http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleID.184...icle_detail.asp

This article leaves me speechless at least for words I would be allowed to print. I look forward to the day this group of liars are exposed and brought to their knees. It can't happen a day too soon for me. What a poor excuse for human beings they are.

 
"In the end, the Swift Boat vets raised more than $26 million and took their message directly to the public with a grassroots advertising and personal testimony campaign. Their first ads appeared in early August when Kerry was leading the Presidential race. They were widely credited with reversing that lead, which Kerry never won back."


Holy cow! $26 million is nothing to sneeze at, is it? Those ads sure came with a hefty price tag didn't they? Do you suppose they have any of the money left for their next campaign?

KT

Funny how anyone can think we're better off with the lying coward we have in office now. Their stupidity amazes me.

It is disgraceful that stuff like this can actually be printed.

The Media was "pro-Kerry" and a reporter wouldn't publish it because it would help Bush

These people have their own special place in hell reserved for them.

Those dirty filthy cowards! I'd like to see all those swiftboat vets exposed for atrocities they committed in VietNam. I'll bet they aren't guilt free! A counter article should be posted against them.

When I posted the article earlier this morning I was just sick. Looking forward to more of your comments.

These worthless swifties represents the majority of repub mindsets that backs this sorry arse govt today. They profit off slimmin' others. They all need dealt with. This was not only a smear slam against JF Kerry himself, but also millions of Americans and vets.



Always know who your enemies are out there..... they care nothing about you or your welfare.

s-c-uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuum!


This is a slap in the face of sane Americans. I can't even find the words to comment on the MSM. Where is the puke emoticon?

The lies of John O'Neill: An MMFA analysis
Swift Boat Vets' founder has told repeated untruths about himself, Swift Boat Vets, Unfit for Command
For the past several weeks, John E. O'Neill has lied repeatedly about himself, his organization, and his book. He's lied about being a Republican from Texas, lied about his political involvement, lied about his ties to the Nixon White House, lied about his campaign contributions, lied about his co-author, and lied about the makeup of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT), the anti-Kerry group he founded.

O'Neill lied when he said Swift Boat Vets "have no partisan ties"; member in new ad was Bush-Cheney campaign official

O'Neill said on CNN on August 11, "[T]he people in our organization have no partisan ties, we didn't campaign in the last four elections for Democrats, by and large we didn't campaign for anybody."

That's a lie. The new Swift Boat Veterans for Truth advertisement, unveiled August 20, features Ken Cordier criticizing Kerry. Cordier is identified in the ad as "P.O.W., Dec. 1966 - Mar. 1973."

But Cordier isn't just a former prisoner of war. He was also a member of the Bush-Cheney '04 National Veterans Steering Committee until controversy over his dual role with the campaign and the SBVT led to his resignation. The Bush-Cheney '04 campaign website suddenly -- mysteriously -- omits Cordier's name from the list of Steering Committee members, presumably in an effort to hide ties between the campaign and this 527 advertising. But images from a cached copy of the page, as well as a list of committee members, prove his membership.

Cordier was also named to a Bush administration POW Advisory Committee.

Cordier's involvement with the Bush campaign is not a new development. In September 2000, Dick Cheney personally announced Cordier's selection as Vice-Chair of the Veterans for Bush-Cheney '00.

O'Neill lied about being a "Republican from Texas"

During an August 12 appearance on MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews, O'Neill claimed, "I'm not a Republican from Texas. That's just not true."

O'Neill is, in fact, from Texas. And he has given more than $14,000 in federal contributions to Republican candidates and causes since 1990, including $1,000 to George H. W. Bush in 1992. And he hasn't made any federal contributions to Democratic candidates or causes during that time. And he voted in the 1998 Republican state primary.

O'Neill lied

I wrote to the subject of the lying swift boaters before the election. My duties in the Nam included opportunities to interact with some of the swift boat crews. We Army personnel had little or no respect for the so called combat navy patrols with only a few exceptions, most of these weenies would cut and run, rather than fight. I did know of J.Kerry’s unit, I believe his were some of the only navy personnel that developed a good reputation with our Army units. I can say with confidence that swiftboaters reputation within Vietnam was dubious at best. I believe that the service they are now providing is about as un-American as it gets. To be the vehicle of misdirecting the American people is to offer aid and comfort to America’s enemies, it’s treason.
IMPEACH BUSH

[b]Methinks people should be a bit careful 'bout who they put down and how. Somebody might do a bit of checkin' and call you on it, eh? I wasn't in that area, but knew folks who served with them and they told an entirely different story!

First of all, are ya callin' these folks cowards that "cut and run"? For a fairly small unit that only existed for a short time methinks they paid a heavy price.

'Twould seem there be some Army folks thought differently than you, eh? Could be their sense of reality wasn't quite so clouded as yers seems ta be, eh?

Then methinks there were also citations that told a bit different story than you, like this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one and others you can search out for yourself, but methinks you'll get my drift.

'Twould seem that tryin' hard to blow smoke only shows one to be a blow hard, eh? Doubt even Bammo would condone this.

Allow me to introduce you to a few of those No-Load Swift Boaters...

They Screwed-Off in the Cua Viet/Dong Ha Resupply and Interdiction a bit too...

This is the remains of PCF 43 in the Dung Keo Canal; April 12, 1969:


Thanks... a Cua Viet River Vet!

I hate to even think this about another vet, much less say it, but you come across as a complete waste of perfectly good air! What gives you the right to say anything about what the coastal Navy squadrons did? From my perspective they were brave, pulling many a Marine's bacon out of the fire.

Now I have to question your honesty, nothing you said above rings true with my memories of the Nam in 1968 and 1969!

He's referring to John O'Neill and the rest of his lying crowd, flydangler.

How many tours did you do in Vietnam?

A lot of those guys in the SwiftBoat Veterans for Truth club only did one and they stayed out of the fight as much as they could.

You're aware that John O'Neill lied about Kerry, aren't you?

That's not what he said though brad, I went back and read it again real close and it was a general statement against Swift Boats.

There you go again, making stuff up and bad mouthing a Vet to suit your agenda. Anyone who went to Vietnam deserves to be honored for their services to this country.

Personally, I think the swift boat veterans for truth should have been castigated for what they said about John Kerry's Vietnam service. You say anything about somebody who earned the respect they deserve fighting for this country you ain't a bit different from the swifties.

You, above all people, haven't got the right to cast espersions upon anyones military record.

And then again methinks his silence on it here indicates he might, eh?


What would this guy think, eh?

If Kerry's not going to do anything about them, maybe we could brainstorm and come up with something!

I have heard they are going to go after Kerry even harder if he runs again in '08... and you can tell from my signature line how I feel about that

So lets get this back on topic about the Swift Boaters for truth.

I posted the topic for all CGCS members and bloggers to read what the other side writes. Refocus upon the topic of the influence Swiftboaters believe they have please. Thanx.

and Fine, but don't be surprised when you get unwanted responses when anyone makes unfounded derogatory remarks about veterans and their service. That'll mean you folks will have to stay fair and vigilant too, eh?

Since this site is supposedly nonpartisan and dedicated to using common sense to find common ground methinks that'd be the best way to approach this subject, eh? 'Twould seem to do that ya gotta resist the temptation to go with rhetoric and hyperbole. We'll see if that's possible here. I'll start by posting my opinions, none of which are made as statements of fact unless so identified and supporting links provided, eh?

Methinks 'twould be more accurate and useful looking at what the SBVT group did in comparison to other 527 groups. IMHO they were no more or less partisan and accurate than other supposedly nonpartisan organizations like moveon.org, eh? Tho it's down right now, the truly nonpartisan factcheck.org did reasonably good assessments of what these type of groups promulgated, and none faired too well methinks.

To me 'tis evident these groups were formed to circumvent the new restrictions the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law brought into the political arena. Watching subsequent FEC hearings on CSPAN dealing with this 'twas evident operatives of both political parties serving on the Commission only wanted to maintain the status quo by not dealing with it. Their efforts tied the FEC's hands on the matter. Methinks you may see new legislation introduced to deal with it, and expect members of both parties try to derail any such efforts.

IMHO during the last election the two major protagonists dealt with the efforts differently, if at all. In the case of the SBVT activity the delay in responding and minimal response when it did occur was a major factor. 'Twas strange how one avid Kerry supporter, Xinloi who served with Kerry on the boats and is a former mod here, refuted many of the SBVT claims on the old K/E forum, but never addressed others. Just the same 'twould seem he did more to combat the SBVT efforts than Kerry or his campaign did, eh?

So, be this the type of discussion you were looking for, or do you prefer what bsb seems to want to continue?

Your threatening demeaner does nothing for me, the topic will stay on the Swift Boat Veterans that is what this topic is about, if you wish to discuss anything else I'd suggest you start another topic on it.

Any comments will be dealt with in a nonpartisan manner. Personally as a veteran the SBFT make me ill, but that was an on topic response, and just because someone served doesn't mean they are above reproach.

Okay, using your guidelines it gets shorter, eh? Methinks the SBVT ran some ads, Kerry and his campaign blew their chance to respond, Kerry lost!

Methinks that's more like what you were looking for?

:offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic:

c'mon guys - the swifties were a factor in the last election, and they are still alive and well and strong. I believe this thread was started to discuss them.

Some of us just want to discuss how to handle them because I'm sure they will continue to be a thorn in our side, whether you agree with them or not.

I do believe your right on topic.

I know you some of you vets want me to post my 214 so you right wingers can do as you did with J Kerry’s 214, throw verbal darts until you’ve changed the story.
It ain’t going to happen. I don’t need you or anyone to reminded me of some of the sorry crap I was witness to. The reality of my experience will not change with some posts favoring one perspective or another. I saw what I saw, I experienced the consequences of cowardly navy personnel directly and have a disability I live with to prove it. I had to present these facts to the VA once for my disability and I will not relive these moments for you or anyone but my children, (they need the benefit of my experience). I can leave all that lay except for one point, the VVWA and the crap we did to the Vietnamese people. It’s the swift boat position on VVAW that pisses me off, to have my experience’s, and have to watch these lying fools try and destroy this honorable organization, it’s "expletive deleted", that says it all for me. I know that as with any military group, there are going to be some good people and some bad people. I know that some swift boaters are bound to be honorable, but as a group they are what they are, loud unpatriotic fools who have needlessly brought contempt to their own organization from many vets because they believe they are holier than the rest of us. With a total disregard for common decency and the truth, they are a scourge on our culture.

Methinks the thoughts of one avid Kerry supporter, Xinloi who served with Kerry on the boats and is a former mod here, might be something to consider if the powers that be deem it on topic. 'Twould seem if ya read this note, this note and this note a better understanding of the issue might be had, eh? 'Twould seem more to the point than the post above.

It's my personal opinion none of these groups should get the time of day, I think they are all reprehensible and anyone who subscribes to the vile crap they put forth should be told what they are; muckracking, lying, scum-sucking, sensationalist(you listening brad?). None of it belongs in politics and if the tit for tat game wasn't so important to some people these kind of allegations wouldn't get them any mileage.

John Kerry should have responded to the swiftie with a simple, "it ain't so, and I got the metals to prove it" , BUT, on the other side the muckraking, lying, scum-sucking, sensationalist shouldn't be playing the same game with Bush's guard record.

No bodies service should be questioned 30-35 years after the fact.

'Twould seem part of the problem is that some here don't seem to understand who we be talkin' 'bout and who we're not. "The Swift Boat Sailors Association" was not part of this, it's "The Swift Boat Veterans For Truth" that are associated with those ads and the campaign, eh? They ain't the same and methinks any attempt to rightfully denounce the actions of one and its members that ends up making unfounded accusations against the other including allegations of cowardice need to be called!

Something needs to be added here, if the PRESS was doing it’s job, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Kerry dropped the ball, so did I along with the American free press. I believe it’s their job to find the facts and put them in front of the American people. We all should have been loud and fast in response to the lies, even if it was not our job. Honesty should be the rule not the exception. The United States of America comes first.
fly, that is a good point your making.

Oh, I know that Doc.

When someone purports to be a fraternal organization and is really a political organization is where trouble starts. They shame themselves using a title to deceive people of their true purpose. They should have named themselves Swift Boat Veterans to elect George Bush. Their truth isn't any better that the other sides truth and is phoney to name themselves that.

I read most of the article, and I have to give the guy some credit. He thinks he was doing what was right for the country, and he put it on the line. His viewpoint is different then a few, but it wasn't a for Bush campaign plot. It was all about no for Kerry. To automatically dismiss him as a liar is a bit too harsh.

StillMadAtBush -

I'm a fair guy. I read what he wrote as well and most of what he said is not right. There are 2 different Swift Boat organizations. But, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth political group have lied so much about a highly decorated Vietnam War combat veteran (you listening Tex) that they have caused anyone who was a veteran in the swift boats that served in Vietnam to be smeared with the same broad brush.

I defended John Kerry during the campaign. I defended his military service. Yet, even though the election is over, his military service record is still attacked. I will continue to defend John Kerry's military service record.

Me too!!!!!!!!!!

And that is what you, John Kerry, me, and anybody else ought to be doing is saying what these people said ain't so. You start the tit for tat business and you won't be any better than those people.

Dígame por favor usted finalmente entiende. ¿Comprende?

It's pretty obvious to the blind who you're sniping, Jack.

Methinks I still gotta wonder a bit at the premise of this topic. Are we supposed to reflect on it in a partisan manner, as it seems most here have done, figuring how Democrat candidates and the party faithful should address SBVFT's continuing activities, or from a nonpartisan standpoint?

Since, as the site's Mission Statement indicates and Sandra has stated elsewhere, this is not a partisan site so 'twould seem looking at it from a nonpartisan standpoint would be more appropriate. Am I wrong?

'Twould seem, looking at it in a historical context, if a candidate and campaign chose not to bother dealing with these attacks methinks why would we want or need to concern ourselves?How long have you felt this way? Methinks your entry in the BROWNWATER NAVY IN VIETNAM GUESTBOOK might indicate you mighta once felt differently, eh?

Hind sight being what it is... I honestly believe Kerry was leaning on the Nam service a bit heavily... before the pond scum fermented...

I'm no political campaign manager but if you are going to lean on service that you performed that long ago (no disrespect intended) it's going to open a can-o-worms for you and lots of opportunities for your foes..... somebody's got to be looking out.

It seems the team got walluped by a sucker punch that took the wind from the sails.... somebody's got to have alternatives planned other than a last minute peasant hunt.

What that "group" did was below worm sh!t, but it was totally missed.

Will it happen again.. you bet... what's that boy scout motto?
Be prepared...

hows that for reflection?

The Swift boat nonsense built relentlessly in the mainstream media so that by mid August all the FCC regulated media---tv and radio was saturated by Swift boat accusations punctuated by orange alerts. They convinced me of one thing ----- that the mainstream media was in the tank for Bush.

Methinks this story indicates some politicians be smart enough to deal with the SBVFT type campaigns, eh?

She's a smart one alright.... she'll also need to break from the safety and comfort of Westchester New York to be a viable candidate in 2008.

A toad could run on the Democratic Ticket in NY and win....

I wouldn't want to get on her bad side

Careful with that kind of thinking, that was assumed in 2004 also.

My point is.....

It's a New York thing... the Democratic political machine here luls politicans into complacency..... Anyone running for a circular shaped office... needs face time outside of Chappaqua and DC.

But I'm sure it's on her list of to do's

[quote=flydangler,Mar 30 2005, 09:40 AM]
and Fine, but don't be surprised when you get unwanted responses when anyone makes unfounded derogatory remarks about veterans and their service. That'll mean you folks will have to stay fair and vigilant too, eh?


True enough. The swifties' charges got 24/7 exposure on all the talk and news shows. Moveon.org ads were sometimes rejected by MSM and most discussion about them was regarding how bad 527's are not on the issues they raise.

In my media I would like to see the swifties balanced by equal time for the Dixie Chicks for Truth

You got to check this puppy out on those Swiftboat Scum That smeared JK!!








Media Research Center honored Swift Boat Veterans for "courage" during the 2004 campaign

Media Research Center honored Swift Boat Veterans for "courage" during the 2004 campaign

As part of its 2005 "DisHonors Awards" program on April 21, the Media Research Center (MRC) honored the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth with the "Conservative of the Year" award for their "courageous role in the 2004 presidential campaign." MRC president L. Brent Bozell III presented the award to Swift Boat Veterans co-founder John O'Neill, who accepted it on behalf of the group.

Had Media Matters for America been invited to the awards ceremony, we might have learned exactly what the group did during the campaign to merit the term "courageous." For our part, Media Matters documented the group's numerous (here, here, and here) smears and falsehoods against John Kerry in the form of ads, print, and TV and radio appearances. Editorials across the country denounced the ads run by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, and Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) called on President Bush to condemn the ads.

The judges for this year's MRC "DisHonors Awards," which mocked "the most outrageously biased liberal reporters of 2004," included Ann Coulter, John Fund, Lucianne Goldberg, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin, Robert Novak, Kate O'Beirne, Cal Thomas, and William F. Buckley.