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Shame on those who exploit God for political purposes. How dare Bush imply that he is on a mission of God! God is not a republican or a democrat and I don't believe He would approve of anyone using their faith in God to impress others or to promote their political agenda. As Jesus said in Matthew 6:1 - "Be careful not to make a show of your religion before men; if you do, no reward awaits you in your Father's house in heaven."
this is from the local Rev.
Bush's Christianity differs from teachings of Jesus
President Bush will surely be invoking God's name and claiming to be a Christian. There are many brands of Christianity. President Bush seems to follow the Christianity of empires and kings. This brand of religion differs greatly from the faith of the early church as proclaimed in the Gospels.
Some comparisons are helpful:
Bush: tax breaks for the rich
Jesus: feed and heal the poor
Bush: demonize and kill the enemy
Jesus: love the enemy
Bush: trust military power for security
Jesus: trust God and vulnerability of love for security
Bush: use lies and secrecy to be successful
Jesus: use truth and openness to be faithful
Bush: Have the rich and powerful for his base support
Jesus: have the poor and powerless for his base support
Bush's Christianity differs from teachings of Jesus
President Bush will surely be invoking God's name and claiming to be a Christian. There are many brands of Christianity. President Bush seems to follow the Christianity of empires and kings. This brand of religion differs greatly from the faith of the early church as proclaimed in the Gospels.
Some comparisons are helpful:
Bush: tax breaks for the rich
Jesus: feed and heal the poor
Bush: demonize and kill the enemy
Jesus: love the enemy
Bush: trust military power for security
Jesus: trust God and vulnerability of love for security
Bush: use lies and secrecy to be successful
Jesus: use truth and openness to be faithful
Bush: Have the rich and powerful for his base support
Jesus: have the poor and powerless for his base support
QUOTE(savemefrombush @ Nov 8 2004, 10:39 PM)
this is from the local Rev.
Bush's Christianity differs from teachings of Jesus
Bush's Christianity differs from teachings of Jesus
I agree.
Bush wears his religion on his shirt sleve...for everyone to see....but I have yet to see him put it in action....and he never will, he is a fake.
QUOTE(kathysig1 @ Nov 8 2004, 11:36 PM)
As Jesus said in Matthew 6:1 - "Be careful not to make a show of your religion before men; if you do, no reward awaits you in your Father's house in heaven."
I've thought about this quote many times, and I believe it is true. I don't have a Jesus fish on my car for this very reason, and I don't wear a cross on a chain around my neck, either.
But how can we sit idly by and let people destroy our religion and country? I talk to people I know about this and try to convince them that Bush doesn't act like a Christian. But that's only a few people and most of them disagree with me anyway.
This is the weakness that fundamentalists in all religions capitalize on. We must not be timid in our response to those who would proclaim themselves as the only true christians- the defenders of the faith. Rove & Co. have taken ownership of the term morality, and democrats cooperated completely.
You have been cowed by the politically correct in the democratic party into believing that you should hide your faith under a rock.
If we believe in social standards at odds with others in the democratic party, then we should stand up for them.
People look for scriptural references to back up both their best and their worst inclinations. Look into your heart on this. Did Jesus hide his faith? Did he not make conspicuous displays? How about the sermon on the mount, or riding an ass into Jerusalem, or allowing himself to be crucified on the cross?
What's wrong with displaying a Jesus Fish with the word's "I believe that those that proclaim themselves the only true christians Aren't" You can see I am not good a pithy sayings, but you get the idea.
We have to get up in the faces of the exculsionary folks. Most Evangelicals even exclude Mel Gibson, because he thinks the Born Again creed is a crock. So, they believe that even he is not a true Christian, and that he is going to hell.
The cleavage point in Rove's base is so wide, you can drive a truck through it.
But to do so, we must be stalwart in presenting moral arguments publically, and be prepared for the evangelicals to rain fire and brimstone down on us, attempting to assasinate our characters and question the sincerity of our faith.
This is no time for timidity- Evil triumphs when the faithful decline to defend what they believe in.
You have been cowed by the politically correct in the democratic party into believing that you should hide your faith under a rock.
If we believe in social standards at odds with others in the democratic party, then we should stand up for them.
People look for scriptural references to back up both their best and their worst inclinations. Look into your heart on this. Did Jesus hide his faith? Did he not make conspicuous displays? How about the sermon on the mount, or riding an ass into Jerusalem, or allowing himself to be crucified on the cross?
What's wrong with displaying a Jesus Fish with the word's "I believe that those that proclaim themselves the only true christians Aren't" You can see I am not good a pithy sayings, but you get the idea.
We have to get up in the faces of the exculsionary folks. Most Evangelicals even exclude Mel Gibson, because he thinks the Born Again creed is a crock. So, they believe that even he is not a true Christian, and that he is going to hell.
The cleavage point in Rove's base is so wide, you can drive a truck through it.
But to do so, we must be stalwart in presenting moral arguments publically, and be prepared for the evangelicals to rain fire and brimstone down on us, attempting to assasinate our characters and question the sincerity of our faith.
This is no time for timidity- Evil triumphs when the faithful decline to defend what they believe in.
QUOTE(kathysig1 @ Nov 9 2004, 12:36 AM)
Shame on those who exploit God for political purposes. How dare Bush imply that he is on a mission of God! God is not a republican or a democrat and I don't believe He would approve of anyone using their faith in God to impress others or to promote their political agenda. As Jesus said in Matthew 6:1 - "Be careful not to make a show of your religion before men; if you do, no reward awaits you in your Father's house in heaven."
Where did you come up with that translation. My Bible says "Be Careful not to do your acts of Righteousness before men to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your father in heaven. " So, you are saying that if I am kind to someone, that I am actually showing my Religion? Faith in God is not a religion, Real Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship. The Catholic church is a religion, any church that says that you have to do something to be saved(islamic) is a religion. The Bible is not a religion, it is the inspired word of God. If it were anything else, each church would have a different translation. The only reason that there are different translations now is because our lanuage has changed. In the 1960's and 70's, gay meant to be happy, now it is a term for sexual preference is a good example of how our english language has changed just recently. .
I also want to state that liberal judges have been wrongly applying the seperation of Church, and state rule in our constitution.it was not put in there to seperate God from Government. It was done so we would not be like England, having our own State church.At that time, England had a state church, the church of England.The Dutch today call the lutherin Faith as their state church.There was only one reason for seperation of church and state that no church be made a church state, not to take God out of this country
Do you think that it is not politically correct in the Democratic party to bring up issues of religious conviction?
Has it irretrievably become the party of secular humanism?
Has it irretrievably become the party of secular humanism?
I was just over on Kerry.com and there are still a couple of topics where posts can be entered and here is one that I added over there:
huh:
a lot of definitions of "people of faith" are not inclusive. This is same problem as when in early old testament it was subject of discussion about what happens when you apply a word to a abstract concept. As I recall there was conflict over whether words such as Yahweh, or others would be acceptable. The problem still remains, others want THEIR definition to become concrete and subscribed to on terms the organized group finds acceptable, as opposed to the terms another group deems acceptable.
This is why I am not an affiliated member any longer of any recognized group, however that does not mean I am not a person of faith.
It is also why I am passively opposed to organized religion, and the present world situation demonstrates the outer extremes of battle over definitions turning absolute that which is abstract.
lenal
My 2 cents.
There are many differnt types of religious people.
There are ones that we respect and admire.
There are some that are arrogant and pushy.
They may even have the same core beliefs. Most due.
But, it is not a matter of religion it is a control issue.
Yes, A control issue.
I thought to myself, give them what they want..
If you live in a red state, let that state outlaw gay marriage, abortion, the day after pill, birth control.
Let them pray in school, teach abstanance, creation.
Let them put the ten comandments on every street corner.
But for me in the Blue states, let me live free.
If your life is so horrid in the blue states because we allow gays to marry, then move to a red state.
I thought this was a good idea.
But, this is not what they want. They want to total controll.
Think about it for a while. They want to take rights away. They do not want to contribute to society. They want to control society.
There are many differnt types of religious people.
There are ones that we respect and admire.
There are some that are arrogant and pushy.
They may even have the same core beliefs. Most due.
But, it is not a matter of religion it is a control issue.
Yes, A control issue.
I thought to myself, give them what they want..
If you live in a red state, let that state outlaw gay marriage, abortion, the day after pill, birth control.
Let them pray in school, teach abstanance, creation.
Let them put the ten comandments on every street corner.
But for me in the Blue states, let me live free.
If your life is so horrid in the blue states because we allow gays to marry, then move to a red state.
I thought this was a good idea.
But, this is not what they want. They want to total controll.
Think about it for a while. They want to take rights away. They do not want to contribute to society. They want to control society.
QUOTE(kathysig1 @ Nov 8 2004, 11:36 PM)
Shame on those who exploit God for political purposes. How dare Bush imply that he is on a mission of God! God is not a republican or a democrat and I don't believe He would approve of anyone using their faith in God to impress others or to promote their political agenda. As Jesus said in Matthew 6:1 - "Be careful not to make a show of your religion before men; if you do, no reward awaits you in your Father's house in heaven."
I think if you listen to Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh or Michael Savage and the people who call in (at least the ones they allow to talk) you can get a good clue what these people are about.
It is not the teachings of Christ, it is racsim, hatred, etc., which they try to justify in the name of God.
QUOTE(savemefrombush @ Nov 8 2004, 11:39 PM)
this is from the local Rev.
Bush's Christianity differs from teachings of Jesus
President Bush will surely be invoking God's name and claiming to be a Christian. There are many brands of Christianity. President Bush seems to follow the Christianity of empires and kings. This brand of religion differs greatly from the faith of the early church as proclaimed in the Gospels.
Some comparisons are helpful:
Bush: tax breaks for the rich
Jesus: feed and heal the poor
Bush: demonize and kill the enemy
Jesus: love the enemy
Bush: trust military power for security
Jesus: trust God and vulnerability of love for security
Bush: use lies and secrecy to be successful
Jesus: use truth and openness to be faithful
Bush: Have the rich and powerful for his base support
Jesus: have the poor and powerless for his base support
Bush's Christianity differs from teachings of Jesus
President Bush will surely be invoking God's name and claiming to be a Christian. There are many brands of Christianity. President Bush seems to follow the Christianity of empires and kings. This brand of religion differs greatly from the faith of the early church as proclaimed in the Gospels.
Some comparisons are helpful:
Bush: tax breaks for the rich
Jesus: feed and heal the poor
Bush: demonize and kill the enemy
Jesus: love the enemy
Bush: trust military power for security
Jesus: trust God and vulnerability of love for security
Bush: use lies and secrecy to be successful
Jesus: use truth and openness to be faithful
Bush: Have the rich and powerful for his base support
Jesus: have the poor and powerless for his base support
Is that like Henry the VIII's Christianity, when the church wouldn't let him divorce he just made his own, not to mention all those wives he murdered.
QUOTE(OctOct1)
If your life is so horrid in the blue states because we allow gays to marry, then move to a red state.
I thought this was a good idea.
But, this is not what they want. They want to total controll.
I thought this was a good idea.
But, this is not what they want. They want to total controll.
Right.
The democrats should support state's rights to put these sorts of policies in place so long as constitutional freedoms are not infringed on.
This supports moral diversity in America.
But democrats must make a covenenant with voters that it is our belief that it is not the right of the federal government to impose a viewpoint that is morally controversial, regardless whether most democrats believe that viewpoint is correct.
This will set us apart from the republicans, and is a coherant state's rights argument that can win over many traditional conservatives alarmed at their party being hijacked by whacko fundamentalists.
Guys like Kerry must be able to state not only their personal article of faith, but demonstrate concrete acts demonstrating their political support for those articles of faith. They must demonstrate real support for their faith by going to states that are considering socially conservative measures, and actively campaign for them.
Edwards should be doing this, and any other southern state aspirant for the white house.
We must not fail in 2006 and 2008. The barbarians are at the gate.
Nothing will please the Republicans more...endless debates of the Bible. We should stop with that and focus upon the seperation of church and state. The distinction between the Constitution and the Bible needs to hammered home. We failed in the 04' election.
Focus upon a few issues, not the whole left kitchen sink.
Focus upon a few issues, not the whole left kitchen sink.
Good piece on the Christian Left & a Zogby poll that shows more voters were concerned about Iraq
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...?referrer=email
As far as "God" being a part of this country, I hope you are allowing all definitions. Some of us worship Truth. Peace Love We have no specific entity.
For me, the 45+ years I have been told I was going to hell, that I am not moral, that I have "no invisible means of support" are becomming a serious agravation. As a nurse I do everything I can to support my patients' faith and sprititual needs. I deeply respect them because I want mine respected.
We need to develop 3 fronts
Religious sources (the Bible) cannot be the basis for a law or amendment.
There are many Christians who find the Republican interpretation and actions inconsistent with Christ's teaching. They need to be encourage to become active and vote.
We need to respect each others beliefs and stop cutting people down who don't agree with you.
I have no problem with people saying they have been saved, the good it has done them,etc
It's when they start pushing me to join or go to hell and won't accept that I have, repeatedly, tried to accept Jesus to no avail, that my courtesy wears thin.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...?referrer=email
As far as "God" being a part of this country, I hope you are allowing all definitions. Some of us worship Truth. Peace Love We have no specific entity.
For me, the 45+ years I have been told I was going to hell, that I am not moral, that I have "no invisible means of support" are becomming a serious agravation. As a nurse I do everything I can to support my patients' faith and sprititual needs. I deeply respect them because I want mine respected.
We need to develop 3 fronts
Religious sources (the Bible) cannot be the basis for a law or amendment.
There are many Christians who find the Republican interpretation and actions inconsistent with Christ's teaching. They need to be encourage to become active and vote.
We need to respect each others beliefs and stop cutting people down who don't agree with you.
I have no problem with people saying they have been saved, the good it has done them,etc
It's when they start pushing me to join or go to hell and won't accept that I have, repeatedly, tried to accept Jesus to no avail, that my courtesy wears thin.
QUOTE
"Religious sources (the Bible) cannot be the basis for a law or amendment. "
BS. You are definately part of the problem if you believe this. If this is adopted, then democrats define themselves as the party of secularism, intolerant of moral diversity. Checkmate and match to Rove and Co.
It does not matter what the source is. Do you or don't you believe that a community has the right to define social standards so long as constitutional rights are not infringed on?
We need to develop 3 fronts
Religious sources (the Bible) cannot be the basis for a law or amendment.
There are many Christians who find the Republican interpretation and actions inconsistent with Christ's teaching. They need to be encourage to become active and vote.
If what you said here is correct, then why do we have laws against Murder and Manslaughter, for it is based on the Commandment given in the Bible that says Thou Shalt not kill, and why are there laws against theft, and robbery, for they are based on the commandment, Thou Shalt Not Steal. They are both in the Bible. You know, the Bible is not a religion, True Christianity, and several Christian religions use the Bible for their Basis,and even the Jewish Faith use the old Testament. Even Islam has taken some of the Bible.What you also do not say is that everyone is destined to be condemned, except those that receive the Free gift that Christ gave us over 2000 years ago. He gave us the sacrifice of his life to pay for our sins. if we do not accept that gift, the only other way to heaven would be to lead a perfect life. I am sure that you have committed some offense in your life. TrueChristianity is a relationship, not a religion, and that relationship is based on love. And love is defined in 1 Cor 13. i
Religious sources (the Bible) cannot be the basis for a law or amendment.
There are many Christians who find the Republican interpretation and actions inconsistent with Christ's teaching. They need to be encourage to become active and vote.
If what you said here is correct, then why do we have laws against Murder and Manslaughter, for it is based on the Commandment given in the Bible that says Thou Shalt not kill, and why are there laws against theft, and robbery, for they are based on the commandment, Thou Shalt Not Steal. They are both in the Bible. You know, the Bible is not a religion, True Christianity, and several Christian religions use the Bible for their Basis,and even the Jewish Faith use the old Testament. Even Islam has taken some of the Bible.What you also do not say is that everyone is destined to be condemned, except those that receive the Free gift that Christ gave us over 2000 years ago. He gave us the sacrifice of his life to pay for our sins. if we do not accept that gift, the only other way to heaven would be to lead a perfect life. I am sure that you have committed some offense in your life. TrueChristianity is a relationship, not a religion, and that relationship is based on love. And love is defined in 1 Cor 13. i
QUOTE(savemefrombush @ Nov 9 2004, 12:39 AM)
this is from the local Rev.
Bush's Christianity differs from teachings of Jesus
President Bush will surely be invoking God's name and claiming to be a Christian. There are many brands of Christianity. President Bush seems to follow the Christianity of empires and kings. This brand of religion differs greatly from the faith of the early church as proclaimed in the Gospels.
Some comparisons are helpful:
Bush: tax breaks for the rich
Let us tax those rich to death, and let them all leave, and take their companies with them. Who do you suppose is going to give the rest of us our jobs? And I do not hear John Kerry offer to have his wife pay more taxes.Bush did not just give tax relief to the rich. What we need is to have something in the middle, You know that Enron was in the pockets of both democrats, and republicans, so that was not just a republican thing
Jesus: feed and heal the poor
Bush: demonize and kill the enemy
It was Jesus that told Isreal and Joshua to destroy those that lived in the land that he gave to the people of Isreal. This enemy is not like our next door neighbors, but people that treat women like property who likes to cut the head off their enemies. Jesus was also talking to the commom man, not one that is responsible for billions of people
Jesus: love the enemy
Bush: trust military power for security
Again, You speak as if president Bush is not responsible for one of the world's largest country. If you read into the book of Revelation, Jesus himself will be killing millions of people. He tells people to love thy enemy, but he also gives powers to countries to protect themselves
Jesus: trust God and vulnerability of love for security
Bush: use lies and secrecy to be successful
Please look to Deuteromity to see what obligations that God gave to the nation of Isreal. That is what you need to compare President Bush to. Can you tell me what this secrecy is, or are you just Judging, for God tells us Don't Judge lest ye be judged
Jesus: use truth and openness to be faithful
Bush: Have the rich and powerful for his base support
Do you think that the rich and powerful are the ones pushing Bush to War? The republican way is to make government smaller. It is not Government's job to give us healthcare, to give us a job, to give us a home, to try to make everyone equal
l We do need people to serve as leaders, and having money, and companies so other people can have jobs, and make a living themselves
Jesus: have the poor and powerless for his base support
Your comparisons of those of apples, and oranges, The political party the more aligns itself with Christian ideas is the republican Party today. You think God is happy with the gays forcing their lifestyle down our throats?, No, He calls homosexuality an adbomination
Bush's Christianity differs from teachings of Jesus
President Bush will surely be invoking God's name and claiming to be a Christian. There are many brands of Christianity. President Bush seems to follow the Christianity of empires and kings. This brand of religion differs greatly from the faith of the early church as proclaimed in the Gospels.
Some comparisons are helpful:
Bush: tax breaks for the rich
Let us tax those rich to death, and let them all leave, and take their companies with them. Who do you suppose is going to give the rest of us our jobs? And I do not hear John Kerry offer to have his wife pay more taxes.Bush did not just give tax relief to the rich. What we need is to have something in the middle, You know that Enron was in the pockets of both democrats, and republicans, so that was not just a republican thing
Jesus: feed and heal the poor
Bush: demonize and kill the enemy
It was Jesus that told Isreal and Joshua to destroy those that lived in the land that he gave to the people of Isreal. This enemy is not like our next door neighbors, but people that treat women like property who likes to cut the head off their enemies. Jesus was also talking to the commom man, not one that is responsible for billions of people
Jesus: love the enemy
Bush: trust military power for security
Again, You speak as if president Bush is not responsible for one of the world's largest country. If you read into the book of Revelation, Jesus himself will be killing millions of people. He tells people to love thy enemy, but he also gives powers to countries to protect themselves
Jesus: trust God and vulnerability of love for security
Bush: use lies and secrecy to be successful
Please look to Deuteromity to see what obligations that God gave to the nation of Isreal. That is what you need to compare President Bush to. Can you tell me what this secrecy is, or are you just Judging, for God tells us Don't Judge lest ye be judged
Jesus: use truth and openness to be faithful
Bush: Have the rich and powerful for his base support
Do you think that the rich and powerful are the ones pushing Bush to War? The republican way is to make government smaller. It is not Government's job to give us healthcare, to give us a job, to give us a home, to try to make everyone equal
l We do need people to serve as leaders, and having money, and companies so other people can have jobs, and make a living themselves
Jesus: have the poor and powerless for his base support
Your comparisons of those of apples, and oranges, The political party the more aligns itself with Christian ideas is the republican Party today. You think God is happy with the gays forcing their lifestyle down our throats?, No, He calls homosexuality an adbomination
QUOTE(MakThorpe @ Nov 10 2004, 12:58 PM)
Do you think that it is not politically correct in the Democratic party to bring up issues of religious conviction?
Has it irretrievably become the party of secular humanism?
Has it irretrievably become the party of secular humanism?
Doesn't appear that way to me. I see Democrats falling all over each other to profess their faith. Lieberman spoke for the party when he said, "Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion." There is no party of secular humanism, so far as I can tell, which would have infuriated Thomas Jefferson. I think the Democratic Party can fairly claim to stand for tolerance of a diversity of religious views, a notion the Republicans do not even pay lip service to. But when was the last time you saw a professed atheist nominated for anything in the Democratic party?
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