Recounts are not enough - they will probably come out the same! Ya need to prove FRAUD. Comparing exit polls won't cut it either (no offense) - there have been too many reports 'justifiably' debunking them already. Maybe as a lead, but NOT as evidence! Need concrete proof that can not be 'explained away'.

the extra 3000+ votes in that ohio precinct in franklin county ohio aught to be a good start...

i'm sure there were more where there were additional "votes" for bush than number of actual voters...

I hate to shoot ideas down - we're just brainstorming here, but I'm afraid if we brainstorm too much, we'll lose precious time...

be sure to keep up on the info. I'm updating the Americans For America website now...

do you know which professors/professionals who did the study? They might be our best bet. over 65% (don't quote me on that) of profs surveyed said they were going to vote for Kerry... we might be able to trust more of them...

I like it - I like it... so maybe we can trust nader? This makes a bit of sense...

I think we need the help of anyone we can get......this affects the future of Democracy......

thnx for the link......I'll put it to good use

This is great - let's raise the roof! Email campaign...

We'll just have to keep it simple so we don't sound off our rocker... like a conspiracy... ya know... we want to be credible... not nut cases.

WE ARE GOING TO WIN THIS!!!! :D

2 days ago we were worried about why the media isn't talking -THEY ARE NOW!
Randi Rhodes is screaming her head off, and getting many many people involved..
I love that woman!! Wondering when it will hit cnn (on tv); fox;msnbc???? Someone will have to post when it does because the only thing I watch now is cspan and pbs...

Excuse me for breaking in here, but I thought blackboxvoting was running the research on looking at the votes from each precinct in Ohio and FL. I can't find anything much on their site about the status. Do I need to join that site in order to find out what they are doing? Seems like earlier Harris said in a post on johnkerry.com that things would be coming out slowly in small chunks over the next two weeks in the media so they couldn't figure out what was happening until it was too late. However I don't always trust what I see in boards, so I don't know if she and her "crew" is going to handle it. Are you helping her? Do you know their status?

Secondly, I watch cspan alot and people are trying to bring up the voting fraud in questions or by calling in. Listen to the panel members who seem the most knowledgeable because they may be a person who could help you.

Here is a man who spoke today and seemed very concerned about all of the issues we support and VERY against the direction Bush is headed. I think he would point you in the right direction. Robert Borosage who is with Campaign for America's Future. They have a website, a staff, and a long list of advisors. I think I would give just a little info until you find who is going to work on this because you don't want to give away the store and end up empty handed. I'm sure there is a rebuttal that can be fabricated for any proof we find. Anyway, from listening to him, and his passion, I would trust him enough to explain what you are doing.
This is the site with the advisors listed on this page.....
http://www.ourfuture.org/aboutus/founders.cfm
You can check out the other pages and find some kind of email and ask to email him directly about something important concerning voting irregularity.

I think MSNBC may be very interested soon too....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5937022

http://www.vote.caltech.edu/Links/AlexandriaReport.pdf

Proof Diebold pushed their illegal GEMS counter past the election boards, after the election boards voted to outlaw it and take it down!

is there some current proof - can old evidence be used against them? I don't know the legality side of all this... just what I hear on tv drama... lol

not a joking matter - but i'm so pissed off, I have to laugh.

what we have for current proof is the ohio difference that surfaced on yahoo news today

and speculations on voting habits of democrats - for high percent democrat communities going to bush - see above

any other proof? not just speculation? what do we have to go on?

Isn't the Justice Department going to vigorously investigate this by interviewing every one of the registered voters in that county?

Isn't Florida going to order its police to JUMP ON THIS STORY? Just like the pre-election investigation of election fraud by people of color?

Oh, that's right, that would require EQUAL TREATMENT UNDER THE LAW!

Please excuse me for being so naive.

in one of the articles i read - there were two bills in the senate or house waiting to ban evoting and such - anyone know those bills? there is likely evidence to discredit diebold and such in the bills... right?

Anyone know the HR numbers for the bills that are tied up?

and isn't it a conflict of interest to have the exec dir of Diebold at the Crawford ranch with the Bush/Cheney people? and for this "Diebold CEO Walton O'Dell raised over $600,000 at just one fund-raising party."

and not to mention someone high up in diebold promising Ohio to Bush

It is "in your face!"

No proof = never happened!

Everyone overlooks the ramifications that this alleged election theft has had on races from the top to the bottom of government in this nation!

The cheats employed during this election process could easilly have achieved the exact opposite of the majority of voters intent and will to have Democratic leadership from local government all the way up to the White House.

has anyone looked into Sandhill County Georgia? Apparantly there was major fraud there as well. I 'll run a search see what I can find.

Certainly not overlooked... this was the first time in ages that the senate minority leader lost an election ("Daschle fell to former Rep. John Thune, the first Senate party leader to lose a race for re-election in more than a half century.")
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor.../eln_senate_rdp

"ROVEBOLD" also helped the Senate seats also. Don't forget that

I see in my mind Rove doing this on election night. Making a call to the chosen hacker(s) etc. This hack job is so simple my 7 yr. old could do it. I see Rove with his feet up just laughing like crazy.

This would be the civil war of politics if someone on the inside squeaks about it.

-Sss4Kerry

Agreed, lets flood the New York Times with all this fraud evidence.

do i sense sarcasm?

No- It should be done since hes still working there.

http://www.pimademocrats.org/votingreport/az_voting.htm
http://www.alternet.org/election04nm/19226/

They'll be very interested.

you work fast activisms... i can't keep up

It would be nice to have email adresses and a somewhat formal "Voter Fraud" letter. Including links etc. that anyone could send. We could flood anyone quickly.

Remember when we lit up Sinclair.

I pick activisms for DEMOLAND Security to make one up :D

-Sss4Kerry

Here is the madeup letter:





Can be reproduced by anyone. :D

posting a link to the sample letter on the website

About to send letter off to media.....sending....NOW. :o

Looks good to me :D

-Sss4Kerry

Link to the letter - for ease of copy and pasting...

http://pages.ivillage.com/americans4america/id10.html

if you all could take a look at this thread, i'd appreciate it. tryig to get a consolidated set of convincing evidence in front of some people that can make things happen. please read the post and, if would, summarize and post evidence in the other thread linked in this post.

TIA!

http://commongroundcommonsense.ipbhost.com...owtopic=354&hl=

We've been doing exactly that - i'll take a look and see what I can add to the website: visit the link to my signature... that's the site.

Be careful about bashing op-scan votes. Don't let the media make them the scapegoat and give systems lacking a paper trail the upper hand.

Votegate 2004 is set up as a win-win for the current victor.

First, he "wins" the election.

Second, overzealous protesters compare exit polls and blame overvotes on the winner's favorite voting method: touch screen voting.

Third, cooler heads begin to report that touch screen actually looks pretty clean, and evidence suggests no major tampering. Critics lose a little credibility, have harder time proving fraud or getting listened to.

Fourth, shocking evidence of fraud emerges from voting methods with a paper trail: optically scanned ballots in Florida and Ohio and Nevada's receipt-generating system. Because these are the voting systems previously endorsed by critics, critics lose more credibility, and job of persuading public gets tougher.

Fifth, nobody can prove Bush or Karl Rove did it, and Bush pushes for election reform because of abuses "on both sides."

Sixth, Congress passes more election reforms, banning vote machines with paper ballots and receipts after news reports question the integrity of the vote they produced, but no one is ever prosecuted or conclusively fingered as the perpetrator.

Seventh, we're stuck with the worst-possible voting system: touch screen.

Eighth, democracy belongs to the people not to criminals, so with karl rove's dirty paws shown to be all over this:

http://www.eff.org/e-vote/20040421_e-vote_...n_testimony.pdf
http://www.equalccw.com/dieboldtestnotes.html


Guess who goes down with no more strikes.

so you're suggesting? there is enough evidence and reports of hacking and tampering with touch screen voting machines that if we raise enough of a stink, they won't be around for the next elections. Let's just go back to paper...


But - we do need to stay focused - let's get the evidence and keep adding it up. The more we get - the better. It would be helpful to compare more counties where the number of votes exceeded the number of registered voters.

Precisely, we get all the county numbers raising all these discrepancies, right from the official county's online sites and then we have every single means compiled to prosecute. :o

ya know where this info is? i've seen a few links for ohio - but we need total registered voters and actual votes cast

we can also look at the senate votes - if the presidential votes exceeded the senate votes by a large margin (thousands) then, bingo - why would many people vote for president but not for senators. doesn't make sense. Decent place to look at those is where "liberal" democrats won senate seats (the few that there were) because why would they vote for a "liberal" democrat senator and still want Bush in office? speculation... but we need some numbers... all these articles are great, but numbers are more solid.

Its on the ohio.gov sites and other.


All you do is go to google.com or some search engine, and search for "County Elections Official Registration Boards and Tally Counts" and you'll start finding all of them.

We've seen some congressional people stand up and speak about what appears to be substantial evidence of voter fraud....how about our Senate, any Senators coming to the forefront???

I noticed a couple of interesting things in the TV news today. As I was flipping through the news channels this morning, Bitchitte Quinn at Fox News was talking about exit polls. There was no explanation regarding why the exit poll numbers were so different from the actual results. They didn't bring any new information to light. I'm just surprised to see Fox News talking about exit polls.

Soon after that they talked about students camping out in Boulder, CO in protest of where this nation is headed. There's an article about that too at: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137740,00.html

Tonight, Susan Sarandon appeared in Bill Maher show. She mentioned about voter fraud, and blackbox voting. A public figure like Susan Sarandon is needed to bring more awareness to this issue. I think they are running reruns of Bill Maher on HBO later this weekend, if you want to catch the show.

In general, have your Tivos and VCRs ready to record if you see any coverage of exit polls and evoting without paper trails. And if you catch something interesting, please post transcripts here.

I forgot to mention that I also found another interesting article when I was searching the Fox News site. Here's the highlights (the article was posted at Fox News on Thursday):

Statisticians at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and California Institute of Technology are asking county election officials throughout the nation for raw election data and hope to perform "forensic tests" that could take at least a month. The fledgling U.S. Election Assistance Commission is also compiling data and plans to issue a report later this month.
Research will include comparisons of the number of voters and the number of ballots cast in random precincts, an attempt to determine whether votes were mysteriously lost.
According to an MIT/CalTech study, 8.2 percent of touch-screen votes in senatorial elections between 1998 and 2000 were lost — more than any other system except lever machines, which lost 9.5 percent of votes.
…

"We've resolved in our heads to provide scrutiny only when the election is close, and that's a bad way of approaching it," said Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, chairwoman of the Miami-Dade Election Reform Coalition. "We need to apply scrutiny every time so we know we have a healthy process." More than half of Florida voters cast electronic ballots.

The full article is at: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137563,00.html

Official results for one Georgia county:
http://www.co.clayton.ga.us/election/2004_...resultsew-1.htm

Full Page

http://www.co.clayton.ga.us/election/2004_...y_precincts.htm

All of these counties have been using Diebold's software......Ka ma dieum...

Something else I'm wondering is did the military votes get counted as well?

The states that don't have Diebold's G.E.M.S are ones that rejected it like california, colorado, and so on.

More examples of who to email evidence to


panaorama@bbc.co.uk


I'm emailing evidence using the letters including election numbers off the state pages..

In those Optiscan counties Bush received just over 600,000 votes more than other data suggest he should have. This by itself is far more than his margin of victory in Florida.