Thanks to whoever suggested I read the book "Chickenhawk". I remember hearing all these atrocities but this author takes you right into the action. I would like to hear others with similar experiences of those who would like to share. I understand it is not easy. I have to say, after reading this book, I have the utmost respect and totally different view of the men who served in Vietnam. I still feel Kerry understood, perhaps not as much as others in this book. Why didn't we learn? What is wrong with these war-mongers today? Bush or his daughters should go into the front lines.
Thanks to all the men & women who served in VietNam.

I have not read this book Kra/Lee, but it certainly sounds like a good read. Kerry was right to come back from 'Nam to help shut that worthless war down... and he stood up to those chickenhawks in Congress about it. I salute Kerry.

The very same low life republicans and neocons who generated that lie war in Vietnam has spread it's connections into this Iraq mess in the Middle East. It's about power and control and all the profits they make from these lie wars. Many of these slimeball politicians, who themselves, have not served in war... are anxious to place others in war zones... knowing that they and many of their family memebers will not have to deal with the suffering and all the consequences of all that war inflicts upon the body and mind.

These political war mongers that you speak of are after one thing only... the money / power that they are able to steal as results of such war(s). As long as neocons has comforts in life, they will continue their mad marches at the espense of the poor souls who makes up the backbone of a country such as America. Those who join such forces are brainwashed and given shinny medals for their deeds. It's what inflates their shallow minds... floats their boats... gives them their own recognition in their own little worlds. That is why a monster such as BushCo can keep on operating... as the weak minded falls for their tricks and does their dirty deeds.

A country is supposed to have it's armed forces for defense.... not offense. Those are the true warriors in who 'defends' a country and not support war on other countries for the profts of war. Vietnam eventually became a war supported by draftees.... who fought it hard... and then lived with the consequences later. They were forced to fight it or else...no choice other than to leave to Canada. Many of us did not do that, being that we did for our country what our country called upon us to do. It was those of us who brought back home the knowledge of how such 'lie' wars are so wrong. It's up to the ppl to listen to that knowledge, and not follow the greedy lies in politics. Unfortunately today, ignorance is deep seeded into America now... as we all slide down that slipperly slope to total destruction. We have passed 'go' and now the end begins.

Oh my, methinks there be a bit of revisionist history being posted, eh? Might be we oughta try to keep the record straight, though methinks 'tmight ruffle a feather or two,

Let's see, methinks 'twas actually Truman that got us involved through materiel support when the French left, then Ike put in American advisors whose numbers never exceeded more than methinks 900 or so, but then maybe the 16,000 (including Special Forces units and Seal teams, many operating independent of ARVN units) President Kennedy sent in, after McNamara advised it, might actually be considered a troop deployment as described by Noam Chomsky and others, eh? 'Tis true that we didn't deploy troop levels exceeding 100,000 until after the Johnson administration and McNamara arranged for passage of the bogus Gulf of Tonkin Resolution (after their sensationalised or outright fabrication of the Tonkin Gulf incident), but why quibble eh?

Methinks you might like to peruse Gulf of Tonkin Incident which states the following:

According to the official description, increased U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War came in 1964, with a program of covert South Vietnamese operations, designed to impose "progressively escalating pressure" upon the North, and initiated on a small and essentially ineffective scale in February. The active U.S. role in the few covert operations that were carried out was limited essentially to planning, equipping, and training of the South Vietnamese forces involved, but U.S. responsibility for the launching and conduct of these activities was unequivocal and carried with it an implicit symbolic and psychological intensification of the U.S. commitment.

Noam Chomsky, among others, disputes the above sequence of events, contending that active military US involvement actually began as early as 1961 (with operations beginning in 1962) and that the August 4 incident was in fact a fabrication, crafted by the Johnson administration so the U.S. could claim, for the benefit of the American public, that the North Vietnamese bore full guilt for starting open hostilities.

'Twould seem President Kennedy decided to draw the line in South Vietnam after his disasterous summit with Kruschev and let McNamara persuade him to escalate our involvement to a degree that locked us in. Consequently methinks I've put the blame right where it belongs, eh? Yeah, let's keep the record straight!

Maybe the gentleman is trying to tell you JFK was a neocon and a republican Doc? Wouldn't that upset Teddy?

Must be the case 'cause methinks whatever else LBJ was, 'twasn't one of them, eh?

Ghostgovt is talking about former Nixon adminstration currently involved in the Bush administration. I know you guys understand that.
Vets attacking Vets this is sad.

He is? 'Tain't what he said, eh? How are we supposed to know that when he says something entirely different?

Methinks we was involved in the 'Nam long before Nixon took office, in fact I'm sure of it!Nah, being loose with history, for whatever reason, is what's sad, whether a vet or vets are involved methinks really don't enter into it.

'Twas mighty nice of you to come to his defense tho, methinks he'll appreciate it.

As to vets attacking vets, what attack? Correcting a mistatement is an attack? Methinks we've seen vets saying far more serious things 'bout other vets here and you never piped in then, but this bothered you? Hmm..........

wliberty,
Need not waste your breath with these shrub lovers, they love jerkin' themselves off to their own programmed tunes. Solid vets know what I am saying here.

LBJ was a ballonhead Texas Repub butt kisser which tagged him as a neocon. He was part of the little scheme that was going on during the early '60s. Cuba became the GOP big corp target and Nixon, along with the grand/daddy Bushes, wanted to sink Cuba for resisting big corp US. JFK pulled the plug on that scheme, upsetting Nixon to the max. Prior, Ike and his 'inside' buddies all got this 'nam war crap lined up for the next young generation of kids in the '60s to deal with, but it was really both Bushes and Nixon who quietly pushed it to the max as well. JKF also did not want anymore part of this 'Nam scam and was going to pull the plug on it as well. JFK paid dearly for this with his life. LBJ then simply eased himself into the prez's spot and lived out his cowboy image behind that politically lost 'lie' war, while rubbing elbows with the repubs and other neocons. He was just another warped Texas ego playing politics under GOP guided instructions and being a WH playboy. LBJ's health failed him in the process and it was time for him to seek 'peace' in his final days on his ranch. This eventually opened the new door for Nixon to become the 'commander in thief' and push his own gobbleygook version for claiming fame with leaving 'Nam with honor (HA!) in it's mess! It was nothing but a "Tricky Dicky' regime crammed full of political scumbags.... then... and more so now today!!

wliberty, these lifers here means nothing.... don't sweat the small stuff .... solid vets holds a bond that forever exists between them and nothing that lifers says puts a tiny dent into it. Trust me on that one.

I agree and that's the way I heard and remembered history. Although I am not an expert as you people who fought in the V. war. I certainly remember Johnson. I had had enough of him on the T.V. whining about how he had to sacrifice our men for the cause of freedom. What cause? A useless ego trip war for Johnson.

Big 10/4 on that one Kra/Lee!

LBJ had a lot of help by other radical repubs and neocons too... but he personally wanted that RVN trophy bad and it bit him squarely on the rump...right to his grave. I hope the same happens to these bastards who pushes this Iraq mess!!!

'Nam killed many hundreds of 1000s vets post war .... and I know of some close to buying the farm over it now. Sad after 30 years that war still claims victims from it. You should read how many lives are also still affected in SE Asia because of that 'lie' war. I sense something even worse coming from the Middle East debacle in the future. Repubs are too damn stupid to know better though... but that's why there's those who knows and those who crows.

You said it! Pubs are too damn stupid. The sad part is that no one learns from war. Why? It seems all they learn is new technology on how to kill better!

Basically, greed and ignorance drives all that 'they' do in life... and wars are used to create costly diversions while 'they' do more of their dirty work behind our backs. This entire operation is about controlling the minds of others. The neoconic repubs are maniac idiots who now have mastered the art of dumbing down the American voter while suckin them dry of their monies. Shame on American ppl who have allowed this to get this far! We are at the mercy of anything and everything that will happen to us now. The train has left the station... the boat has sailed... the crap has hit the fan. What you smell is repubs barfing all around us in their own stupidity.... but they still have their faithfull followers..... the weak minded. It's those weak minds that are so easilly controlled. Wait until we get the new revised Patriot Act that puts us right back to a Nazi Germany rule. We'll witness a more policed state stepped up a few notches in the next few years. Keep your eyes open on that situation.... it's happening.