Think civil war will happen in '05 as Sharon begins withdrawl of settlers from the Gaza? Should Bush be sending Condi into Israel and Palestine to calm tensions and further explain Bush's position on this??
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42908

<_<


http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39301
Posted: July 6, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Aaron Klein
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

A group of settlers is planning a civil revolt, which could develop into violence, in response to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to withdraw settlements from the entire Gaza Strip and some of the West Bank, a leader of the revolt told WND.

The small group of leaders held a series of meetings to discuss plans to disrupt the unilateral withdrawal in 2005, including some actions that could start as early as this month.

"We have plans for a civil revolt, which is going to include stopping traffic and causing traffic jams, no more paying of taxes, cutting down the fences the IDF will try to put up to keep us from our land, having people lie down in the streets and block bulldozers, and disobeying orders from the Israeli authorities," an operational leader in the planned revolt who asked that his name be withheld told WND.

But he conceded the revolt could easily turn violent: "Of course, the part of the world we live in is dangerous, most of us are armed. We are not going to shoot first at anyone, but if the IDF opens fire at us, believe me, we are going to shoot back."

Not really an issue today.

Eventually, you could bump this up when Israeli police forces start handling israelis like US police forces treat americans with pepper spray, sonic cannons, tasers, rubber bullets, Wally squads (undercover troublemakers) etc...

It's not going to be a site anyone wants to see, that's for sure:


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php?id=77140


Police are preparing non-Jews to force Jews out of Gaza and northern Samaria and also are instructing policemen to hide identity badges, according to the B'Sheva weekly newspaper.

Law enforcement officers also have been promised that the police department will not act on any complaints against police brutality during the evacuation, which is expected to take several weeks. B'Sheva also reported that police are being trained how to use violence without leaving any external signs which could be used as evidence against them.

The government plans to close off Gush Katif as a closed military zone from May 15 and thus prohibit non-residents from entering, according to the investigative report. It disclosed that most of the policemen are non-Jews and that many Jewish policemen are suffering psychologically from the training they are receiving.

Police will not wear identity tags in order to prevent any complaints or claims of brutality, B'Sheba stated. Policemen have been told no complaints will be filed for "minor things" such as breaking an arm. The newspaper said the entire police program is to be unveiled at a Chabad gathering this coming Thursday.

The law enforcement agency plans to place four policemen for every resident to be evacuated. They also are preparing how to force mothers to release their babies, who are to be turned over to social workers until mothers agree to board buses.

Police also plan to seal the houses permanently, and soldiers will be on duty to prevent residents from returning. The Gaza and northern Samaria residents are to be transported to hotels or mobile homes, where guards will keep them from protesting or blocking roads.

Religious fanatics is religeous fanatics whatever they call them self, they will rather see the whole world goe down in flames than be proven wrong

Reading Heart's post, I am wondering if Bush has his bloody hands in this? If this is part of his dealings with trying to get peace in this region?

I don't mean to sound nasty toward the Iraeli settlers being evicted in gaza and not enough of the west bank, but they are on land Israel is admitting it does not own, making them squatters.
I do not blame them for being angry because the Israeli government allowed this to happen, sanctioned it. Now the settlers are being evicted.
Our settlement of the US west pushed native americans off their lands and also then were american squatters that were pushed off lands they had settled, often driven off by others who had illegally bought claims.
No, it will not be a pretty site, and some violence will result. But the majority of israeli's support this eviction.
It is difficult to undo such settlements, but I hardly suspect that the settlers would stay to become Palistinian citizens.

Israel NEVER said they owned it; it was land captured and occupied as a result of the 67 war against her by the surrounding Arab states. It is true that some of the fanatical settlers think G_d gave them that land 3500 years ago and miraculously their rights had been "restored." The vast majority understand that they were encouraged to settle there by Sharon himself and even though they feel somewhat betrayed, they can be resettled somewhere else (hopefully such resettlement will keep intact the communities they have built).

For the few that will fight resettlement, you are right -- it will be ugly. I don't want to watch.

However, if there is to be a two-state solution, which EVERYBODY agrees is the only solution, it will require Israel's departure from Gaza, the realignment of the green line which is indefensible, and the construction of Barak's "Gaza Freeway" to connect the Gaza to the West Bank.

Sadly, among other tensions in this area with Lebanon and the on going violence during this new peace truce between Palestine and Israel, this decision by Sharon may create their own civil unrest from within.



http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1D8...776949224F7.htm
Militants plan Israeli pullout disruption

Tuesday 15 February 2005, 19:46 Makka Time, 16:46 GMT

[Militant Jews opposed to Sharon's Gaza pullout plan have changed the addresses on their ID cards so as to become residents of illegal settlements that are due to be evacuated.

Colonists from the occupied West Bank and parts of Israel made the ID card modifications to get by Israeli checkpoints ahead of the Gaza pullout, according to an Israeli newspaper on Tuesday.]


[On Monday, hundreds of Jewish settlers and their supporters blocked several main roads during evening rush hour, scuffling with police, burning tyres and causing traffic jams, to protest the Gaza plan. Police dragged protesters away and detained dozens.

Jewish extremists opposed to the Gaza plan have issued death threats against Sharon and his ministers.

Sharon told legislators on Monday that he has hired private security guards to protect the grave of his wife, Lily, for fear it would be desecrated by opponents to his Gaza plan.

In response Israel’s minister of Public Security Gideon Ezra strongly recommended, that an Israeli, who had threatened the ministers and their families, be placed under strongly recommended, that an Israeli, who had threatened the ministers and their families, be placed under administrative detention.]

Ahh, yes. Al Jazeera, that bastion of unbiased journlism. Kind of like FoxNews, only in Arabic

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4281039.stm

It will be the first time that Israel has abandoned settlements in Palestinian territories.

Many settlers have vowed to resist the move, but others have already decided to accept the government's compensation offer and move out.



******************************************************************

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/16/...ain623509.shtml

[(CBS) Prime Minister Ariel Sharon on Sunday signed an order requiring 9,000 Israeli settlers to leave the Gaza Strip and northern West Bank by July 20, his office said.

Settlers who remain in the areas slated for evacuation after that day can be removed from their homes by force, according to the directive.]

[The twin votes sent a mixed message to the Palestinians. An Israeli government agreed for the first time since capturing the West Bank and Gaza in the 1967 Mideast war to dismantle some of the dozens of Jewish settlements it has built there. However, Israel acted unilaterally on what was to be a key issue in peace talks with the Palestinians, and signaled it will keep a chunk of prime West Bank land close to Jerusalem, including two large Jewish settlement blocs in the area.

Sharon, a former settler patron, said that "it's not an easy day, it's not a happy day," but that the dismantling of 21 settlements in Gaza and four in the West Bank is vital for Israel's security. Later Sunday, he signed an order requiring some 9,000 settlers to leave their homes in these areas by July 20. Otherwise they would face removal by force. ]

[Jewish settler leaders said they have not given up. Pinchas Wallerstein, one of the leaders of the council of Jewish settlements, called on supporters to begin "an aggressive and strong struggle," but to avoid violent confrontations with Israeli troops. For now, only a minority of settlers have agreed to leave voluntarily, and security officials have said they are concerned about violent clashes during the evacuation.]

I totally agree that this region needs to made into 2 seperate states.

But what disturbs me are comments like this (from Heart's post)

They also are preparing how to force mothers to release their babies, who are to be turned over to social workers until mothers agree to board buses.

Policemen have been told no complaints will be filed for "minor things" such as breaking an arm


It just sounds real sick to me. More approved torture, taking babies away from their mothers..back to the nazi days

No Jill, Bush did not demand this...the world did. The world said, after 40 years of living in your towns and villages, your farms and your factories, you must move. The world said that although we had never heard of anything called a "palestinian" before 1967, and certainly this group of people did not make any demands on their Jordanian, Ottoman, or any other of their overlords, the Jews must give in to their demands. Why? Because they invented a good deal of what the world knows as "Terrorism" and we can't have that! Because we can't have Israel behaving the way any other country would, we must be better. We can overlook all of the occupations of all of the other countries, and we can overlook the many "palestinians" who live in refugee camps in Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, and various other places, because their Arab bretheren will not allow them to integrate into their societies, instead we must make sure that the Israelis bow to their demands instead. We will construct a group of people called "settlers" and we will demonize them by saying they are "extremists", "religious nuts" or "militant jews" and then after they no longer have a face, we will engage in a forced, massive population transfer....which will not be seen on any television, as there will be a media blackout. All of the "settlers"....8,500 of them, will resist losing their homes and businesses, but who cares? These are the people that the protestors around the world chanted about! If I may call them people that is. Certainly no one else ever has. They are not "people" they are an impediment to peace, they are loons, so of course their feelings, dreams, aspirations, promises made to them and their lives simply do not matter. This is the price Israel must pay...today that is....I'm sure it will be something different in a few years.

How dare they be human!

I AM A SETTLER

by Ashley Perry

I am a settler. According to most of the world I and people like me are to blame for violence in the Middle East, terrorism around the world, hatred of the West, if some media reports are to be believed also for the violence in The Sudan and so much more. I'm sure given time the tornadoes hitting many coasts around the world could also be attributed to the settlers. If I were to be viciously murdered and hacked to death along with children and old people tomorrow, it wouldn't be the person weilding the knife that would be at fault, it would undoubtedly be mine!

I am an enemy of the world. I am more of a nefarious and violent entity than Al Qaeda, the murderers of the school children in Beslan, the Madrid bombers, The Junjaweed in Sudan, Al Zaqaawi in Iraq,etc. I can tell you how I know, I have no side to the story. When a terrorist perpetrates their act the media fall over themselves to try and understand why. Was it their upbringing? The fact that they may have been a social outcast, picked on at school, the oppression they felt by events half way around the world, whatever the reason is will we will find out and paint a very human picture to these people who commit inhuman acts. I am a settler, apparently I got up one day and felt like oppressing the poor Palestinians and stealing their land and that is the whole of my story.

In media reports around the world I do not have a sex, I do not have a profession, I do not have likes or dislikes, I have no context. I am always referred to as a 'settler', sometimes I am afforded the prefix 'extremist' or 'right-wing'.

I can tell you that I am new at this 'settling' business. A few months ago I wasn't a settler and if I was killed it would be partially condemned by oh, let's see.....at least four or five governments. Today I wouldn't receive even that. I have moved only a few miles geographically yet a whole world in terms of legitamacy. I dared to move across the hallowed 'Green-line'. I am sure the whole world knows what the green-line is and how it got its name. I am sure they know that it was created by two generals on opposing sides in war sitting in a tent in the middle of nowhere attempting to muddle out a cease fire. I am sure too that the world knows that the only marker they had to delineate the lines of cease-fire was a thick green marker pen which when making the line on the map was sometimes miles thick.

That is it, a cease-fire line. Not the borders of a state not the ending of a peace plan but a line showing where two armies had finished their fighting and decided on a truce. When people talk of 1967 borders, they are being factually incorrect. One can only border a soveriegn state.

Which brings me to my next important fact which I am sure the world knows. There has never been a sovereign Palestine, ever in the history of man. Never a Palestinian King, President, ruler. Never a distinct Palestinian language and culture or money.

So where is it I have moved to I hear you ask. I can tell you that the last Internationally recognised agreement pertaining to this land was called 'The Balfour Declaration' which was adopted by The League of Nations in the early part of the twentieth century which called for a Jewish Home including where I now live....and nothing since. So at best surely where I live could be called 'disputed'. I recognise that there is a dispute, there are two people wanting to claim this land where I live. I do not occupy it any more than an arab who lives down the road from me does.

Speaking of Arabs, the world knows where I stand on them. Surely, I want them gone from here or dead perhaps and I pray continually for their destruction. Well I have some news for the world, I don't hate the Arabs or anyone particularly. I hate traffic, cold mornings and finding the colour of my clothes have run in the washing machine, but I don't hate people. I have never hurt anyone in my life, nor do I intend to. I am not a pacifist, nor am I violent, I'm just like most people on this planet ... a regular person. A regular person doesn't hate any particular people.

I have been told by many more veteran settlers that they remember before the Intifada when they used to go to the shops and Souks of the local Arab towns and cities. They used to invite Arabs to their homes and celebrations and were invited back. Yes, these were the evil settlers pouring tea to their Arab guests of their home and enquiring about the health of their relatives. These were the abhorrent Arab-hating settlers who would moan about the weather with the Arab shopkeepers as they did their weekly grocery shopping. What may surprise many is that most settlers long for these times again and dream of living side by side with Arabs or anyone in peace and harmony. Damn they are truly evil!

As a settler I am not allowed in many countries. I am sure you all knew the declaration of The Non-Aligned countries in the UN(a very large percentage of the world) that I am barred ffrom their countries. While the world fights for civil rights for murderers and terrorists, mine are just shunted aside. But hey, it doesn't matter. As a Jew I am not allowed in many countries in the world and am forbidden from owning land in many, many more.

So yes I am a settler! I make no apology for it. I never hurt anyone, I never stole anyone's land. In fact the land I am living on wasn't lived on before I got here, I repeat no Palestinians were displaced to make room for me. I wanted to write this piece not to convert anyone to my way of thinking. I haven't even given my reasons for living here. I just wanted to give myself and those around me context. I wanted to let you know that the BBC, CNN, etc don't know me or want to get to know me, they would rather shed a tear and try to 'understand' terrorism. I don't even seek anyone to understand me, I just want people to understand that there are two sides and to learn about both. To make a decision about something while only knowing one side is intellectually unsatisfying and not to at least listen to both sides is dishonest. So please send this on to as many people as possible, so more people can at least get the other side.

This is a very moving piece, Heart. Another one of your excellent posts. In order for there to be peace in the ME, both parties have to feel loss; neither one can be allowed to think he beat the other. THAT is the basis for eternal struggle.

I appreciate this settler's position. But the realities on the ground are such that for a two-state solution to succeed, both sides must end up with something of value, and both sides must feel they paid a price to get it.

Basic negotiation, 101.

I hope that Israel can keep the settlements intact as communities, even as they relocate them to accommodate the negotiations for peace.

I know Jeff, but when *you* are the price being paid, it's your entire world.

If no one ever knows how hard it is, how many people it hurts, to forcebaly move 8,500 people....then don't you think they will not see Israel as having given up anything? Having suffered anything? If the people are faceless, nameless, and demonized, then it will be as if someone asked Israel to take a little afternoon stroll as a price for peace. It is important for the world to see Israel paying this price, in its is full and entire painful wound....because it is true, and because otherwise it will not seem like they did anything to cede to the demands of anyone, and that would not be fair to Israel or the people who will be ripped from their homes. Do you understand?

Yes I do.

I hope that the settlers' pain IS shown to the world. And on Al Jazeera as well, which typically only shows Israelis when they are bulldozing Pal buildings or cracking their heads with a club.

And another thing. What a show of good will and sheer hope for peace if the settlers, on their way out, leave their homes standing instead of throwing a match into them.

What sanctimonious piffle. Can people read this cr@p without laughing? Its like a collection of overwrought melodrama intertwined with outright lies and distortion. More of the "no palestinians nonsense'" lies, the fact is people never called Israelis showed up and took land away from people who lived there for thousands of years and recently took on the Palestinian identity. The arabs who watched their homes bulldozed might just feel displaced.

No mention of the Geneva convention and its prohibtion of occupying Nations establishing settlements in said territories.

No amount of absurd histrionics will change the fact that the Settlers are and have been in violation of international law.

I have news for you Ashley, there already is a Jewish Homeland, and you aren't in it. Its a real country with real borders and its called Israel, and most of the 6 Million Jews already there are damn sick and tired of risking ther lives so you can live in your little fantasyland.

No Ashley people are not wondering if Hamas and Hizbollah just need more understanding and nurturing, we know thugs, racists and terrorists when we see them, and thats what they are. We also understand there are two sides to every story, and the settlers side is the lunatic fringe on the Israeli side. Where do you get this crap about people trying to 'understand' terrorism, or did you just make it up?

Of course another way to divide the two sides on this conflict is the Fundie wackos on one side and everyone else.

You don't hate Arabs Ashley? So bulldozing their houses is what? Love?

Violating international law is bad whern terrorists do it, and its bad when you do Ashley, and we are sick of shedding lives and limbs for you, so don't be too surprised when no one sheds a tear for you.

You are part of the problem, Ashley, just like the terrorists.

Great word used. They've settle once, and they can re-settle again... a great sacrifice , no doubt, but for the good of peace for the greater number of Israeli citizens who don't deserve to die because they won't budge. The good Palestians should also make sure that those evil Palestinians don't push propagandas to stop peace. Abraham's kins deserve to be able to live in peace and work, farm, and do business with one another as good neighbors.

I saw the movie The Olive Harvest that moved me to tears. It makes me think how beautiful it would be once again for the Israelis and Palestinians to have their rich Orchards of Olives again without the ugly war destructions and devastations from all the imported modern-day killing weapons.

If past great, powerful colonials were able to surrender their colonies to the independence of the real deserving natives, what's so great about a small group of settlers that cry, whine and refuse to budge to bring peace?

So they are training police to treat the settlers like they do the Palestinians?

The anger in your voice real_dem shows that Ashley may have actually, for a moment, made you think, that perhaps the people who are being moved around so the palestinians, and you with your gang of international screaming hordes, can finally be appeased, might really be humans after all. Not the easy view of the IDF soldier coffed in olive drab and bearing a weapon and a tank, but other people....people who have lives that are going to be wrecked too. You cannot face their humanity can you? Yet you would like them to face the humanity of those who have exploded themselves in their childrens buses. You would like us to see the humanity in the eyes of palestinians, but you cannot do it yourself when the situation is reversed....ah the hypocrisy of the idealogue.

Does this 9000 person forced march toward the ephemeral 67 borders have to be? Perhaps, but your hystrionics simply show that you cannot view it as a compromise...you can't see the hurt, the disruption of real human lives, or anything else.

No, to you this is simply the nazi's getting hung. That's why for you, this will not be enough...nothing ever will be enough...and next year when the demands are expanded, Ashley will have been proven correct, and all of their pain will have been for naught, because no one ever saw it....they could not see it...like you cannot....they were too busy passing judgement on people they have never met on either side, in a place they have never lived, but whose cause made good bumper stickers and protest banners.

Your pain is very evident, the pain of the 9000 pawns is also evident. For those of us who see a link between Iraq and the I/P situation there is a glimmer of hope, born of much pain. If in any way the war in Iraq has led to this day than the pain of Iraq is somewhat justified and I can almost believe the Neocon's spin. No one said this was going to be easy and Sharon and others who encouraged these people to settle on foreign lands need to answer. I can only hope they are well compensated and if US funds are involved this is one foreign aid I would support 100%.

US$100 it won't happen.
My only dilemna is the number of years before the fact should be established.

I did not say or imply any of that, but that never stopped you before. Next time I have a thought please tell me what it is, so I don't have to bother.

I am certain most other people read the words I said, so it really does not matter what you think.

Let be be clear, I do not have sympathy for the terrorists but I also have no sympathy for the settlers, who made a conscious decision to leave their own nation, laying claim to land in direct violation of Geneva and UN resolutions. Ashley tries hard to make the act of moving "a few miles" seem like some trivial move, despite the fact it is not his country that is a few miles away.

So, heart, while I have not met a great many criminals and thieves, it not necessary to know them personally to understand what they are. And Ashley is both a criminal and a thief.

The hurt? The pain? You can't see the pain these arrogant racist fundies have inflicted upon the world?

These people are getting their comeuppance, and they deserve it . Just like the terrorists.

I have sympathy for the innocents on both sides, which is what I have always said, but these people are not innocents. In tandem the lunatics on both sides have made everyone suffer.

That really depends rd...you know, you are leaving out a whole lot in the interim right? Like the emergence of these people called "Palestinians". Perhaps you can't put yourself back in 1967 just after the war, when Jordan ceded the West Bank, but I can, and when a cease fire is still under negotiation and you have no problems with these people...your neighbors, who happen to be Arab, it doesn't always come up the way you are playing it. It took Arafat years to create the "palestinian cause" and to shape that in world opinion.

You cannot say that a person who has lived in Gush Katif since they were born, and since their mother was born consider themselves settlers. In many cases three generations of people have been born there. These are not religious fanatics, although many have turned toward religion as they have watched mangled body parts land on the ground beside them.

In many cases, these people are no different than our settlers, or the settlers living in the Faukland Islands that Britain went to war with Argentina over, or the French that lived in Algeria, or the Spanish that still live in that enclave on Moroccan soil, or the Dane that lives in Greenland. Or the poor people in Fiji that live under the brutal mercenary armies of the French, and no one says a word.

In 1967, most of those Arab countries did not even exist, and if they had it was only for a very few years, as emirates and other satrapies. Israel WAS promised a much larger country and won the battle of 5 invading armies. That land was land that many Jews spilled blood upon, and the Patriarch's tomb is there and many other holy places to both Christians and Jews, but not Muslims, and yet, when they had those places under the control of Jordan and Egypt, they despoiled them. How would you feel if that were something you hold holy? To leave that which you had fought so hard to fix up, and make pretty in honor of your belief?

What is a land if you are talking about desert? You know it was but desert, but you don't care. YOu know that it was the Jews that made that desert bloom and you also know that the buildings and factories and irrigation systems are what the Palestinians really want. They seem to only care about something there when someone else expresses interest in it, or builds it. If Jews want it, then it must be important. Surely this is the case or someone would have struck a claim before under Ottoman or Jordanian or Egyptian rule no? The only person that ever really cared about the people of that area other than Jews, was Saladin and HE was a KURD!

But none the less the media blackout will ensure you don't see the proud Jewish people brought low, so no one will get to gloat...but the problem is, no one will understand the price paid either.

Support the Arab-Jewish grassroots that are working to bring peace to their nations:

http://www.aplconference.ca/speech/Shniad.htm

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Taayush/?yguid=115526157

http://www.ipsterraviva.net/tv/wsf2005/Voi....asp?idnews=166
30/01/2005

ISRAEL-PALESTINE :
SMALL STEPS GO FAR IN BRIDGING THE GAP

TEL AVIV - Contacts between Israel and the Palestinian Authority have come almost to a complete standstill during the past four years of deadly ‘intifadah’ violence but -- perhaps also because of this freeze -- non-official initiatives have sprung up that are managing to span the borders between the two sides.

A number of large-scale initiatives put forth by leading Israeli and Palestinian figures have received global media coverage and have drawn both strong praise and harsh criticism from across Israel and the Palestinian territories.

Local grassroots programmes, involving Israelis and Palestinians, try to bridge the often- dramatic animosities between the two societies and begin to gather the building blocks for a possible future peace.

The outbreak of violence in September 2000 came as a surprise to many left-wing Israelis and shocked many of those involved in joint programmes with Palestinians, putting an end to most of these programs. However, as glimpses of hope began to flicker through the darkness, some of these cooperative programmes slowly began to re-emerge.

The Geneva Accord, unveiled in December 2003, is intended to offer a blueprint for a permanent status agreement between Israelis and Palestinians. The document was formulated by Israeli and Palestinian political, academic and security figures acting as private citizens. Former Israeli justice minister Yossi Beilin, one of the architects of the 1993 Oslo Accords, and former Palestinian minister of culture and information Yasser Abed Rabbo led the two teams.

Another large initiative jumpstarted by former senior officials acting as private citizens is The People’s Voice, headed by former Ami Ayalon, former chief of the Israeli navy and Israel’s Shin Bet internal security service, and Sari Nusseibeh, the president of Jerusalem’s Al-Quds University and a former Palestinian political figure.

The movement’s Statement of Intentions, signed by Israelis and Palestinians, was based on the "two states for two peoples" formula and was aimed at pushing official leaders into dialogue.

It is the smaller grassroots Israeli-Palestinian initiatives that are easy to miss, but no less relevant.

Quietly and with no almost press coverage, Israeli and Palestinian children and their families have been meeting periodically in an East Jerusalem church to make friends with the ‘enemy’.

Kids4Peace was first organised in 2002 by the St. George’s College "in response to concerns about the future of children in Israel and Palestine." The Jewish, Muslim and Christian children, boys and girls age 10 to 12, meet regularly in Jerusalem for intercultural and interfaith activities and travel to a summer camp in the United States once a year.

Another grassroots initiative is the Hand in Hand bilingual Arab-Jewish school in northern Israel.

In October 2000, mass demonstrations were held in Israeli Arab communities and Israeli police forces killed 13 Arab citizens in subsequent clashes. These events, focused largely in Israel’s northern Wadi Ara region, strained relations between Israeli Arabs and Jews and turned the valley into a potential flashpoint. On the background of these deadly events, Jewish and Arab parents from Wadi Ara got together and decided to create a bilingual Arabic-Hebrew school for their children.

"We are not trying to change the world. We are creating a reality that, in our opinion, is the correct reality. A reality of neighbours," said Tali Gaon, an Israeli Jewish mother of two and a project organiser.

A grassroots organisation that has, in fact, grabbed headlines during the course of the recent Israeli-Palestinian violence is Ta’ayush. The self-described Arab-Jewish partnership is a "grassroots movement of Arabs and Jews working to break down the walls of racism and segregation." The group says it seeks equality, justice and peace "through concrete, daily actions of solidarity to end the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories and to achieve full civil equality for all Israeli citizens." Mati Milstein

I found a current story by an Israeli aurthor ( Barry Chamish) that writes about how Sharon may be scrambling to prevent another attempt at a coup d'etat. Here's his concept on this matter. It surrounds Sharon's massive firing of security heads.

http://www.rense.com/general63/firdst.htm

Mass Firings - Sharon Fights To Prevent Military Coup
*Special Report*
By Barry Chamish
chamish@netvision.net.il
2-20-5

[PM Sharon is now scrambling to prevent another attempt at a coup d'etat. The top echelons of the IDF, Shabak and intelligence community have all reached the same conclusions: the planned Gaza withdrawal will be a security disaster. Once the withdrawal is over, Israel will no longer be able to secure its southern coastal flank. This will be the first step in the dismantling of the country.

To put an end to the coup discussions, in the past week Sharon has fired the highest ranking security officers in the country: IDF Chief of Staff, Gen. Moshe Yaalon, Shabak chief, Avi Dichter, while a member of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Security Committee, Col. Effie Eitam, was removed from proceedings for attacking Sharon, and his leadership of the National Religious Party was suspended.. Sharon is rushing to replace the trio from their positions with his own loyalists but the race to squelch the coup will be close.

The initial plan was simple and quick. A platoon of six tanks would break down the Knesset security fences and surround the building. Those inside would be given twenty minutes to clear the area. A second tank backed by an infantry squad would take over the Israel Broadcasting Authority studios, a mile away. A smaller force would take over the studios of the government radio stations in downtown Jerusalem.

To prevent a counter-attack against the Knesset forces, an announcement of the takeover would be broadcast by TV and radio, urging supporters to join the forces at the Knesset. Estimates are that over 100,000 Jerusalemites would join the soldiers at the Knesset within an hour, while 250,000 would show their support for the coup within half a day. At that point, a new rule by a military triumvirate would be announced.

Support for the plan is strengthening and Sharon's mass firings of the nation's security heads, may not prevent it. ]

Just in case are acually believing the lies of Vladimir Jabotinsky's fans here in regard to the settlers, lets state a few stark facts for y'all.

1. In 1967 there were 1.1 Million arabs in the occupied Territories. Some people get all wrapped around the axle that at one time they were not called Palestiains. Ignore these fools.

2.The war of 1967, was started by the Israelis. The israeli leadership was honest enough to say so....



3. The Jewish population in the occupied Territories in 1967 was a pretty good approximation of zero. The term "disputed territory" should be see as a red flag, used by revisonists to avoid having to explain away Geneva. By 1970 there were only 1500 land thieves, I mean Settlers from The Worlds Most Perfect Nation.




Well now there are 220K of these real land thieves, and the Palestinian population of 3.8 million.

A forced march back to where they belong is no big deal for these colonists, I mean, if a bunch of people started building homes in your country when they were not citizens, you would expect them to leave. If it causes them suffering, all the better.

From the Library of the US congress country studies...

http://countrystudies.us/israel/32.htm


Your tax dollars at work!

You have to give Sharon credit though, he is facing a huge domestic crises. He is responding to external pressure and according to this article feels if he makes small concessions now it will prevent huge concessions later. But the settlers are not leaving willingly.

Settlers vow to fight to the death after Israel approves Gaza pullout
02-21-2005, 11h27




JERUSALEM (AFP) - Israeli settlers vowed to fight to the death after the government's historic vote to leave the Gaza Strip, as hundreds of Palestinians were released from Israeli prisons.

"We need to reconcile ourselves to the fact that we are heading towards a rift in the people," said Pinhas Wallerstein, one of the leaders of the Yesha settlers council.

"This is a dire and complex situation, and I hope that we have the emotional ability to stand and face this reality. Even at the cost of people's lives and of my life, we won't let the evacuation be implemented."

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's cabinet voted by 17 to five at a marathon session on Sunday to begin evacuating the 8,000 settlers of Gaza from July 20, in what will be the first ever Israeli withdrawal from occupied Palestinian territory.

The vote also sounds the death knell for four isolated settlements in the West Bank as part of a wider disengagement plan which Sharon hopes will reduce pressure on Israel to conduct a more comprehensive pullout from the West Bank.

Meanwhile the Palestinian parliament was due to make a symbolic break from the past by voting on the first cabinet of the post-Yasser Arafat era.

While Sharon insisted that the pullout was vital to the future of the state, the settler leadership said that the argument was far from over.

The committee of settler rabbis also argued that the government's decision was invalid as it contravenes the Torah.

"Halacha (Talmudic law) establishes that a king who acts against the Torah is not to be heeded," the organisation said in a statement.

"Therefore, anyone who causes a rift and who is not sensitive to the Torah is responsible for the grave consequences."

In a speech after the vote, Sharon said the decision was the hardest of his entire career.

"But there are moments which demand leadership and responsibility for decisions to be made even if they are unpopular," Sharon said.

"As prime minister, I must look at the whole situation and I believe the disengagement plan will reinforce the Jewish character of Israel, improve its economic prospects and our international standing as well as relaunching the process to find a political solution" with the Palestinians, he added.

While Sharon completely snubbed the late Palestinian Authority and his arch enemy Arafat, the Israeli leader has been willing to negotiate with Arafat's successor Mahmud Abbas.

As part of an agreement reached at the landmark summit between Abbas and Sharon in Egypt earlier this month, 500 Palestinian prisoners were released from Israeli custody on Monday morning.

The prisoners could be seen cheering and flicking victory signs as they were herded onto buses at the Ketziot military detention centre in southern Israel before being formally released to the Palestinian Authority at four checkpoints in the West Bank and another on the Gaza-Israel border.

Palestinian MPs meanwhile were expected to approve a new ministerial line-up after fierce wrangling among members of the dominant Fatah faction.

Fatah sources said the composition of the cabinet, which will have 22 ministers apart from current prime minister Ahmed Qorei, was finally approved after votes were taken on each individual minister at a meeting which lasted until the early hours.

With Fatah members accounting for 62 deputies out of the 83-strong parliament, the line-up is now almost guaranteed to go through.

The cabinet will include eight new ministers and some portfolios will also change hands, according to Fatah sources.
AFP
Copyright © 2005 Agence France Presse. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AFP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of Agence France Presse.

I know I should follow your advice about ignoring fools, but I can't quite bring myself to do it.


The reasons have been explained to you more than once as to the political and psychological ramifications of creating a people out of whole cloth as has been achieved with these Palestinians. You either lack the subtlety of intellect to understand, or simply harbor such hatred as to be blind to the cynical nature of this creation, but I will nevertheless state it one more time. The reason this is important is because it has to do with *framing*. If one looks at the situation as being between Israel and these new people called Palestinians, the dynamic of the situation is completely different than if one looks at it as a situation between Israel and the Arab world.

Those who helped propagandize these Palestinian people into existance have admitted as much.

RD: you dont' really want to go through this again do you? Unbeleivable!

Okay, so you get Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraqi troops amassed on your border. Quite probably they could hurt someone!! Quite probably they intended on doing that. They SAID THEY WERE INVADING ISRAEL! Now could they have conqueored Israel with their forces? Evidently, post war, it's quite clear they could not. But if five armies, even just guys with AK47's amassed on the border of my town, I would want the country to stop them before they conqueored MY city even if they didn't have enough arms to conqueor the country! What you say, goes against everything, that anyone with a lick of sense knows, agrees to, and understands as DEFENDING YOUR COUNTRY! What....did they have wait until the armies started rolling right over the border and into an Israeli town before they declared "HEY DUDE, YOU'RE ARMIES ARE ON OUR BORDERS....WE KINDA GUESS YOU WANT A WAR!!!"

Now, let's take your funny statistics for after the war: Well...yeah...I suppose you might be correct, cause after 1967, Israel didn't just take the West Bank from Jordan, nor just take the Gaza from Egypt. They took territory almost all the way to Damascus and almost all the way to Cairo! Now, if the US went to war with Mexico and took all the territory up to Mexico city, odds are that the Mexican to American population in that territory would be pretty high in favor of Mexicans! But, Israel gave territory back to Jordan and BACK to Egypt and BACK to Syria, and those people left these other folks living there, that they didnt' want! What the heck do you do when the countries won't take them back or don't want them or Israel wanted the holy sites that belonged to Israel's poeple?

So anyway, this was what Israel looked like after the 1967 war, and it looks like Israel DID give back a bunch of land for peace doesn't it? Just so you know that there is a precedent for that sort of thing:

No it does not. There is no difference what you call the Palestinians, If it makes you feel better, I'll call the situation between the Arabs and the Israelis if you want. So the conflict is between the Arabs who where there first and the newly invented Israelis who were created out of whole cloth. In the Occupied Territories there were no Israelis, but 1.1 Million Arabs in 1967.

Nice try at obfuscation. I'll believe what the Prime Minister of Israel said.
"In June l967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him." (New York Times, August 21, 1982)

The holy sites? Its real estate, and not theirs. Or are you saying the invasion was about getting control of Holy Sites?

By what logic do you figure that the people "left behind" by the retreating Arab countries were not in fact staying where they were? Was it the duty of those nations to forcibly move them for the conveniance of the worlds most perfect nation?

They did give back land, now give back the rest of it. Send those 220,000 US financed invaders back home!

Here's a fresh tear into the new Israel Pal truce agreements. THE WALL


http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.aspx?Lan...=en&DSNO=707413
WASHINGTON, Feb 22 (KUNA) -- The US State Department on Tuesday said Israels separation wall poses a problem because it confiscates Palestinian territories and creates a list of other problematic issues.

"It is a problem to the extent that it prejudges final borders," said State Department Spokesman Richard Boucher.

The separation wall, which takes more than seven percent of Palestinian territory in a new route approved by the Israeli Cabinet on Sunday, "confiscates Palestinian property" and "imposes further hardship on the Palestinian people," added Boucher.

Boucher said the United States will be doing analysis to determine the extent of difficulties the wall has created.

On Sunday, the Israeli Cabinet approved the new route for the wall, which leaves 177,000 Palestinian Arab residents of East Jerusalem cut from the West Bank.

The official Israeli decision to pull out from Gaza and four settlements on the West Bank were regarded as a "real opportunity for progress in the quest for peace," said Boucher.

"Israeli disengagement from Gaza done in a way that is consistent with the road map and with appropriate support from the international community does have the potential to move both parties closer to realization of the president's two-state vision," he said.

While on his diplomatic tour through Europe, Bush said the world cannot rest until there is a resolution to the conflict, adding that a future Palestinian state must be "contiguous because "a state on scattered On Sunday, the Israeli Cabinet approved the new route for the wall, which

THE WHOLE MIDDLE EAST AS WE KNOW IT WAS INVENTED OUT OF WHOLE CLOTHE!!

Whatever you think RD...you just want to be argumentative. You don't want to solve anything. As soon as someone give you an inch, you'll still be screaming for more. No sense in it, because there are real people involved. You have your nice little house, in your nice country, with your cable and internet and saftey. Why don't you pretend you at least want that for both sides instead of all of your endless incitment and rehash of history...revisionist as it might be!

Actually, King Hussein didn't cede the West Bank until 1988, one year after the first intefada started. Up until that point, he and Peres had hoped to reach some accord with Israel that would leave Jordan with some control of the disputed land. After the intefada, however, Hussein's attempts at being seen as a friend of the Palestinians were rejected as Arafat became the spokesman for the Palestinians.


Yassir Arafat: FATHER OF MODERN TERRORISM

may he burn in H*ll

Actually, this is encouraging. When the State Department says things like "It is a problem to the extent that it prejudges final borders," and "confiscates Palestinian property" and "imposes further hardship on the Palestinian people" it is a good sign. And given the fact Bush is in Europe right now, the timing of the remarks sharpens the words more. Bush needs Europeon support, and all he has to do is move away from Israel and he will get it. And Bush knows that he could establish a legacy that could very well erase the memory of his stupid war, if he can solve that conflict. And if he advocates for the Palestinians more the only ones who will have to pay are the Israelis. Don't be too surprised if the Bushies unleash the FBI full scale on the simmering AIPAC spy scandal. Put that scandal on the front burner and turn up the heat, he will have no trouble getting the American people to let him make a change of course. Stay tuned.

Official drawing of revised route of wall/fence in Palestine/Israel

http://www.securityfence.mod.gov.il/Pages/ENG/route.htm

Map Legend from top to bottom
Green stripes - Nature reserve
Blue line - route as per government decision Aug 2003
Connected black dots - best guess some kind of security strip or barrier
Connected purple X's found nowhere on the map, deep fence or depth fence to be cancelled
Dotted purple line - temporary route
Thin purple line - the route for the completion of detailed (unknown abreviation)
Yellow-brownish line - Defense for a road or defense on a road (not clear exactly)
Red line - revised route
Blue dot Israeli place where people live, could be any size
Red dot - place where palestinians live ( ditto)

Date of map 17 Feb 2005

Source SBahour with thanks for translation.

The whole idea of a wall that presumably will prevent terrorism is naive. You cannot subjugate a whole race behind walls that divide the haves from the have nots. Why is MR B so worried about Syria and Iran, if not because of nuclear bombs aimed at Israel?? This wall is just a land grab in my book. They should tear down the wall as illigal, make one country and give everyone equal rights to vote. This would mean that the majority would be Palestinians and they would vote for equal shares of everything. What is so bad about that? The wall came down in Berlin, why are they building one in the Middle East? It is just an apartheid wall. Gandhi's son who lived in S Afrca during apartheid said after a visit to the middle east that it was ten times worse than apartheid. A woman was forced to give birth at a check point the other day because they wait so long to get through, for no other reason than to show the Palestinians who has all the power. I know that the Jews do not want this situation, just like the Palestinians. It is politicians who make trouble.

About walls: They exist all over the place, particularly in the middle east. The Labor Party (the left) in Israel fought for this wall as a passive way to stop the suicide bombings. So far, suicide bombers, even before Arafat died are down in 2004 by 90%, although attempts are not down at all, until the past couple of months.

Simple question: If your neighbor kept sending his kids over to tear up your garden every day of the week, wouldn't you build a wall?

Secondly, if you want to know about recent walls, consider the India is building thick walls all across their border with Kashmir and there is no outrage at that. Spain is currently occupying an enclave in Morocco, and they have built a wall there. We also have wall, for all the good it does without enforcement, beteen San Diego and Mexico...no outrage.

The cease fire lines from 1967 were scribbled on paper with felt tip pens, and were always "pending final negotiation", this is a fact. Everyone negotiated and came to a deal except the PLO who really did invent modern terrorism.

The people who are 'behind' walls are two people NOT one. The Israelis have fought five wars, and in the meantime became the best and greatest place in the area, and they did this even before 1967 inside of the 'green line", on the other hand, the Jordanian area which is now in contention here, was never developed by the people that lived there, nor did they make too much noise about it. Then when Arafat came into the scene he took all the money and spent it on exactly NOTHING for the people. In point of fact, he stole them blind, and truth be told the UN, US and Israel have been the only people to invest in anything in the PA...it has never been the Arabs of any sort. All they did was send guns and suicide vests.

Last year the United Arab Emirates paid for a building project in Jenin refugee camp to improve living conditions. The apartments were going to be european level standard, and the terrorists in the camps chased them off with guns, because they thought that if they improved the refugee camp it would cause the UN to think that these were no longer refugees AND because the refugee camps in the Palestinian territories (explain that one if you can?) provide fertile recruitment for suicide bombers. They would rather have the squalor to show how horrible it is than to build their economy and improve people's lives.

But let me also tell you that before the intafada, there were jobs for Palestinians, and they did work and they earned a living. They could not do a lot of things because they do not learn to read and write in the PA, unless you are in the ruling class. But the Israelis developed a cooperative business relationship, until they had too many explosions because the Palestinians were using the factory workshops to make bombs.

It's not Israel's fault that the Palestinians are poor, and it's not their responsibility to fix their problems anymore than we owe it to Mexico to create jobs there when we don't have jobs for our own citizens. Although, believe me enough have tried. There is even a casino built that Israelis can go to gamble, run by the PA, but where does the money go? No one knows!

Ghandi and Ghandi's son lived under a completely different set of circumstances, and Ghandi would not have tolerated what the Israelis have tolerated at all. Ghandi assumed that he was dealing with rational human beings, and he thought if enough people laid down and died the killing would stop, but he had no answer for Hitler and no answer for people who are setting out to kill every last Jew in Israel...so it makes no sense to use Ghandi's techniques here. False Analogy.

The Bush administration is no dear friend to Israel, as we all knew for a fact before the election. That's why 75% of American Jews voted for Kerry. He just sent some envoy to a Saudi anti-terror conference where they asserted that Jews started terrorism and that Jews and Christians cannot be trusted and the insurgency in Iraq is justified in killing other Iraqis even as they kill our soliders. Nice folks over there!

Bush wants Syria out of Lebanon and he wants them to stop sending fighters into Iraq. Lebanon is a place that actually WANTS to be a civilized and free country. Funny, how people think it's just peachy keen that Syria occupies Lebanon, for 20 years, but there is no outrage over that, even when Lebanon was the pride of the Middle East before Syria and the PLO got involved. Syria also is a state sponsor of terrorism, that would be hizbollah, and Iranian funded and Syrian harbored group that funds terror networks around the world.

So, you can say you want peace in the middle east, but if you're not going to crack down on the primary funding of terrorists you are doing nothing but ensuring endless violence. Every time there is a movement towards peace, Iran transfers funds to Hizbollah and an arms shipement shows up to HAMAS and peace is delayed. What do you want? Peace or war?

Iran has said they will use their nuclear weapons. We have bases all over the gulf and we have a big base in Israel. There are 10,000 American citizens in Israel and many more in Lebanon at any given time. A nuclear hit on Israel would also take out Lebanon, and part of Jordan, probably the Sinai and some of Syria, but Iran has said they did not care about that because the Muslim nation (of Shia anyway) and the Saudi and Gulf States will survive. So, the people in Lebanon, Syria, Egypti, Israel and Joran would be their idea of collateral damage. I think that's a real threat, even if you don't think that Israel's destruction is such a bad thing.

You mean ALL AROUND *HIS* house, halfway through his garden ?
No barbed wire ? No surveillance cameras? No remote controlled machine guns ? No tanks full of hot oil ?

Good thing there is a ban on landmines. But wait a minute:

"Israel has not acceded to the Mine Ban Treaty. Israel has said that it “supports a gradual regional process towards the eventual goal of a total ban on landmines, based on peaceful relations and regional cooperation.”[1] It has not made any new statements regarding its position on the Mine Ban Treaty since October 2002, when Foreign Ministry officials stated that while Israel supports the humanitarian objectives of the treaty, it is not in a position to separate its landmine policy from other regional security considerations.[2] Israel stated in late 2003 that considering the current threats to its security, unilateral disarmament and arms limitations “cannot contribute to peace, security and stability, and may actually lead to escalation of the conflict.”[3]

http://www.icbl.org/lm/2004/israel

No landmines ?

Israel should most definately sign the land mine treaty. I will inform them of the decision, so they will be right on it! (chuckle).

Heart, I agree 'Good fences make good neighbours.' I also did not know about the walls going up in Asia. But what is happening in Palestine is that the whole Palestinian population is being punished for the sake of a few. I used to be on the side that says 'The Palestinians deserve it because they support terrorists.' Then I listened to the Palestinian side. Then I found out that the Jewish Israeli's are against what their army is doing in Palestine, more often than not. I also kept seeing interviews with settlers who come from all parts of the world to become a Jew and get free land in Israel. The whole situation got out of hand. The genuine Jewish people, whose ancestors had some claim to the land were joined by a whole lot of people who are 'rightist fundamentalists' and believe that the dream of Zion can happen if the Palestinians are kept down and only then. It is a great big problem. I feel like I did in the UK about the IRA. I hate the terrorists but I sympathize with the Catholics in NIreland. You get my point?

The poll taken by the Haaretz, showed that Israelis preferred Bush over Kerry by two-to-one.

How and why would the vote of american jews be more significant than what israelis would vote ?


Why ?
What US interests make that a priority ?

America has not agreed to banning landmines has it?

Why do you think Princess Diana was taken out? She was doing a lot of anti land mine work, and she was very successful. She was also going to marry a Muslim.

But this is all another story.

There is a change in the WH. I read an article where Rice called a meeting where the usual neocons were present and one of them (Fief?) started his pro Israel rhetoric and she cut him with a statement to the effect that if she wanted to hear from Tel Aviv she would summon the Israeli ambassador. Go Condi!!!![SIZE=7]

I can't help but wonder the true percentage of Jews who voted for Bush. Truth be known bet it was much higher than 25%.

"The Avalon Project : Balfour Declaration November 2, 1917
The Avalon Project at
Yale Law School
Balfour Declaration 1917
November 2nd, 1917
Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government,
the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has
been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a
national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to
facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that
nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of
existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status
enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the
Zionist Federation.
Yours sincerely,
Arthur James Balfour
20th Century PageMiddle East PageAvalon Home Page

The Avalon Project : British White Paper of 1939
The Avalon Project at Yale Law School
British White Paper of 1939
In the statement on Palestine, issued on 9 November, 1938, His Majesty's
Government announced their intention to invite representatives of the Arabs of
Palestine, of certain neighboring countries and of the Jewish Agency to confer
with them in London regarding future policy. It was their sincere hope that, as
a result of full, free and frank discussions, some understanding might be
reached. Conferences recently took place with Arab and Jewish delegations,
lasting for a period of several weeks, and served the purpose of a complete
exchange of views between British Ministers and the Arab and Jewish
representatives. In the light of the discussions as well as of the situation in
Palestine and of the Reports of the Royal Commission and the Partition
Commission, certain proposals were formulated by His Majesty's Government and
were laid before the Arab and Jewish Delegations as the basis of an agreed
settlement. Neither the Arab nor the Jewish delegation felt able to accept these
proposals, and the conferences therefore did not result in an agreement.
Accordingly His Majesty's Government are free to formulate their own policy, and
after careful consideration they have decided to adhere generally to the
proposals which were finally submitted to and discussed with the Arab and Jewish
delegations.
The Mandate for Palestine, the terms of which were confirmed by the Council of
the League of Nations in 1922, has governed the policy of successive British
Governments for nearly 20 years. It embodies the Balfour Declaration and imposes
on the Mandatory four main obligations. These obligations are set out in Article
2, 6 and 13 of the Mandate. There is no dispute regarding the interpretation of
one of these obligations, that touching the protection of and access to the Holy
Places and religious building or sites. The other three main obligations are
generally as follows:
To place the country under such political, administrative and economic
conditions as will secure the establishment in Palestine of a national home for
the Jewish People. To facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions,
and to encourage, in cooperation with the Jewish Agency, close settlement by
Jews on the Land.
To safeguard the civil and religious rights of all inhabitants of Palestine
irrespective of race and religion, and, whilst facilitating Jewish immigration
and settlement, to ensure that the rights and position of other sections of the
population are not prejudiced... "

There are maps available on-line to show the recommended final borders of the U.N. post WWII plan taken up from the work done by the colonial british and the League of Nations to establish a Jewish homeland in "Palestine".
I do not want to go into every anecdotal story about Arab and Jewish wrangling, wars, who was to blame for each attack, that will accomplish nothing.
The idea is to move ahead, to seek resolution.
Look at pre-WWI maps, that region is called Palestine.

To look at every claim and counterclaim, will leave the situation as it was in 1939, when the British were facing the real Nazi's. The U.N. which created maps and proposed borders in 1947, has since made it clear enough that the 1967 borders are the borders that should be used in absence of a new settlement.
Egypt and jordan have given up claims to the lands that were given to their control before the newest serious international movement to a two-state solution.

Since 1917, since Camp David, since the work done in the 1990's, the process is coming closer to a possible settlement that would establish secure borders for Israel and a homeland for the Palestinians.
As far as ownership of the occupied territories, the Israeli government sanctioned settlement there, to do so I would consider a tacit or real claim to those lands.

Both parties are being asked to make compromises and sacrifices to bring a lasting peace. For peace to have a chance, both parties are being asked to close the book on violence and conflict that has afflicted the region for decades, for a chance at a greater good. Peace.

Unfortunately, the question of the settlements have to be addressed. And that will likely cause conflict. While not comparing one matter with the other, the terrorist attacks need to end permanently, and the settlers need to leave lands that would become part of palestine.

Interesting attitudes you have there. Some Jewish homes on the lands you wish clensed of such things and you go on and on about it. An entire sovereign nation is occupied and it's no big deal.

It all depends on whether it is an Arab or Jew (or Maronite Christian), I guess, and your double standards are quite glaring.

Yes, and you should just take a look at those maps!!!

http://domino.un.org/maps/m0082.gif

Totally ridiculous. Yet, the Israelis under Ben Gurion ACTUALLY AGREED TO ACCEPT THEM inder the theory that "half a loaf was better than nothing at all." The Arabs agreed to declare war on Israel.

You would've said poppies and oil and you could've made sense.
But obviously you have something else on your mind.

So when was the last time Bush showed any concern for Tibet if he cared so much about occupied nations ?

Oh, and btw, I don't remember Iraq or Afghanistan being occupied before the US came a'rollin'.