The bare face lies from before the election of ALL the Republicans, Bush,Cheney,Rumsfeld, and their toady generals saying none of them could imagine wanting a draft again.............BUSHIT!

Tonight three experts were talking about not wanting an OLD draft, this will be the NEW draft including women serving a few years between ages 18-28.
This service can be military or civilian BUT they can use the "civilians to drive the trucks through highways of Death" in their filthy wars,and serve as police in occupied cities.They want a small fighting service and large "peace keeping forces"
If any one noticed it's these peace keeping forces that are being blown up daily, the fighting forces are those before the Mission Acomplished sign went up.

How can you tell when Bush and his thugs lie?


their lips move!

Was this a discussion or an actual news fact?

It seemed serious to me, one general was among the panel, there is probably transcript of the program on CNN.

I just saw another article the Febuary recruitment is down 30%, and they are running out of troops they can return to Iraq.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/03/ldt.01.html
DOBBS: Our military, without question, is stretched almost to the breaking point by wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and the global war on radical Islamist terrorism. The latest Pentagon figures show the military finding it much harder to recruit enough troops. For some military expert, that means Congress has only one choice, that is, to reintroduce the draft.

Writing in the magazine Washington Monthly, Paul Glastris and Phillip Carter declare that America cannot long remain a super power with merely an all volunteer military. Paul Glastris, Phillip Carter join me now.

Also joining us, gentleman, if it's OK with you, is General David Grange, our military analyst. We're a little bit pinched for time, do you mind a 4-way discussion here, if you will?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A general outranks a journalist anyday. DOBBS: Well, it certainly in the case of General David Grange, by a wide, wide margin.

It's good to have you all here.

Let me turn first, if I may, Phillip, to the reason for reinstating the draft, simply because we've had a shortfall here temporarily, what would be the reason for suggesting the draft?

PHILLIP CARTER, JOURNALIST: Well, I don't think it's the current shortfall, but the long view that makes us suggest it. You see, for the last century or so, every 10 or 20 years, this country has had to send half a million men or more around the world in its pursuit of national security. And I think we have to put those structures in place to produce that force now before the need becomes acute.

DOBBS: And Paul, you concur with that, obviously, as the coauthor. But the idea of a draft, I think back to the tremors that went through society during Vietnam. And the removal of the draft, young men and women sighing with relief. Do you really want to bring that back? Is there a way to ensure it's absolutely equitable?

PAUL GLASTRIS, JOURNALIST: I think the draft like military fighting itself has to change with the times. And we don't need the mass conscription for combat that we had in World War II or the inequitable draft in Vietnam. What we need is a 21st Century draft that basically says all young people, college-bound people ought to serve their country, either in a civilian role, or if they choose a military role.

If you did that, and some portion of those who chose mandatory national service chose the military, then you would have volunteers, because they chose military service over other kinds of service in numbers that I think would provide the peacekeeping forces, the large number of peacekeepers, truck drivers and MPS that are currently missing from the force, the surge capacity that the military from time to time needs, so that you wouldn't have to raise the size of the current active-duty force, which is right now about fine for the task.

DOBBS: I'm not sure I would agree with you on that one. Let's find out what General David Grange says about this. I know, Dave, you have some strong feelings on these issues.

BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, (RET) CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Right, Lou. I don't like the draft as was, the antiquated draft of the past. It won't fit today's world or the people of the United States. But some type of national service, where you have flexibility from say ages 18 to 28, so in a ten-year span, you can pick how you will serve your country, men and women, equitable, all types of people throughout the country, and then for each year you give in some type of service, you're rewarded with education or another benefit, that way you can sustain this fight. I believe we're already past a critical point and somehow we got to get more people, but not the old-type draft.

DOBBS: It's interesting that General Grange agrees with you gentlemen and your article that's appearing in "Washington Monthly," because obviously the Pentagon led by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is vehemently opposed to the view of not only the draft, but the fact that we would need more people. Paul, you just said, you think we're at about the right force level. Square that up a little bit with a call for a draft.

GLASTRIS: We're at the right force level to fight combat. We're not at the -- we can win wars with the forces we have. We can not secure the peace with the forces we have. I'm all for, perhaps, upping the size of the active-duty military, if the military thinks that's what's important. But I think these military gentlemen with me will say that, that there's a limit how many -- how big the active duty -- all-volunteer military can be. And what is needed is not more infantrymen, more combat soldiers. What is -- what is needed is search capacity in this peacekeeping function. And that I think you can get in no way better than in this 21st century draft that we're talking about.

DOBBS: Phillip, the idea of burden-sharing in this country, it is without question and perhaps has always been so, but we have the capacity now to right past wrongs, the burdens are not equally shared in this society of ours. Is the draft a way, national service a way to bring about an equal sacrifice from all elements, members of society in this nation?

CARTER: Yes, Lou, I think that's one of it's greatest virtues. You know, today the burden is deep, but it's not wide. You have communities like Oceanside, California, home to Camp Pendleton and the Marines or the 1st Mech, that are taking one-sixth of the total fatalities from Iraq. That's a staggering amount, but it's being borne by one small -- part of America.

And our democracy depends on constituencies to make anything happen in Washington. When such a narrow part of the country bears the cost of war, our Democratic system really breaks down and it suffers. So I think spreading the burden more equitably will do a lot to make our nation embrace this cause. And will also do a lot more to help our leaders in Washington understand the true cost of it.

DOBBS: And each of us focusing strongly on the decisions taken in Washington, because we know we will be taking responsibility.

General David Grange, you get a quick last word, if you will, sir.

GRANGE: The last thing I'd like to say, is that the active-duty side of the force is also too small. You need a professional cadre of the right size to take on these global requirements.

DOBBS: Phillip Carter, Paul Glastris, we thank you for your provocative article in "Washington Monthly." General Grange, as always, good have you here.

GRANGE: Thank you.

DOBBS: Next a look at some of "Your thoughts" on the illegal immigration crisis facing this country. Please stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Taking a look now at some of "Your Thoughts."

Tim O'Hara in Ocean City, New Jersey, "First we had NAFTA and we lost jobs to Mexico. Now they want CAFTA and we will lose jobs to Central America. Next is HAFTA, that is when you have HAFTA go to another country to get a job."

And Marilyn in Clinton, Connecticut, "Maybe if we stopped sending our jobs overseas we could have people in the U.S. working and paying into Social Security, which would help keep Social Security a bit more secure. Also, if we stopped giving money to people illegally entering our country we might even be able to fix Medicaid."

And Michael Kramer in Lake Worth, Florida, "I believe that we can curtail the use of illegal aliens in this country by fining the companies that use them. If the risk to these companies is great enough they will seek legal means to hire these people. This must be part of any legislation that the government will enact to rectify this problem."

Send us "Your Thoughts" at loudobbs@cnn.com. We love to hear from you. Still ahead the results of our poll tonight, and preview of what's ahead tomorrow. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Now the results of our poll tonight, 79 percent of you responding say, all Americans should share responsibility for the cost of government and military service. Twenty-one percent have a problem with that.

Thanks for being with us tonight, please join us here tomorrow. I'll be talking with one border state congressman, who says our southern border is under siege from illegal aliens and vulnerable to terrorist as well. And in our weekly feature, celebrating the men and women who served. One soldiers quick reaction saving his unit from disaster. We'll have his incredible story. All that and a great deal -- a great deal more tomorrow.

Please be with us. For all of us here, good night from New York, "ANDERSON COOPER" 360 is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

Interesting discussion, but don't you think you should wait for an actual draft before you hang them out to dry?

Depends on how much below the needed level recruitment falls by May. You know, and I know it takes time to train a new force, if this current plunge in new recruits is coupled with troops getting out because they've fulfilled their obligation,
then this draft will occur.What does Bush care, he doesn't have to run for re-election?
I had heard a different option over a month ago, to change the 24 months of active duty to 24 month continous combat service. That way they could send a lot of troops back even if they've already served 2 terms of 12 months each with a break back stateside,and make them serve ANOTHER 24 months of combat.
I think that could result in a military coup, or at minimum disertions,MASSIVE DISERTIONS!

Well...it is going to be dicey. We will have to see how it all pans out over the next several months. We can't train the Iraqi Security Forces fast enough.

And they can't keep from getting targeted by the insurgents fast enough...as soon as we train them, they die by being ambushed.

This is a RETIRED general talking about national service.

I am opposed to even that but lets say it goes thorugh.

If you do not want to go into the mil. go into sorme other branch of the gov.

This also sounds a lot like Rangles bill that was crushed last fall.

Frenchy

Train Iraqi's, give it a rest Frenchy.

Da_n I know your memory of the Nam is not dead, look how we trained the ARVN's and PF'S --that went excellent -- waste of free-kin time and a lot of good American blood. It's the same same Bro' - nothing changes! Not a da_n free-kin thing, the politicians lie and the G.I.'S die. You want to buy into this training Iraqi BS, be my guest Bro'. Buy into it and you become just like the rest of the sheople in this land.

You tell me how those Iraqi freedom (LOL) fighters are going to stand up to the enemy that already killed 1500 Americans? It is going to be another expensive - money wise and life wise - joke on Uncle Sammy's sheople.

Frenchy I had to go on a few operations with the American trained ARVN'S - LOL - and personally think that any frontline G.I. that has to fight side by side with these American trained and bought - LOL--Iraqi's will have to learn how to shoot both ways. At the enemy in front and the trained Iraqi's running the fudge away!

The Cambodia exist strategy, would be devastating in Iraq. Cambodia had very little strategic importance globally. Doing a cut and run in Iraq could unsettle the entire Middle East for 50 years, and oil supply this country depends upon. Bush
and his Neo Cons bet the house on this war, and the dice are still rolling.

Said it before and will say it again. I do not have one free-kin problem with a "DRAFT", especially a fair one like Charles Rangles proposed http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:h.r.163:

Reason being, most sheople here in the good ol' U.S. of A. do not give a sheet. Why??? It don't effect them - so friggit. Let those silver spoon fortunate sons and daughters get their azz's into "SHRUB'S" fiasco and bang--people will get involved and take some da_n action ---guaran--free-kin-teed!

Bring that Draft on like Charles Rangles proposed it and I guarantee you will see some sheople that get sheared and become wolves overnight. I think we need a draft like Rangles to wake this country the fudge up. Then we will see how popular the "SHRUB" fiasco is and how many Yellow Magnetic Ribbons are on the sheople's SUVs. Bring the SOB on ! The "SHRUB" would sheet a brick -- LOL!

It was a discussion on lou Dobbs. I am completely against the freakin' draft at any time. It didn't work in Nam and it sure as heck isn't going to work in Iraq.

The Iraqi people need to step up to the plate and if they don't then it's time to reevaluate our continued presence.

I don't think Bush will support the draft because his daughters would be eligiable. Just my thought.

If recruiting is down then it's time to increase the pay package for those in harms way and offer some very attractive benefits instead of takin' them away.

marie

As Bush is trying to really HARD sell his Social Security privatization to young voters, I hope this NEW draft concept gets tons of air time on Lou Dobbs, he loves getting his teeth in a story and bludgeoning day after day for months,years.Look at his daily recriminations about immigration and outsourcing. Keep it up Lou!

Thanks for starting this thread underbear -

I missed this one when it aired on CNN.

Lou Dobbs is my new hero. That man will not back down!

- Exporting America
- Nation without borders

He won't take crap from the self-appointed know-it-alls.

Here is my 2 cents:
The only draft I would accept is one where the nation goes to work like WWII, but instead of making war equipment, we make new energy technology, to set the USA free from oil dependence! Let's "redistribute the wealth" back to this country!

Thanks for the post and the transcript. I was watching Dobbs last night but fell asleep before the draft discussion (have a bad cold). Dobbs talked about why he was having the discussion: recruitment was down by 27%- or 27% below target.

Bammo- I know you are right- no one is going to squeal enough to stop this madness until they have a vested interest (as in the lives of their children)....... but, damn, I do not want my kid going over to fight for Bushco !

And someone mentioned Rangel's bill and women in the military- not gonna happen. The Supremes have already ruled on that one. Conscription can be only male. It's legal.

Pie

Hey there Pie, whats happening ? LOL

I'll be straight and right up front with my personal oppinion and what I see from this DRAFT BS that is on everyones mind.

I think this Draft BS is a ploy and a smokescreen by the "SHRUB" Chickenhawk brigade. Like JK'S Vietnam service, look how the "SHRUB'S" campaign team threw that BS out there and I have to say JK and his team took the bait and ran.

The "SHRUB" has nothing to lose if he does not have a Draft or does have one. This is his second term -- last hoorah. The next man or woman that finds their way in the White Hooch just might have to have some kind of Draft to get the military back up to par from the "SHRUB" wreckin' ball. Then this person will be a bum - and people will come down heavy on said person.

Or maybe he does have a Draft - near the end of his 4. And he gets the piaster ($$$$) to another neo con like himself maybe his Bro' (Florida) and says we will end this Draft and fix the military in the U.S. - and plug it until the free-kin cows come home. Then the "SHRUB" still has power like "SHRUB'S" daddy still has big time power.

Thats why I am for bringing the SOB'in Draft right on, now - no exceptions. Silverspoons, fortunate sons and daughters - everyone that can hold down a military job goes for the "SHRUB" fiasco.

My point being that it will definately -- and I mean big time definately get the Yellow Magnetic Ribbon Patriotic Sheople of this country that support this little dictator to wake the he_l up and get off their azz's and protest and write and do what they can to take back their country.

That Draft turned this country upside down during the late Nam years (late 60's and early 70's) didn't it. This government was listening to its people then and not like now --silent sheople. That is why I support the Draft now - to wake some sleepin' dogs the he_l up to find out where their yard really is.

Pie, you be well and hang tough friend.

Bammo, SS is the only thing that has seemed to get people in an uproar over Bushco so far. I fear that even a draft would take years [read: (more) thousands of deaths] before the sheople would rise up. Most people seem so self-absorbed now.

keep speaking the truth

Pie

I hear you there Pie, for sure friend.
same ol' American Way - "As long as it don't effect me" attitude.

Remember a line from the movie Platoon, Pie - W. DaFoe to C. Sheen - We been kickin' everyones azz for a long time, time for us to get our azz kicked." The "SHRUB" could care less as long as there is power and profit in it for him and his Chickenhawk Bro's!

Made sense to me--never forgot it friend. You be well Pie - keep the faith