Army Officers Criticize Rebuke of Gen. McChrystal

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0704056_pf.html

In the blog, attached to the story, I wrote:

President Obama is going to go with McChrystal-lite...
we used to call that "half-stepping" in our day.

(Then you'll know my WaPo name...if ya care to.)

someone else in that blog got it right, not BP

garys_opinion wrote:
Sounds like Viet Nam. The politicians get involved and everything gets screwed up.
----

then this other person wrote, correctly-

Read some history. Polititians (Kennedy, Johnson, even Nixon) didn't want Viet Nam. They were misled by generals until it was too late. "Oh yes, we're winning...we just need a few more (thousand) troops..."

generals are wrong 100% of the time.
they have a biased interest (their livelihood, and these days, after it, being a talking fat head)

McChrystal should be fired for disrespecting the chain of command. He was not asked to speak out publicly.

The more the Warmongers talk the more Obama should reconsider. There are lives on the line. Lives and treasure.

I say all who want a rush to send more troops should sign up themselves. In fact for all celebrities who use the public airwaves and foment for more bloodshed it should not only be mandatory, but they should be sent to the front of the front lines.

Show us all how it's done. Eh?

Read some real history, graham ...

That is TOTAL CRAPOLA ...

The politicians called the shots in Viet Nam, not the generals, who were like poodle dogs on leashes in NYC ...

The politicians told us we were winning ....

And they got that from Bob McNamara and his band ...

Remember McNamara crying like a baby all those years later for all the young American lives that he wasted in Viet Nam?

The cowardly poodle dog generals went along with it so that they wouldn't be disrespectful to the stupids who were in there as commander in chief ....

How would you like to go into combat, graham, being led by some donkey like LBJ?

Or somebody like Barack Obama?

And so ...

You are damn right, TROU ....

And Obama placed them there back in July with his "OPERATION REAL TOUGH GUY" ....

And then, as could be predicted of a liberal, five minutes later, he became distracted by something else, and anyway, he thought that he had won, like George W. Bush ...

And now, TROU, those people are hanging there twisting in the wind because now, Obama doesn't know what to do ...

And you know who should be out there in front of everyone else, weapon in hand?

You got it, TROU ....

HUSSEIN Obama ....

He is the tough-talking dude who is telling us that this is a war of necessity ....

Given that, he should be over there, out in front, showing us all how it is done ...

Hell, if he goes like he should, maybe I'll put back on the uniform and follow him just to see how a real WARLEADER gets it on ....

I bet that it would be quite instructive, eh ....

And so ...

JULY 1965

Greene (Commandant of the United States Marine Corps) experienced conflicting feelings during the consultation with the (House Armed Services) committee members.

Sympathetic to his commander in chief in the April (1965) White House meetings, when LBJ seemed beseiged by opponents of the U.S. role in Vietnam, Greene was nonetheless "ASTOUNDED BY HOW FEW OF THE FACTS REGARDING THE SITUATION SEEMED TO BE KNOWN" to the people's representatives.

GREENE'S LOYALTY TO THE PRESIDENT AND RELUCTANCE TO CONTRADICT HIS COLLEAGUES (United States Military Joint Chiefs of Staff), HOWEVER, PREVENTED HIM FROM GIVING THE LEGISLATORS HIS FULL ASSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION.

Two hours after the meeting, he called John Blandford (House Armed Services Committee's chief counsel).

GREENE TOLD BLANDFORD WHAT HE DECLINED TO SAY IN THE MEETING.

THE UNITED STATES, GREENE SAID, WAS ON THE VERGE OF A "MAJOR WAR" THAT WOULD ULTIMATELY INVOLVE A MINIMUM OF FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND TROOPS.

THE WAR WOULD TAKE AT LEAST FIVE YEARS, AND THE UNITED STATES WOULD SUFFER A LARGE NUMBER OF CASUALTIES.

TO SET CONDITIONS FOR WINNING THE WAR, THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE TO UNDERTAKE AN "IMMEDIATE INTENSIFICATION" OF OPERATIONS AGAINST NORTH VIETNAM AND WITHIN SOUTH VIETNAM.

GREENE HAD GIVEN BLANDFORD PRIVATELY THE ASSESSMENT THAT THE CHIEFS HAD FAILED TO PROVIDE EITHER TO CONGRESS OR TO THE ADMINISTRATION.

WITH THE ADMINISTRATION DECEIVING THE PEOPLE AND CONGRESS ABOUT THE DEPTH OF THE AMERICAN MILITARY COMMITMENT IN VIETNAM, THE CHIEFS WERE IN A QUANDARY.

ALTHOUGH THE CONSTITUTION DESIGNATED THE PRESIDENT AS COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE MILITARY, EACH MEMBER OF THE JCS WAS SWORN TO "SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES."

THE CONSTITUTION CHARGED CONGRESS, AS REPRESENTATIVES OF THE PEOPLE, WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY TO DECIDE WHETHER TO DECLARE WAR.

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THROUGH THEIR REPRESENTATIVES IN CONGRESS, WERE TO DETERMINE WHETHER SOUTH VIETNAM'S "FREEDOM AND INDEPENDENCE" WAS WORTH THE COSTS AND RISKS.

WITH THE EXCEPTION OF GREENE (AND THEN ONLY IN PRIVATE TO A STAFF MEMBER), THE CHIEFS HAD DECIDED TO SUPPORT THEIR COMMANDER IN CHIEF BY MISREPRESENTING THEIR OWN ESTIMATES OF THE SITUATION IN VIETNAM.

GREENE FELT KEENLY THE TENSION BETWEEN LOYALTY TO THE PRESIDENT AND HIS RESPONSIBILITIES TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND HAD CHOSEN A MIDDLE COURSE OF PUBLICLY SUPPORTING THE ADMINISTRATION WHILE PRIVATELY PROVIDING HIS ACTUAL VIEWS TO THE CONGRESS.

THE CHIEFS' OBLIGATIONS TO THEIR SOLDIERS, AIRMEN, SAILORS, AND MARINES COMPLICATED ALREADY CONFLICTING RESPONSIBILITIES.

AS AMERICAN INVOLVEMENT IN THE WAR DEEPENED, LYNDON JOHNSON REMAINED DETERMINED TO DEPICT THE WAR VERY DIFFERENTLY FROM THE WAY THAT GREENE HAD DESCRIBED IT.

- Pages 311,312, Dereliction of Duty - Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, The Joint Chiefs of Staff, AND THE LIES THAT LED TO VIET NAM by H.R. McMaster

JULY 1965

In a meeting with the service secretaries and the JCS at noon on Saturday, July 24, McNamara outlined his plan to meet Westmoreland's request WITHOUT mobilization AND WITHOUT ASKING CONGRESS FOR SUFFICIENT FUNDING TO CARRY IT OUT.

MOBILIZATION, EXTENSION OF TOURS OF DUTY FOR THOSE ALREADY IN THE SERVICES, AND SUPPLEMENTAL FUNDING WOULD ALL REQUIRE LEGISLATIVE ACTION AND WERE, THEREFORE, REJECTED.

THE PRESIDENT WOULD DELAY ALL FUNDING REQUESTS UNTIL JANUARY 1966 AND THEN THE NEED WOULD BE UNDERSTATED BY HALF.

McNamara told the Chiefs that the program was designed to "reduce the political noise level in Communist China and the Soviet Union."

McDONALD CHALLENGED HIM IMMEDIATELY, ASSERTING THAT THE DECISION WAS BASED MORE ON THE "DOMESTIC POLITICAL NOISE LEVEL" THAN ON INTERNATIONAL CONSIDERATIONS.

McNAMARA SMILED AT THE ADMIRAL AND ADMITTED THAT MOBILIZATION OF THE RESERVES WOULD CAUSE A SERIOUS DOMESTIC DEBATE.

Quickly modifying his exaggerated concern over an escalation of the war, McNamara insisted that such a congressional debate would give the Communists a "wrong impression of U.S. resolve."

THIRTY YEARS LATER McNAMARA ADMITTED THAT THE GREAT SOCIETY HAD DOMINATED THE PRESIDENT'S DESIRE TO CONCEAL THE COST AND SCALE OF AMERICAN INVOLVEMENT IN VIETNAM.

To prevent potential opposition McNamara promised the Chiefs that the country would take more resolute action in the future, and appealed to service interests.

As with other denials of JCS recommendations, McNamara promised that the president would reconsider the decision against mobilization at a later time.

McNAMARA ASKED (Wallace) GREENE (Marine Corps Commandant) WHETHER HE WOULD SUPPORT THE DEPLOYMENT PLAN IF THE SIZE OF MARINE DEPLOYMENTS IN 1966 INCREASED AND THE CEILING ON THE SIZE OF THE MARINE CORPS WAS LIFTED.

GREENE, AS HE HAD IN THE PAST, WENT ALONG WITH THE ADMINISTRATION IN EXCHANGE FOR DECISIONS THAT BENEFITED THE CORPS.

HAROLD JOHNSON (Army Chief) ALSO WENT ALONG WITH THE PRESIDENT'S DECISION, EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW THAT THE FAILURE TO MOBILIZE WAS A PRESCRIPTION FOR DISASTER BOTH FOR HIS SERVICE AND FOR THE WAR.

He also recognized that the decision to obscure the cost of the war was based on the president's desire to keep Vietnam "very, very low key" in favor of GREAT SOCIETY legislation.

- Pages 317,318, Dereliction of Duty - Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, The Joint Chiefs of Staff, AND THE LIES THAT LED TO VIET NAM by H.R. McMaster

VIET NAM veterans, graham, know what it is like to be lied to by sleazy American politicians ...

And to have our lives wasted by sleazy American politicans ....

And we know history as well, graham ...

And so ...

McChrystal has taken an oath to the U.S. Constitution, TROU ...

That is the same Constitution that Obama is supposed to be adhering to as chief executive of OUR federal government ....

And Obama selected McChrystal to turn around Afghanistnam, because Barack Obama sure don't have a clue as to how to do it ....

And now McChrystal is telling us, the American people, what is needed to turn around Afghanistnam ....

Do you see this sentence above here:

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THROUGH THEIR REPRESENTATIVES IN CONGRESS, WERE TO DETERMINE WHETHER SOUTH VIETNAM'S "FREEDOM AND INDEPENDENCE" WAS WORTH THE COSTS AND RISKS.

end quotes

The same applies to Afghanistnam, as well, which makes us the ultimate chain of command for McChrystal ....

So he should be applauded here for reaching out to us as he did ....

And Obama ought to get off his @$$ and figure out just what the heck he is doing over there in the first place ....

It's about time, isn't it?

And so ...