I recently saw a piece on the number of Iraq War veterans returning home with strong symptoms of PTSD. What is being done about this? Are these soldiers being treated adequately?

Tell them to apply at the closest VA hospital. I believe that PTSD is receiving a 10% disability currently and that is enough to get meds and treatment for as long as is needed, but it is imperative that they be diagnosed by a VA Doctor in the Comp and Pen Clinic so they can get proper compensation and treatment. They can apply in Person, Online or by Phone for the necessary Exam.

[FONT=Times][SIZE=14][COLOR=blue][B][I] There are over 5000 Vets waiting at the VAMC (White River) doors in Vermont today. As a 100% Disabled Vietnam Combat Vet, I can truly say good luck to these new Vets suffering from PTSD because of this Bush Fiasco in Iraq. They will encounter a bitter enemy in the VAMC for their disabiliity when they apply for their bennies. I personally been going to the VAMC on a regular basis for PTSD since 1970 (then called personality disorder) and got SC in 1984for PTSD. I see all thes "SUPPORT THE TROOP" fad ribbons on vehicles. Anyone truly believe that these "SHEOPLE" will support any kind of troop when they go for their bennies believes in Santa. They will be on their own and hope the h_ll they carry beaucoup ammo to the VAMC to get what the heck they deserve. This situation is going to be one messed up show, trust me. We "screwed up" Nam Vets went into the woods and hid (did not want to be around the sheople of this country). These G.I.'S are fighting Urban warfare- "AROUND A LOT OF PEOPLE" - and when their PTSD kicks in "Full Throttle" - the Towns and cities of this land better take cover and fast. This is not going to be a pretty site, believe this. The SHRUB and his Hencemen will lock these Vets up faster than an unlocked door at the U.S. Treasury. This is what most people in the U.S. and the morons that sent these G.I.'s call support ! Wait and see if this does not go down as I describe it above. The_Bammo 101st Airborne Division Americal Division RVN D Troop 1/1 Cav "DDAP" "Bammo's Bunker" http://d21c.com/Bammo/BBunker.html "Bammo's Biker Bunker" http://d21c.com/Bammo/BBikerB.html

On one hand, I saw a news report some months ago saying that the military was trying to deal with PTSD while these people are still in the field. On the other hand, I’ve read that the VA is assuming the same posture it maintained from the mid seventies through the mid nineties, deny, deny, deny.

I was on a trip home last Thursday evening and changed planes in Atlanta. On my flight to Boston, there was a Chaplain for the Air Force who was coming to Boston to give a talk. He was from a red state. I asked him about what the military is doing to deal with PTSD and all the trauma that is experienced as a result of the Iraq war. The chaplain knew that I am a psychologist. He told me that they are very aware of this problem, that the troops have access to their chaplains, to counselors and therapists as needed. I mentioned to him that I still have patients from the Vietnam War who are suffering. He said that back then the military was not as aware of the problem as they are now.

In my research I know that the awareness was there, that some of these studies had already been published but the government minimized the seroiusness of the issue. He made it sound as if these affected troops will be okay, yet I felt uneasy and was not convinced by him. His wife or companion was reading Karen Hughes book and seemed thrilled with her.

I concur. I keep thinking about Timothy McVeigh. Gulf War vet. Gotta wonder why they executed him instead of figuring out what went wrong...

I think he was executed for murdering several hundred inocent people.

The only thing I regret about executing Timothy McVeigh was it shut his mouth and kept us from finding out who all helped him commit this heinous act.

I believe patients with PTSD can receive 100% disability for their PTSD symptoms. I have seen many patients at the VA who were on 100% disability. I'm not sure if this was all from PTSD, but I think it was. Here is the national center for PTSD treatment - a VA program. http://www.ncptsd.org/ It is important, IMHO, for these men and women to be seen at the national centers who specialize in PTSD treatment.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/188143_ptsd27.html - http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/t...b_war/index.php Tom---Bammo

MARINE
McVeigh was aced for killing "several hundred people". Did McVeigh ever commit any crime while he served in the military? Heck no, McVeigh served honorably and his Veteran Bennies were stripped from him - Death Bennies. This was not right and every Service Organization in this land should hang their head in shame for not standing up for McVeigh's bennies. Now, true Tim was a small spoke in a big wheel but took his punishment like a man and not like a whimp. Now the good ol' U.S.A., does it kill innocent people Marine? Lets look at the "SHRUB'S" fiasco in Iraq! Civilians killed by military intervention - Min. - 14,578 - Max. - 16,714 - http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ - You think the "SHRUB" and his chickenhawk regime should get the needle for more than a few hundred deaths of innocent people, not counting the wounded and the deaths and wounded of his own Troops serving this country? Do you think the "SHRUB" and his whimpy hencemen would take their punishment like McVeigh did? LOL ---YEAH - I do not think so. And the quote by the "Great General" (LOL) Tommy the Terror Franks (LOL) "We don't do body counts" !! All part ol' Uncle Sammy propaganda at its best Marine and the sheople of this country buy that BS - while they pay with their taxes to assist the "SHRUB" in his killing for the New World Order! Yeah Marine, I know - Kill them all, Let God Sort Them Out ! Look what that did in the Nam Marine - nadda - nothing at all. Semper Fi - Army Airborne Style - Marine, policing up and bagging those stinking corpses is not a very fun chore. You ever have to do that for the sake of Uncle Sammy? Tom---Bammo

If his abberant thinking was PTSD we should have been studying how this happened...the "who" is important, but I think the "why" would be more telling and useful so that it never happens again. I don't think Mcveigh work up one morning and said he'd like to blow up a building in OKC. It happened for a reason. Might have been McVeigh's reason, but we should have found out what exactly that was so it never happened again.

I live with a vet with PTSD. I have no idea what's going on in his head sometimes.
Most of the time he's ok, but sometimes...well, it's not pleasant and its very scary.
Fortunately, he's not very political, but recently he's wondering why he gave up 22 years of his life to the USN. I know this: they either turn the rage inward, or outward if they don't get help.

I respect anyone who serves their country and they deserve better than what we give them. Thank you!

I believe the most widely accepted explaination for the OKC bombing was revenge for the Branch Davidians compound burning down and the Ruby Ridge shootout.

Do I think the US Government infringed upon the rights of the Branch Davidians? Yes, I think the ATF tried a publicity stunt to make them selves look good and they screwed up big time.

Do I think the Federal Government exceeded it's authority by putting shoot on site orders on Randy Weaver and his family? Yes, I think someone at the FBI unlawfully approved the murder of American citizens.

Do I think Timothy McVeigh was justified in taking revenge on the Federal government by murdering a couple of hundred innocent men, women, and little children? HELL NO.

McVeigh's prior military service factored significantly less in his decision to blow up the Federal building than his current involvement with militias and neo-nazis.

I've had PTSD for 9 years. I've largely gone through my rage phase, but came near to taking a guy apart after he ran a red light and almost killed me. (He's OK.)

You can and do need to help yourself. I discovered a really good book, by a lady called Aphrodite Matsakis: I Can't Get Over It. She's been involved in PTSD treatment for Vietnam vets for years, and also treats many other varieties of PTSD at a clinic in Maryland. This book helped me a lot, and cost less than $20.

I don't know her personally, and don't make any money for referring her. If you do a Google search, you'll see she's done a lot of other books as well.

Because PTSD kind of wells up inside you and springs out, you can get the feeling that it's uncontrollable. Being active in fighting it is very important. You can also learn the things you can and can't control. For instance, I now know I'll never stop seeing those pictures in my head, but I can put them in the background and get on with life. Helping people with PTSD find resources is the best thing you can do for them.

Veterans Organization to Release Guide for Redeploying Veterans;
Better Coordination of Benefits Needed, Expert Interviews Available

WASHINGTON -- November 10 -- Availability of readjustment benefits for returning Iraq War veterans is still a problem, said a national veterans' organization today. Veterans for Common Sense, a non-partisan veterans' organization focused on national security, veterans' care, civil liberties and energy policy, released its Resource Guide for Veterans of Operation Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom on Veterans' Day. The guide is intended to provide a comprehensive directory of services and programs available to returning veterans.

In particular, the group focused on the need for better availability of treatment for war-related trauma. According to a recent study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, as many as one in seven returning soldiers from the first rotation of troops to Iraq in 2002-03 (OIF I) suffer from psychiatric conditions, including post-traumatic stress and depression. Further, according to the studies, only one in four symptomatic veterans actually sought treatment for their conditions due to fear of a negative impact on their careers. Matthew J. Friedman, MD, PhD., director of the National Center for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, notes in the same issue of NEJM that this estimate may be conservative, both because of the methodology of the study, as well as the delay sometimes seen before onset of PTSD symptoms after returning from combat.

"Twenty-five years after the recognition of PTSD as a serious consequence of war, a stigma still exists within the military for those who seek medical care for this condition," said Charles Sheehan-Miles, the organization's executive director and a 1991 Gulf War veteran. "Returning Iraq War veterans have reported difficulty seeking care, and in at least two cases have been subjected to court-martial in response to their seeking assistance."

The organization notes that reports of suicides, both among deployed veterans and those recently returned, are on the rise. Sheehan-Miles said, "It's an absolutely tragedy that military service-members who served honorably in combat are coming home and unable to get help."

"The cost of untreated post-traumatic stress disorder is high for the veteran, their families and for society as a whole," Sheehan-Miles said. "Our country needs to do better taking care of the men and women we ask to fight in our wars."

The Resource Guide for Veterans of Operation Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom is available for free download at http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/guide.cfm


Tom----Bammo

Roger that ... I was thinking just the same thing. These guys are going to freak over being in towns and around Middle Eastern people.

And, exactly as you put it, it isn't going to be a pretty site!


BTW Bammo ... WELCOME HOME ... I did my tour as a Rifle Platoon Leader with:

1/61st INFANTRY (Mech), 5th INFANTRY DIVISION
I Corps, (DMZ, Quang Tri, Khe Sanh, Con Thien, Cua Viet etc)
Vietnam 1969-70

VIETNAMVET
Welcome back Bro' - for sure. And your right it is not going to be a pretty sight when those "COMBAT" troops not "REMF'S" are back here in the good ol' U.S. of A. all messed up from the effects of the "SHRUBS" war in their noggins. We as combat troops from the Nam - mainly hid and isolated. Did not want to be around the sheople who put us out like yesterdays garbage Bro'. These Combat Troops are used to Urban warfare - populated areas and are not going to hide or isolate. When that ugly beast rears in those Troops heads from Combat, they are not going to go off in the woods or little town U.S.A. but they will go off in the cities and populated areas of America. Lets see how the "SHEOPLE" support the Troop then Bro' -- should be a site to behold---for sure! This one is from me to you VIETNAMVET - On just how this V-Nam Vet feels on the whole "Bush" propaganda machine and the sheople that buy his #1 BS! http://d21c.com/Bammo/W_W_You.html

I used to give the REMF's hell ... but now any and every REMF has more respect in my eyes than that wanna-be puke that was prancing around on that aircraft carrier in a flight suit quacking "mission accomplished"

BTW, that's the same puke that a few months later said "Bring em on" from the secure safety of the White House.

VIETNAMVET
Bro' know what you mean about givin' the REMF'S beaucoup sheet - for sure. Agree with you that those Vets we called REMF'S should get a heck of a lot of more respect than a CHICKENHAWK who plays like Tom Cruise in Top Gun Bro'. LOL -Yeah Mission accomplished said the SHRUB, think that dude has more than PTSD Bro'. Some Haldol or Thorazine seems about right for that SOB'S condition Bro'. Bring Em' On - LOL - could you see a 7.62 X 39 from an AK or an RPG coming the Fortunate Sons way Bro'. That wanna bee would sure as heck stain his dress pants. LOL All in all Bro', REMF'S had a job to do in the Nam and we judged them wrong. But REMF'S got judged like that in any war this country has been in. Bro', hang tough and keep the faith - thats all we freekin got Bro' ! Wonder when the SHRUB is going to get behind the controls of a big ol' Tank and play Gen. Patten. LOL

Iraq War Veterans Organization PTSD and many links. http://www.iraqwarveterans.org/ptsd.htm

Soldier's Heart Thousands of Iraq war veterans will come home to face serious
2004-12-14
By Dan Frosch
Vietnam provides the clinical and historical framework for PTSD and Iraq. Before Vietnam, treatment of a soldier for the psychological effects of battle was not really treatment at all, even though PTSD had long been acknowledged under a variety of names.

In 1871, former Union Army medic J.M. Da Costa wrote about a stress disorder caused by heavy fighting. He called it "Irritable Heart," a name changed shortly thereafter to "Soldier's Heart."

During World War I, according to VA psychiatrist Jonathan Shay, veterans returning home with Soldier's Heart were told by military doctors they had "shell shock" or "combat neurosis."

After World War II, says Shay, when tens of thousands of soldiers were hospitalized with psychiatric problems, doctors diagnosed the majority with paranoid schizophrenia.

"The diagnostic spirit which prevailed was based on Plato's idea that if you had good parentage, good genes, a good education, then no bad things could shake you from the path of virtue," says Shay.

During Vietnam, that Platonic ideal began to shift. In 1970, 20 young vets from the group Vietnam Veterans Against The War (VVAW) called psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton to speak with them about the war. The vets didn't trust the VA or the military, but knew they needed to calm the devils they'd brought home.

Lifton, who had studied Hiroshima survivors and been an army psychiatrist, began meeting in New York with the group in what became known as "rap sessions."
Prompted by the rap sessions, VVAW opened up dozens of "storefront" counseling centers -- places where Vietnam veterans could speak with other vets about their experiences, a crucial part of treating PTSD.

Still, despite the growing number of vets clearly suffering, the VA wouldn't accept PTSD as a diagnostic entity. "This was because many of them were talking about atrocities, and that process was associated with a political view of the war," says Lifton.

Finally, in 1979, the VA opened up its own network of storefront "vet centers." A year later, the American Psychiatric Association recognized PTSD as a legitimate medical diagnosis. more than 10,000 veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan have sought psychological help from the VA, and there's every indication the numbers will jump significantly.

Despite the challenges these numbers predict, Harold Kudler, co-chair of the VA's PTSD Committee, says, "We've never been so prepared," and points to unprecedented cooperation with the Department of Defense, intensified PTSD outreach and the 206 vet centers.

But some say that preparation is not enough. "You can only provide the services for which you have the resources," says VA psychiatrist Scott Murray. "There has to be significant improvement in an allocation of funds to make that occur."

On Nov. 20, Congress added $1 billion to the Bush's Administration's $27.1 billion VA health-care budget for 2005. The amount fell $1.5 billion short of what was recommended by the House Veterans Affairs Committee. And while Congress earmarked an additional $15 million for PTSD, few think that money will make much difference.

"The heads of the VA health-care networks are all trying to figure out how the hell they're going to manage," says Rick Weidman, director of government relations for Vietnam Veterans of America.

As for the VA's mental-health plan, which estimated an extra $1.65 billion was needed to fix things fully, VA spokesperson Laurie Tranter says, "We cannot comment on this now. The plan is still being finalized."

Still, all the money and services in the world will not necessarily solve the pain of PTSD.

In 1968, a young soldier named Lewis Puller came back from Vietnam without his legs and parts of his hands; they'd been blown off by a Viet Cong land mine. Puller, the son of the most decorated Marine in American history, soon became a veterans' rights advocate and later a Pentagon lawyer. He married a politician, had two children and, in 1991, wrote a Pulitzer Prize-winning book called: "Fortunate Son: The Healing of a Vietnam Vet." Popular on Capitol Hill and among veterans, Puller had seemingly risen above the physical wounds and the depression and alcoholism that haunted him for years to live a remarkable life.

On May 11, 1994, 26 years after returning home, Puller shot himself. In the end, the Soldier's Heart hurt too much.

Amidst an outpouring of grief, one Vietnam vet wrote an e-mail to Jonathan Shay, which Shay published in "Odysseus In America."

"I get real tired of hidin' and runnin' from the demons," the vet wrote. "Am I the only one? Has it crossed anyone else's mind? You think maybe Lew was right? Is it the only real escape? I got questions. I'm out of answers."

Thirty years from now, one wonders how many veterans from this war will echo those words.

http://www.athensnews.com/issue/article.php3?story_id=19179 This is a page worth checking out . Like I said before, PTSD from War does not only effect the Vet. It effects the Vets family, friends, community, state and country.

Doctors brace for swell of returning soldiers
The nation's hard-pressed health care system for veterans is facing a potential deluge of tens of thousands of soldiers returning from Iraq with serious mental health problems brought on by the stress and carnage of war, veterans' advocates and military doctors say.
An Army study shows that about one in six soldiers in Iraq report symptoms of major depression, serious anxiety or post-traumatic stress disorder, a proportion that some experts believe could eventually climb to one in three, the rate ultimately found in Vietnam veterans. Because about 1 million Americans have served so far in the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Pentagon figures, some experts predict that the number eventually requiring mental health treatment could exceed 100,000.

``There's a train coming that's packed with people who are going to need help for the next 35 years,'' says Stephen Robinson, a 20-year Army veteran who is now the executive director of the National Gulf War Resource Center, an advocacy group. Robinson wrote a report in September on the psychological toll of the war for the Center for American Progress, a Washington research group.

``I have a very strong sense that the mental health consequences are going to be the medical story of this war,'' said Dr. Stephen Joseph, who served as assistant secretary of defense for health affairs from 1994 to 1997.

What was planned as a short and decisive intervention in Iraq has become a grueling counterinsurgency that has put American troops into sustained close-quarters combat on a scale not seen since the Vietnam War. Psychiatrists say the kind of fighting seen in the recent retaking of Fallujah - spooky urban settings with unlimited hiding places; the impossibility of telling Iraqi friend from Iraqi foe; the knowledge that every stretch of road may conceal an explosive device - is tailored to produce the adrenaline-gone-haywire reactions that leave lasting emotional scars.

And in no recent conflict have so many soldiers faced such uncertainty about how long they will be deployed. Veterans say the repeated extensions of duty in Iraq are emotionally battering, even for the most stoical of warriors.

Military and Department of Veterans Affairs officials say most military personnel will survive the war without serious mental issues and note that the 1 million personnel include many who have not participated in ground combat, including sailors on ships. By comparison with troops in Vietnam, the officials said, soldiers in Iraq get far more mental health support and are likely to return to a more understanding public.

But the duration and intensity of the war have doctors at veterans hospitals across the country worried about the coming caseload.

``We're seeing an increasing number of guys with classic post-traumatic stress symptoms,'' says Dr. Evan Kanter, a psychiatrist at the Puget Sound veterans hospital in Seattle. ``We're all anxiously waiting for a flood that we expect is coming. And I feel stretched right now.''

A September report by the Government Accountability Office found that officials at six of seven Veterans Affairs medical facilities surveyed said they ``may not be able to meet'' increased demand for treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder. Officers who served in Iraq say the unrelenting tension of the counterinsurgency will produce that demand.

``In the urban terrain, the enemy is everywhere, across the street, in that window, up that alley,'' said Paul Rieckhoff, who served as a platoon leader with the Florida Army National Guard for 10 months, going on hundreds of combat patrols around Baghdad. ``It's a fishbowl. You never feel safe. You never relax.''

In his platoon of 38 people, eight were divorced while in Iraq or since they returned in February, Rieckhoff said. One man in his 120-person company killed himself after coming home.

``Too many guys are drinking,'' said Rieckhoff, who started the group Operation Truth to support the troops. ``A lot have a hard time finding a job. I think the system is vastly underprepared for the flood of mental health problems.''

Capt. Tim Wilson, an Army chaplain serving outside Mosul, said he counseled eight to 10 soldiers a week for combat stress. Wilson said he was impressed with the resilience of his 700-strong battalion but added that fierce battles have produced turbulent emotions.

``There are usually two things they are dealing with,'' said Wilson, a Southern Baptist from South Carolina. ``Either being shot at and not wanting to get shot at again, or after shooting someone, asking, `Did I commit murder?' or `Is God going to forgive me?' or `How am I going to be when I get home?' ''

When all goes as it should, the life-saving medical services may actually swell the ranks of psychological casualties. Of wounded soldiers who are alive when medics reach them, 98 percent now survive, said Dr. Michael Kilpatrick, the Pentagon's deputy director of deployment health support. But they must come to terms with emotional scars and disfiguring injuries.

Through the end of September, the Army had evacuated 885 soldiers from Iraq for psychiatric reasons, including some who had threatened or tried suicide. But those are only the most extreme cases. Often, the symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder do not emerge until months after discharge. http://www.registerguard.com/news/2004/12/...tress.1216.html

Combat Stress Control Units??? Every war produces its medical signature, said Dr. Kenneth Craig Hyams, a former Navy physician now at the Department of Veterans Affairs. Soldiers came back from the Civil War with ``irritable heart.'' In World War I there was ``shell shock.'' World War II vets had ``battle fatigue.'' The troubles of Vietnam veterans led to the codification of post-traumatic stress disorder.

In combat, the fight-or-flight reflex floods the body with adrenaline, permitting impressive feats of speed and endurance. But after spending weeks or months in this altered state, some soldiers cannot adjust to a peaceful setting. Like Brown, for whom a visit to a crowded bank at lunch became an ordeal, they display what doctors call ``hypervigilance.'' They sit in restaurants with their backs to a wall; a car's backfire can transport them back to Baghdad.

To prevent such damage, the Army has deployed ``combat stress control units'' in Iraq to provide treatment quickly to soldiers suffering from emotional overload, keeping them close to the healing camaraderie of their unit.

``We've found through long experience that this is best treated with sleep, rest, food, showers and a clean uniform, if that is possible,'' says Dr. Thomas J. Burke, an Army psychiatrist who oversees mental health policy at the Department of Defense. ``If they get counseling to tell them they are not crazy, they will often get better rapidly.''

To detect signs of trouble, the Department of Defense gives soldiers pre-deployment and post-deployment health questionnaires. Seven of 17 questions to soldiers leaving Iraq seek signs of depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder.

But some reports suggest that such well-intentioned policies falter in the field. During his time as a platoon leader in Iraq, Rieckhoff said, he never saw a combat stress control unit. ``I never heard of them until I came back,'' he said.

And thehealth screens have run up against an old enemy of military medicine: soldiers who cover up their symptoms. In July 2003, as Jeffrey Lucey, a Marine reservist from Belchertown, Mass., prepared to leave Iraq after six months as a truck driver, he at first intended to report traumatic memories of seeing corpses, his parents, Kevin and Joyce Lucey, said. But when a supervisor suggested that such candor might delay his return home, Lucey played down his problems.

At home, he spiraled downhill, haunted by what he had seen and began to have delusions about having killed unarmed Iraqis. In June, at 23, he hanged himself with a hose in the basement of the family home.

``Other Marines have verified to us that it is a subtle understanding which exists that if you want to go home you do not report any problems,'' Lucey's parents wrote in an e-mail message. ``Jeff's perception, which is shared by others, is that to seek help is to admit that you are weak.''

Kilpatrick, of the Pentagon, acknowledges the problem, saying that National Guardsmen and Reservists in particular have shown an ``abysmal'' level of candor in the screenings. ``We still have a long ways to go,'' he said. ``The warrior ethos is that there are no imperfections.''

YO BAMMO-BRO,

ONE OF YOUR POSTS IS MAKING THE ROUNDS OF VIETNAM VETERANS OF AMERICAN HERE IN OHIO MAN.

THIS WAS SENT TO ME BY THE BUCKEYE STATE COUNCIL OF VVA

NOW IF ONLY THEY CAN KNOCK SOME SENSE IN THE HEADS OF THE LAME BRAINS THAT VOTED FOR THE SHRUB WE MIGHT GET THIS HERE "MISTAKE" OVER WITH.

ARMYDAD

From: gabby1369
To: OPVET-PAC, "Doc" <j.p.wilson, KKelly
CC: ThomasCruickshank
Subject: FW: A Flood of Troubled Soldiers Is in the Offing, Experts Predict - NY Times
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:06:48 -0500

-----Original Message-----
From: songbemet
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:05 PM
To: OSACVSO- Bradley David; S. Daniel Cannode; John Erby; J R Fell; Herbert D. Greff; Donald Kuether; Michael E. Mahoney; Robert McCarty; Larry Moore; MarineCorpLeague; Mary Oliver; G Ondick; M P; Bob Park; Jane Roland; William Seagraves; Tom Simon
Cc: Joe 15_Benedict; Jeanne 15_Black; John 15_Bradfield; Sean 15_Ennis; Robert L. 15_Foward; TJ 15_J; Ron 15_Kimmel; Bill 15_Malumphy; James R 15_Sledz; PAT 15_SWEENEY; Phil 15_Toomey; VVA 55; Ron Ball; OSACVSO- Bradley David; F D; T Ellis; G England; John Erby; S F; William C. Fulmer; Clifford Hayes; Larry N Homan; Loren Sidle; James L Spencer; 010 VVA; 015 VVA; 015 VVA; 034 VVA; 035 VVA; 042 VVA; 055 VVA; 089 VVA; 097 VVA; 157 VVA; 249 VVA; 255 VVA; 281 VVA; 385 VVA; 532 VVA; 616 VVA; 649 VVA; 670 VVA; 709 VVA; 783 VVA; 810 VVA; 822 VVA; 857 VVA; 900 VVA; 930 VVA; Ralph Evans VVA 676; Nicholas Wade; Dr. Tom Wiseman
Subject: Fwd: A Flood of Troubled Soldiers Is in the Offing, Experts Predict - NY Times

If you read nothing else today please take a moment to read what is below, then ask yourself do we want this generation of Veterans to be treated better or worse than we the Vietnam Era Veterans have been treated?

Paul Sutton wrote:

From: "Paul Sutton"
To: ssgtusmc6169
Subject: A Flood of Troubled Soldiers Is in the Offing, Experts Predict - NY Times
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:06:53 -0500

Shades of Vietnam. Only difference - these vets won't have to fight for 10
years to get their PTSD recognized by the American Psychaitric Association.

Paul Sutton
"The Land of the Free, Because of the Brave!"

A Flood of Troubled Soldiers Is in the Offing, Experts Predict
By SCOTT SHANE

WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 - The nation's hard-pressed health care system for
Veterans is facing a potential deluge of tens of thousands of Soldiers
returning from Iraq with serious mental health problems brought on by the
stress and carnage of war, Veterans' Advocates and Military Doctors say.

An Army study shows that about one in six Soldiers in Iraq report symptoms
of major depression, serious anxiety or post-traumatic stress disorder, a
proportion that some experts believe could eventually climb to one in three,
the rate ultimately found in Vietnam veterans. Because about one million
American troops have served so far in the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan,
according to Pentagon figures, some experts predict that the number
eventually requiring mental health treatment could exceed 100,000.

"There's a train coming that's packed with people who are going to need help
for the next 35 years," said Stephen L. Robinson, a 20-year Army Veteran who
is now the executive director of the National Gulf War Resource Center, an
advocacy group. Mr. Robinson wrote a report in September on the psychological toll of the war for the Center for American Progress, a Washington research group.

"I have a very strong sense that the mental health consequences are going to
be the medical story of this war," said Dr. Stephen C. Joseph, who served as
the assistant secretary of defense for health affairs from 1994 to 1997.

What was planned as a short and decisive intervention in Iraq has become a
grueling counterinsurgency that has put American troops into sustained
close-quarters combat on a scale not seen since the Vietnam War.
Psychiatrists say the kind of fighting seen in the recent retaking of
Falluja - spooky urban settings with unlimited hiding places; the
impossibility of telling Iraqi friend from Iraqi foe; the knowledge that
every stretch of road may conceal an explosive device - is tailored to
produce the adrenaline-gone-haywire reactions that leave lasting emotional
scars.

And in no recent conflict have so many Soldiers faced such uncertainty about
how long they will be deployed. Veterans say the repeated extensions of duty
in Iraq are emotionally battering, even for the most stoical of warriors.

Military and Department of Veterans Affairs officials say most military
personnel will survive the war without serious mental issues and note that
the one million troops include many who have not participated in ground
combat, including Sailors on ships. By comparison with Troops in Vietnam,
the officials said, Soldiers in Iraq get far more mental health support and
are likely to return to a more understanding public.

But the duration and intensity of the war have doctors at veterans hospitals
across the country worried about the coming caseload.

"We're seeing an increasing number of guys with classic post-traumatic
stress symptoms," said Dr. Evan Kanter, a psychiatrist at the Puget Sound
Veterans hospital in Seattle. "We're all anxiously waiting for a flood that
we expect is coming. And I feel stretched right now."

A September report by the Government Accountability Office found that
officials at six of seven Veterans Affairs medical facilities surveyed said
they "may not be able to meet" increased demand for treatment of
post-traumatic stress disorder. Officers who served in Iraq say the
unrelenting tension of the counterinsurgency will produce that demand.

"In the urban terrain, the enemy is everywhere, across the street, in that
window, up that alley," said Paul Rieckhoff, who served as a platoon leader
with the Florida Army National Guard for 10 months, going on hundreds of
combat patrols around Baghdad. "It's a fishbowl. You never feel safe. You
never relax."

In his platoon of 38 people, 8 were divorced while in Iraq or since they
returned in February, Mr. Rieckhoff said. One man in his 120-person company
killed himself after coming home.

"Too many guys are drinking," said Mr. Rieckhoff, who started the group
Operation Truth to support the troops. "A lot have a hard time finding a
job. I think the system is vastly under-prepared for the flood of mental
health problems."

Capt. Tim Wilson, an Army chaplain serving outside Mosul, said he counseled
8 to 10 soldiers a week for combat stress. Captain Wilson said he was
impressed with the resilience of his 700-strong battalion but added that
fierce battles have produced turbulent emotions.

"There are usually two things they are dealing with," said Captain Wilson, a
Southern Baptist from South Carolina. "Either being shot at and not wanting
to get shot at again, or after shooting someone, asking, 'Did I commit
murder?' or 'Is God going to forgive me?' or 'How am I going to be when I
get home?' "

When all goes as it should, the life-saving medical services available to
combat units like Captain Wilson's may actually swell the ranks of
psychological casualties. Of wounded soldiers who are alive when medics
arrive, 98 percent now survive, said Dr. Michael E. Kilpatrick, the
Pentagon's deputy director of deployment health support. But they must come
to terms not only with emotional scars but the literal scars of amputated
limbs and disfiguring injuries.

Through the end of September, the Army had evacuated 885 troops from Iraq
for psychiatric reasons, including some who had threatened or tried suicide.
But those are only the most extreme cases. Often, the symptoms of
post-traumatic stress disorder do not emerge until months after discharge.

"During the war, they don't have the leisure to focus on how they're
feeling," said Sonja Batten, a psychologist at the Baltimore Veterans
hospital. "It's when they get back and find that their relationships are
suffering and they can't hold down a job that they realize they have a
problem."

Robert E. Brown was proud to be in the first wave of Marines invading Iraq
last year. But Mr. Brown has also found himself in the first ranks of
returning Soldiers to be unhinged by what they experienced.

He served for six months as a Marine chaplain's assistant, counseling
wounded soldiers, organizing makeshift memorial services and filling in on
raids. He knew he was in trouble by the time he was on a ship home, when the
sound of a hatch slamming would send him diving to the floor.

After he came home, he began drinking heavily and saw his marriage fall
apart, Mr. Brown said. He was discharged and returned to his hometown, Peru,
Ind., where he slept for two weeks in his Ford Explorer, surrounded by
mementos of the war.

"I just couldn't stand to be with anybody," said Mr. Brown, 35, sitting at his father's kitchen table.

Dr. Batten started him on the road to recovery by giving his torment a name,
an explanation and a treatment plan. But 18 months after leaving Iraq, he
takes medication for depression and anxiety and returns in dreams to the
horrors of his war nearly every night.

The scenes repeat in ghastly alternation, he says: the Iraqi girl, 3 or 4
years old, her skull torn open by a stray round; the Kuwaiti man imprisoned
for 13 years by Saddam Hussein, cowering in madness and covered in waste;
the young American soldier, desperate to escape the fighting, who sat in the
latrine and fired his M-16 through his arm; the Iraqi missile speeding in as
troops scramble in the dark for cover.

"That's the one that just stops my heart," said Mr. Brown. "I'm in my rack
sleeping and there's a school bus full of explosives coming down at me and
there's nowhere to go."

Such costs of war, personal and financial, are not revealed by official
casualty counts. "People see the figure of 1,200 dead," said Dr. Kanter, of
Seattle, referring to the number of Americans killed in Iraq. "Much more
rarely do they see the number of seriously wounded. And almost never do they
hear anything at all about the psychiatric casualties."

As of Wednesday 5,229 Americans have been seriously wounded in Iraq. Through
July, nearly 31,000 Veterans of Operation Iraqi Freedom had applied for
disability benefits for injuries or psychological ailments, according to the
Department Veterans Affairs.

Every war produces its medical signature, said Dr. Kenneth Craig Hyams, a
former Navy physician now at the Department of Veterans Affairs. Soldiers
came back from the Civil War with "irritable heart." In World War I there
was "shell shock." World War II Vets had "battle fatigue." The troubles of
Vietnam veterans led to the codification of post-traumatic stress disorder.

In combat, the fight-or-flight reflex floods the body with adrenaline,
permitting impressive feats of speed and endurance. But after spending weeks
or months in this altered state, some soldiers cannot adjust to a peaceful
setting. Like Mr. Brown, for whom a visit to a crowded bank at lunch became
an ordeal, they display what doctors call "hypervigilance." They sit in
restaurants with their backs to a wall; a car's backfire can transport them
back to Baghdad.

To prevent such damage, the Army has deployed "combat stress control units"
in Iraq to provide treatment quickly to soldiers suffering from emotional
overload, keeping them close to the healing camaraderie of their unit.

"We've found through long experience that this is best treated with sleep,
rest, food, showers and a clean uniform, if that is possible," said Dr.
Thomas J. Burke, an Army psychiatrist who oversees mental health policy at
the Department of Defense. "If they get counseling to tell them they are not
crazy, they will often get better rapidly."

To detect signs of trouble, the Department of Defense gives soldiers
pre-deployment and post-deployment health questionnaires. Seven of 17
questions to Soldiers leaving Iraq seek signs of depression, anxiety and
post-traumatic stress disorder.

But some reports suggest that such well-intentioned policies falter in the
field. During his time as a platoon leader in Iraq, Mr. Rieckhoff said, he
never saw a combat stress control unit. "I never heard of them until I came
back," he said.

And the health screens have run up against an old enemy of military
medicine: soldiers who cover up their symptoms. In July 2003, as Jeffrey
Lucey, a Marine reservist from Belchertown, Mass., prepared to leave Iraq
after six months as a truck driver, he at first intended to report traumatic
memories of seeing corpses, his parents, Kevin and Joyce Lucey, said. But
when a supervisor suggested that such candor might delay his return home,
Mr. Lucey played down his problems.

At home, he spiraled downhill, haunted by what he had seen and began to have
delusions about having killed unarmed Iraqis. In June, at 23, he hanged
himself with a hose in the basement of the family home.

"Other marines have verified to us that it is a subtle understanding which
exists that if you want to go home you do not report any problems," Mr.
Lucey's parents wrote in an e-mail message. "Jeff's perception, which is
shared by others, is that to seek help is to admit that you are weak."

REMEMBER THAT WITH THE PENTAGON HAVING RECRUITMENT PROBLEMS, ESPECIALLY IN THE NATIONAL GUARD AND RESERVES, AND THE MARINES DO HAVE A RESERVE FORCE, JUST LIKE VIETNAM = THE MEDICAL OBJECTIVE IS TO RETURN THE MARINE OR SOLDIER TO "COMBAT" = PERIOD! THAT PLUS "COST" OF PAYING BENEFITS WAS THE DRIVING FORCE OF THE NIXON ADMINISTRATION AND REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS DURING VIETNAM OPPOSING RECOGNITION OF PTSD. IT COULD GIVE TROOPS THE EXCUSE THEY NEEDED TO GET OUT OF COMBAT DUTY ONCE THEY HAD MORE THAN THEY COULD PSYCHOLOGICALLY TAKE. ARMYDAD. YEP = IT IS SURELY TIME FOR "THE DRAFT" TO INCLUDE DRAFTING YOUNG REPUBLICANS FROM OUR COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES.

Dr. Kilpatrick, of the Pentagon, acknowledges the problem, saying that
National Guardsmen and Reservists in particular have shown an "abysmal"
level of candor in the screenings. "We still have a long ways to go," he
said. "The warrior ethos is that there are no imperfections."

Richard A. Oppel Jr. contributed reporting from Baghdad for this article.
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

Respectfully,

Joseph A. Jennings III
Exec. Dir.
VVA "BUCKEYE" State Council

"For those that have fought for it, ' FREEDOM ' has a flavor the protected will never know"

ARMYDAD Agree with you top shelf Bro' - for sure! Time to get some of those "CHICKENHAWK" and Fortunate sons and daugters in this here "SHRUB WAR" and lets see them talk their tough azz jive then Bro'! It will be a big time different story then, won't it ARMYDAD. LOL Send those CHICKENHAWK and fortunate sons kiddies right on up to the front lines to be the cannon fodder of the "SHRUB" ! I bet then, this country of sheople would wake the he_l up and smell the stence that is present Bro' !

I'd call them victims, not war criminals.

YES! The Army was well aware of the psycholgical effects of sustained combat on our VN Vets, but did not provide the "decompression" that WW2 Vets had when they returned home. Many of them served out 4 to 6 months in Europe or Pacific Theaters after combat operations ceased, and then returned home on slow moving troop ships.

When we returned, many of us had just spent two days at MACV Hq in Saigon, or Long Binh, with a 14 hour plane flight home. Some of those guys were in firefights just hours before standing down. NO DECOMPRESSION--just right onto our home streets, and totally F****D UP!

When I returned home on July 2d, 1968, my best buddy set me up with one fine lady (whose dad was a Navy Cmdr). On our first date, I was soooo hypervigilant! On our second date, which happened to be Independence Day, I was driving around waiting for the magic hour for our date when firecracker flashes and pops sent me diving for cover across the street from my car. When I realized where I was, and all of the people who stopped to watch me disintegrate came over to check on me, I forgot about the date and went back to my parent's house. Not only had I forgotten about that date, but the big beach party we had planned for the following weekend. She accused me of standing her up, and refused to go to the beach party with me. I could never understand why she said that. (I didn't attend the beach party. Rather, I stayed home the next 30 days before driving to my next duty assignment. Four months later, I was back in VN--and in my mind the safety of a known reality.) Fifteen years later, while attending vet counselling, that Independence Day evening came back to me like a load of scat.

Read my other posts in this forum regarding my 36 year run with PTSD!

MRFranks You tell it like it free-ken is Bro' and you know and I know that most of the people in this forum or this land that we once called home could give a rats azz about the problem that faces the Combat Troop. Even have so-called Veterans in this forum that would rather sit on their azz at the da_n VFW Bar Stools and tell wanna bee stories than face the fact of PTSD smacking the Combat Vet upside the head, now and in the past. Nothing changes Bro', nothing at freeken all.

I know there are some people in this forum that truly want to hear about the effects of PTSD to the Combat Troop. So tell it loud and clear Bro', there are some that could give a rats azz about the "SHRUB", Yellow Ribbon Fad, or a wanna bee story by some REMF Vet sitting on some free-ken bar stool at some Red, White and Bush Veteran Club. These are the Desk Warriors that glorify war Bro' and have no clue what the fudge they are talking about. What would you expect from some behind kissin' lifer REMF Bro'! I met some real good Soldiers that were career Soldiers Bro' - there is a difference to me between this honorable Soldier and a Lifer. Hang Tough and know you have some here listening to you Bro'. So post what you have to say and it will be read by some Bro' --for sure! Be well and stay strong. And you got a da_n right to be "ANGRY", and never let anyone tell you otherwise. Keep the Faith!

Again, right on BAMMO,
I have to listen to BAMMO, he might be the only one here who really understands what I’m about to say.
I’m having trouble responding to these posts, the VA changed my meds, all I can do lately is sh-t red white and blue.

vfguenley
Yup, Bro' - been that pill of the month routine many times at the VAMC. And know where your coming from exactly. And also know there are a lot more Vets in this here forum that know where your head may be from VA meds. Feel free to IM me Bro' --got some things to tell you on the VA Pill of the Month Club---Okay! Advice from my experience's with the VAMC since 1970 vfguenley. Might be worth listening to --might not--you be the honcho on that! LOL Hang Tough Bro' !

Right on BAMMO! "IT DON'T MEAN NOTHIN'; NOT A F***IN' THING!"