about that?

When it comes so close from the HORSE's MOUTH, why, it might just be true!

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 14 2005, 04:47 PM)
AND LOOK, I THINK IT IS STARTING NOW, RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES!

World - AFP

"Almost a million Lebanese turn out to press for Syrian pullout"

BEIRUT (AFP) - More than 800,000 people surged into central Beirut to demand an end to Syria's near-three decade military domination of Lebanon, hurling a dramatic and potent challenge to the pro-Syrian Lebanese government.

Ahead of the largest demonstration in the country's history, thousands of Lebanese travelled from all over to Martyrs Square and the grave of former prime minister Rafiq Hariri, assassinated exactly one month ago in a bomb blast.

"We say with one voice: 'no' to the Syrian military and intelligence presence, 'yes' to liberty and independence," thundered leftist political figure Elias Attallah.

Lebanese MP Marwan Hamade, the official opening speaker, charged that Lebanese and Syrian intelligence services were hiding the truth behind the assassination.

"You want the truth on the assassination?" he asked.

"It's lying in the dark chambers of the (Syrian-Lebanese) intelligence services that are ruling us and that you are in the process of sweeping out."

"They killed (Hariri) because he was thwarting their plan to make Lebanon submit."

"They killed him because they are the enemies of democracy and Arabism," Hamade declared.


Hariri's killing, widely blamed here on Syria, has energized an opposition movement aimed at forcing the withdrawal of all Syrian military and intelligence units from the country.

Syria has denied involvement and on Saturday Syrian President Bashar al-Assad gave a commitment to a UN envoy to carry out the pullback in accordance with a United Nations Security Council resolution.


Syrian forces in Lebanon numbered about 14,000 at the time of Hariri's murder but have since begun a redeployment, leaving north Lebanon and the mountains over Beirut for points further east on their way home across the border.

In some quarters, notably the country's Shia Muslim community, Syria is seen as having preserved Lebanese stability in the aftermath of the country's devastating 1975-1990 civil war.

Many Shia Muslims, who make up about 30 percent of the population, are grateful to Syria for having supported their struggle for mainstream political power after decades of exclusion.

Syrian forces entered Lebanon in 1976 to serve as a buffer between warring Lebanese factions and at one point numbered 40,000.

SO!

Lebanese MP Marwan Hamade, the official opening speaker, charged that Lebanese and Syrian intelligence services were hiding the truth behind the assassination!

OKAY!

CHECK!

Got that!

"You want the truth on the assassination?" he asked.

YOU BET WE DO!

That's what Mr. A.B. was saying right above here, AND I AGREE WITH HIM, YES, WE DO WANT THE TRUTH!

SO?

"They killed (Hariri) because he was thwarting their plan to make Lebanon submit."

WHAT?

What are you talking about, SUBMIT TO WHAT?

Syria is leaving!

"They killed him because they are the enemies of democracy and Arabism," Hamade declared?

Then why are they leaving?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Mar 14 2005, 04:57 PM)
BTW, about that statement made by Mr. Free up above.

What I'd like to know is why are people always reprimanding God for not interceding in every tragedy and preventing any 'bad things' from happening?

Do they also go around publicly complimenting God when good things happen?


Are these folks trying their best to keep God from being thrown out of schools?

Are they living lives which help others as God would approve of?

Or do they only mention God when things go wrong?

Just wondering.

A.B.

You know, Mr. A.B., I had considered saying something along those lines, but for the moment, refrained!

MY thought was, "What's God getting the bad rap here for; he didn't pull the trigger, after all, and I doubt that it was HIS or HER idea, so what's with blaming God?"

What was it Jesus said on behalf of God?

"Leave to CAESAR that which is CAESAR's?"

I think that THIS is CAESAR's, myself, and not God's!

SO!

WHERE WAS CAESAR WHEN THOSE PEOPLE NEEDED HIM?

And that answer is just like it was for those other folks on 9-11 - NOT THERE!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 14 2005, 05:33 PM)
SO!

WHERE WAS CAESAR WHEN THOSE PEOPLE NEEDED HIM?

And that answer is just like it was for those other folks on 9-11 - NOT THERE!

And here I have got to say at this point that since 9-11, I have seen what to me is some of the most obscene EXPLOITATION of victims FOR POLITICAL PROPAGANDA PURPOSES that I have ever seen, and to me, this following NEWSWEEK article just about takes the cake on that score of EXPLOITING, FOR THE PURPOSES OF POLITICAL PROPAGANDA the misery of others to "MAKE A BUCK", here in this EXPLOITATIVE AMURKA of Mr. George W. Bush:

"Children of the Fallen - Over 1,000 American kids have lost a parent in the Iraq war. Who they are, and how they're coping"

Newsweek

This story was written by Jerry Adler with reporting from Debra Rosenberg, T. Trent Gegax, Pat Wingert, Daren Briscoe, Hilary Shenfeld, Kiyoshi Martinez, Dirk Johnson, Jamie Reno and Andrew Horesh

March 21 issue - They were prepared to die, even the truck drivers and supply clerks; any American who sets foot in Iraq must be.

They made out wills, as the military requires, and left behind letters and videos for their families.

The families in turn prepared for the day when they might open the door to find a chaplain on the other side.

In military families the notion of duty is not confined to the battlefield.

On the morning that 14-year-old Rohan Osbourne learned that his mother, Pamela, had been killed in a mortar attack on her Army base, his father dropped him off as usual at Robert M. Shoemaker High School, where three quarters of the students are the children of soldiers from nearby Fort Hood, Texas.

"I might not get a lot of work done today, ma'am," Rohan politely explained to his teacher.

"My mommy died yesterday in Iraq."


War notoriously robs parents of their sons, but it also steals husbands and fathers, and increasingly wives and mothers.

The Pentagon doesn't keep these statistics, but using figures compiled by the Scripps-Howard News Service and other sources, NEWSWEEK has calculated that as of last week 1,043 American children had lost a parent in Iraq.

To put it another way, nearly two years after the invasion on March 19, 2003, among the 1,508 American troops who have died as of March 11 were an estimated 450 fathers, and 7 mothers.

A wartime death presents unique hardships for children.

It occurs in a far-off country, often to a parent who left home months earlier; young children may find it hard to grasp the finality of the event.

Offsetting that is the impressive panoply and ritual of a military funeral, and the consoling knowledge that the sacrifice was in a worthy cause.

The death of a parent often leaves a family not just sadder, but poorer, and surviving spouses are agitating for improvements in their benefits.

But there are needs no government program can fill.

The fathers were big strong men, like Nino Livaudais, a 23-year-old Army Ranger with two tours in Afghanistan behind him before the invasion.

His son Destre, now 7, is still struggling to understand how such a hero could have been killed by a mere bomb.

"I can kind of picture it," he says hesitantly.

"But it's hard to picture it."

"I don't really think explosions hurt that much."

"My dad's usually a tough man."

"He went through about five wars."

Livaudais left, besides Destre (then 5) and his wife, Jackie, a 2-year-old son, Carson, and Grant, who was born after his death.

As relatives gathered on the family porch after Nino's funeral, Carson grew excited by all the unexpected company and started calling for his daddy to join the party.

He then turned around, puzzled, as the grown-ups all burst into tears.

And their mothers were loving and devoted, like Spc. Jessica Cawvey, 21.

Before she left for Iraq last February with her Illinois National Guard unit, her daughter, Sierra, made her pinkie-swear she wouldn't die.

So when Cawvey was killed by a roadside bomb in Fallujah last October, it was not merely a tragedy for Sierra, it was a kind of betrayal.

"We had to explain that even though she died, it wasn't her mommy's fault," said Kevin Cawvey, Sierra's grandfather.

Vanessa Arroyave, who was 6 when her father, Marine S/Sgt. Jimmy Javier Arroyave, was deployed, was certain he would die in Iraq.

"She was very adamant about that," says her mother, Rachelle.

The little girl was right.

Last April, when Arroyave was killed in a truck accident, Vanessa told her mother:

"I told you so."

So Rachelle faced the mirror image of the Cawvey family's problem.

She had to reassure her daughter that by predicting her father's death, she hadn't brought it about.

The sudden onslaughts of grief are sometimes almost more than Nelda Howton, the principal of Osbourne's school near Fort Hood, can bear.

She has picked up the phone to find a mother sobbing on the other end, begging Howton to drive her son home.

One girl's aunt walked straight to the classroom and appeared in the doorway, tears streaming down her face.

The students do characteristically thoughtless things, like asking Jessica Blankenbecler for her autograph because they had seen her on television.

Blankenbecler, a pretty sophomore, was the first student at Shoemaker to lose a parent in Iraq.

That wasn't the worst of it; one girl told her, "I wish something would happen to my dad because then we'd get rich"—a remark that carried a particular sting because Blankenbecler's mother, Linnie, thinks they're actually going to be poor.

Compensation for the families of soldiers killed in action is a politically and emotionally charged issue, particularly in light of the changing makeup of the military.

The saying used to be that "if the Army wanted you to have a wife, they would have issued you one," but the proportion of married soldiers is higher today than in any previous war, says Charlie Moskos, a Northwestern University sociologist.

The military today is a better-paid career than most high-school graduates could aspire to otherwise, which may explain why the average male soldier now gets married at 24—three years younger than the rest of the population.

The heavy reliance on Reserves and National Guard troops also puts family men and women on the front lines in unprecedented numbers.

Of the Americans killed in Iraq through the end of November 2004, more than two in five were married.

Characteristically, the military and Congress have responded to the urgent needs of the survivors by adding new layers of bureaucracy to a system that dates back to the Civil War (and, in fact, is still paying benefits to five offspring of Civil War veterans).

Spouses receive a lump-sum "death gratuity" of $12,420, plus life insurance of as much as $250,000.

This payment would be effectively doubled by a bill that is expected to pass in the next month.

Families are eligible for Social Security payments and for two different kinds of government annuities, although the fine print requires an offsetting reduction in one if you also collect the other.

Survivors are eligible for generous college-tuition grants and lifetime subsidized health care.

As an illustration, the National Military Families Association calculated the benefits for the family (a wife and children ages 1 and 3) of an enlisted man with a salary of $38,064 a year, including a housing allowance and combat pay.

Apart from the lump-sum payments, his wife would receive the equivalent of an annual income of $57,624, falling to $45,804 after two years, then declining in steps as the children reach adulthood.

By the time the younger child turns 23, the wife's check would amount to only about a quarter of her husband's active-duty salary.

Last year the Department of Veterans Affairs added bereavement counseling to the package of benefits.

This supplements the work of a voluntary organization called TAPS—Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors—which organizes "emotional peer-to-peer" counseling among kids.

There are also freelance outreach efforts by the adult children of servicemen killed in Vietnam, who are now approaching middle age themselves.

Tony Cordero, who was 4 when his father, William, was killed in 1965, founded a survivors' group called Sons and Daughters in Touch, which has begun inviting the children of Iraqi casualties to its Father's Day memorials.

Ever since the publication of her family memoir ("Hero Mama"), the writer Karen Spears Zacharias, whose father was killed in Vietnam, has become a magnet for bereaved kids, who write and call her at all hours.

In quiet visits, she tells them she understands how they feel:

"It's difficult to lose a father in an unpopular war."

Psychologists have learned a lot about how to help children through the grief process.

Unfortunately one of the most important recommendations—to avoid unnecessary changes to the child's daily routine—is impossible for many military families, who generally have to move off base within six months.

Previous advice that a healthy adjustment required a clean break with the deceased parent is now inoperative; current thinking is that children "want and need a continuing bond to their dead parent," according to J. William Worden, co-director of Harvard's Child Bereavement Study.

"They talk to them, they keep things that belong to them, they dream about them and think about them," he says.

Tony Bertolino Jr., 15, appears to have memorized the entire career and duties of his father, an Army sergeant who was killed in an ambush in late 2003.

"He was a highly respected soldier and man," he says.

David Kirchhoff Jr., whose father, an Iowa guardsman, died of heat stroke in Iraq in 2003, has turned his bedroom into a virtual shrine to his father, including a wall of photographs.

Like many sons of soldiers, he imagines enlisting himself someday.

His plan, though, is to "go over there and tell everybody it's not worth it."

Compared with the 20,000 American children who lost a father in Vietnam, the families of Iraqi war casualties have the advantage that almost all of them are getting a body back.

Many men back then were lost in the jungle or the air and were—or still are—listed as "missing," leaving their families to wonder, "Is he going to be coming around the corner one day?" says Cordero.

It was with that in mind that Tina Cline, whose husband, Marine Lance Cpl. Donald Cline, was killed in an explosion on the fourth day of the invasion, decided to let 2-year-old Dakota look inside the flag-draped coffin at the uniformed body inside.

The body had no head.

"Daddy's not coming home," she whispered to her son, who was dressed in a tiny dark suit and tie.

"He's got a bigger job to do, helping God in heaven."

Parents have always said that, to little boys who stood at attention and promised their moms they would be brave.

They wore their father's dog tags to school, and, in the way of things, eventually went off to fight in their own wars.

On the same day that Cline's vehicle was hit by a shell, Marine Sgt. Phillip Jordan was killed in Nasiriya, leaving behind a 6-year-old son, Tyler, whom he called "Lavabug."

For a week after, Tyler sulked around the house in his 6-foot-3-inch father's camouflage shirt, refusing to eat or to talk to his mother, Amanda.

"God needed Daddy in heaven," she explained recently.

"Well," he replied, "I needed him, too."
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 14 2005, 03:47 PM)
Syrian forces entered Lebanon in 1976 to serve as a buffer between warring Lebanese factions and at one point numbered 40,000.
*

Question: And do you remember who stirred up those factions into war?


Answer: Yassir Arafat.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 10 2005, 03:13 PM)
And speaking of having no confidence whatsoever in George W. Bush:
 
Top Stories - The Christian Science Monitor

"War mistake tests Italy's patience"

Thu Mar 10, 9:33 AM ET 

Italy and the US have agreed to a joint investigation of the death of an Italian agent who rescued a hostage.

By Sophie Arie, Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

ROME - They've had the tears, the tributes, and the angry accusations.

Now, Italians want answers.

In an effort to solder their strained relations, the United States and Italy have agreed that they will join forces to investigate how an Italian intelligence agent was shot dead by American troops as he accompanied a rescued hostage, journalist Giulia Sgrena, to the Baghdad Airport last week.


"In a lot of cases, victims are not satisfied," says Daniel Goure, vice president of the Lexington Institute, in Arlington Va.

"You do not want a military man hesitating to fire because he's worried about the legal ramifications," he adds.

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 11 2005, 04:59 PM)
Dr. Daniel Goure
Vice President
Lexington Institute

Dr. Goure is a Vice President with the Lexington Institute, a nonprofit public-policy research organization headquartered in Arlington, Virginia.

Dr. Goure is a well-known and respective presence in the national and international media, having been interviewed by all the major networks, CNN, Fox, the BBC, the New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, the Christian Science Monitor, the Chicago Tribune and the Los Angeles Times. 

He is also an NBC national security military analyst.

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 11 2005, 04:36 PM)
And who on earth is Doctor Daniel Goure, and what is the Lexington Institute, and how does he and it get to have a say in how OUR American military is run, especially with regard to stripping our American military of legal consequnces for its actions?

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 14 2005, 05:51 PM)
And here I have got to say at this point that since 9-11, I have seen what to me is some of the most obscene EXPLOITATION of victims FOR POLITICAL PROPAGANDA PURPOSES that I have ever seen, and to me, this following NEWSWEEK article just about takes the cake on that score of EXPLOITING, FOR THE PURPOSES OF POLITICAL PROPAGANDA the misery of others to "MAKE A BUCK", here in this EXPLOITATIVE AMURKA of Mr. George W. Bush:

"Children of the Fallen - Over 1,000 American kids have lost a parent in the Iraq war. Who they are, and how they're coping"
 
Newsweek

This story was written by Jerry Adler with reporting from Debra Rosenberg, T. Trent Gegax, Pat Wingert, Daren Briscoe, Hilary Shenfeld, Kiyoshi Martinez, Dirk Johnson, Jamie Reno and Andrew Horesh

March 21 issue - They were prepared to die, even the truck drivers and supply clerks; any American who sets foot in Iraq must be.

They made out wills, as the military requires, and left behind letters and videos for their families.

The families in turn prepared for the day when they might open the door to find a chaplain on the other side.

In military families the notion of duty is not confined to the battlefield.

On the morning that 14-year-old Rohan Osbourne learned that his mother, Pamela, had been killed in a mortar attack on her Army base, his father dropped him off as usual at Robert M. Shoemaker High School, where three quarters of the students are the children of soldiers from nearby Fort Hood, Texas.

"I might not get a lot of work done today, ma'am," Rohan politely explained to his teacher.

"My mommy died yesterday in Iraq."


A wartime death presents unique hardships for children.

It occurs in a far-off country, often to a parent who left home months earlier; young children may find it hard to grasp the finality of the event.

Offsetting that is the impressive panoply and ritual of a military funeral, and the consoling knowledge that the sacrifice was in a worthy cause.

And PARDON ME, AMERICA, but what exactly is this crap, "THE SACRIFICE WAS IN A WORTHY CAUSE"?

WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN?

How has a war in Iraq that started based upon nothing but an apparently endless STRING OF LIES, HALF-TRUTHS, DECEPTIONS, AND EVASIONS now been SPUN UP INTO A "WORTHY CAUSE"?

How do lies ever make a cause "WORTHY"?

And why are we hearing this crap from such an alleged "NEWS" magazine as "NEWSWEEK"?

HOW ABOUT "PROPAGANDAWEEK", instead?

And they got the nerve to throw stones at Dan Rather!

Incredible!

Poor Dan!

He was just on the wrong side!

IF HE HAD BEEN WILLING TO LIE FOR THE BUSH CO.'s, HE'D STILL BE WORKING ON TV IS WHAT I BET, or maybe he would be writing articles for "PROPAGANDAWEEK" like this one above, TELLING US ALL how lucky we are to have this Bush Co. as president of the SUN, MOON and STARS, and how GLORIOUS A CAUSE THIS BUSH CO. "HOLY WAR" REALLY IS, and how proud all these children really should be that they had a chance, a rare chance, indeed, OFFERED to them by the Bush Co. to have their parents MARTYERED for the Bush Co.

HOW OBSCENE!

HOW BUSH CO.!
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 14 2005, 06:20 PM)
Question: And do you remember who stirred up those factions into war?

Answer: Yassir Arafat.

Hhhhmmmm.

Here I must say no, I don't recall this, although right now I won't dispute what you say, because I honestly cannot say one way or the other.

I truly do not know!

However, some time back in "VOLUME I" of "Life in OUR America", I did a long post on the history of Lebanon in anticipation of what was to come, which is this what is unfolding before OUR eyes in here, and so, I am going to go back and get that article, for Lebanon has a very long history, and this thing of "factions" in Lebanon goes back way before Yassir Arafat ever drew a breath on this green earth of OURS.

If you had told me the BRITISH were responsible for the mess in Lebanon, I would have no trouble believing that, for history shows them being behind much of the strife in this area since at least the end of WWI, but Yassir Arafat?

I just don't know, and so, I don't want to give him credit where it is just not due!

SO!

Let us leave that as an open subject that needs more definition!
Abu Beacon
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 14 2005, 07:20 PM)
Question: And do you remember who stirred up those factions into war?
Answer: Yassir Arafat.
*


About three years ago, I was corresponding with a relative in Canada, who until fairly recently lived in Lebanon.

I made a comment which was construed by him to be complimentary to Yassir Arafat.

I found out then how deep the antipathy toward Arafat really was.

Greatly disliked, at least by the Christians, who held him to a large degree responsible for much of Lebanon's problems.

To those people who somehow believe that all Arabs are united in all their thinking -- forget it.

It ain't so.

A.B.
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Mar 14 2005, 06:24 PM)
About three years ago, I was corresponding with a relative in Canada, who until fairly recently lived in Lebanon.

I made a comment which was construed by him to be complimentary to Yassir Arafat.

I found out then how deep the antipathy toward Arafat really was.

Greatly disliked, at least by the Christians, who held him to a large degree responsible for much of Lebanon's problems.

To those people who somehow believe that all Arabs are united in all their thinking -- forget it.

It ain't so.

A.B.
*

Arafat was a one-man disaster. After the 67 war, Arafat made political hay out of Nasser's disgrace from losing the war. He united a lot of dissident groups of ne'er do wells into his PLO whose central core was the destruction of Israel. Look closely at photos of Arafat in his silly soldier costume (he never served in ANY army - not ever): there is a patch on his shoulder in red showing the outline of "Palestine." Oh, yes, it includes the State of Israel!

Anyway, he fomented an attempt to overthrow Jordan's King Hussein. The King, less than pleased with this attempted coup, ran Arafat clear out of the West Bank and north up into Lebanon.

In Beirut, once called the "Switzerland of the Middle East," he once again fomented trouble between the various factions who had somehow previously managed to get along into a full-blown civil war which lasted 15 years, ruined a beautiful city, and bankrupted the country.

Finally, cornered by the Israelis in 1982 (Sharon was asked by a sharpshooter who had him in the crosshairs for authorization to fire. He didn't give it. He regretted it ever since), he "escaped" under cover from US warships in the Eastern Med to Tunis.
Syria moved in to counter the Israelis.

Arafat had more lives than a cat. Finally, he has exhausted them.

I heard that he was buried in a glass coffin so they could keep an eye on him.
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Mar 14 2005, 07:46 PM)
Arafat was a one-man disaster.

And thank you for this, jeffmoskin!

After I left here last night, I was thinking on this, to be truthful, trying to figure how I missed all of this, AS I THINK OF ARAFAT as nothing more than just a "small timer" in HISTORY!

Now, trying to interpolate from the "dates", it is possible that during some of this time, I was in Viet Nam, where I did not actually have time to know very much concerning what was going on in the world, and for some time after, that was also the case.

SO!

It seems Mr. Arafat was less than such a "small timer", OR ......

"Small-timers" really can make big messes!

It is interesting that Arafat is a name that I instantly recognize, and his face comes to mind, BUT NOTHING that he ever did or said comes with it!

He is like a complete "non-entity" to me, and so, it is interesting to get your perspective here, on the matter.

A whole 'nother chunk of history of which I am totally unaware!

And I have a friend who came from Beirut, who was there as a child during the troubles!

He is a Lebanese who is not an arab!

His claim is to the Phoenician roots of Lebanon, although over here, where he is a mechanic of cars, when the Bush Co. was raising up dust about Arabs after 9-11, this person was being maligned and boycotted, AS AN ARAB, because he looks like someone who came from the Middle East!

Go figure!

I'll have to ask him about Arafat, now!
Livyjr
And speaking of "small-timers" who have a proclivity to make real big messes:

Top Stories - washingtonpost.com

"Skepticism of Bush's Social Security Plan Is Growing"

Tue Mar 15, 6:36 AM ET

By Jonathan Weisman, Washington Post Staff Writer

Three months after President Bush launched his drive to restructure Social Security by creating private investment accounts, public support for his program remains weak, with only 35 percent of Americans now saying they approve of his handling of the issue, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

While the White House has helped convince more than two-thirds of those polled that Social Security is heading for a crisis or possible bankruptcy without change, 56 percent disapprove of his approach, a survey of 1,001 adults conducted March 10-13 shows.

By comparison, 38 percent approved of his handling of the issue and 52 percent disapproved of it in mid-December.

Moreover, 58 percent of those polled this time said the more they hear about Bush's plan, the less they like it.

The latest polling, combined with detailed interviews last week, shows that Bush's drive to significantly alter the 70-year-old national insurance program has run into significant hurdles with every age cohort.


A majority of elderly voters have turned against the plan for private accounts, even though the White House has assured them it would have no impact on their Social Security benefits.

Younger workers, who have the most to gain, also tend to be the most difficult to mobilize, according to interviews.

And many middle-aged workers are faced with the reality that there would not be enough time before their retirement to gain much financial benefit from the new approach.

"The president knows it's a challenge and is taking it head-on," White House spokesman Trent Duffy said.

"He is just getting started, and he's going to keep traveling, pushing and explaining to people of all ages why Social Security needs to be fixed permanently and why it's best that personal accounts be part of the solution."

For middle-aged workers such as Kathy Remenar of Midland, Mich., the issue is simple mathematics.

"I personally wouldn't get a whole lot out of it, really," said the 46-year-old director of science and technology for Dow Corning Corp.'s specialty chemicals business.

"It's not relevant to me."

Bush has promised that, under his proposal, workers would eventually be able to divert 4 percent of their income subject to payroll taxes to private accounts, which could then be invested in stocks and bonds.

A 46-year-old earning the maximum income subject to Social Security taxation -- currently $90,000 -- could theoretically salt away $3,600 a year.

But the plan would be phased in slowly, starting in 2009 with an initial annual cap of $1,000 and rising by $100 a year.

It would take an additional 26 years for someone at the taxable maximum to save the promised 4 percent.

By then, Remenar would be 76 and long since retired.

And in the short time period available to middle-aged workers, investment gains would have to exceed inflation by 3 percent for the accounts to make more money than the traditional Social Security system would provide.

"If there are no other incentives than this, we probably wouldn't take part in it, because the numbers don't make a whole lot of sense for us personally," said Sue Smorodin, 45, a homemaker in St. Louis.

Republican Michael Cardwell, a land-use planner in Washington state, did the math.

He would retire with $11,000 in his account, plus maybe $900 more in investment gains if all went well on the stock market.

"Wow," Cardwell, 50, said with a laugh.

"I may get one additional paycheck, thank you very much."

Nonetheless, he said he will support the president.

Not all middle-aged workers are skeptical.

Marilyn Donnelly, a 46-year-old nurse on Florida's central Atlantic coast, said that with luck a personal account could grow substantially, and she relishes the opportunity to give it a try.

She is already saving 16 percent of her income for retirement, Donnelly said, but too much of her paycheck is going to a Social Security system that is not likely to do as well with the money as she could.

"I want the opportunity to invest some of that money myself so it will grow more than what Social Security is going to give me," said Donnelly, of Rockledge.

"And I feel [Bush is] offering me that opportunity."

But after nearly a dozen interviews with middle-aged voters, it appears Donnelly's optimism is not widely shared.

"If you're my age, it isn't going to make much difference really," said Mark Kaufman, 52, a rancher and farmer in Nebraska's panhandle.

"I can't get all that excited."

"It won't add up to much," agreed John Hall, 50, a small-business man in Lubbock, Tex., and a strong supporter of the president.

"But for my daughter, it could be a tremendous amount."

"She's 19 years old, and for her, the future of the Social Security system is not too bright."

Indeed, the White House is pinning its political hopes on younger voters such as Hall's daughter.

They tend to be deeply ambivalent about the future of Social Security and blessed with enough time until retirement to build up sizable accounts.

In this month's poll, 68 percent of adults 18 to 29 years old said they support investing some Social Security contributions in the stock market.

That support falls with the respondents' age, to 60 percent among those 40 to 49, 53 percent among those 50 to 64, and 37 percent among those 65 and older.

But young workers present their own political problems.

For one thing, they tend to be less politically involved.

Only 38 percent of young respondents say they know much about Bush's Social Security proposal, well below the levels seen among middle-aged and elderly respondents.

At 32, Kathy Lavigne of Wayzata, Minn., said she thinks she supports the president's Social Security plans.

But, she conceded, she cannot be sure.

"Honestly, I've discussed it with my business partner here or there, but I'm not watching it too closely," the insurance saleswoman said.

If she were moved to call her representative in Congress, she would have a little problem.

She does not know her congressman's name.


If it were up to Ray Waters, a 32-year-old construction sales representative in Kansas, he would keep all of his Social Security taxes in a private account, but absent that, he strongly backs Bush's proposal.

"I guess it comes down to it's my money," he said.

But though his congressman, Rep. Dennis Moore, is a perennial Republican target, Waters is not clamoring for a bullhorn to pressure the state's only Democrat in Congress.

"I don't get to camp out in front of Fox News as much as I would like to," he said.

"Between work and a little boy and a baby, there's not a whole lot of time for politics."

Finally, younger workers may support the idea of private accounts, but they also tend to oppose Bush.

Democratic candidate John F. Kerry claimed 54 percent of the 18-to-29-year-old vote in November, the only age bracket he carried.

And distrust of the president is lingering among even some young workers inclined to support investing part of their Social Security contribution.


Only 40 percent of these younger workers say they support Bush's Social Security proposal.

"I'm not a big fan of Bush, not at all," said Michelle Hinson, 31, of Morgan Hill, Calif., just south of San Jose.

But she grudgingly says she likes the idea of personal accounts.

"If I think it's a good idea, then I'm willing to listen and hear what's going on."

"But for the most part, I don't agree with anything he's doing."

If young voters tend to be apathetic or ambivalent, the elderly are anything but.

GOP strategists are convinced Republican politicians must emphasize over and over that anyone older than 55 will not be affected by the plan.

By exempting those in or near retirement from participation in the accounts or any benefit reductions, Bush hopes to neutralize opposition from the most vocal and reliable voting bloc.

But the strategy may backfire, homemaker Smorodin said, noting that her mother has grown incensed about the issue.

By and large, the elderly do understand the president has promised not to touch their Social Security checks, according to polling.

But that is not relevant to their political opposition, Smorodin said, noting that older people also worry that pension benefit cuts will hurt their children and grandchildren.


At 69, Gene Wallace knows the White House's proposal would have no impact on his Social Security check, but if Bush believes that will silence the Republican mayor of Coldwater, Mich., Wallace grumbled, "he's all wet."

"I'm a parent as well as a grandparent."

"Somewhere along the line, they are going to be eligible for retirement assistance," he said, with all the energy he could muster three weeks after open-heart surgery.

"It's everybody's concern what happens to this country."


Assistant polling director Claudia Deane contributed to this report.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 15 2005, 11:40 AM)
And speaking of "small-timers" who have a proclivity to make real big messes:

Top Stories - washingtonpost.com

"Skepticism of Bush's Social Security Plan Is Growing"

Tue Mar 15, 6:36 AM ET 

By Jonathan Weisman, Washington Post Staff Writer

Three months after President Bush launched his drive to restructure Social Security by creating private investment accounts, public support for his program remains weak, with only 35 percent of Americans now saying they approve of his handling of the issue, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Finally, younger workers may support the idea of private accounts, but they also tend to oppose Bush.

Democratic candidate John F. Kerry claimed 54 percent of the 18-to-29-year-old vote in November, the only age bracket he carried.

And distrust of the president is lingering among even some young workers inclined to support investing part of their Social Security contribution.


If young voters tend to be apathetic or ambivalent, the elderly are anything but.

GOP strategists are convinced Republican politicians must emphasize over and over that anyone older than 55 will not be affected by the plan.

By exempting those in or near retirement from participation in the accounts or any benefit reductions, Bush hopes to neutralize opposition from the most vocal and reliable voting bloc.

But the strategy may backfire, homemaker Smorodin said, noting that her mother has grown incensed about the issue.

By and large, the elderly do understand the president has promised not to touch their Social Security checks, according to polling.

But that is not relevant to their political opposition, Smorodin said, noting that older people also worry that pension benefit cuts will hurt their children and grandchildren.


At 69, Gene Wallace knows the White House's proposal would have no impact on his Social Security check, but if Bush believes that will silence the Republican mayor of Coldwater, Mich., Wallace grumbled, "he's all wet."

"I'm a parent as well as a grandparent."

"Somewhere along the line, they are going to be eligible for retirement assistance," he said, with all the energy he could muster three weeks after open-heart surgery.

"It's everybody's concern what happens to this country."

WHAT'S WITH THIS BUSH CO.?

I am an older American, AND I AM INCENSED THAT BUSH CO. WOULD TRY TO "BUY" US OFF, to have us turn OUR backs on the younger Americans who are just coming along, and so do not have "political awareness" to any great degree, yet, AND THIS IS TYPICAL BUSH CO. B*** S***!

TURN US AGAINST EACH OTHER!

Break us up into "FACTIONS", and then buy us off, a faction at a time!

"OKAY, OKAY, LOOK, all you OLDER AMERICANS OUT THERE, look, I'll do a deal with you, and I'll exempt you from the screwing that I'm going to make sure your children and grandchildren get, AND SINCE YOU CAN'T SAVE THEM ANYWAY, DO THE SMART THING, TAKE THE DEAL WHILE IT'S ON THE TABLE!"

Well, guess what, George, NO DEAL!

Go pound salt!

Or is it sand?

Drat this getting old!

Never can keep anything straight anymore!

HHHHmmmmm.

Is it "go pound sand"?

No, must be salt, or is it sand ........
Abu Beacon
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Mar 15 2005, 12:29 PM)
And I have a friend who came from Beirut, who was there as a child during the troubles!

He is a Lebanese who is not an arab!

His claim is to the Phoenician roots of Lebanon, although over here, where he is a mechanic of cars, when the Bush Co. was raising up dust about Arabs after 9-11, this person was being maligned and boycotted, AS AN ARAB, because he looks like someone who came from the Middle East!

Go figure!

I'll have to ask him about Arafat, now!
*


Livyjr

Many, many Lebanese people claim roots to the ancient Phoenicians.

Due to the invasions over the years by several Arab countries, Phoenicia as a nation became integrated with other Arabs, so today there is no Phoenicia.

I'm attaching a short write up about ancient Phoenicia, which I copied from Google. There are many other articles on Phoenicia which can be obtained from Google, if you have some spare time.

Live and learn, eh?

A.B.
Abu Beacon
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Mar 15 2005, 01:41 PM)
Livyjr

Many, many Lebanese people claim roots to the ancient Phoenicians.

Due to the invasions over the years by several Arab countries, Phoenicia as a nation became integrated with other Arabs, so today there is no Phoenicia.

I'm attaching a short write up about ancient Phoenicia, which I copied from Google. There are many other articles on Phoenicia which can be obtained from Google, if you have some spare time.

Live and learn, eh?

A.B.
*


PHOENICIANS

From 1200 to 800 B.C. the Semitic-speaking Phoenicians lived and prospered on the Mediterranean coast north of Palestine. Their chief cities were Tyre and Sidon. They gained fame as sailors and traders. They occupied a string of cities along the Mediterranean coast, in what is today Lebanon and Syria.

Contributions to Civilization Manufacturing and trade. The coastal land, though narrow, was fertile and supported farming. Still, the resourceful Phoenicians became best known for manufacturing and trade. They made glass from coastal sand. From a tiny sea snail, they produced a widely admired purple dye, called "Tyrian purple" after the city of Tyre, which became their trademark. It became the favorite color of royalty.

Phoenicians also used papyrus from Egypt to make scrolls, or rolls of paper, for books. The words Bible and bibliography come from the Phoenician city of Byblos. Phoenicians traded with people all around the Mediterranean Sea. To promote trade, they set up colonies from North Africa to Sicily and Spain. A colony is a territory settled and ruled by people from a distant land.


Missionaries of Civilization.Due to their sailing skills, the Phoenicians served as missionaries of civiliization, bringing eastern Mediterranean products and culture to less advanced peoples. A few Phoenician traders braved the stormy Atlantic and sailed as far as England. There, they exchanged goods from the Mediterranean for tin. About 600 B.C., one Phoenician expedition may have sailed down the Red Sea and then followed the African coast around the southern tip. That historic voyage was forgotten for centuries. (In the late 1400's, Europeans claimed to be the first to round the southern tip of Africa.)

The Alphabet. As merchants, the Phoenicians needed a simple alphabet to ease the burden of keeping records. They therefore replaced the cumbersome cuneiform alphabet of 550 characters with a phonetic alphabet, based on distinct sounds, consisting of 22 letters. After further alterations by the Greeks and Romans, this alphabet became the one we use today!
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