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Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Feb 14 2005, 07:52 PM)
And, on the eve of June 5, 1944, he was extremely concerned because he KNEW how many men would be killed in the coming D-Day landing.

Every one of those men was of concern to him.

And that is a point, isn't it, jeffmoskin!

Eisenhower WAS a soldier!

He knew the "business", and he knew the "human costs" of that "business" only too well!

I have heard first-person accounts from WWII D-Day vets of how Eisenhower actually came around to shake their hands and wish them well and "God speed" in the hours before the actual D-Day invasion.

Quite a reversal from the gladiators in the ring having to salute the emporer of Rome before they died; which seems to be the "model" for the administration of this present incumbent that we have in power in OUR America these days!

Here, Eisenhower, the top general came to do the saluting!

Perhaps it was about being "fallible" back in those days, before we became this alleged "SUPERPOWER"; or maybe a lot more humble, when America was simply America, and not the "HOMELAND" of something or other that has never been explained to me, despite my being a natural-born American, myself!

Eisenhower knew, I would think, that in war, there is no "perfection", and so, people do die, and horribly so, and that was in his heart and on his mind, in those hours and days before that invasion, which was to eventually crush the menace that Hitler and his crowd represented to the civilized world!

Now, of course, we are a "SUPERPOWER", at least in the minds of the "big talkers" down there in Washington, and their media shills who exist for the purpose of spewing propaganda, to mislead us, and of course, AS A SUPERPOWER, we can do no wrong, especially when that is all we are doing, which is why we have these media shills, to make it sound as if the truth were just not so!

The demonstrable truth is a fabrication, and lies from George W. Bush are actually the truth!

And if Dwight David Eisenhower were to have been a general today, with this perverted Rumsfeld crowd that inhabits the highest corridors of power in the PERVERT-A-GON down there in Washington, he, Eisenhower, would probably be sacked, like General Shinseki was.

And looking at it the other way, can you possibly imagine what a dog's dinner D-Day in WWII would have been if this Bush Co. crowd had been in charge of things back then?

Of course, with the Bush Co.'s in charge back in the days of Hitler, it is likely that there would never have been an invasion of Germany at all, and that is something to think on as well, especially these days, where Karl Rove's "little red playbook" of political tricks seems to have come directly from the archives of the National Socialists in Germany in the days immediately before and after the Reichstag Fire that put Hilter firmly in power in Germany.

Wheels turning!

And yes, they are!
Livyjr
And here is a late-breaking story that I just encountered, which may have implications for the future of all of us, here in OUR America, and the candid world as well:

White House - AP Cabinet & State

"U.S. Withdraws Ambassador From Syria"

1 minute ago

By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer

WASHINGTON - The United States has recalled its ambassador to Syria amid rising tensions over the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri of Lebanon.

Before departing, U.S. Ambassador Margaret Scobey delivered a stern note, called a demarche in diplomatic parlance, to the Syrian government, said an official who discussed the situation only on grounds of anonymity.

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher, announcing the move, said it reflected the Bush administration's "profound outrage" over Hariri's assassination.

Boucher refused to blame Syria outright for the bombing in Beirut Monday.

He would say only that it illustrates that Syria's strong military and political presence in Lebanon is a problem and has not provided security in the neighboring country.

"It reminds us even more starkly that the Syrian presence in Lebanon is not good," Boucher said.

"It has not brought anything to the Lebanese people."

Boucher refused to describe Syria's rection to Scobey's diplomatic messages in Damascus.

Syria has not yet taken any reciprocal action, such as withdrawing its own amabssador to Washington.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan, apparently referring to the note Scobey delivered to the Syrian foreign ministry, said the United States has "made it clear to Syria that we expect Syria to act in accordance with the United Nations Security Council resolution calling for the withdrawal of all foreign forces and the disbanding of militias."

Also, McClellan said, "we also made it clear to Sryia that we want them to use their influence to prevent the kind of terroist attack that took place yesterday from happening."

The administration had earlier condemned the killing of Hariri, a billionaire construction magnate who masterminded the recovery of his country, and insisted that Syria comply with a U.N. resolution calling for the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon.

Hariri, like most Lebanese politicians, walked a thin line between criticizing Damascus and deferring to the country that plays a dominant role in Lebanon's affairs.

He resigned four months ago in light of tensions with Syria but was weighing a political comeback.

A Sunni Muslim, Hariri was on good terms with Lebanese Christians and was especially close to French President Jacques Chirac, who has called for an international investigation into the assassination.

The Bush administration did not directly support Chirac on his call for an international inquiry, but the White House said those responsible for the bombing of Hariri's motorcade must be punished.
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 15 2005, 10:52 AM)
I remember, A.B., when America was just plain, old America, with none of this "homeland" and "superpower" crap being bandied about as if it meant something, or anything at all, to anybody out there besides the blowhards who use this kind of hyberbolic language to make themselves sound like important, "big men" about town; and I am sure that you and jeffmoskin must have some "prior" memories as well of our "pre-superpower" days, when we were simply a land with the opportunity for liberty and justice for all.
*


I also remember when we Americans were not...

HYPHENATED.

No Mexican-American, Italian-Americans, no African-Americans;

Just plain AMERICANS.

The most recent administrations, starting with Ray-gun, encouraged this hyphenation process during the 80s and 90s, perhaps because doing so emphasises the differences that could divide us rather than the similarities and values which would otherwise unite us. repubs have used a strategy of divide and conquer very effectively. Clinton (Repub-lite IMHO) did it too.

Also, bigger troughs always attract more snouts. Special funds were always set aside for the different hyphenated groups. They began to see themselves more as special interest groups than as American citizens.

Catering to special interest groups. What a concept. I'll bet they eventually became party contributors.

I don't like it. Never did.

There really is an American Creed; it was written by William Tyler Page, and it goes like this:

"I believe in the United States of America as a government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed, a democracy in a republic, a sovereign Nation of many sovereign States; a perfect union, one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.

"I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it, to support its Constitution, to obey its laws to respect its flag, and to defend it against all enemies."

–Written 1917, accepted by the United States House of Representatives on April 3, 1918.

Sounds good to me. No hyphens, either.
Abu Beacon
[quote=Livyjr,Feb 15 2005, 01:00 PM]

"Former Aide Blasts Bush's Faith-Based Plan"

This post, frankly is addressed to Livyjr and jeff moskin.

Please excuse this one time use of this thread as a ' chat room '

I have been using the procedure to find both of your postings by using the - members - procedure. This sure does save time, although I do read other threads from time to time.

I started a new thread today - I debated with myself about using this thread for the postings but, frankly, I hope to have the new thread on going for a while and had no desire to monopolize what I will always consider the Livyjr files.

I thoroughly enjoy your postings jeffmoskin. I will respond to them from time to time. You sure have a lot to meditate on. You also save my brain a lot of work trying to figure out the true intent of the articles you quote.

Thank you very much for both of the above.

My new thread is titled " George Bush vs. The Holy Scriptures.

I would be honored if you would occasionally critique these. Have no fear. I am not looking for any ' attaboys '. I just feel very strongly about the content of this thread and want to make it as effective as possible. So let your true input be known.

Thank you.

A.B.
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Feb 15 2005, 01:14 PM)
George Bush vs. The Holy Scriptures
*

I love it. Good for you, A.B.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Feb 15 2005, 02:14 PM)
This post, frankly is addressed to Livyjr and jeff moskin.

Please excuse this one time use of this thread as a ' chat room '

I have been using the procedure to find both of your postings by using the - members - procedure.

This sure does save time, although I do read other threads from time to time.

I started a new thread today - I debated with myself about using this thread for the postings but, frankly, I hope to have the new thread on going for a while and had no desire to monopolize what I will always consider the Livyjr files.

Thank you.

A.B.

A.B., I am for it, too!

Frankly, I think there should be many threads in here, hosted by individuals such as yourself, and you should feel very free, A.B., to advertise your new thread(s) in here, elsewise, I might not ever know, as I don't get out of here that much, and I would like an opportunity to comment over in the section on religion.

In the John Kerry forum, we had quite a discussion on the issue of religion, and George W. Bush, and that thread attracted a wide readership, plus a lot of positive collaboration by different forum members.

It was quite a positive experience for me, anyway, as well as being mentally stimulating.

And I appreciate your thoughts on "Life in OUR America", as well, A.B.

This thread is this thread!

It has its own character, and it serves its own purposes in here, and that is that!

There is room in here for many more threads such as this, on a host of other topics, such as your thread is going to be, and if this thread acts as a stimulus, or catalyst of some type in that process of threads proliferating in here, then I could not be happier.

SO!

Soon, I'm going to take a walk over and visit!

Good luck, A.B., on your new venture!

Thinking keeps the mind young; so keep at it, A.B. and God speed to you, on your way home!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Feb 15 2005, 02:14 PM)
My new thread is titled "George Bush vs. The Holy Scriptures."

I would be honored if you would occasionally critique these.

Have no fear.

I am not looking for any ' attaboys '.

I just feel very strongly about the content of this thread and want to make it as effective as possible.

So let your true input be known.

Thank you.

A.B.

And how about that, folks!

A.B. is participating in the adventure; this brand-new experiment, or maybe phase of an experiment, is a better way to put it; an experiment in participative democracy set in motion by OUR forefathers in liberty when they signed the Declaration of Independence from the tyranny of England; and I wonder at how many people grasp the true significance of that action by A.B.?

And here I have to say that A.B. is sure a positive example of fortitude to me, as he is a generation older than I am, and here he is in here, using his mind, and his energy in a positive manner for the good of OUR democratic society!

Free speech!

Or maybe it is better to say unimpeded speech, or untrammeled speech; and to me, a younger American, I think that is a very good thing for all of us, when people from A.B.'s generation can come in to a forum like this, and therein, have a place in which to record their thoughts and memories for all of posterity to read and share!

SO!

To anyone stopping by here, do take a moment to go over and find A.B.'s new thread, and give it a visit.

That, after all, is how knowledge grows and spreads in a healthy society; and we should not only enjoy that access to knowledge, we should help it spread further, ourselves!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 15 2005, 05:03 PM)
SO!

To anyone stopping by here, do take a moment to go over and find A.B.'s new thread, and give it a visit.

That, after all, is how knowledge grows and spreads in a healthy society; and we should not only enjoy that access to knowledge, we should help it spread further, ourselves!

And here I am, just returning from A.B.'s new thread, which is over in "religion and politics", and I hope that thread will be around for a while!

A.B. is devoting a thread to a discussion which I think is quite relevant to each of us in OUR America these days, and that is this question of "religion", which has got us in a war right now, that is sucking OUR national treasury dry, and for what?

To prove that some god that George W. Bush worships is stronger than some other god that someone else worships?

We're going to spend a BILLION DOLLARS of OUR money EVERY WEEK to prove to some other nation that George W. Bush's god is the best god?

I don't believe that myself, so, I am not supporting this use of our tax money, for religious war, or HOLY WAR in the Middle East!

Sorry, but I'm not!

I don't think that wars being fought over religion are in the best interests of this nation, and so, I am not going to pretend otherwise, and I do not have to, as my liberty as a free American citizen allows me to find and then worship "god" in my own way, so long as the "worship" is physically harmful to no other person!

And when a president of the United States begins to act in an apparently aberrent manner that is harmful to OUR own personal liberty to find god, OR NOT, in our own fashion, then that president is "off the reservation", and he, or she, would be just plain wrong, as George W. Bush will be if he persists in trying to limit our liberty in the manner of how we as individuals choose to worship "god", here, in OUR America.

I am almost sixty years old, now, and never have I felt so threatened over this issue of religion as I do right now, under this Bush Co. crowd, and this "presidential" emphasis on faith, and his "faith-based" government, which feels very exclusive to me, in violation of George W. Bush's own oath as United States president to uphold all of the precepts of the United States Constitution, including the "freedom of worship" clause!

And so, once again, I must commend A.B. for starting this new thread of his, and once again, I would encourage all who stop in here to go over there and give him a visit!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 14 2005, 04:40 PM)
And what a joke this all is!

While this Democratic Senator is taking a tally of how the Bush Co.'s have mismanaged and allegedly misspent millions already in Iraq, the head Bush Co. himself is coming in and asking for BILLIONS MORE!

And in the meantime, we, of course, are to tighten up OUR belts, because not only do we have to pay for this multi-million dollar mismangement, we also have to go without, ourselves, so that the Bush Co. will have more money, OF OURS, to mismanage, and misspend!

How droll!

How very droll, indeed!

White House - AP

"Bush Wants $82B More for Iraq, Afghan Costs"

By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Monday urged Congress to approve quickly his request for $82 billion to cover the costs of military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and a myriad of other internationally related expenses, such as training Iraqi security forces, aiding tsunami victims and helping military forces in other nations.

"The majority of this request will ensure that our troops continue to get what they need to protect themselves and complete their mission,'" Bush said in a statement released before the White House officially sent the supplemental budget request to Capitol Hill.

"It also provides for the continued pursuit of al-Qaida and other terrorist elements in Afghanistan and elsewhere," the president said.

"I urge the Congress to move quickly so our troops and diplomats have the tools they need to succeed."

And this is an up-date on the supplemental "war budget" that George W. Bush is about to submit to OUR Congress so that he can keep his HOLY WAR going to some as-of-yet undefined conclusion that he euphemistically calls OUR troop's "mission", whatever in the end that might actually be, beyond dying for the continued glory of Mr. George W. Bush, and his pack of NEW CONS who are the advocates of this present-day HOLY WAR that we are embroiled in over in Iraq, right now as I write these words in here!

And please take special note of the last sentence in this following article; it is quite revealing, indeed:

Top Stories - Chicago Tribune

"War budget request loaded with extras"

Tue Feb 15, 9:40 AM ET

By Stephen J. Hedges Washington Bureau

The Bush administration asked Congress on Monday to provide $82 billion to cover unbudgeted costs in the global war on terrorism, but the request includes funds for a long-planned military reorganization and for activities such as tsunami aid that are seemingly unrelated to terrorism.

The president's supplemental request seeks $42.5 billion that would pay for military activities in Iraq and Afghanistan through September, the end of the 2005 federal fiscal year, as well as $12 billion more to refurbish and replace worn-out vehicles, weapons and equipment used in those operations.

The request includes $3 billion that is unrelated to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and $19 billion more that is not directly related to U.S. military costs there.

"These funds will support U.S. armed forces and coalition partners as we advance democracy, fight the insurgency, and train and equip Iraqi security forces so that they can defend their sovereignty and freedom," President Bush said in a letter to House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.).

Bush urged Congress "not to attach to this proposal items that are not directly related to these emergencies abroad."

But the White House attached its extra spending request to a measure that is labeled "Funding for the War on Terror."

Among the extras is $5.3 billion to pay for a restructuring of the Army and, to a lesser degree, the Marine Corps.

The administration chose to not include those items in the $419.3 billion defense budget for 2006 that Bush submitted to Congress last week.

That omission has raised bipartisan concerns among members of Congress, who criticized the president for using the supplemental request to further bolster an already escalating defense budget, and to fund programs that are unrelated to military operations.

Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.), ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, told military leaders last week that the administration's annual defense budget concealed the true cost of its military spending.

"It hides the true size of the overall budget deficit because it does not include the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan," Levin said of the defense budget.

"It simply fails to include funding to pay for the incremental costs of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan."

Others supported the White House request, including Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-Calif.), chairman of the House Appropriations Committee.

On Monday, he told The Associated Press that he would push the bill "quickly and cleanly through the Congress."

Monday's supplemental request, if approved, would fund $7.4 billion to train Iraqi and Afghan security forces and $2 billion for Afghanistan reconstruction costs, as well as provide $2 billion to countries that have supported the U.S. efforts.

The White House also asked for $658 million to build a new embassy in Iraq and $717 million for staff and related security operations.

It also asks Congress to fund international aid and relief efforts that have nothing to do with Iraq and Afghanistan, including:

- $950 million for the victims of the Dec. 26 Southeast Asian tsunami;

- $342.4 million for those suffering in the Darfur region of Sudan; and

- $780 million for the U.S. share of peacekeeping efforts in Haiti, Ivory Coast, Burundi and Sudan.

Congress previously has approved more than $192 billion in supplemental spending for U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

If the new request is approved, the cost of the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and other operations would jump to nearly $275 billion, far beyond the initial $200 billion estimate by Lawrence Lindsey, a former economic policy adviser to Bush.

Currently there are about 152,000 American troops in Iraq, a number that is expected to drop by about 15,000 next month.

U.S. commanders have not indicated when most of the U.S. forces might start returning home from the country, a consideration that is largely dependent on the ability of U.S.-trained Iraqi forces to take over security operations.

Pentagon planners have prepared for military operations in Iraq through 2010.

The latest supplemental request, according to White House spokesman Scott McClellan, "provides funding to make sure we are doing everything we can to train and equip Iraqi and Afghan forces in those areas."

"We want to make sure that Iraqi forces are going to be in position to ultimately provide for their own security so that our troops will be able to return home with honor."

The Army has borne the brunt of the mission in Iraq, and the Pentagon contends that the Army's restructuring costs are an important part of its operations there.

The Army is changing its organization to reduce its reliance on large divisions of up to 20,000 soldiers and instead aims to form 33 to 43 brigades of about 5,000 soldiers each.

The new brigades will contain their own armor, helicopters, intelligence and other units that currently are drawn from within the larger divisions.

The hope is that they will be more self-sufficient and modular so they could be sent to foreign lands without the support of a larger force.

In the administration's 2006 Defense Department budget, the Army's overall budget actually drops by $300 million to $100 billion.

But Pentagon officials, including Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, have pointed to the unbudgeted Iraq-Afghanistan spending to show that Army spending is actually increasing.

Several military analysts have noted that more outside spending is creeping into the supplemental military requests, and more still may be added by Congress.

"It seems as though they're using the supplemental as a standard part of the budgeting process and it is becoming institutionalized," said Loren Thompson, who directs the Lexington Institute, a Washington-area think tank.

"It's partly because the administration isn't eager to admit that it's spending half a trillion a year on defense."

"But it's also because it has discovered that it will meet no resistance on Capitol Hill if it's spending that is characterized as being for the troops."
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 14 2005, 04:18 PM)
And speaking of those inept, knee-jerkers down there in Washington. D.C.  who have given us one very expensive and largely botched-up HOLY WAR in the Middle East, here is another view of what they are now going to be jerking their knees to, over there in Iraq in the next weeks and months, and likely years, for us, anyway:

Top Stories - The Christian Science Monitor
 
"Shiite Islamists to shape new Iraq"

Mon Feb 14, 9:33 AM ET 

The election gave a Shiite Islamist slate more than 47 percent, a Kurdish alliance 25 percent, and Allawi's list 14 percent.

By Dan Murphy, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

BAGHDAD - A slate packed with Shiite politicians who want Islam to govern much of Iraqi life rolled to victory in the country's first free election in 50 years.

Its members will take almost half the seats in a 275-member national assembly that will write a new constitution.

The results of the Jan. 30 vote, released Sunday, confirm a profound political shift, with Iraq's majority Shiite Arabs - treated as second-class citizens under Saddam Hussein - finally translating their numerical weight into political power.

But where Iraq's transformation will lead remains uncertain.

In addition to confirming the Shiite Arab dominance, the results showed abysmal turnout among the Sunni Arab minority who profited under Mr. Hussein and have driven the war against the US-led coalition and the interim government.

That leaves a Shiite-led government backed by the US military squaring off against a Sunni Arab-led insurgency that could cause Iraq's burgeoning civil strife to deepen.

And here is some further "development" on this important story as well, from the perspective of the Kurds:

Top Stories - The Christian Science Monitor

"Kurds emerge as power brokers"

Tue Feb 15,10:44 AM ET

At Iraq's polls, once persecuted Kurds won prominence in new assembly.

By Dan Murphy

BAGHDAD - There was no part of Iraq more joyous than Kurdistan on Sunday.

Election results confirmed the Kurds as the second most powerful, and probably most cohesive, faction in the new assembly that will shape Iraq's future.

The rise of the Kurds, who suffered under Saddam Hussein, not only makes them important power brokers in the new Iraq but is likely to add to the strains on Iraqi unity as the country's experiment in democracy rolls forward.

In the short term, their political position could secure the presidency for Jalal Talabani, leader of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), and should provide a secular counterbalance to the Shiite groups that will form the largest bloc in parliament.

But as Iraq's political debate evolves, particularly over the writing of the constitution, there are also many stumbling blocks.

Senior Kurdish leaders say they're committed to remaining part of Iraq.

"Independence is impractical,'' Mr. Talabani, leader of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, who fought for independence for much of the last 20 years, told Reuters on Sunday.

But the independence yearnings of his followers, and the demands they are making for expanded territory and more of Iraq's oil revenues, could bring them into conflict with the demands of the country's now dominant Arab Shiites and minority Sunni Arabs, particularly over the flashpoint city of Kirkuk.

That was brought home by the celebrations in the cities of autonomous Kurdistan and in the oil-rich city of Kirkuk on Sunday, where Kurds poured into the streets and waved not Iraq's flag but their own, a symbol of an 80-year struggle for independence.

The Kurdish rise also emphasizes the weak position of Iraq's Sunni Arab minority, who ruled the country since its creation in the 1920s, and who mostly boycotted the election.

Sunni Arab fighters have been at the heart of Iraq's raging war, and their exclusion from government means it's unlikely they'll stop fighting any time soon.

"I think most Sunnis are extremely frustrated and I think there's a lot of support among them for the insurgency,'' says Kenneth Katzman, an expert on Iraq and Iran for the Congressional Research Service in Washington.

"Not only are they no longer No. 1 in Iraq, they're not even No. 2."

Mr. Katzman says the Kurdish rise, given their overt independence sentiments and desire to incorporate Kirkuk into their autonomous region, could end up opening another front in Iraq's war.

"I think it's very problematic,'' he says, adding that a Kurdish push for Kirkuk is probably "just a matter of time."

"And that could draw in other communities and could be a spark that sets this whole thing off."

The Kurdish position could also build an essential weakness into Iraq's interim arrangements, since it establishes a group that has traditionally been hostile to the Iraqi state as major player in shaping that state's new order.

The Kurds' 75 seats in the 275-member national assembly leaves them second only to the United Iraqi Alliance (UIA), a coalition of mostly Islamist Shiite parties that won 140 seats.

Since rules for forming a government require a two-thirds majority, this points to a natural alliance between the Kurds and the Shiites.

The two groups' views differ vastly on everything from Islam (the Shiites hope it will form the principal basis for Iraq's laws while the Kurds want a secular state), to the status of Kirkuk (Shiites say giving up the city is unacceptable, while the Kurds say they want it to be the capital of their homeland).

But some Shiite and Kurdish politicians expect a short-term alliance to be possible.

Hamid al-Bayati, a top political adviser for the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), one of the two main Shiite parties in the UIA, says a federal system that allows broad control over local laws could be the answer.

He says that any three provinces that want to form a federation could be allowed to do so, and that in practice, Shiite areas in the south that want sharia (Islamic law) would be allowed to do so while the Kurds, who currently control three provinces, would be free to hew to a more secular line.

"Some people are worried about federalism, but we think this will unite the country and not divide it."

But Kirkuk, he says, is not up for discussion.

The Kurds are a sprawling and diverse ethnic group with communities in northern Iran, southern Turkey, and Syria, and are mostly defined by similarities in their languages.

Kurds in all places have periodically fought central power, most frequently in Iraq and Turkey.

Iraq's Kurds were hammered by Mr. Hussein's army in the 1980s and 1990s for their independence sentiments, with villages destroyed and poison gas used against the population.

That has left them with an abiding distrust of the Iraqi state and with two strong militia groups of their own that have gained in influence since the fall of Hussein.

"Look at the election - there wasn't a single Kurdish poster to be found in Baghdad,'' says Ghassan Attiya, a political scientist and secular politician.

"The Kurds want nothing to do with Arabs."

One area in which the Kurds and the Shiites do have similar backgrounds is relations with Iran.

This is something that could complicate the US involvement here as time goes on.

"This is a big issue."

"We know that many of the parties in the new government are supported by the Iranians,'' says Iyad al-Sammarai, spokesman for the Iraqi Islamic Party, a religious Sunni Arab group that boycotted the election.

Both SCIRI and the Dawa Party - the other major religious Shiite party - were sponsored by Iran in the 1980s and 1990s and thousands of the groups followers came home from exile there after the fall of Hussein.

"For SCIRI the ties are very deep."

"They won't necessarily take orders from Iran, but the relationship can be meaningful in many ways,'' says Katzman.

"The new government may stand up for Iran in international bodies when it takes heat on nuclear issues and other matters."
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 15 2005, 06:30 PM)
And this is an up-date on the supplemental "war budget" that George W. Bush is about to submit to OUR Congress so that he can keep his HOLY WAR going to some as-of-yet undefined conclusion that he euphemistically calls OUR troop's "mission", whatever in the end that might actually be, beyond dying for the continued glory of Mr. George W. Bush, and his pack of NEW CONS who are the advocates of this present-day HOLY WAR that we are embroiled in over in Iraq, right now as I write these words in here!

And please take special note of the last sentence in this following article; it is quite revealing, indeed:
 
Top Stories - Chicago Tribune

"War budget request loaded with extras"

Tue Feb 15, 9:40 AM ET   

By Stephen J. Hedges Washington Bureau

The Bush administration asked Congress on Monday to provide $82 billion to cover unbudgeted costs in the global war on terrorism, but the request includes funds for a long-planned military reorganization and for activities such as tsunami aid that are seemingly unrelated to terrorism.

Several military analysts have noted that more outside spending is creeping into the supplemental military requests, and more still may be added by Congress.

"It seems as though they're using the supplemental as a standard part of the budgeting process and it is becoming institutionalized," said Loren Thompson, who directs the Lexington Institute, a Washington-area think tank.

"It's partly because the administration isn't eager to admit that it's spending half a trillion a year on defense."

"But it's also because it has discovered that it will meet no resistance on Capitol Hill if it's spending that is characterized as being for the troops."

And while George W. Bush is emptying OUR national tresury to pay for HIS HOLY WAR, what exactly are we getting for OUR money?

And how about more ineptness from this Bush Co. crowd?

Let's look and see:

Top Stories - washingtonpost.com

"Top Iraq Rebels Elude Intensified U.S. Raids"

Tue Feb 15, 9:08 AM ET

By Bradley Graham, Washington Post Staff Writer

BAGHDAD, Feb. 14 -- Intensified military raids in Iraq over the past few months have significantly battered the ranks of mid-level insurgents but have scored few gains against the 30 or so most wanted rebels, according to senior U.S. military officers here.

As much as a third of this group is thought to move in and out of Iraq with some frequency, the officers said.

Many have eluded U.S. and Iraqi forces by a combination of moving constantly, avoiding use of telephones and receiving protection from family or tribal connections.

"Are we having success rolling up some of the top-tier leaders?"

"Not at this time," said Brig. Gen. John DeFreitas, the highest-ranking Army intelligence officer in Iraq.

"But we're successfully working the second- and third-tier leaders to put pressure on the top tier."

After a lull in the days after the Jan. 30 elections, insurgents have resumed bombings, suicide attacks and assassinations, an increasing share of them directed against Iraqi civilians and security forces.

There are now an average of about 60 attacks each day, close to the rate before the elections, according to U.S. military tallies, and most remain concentrated in Sunni Muslim-populated provinces of central and northwestern Iraq.

U.S. officers classify nearly half of the insurgency's leaders as "former regime members" -- people who were operatives of the ruling Baath Party, aides to deposed president Saddam Hussein or officers in his military and security services.

Another eight are described as associates of Abu Musab Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born insurgent leader.

Most of the rest are characterized as foreign terrorists.

Intelligence analysts continue to view the insurgency as heavily fragmented and largely the work of small guerrilla cells that lack a central command.

But the men on the military's wanted list are suspected of making important contributions in money or tactical coordination.

To better manage military and civilian intelligence efforts aimed at the insurgency's upper ranks, U.S. authorities established a special task force late last year.

The Iraqi government issued arrest warrants for 29 figures on the most-wanted list last month to enable foreign governments to seize any who surface abroad.

More recently, Lt. Gen. John Vines, commander of the 18th Airborne Corps who took over last week as the senior U.S. operational commander in Iraq, has ordered a more focused approach to tracking high-priority insurgents.

He calls it the "unblinking eye."

Predator drones, manned reconnaissance aircraft and agents on the ground are massed against a particular target to ensure round-the-clock surveillance.

Previously, commanders typically had use of these for only limited periods of time.

"Rather than spreading those assets over an entire battlefield and getting only partial views, it's much more useful to mass them on a particular target," said Col. Rich Ellis, the senior military intelligence officer for the 18th Airborne Corps.

In a world of finite assets, this approach will require commanders to set more specific target priorities and gamble on pursuing them while leaving others for later.

But military leaders here appear eager to try new methods, acknowledging that past efforts have fallen short.

In the U.S. view, the insurgency remains driven largely by Hussein loyalists bent on restoring themselves to power and preserving the dominance of the Sunni minority that existed in the Hussein years.

These people are described as operating at times in loose associations with Zarqawi's network and with other underground Islamic groups that have been blamed for some of the more spectacular suicide bombings.

U.S. claims that insurgent operations below the top level have been badly disrupted stem from stepped-up pressure that started last summer with an assault in Najaf against the Mahdi Army militia of a radical Shiite cleric, Moqtada Sadr.

That was followed by offensives against insurgents in Samarra, Fallujah, Mosul, northern Babil province and elsewhere.

The operations killed several thousand suspected insurgents and swelled the number of detainees to more than 8,000, according to U.S. figures.

U.S. and Iraqi forces seized enormous amounts of weapons as well as documents, computer files and other records said to contain intelligence leads.

U.S. commanders said that one of the biggest signs that these offensives worked was the insurgents' inability to disrupt the Jan. 30 elections.

Still, several senior officers here with access to intelligence reports said the long-term damage done to the insurgency remains difficult to gauge.

They said that the elections, which drew 58 percent of 14.6 million eligible voters, have offered a clear political alternative to the insurgents' rejection of a democratic model and have fortified resistance to violent efforts at intimidation.

Maj. Gen. Peter W. Chiarelli, commander of the 1st Cavalry Division, which patrols Baghdad, reported a surge in tips from Iraqis about local insurgent activity.

"My unblinking eye is 7 million people in Baghdad," Chiarelli said.

"That's why we keep talking about our tips line that people can call."

At the same time, officers said, the strong showings by Shiite and Kurdish parties in the voting could breathe new life into the insurgency by making Sunnis feel further excluded from power.

U.S. commanders worry that insurgents, in an attempt to foment sectarian strife, will intensify attacks on Shiite targets.

Under the circumstances, military leaders here say, political compromise and power-sharing that emerge in coming months are likely to have as much to do with shaping the security environment as in shaping a new government and constitution.

"The political outreach will have more impact on the insurgency than our military operations," one U.S. general said.

Also key, according to U.S. commanders, will be the level of cooperation from Iraq's neighbor, Syria.

Iraqi Baath Party loyalists are said to be using Syria as a base for financing and supplying the insurgents.

So the Bush administration has sought Syrian help to stop the movement of fighters and equipment across the border into Iraq and crack down on insurgent leaders in Syria.

While Syria has taken some action on the border, it has not been as aggressive against Iraqi operatives inside the country, several U.S. officers said.

Iraq authorities recently stirred speculation of a major breakthrough in the hunt for top insurgents by reporting instances in which they claimed that Zarqawi was nearly caught.

A senior U.S. commander here in a position to know, however, said he was unaware of any such case.

Having been burned in the past by grossly underestimating the size of the insurgency, military intelligence experts here now shy away from providing new estimates, at least in public.

In private they report that they are looking hard at possible new methods for assessing the size and capabilities of the armed opposition.

Ultimately, given the cultural barriers involved, the best prospects for penetrating the insurgency may come not from greater U.S. efforts but from Iraqi efforts, U.S. officers said.

As part of a renewed U.S. effort this year to beef up Iraq's security forces, a U.S. advisory team will be assigned full time to Iraq's intelligence service, and intelligence assistance teams will operate in the field with Iraqi military units, officers said.

The number of counterinsurgency raids also will rise, Vines predicted.

"But they will be by Iraqi soldiers and police," he said.

end quotes

Doesn't this sound so much like Viet Nam, that you would think that they were using that same, tired-out old playbook for press conferences on that misbegotten war for their press conferences on this Bush Co. HOLY WAR?
rosstex
[FONT=Times][SIZE=1]
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 15 2005, 06:41 PM)
And here is some further "development" on this important story as well, from the perspective of the Kurds:

Top Stories - The Christian Science Monitor

"Kurds emerge as power brokers"

Tue Feb 15,10:44 AM ET 

At Iraq's polls, once persecuted Kurds won prominence in new assembly.

By Dan Murphy

BAGHDAD - There was no part of Iraq more joyous than Kurdistan on Sunday.

Election results confirmed the Kurds as the second most powerful, and probably most cohesive, faction in the new assembly that will shape Iraq's future.

The rise of the Kurds, who suffered under Saddam Hussein, not only makes them important power brokers in the new Iraq but is likely to add to the strains on Iraqi unity as the country's experiment in democracy rolls forward.

In the short term, their political position could secure the presidency for Jalal Talabani, leader of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), and should provide a secular counterbalance to the Shiite groups that will form the largest bloc in parliament.

But as Iraq's political debate evolves, particularly over the writing of the constitution, there are also many stumbling blocks.

Senior Kurdish leaders say they're committed to remaining part of Iraq.

"Independence is impractical,'' Mr. Talabani, leader of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, who fought for independence for much of the last 20 years, told Reuters on Sunday.

But the independence yearnings of his followers, and the demands they are making for expanded territory and more of Iraq's oil revenues, could bring them into conflict with the demands of the country's now dominant Arab Shiites and minority Sunni Arabs, particularly over the flashpoint city of Kirkuk.

That was brought home by the celebrations in the cities of autonomous Kurdistan and in the oil-rich city of Kirkuk on Sunday, where Kurds poured into the streets and waved not Iraq's flag but their own, a symbol of an 80-year struggle for independence.

The Kurdish rise also emphasizes the weak position of Iraq's Sunni Arab minority, who ruled the country since its creation in the 1920s, and who mostly boycotted the election.

Sunni Arab fighters have been at the heart of Iraq's raging war, and their exclusion from government means it's unlikely they'll stop fighting any time soon.

"I think most Sunnis are extremely frustrated and I think there's a lot of support among them for the insurgency,'' says Kenneth Katzman, an expert on Iraq and Iran for the Congressional Research Service in Washington.

"Not only are they no longer No. 1 in Iraq, they're not even No. 2."

Mr. Katzman says the Kurdish rise, given their overt independence sentiments and desire to incorporate Kirkuk into their autonomous region, could end up opening another front in Iraq's war.

"I think it's very problematic,'' he says, adding that a Kurdish push for Kirkuk is probably "just a matter of time."

"And that could draw in other communities and could be a spark that sets this whole thing off."

The Kurdish position could also build an essential weakness into Iraq's interim arrangements, since it establishes a group that has traditionally been hostile to the Iraqi state as major player in shaping that state's new order.

The Kurds' 75 seats in the 275-member national assembly leaves them second only to the United Iraqi Alliance (UIA), a coalition of mostly Islamist Shiite parties that won 140 seats.

Since rules for forming a government require a two-thirds majority, this points to a natural alliance between the Kurds and the Shiites.

The two groups' views differ vastly on everything from Islam (the Shiites hope it will form the principal basis for Iraq's laws while the Kurds want a secular state), to the status of Kirkuk (Shiites say giving up the city is unacceptable, while the Kurds say they want it to be the capital of their homeland).

But some Shiite and Kurdish politicians expect a short-term alliance to be possible.

Hamid al-Bayati, a top political adviser for the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), one of the two main Shiite parties in the UIA, says a federal system that allows broad control over local laws could be the answer.

He says that any three provinces that want to form a federation could be allowed to do so, and that in practice, Shiite areas in the south that want sharia (Islamic law) would be allowed to do so while the Kurds, who currently control three provinces, would be free to hew to a more secular line.

"Some people are worried about federalism, but we think this will unite the country and not divide it."

But Kirkuk, he says, is not up for discussion.

The Kurds are a sprawling and diverse ethnic group with communities in northern Iran, southern Turkey, and Syria, and are mostly defined by similarities in their languages.

Kurds in all places have periodically fought central power, most frequently in Iraq and Turkey.

Iraq's Kurds were hammered by Mr. Hussein's army in the 1980s and 1990s for their independence sentiments, with villages destroyed and poison gas used against the population.

That has left them with an abiding distrust of the Iraqi state and with two strong militia groups of their own that have gained in influence since the fall of Hussein.

"Look at the election - there wasn't a single Kurdish poster to be found in Baghdad,'' says Ghassan Attiya, a political scientist and secular politician.

"The Kurds want nothing to do with Arabs."

One area in which the Kurds and the Shiites do have similar backgrounds is relations with Iran.

This is something that could complicate the US involvement here as time goes on.

"This is a big issue."

"We know that many of the parties in the new government are supported by the Iranians,'' says Iyad al-Sammarai, spokesman for the Iraqi Islamic Party, a religious Sunni Arab group that boycotted the election.

Both SCIRI and the Dawa Party - the other major religious Shiite party - were sponsored by Iran in the 1980s and 1990s and thousands of the groups followers came home from exile there after the fall of Hussein.

"For SCIRI the ties are very deep."

"They won't necessarily take orders from Iran, but the relationship can be meaningful in many ways,'' says Katzman.

"The new government may stand up for Iran in international bodies when it takes heat on nuclear issues and other matters."
*
rosstex
It would seem that we will have a problem on the Iraq/Turkey border as the Kurds decide to have their own country developing.
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(rosstex @ Feb 16 2005, 12:22 AM)
It would seem that we will have a problem on the Iraq/Turkey border as the Kurds decide to have their own country developing.
*

Turkey will never allow it. "Kurdistan" was promised by the Brits at the end of WW I, but when the maps were redrawn, somehow it got left out, mainly because the Brits owed the Hashemite family big time.

The result was that they gave them Iraq and TransJordan, leaving nothing for the Kurds.

My guess is that the Kurds will be happy to keep autonomy in northern Iraq, a very attainable goal. And they have a major oil well there.

The Shi'is have oil in Mosul.

The Sunnis have nothing. That is why theyy sat out the elections; that is why they will not go quietly after living high on the hog fot 80 years.

They are not willing to be the burger flippers in the "New Iraq."
Livyjr
QUOTE(rosstex @ Feb 16 2005, 01:22 AM)
It would seem that we will have a problem on the Iraq/Turkey border as the Kurds decide to have their own country developing.

And that is going to be an interesting thing to watch develop, indeed!

I believe I tend to agree with you that the Kurds would like to unite their own country, but as jeffmoskin points out, the Turks will be very much against that, which will then make life quite interesting for the Bush Co.'s, or whoever else might be in there by the time that effort becomes more overt, if in fact it is going to.

So, that IS one of the issues that I intend to monitor in here, for the reasons that you state - i.e., the problems that will arise, and what neighboring nations will try and do to squelch that move.

And jeffmoskin's point about them, the Kurds, remaining in Iraq, but becoming as autonomous as possible, especially if Iraq forms a federal government, might be an attractive alternative to the Kurds seeking complete and total independence, so, we shall wait and see!

But I myself am not accepting any arguments from Washington, D.C. that any kind of peace over there in the Middle East is waiting right around the corner, elections in Iraq, notwithstanding.

I think something has been started over there now, much more than anything has been ended, and it just might prove quite interesting for all of us here in OUR America, especially if Bush Co. ends up having solidified opposition to America in that part of the world by his actions in the Middle East to date, including the abu Ghraib business, which is now under the rug, but far from over, as well, I think, in terms of its overall negative impact to the image of what America is viewed as by the rest of the candid world, who, like us, are watching and waiting to see what will happen next in this world of OURS, thanks to the Bush Co.'s.

SO!

Thank you for the post, and welcome!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 16 2005, 04:22 PM)
But I myself am not accepting any arguments from Washington, D.C. that any kind of peace over there in the Middle East is waiting right around the corner, elections in Iraq, notwithstanding.

I think something has been started over there now, much more than anything has been ended, and it just might prove quite interesting for all of us here in OUR America, especially if Bush Co. ends up having solidified opposition to America in that part of the world by his actions in the Middle East to date, including the abu Ghraib business, which is now under the rug, but far from over, as well, I think, in terms of its overall negative impact to the image of what America is viewed as by the rest of the candid world, who, like us, are watching and waiting to see what will happen next in this world of OURS, thanks to the Bush Co.'s. 

SO!

Thank you for the post, and welcome!

And speaking of things having been "set loose" over there in the Middle East, thanks to the image of OUR America that the Bush Co.'s are now projecting out there in the world, we have this following, which makes life in OUR America these days just a touch more interesting:

Top Stories - AP

"Iran, Syria to Form 'United Front'"

2 hours, 45 minutes ago

TEHRAN, Iran - Iran and Syria, who both are facing pressure from the United States, said Wednesday they will form a "united front" to confront possible threats against them, state-run television reported.

"In view of the special conditions faced by Syria, Iran will transfer its experience, especially concerning sanctions, to Syria," Mohammad Reza Aref, Iran's first vice president, was quoted as saying after meeting Syrian Prime Minister Mohammad Naji Otari.

"At this sensitive point, the two countries require a united front due to numerous challenges."

Otari concurred, saying, "The challenges we face in Syria and Iran require us to be in one front to confront all the challenges imposed (on us) by others."

The report did not specifically mention the challenges, but both countries are under U.S. economic sanctions and the targets of intense American pressure.

Iran, which President Bush had labeled an "axis of evil" with North Korea and prewar Iraq, was named an "outpost of tyranny" last month by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

The United States has accused Iran of seeking to produce nuclear weapons, while relations with Syria have deteriorated, especially since Monday's assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.

Many Lebanese blamed Monday's car bombing in Beirut on Syria, but the Syrian government has denied responsibility.

Washington is recalling its ambassador from Syria in apparent response to Hariri's killing.

Washington also accuses Syria of aiding anti-Israeli militants and supporting insurgents in Iraq.

Tehran and Damascus have been strategic allies for years.

Syria was the only Arab country that continued its warm relations with Iran during the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 16 2005, 04:55 PM)
And speaking of things having been "set loose" over there in the Middle East, thanks to the image of OUR America that the Bush Co.'s are now projecting out there in the world, we have this following, which makes life in OUR America these days just a touch more interesting:

Top Stories - AP

"Iran, Syria to Form 'United Front'"

TEHRAN, Iran - Iran and Syria, who both are facing pressure from the United States, said Wednesday they will form a "united front" to confront possible threats against them, state-run television reported.

"In view of the special conditions faced by Syria, Iran will transfer its experience, especially concerning sanctions, to Syria," Mohammad Reza Aref, Iran's first vice president, was quoted as saying after meeting Syrian Prime Minister Mohammad Naji Otari.

"At this sensitive point, the two countries require a united front due to numerous challenges."

Otari concurred, saying, "The challenges we face in Syria and Iran require us to be in one front to confront all the challenges imposed (on us) by others."

The report did not specifically mention the challenges, but both countries are under U.S. economic sanctions and the targets of intense American pressure.

And here is a necessary companion story to this one directly above, as well as the continuing story of OUR involvement in this Holy War of the Bush Co's in Iraq, with its attendent emptying of OUR national treasury, for reasons which follow:

Top Stories - AP

"U.S. Spending More Per Soldier Than Ever"

2 hours, 42 minutes ago

By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - With military costs since Sept. 11, 2001, now expected to exceed $300 billion, the Pentagon is spending more per soldier to fight in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere than it did during earlier conflicts.

High technology, the costs of paying and protecting a modern soldier, and the worldwide nature of the war on terrorism are all possible reasons, experts say.

"Every facet of military expenditure has skyrocketed since the Gulf War," said Loren B. Thompson, a military expert with the Lexington Institute.

"The biggest reason why is because the military is more and more a microcosm of the broader economy."

The all-volunteer force, put in place by President Nixon in 1973 to replace the draft, has forced the military to compete with the private sector for soldiers, and offer better pay and benefits, he said.

Sending those soldiers to war costs still more.

"The bottom-line problem with the all-volunteer force is you have to convince middle-class people to risk their lives for middle-class pay, so of course the price for each soldier keeps going up," he said.

According to government figures, the war in Iraq costs about $4.3 billion a month, and the war in Afghanistan runs another $800 million.

That money goes for a variety of things, including fuel, ammunition, hazard pay for the soldiers and repair and replacement of weapons and vehicles.

On average, the government spent a similar amount monthly on the Vietnam War between 1965 and 1975, according to figures, adjusted for inflation, from the Congressional Research Service.

However, that figure is somewhat skewed, as the Vietnam War was far more costly at its height early in the war, from 1967 to 1970, than it was in the later years, when the U.S. presence was reduced.

The Bush administration similarly hopes it can reduce the U.S. troop presence in Iraq in the coming year or two, if Iraqi security forces become more able to handle the insurgency.

The United States spent $623 billion on the Vietnam conflict, according to the service, using figures adjusted for inflation.

If President Bush's new $81.9 billion emergency request is implemented, U.S. war costs since the Sept. 11 attacks will approach half that.

Still, the United States has 170,000 troops deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, but that will drop to 155,000 or fewer in the coming weeks due to a small postelection drawdown in Iraq.

During the height of the Vietnam War, more than half a million U.S. soldiers were stationed in Southeast Asia.

Experts offered several reasons why post-Sept. 11 warfare has provided much more expensive per soldier than earlier conflicts:

_The U.S. military is more professional and capable than it was 30 years ago, when a significant portion of the soldiers in Vietnam were draftees.

Now, it includes far more highly trained technicians running expensive computers and other gear.

They are better paid, better trained, better equipped than their predecessors.

"We have a much better military than we had back then."

"We spend more on some kinds of support functions than we did back then," said Steven M. Kosiak at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments.

_The military is relying much more on Guard and Reserves than it has in the past during extended conflicts.

Their pay comes from the emergency war spending measures, rather than the regular defense budget.

_The desert conditions of Iraq are wearing on vehicles at a much greater rate than expected, forcing more spending on repairs and replacements.

_Combat deaths are down compared to previous conflicts, owing to better training, better body and vehicle armor and quick access to emergency medical care, all of which are expensive investments.

The U.S. military is also using automated systems in dangerous jobs that people once performed.

_The global war on terror and the war in Iraq — lumped together by the Bush administration but not by those who opposed the Iraqi invasion — are far-flung ventures that involve protracted deployments to many countries, requiring lots of transport, logistics and communications to many places.

U.S. troops have also been sent in smaller numbers to Georgia, Djibouti and the Philippines, among others, to oppose Islamic extremist groups.

The Bush administration has been financing the wars through a series of emergency spending measures, all paid for with borrowed money.

Including reconstruction spending, those have totaled $228 billion in approved spending.

The latest emergency proposal, $81.9 billion, includes $74.9 billion for the Defense Department.

It includes some $12 billion that was requested to replace or repair worn-out and damaged equipment, including $3.3 billion for extra armor for trucks and other protective gear — underscoring a sensitivity to earlier complaints by troops.

The total request exceeds the annual defense budget of every other country in the world, according to figures supplied by the Center for Defense Information.

The organization says Russia, with the second-largest military budget, spends $65 billion a year.
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 16 2005, 03:22 PM)
...having solidified opposition to America in that part of the world by his actions in the Middle East to date, including the abu Ghraib business, which is now under the rug, but far from over, as well, I think, in terms of its overall negative impact to the image of what America is viewed as by the rest of the candid world, who, like us, are watching and waiting to see what will happen next in this world of OURS, thanks to the Bush Co.'s...\
*


Abu Ghraib, while missing from American Corporate Propaganda Media, airs 24/7 on Al Jazeera and Al Arabya.
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 16 2005, 03:55 PM)
TEHRAN, Iran - Iran and Syria, who both are facing pressure from the United States, said Wednesday they will form a "united front" to confront possible threats against them, state-run television reported.

"In view of the special conditions faced by Syria, Iran will transfer its experience, especially concerning sanctions, to Syria," Mohammad Reza Aref, Iran's first vice president, was quoted as saying after meeting Syrian Prime Minister Mohammad Naji Otari.

"At this sensitive point, the two countries require a united front due to numerous challenges."

Otari concurred, saying, "The challenges we face in Syria and Iran require us to be in one front to confront all the challenges imposed (on us) by others."

The report did not specifically mention the challenges, but both countries are under U.S. economic sanctions and the targets of intense American pressure.

Iran, which President Bush had labeled an "axis of evil" with North Korea and prewar Iraq, was named an "outpost of tyranny" last month by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

The United States has accused Iran of seeking to produce nuclear weapons, while relations with Syria have deteriorated, especially since Monday's assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.

Many Lebanese blamed Monday's car bombing in Beirut on Syria, but the Syrian government has denied responsibility.

Washington is recalling its ambassador from Syria in apparent response to Hariri's killing.

Washington also accuses Syria of aiding anti-Israeli militants and supporting insurgents in Iraq.

Tehran and Damascus have been strategic allies for years.

Syria was the only Arab country that continued its warm relations with Iran during the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war.
*

Old middle eastern saying, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

See, George W Bush really IS a uniter, not a divider. He is uniting Syria and Iran...

AGAINST US.
Abu Beacon
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Feb 16 2005, 06:31 PM)
Abu Ghraib, while missing from American Corporate Propaganda Media, airs 24/7 on Al Jazeera and Al Arabya.

Old middle eastern saying, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

See, George W Bush really IS a uniter, not a divider. He is uniting Syria and Iran...

AGAINST US.
*


Jeff Moskin -----

Yoi have a gift in defining in just a few words what the point of the discussion is all about. It makes me realize just how long winded I am most of the time.

Also, I get a lot of chuckles in reading your comments.

And that's a good thing!

A.B.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 16 2005, 05:22 PM)
And here is a necessary companion story to this one directly above, as well as the continuing story of OUR involvement in this Holy War of the Bush Co's in Iraq, with its attendent emptying of OUR national treasury, for reasons which follow:

Top Stories - AP

"U.S. Spending More Per Soldier Than Ever"

By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - With military costs since Sept. 11, 2001, now expected to exceed $300 billion, the Pentagon is spending more per soldier to fight in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere than it did during earlier conflicts.

High technology, the costs of paying and protecting a modern soldier, and the worldwide nature of the war on terrorism are all possible reasons, experts say.

"Every facet of military expenditure has skyrocketed since the Gulf War," said Loren B. Thompson, a military expert with the Lexington Institute.

"The biggest reason why is because the military is more and more a microcosm of the broader economy."

The all-volunteer force, put in place by President Nixon in 1973 to replace the draft, has forced the military to compete with the private sector for soldiers, and offer better pay and benefits, he said.

Sending those soldiers to war costs still more.

"The bottom-line problem with the all-volunteer force is you have to convince middle-class people to risk their lives for middle-class pay, so of course the price for each soldier keeps going up," he said.

According to government figures, the war in Iraq costs about $4.3 billion a month, and the war in Afghanistan runs another $800 million.

And while we are spending BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A MONTH on Bush Co.'s HOLY WAR, how are we really doing in the Bush Co.'s alleged "WAR on TAY-RAH"?

Or doesn't anyone in this Bush Co. regime really know?

White House - AP Cabinet & State

"Officials Warn of Future Terror Attacks"

29 minutes ago

By KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Speaking with one voice, President Bush's top intelligence and military officials said Wednesday that terrorists are regrouping for possible new strikes against the United States.

They said the best defense was for Congress to approve the president's military and anti-terror budget.

But some in Congress, including prominent Republicans, were questioning some of that spending.

Offering few specifics on terror threats, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told a House hearing that the government could reasonably predict attacks would come from terrorism, weapons of mass destruction and other means.

Meanwhile, new CIA Director Porter Goss told the Senate Intelligence Committee the Iraq war was giving terrorists experience and contacts for future attacks, and FBI Director Robert Mueller expressed worry that a sleeper operative in the U.S. may have been in place for years, awaiting orders for an attack.

"I remain very concerned about what we are not seeing," Mueller said in remarks he submitted to the senators.

Rumsfeld told the House Armed Services Committee that the proposed $419 billion defense package for 2006 would set an ambitious course to "continue prosecuting the war and to attack its ideological underpinnings."

Yet the Republican-controlled Congress may exercise its considerable authority over federal spending and reject White House requests to simply sign the checks.

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Rep. Jerry Lewis, R-Calif., the new chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, said lawmakers were questioning billions in foreign aid and State Department spending that Bush requested in an emergency bill this week.

DeLay, R-Texas, said some of Bush's foreign aid proposals "probably do not qualify" for the expedited treatment he's seeking.

The current congressional debate over how to allocate billions of dollars on initiatives aimed at spreading peace and ensuring security follows three years of massive spending in response to the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Senior administration officials appearing at a series of congressional hearings Wednesday described a Muslim extremist threat that's become more diffuse, encompassing al-Qaida and like-minded associates.

Goss said al-Qaida remains intent on circumventing U.S. security measures and attacking the United States.

"It may be only a matter of time before al-Qaida or other groups attempt to use chemical, biological, radiological or nuclear weapons," Goss said at the Senate Intelligence Committee's annual hearing on threats.

In his first testimony as CIA chief, Goss said the Iraq conflict has become a cause for extremists.

"Those jihadists who survive will leave Iraq experienced in and focused on acts of urban terrorism."

"They represent a potential pool of contacts to build transnational terrorist cells, groups and networks," Goss said.

Even as terrorism remained at the forefront, senior diplomatic and intelligence officials outlined a number of countries that pose conventional diplomatic, military and intelligence problems to the United States.

Goss said North Korea continues to "develop, produce, deploy and sell ballistic missiles of increasing range and sophistication."

He said the secretive regime could "at any time" resume flight testing of a long-range missile capable of reaching the United States with a nuclear payload.

Iran, too, is further improving its Shahab-3 long-range ballistic missile, which has a range of more than 800 miles, Goss said.

In written testimony, Vice Adm. Lowell Jacoby, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said he believes Iran will continue its support for terrorism and aid for insurgents in Iraq.

"Iran's long-term goal is to see the U.S. leave Iraq and the region," he said.

Speaking to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice blamed Syria for having undermined stability in neighboring Lebanon.

On Monday, a massive car bomb explosion in downtown Beirut killed former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.

"The Syrians (have) a special responsibility for the kind of destabilization that happened there, that this sort of thing could happen," said Rice, who also blamed Syria for contributing to the insurgency in Iraq and endangering U.S. forces.

Rice laid out a menu of spending initiatives, including $658 million for a new embassy compound in Baghdad, $1.2 billion for U.S. obligations to international organizations and $5.8 billion in assistance to U.S. partners in the war on terror.

Grim at times, the appraisals on threats to the United States indicated the second Bush term would remain fraught with warnings but often short on specifics shared with the public.

During the presidential campaign last year, the Bush-Cheney team often warned vaguely of terror threats.

Still, officials attempted to balance alarm with caution Wednesday.

Rumsfeld noted U.S. successes in building a 90-nation anti-terror coalition, putting a squeeze on terror financing and eliminating two-thirds of al-Qaida's leadership.

But "it isn't over."

"It's going to take a while," Rumsfeld said.

"It is a very serious business we're in."

end quotes

And yes, it is, there, Donald!

And when exactly did that lesson come home to you?

Yesterday?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Feb 16 2005, 05:58 PM)
Jeff Moskin -----

You have a gift in defining in just a few words what the point of the discussion is all about.

Also, I get a lot of chuckles in reading your comments.

And that's a good thing!

A.B.

EXPOSITION:

a) a setting forth of the meaning or purpose;

cool.gif a discourse, or an example of it designed to convey information or explain what is difficult to understand!

EXPOSITOR: one who expounds or explains!

jeffmoskin is an expositor, and a good one, at that, and I too, A.B., am glad that he is in here with us, making his posts in counter-point to my own, as jeffmoskin does have a knack to see into the heart of many matters in here, and with just a few words, he sure can separate wheat from chaff, and thereby get the meat of an issue right up on the table where it belongs!

And, yes, I too often get a chuckle from jeffmoskin's writings, and yes, that is a good thing, indeed!
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Feb 16 2005, 05:31 PM)
Abu Ghraib, while missing from American Corporate Propaganda Media, airs 24/7 on Al Jazeera and Al Arabya.

Old middle eastern saying, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

See, George W Bush really IS a uniter, not a divider.

He is uniting Syria and Iran...

AGAINST US.

And here IS the heart of the matter!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jan 27 2005, 04:12 PM)
And while that is going on, we have:

White House - AP

"Bush Pushes Computerized Medical Records"

By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer

CLEVELAND - President Bush returned to the state that helped seal his re-election victory to pitch his second-term health agenda, urging greater use of computerized medical records and electronic prescriptions.

He said medical record-keeping, where most prescriptions and many medical documents are still handwritten, lags that of other industries.

"Most industries in America have used information technology to make their businesses more cost effective, more efficient and more productive — and the truth of the matter is health care hasn't," Bush said.

Bush also said ways must be found to safeguard medical records to protect against "people prying into them."

end quotes

What on earth is it with this guy?

He's got a million messes all over the place already that he is not attending to, and now, he's out there looking to create even more!

Bush also said ways must be found to safeguard medical records to protect against "people prying into them."

SIMPLE, George, don't put them on computers!

I don't want my medical records on some computer system.

My medical records are kept just fine, already!

SO!

Keep your clumsy hands off them; and likely they'll stay that way!

Thank you very much!

And here I am just returning from Volume I of "Life in OUR America", where I just retrieved this story above, on the Bush Co.'s plan to computerize even more of OUR personal data, thus making it available and accessible to identity thieves, as this next chilling story shows can be, and in fact, is the case, with data about us that is presently stored on computers, and sold, or traded as a kind of "commodity", out there in the real world:

Spam, Scams & Viruses

"ChoicePoint urged to make wider disclosure - More victims surface in data theft case; suspect arrested"

By Bob Sullivan, Technology correspondent
MSNBC

Updated: 4:29 p.m. ET Feb. 16, 2005

NEW YORK - A New York state legislator is calling on database giant ChoicePoint to reveal a wider list of consumers impacted by a recent data theft at the firm involving thousands of consumers.

Atlanta-based ChoicePoint maintains and sells background files on virtually every adult American, culled from millions of public and private records.

Last week, the firm sent some 35,000 letters to California residents telling them their personal data may have been stolen by criminals who set up fake companies and downloaded information from ChoicePoint.

The incident was first revealed by MSNBC.com on Monday.

So far, only California residents have been told their information may have been stolen, but experts believe the fraud likely involved consumers around the country.

California state law requires disclosure of such data leaks, but it is the only state in the country to do so.

Similar laws have been proposed in several other states, including New York.

James Brennan (D-Brooklyn), sponsor of New York's disclosure law, says ChoicePoint should inform New York state residents if their personal information was exposed during the incident.

"California law requires that identity theft victims be given a chance to limit their losses by prompt notification."

"New York has no such law."

"I’m calling on ChoicePoint to tell us now if there was exposure for New York residents," Brennan said.

Brennan also called for New York state government offices to suspend existing contracts with ChoicePoint -- including an $800,000 deal with the state's Office for General Services -- until the firm agrees to notify New York residents.

ChoicePoint did not immediately respond to requests for reaction to Brennan's statements.

750 victims surface

Criminals tricked ChoicePoint by posing as legitimate businesses to gain access to the various ChoicePoint database, which contains a treasure trove of consumer data, including names, addresses, Social Security numbers, credit reports and other information.

At least 50 suspicious accounts had been opened in the name of nonexistent debt collectors, insurance agencies and other companies, according to the company.

Experts said the scope of the crime is almost certainly nationwide.

“I’ve never heard of a hacker doing something just to make a company comply with a state statute — that’s ridiculous,” Nick Akerman, partner and co-chair of the computer fraud division of law firm Dorsey & Whitney, told the Associated Press.

“It’d be like robbing a bank that wasn’t FDIC insured so the robber wouldn’t have to be prosecuted by the FBI.”

Already, a number of data-leak victims have discovered they have been hit by identity theft.

A report Wednesday in the Los Angeles Times said authorities have identified 750 people whose personal information was stolen and used to buy jewelry, consumer electronics and computers.

After ChoicePoint discovered in October that unidentified persons had created sham companies to access its databases, sheriff’s investigators set up a sting operation that resulted in the arrest of a Nigerian man who had been living in Southern California, the report said.

ChoicePoint spokesman James Lee acknowledged Monday that the company last week notified between 30,000 and 35,000 consumers in California that their personal data may have been accessed by "unauthorized third parties."

But in the Times article, Lee was quoted as saying the number of victims nationwide could total 100,000, though the thieves are believed to have obtained fewer than 10,000 full credit reports.

‘This is extraordinarily serious’

“This is the worst in our seven years,” the Times quoted him as saying.

“This is extraordinarily serious.”

The Times said that Los Angeles County sheriff’s investigators caught one suspect after ChoicePoint received a suspicious application for an account faxed from a Kinko’s in Southern California.

The company sent a responding fax requesting a new signature, and deputies who had staked out the store arrested Olatunji Oluwatosin, 41, when he arrived to pick up the fax, the newspaper said.

Oluwatosin, who is originally from Nigeria but had been living in North Hollywood, according to the Times, has been charged with six felony identity theft counts and is being held in lieu of $2 million bail.

The suspect told investigators he was not involved in any identity theft scam and was only picking up the fax for someone else, it said.

Oluwatosin is scheduled to appear in Los Angeles County Court on Thursday.

California consumers who received the letter from ChoicePoint expressed frustration; many had never heard of the firm before receiving the alarming letter.

"How dare they even try to make money using my Social Security Number in the first place," wrote one in an e-mail to MSNBC.com.

He requested anonymity.

"Where did they get it from?"

"I certainly didn't give it to them; I never heard of them before receiving the letter."

"In fact, I almost threw it out unopened, because I thought it was going to be a credit card solicitation or a reduced rate mortgage scam."

The Associated Press contributed to this report.
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 16 2005, 05:50 PM)
"ChoicePoint urged to make wider disclosure - More victims surface in data theft case; suspect arrested"
*

Ahhh, ChoicePoint!

A name from the past.

A name that shall live in infamy.

Not having an honest press here in OUR America, from accross the Pond comes Greg Palast, reporter for the UK Guardian, author of "The best Government Money Can Buy:"

Here's is how the Bush family stole Florida from Al Gore:




Florida's flawed "voter-cleansing" program - Salon.com's politics story of the year
www.Salon.com
Monday, December 4, 2000
If Vice President Al Gore is wondering where his Florida votes went, rather than sift through a pile of chad, he might want to look at a "scrub list" of 173,000 names targeted to be knocked off the Florida voter registry by a division of the office of Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris. A close examination suggests thousands of voters may have lost their right to vote based on a flaw-ridden list that included purported "felons" provided by a private firm with tight Republican ties.

Early in the year, the company, ChoicePoint, gave Florida officials a list with the names of 8,000 ex-felons to "scrub" from their list of voters.

But it turns out none on the list were guilty of felonies, only misdemeanors. The company acknowledged the error, and blamed it on the original source of the list -- the state of Texas.

Florida officials moved to put those falsely accused by Texas back on voter rolls before the election. Nevertheless, the large number of errors uncovered in individual counties suggests that thousands of eligible voters may have been turned away at the polls.

Florida is the only state that pays a private company that promises to "cleanse" voter rolls.The state signed in 1998 a $4 million contract with DBT Online, since merged into ChoicePoint, of Atlanta. The creation of the scrub list, called the central voter file, was mandated by a 1998 state voter fraud law, which followed a tumultuous year that saw Miami's mayor removed after voter fraud in the election, with dead people discovered to have cast ballots. The voter fraud law required all 67 counties to purge voter registries of duplicate registrations, deceased voters and felons, many of whom, but not all, are barred from voting in Florida.

In the process, however, the list invariably targets a minority population in Florida, where 31 percent of all black men cannot vote because of a ban on felons. In compiling a list by looking at felons from other states, Florida could, in the process, single out citizens who committed felons in other states but, after serving their time or successfully petitioning the courts, had their voting rights returned to them. According to Florida law, felons can vote once their voting rights have been reinstated.

And if this unfairly singled out minorities, it unfairly handicapped Gore: In Florida, 93 percent of African-Americans voted for the vice president.

In the 10 counties contacted by Salon, use of the central voter file seemed to vary wildly. Some found the list too unreliable and didn't use it at all. But most counties appear to have used the file as a resource to purge names from their voter rolls, with some counties making little -- or no -- effort at all to alert the "purged" voters. Counties that did their best to vet the file discovered a high level of errors, with as many as 15 percent of names incorrectly identified as felons.

News coverage has focused on some maverick Florida counties that decided not to use the central voter file, essentially breaking the law and possibly letting some ineligible felons vote.

On Friday, the Miami Herald reported that after researching voter records in 12 Florida counties -- but primarily in Palm Beach and Duval counties, which didn't use the file -- it found that more than 445 felons had apparently cast ballots in the presidential election.

But Palm Beach and Duval weren't the only counties to dump the list after questioning its accuracy. Madison County's elections supervisor, Linda Howell, had a peculiarly personal reason for distrusting the central voter file: She had received a letter saying that since she had committed a felony, she would not be allowed to vote.

Howell, who said she has never committed a felony, said the letter she received in March shook her faith in the process. "It really is a mess," she said.

"I was very upset," Howell said. "I know I'm not a felon." Though the mistake did get corrected and law enforcement officials were quite apologetic, Howell decided not to use the state list anymore because its "information is so flawed." She's unsure of the number of warning letters that were sent out to county residents when she first received the list in 1999, but she recalls that there were many problems. "One day we would send a letter to have someone taken off the rolls, and the next day, we would send one to put them back on again," Howell said. "It makes you look like you must be a dummy."

Dixie and Washington counties also refused to use the scrub lists. Starlet Cannon, Dixie's deputy assistant supervisor of elections, said, "I'm scared to work with it because of lot of the information they have on there is not accurate."

Carol Griffin, supervisor of elections for Washington, said, "It hasn't been accurate in the past, so we had no reason to suspect it was accurate this year."

But if some counties refused to use the list altogether, others seemed to embrace it all too enthusiastically. Etta Rosado, spokeswoman for the Volusia County Department of Elections, said the county essentially accepted the file at face value, did nothing to confirm the accuracy of it and doesn't inform citizens ahead of time that they have been dropped from the voter rolls.

"When we get the con felon list, we automatically start going through our rolls on the computer. If there's a name that says John Smith was convicted of a felony, then we enter a notation on our computer that says convicted felon -- we mark an "f" for felon -- and the date that we received it," Rosado said. "They're still on our computer, but they're on purge status," meaning they have been marked ineligible to vote.

"I don't think that it's up to us to tell them they're a convicted felon," Rosado said. "If he's on our rolls, we make a notation on there. If they show up at a polling place, we'll say, 'Wait a minute, you're a convicted felon, you can't vote. Nine out of 10 times when we repeat that to the person, they say 'Thank you' and walk away.

They don't put up arguments." Rosado doesn't know how many people in Volusia were dropped from the list as a result of being identified as felons.

Hillsborough County's elections supervisor, Pam Iorio, tried to make sure that that the bugs in the system didn't keep anyone from voting. All 3,258 county residents who were identified as possible felons on the central voter file sent by the state in June were sent a certified letter informing them that their voting rights were in jeopardy. Of that number, 551 appealed their status, and 245 of those appeals were successful.

Some had been convicted of a misdemeanor and not a felony, others were felons who had had their rights restored and others were simply cases of mistaken identity.

An additional 279 were not close matches with names on the county's own voter rolls and were not notified. Of the 3,258 names on the original list, therefore, the county concluded that more than 15 percent were in error. If that ratio held statewide, no fewer than 7,000 voters were incorrectly targeted for removal from voting rosters.

Iorio says local officials did not get adequate preparation for purging felons from their rolls. "We're not used to dealing with issues of criminal justice or ascertaining who has a felony conviction," she said. Though the central voter file was supposed to facilitate the process, it was often more troublesome than the monthly circuit court lists that she had previously used to clear her rolls of duplicate registrations, the deceased and convicted felons. "The database from the state level is not always accurate," Iorio said. As a consequence, her county did its best to notify citizens who were on the list about their felony status. "We sent those individuals a certified letter, we put an ad in a local newspaper and we held a public hearing. For those who didn't respond to that, we sent out another letter by regular mail," Iorio said. "That process lasted several months."

"We did run some number stats and the number of blacks [on the list] was higher than expected for our population," says Chuck Smith, a statistician for the county. Iorio acknowledged that African-Americans made up 54 percent of the people on the original felons list, though they constitute only 11.6 percent of Hillsborough's voting population.

Smith added that the DBT computer program automatically transformed various forms of a single name. In one case, a voter named "Christine" was identified as a felon based on the conviction of a "Christopher" with the same last name. Smith says ChoicePoint would not respond to queries about its proprietary methods.

Nor would the company provide additional verification data to back its fingering certain individuals in the registry purge. One supposed felon on the ChoicePoint list is a local judge.

While there was much about the lists that bothered Iorio, she felt she didn't have a choice but to use them. And she's right. Section 98.0975 of the Florida Constitution states: "Upon receiving the list from the division, the supervisor must attempt to verify the information provided. If the supervisor does not determine that the information provided by the division is incorrect, the supervisor must remove from the registration books by the next subsequent election the name of any person who is deceased, convicted of a felony or adjudicated mentally incapacitated with respect to voting."

But the counties have interpreted that law in different ways. Leon County used the central voter file sent in January 2000 to clean up its voter rolls, but set aside the one it received in July. According to Thomas James, the information systems officer in the county election office, the list came too late for the information to be processed.

According to Leon election supervisor Ion Sancho, "there have been some problems" with the file. Using the information received in January, Sancho sent 200 letters to county voters, by regular mail, telling them they had been identified by the state as having committed a felony and would not be allowed to vote. They were given 30 days to respond if there was an error. "They had the burden of proof," he says.

He says 20 people proved that they did not belong on the list, and a handful of angry phone calls followed on Election Day. "Some people threatened to sue us," he said, "but we haven't had any lawyers calling yet."

In Orange County, officials also sent letters to those identified as felons by the state, but they appear to have taken little care in their handling of the list. "I have no idea," said June Condrun, Orange's deputy supervisor of elections, when asked how many letters were sent out to voters. After a bit more thought, Condrun responded that "several hundred" of the letters were sent, but said she doesn't know how many people complained. Those who did call, she said, were given the phone number of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement so that they could appeal directly to it.

Many Orange County voters never got the chance to appeal in any form. Condrun noted that about one-third of the letters, which the county sent out by regular mail, were returned to the office marked undeliverable. She attributed the high rate of incorrect addresses to the age of the information sent by DBT, some of which was close to 20 years old, she said.

Miami-Dade County officials may have had similar trouble. Milton Collins, assistant supervisor of elections, said he isn't comfortable estimating how many accused felons were identified by the central voter file in his county. He said he knows that about 6,000 were notified, by regular mail, about an early list in 1999. Exactly how many were purged from the list? "I honestly couldn't tell you," he said. According to Collins, the most recent list he received from the state was one sent in January 2000, and the county applied a "two-pass system": If the information on the state list seemed accurate enough when comparing names with those on county voter lists, people were classified as felons and were then sent warning letters. Those who seemed to have only a partial match with the state data were granted "temporary inactive status." Both groups of people were given 90 days to respond or have their names struck from the rolls.

But Collins said the county has no figures for how many voters were able to successfully appeal their designation as felons.

ChoicePoint spokesman Martin Fagan concedes his company's error in passing on the bogus list from Texas. ("I guess that's a little bit embarrassing in light of the election," he says.) He defends the company's overall performance, however, dismissing the errors in 8,000 names as "a minor glitch -- less than one-tenth of 1 percent of the electorate" (though the total equals 15 times Gov. George W. Bush's claimed lead over Gore).

But he added that ChoicePoint is responsible only for turning over its raw list, which is then up to Florida officials to test and correct.

Last year, DBT Online, with which ChoicePoint would soon merge, received the unprecedented contract from the state of Florida to "cleanse" registration lists of ineligible voters -- using information gathering and matching criteria it has refused to disclose, even to local election officials in Florida.

Atlanta's ChoicePoint, a highflying dot-com specializing in sales of personal information gleaned from its database of 4 billion public and not-so-public records, has come under fire for misuse of private data from government computers.

In January, the state of Pennsylvania terminated
a contract with ChoicePoint after discovering the firm had sold citizens' personal profiles to unauthorized individuals.

Fagan says many errors could have been eliminated by matching the Social Security numbers of ex-felons on DBT lists to the Social Security numbers on voter registries. However, Florida's counties have Social Security numbers on only a fraction of their voter records. So with those two problems -- Social Security numbers missing in both the DBT's records and the counties' records -- that fail-safe check simply did not exist.

In its defense, the company proudly points to an award it received from Voter Integrity Inc. on April 1 for "innovative excellence [in] cleansing" Florida voter rolls. The conservative, nonprofit advocacy organization has campaigned in parallel with the Republican Party against the 1993 motor voter law that resulted in a nationwide increase in voter registration of 7 million, much of it among minority voters. DBT Online partnered with Voter Integrity Inc. three days later, setting up a program to let small counties "scrub" their voting lists, too.

Florida is the only state in the nation to contract the first stage of removal of voting rights to a private company. And ChoicePoint has big plans. "Given the outcome of our work in Florida," says Fagan, "and with a new president in place, we think our services will expand across the country."

Especially if that president is named "Bush." ChoicePoint's board and executive roster are packed with Republican stars, including billionaire Ken Langone, a company director who was chairman of the fund-raising committee for New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's aborted run against Hillary Rodham Clinton. Langone is joined at ChoicePoint by another Giuliani associate, former New York Police Commissioner Howard Safir.

And Republican power lobbyist and former congressman Vin Weber lobbies for ChoicePoint in Washington. Just before his death in 1998, Rick Rozar, president of a Choicepoint company, CDB Infotek, donated $100,000 to the Republican Party.

(Alicia Montgomery, Daryl Lindsey and Anthony York contributed to this story.)

GregoryPalast@Guardian.co.uk


Gregory Palast's other investigative reports can be found at www.GregoryPalast.Com where you can also subscribe to Palast's column.

Gregory Palast's column "Inside Corporate America" appears fortnightly in the
Observer's Business section. Nominated Business Writer of the Year (UK Press
Association - 2000), Investigative Story of the Year (Industrial. Society - 1999), Financial Times David Thomas Prize (1998).

http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000...file/index.html
rosstex
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Feb 16 2005, 07:26 AM)
Turkey will never allow it. "Kurdistan" was promised by the Brits at the end of WW I, but when the maps were redrawn, somehow it got left out, mainly because the Brits owed the Hashemite family big time.

The result was that they gave them Iraq and TransJordan, leaving nothing for the Kurds.

My guess is that the Kurds will be happy to keep autonomy in northern Iraq, a very attainable goal. And they have a major oil well there.

The Shi'is have oil in Mosul.

The Sunnis have nothing. That is why theyy sat out the elections; that is why they will not go quietly after living high on the hog fot 80 years.

They are not willing to be the burger flippers in the "New Iraq."
*
rosstex
Jeffmoskin, you are very correct in all that you write but the Kurds in Turkey, who share the border with the Kurds in Iraq, do want a country much like their own. That is a large part of why the Turks did not want the US to use their country as a launching pad for this war in Iraq. The Turks were afraid that their Kurds would be emboldened in their quest by the US presence.
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(rosstex @ Feb 16 2005, 08:57 PM)
Jeffmoskin, you are very correct in all that you write but the Kurds in Turkey, who share the border with the Kurds in Iraq, do want a country much like their own.  That is a large part of why the Turks did not want the US to use their country as a launching pad for this war in Iraq.  The Turks were afraid that their Kurds would be emboldened in their quest by the US presence.
*

So do the Kurds in Iran.

But they will never get it.

At least the Kurds in Iraq have a shot at an autonomous region.
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Feb 16 2005, 07:27 PM)
Ahhh, ChoicePoint!

A name from the past.

A name that shall live in infamy.

Not having an honest press here in OUR America, from accross the Pond comes Greg Palast, reporter for the UK Guardian, author of "The best Government Money Can Buy:"

"Atlanta's ChoicePoint, a highflying dot-com specializing in sales of personal information gleaned from its database of 4 billion public and not-so-public records, has come under fire for misuse of private data from government computers."

In January, the state of Pennsylvania terminated a contract with ChoicePoint after discovering the firm had sold citizens' personal profiles to unauthorized individuals.

And ChoicePoint has big plans.

"Given the outcome of our work in Florida," says Fagan, "and with a new president in place, we think our services will expand across the country."

Especially if that president is named "Bush."

ChoicePoint's board and executive roster are packed with Republican stars, including billionaire Ken Langone, a company director who was chairman of the fund-raising committee for New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's aborted run against Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Langone is joined at ChoicePoint by another Giuliani associate, former New York Police Commissioner Howard Safir.

And Republican power lobbyist and former congressman Vin Weber lobbies for ChoicePoint in Washington.

Just before his death in 1998, Rick Rozar, president of a Choicepoint company, CDB Infotek, donated $100,000 to the Republican Party.

(Alicia Montgomery, Daryl Lindsey and Anthony York contributed to this story.)

GregoryPalast@Guardian.co.uk

Gregory Palast's other investigative reports can be found at www.GregoryPalast.Com where you can also subscribe to Palast's column.

Gregory Palast's column "Inside Corporate America" appears fortnightly in the Observer's Business section. Nominated Business Writer of the Year (UK Press Association - 2000), Investigative Story of the Year (Industrial. Society - 1999), Financial Times David Thomas Prize (1998).

http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000...file/index.html

And a real good catch on this one, jeffmoskin, as this follow-up story clearly demonstrates:

Spam, Scams & Viruses

"Data theft affects 145,000 nationwide - ChoicePoint says it will notify all potential victims"

By Bob Sullivan, Technology correspondent
MSNBC

Updated: 10:37 p.m. ET Feb. 16, 2005

NEW YORK - Database giant ChoicePoint said late Wednesday that 145,000 consumers nationwide were placed at risk by a recent data theft at the company.

Previously, the company had suggested the theft only affected California residents.

ChoicePoint pledged to notify all of the potential victims.

Spokesman James Lee said the company was informing consumers as a precaution, suggesting they keep an eye out for signs of identity theft.

Atlanta-based ChoicePoint maintains and sells background files on virtually every adult American, culled from millions of public and private records.

Last week, the firm sent some 35,000 letters to California residents telling them their personal data may have been stolen by criminals who set up fake companies and downloaded information from ChoicePoint.

California is the only state that by law requires disclosure of such data leaks, and ChoicePoint initially suggested the theft of information might be limited to that state.

Lee said ChoicePoint decided to widen the notification after meeting with law enforcement officials on Wednesday.

An additional 110,000 letters will be mailed in the coming days, he said.

Criminals tricked the company by posing as legitimate businesses to gain access to the various ChoicePoint databases, which contain a treasure trove of consumer data, including names, addresses, Social Security numbers, credit reports and other information.

At least 50 suspicious accounts had been opened in the name of nonexistent debt collectors, insurance agencies and other companies, according to the company.

The incident was first revealed by MSNBC.com on Monday.

ChoicePoint pledged late Wednesday to notify all the consumers affected by the theft.

Earlier in the day, New York state legislator James Brennan had urged the state to suspend existing contracts with the database giant -- including an $800,000 deal with the state's Office for General Services -- until the firm agreed to notify New York residents.

New York is one of several states considering passing disclosure laws similar to California's.

750 victims surface; arrest made

Already, a number of data-leak victims have discovered they have been hit by identity theft.

A report Wednesday in the Los Angeles Times said authorities have identified 750 people whose personal information was stolen and used to buy jewelry, consumer electronics and computers.

After ChoicePoint discovered in October that unidentified persons had created sham companies to access its databases, sheriff’s investigators set up a sting operation that resulted in the arrest of a Nigerian man who had been living in Southern California, the report said.

After ChoicePoint received a suspicious application for an account faxed from a Kinko’s in Southern California, the company sent a responding fax requesting a new signature.

Deputies who had staked out the store arrested Olatunji Oluwatosin, 41, when he arrived to pick up the fax, the Times said.

Oluwatosin, who is originally from Nigeria but had been living in North Hollywood, according to the Times, has been charged with six felony identity theft counts and is being held in lieu of $2 million bail.

The suspect told investigators he was not involved in any identity theft scam and was only picking up the fax for someone else, it said.

Oluwatosin is scheduled to appear in Los Angeles County Court on Thursday.

California consumers who received the letter from ChoicePoint expressed frustration; many had never heard of the firm before receiving the alarming letter.

"How dare they even try to make money using my Social Security Number in the first place," wrote one in an e-mail to MSNBC.com.

He requested anonymity.

"Where did they get it from?"

"I certainly didn't give it to them; I never heard of them before receiving the letter."

"In fact, I almost threw it out unopened, because I thought it was going to be a credit card solicitation or a reduced rate mortgage scam."

Bob Sullivan is the author of Your Evil Twin: Behind the Identity Theft Epidemic.
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Feb 16 2005, 07:27 PM)
Ahhh, ChoicePoint!

A name from the past.

A name that shall live in infamy.

Not having an honest press here in OUR America, from accross the Pond comes Greg Palast, reporter for the UK Guardian, author of "The best Government Money Can Buy:"

Atlanta's ChoicePoint, a highflying dot-com specializing in sales of personal information gleaned from its database of 4 billion public and not-so-public records, has come under fire for misuse of private data from government computers.

In January, the state of Pennsylvania terminated a contract with ChoicePoint after discovering the firm had sold citizens' personal profiles to unauthorized individuals.

It is interesting that yesterday afternoon, just before I caught the original story on this Choicepoint "data sale" of information ON US, and about us, to the criminals with whom it does business, a friend told me about a doctor who she works for who had ten thousand dollars lifted in the last couple of days from his bank savings account by someone who had gotten access to his social security number.

Right after she told me that, I came across that Choicepoint story, and it sure did make me wonder!

This particular doctor is down in Florida, on vacation, and so, he had quite a chore before him yesterday, apparently, trying to stem his own losses by long-distance telephone calls to people up here for aid and assistance.

And who would ever expect such a thing could even happen, although in reality, in this day and age, it is getting to be the norm, more than the exception, it seems, to have your identity stolen from you, for ill purposes.

And when I read stories like this one, and especially that side of it that jeffmoskin has provided us with, it makes me wonder about our own "humanity", and how it is viewed by large corporate entities such as this one, that makes its money by stripping us of OUR privacy, and by then selling access to OUR privacy to whomever has the money to buy that access.

And George W. Bush wants to increase that access to OUR privacy, NOT PROTECT IT!

That is how his fat-cat buddies make their "geetus", after all, and if George W. Bush is for anyone at all, outside of himself, and his wallet, it is his fat-cat buddies, AND THEIR WALLETS!

That is who and what feeds his wallet after all, and this present incumbent IS FOR THE MONEY, so, OUR privacy must be stripped from us to keep the commerce rolling along.

Which would seem to reduce us somewhat to the level of cows out there on a feedlot in Kansas or Nebraska, somewhere - a herd kept around for investment purposes only!

Life in OUR America, in these days of the Bush Co.!

Mooooooo!
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Feb 16 2005, 07:27 PM)
Ahhh, ChoicePoint!

A name from the past.

A name that shall live in infamy.

Not having an honest press here in OUR America, from accross the Pond comes Greg Palast, reporter for the UK Guardian, author of "The best Government Money Can Buy:"

Atlanta's ChoicePoint, a highflying dot-com specializing in sales of personal information gleaned from its database of 4 billion public and not-so-public records, has come under fire for misuse of private data from government computers.

In January, the state of Pennsylvania terminated a contract with ChoicePoint after discovering the firm had sold citizens' personal profiles to unauthorized individuals.

"Given the outcome of our work in Florida," says Fagan, "and with a new president in place, we think our services will expand across the country."

Especially if that president is named "Bush."

ChoicePoint's board and executive roster are packed with Republican stars, including billionaire Ken Langone, a company director who was chairman of the fund-raising committee for New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's aborted run against Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Langone is joined at ChoicePoint by another Giuliani associate, former New York Police Commissioner Howard Safir.

The "Gilded Age" returns it seems, and in spades; and who is surprised, when you look at the "cast" of "supporting characters" such as Rudy Giuliani's "fund-raising" committee chairman?

After all, these people who raise the "geetus" and "moolah" for the REPUBLICAN BIG BOYS and FAST MOVERS and GO-GETTERS like former federal prosecutor Giuliani have to have some source for that money, and what better pockets to tap for that money than those of the ones who are stealing from us?

How can they say no, especially when they are allowed to do their stealing from us by the reciprocal service done back to them by those in positions of authority in such places as the corrupt State of New York who have learned to strategically "turn their backs" on the stealing, SO THAT IT CAN OCCUR, to enrich those who then use that money to buy themselves even more protection, FROM OUR OWN GOVERNMENT, that allows them to steal even more from us in a never-ending spiral that is reducing us to a level equal to that of feed-lot cattle, HERE IN OUR OWN NATION, where we, the citizens, are supposed to be the sovereigns, and not the victims, of OUR government.

AFTER ALL, WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY BE CALLED "SPECIAL INTERESTS", DOES ANYONE THINK, IF THEY WERE NOT IN FACT "SPECIAL"?

"Gilded Age"

"What is the chief end of man?--to get rich."

"In what way?--dishonestly if we can; honestly if we must."

-- Mark Twain-1871
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

During the "Gilded Age," every man was a potential Andrew Carnegie, and Americans who achieved wealth celebrated it as never before.

In New York, the opera, the theatre, and lavish parties consumed the ruling class' leisure hours.

Sherry's Restaurant hosted formal horseback dinners for the New York Riding Club.

Mrs. Stuyvesant Fish once threw a dinner party to honor her dog who arrived sporting a $15,000 diamond collar.

While the rich wore diamonds, many wore rags.

In 1890, 11 million of the nation's 12 million families earned less than $1200 per year; of this group, the average annual income was $380, well below the poverty line.

Rural Americans and new immigrants crowded into urban areas.

Tenements spread across city landscapes, teeming with crime and filth.

Americans had sewing machines, phonographs, skyscrapers, and even electric lights, yet most people labored in the shadow of poverty.

To those who worked in Carnegie's mills and in the nation's factories and sweatshops, the lives of the millionaires seemed immodest indeed.

An economist in 1879 noted "a widespread feeling of unrest and brooding revolution."

Violent strikes and riots wracked the nation through the turn of the century.

The middle class whispered fearfully of "carnivals of revenge."

For immediate relief, the urban poor often turned to political machines.

During the first years of the Gilded Age, Boss Tweed's Tammany Hall provided more services to the poor than any city government before it, although far more money went into Tweed's own pocket.

Corruption extended to the highest levels of government.

During Ulysses S. Grant's presidency, the president and his cabinet were implicated in the Credit Mobilier, the Gold Conspiracy, the Whiskey Ring, and the notorious Salary Grab.

Europeans were aghast.

America may have had money and factories, they felt, but it lacked sophistication.

When French prime minister Georges Clemenceau visited, he said the nation had gone from a stage of barbarism to one of decadence -- without achieving any civilization between the two.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carnegie/gildedage.html
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 17 2005, 08:14 AM)
The "Gilded Age" returns it seems, and in spades; and who is surprised, when you look at the "cast" of "supporting characters" such as Rudy Giuliani's "fund-raising" committee chairman?

After all, these people who raise the "geetus" and "moolah" for the REPUBLICAN BIG BOYS and FAST MOVERS and GO-GETTERS like former federal prosecutor Giuliani have to have some source for that money, and what better pockets to tap for that money than those of the ones who are stealing from us?

How can they say no, especially when they are allowed to do their stealing from us by the reciprocal service done back to them by those in positions of authority in such places as the corrupt State of New York who have learned to strategically "turn their backs" on the stealing, SO THAT IT CAN OCCUR, to enrich those who then use that money to buy themselves even more protection, FROM OUR OWN GOVERNMENT, that allows them to steal even more from us in a never-ending spiral that is reducing us to a level equal to that of feed-lot cattle, HERE IN OUR OWN NATION, where we, the citizens, are supposed to  be the sovereigns, and not the victims, of OUR government.

AFTER ALL, WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY BE CALLED "SPECIAL INTERESTS", DOES ANYONE THINK, IF THEY WERE NOT IN FACT "SPECIAL"?

And here is a glimpse of the "backlash" to the excesses of the "Gilded Age", right here in OUR America, where it really did occur, and not all that long ago, as time is measured in historical terms, and in the living memory of man and woman, such as us in here, who are the heart and soul of OUR America; despite the fact that we are viewed as nothing more than feed-lot cattle by this Bush Co. crowd that presently inhabits the "Halls of Power", here in OUR America:

"Carnivals of Revenge"

The frustrations of Gilded Age workers transformed the labor movement into a vigorous, if often violent, force.

Workers saw men like Andrew Carnegie getting fabulously rich, and raged at being left behind.

With their own labor the only available bargaining chip, workers frequently went on strike.

The 1880's witnessed almost ten thousand strikes and lockouts; close to 700,000 workers struck in 1886 alone.

The results were often explosive - none more than the Great Railroad Strike of 1877.

When the B&O Railroad cut wages, workers staged spontaneous strikes, which spread nationwide.

In Baltimore, the state militia fired on strikers, leaving 11 dead and 40 wounded.

In Pittsburgh, Andrew Carnegie's mentor, Thomas Scott of the Pennsylvania Railroad, urged that strikers be given "a rifle diet for a few days and see how they like that kind of bread."

In Philadelphia, strikers battled local militia, burning much of the downtown area before the federal troops intervened.

The wage reductions remained in place, and the War Department created the national guard to put down future disturbances.

Industrialists took a harder line against unions, but the labor movement grew.

In 1877, three national unions existed; in 1880 there were eighteen.

For many Americans, unionization fed a fear that "barbarians" had invaded the nation.

During a Cleveland steel strike, violent confrontations led local newspapers to attack the "un-American" Polish workers as "Ignorant and degraded whelps," "Foreign devils," and "Communistic scoundrels [who] revel in robberies, bloodshed, and arson."

In 1886, a national strike called for changing the standard workday from 12-hours to eight.

At 12,000 companies nationwide, 340,000 workers stopped work.

In Chicago police were trying to break up a large labor meeting in Haymarket Square, when a bomb exploded without warning, killing a police officer.

Police fired into the crowd, killing one and wounding many more.

As a result of the riot, four labor organizers were hanged.

The hangings demoralized the national labor movement and energized management.

By 1890, Knights of Labor membership had plummeted by ninety percent.

The 1892 battle at Carnegie's Homestead mill became a model for stamping out strikes: hold firm and call in government troops for support.

The brutal depression of 1893-94 triggered some of the worst labor conflicts in the country's history, including the strike against the Pullman Palace Car Company.

When George Pullman slashed wages and hiked rents in his company town, a national strike and boycott was called on all railways carrying Pullman cars.

Railroad traffic ground to a halt as 260,000 workers struck, and battles with state and federal troops broke out in 26 states.

The strike ultimately failed, its leaders imprisoned and many strikers blacklisted.

The labor movement lay in shambles, and would not rise again for nearly fifty years.

Although workers would find new strength in the next century, they would never again pose the same broad challenge to the claims of capital.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 17 2005, 08:24 AM)
And here is a glimpse of the "backlash" to the excesses of the "Gilded Age", right here in OUR America, where it really did occur, and not all that long ago, as time is measured in historical terms, and in the living memory of man and woman, such as us in here, who are the heart and soul of OUR America; despite the fact that we are viewed as nothing more than feed-lot cattle by this Bush Co. crowd that presently inhabits the "Halls of Power", here in OUR America:

"Carnivals of Revenge"

The frustrations of Gilded Age workers transformed the labor movement into a vigorous, if often violent, force.

Workers saw men like Andrew Carnegie getting fabulously rich, and raged at being left behind.

With their own labor the only available bargaining chip, workers frequently went on strike.

The 1880's witnessed almost ten thousand strikes and lockouts; close to 700,000 workers struck in 1886 alone.

The results were often explosive - none more than the Great Railroad Strike of 1877.

When the B&O Railroad cut wages, workers staged spontaneous strikes, which spread nationwide.

In Baltimore, the state militia fired on strikers, leaving 11 dead and 40 wounded.

In Pittsburgh, Andrew Carnegie's mentor, Thomas Scott of the Pennsylvania Railroad, urged that strikers be given "a rifle diet for a few days and see how they like that kind of bread."

In Philadelphia, strikers battled local militia, burning much of the downtown area before the federal troops intervened.

The 1892 battle at Carnegie's Homestead mill became a model for stamping out strikes: hold firm and call in government troops for support.

"The 1892 battle at Carnegie's Homestead mill BECAME A MODEL for stamping out strikes: HOLD FIRM AND CALL IN GOVERNMENT TROOPS FOR SUPPORT!"

SPECIAL INTERESTS, INDEED; and here is one of the "very special" from that "Gilded Age" period of OUR American history:

"Jay Gould", From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Jay Gould (May 27, 1836 - December 2, 1892), American financier, was born in Roxbury, New York.

He was brought up on his father's farm, studied at Hobart Academy, and though he left school in his sixteenth year, devoted himself assiduously thereafter to private study, chiefly of mathematics and surveying, at the same time keeping books for a blacksmith for his board.

Birth and early career

Jay was the son of John Burr Gould (1792-1866) and Mary Moore (c1800-1841).

For a short time he worked for his father in the hardware business.

He then engaged in the lumber and tanning business in western New York, and in banking at Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania.

The railroad business

Through his wife's father, Daniel S. Miller, he was appointed manager of the Rensselaer & Saratoga railway.

He bought up and reorganized the railroad when it was in a very bad condition.

In the same way he bought and reorganized the Rutland & Washington railway, from which he ultimately realized a large profit.

In 1859 he moved to New York City, where he became a broker in railway stocks.

In July 1868, the "Erie War", which Gould and James Fisk engaged in against Cornelius Vanderbilt over control of the Erie Railroad, ended with Gould and Fisk taking control of the railroad.

Gould was elected president of the railroad later that year.

Gould and Fisk plundered the railroad and manipulated stock prices.

From 1868-1870, the company sold $5 million in fraudulent stock, leading to litigation that forced Gould out of the company in March 1872 and forced him to pay back about $7.5 million

The Tweed Ring

It was during the same period that Gould and Fisk became involved with Tammany Hall; they made Boss Tweed a director of the Erie, and Tweed in turn arranged favourable legislation for them.

Tweed and Gould became the subjects of political cartoons by Thomas Nast in 1869.

In October 1871, when Tweed was held on $1 million bail, Gould was the chief bondsman.

Black Friday

In August 1869, Gould and Fisk began to buy gold in an attempt to corner the market, hoping that the increase in price of gold would increase the price of wheat such that western farmers would sell, causing a great amount of shipping of breadstuffs eastward, increasing freight business for the Erie railroad.

During this time, Gould used contacts with President Ulysses S. Grant's brother-in-law, A. H. Corbin, to try to influence the president and his Secretary General Horace Porter.

These speculations in gold culminated in the panic of Black Friday, on September 24, 1869, when the price of gold fell from 162 to 135.

Late career and death

After being forced out of the Erie Railroad, Gould gained control of the Union Pacific Railroad, withdrawing from it in 1883 after realizing a large profit.

He built up what became known as the Gould System of railways by gaining control of a total of four western railroads, including the UP and the Missouri Pacific Railroad.

In 1880 he was in virtual control of 10,000 miles (16,000 km) of railway, about one-ninth of the length of rail in the United States at that time.

Gould also obtained a controlling interest in the Western Union telegraph company, and after 1881 in the elevated railways in New York City, and was intimately connected with many of the largest railway financial operations in the United States from 1868-1888.

He died of consumption and of mental strain on December 2, 1892 and was interred in the Woodlawn Cemetery in The Bronx, New York.

His fortune was estimated at $72 million, all of which he left to his own family.

Reference

This entry incorporates public domain text originally from the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica.
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 17 2005, 07:14 AM)
"What is the chief end of man?--to get rich."
"In what way?--dishonestly if we can; honestly if we must."-- Mark Twain-1871

When French prime minister Georges Clemenceau visited, he said the nation had gone from a stage of barbarism to one of decadence -- without achieving any civilization between the two.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carnegie/gildedage.html
*

Barbarism to decadence? Without achieving any civilization?

Mon Dieu, Monsieur Clemenceau!

Were you not aware of the great expanse of American Empire (we called it Manifest Destiny) that rigged a phoney Mexican attack, leaving America "owning" most of northern Mexico? Were you not aware of the betrayals of our treaties with the Indians and the subsequent wars that added most of the remaining West? Were you not aware of how we swindled Russia out of Alasksa?

Sacre Bleu. We were EVERY BIT as civilized as the French; only we did our colonizing on our OWN continent.

QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 17 2005, 07:24 AM)
And here is a glimpse of the "backlash" to the excesses of the "Gilded Age", right here in OUR America, where it really did occur, and not all that long ago, as time is measured in historical terms, and in the living memory of man and woman, such as us in here, who are the heart and soul of OUR America; despite the fact that we are viewed as nothing more than feed-lot cattle by this Bush Co. crowd that presently inhabits the "Halls of Power", here in OUR America:

"Carnivals of Revenge"

The frustrations of Gilded Age workers transformed the labor movement into a vigorous, if often violent, force.

Workers saw men like Andrew Carnegie getting fabulously rich, and raged at being left behind.

With their own labor the only available bargaining chip, workers frequently went on strike.

The 1880's witnessed almost ten thousand strikes and lockouts; close to 700,000 workers struck in 1886 alone.

The results were often explosive - none more than the Great Railroad Strike of 1877.

When the B&O Railroad cut wages, workers staged spontaneous strikes, which spread nationwide.

In Baltimore, the state militia fired on strikers, leaving 11 dead and 40 wounded.

In Pittsburgh, Andrew Carnegie's mentor, Thomas Scott of the Pennsylvania Railroad, urged that strikers be given "a rifle diet for a few days and see how they like that kind of bread."

In Philadelphia, strikers battled local militia, burning much of the downtown area before the federal troops intervened.

The wage reductions remained in place, and the War Department created the national guard to put down future disturbances.

Industrialists took a harder line against unions, but the labor movement grew.

In 1877, three national unions existed; in 1880 there were eighteen.

For many Americans, unionization fed a fear that "barbarians" had invaded the nation.

During a Cleveland steel strike, violent confrontations led local newspapers to attack the "un-American" Polish workers as "Ignorant and degraded whelps," "Foreign devils," and "Communistic scoundrels [who] revel in robberies, bloodshed, and arson."

In 1886, a national strike called for changing the standard workday from 12-hours to eight.

At 12,000 companies nationwide, 340,000 workers stopped work.

In Chicago police were trying to break up a large labor meeting in Haymarket Square, when a bomb exploded without warning, killing a police officer.

Police fired into the crowd, killing one and wounding many more.

As a result of the riot, four labor organizers were hanged.

The hangings demoralized the national labor movement and energized management.

By 1890, Knights of Labor membership had plummeted by ninety percent.

The 1892 battle at Carnegie's Homestead mill became a model for stamping out strikes: hold firm and call in government troops for support.

The brutal depression of 1893-94 triggered some of the worst labor conflicts in the country's history, including the strike against the Pullman Palace Car Company.

When George Pullman slashed wages and hiked rents in his company town, a national strike and boycott was called on all railways carrying Pullman cars.

Railroad traffic ground to a halt as 260,000 workers struck, and battles with state and federal troops broke out in 26 states.

The strike ultimately failed, its leaders imprisoned and many strikers blacklisted.

The labor movement lay in shambles, and would not rise again for nearly fifty years.

Although workers would find new strength in the next century, they would never again pose the same broad challenge to the claims of capital.
*


Sadly, people today associate the name "Carnegie" either with music or with higher learning. He was a real pr*ck in his day.
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 17 2005, 07:38 AM)
"The 1892 battle at Carnegie's Homestead mill BECAME A MODEL for stamping out strikes: HOLD FIRM AND CALL IN GOVERNMENT TROOPS FOR SUPPORT!"

SPECIAL INTERESTS, INDEED; and here is one of the "very special" from that "Gilded Age" period of OUR American history:

"Jay Gould", From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Jay Gould (May 27, 1836 - December 2, 1892), American financier, was born in Roxbury, New York.

He was brought up on his father's farm, studied at Hobart Academy, and though he left school in his sixteenth year, devoted himself assiduously thereafter to private study, chiefly of mathematics and surveying, at the same time keeping books for a blacksmith for his board.

Birth and early career

Jay was the son of John Burr Gould (1792-1866) and Mary Moore (c1800-1841).

For a short time he worked for his father in the hardware business.

He then engaged in the lumber and tanning business in western New York, and in banking at Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania.

The railroad business

Through his wife's father, Daniel S. Miller, he was appointed manager of the Rensselaer & Saratoga railway.

He bought up and reorganized the railroad when it was in a very bad condition.

In the same way he bought and reorganized the Rutland & Washington railway, from which he ultimately realized a large profit.

In 1859 he moved to New York City, where he became a broker in railway stocks.

In July 1868, the "Erie War", which Gould and James Fisk engaged in against Cornelius Vanderbilt over control of the Erie Railroad, ended with Gould and Fisk taking control of the railroad.

Gould was elected president of the railroad later that year.

Gould and Fisk plundered the railroad and manipulated stock prices.

From 1868-1870, the company sold $5 million in fraudulent stock, leading to litigation that forced Gould out of the company in March 1872 and forced him to pay back about $7.5 million

The Tweed Ring

It was during the same period that Gould and Fisk became involved with Tammany Hall; they made Boss Tweed a director of the Erie, and Tweed in turn arranged favourable legislation for them.

Tweed and Gould became the subjects of political cartoons by Thomas Nast in 1869.

In October 1871, when Tweed was held on $1 million bail, Gould was the chief bondsman.

Black Friday

In August 1869, Gould and Fisk began to buy gold in an attempt to corner the market, hoping that the increase in price of gold would increase the price of wheat such that western farmers would sell, causing a great amount of shipping of breadstuffs eastward, increasing freight business for the Erie railroad.

During this time, Gould used contacts with President Ulysses S. Grant's brother-in-law, A. H. Corbin, to try to influence the president and his Secretary General Horace Porter.

These speculations in gold culminated in the panic of Black Friday, on September 24, 1869, when the price of gold fell from 162 to 135.

Late career and death

After being forced out of the Erie Railroad, Gould gained control of the Union Pacific Railroad, withdrawing from it in 1883 after realizing a large profit.

He built up what became known as the Gould System of railways by gaining control of a total of four western railroads, including the UP and the Missouri Pacific Railroad.

In 1880 he was in virtual control of 10,000 miles (16,000 km) of railway, about one-ninth of the length of rail in the United States at that time.

Gould also obtained a controlling interest in the Western Union telegraph company, and after 1881 in the elevated railways in New York City, and was intimately connected with many of the largest railway financial operations in the United States from 1868-1888.

He died of consumption and of mental strain on December 2, 1892 and was interred in the Woodlawn Cemetery in The Bronx, New York.

His fortune was estimated at $72 million, all of which he left to his own family.

Reference

This entry incorporates public domain text originally from the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica.
*

Thanks for reminding me why I left The Empire State in 1964. I knew that weather was not the only reason.
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Feb 17 2005, 09:45 AM)
Barbarism to decadence?

Without achieving any civilization?

Mon Dieu, Monsieur Clemenceau!

Were you not aware of the great expanse of American Empire (we called it Manifest Destiny) that rigged a phoney Mexican attack,  leaving America "owning" most of northern Mexico?

Were you not aware of the betrayals of our treaties with the Indians and the subsequent wars that added most of the remaining West?

Were you not aware of how we swindled Russia out of Alasksa?

Sacre Bleu.

We were EVERY BIT  as civilized as the French; only we did our colonizing on our OWN continent.

Oh, god, jeffmoskin, you're going to get me laughing so hard I might hurt myself, somehow!
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Feb 17 2005, 09:45 AM)
Thanks for reminding me why I left The Empire State in 1964.

I knew that weather was not the only reason.

And many people have left since, jeffmoskin, for the same reasosn, and some, or many, especially the young, I have encouraged to go!

"Get out while you can, and don't ever look back!"

The corrupt Empire State of New York, and except for a few brief periods under the likes of Theodore Roosevelt and Alfred Smith, New York has been a corrupt place to do business, and apparently the people must like it, as it persists, and my experience is that the people do like the corruption, and hence, we have it!

What the people want in a democracy is what the people get, after all, and so .....

Having been born and educated here in New York state, in a small town, I was exposed to this corrupt history of New York State by my teachers at a very young age, and I was taught that we have "checks and balances" in OUR constitution to prevent the type of corruption that existed early on in New York's history, way back in the day's of the King's governors when New York was but a colony!

Of course, later on, you learn that the checks-and-balances have been completely circumvented, and in some cases, dismantled outright, and that the corruption of the King's governors such as Lord Cornbury still not only exists, but actually flourishes right here in the Capital District area of the corrupt Empire State.

The "ROTTON BOUROUGHS", all over again!

Government exists for the sole purpose of enriching those who would govern!

jeffmoskin, as for me, I am quite happy that you did escape, and that you did make your way to sunny California, so that you could become successful in your life, so that you can then come in here, with your sunny California outlook on life, and be a counter-point to my northern dourness!
Livyjr
And here I want to update the "happenings" in Iraq, vis-a-vis their own search for where democracy is going to take them, as a people, and as a nation:

Top Stories - AP

"Wrangling Over New Iraq Government Begins"

1 hour, 25 minutes ago

By CHRIS TOMLINSON, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq's electoral commission certified the results of the Jan. 30 elections Thursday, clearing the way for the country's first democratic parliament in half a century.

But wrangling over who will get top posts in the Shiite-dominated government means the new National Assembly is unlikely to convene for weeks.

The certification came as current Prime Minister Ayad Allawi warned the new government to avoid further alienating minority Sunni Arabs who were members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party and largely stayed away from the polls.

"We cannot afford in this country, for now, to go on a route different to that of national unity," Allawi told The Associated Press.

Otherwise, "it will throw the country into problems, severe problems," said Allawi, who spoke English in the interview.

The Sunni-led Iraqis Party won only five seats in parliament, but Shiite and Kurdish leaders have said they are reaching out to prominent Sunnis who boycotted the election to participate in the new government.

A key challenge for the new government will ending a largely Sunni-led insurgency that kills dozens of people every week.

Most Iraqis say only negotiations will end the attacks.

Iraqi police killed two men with suspected links to al-Qaida's affiliate in Iraq and arrested five others during raids in Baqouba, 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, the city's police chief, Major Gen. Adel Molan, said Thursday.

"We found huge amounts of weapons, including mortars, assault rifles, and explosives."

"We also found computers and CDs which show the beheading of several hostages in addition to letters which they were about to send to Osama bin Laden," Molan said of Tuesday's raids.

In the latest hostage ordeal, a Swedish citizen kidnapped in Iraq appeared in a video with a gun pointed at his head, appealing to the pope and Sweden's king to help win his release from insurgents, Swedish media reported.

A group calling itself "Martyr of al-Isawy Brigades" said it kidnapped the Swede of Iraqi descent as he traveled from Mosul to Baghdad this month.

The National Assembly will be in power for only 10 months, and its main job will be to draft a constitution so new elections can be held in December.

But it won't convene until disputes are resolved over who will become prime minister — the top post in the new government.

That process may take days or even weeks.

The clergy-backed United Iraqi Alliance won 140 seats, giving it a slight majority in the 275-member parliament.

But a two-thirds majority — 182 seats — is needed to confirm the next president, two vice presidents, the prime minister and his Cabinet.

Kurdish parties, which came in second with 75 seats, have apparently agreed to support the alliance's candidate for prime minister in return for the presidency, though they have also offered to produce a compromise candidate for prime minister, if needed.

Kurdish officials have said they would not accept a theocratic government.

"We will reject, and we won't allow, the establishment of a theocratic state; we want separation between religion and state," said Noshirwan Mustafa, an aide to Jalal Talabani, the Sunni Kurd who is expected to become president.

Ali Hashim al-Youshaa, one of the United Iraqi Alliance's leaders, said the coalition has recruited eight lawmakers from other political parties to join the bloc in parliament, and that talks were under way to recruit many more.

There is no timetable for convening the National Assembly, and the current government will work with incoming lawmakers to set a date to convene.

Once the assembly meets, there is also no deadline for appointing the largely ceremonial president and two vice presidents, who will in turn name the prime minister.

Most observers don't expect the assembly to appoint the president until there is consensus on who will be prime minister and who will be in the Cabinet.

Once the president is appointed, a prime minister must be named within two weeks.

The two leading candidates to be the alliance's nominee for prime minister are interim Vice President Ibrahim al-Jaafari and Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmad Chalabi.

Allawi, whose secular party won 40 seats, insists he is still in the running as a compromise candidate.

Al-Jaafari said Thursday he expects the alliance to agree on a nominee within the next two days, but it wasn't clear if he expected the candidate to have the backing of the 182 lawmakers needed to win, or the support only of the alliance.

"We are having free discussions about who is going to be the prime minister and it probably will take two or three days to announce who is going to be the prime minister," al-Jaafari said following certification of the election results.

Adnan al-Kadhimi, an aide to al-Jaafari, said he expects the assembly to convene for the first time March 1.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 17 2005, 04:11 PM)
And here I want to update the "happenings" in Iraq, vis-a-vis their own search for where democracy is going to take them, as a people, and as a nation:

Top Stories - AP

"Wrangling Over New Iraq Government Begins"

By CHRIS TOMLINSON, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq's electoral commission certified the results of the Jan. 30 elections Thursday, clearing the way for the country's first democratic parliament in half a century.

But wrangling over who will get top posts in the Shiite-dominated government means the new National Assembly is unlikely to convene for weeks.

The two leading candidates to be the alliance's nominee for prime minister are interim Vice President Ibrahim al-Jaafari and Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmad Chalabi.

Allawi, whose secular party won 40 seats, insists he is still in the running as a compromise candidate.

Today was a beautiful day where I am, with a beautiful cobalt-blue sky, and luckily for me, I got to be outside today, so that I could enjoy that sky!

And as I was puttering around out there, a thought came to me that the George W. Bush presidency is like a parody of the Mel Brook's movie, "Blazing Saddles", which itself was a parody of American western movies!

SO!

A parody of a parody, and when I read news articles like this one directly above, that point comes hammering home, where Ahmad Chalabi, the former Bush Co. "REJECT", is now in the running to be Iraq's prime minister, and the hand-picked Bush Co. puppet Allawi appears to be on his way out the door!

What a turn of events, and how typical of a Bush Co. production!

BUT ......

Never a dull moment, and that is for sure!

Take that right to the bank; here, in OUR America!
Abu Beacon
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 17 2005, 05:11 PM)
And here I want to update the "happenings" in Iraq, vis-a-vis their own search for where democracy is going to take them, as a people, and as a nation:



"Wrangling Over New Iraq Government Begins"

1BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq's electoral commission certified the results of the Jan. 30 elections Thursday, clearing the way for the country's first democratic parliament in half a century.

Allawi, whose secular party won 40 seats, insists he is still in the running as a compromise candidate.

*



Good work on this, Livyjr.

Being that George Bush is such a good friend to Mr. Allawi, he is probably making plans to loan Mr. Rove to him.

BTW, take a run over to the George Bush vs. The Holy Bible thread when you have a moment. I unintentionally posted a thread on that one,which I had planned to put here.

A.B.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Feb 17 2005, 04:35 PM)
BTW, take a run over to the George Bush vs. The Holy Bible thread when you have a moment.

I unintentionally posted a thread on that one,which I had planned to put here.

A.B.

And here I want to take a moment to "plug" A.B.'s new thread entitled George W. Bush vs. The Holy Bible which is over in the "religion/politics" room of this forum!

To get there in a hurry, or easily, click on my name, or A.B.'s, if it is handy, and then go to "member's posts", and find that heading, and then click on the "post number", and this wonderful forum elevator/escalator/person mover service will whisk you right to that thread in a heartbeat!

Some interesting discussion is evolving over there, and to me, that is always a good thing, when people can communicate, as opposed to arguing, and flaming, and all of that other somewhat juvenile behavior that can occur in here just as easily as it can occur out there in reality, itself.

SO!

Stop on by over there, and see for yourselves is my advice on that subject!

And yes, A.B., I did see that post you make reference to, and to be truthful I thought it fit right in over there.

And if necessary, you can certainly cut and paste it to here as well, but right now, A.B., I think it is fine where it is!
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Feb 11 2005, 11:43 AM)
And we ARE having an effect.

In reading this morning's NY Times, it turns out that the bloggers are responsible for getting out the story on James D Guckert, AKA Jeff Gannon, believed to be the one who outed Valerie Plame.

"Democrats Want Investigation of Reporter Using Fake Name"
By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE

Two Democrats in Congress are pressing for investigations into how a Washington reporter who used a pseudonym managed to gain access to the White House and had access to classified documents that named Valerie Plame as a C.I.A. operative.

Until Wednesday when he resigned, Mr. Guckert worked for TalonNews.com, a Web site operated by Robert Eberle, a Texas Republican.

Mr. Guckert said in a March 2004 interview with his own news service, in which he was referred to as Mr. Gannon, that the classified document had been "easily accessible."

The two Democrats questioned how a person with "dubious qualifications" had access to such a document.

The Democrats also wrote to the Secret Service seeking an explanation of how someone using a pseudonym was cleared to enter the White House daily press briefings as well as a presidential news conference last month.

They said in their letter that allowing such a person in "appears to deviate significantly from heightened security measures you have employed recently."

Karl Frisch, a spokesman for Ms. Slaughter, said: "This is a guy who could not get credentialed by the House or the Senate press galleries, and yet managed to get into the White House and question the president" and have access to a top-secret document.

He added: "To imply he has no connection to the White House is just not credible."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/11/politics...print&position=

And while I am out collecting some further information on who this Ahmad Chalabi character is, here is another view on this Gannon business that jeffmoskin posted above; this from Ms. Maureen Dowd, of the New York Times, herself quite a feisty lady, indeed, and her opinion on this matter is worth noting, in my opinion, anyway:

February 17, 2005

OP-ED COLUMNIST

"Bush's Barberini Faun" By MAUREEN DOWD

WASHINGTON

I am very impressed with James Guckert, aka Jeff Gannon.

How often does an enterprising young man, heralded in press reports as both a reporter and a contributor to such sites as Hotmilitarystud.com, Workingboys.net, Militaryescorts.com, MilitaryescortsM4M.com and Meetlocalmen.com, get to question the president of the United States?

Who knew that a hotmilitarystud wanting to meetlocalmen could so easily get to be face2face with the commander in chief?

It's hard to believe the White House could hit rock bottom on credibility again, but it has, in a bizarre maelstrom that plays like a dark comedy.

How does it credential a man with a double life and a secret past?

"Jeff Gannon" was waved into the press room nearly every day for two years as the conservative correspondent for two political Web sites operated by a wealthy Texas Republican.

Scott McClellan often called on the pseudoreporter for softball questions.

Howard Kurtz reported in The Washington Post yesterday that although Mr. Guckert had denied launching the provocative Web sites - one described him as " 'military, muscular, masculine and discrete' (sic)" - a Web designer in California said "that he had designed a gay escort site for Gannon and had posted naked pictures of Gannon at the client's request."

And The Wilmington News-Journal in Delaware reported that Mr. Guckert was delinquent in $20,700 in personal income tax from 1991 to 1994.

I'm still mystified by this story.

I was rejected for a White House press pass at the start of the Bush administration, but someone with an alias, a tax evasion problem and Internet pictures where he posed like the "Barberini Faun" is credentialed to cover a White House that won a second term by mining homophobia and preaching family values?

At first when I tried to complain about not getting my pass renewed, even though I'd been covering presidents and first ladies since 1986, no one called me back.

Finally, when Mr. McClellan replaced Ari Fleischer, he said he'd renew the pass - after a new Secret Service background check that would last several months.

In an era when security concerns are paramount, what kind of Secret Service background check did James Guckert get so he could saunter into the West Wing every day under an assumed name while he was doing full-frontal advertising for stud services for $1,200 a weekend?

He used a driver's license that said James Guckert to get into the White House, then, once inside, switched to his alter ego, asking questions as Jeff Gannon.

Mr. McClellan shrugged this off to Editor & Publisher magazine, oddly noting, "People use aliases all the time in life, from journalists to actors."

I know the F.B.I. computers don't work, but this is ridiculous.

After getting gobsmacked by the louche sagas of Mr. Guckert and Bernard Kerik, the White House vetters should consider adding someone with some blogging experience.

Does the Bush team love everything military so much that even a military-stud Web site is a recommendation?

Or maybe Gannon/Guckert's willingness to shill free for the White House, even on gay issues, was endearing.

One of his stories mocked John Kerry's "pro-homosexual platform" with the headline "Kerry Could Become First Gay President."

With the Bushies, if you're their friend, anything goes.

If you're their critic, nothing goes.

They're waging a jihad against journalists - buying them off so they'll promote administration programs, trying to put them in jail for doing their jobs and replacing them with ringers.

At last month's press conference, Jeff Gannon asked Mr. Bush how he could work with Democrats "who seem to have divorced themselves from reality."

But Bush officials have divorced themselves from reality.

They flipped TV's in the West Wing and Air Force One to Fox News.

They paid conservative columnists handsomely to promote administration programs.

Federal agencies distributed packaged "news" video releases with faux anchors so local news outlets would run them.

As CNN reported, the Pentagon produces Web sites with "news" articles intended to influence opinion abroad and at home, but you have to look hard for the disclaimer: "Sponsored by the U.S. Department of Defense."

The agencies spent a whopping $88 million spinning reality in 2004, splurging on P.R. contracts.

Even the Nixon White House didn't do anything this creepy.

It's worse than hating the press.

It's an attempt to reinvent it.

E-mail: liberties@nytimes.com
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 17 2005, 05:23 PM)
And while I am out collecting some further information on who this Ahmad Chalabi character is, here is another view on this Gannon business that jeffmoskin posted above; this from Ms. Maureen Dowd, of the New York Times, herself quite a feisty lady, indeed, and her opinion on this matter is worth noting, in my opinion, anyway:

February 17, 2005

OP-ED COLUMNIST

"Bush's Barberini Faun" By MAUREEN DOWD

WASHINGTON

I am very impressed with James Guckert, aka Jeff Gannon.

How often does an enterprising young man, heralded in press reports as both a reporter and a contributor to such sites as Hotmilitarystud.com, Workingboys.net, Militaryescorts.com, MilitaryescortsM4M.com and Meetlocalmen.com, get to question the president of the United States?

Who knew that a hotmilitarystud wanting to meetlocalmen could so easily get to be face2face with the commander in chief?

It's hard to believe the White House could hit rock bottom on credibility again, but it has, in a bizarre maelstrom that plays like a dark comedy.

How does it credential a man with a double life and a secret past?

"Jeff Gannon" was waved into the press room nearly every day for two years as the conservative correspondent for two political Web sites operated by a wealthy Texas Republican.

Scott McClellan often called on the pseudoreporter for softball questions.

I'm still mystified by this story.

I was rejected for a White House press pass at the start of the Bush administration, but someone with an alias, a tax evasion problem and Internet pictures where he posed like the "Barberini Faun" is credentialed to cover a White House that won a second term by mining homophobia and preaching family values?

Does the Bush team love everything military so much that even a military-stud Web site is a recommendation?

Or maybe Gannon/Guckert's willingness to shill free for the White House, even on gay issues, was endearing.

One of his stories mocked John Kerry's "pro-homosexual platform" with the headline "Kerry Could Become First Gay President."

With the Bushies, if you're their friend, anything goes.

If you're their critic, nothing goes.

And while I was on my way to look for that Ahmad Chalabi information, one more take on this Gannon story was waiting for me in my e-mail box, so to keep things concise, I will post it here, for the balance it might lend to understanding exactly what is going on here, outside of the "just plain wierdness" that seems to permeate and pervade this Bush Co. presidency:

February 20, 2005

FRANK RICH, NY Times

"The White House Stages Its 'Daily Show'"

THE prayers of those hoping that real television news might take its cues from Jon Stewart were finally answered on Feb. 9, 2005.

A real newsman borrowed a technique from fake news to deliver real news about fake news in prime time.

Let me explain.

On "Countdown," a nightly news hour on MSNBC, the anchor, Keith Olbermann, led off with a classic "Daily Show"-style bit: a rapid-fire montage of sharply edited video bites illustrating the apparent idiocy of those in Washington.

In this case, the eight clips stretched over a year in the White House briefing room - from February 2004 to late last month - and all featured a reporter named "Jeff."

In most of them, the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan, says "Go ahead, Jeff," and "Jeff" responds with a softball question intended not to elicit information but to boost President Bush and smear his political opponents.

In the last clip, "Jeff" is quizzing the president himself, in his first post-inaugural press conference of Jan. 26.

Referring to Harry Reid and Hillary Clinton, "Jeff" asks, "How are you going to work with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?"

If we did not live in a time when the news culture itself is divorced from reality, the story might end there: "Jeff," you'd assume, was a lapdog reporter from a legitimate, if right-wing, news organization like Fox, and you'd get some predictable yuks from watching a compressed video anthology of his kissing up to power.

But as Mr. Olbermann explained, "Jeff Gannon," the star of the montage, was a newsman no more real than a "Senior White House Correspondent" like Stephen Colbert on "The Daily Show" and he worked for a news organization no more real than The Onion.

Yet the video broadcast by Mr. Olbermann was not fake.

"Jeff" was in the real White House, and he did have those exchanges with the real Mr. McClellan and the real Mr. Bush.

"Jeff Gannon's" real name is James D. Guckert.

His employer was a Web site called Talon News, staffed mostly by volunteer Republican activists.

Media Matters for America, the liberal press monitor that has done the most exhaustive research into the case, discovered that Talon's "news" often consists of recycled Republican National Committee and White House press releases, and its content frequently overlaps with another partisan site, GOPUSA, with which it shares its owner, a Texas delegate to the 2000 Republican convention.

Nonetheless, for nearly two years the White House press office had credentialed Mr. Guckert, even though, as Dana Milbank of The Washington Post explained on Mr. Olbermann's show, he "was representing a phony media company that doesn't really have any such thing as circulation or readership."

How this happened is a mystery that has yet to be solved.

"Jeff" has now quit Talon News not because he and it have been exposed as fakes but because of other embarrassing blogosphere revelations linking him to sites like hotmilitarystud.com and to an apparently promising career as an X-rated $200-per-hour "escort."

If Mr. Guckert, the author of Talon News exclusives like "Kerry Could Become First Gay President," is yet another link in the boundless network of homophobic Republican closet cases, that's not without interest.

But it shouldn't distract from the real question - that is, the real news - of how this fake newsman might be connected to a White House propaganda machine that grows curiouser by the day.

Though Mr. McClellan told Editor & Publisher magazine that he didn't know until recently that Mr. Guckert was using an alias, Bruce Bartlett, a White House veteran of the Reagan-Bush I era, wrote on the nonpartisan journalism Web site Romenesko, that "if Gannon was using an alias, the White House staff had to be involved in maintaining his cover."

(Otherwise, it would be a rather amazing post-9/11 security breach.)

By my count, "Jeff Gannon" is now at least the sixth "journalist" (four of whom have been unmasked so far this year) to have been a propagandist on the payroll of either the Bush administration or a barely arms-length ally like Talon News while simultaneously appearing in print or broadcast forums that purport to be real news.

Of these six, two have been syndicated newspaper columnists paid by the Department of Health and Human Services to promote the administration's "marriage" initiatives.

The other four have played real newsmen on TV.

Before Mr. Guckert and Armstrong Williams, the talking head paid $240,000 by the Department of Education, there were Karen Ryan and Alberto Garcia.

Let us not forget these pioneers - the Woodward and Bernstein of fake news.

They starred in bogus reports ("In Washington, I'm Karen Ryan reporting," went the script) pretending to "sort through the details" of the administration's Medicare prescription-drug plan in 2004.

Such "reports," some of which found their way into news packages distributed to local stations by CNN, appeared in more than 50 news broadcasts around the country and have now been deemed illegal "covert propaganda" by the Government Accountability Office.

The money that paid for both the Ryan-Garcia news packages and the Armstrong Williams contract was siphoned through the same huge public relations firm, Ketchum Communications, which itself filtered the funds through subcontractors.

A new report by Congressional Democrats finds that Ketchum has received $97 million of the administration's total $250 million P.R. kitty, of which the Williams and Ryan-Garcia scams would account for only a fraction.

We have yet to learn precisely where the rest of it ended up.

Even now, we know that the fake news generated by the six known shills is only a small piece of the administration's overall propaganda effort.

President Bush wasn't entirely joking when he called the notoriously meek March 6, 2003, White House press conference on the eve of the Iraq invasion "scripted" while it was still going on.

(And "Jeff Gannon" apparently wasn't even at that one).

Everything is scripted.

The pre-fab "Ask President Bush" town hall-style meetings held during last year's campaign (typical question: "Mr. President, as a child, how can I help you get votes?") were carefully designed for television so that, as Kenneth R. Bazinet wrote last summer in New York's Daily News, "unsuspecting viewers" tuning in their local news might get the false impression they were "watching a completely open forum."

A Pentagon Office of Strategic Influence, intended to provide propagandistic news items, some of them possibly false, to foreign news media was shut down in 2002 when it became an embarrassing political liability.

But much more quietly, another Pentagon propaganda arm, the Pentagon Channel, has recently been added as a free channel for American viewers of the Dish Network.

Can a Social Security Channel be far behind?

It is a brilliant strategy.

When the Bush administration isn't using taxpayers' money to buy its own fake news, it does everything it can to shut out and pillory real reporters who might tell Americans what is happening in what is, at least in theory, their own government.

Paul Farhi of The Washington Post discovered that even at an inaugural ball he was assigned "minders" - attractive women who wouldn't give him their full names - to let the revelers know that Big Brother was watching should they be tempted to say anything remotely off message.

The inability of real journalists to penetrate this White House is not all the White House's fault.

The errors of real news organizations have played perfectly into the administration's insidious efforts to blur the boundaries between the fake and the real and thereby demolish the whole notion that there could possibly be an objective and accurate free press.

Conservatives, who supposedly deplore post-modernism, are now welcoming in a brave new world in which it's a given that there can be no empirical reality in news, only the reality you want to hear (or they want you to hear).

The frequent fecklessness of the Beltway gang does little to penetrate this Washington smokescreen.

For a case in point, you needed only switch to CNN on the day after Mr. Olbermann did his fake-news-style story on the fake reporter in the White House press corps.

"Jeff Gannon" had decided to give an exclusive TV interview to a sober practitioner of by-the-book real news, Wolf Blitzer.

Given this journalistic opportunity, the anchor asked questions almost as soft as those "Jeff" himself had asked in the White House.

Mr. Blitzer didn't question Mr. Guckert's outrageous assertion that he adopted a fake name because "Jeff Gannon is easier to pronounce and easier to remember."

(Is "Jeff" easier to pronounce than his real first name, Jim?).

Mr. Blitzer never questioned Gannon/Guckert's assertion that Talon News "is a separate, independent news division" of GOPUSA.

Only in a brief follow-up interview a day later did he ask Gannon/Guckert to explain why he was questioned by the F.B.I. in the case that may send legitimate reporters to jail: Mr. Guckert has at times implied that he either saw or possessed a classified memo identifying Valerie Plame as a C.I.A. operative.

Might that memo have come from the same officials who looked after "Jeff Gannon's" press credentials?

Did Mr. Guckert have any connection with CNN's own Robert Novak, whose publication of Ms. Plame's name started this investigation in the first place?

The anchor didn't go there.

The "real" news from CNN was no news at all, but it's not as if any of its competitors did much better.

The "Jeff Gannon" story got less attention than another media frenzy - that set off by the veteran news executive Eason Jordan, who resigned from CNN after speaking recklessly at a panel discussion at Davos, where he apparently implied, at least in passing, that American troops deliberately targeted reporters.

Is the banishment of a real newsman for behaving foolishly at a bloviation conference in Switzerland a more pressing story than that of a fake newsman gaining years of access to the White House (and network TV cameras) under mysterious circumstances?

With real news this timid, the appointment of Jon Stewart to take over Dan Rather's chair at CBS News could be just the jolt television journalism needs.

As Mr. Olbermann demonstrated when he borrowed a sharp "Daily Show" tool to puncture the "Jeff Gannon" case, the only road back to reality may be to fight fake with fake.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 17 2005, 04:21 PM)
Today was a beautiful day where I am, with a beautiful cobalt-blue sky, and luckily for me, I got to be outside today, so that I could enjoy that sky!

And as I was puttering around out there, a thought came to me that the George W. Bush presidency is like a parody of the Mel Brook's movie, "Blazing Saddles", which itself was a parody of American western movies!

SO!

A parody of a parody, and when I read news articles like this one directly above, that point comes hammering home, where Ahmad Chalabi, the former Bush Co. "REJECT", is now in the running to be Iraq's prime minister, and the hand-picked Bush Co. puppet Allawi appears to be on his way out the door!

What a turn of events, and how typical of a Bush Co. production!

BUT ......

Never a dull moment, and that is for sure!

Take that right to the bank; here, in OUR America!

And for those of you out there who either did not really know who Ahmad Chalabi was, or had forgotten, or just did not care, here's our Ahmad, in all his glory:

"Tinker, Banker, NeoCon, Spy - Ahmed Chalabi's long and winding road from (and to?) Baghdad"

By Robert Dreyfuss
Issue Date: 11.18.02

If T.E. Lawrence ("of Arabia") had been a 21st-century neoconservative operative instead of a British imperial spy, he'd be Ahmed Chalabi's best friend.

Chalabi, the London-based leader of the Iraqi National Congress (INC), is front man for the latest incarnation of a long-time neoconservative strategy to redraw the map of the oil-rich Middle East, put American troops -- and American oil companies -- in full control of the Persian Gulf's reserves and use the Gulf as a fulcrum for enhancing America's global strategic hegemony.

Just as Lawrence's escapades in World War I-era Arabia helped Britain remake the disintegrating Ottoman Empire, the U.S. sponsors of Chalabi's INC hope to do their own nation building.

"The removal of [Saddam Hussein] presents the United States in particular with a historic opportunity that I believe is going to prove to be as large as anything that has happened in the Middle East since the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the entry of British troops into Iraq in 1917," says Kanan Makiya, an INC strategist and author of Republic of Fear.

Chalabi would hand over Iraq's oil to U.S. multinationals, and his allies in conservative think tanks are already drawing up the blueprints.

"What they have in mind is denationalization, and then parceling Iraqi oil out to American oil companies," says James E. Akins, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

Even more broadly, once an occupying U.S. army seizes Baghdad, Chalabi's INC and its American backers are spinning scenarios about dismantling Saudi Arabia, seizing its oil and collapsing the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC).

It's a breathtaking agenda, one that goes far beyond "regime change" and on to the start of a New New World Order.

What's also startling about these plans is that Chalabi is scorned by most of America's national-security establishment, including much of the Department of State, the CIA and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

He is shunned by all Western powers save the United Kingdom, ostracized in the Arab world and disdained even by many of his erstwhile comrades in the Iraqi opposition.

Among his few friends, however, are the men running the Bush administration's willy-nilly war on Iraq.

And with their backing, it's not inconceivable that this hapless, exiled Iraqi aristocrat and London-Washington playboy might end up atop the smoking heap of what's left of Iraq next year.

The Chalabi Lobby

Almost to a man, Washington's hawks lavishly praise Chalabi.

"He's a rare find," says Max Singer, a trustee and co-founder of the Hudson Institute.

"He's deep in the Arab world and at the same time he is fundamentally a man of the West."

In Washington, Team Chalabi is led by Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle, the neoconservative strategist who heads the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board.

Chalabi's partisans run the gamut from far right to extremely far right, with key supporters in most of the Pentagon's Middle-East policy offices -- such as Peter Rodman, Douglas Feith, David Wurmser and Michael Rubin.

Also included are key staffers in Vice President Dick Cheney's office, not to mention Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and former CIA Director Jim Woolsey.

The Washington partisans who want to install Chalabi in Arab Iraq are also those associated with the staunchest backers of Israel, particularly those aligned with the hard-right faction of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Chalabi's cheerleaders include the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP) and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA).

"Chalabi is the one that we know the best," says Shoshana Bryen, director of special projects for JINSA, where Chalabi has been a frequent guest at board meetings, symposia and other events since 1997.

"He could be Iraq's national leader," says Patrick Clawson, deputy director of WINEP, whose board of advisers includes pro-Israeli luminaries such as Perle, Wolfowitz and Martin Peretz of The New Republic.

What makes Chalabi so attractive to the Washington war party?

Most importantly, he's a co-thinker: a mathematician trained at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the University of Chicago and a banker (who years ago hit it off with Albert Wohlstetter, the theorist who was a godfather of the neoconservative movement), a fellow mathematician and a University of Chicago strategist.

In 1985, Wohlstetter (who died in 1997) introduced Chalabi to Perle, then the undersecretary of defense for international-security policy under President Reagan and one of Wohlstetter's leading acolytes.

The two have been close ever since.

In early October, Perle and Chalabi shared a podium at an American Enterprise Institute conference called "The Day After: Planning for a Post-Saddam Iraq," which was held, appropriately enough, in AEI's 12th-floor Wohlstetter Conference Center.

"The Iraqi National Congress has been the philosophical voice of free Iraq for a dozen years," Perle told me.

Philosophical or not, since its founding in 1992, Chalabi's INC has been trying to drag the United States into war with Iraq.

By its very nature, the INC's strategy -- building a paramilitary presence inside Iraq, creating a provisional government, launching attacks on Iraqi cities -- was intended to create inexorable momentum for a war in which in the United States would be compelled to support the INC.

But American policy in the 1990s was focused primarily on containing Saddam Hussein and depriving him of weapons of mass destruction, so the INC's efforts were sidetracked during the Clinton administration.

At the time, most of the national-security establishment saw the INC as weak and ineffectual.

Retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, former head of Central Command for U.S. forces in the Middle East, famously ridiculed Chalabi and company as "silk-suited, Rolex-wearing guys in London," adding, "I don't see any opposition group that has the viability to overthrow Saddam."

Supporting the INC, he warned, meant that "the Bay of Pigs could turn into the Bay of Goats."

And a widely cited 1999 Foreign Affairs article titled "The Rollback Fantasy," lambasted the INC's strategy for a gusano-style offensive by a ragtag army operating out of the so-called no-fly zones in northern and southern Iraq, saying it was "militarily ludicrous and would almost certainly end in either direct American intervention or a massive bloodbath."

Indeed, in 1996 an ill-organized INC offensive in northern Iraq, where Chalabi had assembled about 1,000 fighters, was half-heartedly backed by the CIA.

Not only did Saddam Hussein's troops not defect en masse, as predicted by Chalabi, but one of the INC's key allies, the Kurdistan Democratic Party, chose to ally itself with Baghdad, inviting the Iraqi army back into northern Iraq's Kurdish areas for a mop-up exercise.

Another of the INC's allies, the Iraqi National Accord, apparently blew up the INC's main offices in an act of bloody fratricide.

These tragic failures only increased the distaste for Chalabi at the CIA and among the U.S. military.

Still, Chalabi is a survivor.

Since the 1996 fiasco, he's managed a precarious balance atop a fractious and quarrelsome constellation of Iraqi opposition factions, from Kurds and Shi'a tribal leaders to Islamic fundamentalists, monarchists and military officers.

Our Man in Baghdad

Born in 1945, Chalabi is the scion of a wealthy, oligarchic Shi'a family with close ties to the Hashemite monarchy that was installed in Iraq after World War I by Lawrence, Gertrude Bell and the British imperial authorities.

Chalabi's grandfather served in nine various Iraqi cabinet positions, his father was a cabinet officer and president of the figurehead Iraqi senate, and his mother ran political salons that catered to Iraq's elite.

In 1958 that all came to a crashing end when a coalition of army officers and the Iraqi Communist Party led a revolution that toppled King Faisal II.

The Chalabis scattered.

As a young man Chalabi lived in Jordan, Lebanon, the United Kingdom and the United States, where he attended MIT before earning a doctorate in mathematics at the University of Chicago.

He took a position teaching math at the American University of Beirut.

In 1977, Crown Prince Hassan of Jordan invited Chalabi to Amman to establish the Petra Bank, a financial institution that would soon become the second-largest commercial bank in Jordan.

In an August 1989 episode still surrounded by controversy, however, the government of Jordan seized the Petra Bank under martial law, arresting its chief currency trader and using Jordan's central bank to pump $164 million into the Petra Bank and its allied institutions to keep them liquid.

To avoid arrest, Chalabi fled the country "under mysterious circumstances," according to a 1989 article in the Financial Times.

The Hudson Institute's Max Singer says that Prince Hassan personally drove Chalabi to the Jordanian border, helping him escape.

(According to one account, Chalabi was in the trunk of the car.)

Chalabi eventually was tried in absentia by a Jordanian court and sentenced to 22 years of hard labor for embezzlement, fraud and currency-trading irregularities.

He reportedly got away with more than $70 million.

The INC offers a different version.

According to Zaab Sethna, an INC spokesman, King Hussein of Jordan executed a politically motivated coup against Chalabi in coordination with Iraq because Chalabi was "using the bank to fund [Iraqi] opposition groups and learning a lot about illegal arms transfers to Saddam."

Because the Petra Bank had inside information about Jordanian-Iraqi trade, Chalabi used his position in a freelance, cloak-and-dagger operation to feed intelligence about Iraq's trade deals to the CIA.

Because Chalabi was already active in anti-Iraq opposition groups and had a connection with Perle, it's possible that Chalabi's account is true.

Further evidence of political motives behind the seizure of the Petra Bank and Chalabi's intelligence connections: The American lawyer who represented the Petra Bank's Washington, D.C., subsidiary was former Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger.

And when Chalabi fled the country, anonymous leaflets reportedly circulated linking Chalabi to an alliance with Iraq's Shi'a and with (mostly Shi'a) Iran, all in a vague conspiracy against Iraq and Jordan.

(During the Iran-Iraq war and Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990, Jordan -- always delicately balanced between "Iraq and a hard place," as King Hussein was wont to say -- tilted toward Iraq. Afterward, King Hussein distanced himself from Baghdad and eventually reconciled with Chalabi. The jail sentence for bank fraud stands but reportedly might be lifted soon by Jordan's King Abdullah.)

Of course, the fact that Chalabi may have been prosecuted for political reasons does not mean that he is innocent of embezzlement and fraud.

In any case, allegations of self-dealing have followed him everywhere since.

Puppet Theater

Soon after fleeing Jordan, Chalabi began making the contacts with the CIA that would eventually lead to the INC's founding in 1992.

Meeting first in Vienna, Austria, and then in Salahuddin in northern Iraq, the INC emerged as an umbrella group for the many factions of Iraqi opposition in exile.

In the early 1990s, the CIA spent about $100 million through the INC and its Kurdish allies in the north -- until the fiasco of 1996.

Though the CIA cut off the INC after that, Chalabi was undeterred and went about working with congressional Republicans to pass the Iraq Liberation Act.

That law set up a pool of funds and in-kind contributions for the INC and other opposition forces.

In its implementation, however, the INC has been embroiled in repeated disputes with the State Department over its accounting for funds received.

(In 1999, when asked about secrecy in accounting for certain INC expenditures, Chalabi blurted: "Damn right! It was covert money.")

"He's a criminal banker," says Akins, the former ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

"He's a swindler."

"He's interested in getting money, and I suspect it's all gone into his bank accounts and those of his friends."

Earlier this year, the State Department and the INC were deadlocked over payments to the INC, and the dispute was resolved only when the Pentagon, with its pro-Chalabi group, agreed to take over payments to the INC for the latter's intelligence-gathering work inside Iraq.

Even after 1996, Chalabi continued to insist that Saddam Hussein's government would crumble if the INC, with only limited American backing, were to launch its planned offensive.

In June 1997, Chalabi spoke to JINSA's board, which includes, not surprisingly, Perle, Woolsey and key hard-line backers of Israel such as Jeane Kirkpatrick, Max Kampelman, Eugene Rostow and former Rep. Steve Solarz (D-N.Y.).

"The INC plan for Saddam's overthrow is simple," Chalabi told JINSA.

From its base in northern Iraq, the INC would begin to confront Iraqi forces with only political and logistical support from the United States, including U.S. efforts to "feed, house and otherwise provide for the Iraqi army as it abandons Saddam."

Then, Chalabi concluded, "With U.S. political backing and regional support for a process of gradual encirclement, Saddam can be driven into hiding in Takrit and eventually removed."

That's it.

The idea that ridding Iraq of Saddam Hussein is as easy as that was, of course, ridiculed by virtually all CIA, military and State Department strategists.

But without the ability to commit hundreds of thousands of American troops and a relentless wave of bombing sorties, it was all that Chalabi and his allies had -- until September 11.

Effectively capitalizing on the impact of 9-11, Perle, Woolsey and company began beating the drums for a full-scale war against Iraq.

With President Bush in tow and railing against "the guy who tried to kill my dad," the war party got the upper hand.

According to the latest leaks about U.S. strategy, a war against Iraq now could involve up to 250,000 U.S. troops and would result in an open-ended military occupation of Iraq modeled on the post-World War II occupations of Germany and Japan.

The INC, meanwhile, hopes to ride into Baghdad on American tanks.

Weeks ago the Pentagon began a program to train INC combatants for a coming conflict in Iraq, but its effort fooled no one.

Ousting Saddam Hussein, if it happens, will be the work of U.S. troops, not the INC.

But a Big Brother-style public-relations offensive is being readied, aimed at creating the myth that Iraq has been liberated by an alliance of the United States and the INC.

"I want to create the national story that Iraqis liberated themselves," says WINEP's Clawson.

"It may have no more truth than the idea that the French liberated themselves in World War II."

But, insists Clawson, it's a fiction that will resonate with Iraqis.

Almost no one, not even the INC itself, thinks that Chalabi has any cachet inside Iraq.

Entifadh Qanbar, the earnest, young ex-Iraqi officer who heads the INC's office in Washington, says that Chalabi represents Iraq's "silent majority."

Asked whether people in Baghdad have even heard of Chalabi, Qanbar says:

"They may not know the man."

"But he represents their views."

Others scoff at even that notion.

"It's a formula for setting up a puppet regime," says David Mack, vice president of the Middle East Institute, a former U.S. ambassador to the United Arab Emirates and ex-deputy assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern affairs who's dealt extensively with Iraqi opposition politicians and military officers.

"And we will have responsibility for propping them up for a long, long time to come, possibly with the blood of American soldiers."

But indefinitely propping up an INC-style quisling regime might be exactly what the United States wants, as it would mean that U.S. troops would be occupying Iraq's oil fields for years to come.

Striking Oil

It's hard to overstate the importance of Iraqi oil.

With proven reserves of 112 billion barrels (and many analysts saying that its true reserves are double that), Iraq sits above the second largest supply of oil in the world.

Its crippled industry can produce only 2 million barrels of oil a day at present, but with a modest effort, Iraq's output could soar to as high as 7 million to 8 million barrels per day by decade's end.

Controlling that much oil would give the United States enormous leverage over Europe and Japan, which depend heavily on Gulf oil; over Russia, whose economy is hinged to the price of its oil exports, which could be manipulated by an American-run Iraq; and over Saudi Arabia, whose regime's survival is linked to oil.

"The American oil companies are going to be the main beneficiaries of this war," says Akins.

"We take over Iraq, install our regime, produce oil at the maximum rate and tell Saudi Arabia to go to hell."

"It's probably going to spell the end of OPEC," says JINSA's Bryen.

The INC is quietly courting the American oil companies.

In mid-October, Chalabi had a series of meetings with three major U.S. oil firms in Washington.

"The oil people are naturally nervous," says INC spokesman Zaab Sethna, who took part in the meetings between Chalabi and the oil executives.

"We've had discussions with them, but they're not in the habit of going around talking about them."

That's true.

In interviews, oil company officials speak cautiously and only on background about Iraq, laughing nervously at the idea of being quoted.

They are extremely wary of associating themselves with the INC or with U.S. war plans for fear of angering Saudi Arabia and other oil-producing countries in the Persian Gulf.

Asked about talks with the INC, one U.S. oil executive blanched, saying, "I can't discuss that, even on background."

But the untold riches that lie beneath the soil of Iraq are a powerful lure for multinational oil companies.

"I would say that especially the U.S. oil companies ... look forward to the idea that Iraq will be open for business," says an executive from one of the world's largest oil companies, adding that the companies are trying hard not to be noticed.

"We don't have a stake in Iraq now," says another oil industry executive.

"One of the frustrations that U.S. oil companies have is that the Russians, the French and the Chinese already have existing relations with Iraq."

"And the question is: How much of that will be sanctified by the people who succeed Saddam?"

The INC and its backers make no bones about the fact that the American forces gathering to attack Iraq will be liberating Iraq's oil.

Unable to restrain himself, Chalabi blurted to The Washington Post that the INC intends to reward its American friends.

"American companies will have a big shot at Iraqi oil," he proclaimed.

Meanwhile, economists allied with the INC -- including strategists at the Heritage Foundation, the AEI and JINSA -- are abuzz with plans to "denationalize" the Iraqi oil industry and then distribute it to Western, mostly American, companies.

In late September, in "The Future of a Post-Saddam Iraq: A Blueprint for American Involvement," the Heritage Foundation's Ariel Cohen put forward a nearly complete scheme for the privatization of Iraq's oil, creating three separate companies for southern Iraq, the region around Baghdad and the Kirkuk fields in northern Iraq, with additional companies to operate pipelines and refineries and to develop Iraq's natural gas.

In an interview, Cohen warned that France, Russia and China might find that their existing oil contracts with Iraq won't be honored by the INC.

"It will be up to the next government of Iraq to examine the legal validity of the deals signed by the Saddam regime," says Cohen.

"From a realpolitik point of view, these governments should try to get in early with the Iraqi National Congress and abandon Saddam."

"The window of opportunity is closing."

It's hard to imagine that a regime that denationalized Iraq's oil would be very popular with Iraqis.

The nationalization, which took place between 1972 and 1974, electrified Iraqis and stunned the industry worldwide.

It also set dominoes falling throughout the Persian Gulf and the OPEC nations, as other countries ousted the multinationals and created state-owned enterprises.

Eventually, even Saudi Arabia seized control of all-powerful Aramco, the consortium of Exxon, Mobil, Texaco and Chevron that had long been the colossus of the Persian Gulf.

Now, cautiously, the oil industry sees a war in Iraq as a way to win back what's been lost.

"Even in Saudi Arabia, all we can do is buy their oil," says an American oil company official. U.S. companies, this executive confirmed, want to return to greater direct control, perhaps through so-called production-sharing agreements that would give them both a direct stake in the oil fields and a greater share of the profits.

It's also clear that the INC, the neoconservatives and oil executives are thinking beyond Iraq to Saudi Arabia.

Ever since Robert W. Tucker wrote an article in Commentary in the 1970s proposing a U.S. occupation of Saudi Arabia's oil fields, such a scenario has been a cherished vision for a small but growing circle of strategists.

(Last summer Perle invited a RAND Corporation analyst to speak to the Defense Policy Board on exactly that topic.)

Earlier this year, in an article titled "Free the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia," Singer suggested that the United States should help create a Muslim Republic of East Arabia.

"I meant it seriously," says Singer.

"Saudi Arabia is vulnerable not only to a U.S. seizure of their land but to U.S. unofficial participation in a rebellion by minority Shi'a in the Eastern Province."

The Eastern Province, which is largely Shi'a, happens to include the vast bulk of Saudi Arabia's oil fields.

One other problem is that the INC does not represent the entire Iraqi opposition movement.

The two main Kurdish parties, the Kurdistan Democratic Party and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, though long-time bloody rivals, have momentarily patched things up.

They've allied, in turn, with the Iraqi National Accord, a CIA-backed group of former Iraqi military officers, and with the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq to form the Group of Four, an alternative to the INC that, they hope, will attract further American support.

There is even a monarchist group trying to restore T.E. Lawrence's Hashemite kingdom in Baghdad that, some say, could promote a kingship in Iraq for Prince Hassan of Jordan, a Hashemite himself.

Do these strategic realities, and the wide ridicule of Chalabi among Middle East experts, matter?

"I don't think their point of view is relevant to the debate any longer," says Danielle Pletka, vice president of the American Enterprise Institute.

"Sor-ry!"

Thanks to the "entire vast army [of neoconservatives]" who've successfully won over Bush and Cheney, she observes, the INC has something that the other groups lack: the support of the president of the United States.

Robert Dreyfuss
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 17 2005, 06:25 PM)
And for those of you out there who either did not really know who Ahmad Chalabi was, or had forgotten, or just did not care, here's our Ahmad, in all his glory:

"Tinker, Banker, NeoCon, Spy - Ahmed Chalabi's long and winding road from (and to?) Baghdad"

By Robert Dreyfuss
Issue Date: 11.18.02

If T.E. Lawrence ("of Arabia") had been a 21st-century neoconservative operative instead of a British imperial spy, he'd be Ahmed Chalabi's best friend.

Chalabi, the London-based leader of the Iraqi National Congress (INC), is front man for the latest incarnation of a long-time neoconservative strategy to redraw the map of the oil-rich Middle East, put American troops -- and American oil companies -- in full control of the Persian Gulf's reserves and use the Gulf as a fulcrum for enhancing America's global strategic hegemony.

Just as Lawrence's escapades in World War I-era Arabia helped Britain remake the disintegrating Ottoman Empire, the U.S. sponsors of Chalabi's INC hope to do their own nation building.

Chalabi would hand over Iraq's oil to U.S. multinationals, and his allies in conservative think tanks are already drawing up the blueprints.

"What they have in mind is denationalization, and then parceling Iraqi oil out to American oil companies," says James E. Akins, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

Even more broadly, once an occupying U.S. army seizes Baghdad, Chalabi's INC and its American backers are spinning scenarios about dismantling Saudi Arabia, seizing its oil and collapsing the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC).

It's a breathtaking agenda, one that goes far beyond "regime change" and on to the start of a New New World Order.

What's also startling about these plans is that Chalabi is scorned by most of America's national-security establishment, including much of the Department of State, the CIA and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

He is shunned by all Western powers save the United Kingdom, ostracized in the Arab world and disdained even by many of his erstwhile comrades in the Iraqi opposition.

Among his few friends, however, are the men running the Bush administration's willy-nilly war on Iraq.

And with their backing, it's not inconceivable that this hapless, exiled Iraqi aristocrat and London-Washington playboy might end up atop the smoking heap of what's left of Iraq next year.

And here is another view of Mr. Ahmad Chalabi, with some further interesting quotes in it as to who in Washington, D.C. was into this Chalabi fellow's pocket, or, rather, who in Washington was supporting this guy to be the new head of Iraq at the time the Bush Co. Holy War to steal Iraq's oil was just beginning to heat up:

"Ahmed Chalabi" From SourceWatch, a project of the Center for Media and Democracy

Dr. Ahmed Chalabi (also spelled "Ahmad") is part of a three-man leadership council for the Iraqi opposition group, the Iraqi National Congress (INC), which was created at the behest of the U.S. government for the purpose of fomenting the overthrow of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.

Chalabi, a secular Iraqi Shiite Muslim and mathematician by training, previously served as chairman of the Petra Bank in Jordan, where he engaged in various cloak-and-dagger operations that ended abruptly in August 1989 when he fled the country "under mysterious circumstances" and in 1992 was convicted in absentia for embezzlement, fraud and currency-trading irregularities, sentencing him to 22 years' hard labour.

[1] http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/pri...reyfuss-r.html;

[2] http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/081903J.shtml

In August 2003 a petition was circulating among Jordanian deputies to hold a special session soon in the 110-member house to demand the government take legal steps to seek Chalabi's extradition from Iraq.

[3] http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/081903J.shtml

During 2004 Chalabi's influence with the U.S. has waned to the point where government funding for him is likely to be discontinued.

History

In March 2002, Seymour Hersh reported in The New Yorker that "A dispute over Chalabi's potential usefulness preoccupies the bureaucracy" within the U.S. government, "as the civilian leadership in the Pentagon continues to insist that only the INC can lead the opposition."

"At the same time, a former Administration official told me, 'Everybody but the Pentagon and the office of the Vice-President wants to ditch the INC.'"

"The INC's critics note that Chalabi, despite years of effort and millions of dollars in American aid, is intensely unpopular today among many elements in Iraq."

"'If Chalabi is the guy, there could be a civil war after Saddam's overthrow,' one former CIA operative told me."

"A former high-level Pentagon official added, 'There are some things that a President can't order up, and an internal opposition is one.'"

[4] http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?020311fa_FACT

Notwithstanding these concerns, Hersh reported that "INC supporters in and around the Administration, including Paul Dundes Wolfowitz and Richard Perle, believe, like Chalabi, that any show of force would immediately trigger a revolt against Saddam within Iraq, and that it would quickly expand."

In December 2002, Robert Dreyfuss reported that the administration of George Walker Bush actually preferred INC-supplied analyses of Iraq over analyses provided by long-standing analysts within the CIA.

"Even as it prepares for war against Iraq, the Pentagon is already engaged on a second front: its war against the Central Intelligence Agency," he wrote.

"The Pentagon is bringing relentless pressure to bear on the agency to produce intelligence reports more supportive of war with Iraq."

"... Morale inside the U.S. national-security apparatus is said to be low, with career staffers feeling intimidated and pressured to justify the push for war."

Much of the pro-war faction's information came from the INC, even though "most Iraq hands with long experience in dealing with that country's tumultuous politics consider the INC's intelligence-gathering abilities to be nearly nil."

"... The Pentagon's critics are appalled that intelligence provided by the INC might shape U.S. decisions about going to war against Baghdad."

"At the CIA and at the State Department, Ahmed Chalabi, the INC's leader, is viewed as the ineffectual head of a self-inflated and corrupt organization skilled at lobbying and public relations, but not much else."

[5] http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/pri...dreyfuss-r.html

"The [INC's] intelligence isn't reliable at all," said Vincent Cannistraro, a former senior CIA official and counterterrorism expert.

"Much of it is propaganda."

"Much of it is telling the Defense Department what they want to hear."

"And much of it is used to support Chalabi's own presidential ambitions."

"They make no distinction between intelligence and propaganda, using alleged informants and defectors who say what Chalabi wants them to say, [creating] cooked information that goes right into presidential and vice-presidential speeches."

[6] http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/pri...dreyfuss-r.html

In February 2003, as the Bush administration neared the end of its preparations for war, an internal fight erupted over INC's plan to actually become the government of Iraq after the U.S. invasion.

Chalabi wanted to "declare a provisional government when the war starts," a plan that "alienated some of Mr Chalabi's most enthusiastic backers in the Pentagon and in Congress, who fear the announcement of a provisional government made up of exiles would split anti-Saddam sentiment inside Iraq."

[7] http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/st...,899944,00.html

"What he did was pander to the dreams of a group of powerful men, centered in the Pentagon, the Defense Policy Board, the vice president's office, and various think tanks scattered around Washington,² according to Thomas Engelhardt, a New York writer who produces a daily web log on the war.

The thing that needs to be grasped here is that since 1991 these men have been dreaming up a storm about reconfiguring the Middle East, while scaling the heavens (via various Star Wars programs for the militarization of space), and so nailing down an American earth for eternity.

Their dreams were utopian and so, by definition, unrealizable.

Theirs were lava dreams, and they were dreamt, like all such burning dreams, without much reference to the world out there.

They were perfect pickings for a Chalabi.

Of course, the fact that Chalabi is now scarcely mentioned as a possible political force in Iraq is barely acknowledged by the hawks who still insist, albeit with less conviction, that things are going their way and that there is no reason to panic.

--Jim Lobe, 11 July 2003

[8] http://www.domino.ips.org/ips%\eng.ns.../?OpenDocument)

In July 2003 Chalabi was one of nine Iraqi Governing Council members chosen to serve as president for a month of the U.S.- backed, self-rule body.

[9] http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/081903J.shtml

Chalabi even participated in a secret Defense Policy Board meeting just a few days after the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and the Pentagon in which the main topic of discussion, according to the 'Wall Street Journal', was how 9/11 could be used as a pretext for attacking Iraq.

[10] http://ipsnews.net/print.asp?idnews=22509

Jim Lobe reports on 20 Februrary 2004 to IPS that "It appears that Chalabi, whose family, it was reported this week, has extensive interests in a company that has already been awarded more than 400 million dollars in reconstruction contracts, is signalling his willingness to take all of the blame, or credit, for the faulty intelligence."

[11] http://ipsnews.net/print.asp?idnews=22509

"in April, 2003, Jay Garner let it slip to some of his staff that his charge was to turn Iraq over to Ahmad Chalabi within six months."

[12] http://www.progressivetrail.org/articles/041002Cole.shtml

External links

Interview with Michael Rubin, "Ahmad Chalabi: 'The Biggest Error Was Occupation' http://www.meforum.org/article/626," Middle East Quarterly, Summer 2004.

"An Interview with Dr. Ahmad Chalabi"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...ws/chalabi.html, from "Frontline: The Survival of Saddam," PBS, January 25, 2000.

Robert Dreyfuss, Tinker, Banker, NeoCon, Spy. Ahmed Chalabi's long and winding road from (and to?) Baghdad http://www.prospect.org/print/V13/21/dreyfuss-r.html, The American Prospect, November 18, 2002.

Warren P. Strobel, "Plan to give Iraqi exiles big role spurs feud" http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/new...raq/5493219.htm, Mercury News, March 27, 2003.

Christophe Boltanski, "How the Dissidents Fooled the Washington Hawks" http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/printer_040603D.shtml, La Liberation, April 1, 2003.

Eric Schmitt and Steven R. Weisman, U.S. to Recruit Iraqi Civilians to Interim Posts

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/11/internat.../11POST.html?th,

The New York Times, April 10, 2003. Numerous references to Chalabi.

"Fresh bank scandals hit Iraq's leader in waiting" http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/17/1050172708630.html, Sydney Morning Herald, 18 April 2003.

Marian Wilkinson and Peter Fray, "The thief of Baghdad" http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/09/1052280437666.html, Sydney Morning Herald, May 9, 2003.

Jim Lobe, "Analysis: Anatomy of a Quack-Mire" http://commondreams.org/views03/0711-12.htm, Inter Press Service, July 11, 2003.

"War, Truth and Consequences" http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/truth, PBS Frontline, October 9, 2003, includes a lengthy interview with Chalabi.

Knut Royce, Start-up Company With Connections. U.S. gives $400M in work to contractor with ties to Pentagon favorite on Iraqi Governing Council http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/na...,0,735950.story, Newsday, February 15, 2004:

"... to a start-up company that has extensive family and, according to court documents, business ties to Ahmed Chalabi, ... The most recent contract, for $327 million to supply equipment for the Iraqi Armed Forces, was awarded last month and drew an immediate challenge from a losing contester, who said the winning bid was so low that it questions the 'credibility' of that bid."

"Iraq's Chalabi Says 'Blame CIA, Not Me' About WMD" http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?t...storyID=4510118, Reuters, March 5, 2004.

Isabel Hilton, "Ready to rule, despite his errors" (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/03/09/1078594360097.html, Sydney Morning Herald, March 10, 2004.

Tabassum Zakaria, "Exile group still on US payroll" http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/...8594496135.html, The Age, March 12, 2004:

"The US is still paying the Iraqi National Congress exile group, headed by Ahmed Chalabi, about $US340,000 ($A450,000) a month for intelligence - despite internal government reviews finding that much of the intelligence provided before the war was faulty or even fabricated..."

Dexter Filkins, "Chalabi, Nimble Exile, Searches for Role in Iraq" http://nytimes.com/2004/03/26/internationa...ast/26CHAL.html, New York Times, March 26, 2004.

Mark Hosenball and Michael Hirsh, "Chalabi: A Questionable Use of U.S. Funding" http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4615823/, Newsweek, April 5, 2004:

"Under investigation: Congress is examining whether Ahmad Chalabi inappropriately used U.S. taxpayer dollars to prod America towards war in Iraq."

Timothy M. Phelps, "U.S. backing knocked" http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wo...dnews-headlines, New York Newsday, April 22, 2004.

Kenneth Pollack, a former Clinton administration official and one of the most prominent Democrats to support the war in Iraq, told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee yesterday that it was a 'disgrace' that the United States 'continues to push [Ahmed Chalabi] the way we do' for a leadership position in Iraq. Committee Chairman Richard Lugar (R-Ind.) and Vice Chairman Joseph Biden (D-Del.) said they agreed with Pollack."

"Transcript: Ahmed Chalabi on Fox" http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118087,00.html 'Fox News Sunday', April 25, 2004.

Robin Wright and Walter Pincus, "Washington's chosen ones face the axe" http://www.smh.com.au/text/articles/2004/0...2831438483.html, Sydney Morning Herald, April 26, 2004.

(This is a syndicated story originally published in the Washington Post).

"Chalabi says no to U.N. oversight "
http://washingtontimes.com/world/20040428-092502-4081r.htm, Washington Times, April 29, 2004.

Joshua Micah Marshall, More on Chalabi http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/...5_02.php#002902,

Talking Points Memo, May 2, 2004.

Mark Hosenball, "Intelligence: A Double Game" http://msnbc.msn.com/ID/4881157/, Newsweek, May 10, 2004.

Andrew Cockburn, "The Truth About Ahmed Chalabi http://www.counterpunch.org/chalabi05202004.html, Counterpunch, May 20, 2004.

Retrieved from http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Ahmed_Chalabi
Abu Beacon
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 17 2005, 07:25 PM)
And for those of you out there who either did not really know who Ahmad Chalabi was, or had forgotten, or just did not care, here's our Ahmad, in all his glory:

"Tinker, Banker, NeoCon, Spy - Ahmed Chalabi's long and winding road from (and to?) Baghdad"

By Robert Dreyfuss
Issue Date: 11.18.02

If T.E. Lawrence ("of Arabia") had been a 21st-century neoconservative operative instead of a British imperial spy, he'd be Ahmed Chalabi's best friend.

Chalabi, the London-based leader of the Iraqi National Congress (INC), is front man for the latest incarnation of a long-time neoconservative strategy to redraw the map of the oil-rich Middle East, put American troops -- and American oil companies -- in full control of the Persian Gulf's reserves and use the Gulf as a fulcrum for enhancing America's global strategic hegemony.



Chalabi would hand over Iraq's oil to U.S. multinationals, and his allies in conservative think tanks are already drawing up the blueprints.

"What they have in mind is denationalization, and then parceling Iraqi oil out to American oil companies," says James E. Akins, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

Even more broadly, once an occupying U.S. army seizes Baghdad, Chalabi's INC and its American backers are spinning scenarios about dismantling Saudi Arabia, seizing its oil and collapsing the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC).

It's a breathtaking agenda, one that goes far beyond "regime change" and on to the start of a New New World Order.

What's also startling about these plans is that Chalabi is scorned by most of America's national-security establishment, including much of the Department of State, the CIA and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Among his few friends, however, are the men running the Bush administration's willy-nilly war on Iraq.

And with their backing, it's not inconceivable that this hapless, exiled Iraqi aristocrat and London-Washington playboy might end up atop the smoking heap of what's left of Iraq next year.


Almost to a man, Washington's hawks lavishly praise Chalabi.

."

In Washington, Team Chalabi is led by Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle, the neoconservative strategist who heads the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board.

Chalabi's partisans run the gamut from far right to extremely far right, with key supporters in most of the Pentagon's Middle-East policy offices -- such as Peter Rodman, Douglas Feith, David Wurmser and Michael Rubin.

In early October, Perle and Chalabi shared a podium at an American Enterprise Institute conference called "The Day After: Planning for a Post-Saddam Iraq," which was held, appropriately enough, in AEI's 12th-floor Wohlstetter Conference Center.


."

The Eastern Province, which is largely Shi'a, happens to include the vast bulk of Saudi Arabia's oil fields.

Robert Dreyfuss
*



That is an in depth article.

When the Iraq war started, almost everyone knew that the bottom line was oil.

As other issues crept in, the " invasion for oil " belief was pushed into the background.

But -----the motive for the war never really changed. It was ALWAYS about the oil, and this article brings us back to reality.

How slippery is this administration? Coming up with a reason of the month for attacking Iraq.

If you can't beat them, confuse them ."

They did that well with with 51% of the voters.

Thanks for bringing the true story back into the limelight again, Livyjr.

A.B.
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Abu Beacon @ Feb 17 2005, 06:04 PM)
That is an in depth article.

When the Iraq war started, almost everyone knew that the bottom line was oil.

As other issues crept in, the " invasion for oil " belief was pushed into the background.

But -----the motive for the war never really changed. It was ALWAYS about the oil, and this article brings us back to reality.

*

Originally, the Iraq invasion was to be called "Operation Iraqi Liberation"

Until somebody figured out that the acronym was O.I.L.
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Feb 17 2005, 07:29 PM)
Originally, the Iraq invasion was to be called "Operation Iraqi Liberation"

Until somebody figured out that the acronym was O.I.L.

jeffmoskin, you are sharp as a tack, and let there be no doubts about that!

SO?

What did they change the words to, to get this present acronym of O.O.F.?

Or is it O.O.P.S.?

Or W.H.O.O.P.S.?

Drat this old age!

Never can keep anything straight anymore!

Of course, though, in an environment of lies, 24/7, in which we now find ourselves immersed, thanks to the Bush Co., WHAT IS STRAIGHT ANYMORE?

And where has the truth gone?

And not to Washington, D.C., that is for sure!

They wouldn't know the truth down in that place if it came right up and bit them hard on the backside!
Livyjr
And somewhere along the line here, I want to get back to the "American Creed" which jeffmoskin posted in here a while back, but right now the "HOT" story has to do with this alleged "tort reform" legislation that George W. Bush in essence snuck through OUR Congress, and which he is supposed to sign, later today, limiting OUR rights, as American citizens, to seek redress in the courts of this nation, as is OUR Constitutional right!

And without further ado, here is that story:

Politics

"Final OK for class-action lawsuit changes - Congress sends bill to Bush for his signature"

Updated: 5:16 p.m. ET Feb. 17, 2005

WASHINGTON - Congress on Thursday passed legislation that would transfer most large, multistate class action lawsuits to federal court, fulfilling one of President Bush’s second-term goals.

The aim of the bill was to protect businesses and stop lawyers from reaping huge profits by filing suits in carefully selected state courts.

The legislation, given final congressional approval by the House on a 279-149 vote, would ban state courts from hearing large multistate class action lawsuits.

Such courts have been known for issuing multimillion-dollar verdicts like they did against tobacco companies.

After the bill becomes law, cases against corporations and businesses accused of wrongdoing against large groups of people will be heard by federal judges.

Critics have said these jurists are not as amenable as are their state counterparts to these cases, which often involve millions of dollars.

The Senate passed the bill Feb. 10.

Bush is expected to sign the bill into law on Friday.

Bush and other Republicans have been pushing for changes in the legal system for years.

They argue that greedy lawyers have taken advantage of the state class action lawsuit system by filing frivolous lawsuits in certain state courts where they know they can win big dollar verdicts.

Meanwhile, those lawyers’ clients get only small sums or coupons giving them discounts for the products of the company they just sued, lawmakers said.

“Frivolous lawsuits are clogging America’s judicial system, endangering America’s small businesses, jeopardizing jobs and driving up prices for consumers,” said House Majority Whip Roy Blunt, R-Mo.

Moving those cases to federal court will ensure that state judges will no longer “routinely approve settlements in which the lawyers receive large fees and the class members receive virtually nothing,” he added.

Companies in response have had to cut back on their activities to defend those lawsuits, and have had to raise prices on products to recoup their costs, Republicans said.

“These out-of-control class action lawsuits are killing jobs, they’re hurting small business people who can’t afford to defend themselves and they’re hurting consumers who have to pay more for products,” said Rep. Ric Keller, R-Fla.

Democrats argued that the main goal of Republicans was to hurt trial lawyers who donate heavily to the Democratic Party and to help big business escape multimillion-dollar verdicts from state courts.

“This bill is the Vioxx protection bill, it is the Wal-Mart protection bill, it is the Tyco protection bill and it is the Enron protection bill,” said Rep. Jay Inslee, D-Wash.

They tried to scuttle the legislation by offering an amendment rewriting the bill and trying to force it back to committee, but Republicans voted those efforts down.

The legislation is “a payback to big business at the expense of consumers,” House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California said.

Federal courts are expected to allow fewer large class action lawsuits to go forward, which Democrats say means more businesses will get away with wrongdoing and fewer ordinary people will be protected.

“It’s the final payback to the tobacco industry, to the asbestos industry, to the oil industry, to the chemical industry at the expense of ordinary families who need to be able go to court to protect their loved ones when their health has been compromised,” said Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass.

“And these people are saying that your state isn’t smart enough, your jurors aren’t smart enough” to hear those cases.

The legislation would affect only cases that are filed after the president signs it into law.

Cases already in court could go forward in their current courts.

For example, Vioxx cases already being heard in courts, where people assert that the drug causes problems ranging from stroke to irregular heartbeat to heart attack, would not be affected.

Under the legislation, class-action suits seeking $5 million or more would be heard in state court if the primary defendant and more than one-third of the plaintiffs are from the same state.

But if fewer than one-third of the plaintiffs are from the same state as the primary defendant, the case would go to federal court.

The bill also would limit lawyers’ fees in so-called coupon settlements — when plaintiffs get discounts on products instead of financial settlements — by linking the fees to the coupon’s redemption rate or the actual hours spent working on a case.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Feb 18 2005, 08:08 AM)
And somewhere along the line here, I want to get back to the "American Creed" which jeffmoskin posted in here a while back, but right now the "HOT" story has to do with this alleged "tort reform" legislation that George W. Bush in essence snuck through OUR Congress, and which he is supposed to sign, later today, limiting OUR rights, as American citizens, to seek redress in the courts of this nation, as is OUR Constitutional right!

And without further ado, here is that story:

Politics

"Final OK for class-action lawsuit changes - Congress sends bill to Bush for his signature"

Updated: 5:16 p.m. ET Feb. 17, 2005

WASHINGTON - Congress on Thursday passed legislation that would transfer most large, multistate class action lawsuits to federal court, fulfilling one of President Bush’s second-term goals.

The aim of the bill was to protect businesses and stop lawyers from reaping huge profits by filing suits in carefully selected state courts.

The legislation, given final congressional approval by the House on a 279-149 vote, would ban state courts from hearing large multistate class action lawsuits.

Such courts have been known for issuing multimillion-dollar verdicts like they did against tobacco companies.

After the bill becomes law, cases against corporations and businesses accused of wrongdoing against large groups of people will be heard by federal judges.

Bush and other Republicans have been pushing for changes in the legal system for years.

They argue that greedy lawyers have taken advantage of the state class action lawsuit system by filing frivolous lawsuits in certain state courts where they know they can win big dollar verdicts.

“Frivolous lawsuits are clogging America’s judicial system, endangering America’s small businesses, jeopardizing jobs and driving up prices for consumers,” said House Majority Whip Roy Blunt, R-Mo.

Moving those cases to federal court will ensure that state judges will no longer “routinely approve settlements in which the lawyers receive large fees and the class members receive virtually nothing,” he added.

“These out-of-control class action lawsuits are killing jobs, they’re hurting small business people who can’t afford to defend themselves and they’re hurting consumers who have to pay more for products,” said Rep. Ric Keller, R-Fla.

Democrats argued that the main goal of Republicans was to hurt trial lawyers who donate heavily to the Democratic Party and to help big business escape multimillion-dollar verdicts from state courts.

“This bill is the Vioxx protection bill, it is the Wal-Mart protection bill, it is the Tyco protection bill and it is the Enron protection bill,” said Rep. Jay Inslee, D-Wash.

The legislation is “a payback to big business at the expense of consumers,” House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California said.

Federal courts are expected to allow fewer large class action lawsuits to go forward, which Democrats say means more businesses will get away with wrongdoing and fewer ordinary people will be protected.

“It’s the final payback to the tobacco industry, to the asbestos industry, to the oil industry, to the chemical industry at the expense of ordinary families who need to be able go to court to protect their loved ones when their health has been compromised,” said Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass.

“And these people are saying that your state isn’t smart enough, your jurors aren’t smart enough” to hear those cases.

The Star Chamber!

That's what this story above about this Bush Co. "tort reform" reminds me of, listening to the language of his Republican stooges in OUR Congress as they explain this need to strip us further of OUR rights which were won for us by OUR forefathers in liberty at the start of this nation's history in 1776!

And no, I don't mean a movie, I mean the Star Chamber courts under the corrupt English kings, whose yoke of tyranny OUR forefathers in liberty threw off beginning in 1776!

Unfortunately, that yoke of tyranny was not apparently thrown far enough, because George W. Bush appears to have found it again, and is now assuming that IT IS HIS, to use against US!

English History

"The Court of Star Chamber 1487-1641"

The Court of Star Chamber was a court of law which evolved from meetings of the king's royal council.

Although its roots go back to the medieval period, the court only became powerful as a separate entity during the reign of Henry VII.

In 1487 the court became a judicial body separate from the king's council, with a mandate to hear petitions of redress.

Star-Chamber - The Facts

The Court of Star Chamber was named for the star pattern painted on the ceiling of the room at Westminster Palace where its meetings were held.

In a sense the court was a supervisory body; its members oversaw the operations of lower courts.

As well, its members could hear cases by direct appeal.

Members of the court were either privy councillors (i.e. members of the king's advisory body) or judges drawn from the courts of common law.

The mandate of the court expanded under the Tudors to include instances of public disorder.

Judges would receive petitions involving property rights, public corruption, trade and government administration, and disputes arising from land enclosures.

Although the court was initially a court of appeal, Henry VIII and his councillors Wolsey and Cranmer encouraged plaintiffs to bring their cases directly to the Star Chamber, bypassing the lower courts entirely.

Although the court could order torture, prison, and fines, it did not have the power to impose the death sentence.

Under the Tudors, Star Chamber sessions were public.

The power of the court of Star Chamber grew considerably under the Stuarts, and by the time of Charles I, it had become a byword for misuse and abuse of power by the king and his circle.

James I and his son Charles used the court to examine cases of sedition, which, in practice, meant that the court could be used to suppress opposition to royal policies.

It became used to try nobles too powerful to be brought to trial in the lower courts.

Court sessions were held in secret, with no right of appeal, and punishment was swift and severe to any enemy of the crown.

Charles I used the Court of Star Chamber as a sort of Parliamentary substitute during the years 1628-40, when he refused to call Parliament.

Finally, in 1641 the Long Parliament abolished the hated Star Chamber, though its name survives still to designate arbitrary, secretive proceedings in opposition to personal rights and liberty.

http://www.britainexpress.com/History/tudor/star-chamber.htm
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Feb 13 2005, 10:28 AM)
Thanks for the link, Livyjr.

But Mr. Rheingold goes on to say some words that are disturbing to me.

"Today, a small number of broadband Internet providers, such as Comcast and Viacom, are pushing for regulations that would enable them to pick and choose the content that travels over their part of the network."

"The courts also are coming to bear in this fight, as companies work to extend copyright far beyond its original intent and establish digital rights schemes that make it difficult to produce or distribute digital content not authorized by the entertainment industry."

"The consolidation of media ownership in the hands of a small number of individuals or cartels—who exchange political funding for legislative and regulatory favors—is being fought by organizations such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation."

"But activists who have not been involved in technology or media issues need to join in this battle, because communication media under dispute are profoundly political tools."

"In coming decades, Internet-based media will exert more and more influence over what people know and believe and how they can organize and assemble for collective action."

We cannot allow the greedy corporations to throw an electronic monkey wench into this new electronic printing press.

And it appears that the theme right now today in here, is creeping servitude to a tyrannical "MASTER", or "OVERLORD", which well might be the thuggish Republican Party, and its "component parts", here in OUR America:

washingtonpost.com Highlights

"Mergers raise concerns over Internet access - Organizations to press for conditions on telecommunications deals"

By Jonathan Krim

Updated: 5:36 a.m. ET Feb. 16, 2005

WASHINGTON - On the surface, the frenzy of telecommunications mergers in the past few weeks raises relatively clear-cut questions for lawmakers and regulators who will be weighing the deals:

Will consumers and businesses be harmed if long-distance choices disappear when AT&T and MCI are swallowed by telephone giants SBC and Verizon?

In many parts of the country, the mergers would mean that two of the top three providers of long-distance telephone service are combining, leaving one overwhelmingly dominant player.

Ordinarily, such corporate marriages have trouble getting approved.

But several experts said they expect as many questions to be raised about whether the phone giants would gain too much power over access to the Internet, especially for large businesses.

Worried representatives of large businesses and consumer groups said they will begin sounding the alarm, at the Federal Communications Commission, the Justice Department and on Capitol Hill.

So far, there is no organized group calling for the rejection of Verizon Communications Inc.'s buyout of MCI Inc. or SBC Communications Inc.'s purchase of AT&T Corp.

Instead, in a process that could last a year or more, several organizations said they will press regulators to place conditions on the mergers to help ensure robust Internet competition.

State public-utility officials also intend to play a role.

The focus on Internet services, as well as on long-distance calling, is testimony to the breathtaking changes in the communications landscape over the past several years.

For many consumers, wireless service is a substitute for traditional local and long-distance phone service.

Under the administration of outgoing FCC Chairman Michael K. Powell, phone line discounts were eliminated, making it difficult for companies such as MCI, AT&T and smaller players to offer local service over local phone company lines.

Meanwhile, the local phone giants were allowed to enter the long-distance market.

Together, these government moves caused the MCIs and AT&Ts of the world to begin withdrawing from serving residential customers.

As a result, experts said, regulators would be hard-pressed to reject mergers that eliminated local phone service competitors that already had decided to leave the market because of government policies.

But MCI and AT&T are major providers of "Internet backbone," the large pipes that carry data around the world in the same way that interstate highways are the arteries for long-distance car traffic.

In the Internet world, local or regional networks allow businesses, institutions and consumers to get to the main Internet pipes.

These networks often are owned by the local phone companies, which charge for access to the backbone.

The fees charged for those connections are rising and have been the subject of "a running gunfight for years," said Brian R. Moir, president of the E-Commerce & Telecommunications Users Group, which represents large industries and institutions such as universities that send and receive huge volumes of Internet traffic.

With the prospect of Verizon and SBC owning two of the biggest backbone providers in AT&T and MCI, Moir said, his members fear a possible squeeze.

The FCC decided in January to review those connection rates, which Moir said should be part of any merger examination.

Moreover, he said, whereas AT&T, MCI and the large local phone carrier in a given region once would bid on providing long-distance and data services for large businesses or government agencies, there would now be one fewer bidder.

The danger, Moir and others said, is that SBC and Verizon could use their ability to bundle soup-to-nuts telecommunications services for businesses in ways that could make it impossible for rivals to compete.

At the moment, there is so much backbone capacity that prices are falling.

And there are several other backbone providers.

But if the mergers are approved, "Verizon and SBC are well-positioned to dominate and make it more difficult for other backbone providers to offer packages of services," said Gene Kimmelman, head of the Washington office of Consumers Union.

Michael E. Glover, a Verizon attorney, responded that the acquisition of MCI would allow his firm to compete for global business with AT&T for the first time.

He also disputed Moir's assertions that network connection costs are going up.

Blair Levin, a former FCC official and now a telecommunications analyst for the investment firm Legg Mason, agreed that integrated phone and Internet backbone giants could jeopardize competition.

"You can do bundling so it can be discriminatory," he said.

Levin added that regulators might look closely at whether AT&T, for example, should be forced to give up some local facilities that allow customers to connect directly to its backbone.

The recent mergers, which also include a proposed combination of Nextel Communications Inc. and Sprint Corp., come when many in the industry and on Capitol Hill want to take a fresh look at the 1996 Telecommunications Act, which was passed before many Internet services were developed.

But Levin said he expects any legislative action to follow the antitrust reviews.

"Mergers are the 800-pound gorilla on all policy proceedings," he said.
Livyjr
And here is one more version of Star Chamber history which has some quotes in it that are directly relevant to OUR own times, here in OUR America, where George W. Bush is now OUR own version of Henry VIII of corrupt and tyrannical jolly olde England, with some "Fat George", or George III thrown in to the "mix" as well, and the thug-like Republican Party in OUR Congress is collectively becoming HIS Star Chamber, to be used AGAINST US, to OUR detriment!

Time is indeed a loop!

"Star Chamber", From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The Star Chamber was an English court of law at the royal Palace of Westminster, so named because the court chamber had a pattern of stars on a dark blue background painted on its ceiling.

The Star Chamber evolved from meetings of the king's royal council, with its roots going back to the medieval period.

The court only became unusually powerful during the reign of Henry VII, when in 1487 the court became a separate judicial body from the king's council with a mandate to hear petitions of redress.

The Star Chamber was finally abolished in 1641 by the Long Parliament.

Initially well regarded because of its speed and flexibility, it was made up of Privy Councillors as well as common-law judges and supplemented the activities of the common-law and equity courts in both civil and criminal matters.

In a sense the court was a supervisory body, overseeing the operations of lower courts, though its members could hear cases by direct appeal as well.

The court was set up to ensure the fair enforcement of laws against prominent people, those so powerful that ordinary courts could never convict them of their crimes.

Under the Tudors, the mandate of the court expanded to include instances of public disorder and rioting.

Judges would receive petitions involving property rights, public corruption, trade and government administration, and disputes arising from land enclosures.

Although the court could order torture, prison, and fines, it did not have the power to impose the death sentence.

Under the Tudors, Star Chamber sessions were public.

Under the leadership of Lords Chancellor Cardinal Wolsey and Archbishop Cranmer (1515-1529), the Court of Star Chamber became a political weapon for bringing actions against opponents to the decrees and edicts of Henry VIII.

Although the court was initially a court of appeal, Henry VIII and his councillors Wolsey and Cranmer encouraged plaintiffs to bring their cases directly to the Star Chamber, bypassing the lower courts entirely.

The power of the Court of Star Chamber grew considerably under the Stuarts, and by the time of Charles I it had become synonomous with misuse and abuse of power by the king and his circle.

James I and his son Charles used the court to examine cases of sedition, which meant that the court could be used to suppress opposition to royal policies.

It came to be used to try nobles too powerful to be brought to trial in the lower courts.

Court sessions were held in secret, with no indictments, no right of appeal, no juries, and no witnesses.

Evidence was presented in writing, and the verdict was whatever the Privy Council decided.

Charles I used the Court of Star Chamber as a sort of Parliamentary substitute during the years 1628-1640, when he refused to call Parliament.

On October 17, 1632, the Court of Star Chamber banned all "news books" over complaints from Spanish and Austrian diplomats that coverage of the Thirty Years' War in English newspapers was unfair.

Newspapers had to be printed in Amsterdam and then smuggled into the country until the ban was lifted six years later.

Charles I made extensive use of the Court of Star Chamber to persecute dissenters, including the Puritans who fled to New England.

Star Chamber proceedings were not only used to gain arbitrary convictions, but also arbitrary acquittals for guilty parties whom the crown wished to protect as well.

The abuses of the Star Chamber by Charles I were one of the rallying cries for those who eventually executed him.

(See the entry for John Lilburne).

In the early 1900s, Edgar Lee Masters wrote:

"In the Star Chamber the council could inflict any punishment short of death, and frequently sentenced objects of its wrath to the pillory, to whipping and to the cutting off of ears."

"... With each embarrassment to arbitrary power the Star Chamber became emboldened to undertake further usurpation."

"... The Star Chamber finally summoned juries before it for verdicts disagreeable to the government, and fined and imprisoned them."

"It spread terrorism among those who were called to do constitutional acts."

"It imposed ruinous fines."

"It became the chief defense of Charles against assaults upon those usurpations which cost him his life. ..."

Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Chamber
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