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NiteOwl
QUOTE
States Mull Taxing Drivers By Mile
CBS News | Feb. 14, 2005


CORVALLIS, Ore., - College student Jayson Just commutes an odometer-spinning 2,000 miles a month. As CBS News Correspondent Sandra Hughes reports, his monthly gas bill once topped his car payment.

"I was paying about $500 a month," says Just.  So Just bought a fuel efficient hybrid and said goodbye to his gas-guzzling BMW.  And what kind of mileage does he get?
"The EPA estimate is 60 in the city, 51 on the highway," says Just.

And that saves him almost $300 a month in gas. It's great for Just but bad for the roads he's driving on, because he also pays a lot less in gasoline taxes which fund highway projects and road repairs. As more and more hybrids hit the road, cash-strapped states are warning of rough roads ahead.

Officials in car-clogged California are so worried they may be considering a replacement for the gas tax altogether, replacing it with something called " tax by the mile ."

Seeing tax dollars dwindling, neighboring Oregon has already started road testing the idea.

"Drivers will get charged for how many miles they use the roads, and it's as simple as that," says engineer David Kim.

Kim and his team at Oregon State University equipped a test car with a global positioning device to keep track of its mileage. Eventually, every car would need one.

"So, if you drive 10 miles you will pay a certain fee which will be, let's say, one tenth of what someone pays if they drive 100 miles," says Kim.


The new tax would be charged each time you fill up. A computer inside the gas pump would communicate with your car's odometer to calculate how much you owe.

The system could also track how often you drive during rush hour and charge higher fees to discourage peak use. That's an idea that could break the bottleneck on California's freeways.


"We're getting a lot of interest from other states," says Jim Whitty of the Oregon Department of Transportation. "They're watching what we're doing.

"Transportation officials across the country are concerned about what's going to happen with the gas tax revenues."

Privacy advocates say it's more like big brother riding on your bumper, not to mention a disincentive to buy fuel-efficient cars.

"It's not fair for people like me who have to commute, and we don't have any choice but take the freeways," says Just. "We shouldn't have to be taxed."

But tax-by-mile advocates say it may be the only way to ensure that fuel efficiency doesn't prevent smooth sailing down the road.




The thing about tracking your mileage is that along with it goes the ability to track YOU or at least every movement of your vehicle. If that doesn't bother you.... it should. What will be the next use that they can think of for such info ? Speeding tickets by satellite ? (They would know how far you travelled, the elapsed time, and of course... your average speed. If your trip was a little too quick... here's your speeding citation. That would just be the beginning.





:ph34r:
Mass
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Feb 16 2005, 02:04 PM)
The thing about tracking your mileage is that along with it goes the ability to track YOU or at least every movement of your vehicle.  If that doesn't bother you.... it should.  What will be the next use that they can think of for such info ?  Speeding tickets by satellite ?  (They would know how far you travelled, the elapsed time, and of course... your average speed.  If your trip was a little too quick... here's your speeding citation.  That would just be the beginning.
:ph34r:
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So if you are rich you can drive as much as you want, if you are poor you stay home.

Is the OR Governor a Republican? Republicans would love to replace taxes by usage fees. This looks a lot like that.
wileycoyote
Wonder how the long haul truckers like this idea? Most of the ones I know voted for Cheney's stooge. It's because of all this "cutting" that the stooge is doing that is causing states to have to find new ways to make money. So the stooge can keep saying "I won't raise taxes" while he knows he is forcing states to raise them. I don't care if it's state tax or federal tax, it's still tax.
NiteOwl
QUOTE(wileycoyote @ Feb 16 2005, 03:36 PM)
Wonder how the long haul truckers like this idea?  Most of the ones I know voted for Cheney's stooge.
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A lot of fleet vehicles are already GPS equipped... so that dispatchers know where they are at all times. Small outfits and owner-operators probably don't have GPS tracking but most of the bigger outfits do from what I understand.
Don
QUOTE
The new tax would be charged each time you fill up. A computer inside the gas pump would communicate with your car's odometer to calculate how much you owe.

The system could also track how often you drive during rush hour


The above wouldn't require GPS, just some additional functionality in the vehicle's onboard digital electronics, along with an IO port for the gas pump (probably a low power rf device).
Mac2
QUOTE(Don @ Feb 16 2005, 04:59 PM)
The above wouldn't require GPS, just some additional functionality in the vehicle's onboard digital electronics, along with an IO port for the gas pump (probably a low power rf device).
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Its got to require GPS. You can drive city to city, county to county, state to state, country to country. Think about it.
graham4anything
Said this on another thread earlier today-

if you have on the East coast EZ Pass (we have it in NY NJ), they already theoretically can track you, give you speeding tickets, know when and where you entered a tunnel or toll

Without EZ Pass-just by liscence plates-
There are cameras on all the bridges and tunnels and roads, and in the streets of New York City, if you go thorugh a red light on some streets
a camera is already watching and a ticket can show up in your mailbox

Better not cheat on your spouse, they can see who or if someone is in your car with you

And pay by credit card? They already can figure out how many miles you drive

I guess most states off the east coast don't have these things, but the EZ pass goes from
Mass/Ct/Ny/RI/NJ/PA/MD/DC and I believe it is or will soon be good on the toll roads of Florida too

scary isn't it?
Sandra
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Feb 16 2005, 04:50 PM)
Said this on another thread earlier today-

if you have on the East coast EZ Pass (we have it in NY NJ), they already theoretically can track you, give you speeding tickets, know when and where you entered a tunnel or toll

Without EZ Pass-just by liscence plates-
There are cameras on all the bridges and tunnels and roads, and in the streets of New York City, if you go thorugh a red light on some streets
a camera is already watching and a ticket can show up in your mailbox

Better not cheat on your spouse, they can see who or if someone is in your car with you

And pay by credit card? They already can figure out how many miles you drive

I guess most states off the east coast don't have these things, but the EZ pass goes from
Mass/Ct/Ny/RI/NJ/PA/MD/DC and I believe it is or will soon be good on the toll roads of Florida too

scary isn't it?
*

It's absolutely scary....this is why I'm totally opposed to giving the government power that it doesn't already have (and I'd really like to cut back on the power it has already).
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Mac2 @ Feb 16 2005, 03:09 PM)
Its got to require GPS. You can drive city to city, county to county, state to state, country to country. Think about it.
*

GPS nearly useless in tunnels, canyons (NYC type or natural), and when a clear sky shot is not available.

A simple way: Put a 100 percent tax on tires and a 100 percent tax on gasoline.

Watch the driving miles go way down, without the loss of privacy. Big Brother doesn't have to watch. He just wants to.
NiteOwl
Raise the gas tax... it will replace lost revenue AND encourage adoption of hybrid / fuel-efficient vehicles.
Magmak1
Rats! I shot Nellie the old mare last month....

By the way, is it true that an OnStar system can be used to track you even if you didn't active it (or is this just a street myth?).
benEzra
QUOTE
A simple way: Put a 100 percent tax on tires and a 100 percent tax on gasoline.

Watch the driving miles go way down, without the loss of privacy. Big Brother doesn't have to watch. He just wants to.

That would be the effect of the gas tax, but taxing tires in that way would be a very, very bad idea.

(1) Tax based on the cost of the tire, as you suggested, would penalize people who buy higher-quality (e.g., SAFER) tires. My Toyota Camry wears Goodyear Eagle GPH's for improved emergency handling and braking, and much less likely to blow out on a hot day on the Interstate due to the speed rating.

(2) People who can't afford to buy new tires this month, but who need to keep driving to keep their job or whatever, will keep driving. You'd just have more people driving on worn-out tires with the threads showing, not good from a highway safety standpoint.
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