The economic monopolies and the modern feudalism in Kurdistan
28 May 2005
KurdishMedia.com - By Dr Shafiq Shemzin

The article of Kyle Madigan, titled ’Corruption instead of development in Iraqi Kurdistan’ shows only the tip of the iceberg. The two Kurdish parties are taking advantage of the Kurdish people and independent enterprises in these critical days. The public is being silenced by using arguments that it could lead to a weakened position in Iraq. In the critical next months of writing constitution, the Kurdish parties are still only worrying about filling their pockets.

It is just a shame and disgrace for a government official to talk about democracy in Kurdistan. It is a shame for us Kurds to talk about our democratic experience which is not that much different from any other Middle Eastern country. People cannot influence the decision making in Kurdistan. Or maybe the definition of democracy by the Kurdish leadership is different. Yes, people have now more freedom of moving and making their own choices, which was a dream in Saddam’s era. But still the most important aspects of democracy are being suppressed. There is widespread corruption in governmental bodies and institutions. A free market enterprising is non-existent. You see all these Kurdish officials shouting these democratic slogans but without any practical knowledge and realisation on the field. In reality, it is only democracy on paper.

The government is working on a feudal base with modern aghas (so called officials). Every corner has its own agha and sheikh. Every free enterprising needs the permission of the local sheikh (agha). These aghas are asking every new business a share for giving you his permission and recommendation. This context has discouraged many Diaspora Kurds who were enthusiastically planning of putting Kurdistan ahead. Let alone the bureaucracy and the lethal routine in the government. There is a kind of allergic attitude being taken towards Diaspora Kurds. Governmental employees just hate to see Diaspora Kurds because of their critical attitude. A normal citizen is already surrendered to the will of these corrupted employees. A simple factory to produce Paracetamol was rejected because the person was not one of the KDP members. Well, actually if you are not from the ruling clan, you are a low ranking KDP anyway.

Lands are being divided by the two party officials without any norms or regulations. In Sulaimani, all the vital areas are been divided between PUK officials and some areas were even seized from their owners. The case is the same in KDP area, where Salahadin and Sararash resorts are being taken and occupied by KDP officials.

In Sulaimani, lands with high economic value are being confiscated (with a minimum compensation) from the original owners for the benefit of some PUK officials. It is almost forbidden to talk about starting a large business or submit for a tender. The tenders are being divided by party members and then resold to third parties. Many sectors are monopolized by few people.

Like in the KDP area, it is obvious that the highest officials in KRG (KDP) are monopolizing every large business ranging from cigarettes, IT, Internet, to real estate. Other family members of the ruling clan are monopolising the mobile GSM and wireless telecommunication systems in Arbil and Dohuk. In the PUK area, party officials do businesses through other businessmen and companies like Asia Cell is the most known one, who is working for the PUK leaders directly.

Any new enterprise that intends to establish new business is requested by the Asaish (Security and Intelligent Institution) to get party recommendation before getting permission. Starting a business without backing or sharing the revenue with one of the officials is almost impossible in Kurdistan. This has discouraged many Kurdish enterprises to invest and forced them to find other opportunities and try their luck in the south. Such a policy will destroy every enterprising spirit and put the economy in Kurdistan to one of lowest levels in the region. Ironically, many of the slogans and activities observed by both administrations is to encourage foreign companies to invest their capital in Kurdistan.

This can be seen as the inheritance of the Baath system which is being used in Kurdistan. You see in festivals or soccer matches, the party sheikhs and aghas are in the front row sitting on comfortable sofas and the rest of the public on shabby chairs. This scene is exactly the same as the rule of Baath. Besides the personality worship, which is another heritage from the Arab Baathist regime. Every corner of a government building is being filled with smiley leaders of the KDP or PUK.

I hope that more Kurds will dare to write and present facts, without fearing to be harassed in Kurdistan. And this might change a tiny little thing in the mentality of the two main parties. Our patience is reaching its limit. The KDP and PUK should really start thinking of change. The current state of affairs, the unsolved issue of the double administrations and the parliament will lead to a public uprising and that will only damage the parties and Kurdistan’s image.

Kurds have an excellent opportunity now. We should fully utilize it, before it is again too late. Baghdad is already surpassing Kurdistan in many areas; if we do not catch up, we will lose our will again to Baghdad. If Baghdad tomorrow shows any sign of security, most if not all investors will lead towards Baghdad and then that will signal the end of the economic prosperity in Kurdistan.

Feudalism has always been an obstacle for development. From ancient times until now, the Kurds are under the mercy of feudal leaders who always have resisted change, in fear of weakening their power base, by using either religion or other means to paralyse the people.

http://www.kurdmedia.com/reports.asp?id=2637

The Kurds fate in Northern Iraq lays in the hands of the almighty oil flow that is expected to make it's way towards Israel. Unfortunately, as those Kurds holds onto their 'next to forever' breath waiting on those BushCon's rewards from American taxpayer's monies to help them to secure their futures with, I'm afraid the esculating war fronts in the Middle East and Central Asia will exasperate those Kurdish pipedreams just as well as American's futures that will also go down the Bushenomics toilet. Welcome to reality Kurds.... you've been Bush duped as well. :no:

Yep...this is a good sign. Freedom of the press. It's embarrassing many of the "leaders" into doing things they would not do before. Funny, but it reminds me of a piece of writing crtical of the US from a marxist perspective. The Kurdish parliament finally went back in session. The investment is still going into Kurdish areas, and prosperity is certainly being shared by all...but there is a lot of work to do.

Ghost....hate to tell you this dude, but oil is fungible, and it will not go to Israel, it's going to go to the port of Basrah and to Turkey and maybe they will open the pipeline that goes through Syria. Israel has not experienced a surge in its oil needs, we have, india has, china has...but you really need to look at a map! You really need to understand the oil business, because what you're saying is unsubstantiated malice, that is so bizarre in a prima facie way, that it makes you look like you don't even know where these two places are, much less underrstand how oil is moved and why.

Some would think that these maps here says it all heart. It's certainly worth the idea that this is actually in the making. Yes, Syria is the key, you nailed that thot.



http://www.nogw.com/warforisrael.html

Israel is in the midst of its plan to use the United States military, which it controls, to conquer Iraq and divert Iraqi oil to the Haifa refinery via the Mosul to Haifa pipeline. The U.S. has built airbases at H2 and H3 (which stand for Haifa 2 and Haifa 3) to protect this strategic pipeline. The pipeline is intact, fully operational, and is being used to covertly send oil to Israel. Paid for with the blood of American soldiers that die in Iraq.

Iraq is being turned into another Palestine state for Israel.

This war was fought in order to secure Israel's future. Israel, being a parasite nation, needed to create an income stream that would continue if funding from the United States should dry up. They have been working on the plan to steal Iraqi oil for years. Read Israel's Blitzkrieg on Middle East Oil by Joe Vialls for more on this.

To quote Mr. Vialls article, "... they are already planning to steal 1,825 million barrels of Iraqi oil per annum. Taking a nominal price of US $25.00 per barrel ... the Israeli-Jewish terrorists stand to make a cool US $45,625,000,000.00 each year .... " [Thats over 45 1/2 Billion dollars a year or $125 million each day!!!]

Mr. Vialls claims that the 45 billion a year jackpot is more than just a lot of money, it's a matter of survival for Israel.

The reshaping of the Middle East by America's military will allow Israel to:
(1) Control the strategic oil reserves in this region which will ensure low cost oil to Israel and ensure their economic survival.
(2) Ensure Israel is the dominant military force and the sole nuclear equipped military power in the region for many years to come .
(3) Neutralize Israel's enemies in the region.
(4) Expand borders per "Greater Israel". The Nile forming the border on the West through Egypt, and the Euphrates on the East through Turkey, Syria and Iraq.
(5) Allow even further expansion of borders to encompass surrounding countries.

Israel has become the 3rd largest exporter of weapons in the world, selling everything from Uzis to PHALCON airborne early warning systems. Defense Ministry figures show Israeli weapons export contracts were worth $4.1 billion in 2002. Only the United States with $13.2 billion and Russia with $4.4 billion sold more weapons that year.

Israel's possesses the fourth largest army in the world.

Israel is the only nuclear enabled country in the Middle East. Israel has overtaken England to become the worlds 5th largest nuclear power, roughly equivalent to France and China in the size and sophistication of its nuclear arsenal. Recent reports indicate that Israel has deployed five different nuclear weapons designs. It is estimated to have 2000-5000 conventional nuclear warheads and many micro nuclear devices like the bomb that destroyed the Sari Club in Bali. (These new nuclear devices only emit alpha radiation that is invisible to a standard geiger counter). In addition they have the neutron bombs, (that can kill people and leave the buildings intact) and hydrogen bombs. Hydrogen bombs are currently the most fearsome and intimidating weapon on earth, capable of causing over 60000 times the damage of a nuclear bomb like the one used on Nagasaki. The Hydrogen bomb is so intimidating that most nations vow never to produce it, though it is really not much harder than producing regular nukes. When we are talking WMD, this is the big Kahuna.

Israel has the capability to take out every major city in Europe. Israel refuses to sign the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT), the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention (BTWC) or to allow inspections of its nuclear facilities by International inspectors.

Israel stands in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council Resolutions. A further 33 resolutions against Israel has not seen the light of day thanks to the United States vetoing power on the Security Council.

Nuclear disarmament must begin with Israel. Until that time, Arab states in the region have an inalienable "right" and "obligation" to develop similar weapons (of mass destruction) to counter this overwhelming threat to their nations and peoples.

Since Israel possess such a large nuclear arsenal, they are able to blackmail the United States into supplying them conventional weapons. They have been known to sell those weapons and technologies to other countries, once they are given to them. The Patriot missile, the Phoenix air-to-air missile, the Lavi fighter, based on the F-16, have all been sold to Beijing. Only direct U.S. intervention prevented Israel from selling Beijing AWACS technology.

Zionist forces are in control of the United States. When Ariel Sharon said:
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres, October 3rd, 2001, as reported on Kol Yisrael

-- it was no idle chatter. He was telling the truth. They have gained control through the Federal Reserve System [Updated Link] controlling the banks. They are also firmly in control in England. Hence the 2 allies will unite to fight a good fight for the greater good of Israel.

Just follow the trail of the money!

The United States has given Israel over 90 billion dollars in foreign aid. They continue this aid at a time when U.S. schools no longer can afford textbooks. Yet the standard 3 billion dollars of yearly aid goes on. Then there's the 12 billion in loan guarantees. And now Israel is asking for (and received) a 400% increase in aid. Miftah.org estimates the foreign aid to Israel to be closer to 8 billion yearly. I estimate that Israel receives 9.5 billion a year in aid. Here is the break down:
Foreign Aid: $3 billion, Loan Guarantees (normally): $2 billion (Note: the U.S. Congress has forgiven ALL loans to Israel in the past), private tax deductible donations: $1 billion, Israeli bonds: $500 million, Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) which guarantees all Israel's oil needs in the event of a crisis: $3 billion (The Oil funding is camouflaged in the Defense budget) = Total $9.5 billion.

This $9.5 billion of aid is the standard rate. However, 2003 was an exceptionally good year for Israel. AFTER the Israeli army killed Rachel Corrie with a bulldozer, (which by the way was most likely paid for with your U.S. tax dollars), the U.S. rewarded Israel by giving them an additional $9B in loan guarantees, $1B in military aid - [Would Israel have received $20 billion if they had killed 2 American college students?]

So last year Israel hit the lottery to the tune of a cool $19.5 billion. Or, put in another way, in 2003, Israel received $53.4 Million dollars a day from the traitors in Congress. Thats a very solid return on the AIPAC contributions that Israel pays out to U.S. Congressmen.

This is part of a broader package of up to $75 billion as emergency aid, directly connected to the war on Iraq. This amounts to 2500% increase in aid to support Israel in a war that they have claimed they are not involved in. Who is benefiting from the war on Iraq? Follow the trail of the money!

Each year Congress forgives loans made to Israel which costs U.S. Taxpayers more than all the foreign aid handed out.

Some sources indicate with all the hidden costs including the Strategic Petroleum Reserve factored in, the figure is more like $3 Trillion dollars !!!) Thomas R. Stauffer does. The summary of Stauffer's research was published in the June 2003 issue of The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. See this article for more: The Real Cost Of US Support For Israel.

Israel has installed one of, if not the most, sophisticated missile defense systems in the world. They were the first country in the world to use laser's to intercept missiles, at America's expense of course. In 2000 Israel introduced the Tactical High Energy Laser/Advanced Concept Technology Demonstrator (THEL/ACTD), the world's first high-energy laser weapon system designed for operational use, to shoot down a rocket carrying a live warhead. In contrast, in December 2002 Resident Bush ordered the U.S. military to begin deployment of their own national missile defense system to protect the United States.

Israel has launched its own spy satellite in 2002. A professor at the Israeli Technion-Israel Institute of Technology argued that the recent launch of an Israeli satellite means Israel "has established [its] capability to launch, by means of a missile, a payload to any location on the face of the earth."

Israel has acquired three Dolphin class diesel submarines in 2002 that it is arming with newly designed cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. According to Pentagon and Israeli officials, Israel now has a triad of land-, sea- and air-based nuclear weapons for the first time. Now, Germany has agreed to sell Israel another two Dolphin-class submarines.

Israel has its own radar warning system and has created a vast Home Front Command to prepare citizens and medical services for potential attacks.

U.S. military has plugged Israel into real-time war monitoring in the war on Iraq. Israel and the United States have set up a joint command post next to the U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv at which Israeli army officers will be able to view real-time pictures of the movements of American war planes over Iraq in the event of a war.
In addition, an American early warning system that is hooked directly into U.S. intelligence satellites over Iraq was transferred to Israel a few weeks ago, [February, 2003] giving Israel direct access to information on any Iraqi missile launches at its territory, with no delays and no filtering.
This War Is Also About Water - Israel needs new water sources to allow Israeli expansion plans. Iraq is the major source of water in the Middle East. Just as the war in Afghanistan was fought for the Unocal oil pipeline this war is being fought for oil and water pipelines to Israel.

Israel is now conducting assassinations of American citizens on American soil under the guise of "fighting terrorism" with the blessings of the US Government.

If a member of Congress were to merely question anything about Zionist political influence in Washington they would be committing career suicide. Many feel that Israel blackmails politicians involved in pedophile rings and uses photographs to control their votes. Very high level politicians have been implicated as well as Bushes.

In conclusion the evidence that Israel is behind the invasion on Iraq is more than circumstantial. You just need to look at who stands to gain from all this. Those that can't understand why Dubya is so determined to attack Iraq, probably haven't considered that Israel is running the show. If you just look at who stands to gain from Iraqi oil you see the picture but it doesn't seem to be the whole thing. But when you add the dancing Israelis and Senator Graham's statements about foreign governments involvement in 911 and Sharon’s orders on who Bush is to attack next, the whole picture begins to get in focus.

For those who feel 'so what if thousands of Iraqis die, as long as America ends up with the oil'. Those people will be disappointed also. Sure, Bush's buddies, the large corporations will get contracts to rebuild Iraq and make huge profits, but the BIG profits will be from Iraqi oil flowing to Israel. The Bush regime has already indicated it will not support lifting UN sanctions on Iraq unless Saddam's successors agree to supply Israel with oil. US efforts to get Iraqi oil to Israel are not surprising. Under a 1975 Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) engineered by Henry Kissinger, the US guaranteed all Israel's oil needs in the event of a crisis. The MoU, which has been quietly renewed every five years, also committed the USA to construct and stock a supplementary strategic reserve for Israel, equivalent to some US$3bn in 2002. Special legislation was enacted to exempt Israel from restrictions on oil exports from the USA.

To ensure the security of the Mosul to Haifa pipeline, the U.S. needs to neutralize Syria. Syria is too much of a risk. Israel wants the Mosul to Haifa pipeline to be secure for many years to come. Two US-made ‘democratic’ regimes in the region, one in Baghdad and the other in Damascus, would secure the flow of Iraqi oil to Israel and free the country from its dependence on pricey Russian oil. The entire Middle East will be reshaped in line with these concerns.

Yeah, well i guess as long as you're reading your information from the websites that want to make an argument that we went to war in Iraq to give Israel some oil that might actually be what the map looked like. In point of fact, there have been a few illegal small piplelines, but no major pipelines, going anywhere except for those below. Now....listen to me okay...oil must go to the sea to be transported. The safest places to take the oil to the sea, and the shortest places to take it to sea are going to be utilized. If it went to the port of Haifa, it would not BE FOR ISRAEL, anymore than going to Basrah or the port in Lebanon means it is going to be used by Southern Iraq, or the Lebanese. It means, there must be a way to get it out of the country. Now, get a few petroleum magazines, they are online, and get your head out of your already predisposed predudicial conspiracy sites!



THE OLD REGIME THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS A STATE SECRET!! IT WASN'T!

Not exactly, but just misleading enough to add some credibility to some nutcases theory!

Top Ten Armies of the World - According to StrategyPage 6/12/2004 7:47:54 AM
This is from today's (6/12/2004) FYEO:

ARMED FORCES OF THE WORLD: Who Has the Most Combat Power

June 12, 2004: Which country on the planet has the most powerful armed
forces? It's not a matter of numbers, although that's a major factor.

By size (number of troops), the top ten looks like this;

By Armed Forces Size

China
United States
India
Korea, North
Russia
Korea, South
Pakistan
Israel
Turkey
Iran

But anyone who has studied military history knows that the number of
troops is a misleading measurement. There are several factors that make
the troops of one army more effective than others. The most obvious
modifying factor is weapons and equipment (quantity and quality). Closely
related to this are the “combat support” elements. The most important of
these are logistics (being able to move troops, and their supplies, long
distances and in a timely manner) and maintenance (keeping things in
repair and running under all conditions.) Then there are the intangibles,
like leadership, training and the most intangible item of all; military
tradition. Apply all of those and you get a different top ten. This number
is called "combat power."

By Combat Power

United States
China
Israel
India
Russia
Korea, South
Korea, North
United Kingdom
Turkey
Pakistan

The most unusual entry here is Israel. But this is because Israel is one
of the few nations to have a reserve army that can be mobilized for action
more quickly than most countries can get their active duties into shape
for combat. The mobilized Israeli armed forces number over half a million
troops. In addition, the Israelis have world class equipment and weapons,
as well as exceptional intangibles. The downsize of this is that
mobilizing its armed forces also cripples the Israeli economy. Under these
conditions, Israel must conduct a war that ends within a few months. After
that, supplying the armed forces becomes difficult and actual combat power
begins to decline.

The other nations in the top ten have large armed forces that are well
equipped and trained, at least compared to most nations farther down on
the list. Britain’s armed forces, like Israel’s, are better equipped,
trained and more experienced than most. Turkey benefits from having a
strong military tradition and excellent leadership at the small unit
level, as well as good combat training.

Overall, the U.S. combat power is about three times that of second place
China, and ten times that of tenth place Pakistan. But another modifying
factor is how you plan to use that combat power. Wars are not fought in a
vacuum, but in places that often inconvenient places for one side. Most
armed forces are optimized for fighting on their own borders; for
defending the homeland. Only the United States is capable of quickly
moving lots of combat power to anywhere on the planet. Moreover, given a
few months, the United States can put enough combat power just about
anywhere, and become the major military force in that neighborhood.

Oh I already saw the 4th largest military rating in that piece and scratched my head on that, so no argument there.

Jordan has been in DC's plans for the oil for Israel for some time now. That oil line has already been there since the '40s built by the Brits. I am sure with all the sneaky plans going on with our BushCons, Big Corps, and the Treasury Dept, this plan for reopening this existing oil pipeline route is their pie in the sky objective using Irsael as the refinery

Oh yes... Israel does want that oil!

[The idea is economically tempting for Israel and some of its friends, especially those whose firms might profit from such a project. Oil-poor Israel, MEES reports, wants high-quality Kirkuk crude oil for its Haifa refinery. Israeli refineries currently use Russian, West African, Egyptian, and other crude oils.]



http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0423/p11s01-coop.html

April 23, 2003 edition

An old Israel-Iraq oil line ... reopening?
By John K. Cooley


ATHENS – Nothing could be better designed to undermine the coalition's promise that Iraq's oil should benefit its own people than Israel's proclaimed wish to "reopen" a long-unused pipeline from Iraq's Kirkuk oil fields to Israel's Mediterranean port of Haifa.

Israel's National Infrastructure Minister Joseph Paritzky was quoted in a March 31 Ha'aretz article saying that Israeli and Jordanian officials would soon meet to discuss reviving the line. Built by the British in the 1940s, the line crossed west from Iraq through Jordan to British-ruled Palestine (today's Israel). Upon the 1948 birth of Israel and the immediate eruption of war with Iraq, Jordan and other Arab neighbors forced its shutdown and the diversion of Iraqi oil through a branch line to Syria.

Arabs reacted with predictable fury to Mr. Paritzky's suggestion that the oil of a post- Hussein Iraq could flow to the Jewish state, to be consumed or marketed from there. Jordan's information minister instantly declared the story about Israel-Jordan meetings "devoid of truth," because Jordan's "relations with Israel are now very cold."

Despite the wishful thinking among President Bush's neoconservative and pro-Israel advisers, a post-Hussein Iraq is unlikely voluntarily to warm to Mr. Sharon's government. Since 1948, Israel and Iraq have been implacable foes. Unlike Egypt, Jordan, or Syria, Iraq has never been willing even to discuss an armistice with Israel, let alone a peace accord like those Israel signed with Egypt and Jordan - this despite some wishful mediation attempts by US and other Western business interests during Saddam Hussein's presidency.

Technically, Baghdad has been in a continuous state of war with Israel since 1948. It sent armies to fight Israel in 1948 and 1967, and to back up Syria's defense of Damascus in the October 1973 war. It has supported several Palestinian guerrilla and terrorist organizations, and during the current Palestinian intifada, Hussein subsidized families of Palestinian suicide bombers and other activists. Israeli officials have been rejoicing over the US-led war coalition's elimination of Iraq as a principal strategic foe of the Jewish state.

Nevertheless, the authoritative Cyprus oil journal Middle East Economic Survey (MEES) reports that the Washington hawks may insist that the next Iraqi government rebuild the Kirkuk-Haifa oil line, probably with major US firms. Walid Khaddouri, the MEES editor, explains that the idea actually involves building a whole new pipeline because the old one has been "cannibalized" and dismantled over the years, leaving no more than its old route traced on maps. This would add at least a billion dollars more to postwar financial burdens.

[The idea is economically tempting for Israel and some of its friends, especially those whose firms might profit from such a project. Oil-poor Israel, MEES reports, wants high-quality Kirkuk crude oil for its Haifa refinery. Israeli refineries currently use Russian, West African, Egyptian, and other crude oils.]

Politically, the scheme is a potential bomb. Its implementation could ignite a new explosion in the chain of reactions to the US invasion and occupation of Iraq, now beginning to reverberate throughout the troubled Middle East.

• John K. Cooley is an American author and former Monitor correspondent who has covered the Middle East and North Africa for more than 40 years.

If you really want a conspiracy that makes a good deal of sense, then look at this map. This is the map of the contracts issued by Saddam before the war. Look closely at the countries that were profiting....the same countries that opposed us on the security council DUH! I wonder why they did that!?

Yes, when Saddam was wheeling and dealing, he had his countries that he dealt with in the oil. Look at the UN oil scam... Jordan and Saddam was connected.... and Jordan is working with the BushCons.

Do you not think Israel is part of this Iraq oil plan tied with the BushCo folks?

Alexander's Gas and Oil Connections

volume 10, issue #6 - Wednesday, March 23, 2005

Foreign investors consider renewing Iraq-Haifa oil pipeline

02-03-05 Sources inform that a number of foreign consortia, consisting mostly of US investors, recently contacted Israeli government agencies and government company Petroleum and Energy Infrastructures with proposals to renew the oil pipeline to Iraq. The pipeline runs from Iraq through Jordan to Haifa Bay.
Former Minister of Energy Adv. Moshe Shahal heads one of the consortia. The projected renewed pipeline will follow the same route as the old one, which operated decades ago. A completely new pipeline must be laid for the purpose, with a much larger diameter than the current 12-inch pipeline. A 40-42-inch pipeline is needed in order to transport large quantities of oil.

The pipeline is designed to transport oil from Iraq to the Zarqa oil refinery in Jordan, and from there to the oil refinery in Haifa Bay. The pipeline will eliminate the need to use the Suez Canal, which has limited ability to handle large numbers of oil tankers. Excess oil reaching Israel can be transported by tanker from the Haifafuel terminal to other countries around the Mediterranean, and in Europe.
Fuel arriving from the Iraq will be stored in a terminal at Kiryat Haim, at least until the planned relocation of terminal to a site near the oil refinery in Haifa Bay, on the northern side.

Petroleum and Energy Infrastructures, which also operates the Kiryat Haim terminal, is responsible for the fuel port in Haifa Bay, the old oil pipeline, and the route of the new pipeline.
Petroleum and Energy Infrastructures CEO Rafi Taterka and Boris Ladar, manager of the Kiryat Haim terminal and fuel port, are promoting the new pipeline on behalf of the company.

Ladar believes that in the initial stage, 10 mm tons of oil can be transported from Iraq to Israel through the new pipeline. For the sake of comparison, Oil Refineries refines 12 mm tpy of oil in Israel: most of the fuel products consumed there.
According to Ladar, the Kiryat Haim terminal can meet the storage requirements if a new pipeline from Iraq is built. Taterka estimated that a $ 1 bn investment would be needed to renew the pipeline.

Source: Globes

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntm51217.htm

"which operated decades ago. A completely new pipeline must be laid for the purpose, with a much larger diameter than the current 12-inch pipeline. A 40-42-inch pipeline is needed in order to transport large quantities of oil."

Why? Because they closed the Syrian pipeline THAT'S WHY!

The oil has to go to a port! Why is that news! That is exactly what I said! It's not news that an old small pipeline existed, anymore than it's news that Iran used to have good relations with Israel....it's not causation, it's what is efficient when you need to get OIL out of Iraq to it's destination....which is not Israel, it's the whole world!

Oh heart, don't underestimate the powers of BushCo and Israel along with all the big corp oil companies... with our military might paving the way, setting up bases to protect such a rebuilt oil line, and building pump stations, this can very well happen. All that stands in it's way is the Arab countries of resisters who will fight to stop it.... that and or when American money stops after our economy collapses... so whichever comes first. Looks like your conspiracy assumptions towards our articles here, just may be reality.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=332835
Sun., June 05, 2005


U.S. checking possibility of pumping oil from U.S. checking possibility of pumping oil from northern Iraq to Haifa, via Jordan

By Amiram Cohen



The United States has asked Israel to check the possibility of pumping oil from Iraq to the oil refineries in Haifa. The request came in a telegram last week from a senior
Pentagon official to a top Foreign Ministry official in Jerusalem.

The Prime Minister's Office, which views the pipeline to Haifa as a "bonus" the U.S. could give to Israel in return for its unequivocal support for the American-led campaign in Iraq, had asked the Americans for the official telegram.

The new pipeline would take oil from the Kirkuk area, where some 40 percent of Iraqi oil is produced, and transport it via Mosul, and then across Jordan to Israel. The U.S. telegram included a request for a cost estimate for repairing the Mosul-Haifa pipeline that was in use prior to 1948. During the War of Independence, the Iraqis stopped the flow of oil to Haifa and the pipeline fell into disrepair over the years.

The National Infrastructure Ministry has recently conducted research indicating that construction of a 42-inch diameter pipeline between Kirkuk and Haifa would cost about $400,000 per kilometer. The old Mosul-Haifa pipeline was only 8 inches in diameter.

National Infrastructure Minister Yosef Paritzky said yesterday that the port of Haifa is an attractive destination for Iraqi oil and that he plans to discuss this matter with the U.S. secretary of energy during his planned visit to Washington next month. Paritzky added that the plan depends on Jordan's consent and that Jordan would receive a transit fee for allowing the oil to piped through its territory. The minister noted, however, that "due to pan-Arab concerns, it will be hard for the Jordanians to agree to the flow of Iraqi oil via Jordan and Israel."

Sources in Jerusalem confirmed yesterday that the Americans are looking into the possibility of laying a new pipeline via Jordan and Israel. (There is also a pipeline running via Syria that has not been used in some three decades.)

Iraqi oil is now being transported via Turkey to a small Mediterranean port near the Syrian border. The transit fee collected by Turkey is an important source of revenue for the country. This line has been damaged by sabotage twice in recent weeks and is presently out of service.

In response to rumors about the possible Kirkuk-Mosul-Haifa pipeline, Turkey has warned Israel that it would regard this development as a serious blow to Turkish-Israeli relations.

Sources in Jerusalem suggest that the American hints about the alternative pipeline are part of an attempt to apply pressure on Turkey.

Iraq is one of the world's largest oil producers, with the potential of reaching about 2.5 million barrels a day. Oil exports were halted after the Gulf War in 1991 and then were allowed again on a limited basis (1.5 million barrels per day) to finance the import of food and medicines. Iraq is currently exporting several hundred thousand barrels of oil per day.

During his visit to Washington in about two weeks, Paritzky also plans to discuss the possibility of U.S. and international assistance for joint Israeli-Palestinian projects in the areas of energy and infrastructure, natural gas, desalination and electricity.

Seemingly, everyone in Iraq understands, knows, and is none too happy with the fact that Syria is another Ba'athist regime that is supporting and helping the insurgency in Iraq....so YEAH....it kind of makes sense to me that the government will NOT want to do business with them, but would rather do business with Jordan and that involves the transportation of Iraq's main export OIL to the port in Haifa RATHER THAN through Syria to the port there. I would think that ANY Iraqi government that was NOT Ba'athist would arrive at this conclusion irrespective of Bush or anything else. If you do not want your oil pipeline sabatoged then it is best to lay it (if this ever happens at all) in territory that is friendly to you, not territory known to harbor your enemies.

Then, there is this:


"National Infrastructure Minister Binyamin Ben Eliezer (right) exchanged warm greetings with Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari at the World Economic Forum in Amman. (AP)"

So am I to conclude that you think that Iraq should NOT establish relationships with either Jordan or Israel because YOU think it establishes some kind of ex post facto causation for the war....but instead they should have all the same friends and enemies that Saddam had which would prove what exactly?

It's not a matter if Iraq should or should not establish relations with Jordan or Israel heart, but the concerning fact that force is being used by the US coalition forces to make decisions for who dies and loses everything or some who lives and keeps a little piece of their sand box. The sufferage inflicted now is much greater than what Saddam ever provided. No, I am not a supporter of Saddam, as I have stated before... as personally he was just another slug bucket dictator, but what country doesn't have their own portion of slug buckets ruling their country? We have ours in Goober Bush. My choice is for all to live in good relations and peace. I can not choose which Arab country should have it better over the other ones. I'd rather see them all have equal chances for survival and overall executed by their own ways and means, not outside intervention. For BushCo to step inside the Middle East boundries and choose who is the good guys and the bad guys is totally nonsense and wrong! Whatever sides are chosen, the other sides will resist and fight back. Simply the nature of the beast. Those many divides has begun to happen.

Jordan has been previously chosen to be the Arab friend of BushCo for working silently along with the Bush regime in this great oil plan. I'd be all fine and dandy with that idea if that plan was agreed to by the majority of the Arabs. I mean all Arab nations! Jordan has been chosen as the Arab ruler over all which may begin within the next 10-20-or 50 yrs from now and after the smoke settles. Per BushCo's secret plans and part of the PNAC movement, I believe that BushCo thinks that the existing boundries between Arab countries will now begin to deminish while Jordan slowly becomes the overall supreme Arab ruler. The problem with this entire picture is.... every Arab country made of it's own tribes and sects will reject and resist such a long range transformation in such a plan while some who may stand to gain some prosperity provided by BushCo, will cooperate. Many will die from these internal battles inside Arab leauges and nations.

I have no idea about is how Israel fits into this entire Middle East picture. Will Israel and the PAL resolve their problems? Will Israel and Jordan actually be at peace with each other in order to cooperate in this great oil plan? I feel that the governing bodies may.... in time, they will work in cooperation since big $$ is involved. The ppl of these nations will struggle with it, as they do now just as they have in their past. This is the same conflicting monster that has always existed and will in my best estimation. This is why I see this horrible plan put forth by BushCo a terrible mistake... waste of lives... waste of $$Billions and $$Trillions only to trigger our first segment for the nuclear age and WWIII. So who wins here?

Let me share this with you also. I read sometime ago that Cheney and the big oil corporations back during the mid '90s had begun discussing using Iraq's oil and pipe it to the Mediterranean Sea and or Persian Gulf. What they stated at that time was that this oil investment in Iraq would possibly run $6 trillion. That is why such a pipeline built between Haifa and Kirkuk can be done at such an expense, as they had already pinned it. It may take upwards to 10 years, depending on wars and sabotages due to these BushCon invasions in the Middle East. Nuclear mishaps or strikes may take place during this time now deciding just how far this crazy plan will go or when it simply becomes abandoned.

Now, for which this topic was started, I see the Kurds as once again, the loosers in this super oil plan. Don't get me wrong, I have always rooted for the Kurds in their pursuit for success in life, as I am a sucker for the underdogs in all walks of life. Enter the Turks who also are wheeling and dealing with the BushCons. I have a thread going in this section Turks vs Kurds, which pinpoints the immediate concern of the Kurds in their near future. How the dice is rolled with this great oil pipeline plan is totally up in the air and who wins and who looses. I personally see the Kurds being used as worker slaves on such a project... along with other Arab tribes who are desperate in making a living. This is what big corp does best in anything that it pursues. It seeks and finds those who are desperate and works them to the bone. Big corp does this to make huge profits for themselves offering only peanuts and usually a 'cya' after projects are finished. I also see 100s of 1000s more dying in this particular region that this pipeline(s) is laid. I feel that the Kurds will again be shafted again. The Turks will want what the Kurds may get as they now battle over similar disputes. The BushCons are only supporting whomever they can in who supports thier schemes and they pit them against the other to get what BushCons want in the end. So, at this point, I feel that the Kurds will fall short of what they are expecting... and the Turks stands to get it... my opinion. In time, the Arab boundries will begin to change or disappear and other BushCo selected Arab rulers gains temp control of regions that are up for grabs until in time, Jordan takes it all. Again, where does Israel sit among all of this? I could not tell you.... just in 10 years time, so much can and probably will happen on this planet that will change history like never before. Once the nuclear age actually engages itself into real time, there's just no way of knowing who will be left standing an even for those who are, the stakes concerning life and stability will be completely changed. I am 99% sure that when ever a nuclear exchange(s) may begin, Israel will be one target encountered.

While the $$ signs greatly blinds our BushCons and their allies for pursuing this maddening Middle East debacle, we ourselves here in America will suffer right along while we implode from within. Much of what many now still thinks is obtainable here in America just may not be there anymore in just a few more years. Just as I feel sorry for the Kurds... I am feeling very sorry for many American's dark futures. You must remember one thing, once the $ flow stops, it stops everything.... all across the globe.

Iraq may establish relations with Jordan, which is fine with me, but the end product will not be what the BushCo propaganda machine is painting. There will be 1000s of miles of great death and destruction in this 'great secret plan' but most of all, the money pit will cave in.

The problem with your overview above is that this is not what the title of the thread is, nor is it consistent with what you have posted in this thread. Picadilly posts an article critical of Kurd's and their tribes and parties...but that leaves me wondering why it is that no one can get anything done in the red state of Georgia, or the blue city of NY, or the blue city of Chicago ect...without contributing money to the local party bosses, or knowing the right people. How long ago was it that no one could even get a building permit unless they knew someone that would push it forward for them in the US? Not too long really, depending on where you are living. I think we often forget the "company towns" that existed in the US 50 years ago. We forget that the mafia controlled the unions and the local businesses in NYC right into the 1970's and some still now. In the WHOLE world, there are very few places where there is no corrution, and nepotism....but there are even fewer where the citizens can write articles complaining about it and feel safe. The Kurds stepped out of the traditional way of life from say the 1950's....as opposed to many other areas in the region where people are stepping out from far earlier periods of time (like the 7th century, and trying to adapt to the modern world). It's a bit like complaining that Northern Ireland is corrupt compared to Nigeria....well...yeah, Northern Ireland is very corrupt....but to portray them as equal to, or worse than, or unworthy of something relative to the rest of the world is unfair and sick.

The Second article you posted was a complete non sequiur, and it says that there are two bases called H1 and H2, standing for Haifa.....okay, so on the face of it this would make anyone sceptical. The military is very fond of using letters and numbers right? Shouldn't that have made you look a little bit further to verify this? Well guess what? There are three H bases, and they were called "H" bases when they were Saddam's airfields and launching areas. Have a look http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl...eneral/iraq.htm The article you posted simply DECIDES something is true, with absolutely NO knowledge of history. If there was some association with "haifa" then why is the Syrian Pipeline base called H2, when the scud lauching bases that were lobing SCUD's into is not even given a letter designation...and furthermore, it looks like the H designation may have been Saddam's and not the US military's name at all. Why would that be? Why not label them I or S for where the pipelines are going? Why not name them J since they were meant to be striking areas from Iraq to Jerusalem? And, did you even look at a road map of Iraq? Did you notice by any chance that these bases are on, or just off, major roads at crossing checkpoints toward the Jordanian or Syrian borders? Wouldn't we have every reason to put military personnel there to guard the main exits and entries into Iraq?

Here is the lovely part of your post:


Now, shouldn't this have sent your "tin-foil hat" on fire? Since, this is clearly insanity at it's worst? Do you really believe this? If it were true, would there BE ANY MORE Palestinians AT ALL? If Israel controlled the US Military how do you think this would work? Would the US have attacked Iraq? Why? Israel doesn't need oil, and Israel's economy is not strapped, and the risks would have been disasterous if the outcome was bad....and Syria would have been the better target, not Iraq...and the simple reason for this was that Syria funnels Iranian money to Hizbollah, and Saddam's checks to suicide bombers didn't even match for a second the amount Saudi and Iran were funnelling through Syria.

Then the quote goes on to say that this pipeline is fully intact and comes from Mosul, which it never did anyway. There really was a small pipeline that was barely able to trickle oil to Israel, and I even think this was being used for some time during the Kurds war against Saddam, but it was very small and mostly didn't work...but that was a long, long time ago and thus it could not be "paid for with the blood of soldiers"....blah blah blah...clearly this person would qualify for some psychiatric treatment. YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT RIGHT THERE! Or, you should have done the responsible thing and checked the facts before you spread this complete hate filled piece of work!

You put Joseph Goebbels to shame. Now, you can retract that piece of bull crap, or you can prove it point by point, otherwise you are complicit in hate-speech and incitement to hate....pure and simple! You want to talk about whose sandbox is whose, then be consistent and tell me you don't want any UN intervention or any US intervention even if it were Britain being invaded, even if it were Canada being invaded, and even if it were Taiwan or Darfur, or anyplace on earth....because no American soldier should ever die, by your logic to make sure that someone keeps their piece of soil. Is this what you are saying? Tell me? Which people deserve intervention and which do not?

Nobody deserves intervention heart...NOBODY! You and your Bushite buddies reach into your OWN bankroll and you guys support this BushCon machine and pay for every damn bit of what it will cost to support this crusade one mad under the Neocon PNAC pact that will only cost many more lives and suffurage upon tons more of destruction. You support this BushCon movement.... I will never support the garbage that Bush or you Busites stands for!

As far as the 'original' article that I posted here, that simply is a projection based on facts that the author found themselves and put together. I can see that author's projections being very close to right. It;s not something that came from the Pentagon heart, and being that this is a subject that BushCo always keeps in deep secret, this is basically as mush proof that we can come up with. The other articles does back up the fact that the BushCons are approaching such a pipeline project between Kirkuk and Haifa. Those articles proved you wrong in your own all mighty claims that Israel does not need or want this oil. Your lame knitpicking tactics here only makes me laugh at your attempt to dispell and protect the secret operations of BushCo just as what Bushites do to those who has the balls to let the cat out of the bag on these forums. You ignore the fact with how the Kurds will only be used long enough to set up such operations for BushCo / big corp friends only to be gobbled up by the Turks during and after the process unless you have secret inside information that states where the Turks and Kurds will be good buds and live happily ever after together. I wish they would, but my money is on the fact that it will not happen. BushCo has too much invested in the land of the Turks... not the Kurds.

You promote this main avenue for funneling US funds into your favorite Arab nation and the hell with what happens to Americans while our economy tanks from this idiotic BushCon corruption machine that has drug us into the Middle East that's costing us more lives and injuries along with the Iraqis who also are killed and mained. No heart, you are the example problem of today for which nobody wins in the end. Oh I know.... you stand for the Bush liberty and freedom crap. No you stand for how to bs folks to accept the fact that we all should be giving everything that 'WE' have over to others and the hell with what we had built for ourselves before the BushCons came along. It may work on some, but not all of us heart. We see right through your little guise of playing missy nice guy and boohooing for your ppl and trying to get folks here to lean towards supporting BushCo policies. Hey I'm all fine with who you suport but don't come pushing your propaganda crap on me and expecting me to buy into it.

As for the Kurds, when civil war begins to break out among themselves as further future wars are close to breaking out, they will be caught up in a world of chit and thereafter, as they depended on the BushForces to be there for them, well... they may not be there anymore. I suppose you think that the Kurds will have that BushCo support for many years to come. Go ahead and buy into that heart... and strap your 'own' tin foil hat when you do. Common sense says, when other war fronts breaks out, the BushForce in Iraq will have to leave and go to the next BushCon mess someplace else. You think the Kurds will be all safe and comfy then heart?? Go ahead and believe it... it all fits into your world of BushCo propaganda.

Here's a simply question for you to answer heart. Since the taxpayers of America keeps getting further soaked with all this foreign aid crap going out all the time, we will be sending something like $3 billion more to Israel soon, if it's not already happened. Tell me if we should maybe save the taxpayers some money this time. Lets knock $2 billion off that amount and lets give the Kurds a whopping $1 billion of free aid to set up shop in the Kurdistan region. Israel gets 0 and the Kurds gets $1 billion... would you accept that heart? Can we stop shipping our $billions to Israel and other countries while we send a fraction of it to help the Kurds? Will that work? It does for me, because we start saving money that has been mostly wasted for each country's own govt goldmine stash that they use among their selectt few who receives that money instead of helping their own poverished ppl. So which is it heart, Israel or the Kurds... who deserves some financial aid money?

The more the US supports governments of those countries which used to be the Russian Bear's playground, the bigger the chances that those countries see an organized nationalistic opposition develop.

Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Kurdistan.

The background is set, opposition is growing and my social quake oracle tells me there is +%60 and rising probability of conflagration in any of those countries in the next 18 months, with damage aggravation if conflicts happen in several of these countries at the same time, rising exponentially with the number of countries involved.

It's going to be dirty and bloody, bloody bloody.

This is an article from 2003 in Asia Times - the writer sees an Israeli oil connection in Iraq. A joint venture with the US to ensure ample oil for both countries.


Middle East

In the pipeline: More regime change
By Hooman Peimani

An Israeli daily, Ha'aretz, has reported that Israel is seriously considering restarting a strategically important oil pipeline that once transferred oil from the Iraqi city of Mosul to Israel's northern port of Haifa. Given the Israeli claim of a positive US approach to the plan, the Israeli project provides grounds for a theory that the ongoing war against Iraq is in part a joint US, British and Israeli design for reshaping the Middle East to serve their particular interests, including their oil requirements.

According to the daily, Israeli National Infrastructure Minister Yosef Paritzky considers the pipeline project as economically justifiable as it would reduce the country's cost of oil imports. This is currently very high, as Israel imports oil from Russia. There would also be a strategic justification for the project, as importing oil from an oil supplier in Israel's close proximity would increase its fuel security and would address its major handicap, that is, its total dependence on imported fuel from far-away suppliers. While living in the oil-rich Middle East, the Israelis cannot count on regional oil exporters because of the existing Arab-Israeli conflict. Prior to the 1979 Iranian revolution, Iran, which was on friendly terms with Israel, provided its oil requirements. That arrangement ended in 1979 when the new Iranian revolutionary regime cut ties with Israel.

Paritzky has requested an assessment of the Mosul-Haifa pipeline's current state, which ceased to operate in 1948. Presumably, the pipeline will require major repair and/or upgrading, if not an overhaul, as it has not been in use for more than half a century. However, its full operation, including the required repair work, needs the consent of Iraq, the would-be oil supplier, and Syria, a country neighboring both Iraq and Israel, through which the pipeline passes.

Iraqi consent will be out of the question as long as the current regime of Saddam Hussein is in power. As acknowledged by the Israeli minister, a prerequisite for the project is, therefore, a new regime in Baghdad with friendly ties with Israel. However, such a regime, if ever it comes to power, will still require Syria's consent to operationalize the pipeline. Given the overall political environment in the Middle East and Israel's continued occupation of Syria's Golan Heights, the existing Syrian regime will never grant its consent as long as the status quo prevails. As stated by the Iranian government, during the Iran-Iraq war (1980-88) when Iraq enjoyed cordial and close relations with Israel's mentor, the United States, Israel tried, but failed, to resume the oil flow through the pipeline. Syria, a friend of Iran and an enemy of Iraq, blocked the flow of Iraqi oil.

Hence, unless the pipeline were redirected through Jordan, another country bordering Israel and Iraq with normalized relations with Israel, the pipeline project will require a different regime in Syria. In other words, regime change in both Iraq and Syria is the prerequisite for the project. As Paritzky did not mention a redirecting option, it is safe to suggest that the Israelis are also optimistic about a regime change in Syria in the near future.

Oil pipelines are a highly vulnerable means of exporting oil, requiring a predictable long-term reliability of the countries through which they pass. Knowing this, the Israelis can only begin their technical assessment of the pipeline once they are convinced that the existing political barriers can be overcome. This requires new regimes in Baghdad and Damascus.

According to the Israeli minister, the United States will back his project since the pipeline would bring Iraqi oil directly from Iraq to the Mediterranean. In such a case, the Americans could bypass the Persian Gulf for their imported Iraqi oil, while having secured access to the world's second-largest oil reserves. Especially since the early 1990s, they have repeatedly expressed their concern about over-reliance on the Persian Gulf for their oil imports, which contains more than 60 percent of the world's proven oil reserves. Given the concentration of the major oil exporters in that region, its instability could interrupt or completely stop the flow of oil by oil tankers, with a consequent major impact on the US economy, as it is so dependent on oil.

To decrease their vulnerability to such a worst-case scenario, the Americans have sought to diversify their oil suppliers. Apart from the Caspian oil-exporters, they have resorted to non-OPEC (Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries) African countries (Chad and Angola), whose resources are also closer to the United States than those of the Persian Gulf and the Caspian Sea. However, these alternative suppliers could only allay the US fear for a while, given the small size of their oil deposits. Thus, in the long run, the US will have to import heavily from the Persian Gulf region, where existing oil reserves will outlast those of other regions, and while some of its oil-rich countries, such as Iran, keep finding new oilfields.

Given this situation, finding reliable alternative export routes and means to sea routes and oil tankers for Persian Gulf oil exports is the long-term solution for the Americans requiring an increasing amount of imported oil. In this regard, land-based pipelines to carry oil to easily accessible warm-water open seas such as the Mediterranean would be a suitable option. A fully operational Mosul-Haifa pipeline could address that US problem, while satisfying Israel's oil requirements at same time.

The Israeli oil pipeline plan, though, runs contrary to the stated US war objectives in Iraq. The two key members of the "coalition of the willing" - the United States and the United Kingdom - have rejected oil as a motivation for the war, a point not taken seriously by many all over the world. Nevertheless, the Israeli plan, the US-stated goal of securing Iraqi oilfields, including those of Mosul, and the declared US objective of a regime change in Iraq offer some evidence to the contrary.

Against this background, the US government's growing anti-Syrian rhetoric, including accusing Syria of supplying military equipment to Iraq, may well be the initial stage toward the expansion of the war to Syria. If this happens, it could lead to a regime change there to serve various purposes, including the cooperation of Syria in future oil exports via the Mosul-Haifa pipeline.

Dr Hooman Peimani works as an independent consultant with international organizations in Geneva and does research in international relations.

(©2003 Asia Times Online Co, Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact content@atimes.com for information on our sales and syndication policies.)


Apr 4, 2003

[quote=ghostgovt,Jun 5 2005, 05:00 PM
[QUOTE]Nobody deserves intervention heart...NOBODY! [/QUOTE]

Therefore, no genocide, no threat that hasn't launched their nuclear weapons, no blocking of any shipping channels, nothing...nothing...warrants intervention because why? Because these are not Americans? No American blood should be spilled to save other people? Then I guess the French should never have helped us gain independence from Britain right? You do not believe in mutual defense treaties either? How far are you taking this? Are you a pacifist? Do you allow forces to roll across Europe, roll across Asia and sit here and wait for them to come the the US? Or do you intervene ahead of time? I really want to know?

How far is it from saying that no other humans deserve intervention to saying that no person who is say....here in the US but from some other country does not deserve their rights, does not deserve political asylum, does not deserve intervention if they were being held as slaves by some Saudi prince here?

[QUOTE]You and your Bushite buddies reach into your OWN bankroll and you guys support this BushCon machine and pay for every damn bit of what it will cost to support this crusade one mad under the Neocon PNAC pact that will only cost many more lives and suffurage upon tons more of destruction. You support this BushCon movement.... I will never support the garbage that Bush or you Busites stands for![/QUOTE]

Then, what you are saying is you want to decide how your tax money is spent right? Yeah, so do the Republicans. They don't want any of THEIR tax money to be spent on birth control in Africa, or to help provide medicine for AIDS victims in Africa, or to help people right here in this country. NOT WITH MY TAX DOLLARS THEY CRY!! Sounds familiar!

[QUOTE]As far as the 'original' article that I posted here, that simply is a projection based on facts that the author found themselves and put together. I can see that author's projections being very close to right.[/QUOTE]

No, it wasn't a projection at all! The author stated that the pipeline was fully functional, fully operational, and that the bases named H1 H2 were named for Haifa and I've proven that it's a lie, and false, so don't try to bluster your way past the facts. What your article says is filled with outright LIES and with FALSE info that you did not bother to check, and now you're angry that someone called you on it.

[QUOTE]It's not something that came from the Pentagon heart, and being that this is a subject that BushCo always keeps in deep secret, this is basically as mush proof that we can come up with.[/QUOTE]

Nope. It's what you are predisposed to believe. It's the answer to all your misery. It's your favorite little conspiracy because you might have to deal with real world politics and real threats if you didn't find a nice little package deal to satifsy your brain when you don't really feel like thinking too hard, but want someone to blame. Othewise known as scapegoating.

[QUOTE]The other articles does back up the fact that the BushCons are approaching such a pipeline project between Kirkuk and Haifa.[/QUOTE]

No, it shows that the Iraqis and the oil companies are looking at the safest and best way they might go about selling their oil and transporting it to a port where all oil has to be sent in order to be EXPORTED!!!!

[QUOTE]Those articles proved you wrong in your own all mighty claims that Israel does not need or want this oil.[/QUOTE]

Where is that proof?

[QUOTE]Your lame knitpicking tactics here only makes me laugh at your attempt to dispell and protect the secret operations of BushCo just as what Bushites do to those who has the balls to let the cat out of the bag on these forums.[/QUOTE]

You mean I found your facts weren't correct in three of the first "fact" checks I came upon and acertained that the whole article was probably full of them and told you so. That's not nitpicking, that's laughing at what you will believe simply because you want to believe in martian stories.

[QUOTE]You ignore the fact with how the Kurds will only be used long enough to set up such operations for BushCo / big corp friends only to be gobbled up by the Turks during and after the process unless you have secret inside information that states where the Turks and Kurds will be good buds and live happily ever after together. I wish they would, but my money is on the fact that it will not happen. BushCo has too much invested in the land of the Turks... not the Kurds. [/QUOTE]

Yep, the secret for the Kurds is known to me . You see I understand what the Kurds needed to do in order to win, and they did it. They had to control Kirkuk and the Quandil mountains, and they had to win the right to keep the Peshmerga, and they did. Turkey has a 20% Kurdish minority, that will NOT allow Turkey to take over Northern Iraq, but more importantly neither will any of the surrounding nations and because the Kurds have sufficient defense since they took all of the Iraqi army tanks and weapons, and because they have visited Ankara and because they made a deal with the Turkomen, things are settled enough between the businessmen in Turkey and the Kurds to keep things quiet. That has nothing to do with Bush, that has to do with how much money the Kurds and the Turks are making by remaining peaceful, in spite of their politicians bluster...just like India/Pakistan and China/Taiwan....war is very unlikely if you are part of one anothe's supply chain.

[QUOTE]You promote this main avenue for funneling US funds into your favorite Arab nation [/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? What Arab nation is my favorite?

[QUOTE]and the hell with what happens to Americans while our economy tanks from this idiotic BushCon corruption machine that has drug us into the Middle East that's costing us more lives and injuries along with the Iraqis who also are killed and mained.[/QUOTE]

Yes, well I direct you back to the first question. You present a false dichotomy. Bush never had any intention of spending any money on the things you want him to and that's not what is harming our economy. The economic damage to our economy is not due to the war, but to tax cuts and a lack of investment in education to keep jobs here for our grads because we keep graduating half-illiterate people and the world needs people who have better skills. But your notion that the economy is tanking to the war is utterly simplistic at best!

[QUOTE]No heart, you are the example problem of today for which nobody wins in the end.[/QUOTE]

How is that?

[QUOTE]Oh I know.... you stand for the Bush liberty and freedom crap. No you stand for how to bs folks to accept the fact that we all should be giving everything that 'WE' have over to others and the hell with what we had built for ourselves before the BushCons came along. [/QUOTE]

Your plan is to hoard the money here in the US right? While the rest of the world goes to hell? You see, in countries in Africa that are Muslim or close to those countries there is a video tape circulating. It shows a couple of dogs in California and their owners. Not rich people, just doing okay....well the video shows the cost of their dog's food, the vet supplies, the dog toys and the little dog grooming routine. It shows the brushing and the bow, and it shows how much a vetrinarian costs when the dog gets a little hurt...and the video tells the people that watch it that America cares more about their dog than about you. You have a dollar a day to eat, and their dogfood costs more than that. Their dog groomer costs more than you would make in a year...and this makes them hate us, and recruits them to Islam and Jihad. So, if you think we should hoard all of our money, then I hope it's YOU that suffers, but more than likely it will be people that really DID want to help, and weren't just looking out for "Americans" only.

[QUOTE]It may work on some, but not all of us heart. We see right through your little guise of playing missy nice guy and boohooing for your ppl and trying to get folks here to lean towards supporting BushCo policies. Hey I'm all fine with who you suport but don't come pushing your propaganda crap on me and expecting me to buy into it. [/QUOTE]

First of all, I'm pretty up front about where I'm coming from and so seeing right through me would take the intelligence of a gnat. Second, I've never played little missy nice guy, if that's possible it's rather tangled in gender, but I get the point, and I am NOT, nor have I ever been "nice"...nor claimed to be "nice". I understand what I perceive to be justice, and everyone from Chomsky (who's he right?) on the left, to the people on the right want the same thing I want, a Kurdistan for the Kurds.....nothing "Bush" about THAT....in fact, it's more a Leftist cause than a Rightist cause anyway.

[QUOTE]As for the Kurds, when civil war begins to break out among themselves as further future wars are close to breaking out, they will be caught up in a world of chit and thereafter, as they depended on the BushForces to be there for them, well... they may not be there anymore. [/QUOTE]

Like Cambodia but different right? So, this is what you are advocating? They supported us but who cares, you would abandon them again? How "nice" of you. Your selfishness is soooo charming. Who exactly do you thank for getting you out of a proverbial slave relationship ghost? Who? Do you thank the people that put you there or do you thank those that got you out? Support for the US was hardly a choice they had, but they were thankful to the US for getting them out...and that's about as simple of a concept as "you helped me out and I want to thank you". I guess you think they should not be thankful, and should have joined the insurgents because.....ummm....they should have immediately said "Oh it's okay you gassed my people and it's okay that you treated me like a slave, and it's okay that you sold my womenfolk into brothels....I sure do want you back in power" Yeah right...now you're blaming the Kurds for being happy they are free! Great steel trap mind you have going on there ghost.

[QUOTE]I suppose you think that the Kurds will have that BushCo support for many years to come. Go ahead and buy into that heart... and strap your 'own' tin foil hat when you do. Common sense says, when other war fronts breaks out, the BushForce in Iraq will have to leave and go to the next BushCon mess someplace else. You think the Kurds will be all safe and comfy then heart?? Go ahead and believe it... it all fits into your world of BushCo propaganda.[/QUOTE]

Nope, the Kurds are doing what they need to do...making alliances with Turkey, Israel and Jordan. When the war goes elsewhere, if it does, the Kurds will be fine or even volunteer to help us!

[QUOTE]Here's a simply question for you to answer heart. Since the taxpayers of America keeps getting further soaked with all this foreign aid crap going out all the time, we will be sending something like $3 billion more to Israel soon, if it's not already happened. Tell me if we should maybe save the taxpayers some money this time. Lets knock $2 billion off that amount and lets give the Kurds a whopping $1 billion of free aid to set up shop in the Kurdistan region.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I could go for that. Sounds fine to me. Israel is weaning themselves off of US Aid because they don't want to be dependent on our dictates. I think that would give the Kurds a good start and then Israel can get their money, if they still need it, from China....only one problem, that money doesn't actually work like that, it's an accounting type arrangement and has very little to do with any cash changing hands.

[QUOTE]Israel gets 0 and the Kurds gets $1 billion... would you accept that heart?[/QUOTE]

No. That would be a stupid decision on our part, because we get back so much R&D and invention from Israel that it would be better to take away from the 3 billion a year we give to Egypt, for which we get nothing.

[QUOTE] Can we stop shipping our $billions to Israel and other countries while we send a fraction of it to help the Kurds? Will that work? It does for me, because we start saving money that has been mostly wasted for each country's own govt goldmine stash that they use among their selectt few who receives that money instead of helping their own poverished ppl. So which is it heart, Israel or the Kurds... who deserves some financial aid money?[/QUOTE]

Hold on a minute? Didn't you say that you did not want any money going anywhere but here? OH....I see...what you mean is if it goes to Israel....because you hate Israel right? It's fine with you if it goes to Kurds! WOO HOO! Bonus questions....sure let's do it....invest in the Kurds with the money we give to Egypt! That way, we secure the Kurds and we get the innovation and talent from Israel. I think we agree now

Israel....the expensive pet? YEAH RIGHT!

Altogether, the value of total expenditures on dogs and cats in the US economy was $360.1 billion in 2003.

Judging from its size, this is no paltry economy. How does this pet economy compare with the poor economies of the world? To give the poor economies the greatest advantage in the comparisons, we will measure their size in terms of international dollars. [8] By this metric, America’s pet economy is 1.2 times larger than the economy of Pakistan with a population of 148 million; it is 1.4 times larger than the economy of Bangladesh with a population of 138 million; it is 2.7 times larger than the economy of Nigeria, with a population of 122 million; and it is 10.6 times larger than the economy of Congo (Democratic Republic) with a population of 34 million; and 24 times the size of the Albanian economy with a population of 3.2 million. [9] In other words, the US pet economy is larger than most of the poor economies in 2003.

How does the US pet economy compare with the world’s poor economies on a per capita basis? In 2003, the 142.7 million dogs and cats in the United States enjoyed a per capita consumption of $2523. The per capita income of world’s 2.3 billion people in low income countries (LICs) was $2190 in 2003 international dollars. This means that the average mammalian pet in the US had a considerably higher standard of living than the average man, woman and child living in the LICs.

The American dogs and cats enjoyed a much larger advantage in their living standards over many individual LICs. The advantage over Sierra Leoneans was 4.8 to one; 4.1 over Tanzanians; 2.8 over Nigerians; 1.3 over Bangladeshis; and 1.2 over Pakistanis. The average Indian had a small advantage of 1.1 over American dogs and cats. The Chinese had a larger lead of 2.0. [10] It is heartening to note that these disparities are considerably smaller than the yawning gaps that emerge when we compare people in the rich countries against people in the poor countries.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:m323B...ed+states&hl=en

My cat did not say Iraq had WMD. My cat did not cause 1700 US deaths and 13000 casualties by urging war on Iraq. So I will take my cat over Isreal every time.

I understand that, but that's not the point I was trying to make. If you are totally against intervention of any kind, and you believe that "American" money is for our country and no one else then you have to understand that this is one example of how people are being recruited to become Jihadists. Then, when you look at the US GDP and even look at how much money we spend on pets in this country, it puts the amount of money in some context, which seems to be missing from the whole conversation. It's a metaphor...we care more about dogs than people and we are so greedy, so selfish that we don't even understand the context of the world we live in, nor the paultry amount we might be willing to part with just to feed, or school a child, much less the 3 billion (compared to 30 billion for the pet food) that goes toward Israel's accounting repayment deferrment on loans...they are loan guarantees!!!...Money does not get turned over at all...and we get back a BUNCH of benefits from Israel, and so it's more like paying them than it is like giving them money for nothing. I am simply against allowing people in the world to starve just so we can have everything, and they can not even eat or go to school. So, the position that Israel gets all of this undeserved money is ridiculous when put in perspective AND, not giving some money to the world to end poverty, hunger and illiteracy, is the most dangerous thing we could do for our national security.

(1) Under the Bush regime my answer stands..... NO INTERVENTION! These whackjobs in this Bush regime do not deserve the right to make such descisions anywhere across this planet for what they truly have intentions for as they are liars! They are profiteers USING Americans to do their dirty work. Genocide heart? Who goes about killing more ppl around the world than anybody else?? Genocide heart? What about all the other countries that acts of genocide is committed? Where is all our graciousness for saving lives in those other countries heart? What's happened in Korea heart since our war with them? Has there been deaths to their own ppl after that war because of America's presence there? How about Vietnam, now that was a real doozy huh heart? How many were killed after America left Vietnam heart? MILLIONS! How about Somalia heart? How about our govt interventinon in Haiti and all the others heart? Where have we truly fixed the world as we now still face the very same threats that we have for as long as we can remember. Russia is still a threat. China is still a threat. Japan still remembers the A Bombs that we dropped on them heart. For some of those that we have wared with, they still hold aggrievance and hatred deep in their hearts and if it came to them or us, you can bet when that time comes, they will cut our throats. Besides, how many of those countries we still give aid to heart? Yeah, they 'like' us as long as we keep giving them money. Is that how you win friends heart? Do you pay for their friendship every 6 mths or year knowing that when you stop paying for it, they'll hate you again. Is that how it's supposed to work heart? Are we, as Americans, supposed to pay pay pay all these countries all the time in order to stay in temp friendship and good relations with them?

That's what a National Defense is for heart... to protect the soil for which we live on. Where is most of our National Defense heart? It's on OFFENSE in Afghanistan and Iraq heart. Have you read about the National Guard levels in most all of our states heart? I didn't think so. They are dangerously low heart! Wanna take a guess as to why they are low heart? That I know you know... they are in a war zone created by BushCo. Want to know why we are vulnerable here heart? Not only can other attackers come onto our soil here due to the growing hatred for this US govt, but we are to use that National Guard to help with our own catastrophes in a state of emergency. Wise up heart... with a full Military Defense here in this nation, there's not many who will attempt coming to the US to fight us. They will if we are off in Asia and the Middle East tearing the place up. Whose left to defend our shores now heart? Are you at all good with simple math? Do the math.

(2) Yes, it's our tax dollars that is supposed to help Americans heart. I was never against a little portion of our tax dollars helping others, but nothing at the extent that is given away today! After reading how you think that American taxpayer's monies should be used in such ways as it is today, I now think it all should be cut off and yes, keep it here in Amercia. That's where it came from heart. It is our money! I know of plenty places and ppl right here in America that needs it just as bad heart. You have something against that money helping my own ppl of my own land heart? What about the Native Americans shoved away onto reservations who lives in squaller heart? What about single moms struggling more today? What about those who are on their own trying to live on $500 a mth if they are getting that? What about all the jobs outsourced overseas heart? What about millions of Mexicans coming across our borders to either be on our welfare system or work the few jobs that are left? Is this fair to my own ppl here in America heart? Our own ppl here are needing meds badly... going hungry.... leaving in filth. You think ppl on the other side of the planet deserves OUR monies over those of us here who needs it as badly too? Who else supports us heart? Who contracts and pays for our Military might to be on their land to fight and die for others under fictitious reasons heart? It's not by those who we are dying for, I can tell you that!

(3) I responded to your 'map' slander with that original posting of those maps heart. Hells bells heart... nobody would ever think that thosemaps would be the actual blueprint of what's going to be built and exactly where. Hell, I even agreed with you that Syria is a key factor in such a plan... as I myself can see a shortcut being used through Syria with such a new pipeline after Syria is taken over by the BushCons. It obviously can't through there until there's BushForces to maintain that area to protect such pipelines. The maps posted was to give you a general idea of where the proposed pipeline would run. Like I said, this particular map is nothing off the pentagon tables and anything may change as to it's routes. The military bases could be anywheres along that pipeline heart. Nobody knows now where they will be for sure. Same for the pumping stations.. it's not in stone yet heart. Just because Cheney and his clowns announced that this oil project would take $6 trillion to invest in, hell heart... it probably will end up $10 trillion plus! That too is not in stone. Your own ignorance still tries to push the imbedded propaganda that you spew for BushCo. We, here, have provided you with articles that pertains to the Israel Kurdish region oil pipeline connection. Your Bush supportive nature simply refuses to accept the fact that we know and will not budge on that fact. As far as the author of those maps, and you wish to shoot holes in his theories, then have at it. What I support is the plan for it to happen and the basic route that it's to take while American blood and innocent arab blood was spilled in order for it to happen.

(4) The opnly thing we may agree on at all is the fact that I am proud that the Kurds were able to find their place of peace and happiness where they now are. I can only hope that yo are right and that the Turks will remain at peace with the Kurds, but I have found other articles that reports incidents that says it differently. Lets say for now, these are only isolated incidents and that peace will prevail between the two. I just know what happens when major corrution fueled by greed comes into the scene and how things 'change' in such an event. Is not Iraq your favorite Arab nation? I could care less who your favorite nation is, but it's obvious that you campaign for Iraq for BushCo to keep pumping all that it can into Iraq. I understand your support for the Kurds, I have always stated that. It's just been your own rag to push about how we are against Israel or Iraq, or whomever you wish to rally for under the Bush flag.

(5) Bush's deficit doesn't hurt this economy???? Bush himself doesn't hurt this economy heart? Well lets just say this quickly... it's not just Bush as it's the entire GOP corrupt greed machine that hurts this economy. You are far more whacked than I suspected for you to make this ridiculous statement. Good God of mighty heart, you've not seen how this National Goober and his many Big Corp pals has hurt much of this nation's economy already, and worse yet, what's coming once we start paying off this horable deficit that's still climbs?!!! I know you have GOP blood running through your viens, but what does it take for you folks to understand what's coming ahead for Americans???? Oh ... then maybe you do know what's coming ahead for many Americans. Many will loose their properties and be so poor that they are forced with going into the BushForce military to be shipped to the Middle East and Central Asia to do it's dirty work and call that home from now on. Leaves more room for select others to come into America then, doesn't it heart? You like that idea of ppl who are originally from their land that is eventually forced to move into another country don't you? Oh I know you willnot admit that here.... and I wouldn't blame you.... but lets say we can figure that out for ourselves in what is up your Bushie sleeve.

(6) Well once again you are jibbering and rattling at will now. That's ok, kind of used to it by now from you. Your doggie story was cute. Boring but cute. Again, I'm for helping others under the CORRECT leadership. BushCo IS NOT that by far! Oh I know, lets say your breath here and remind you that I have stated that whenI said that I do not believe in any intervention by our country into other's affairs.... that's while under this corrupt regime of BushCo! Then, while under a better leadership, I do think there should be limits placed in order to better control the flow of monies and our military forces out of our own country into other foreign countries. America does not owe foreign govts any red carpet service heart.... we should only do things out of small favors and gratitude for better relations, and not all these dirty corrupt deals that's been going on. Where's the $9 billion missing in Iraq just a few mths ago? Oh who cares right? Look at all the money that comes up missing heart! It's all the time! Oh .... you say who cares right? Sure... that's the Bush mentality taht pushes that. Until we become an accountable govt should we then deal with foreign matters in bettering relations and spreading FREE goodwill. This national Goober is all about Profiteering for the Big Corps and screw the little ppl. Oh I know heart, deep down you like that idea. Again, I don't expect you to admit to that. Trust me, I know where you are coming from.

(7) Well, at this point of your rambling heart, it's difficult to follow your trickery. Oh I know you support the liberal views, so you claim, but that's ok... we'll pretend to buy into that ok? As far as Cambodia... and you may as well add Laos too, I think your shifty wording here is doing it's best to somehow connect me to the fact that I wish to bail on the Kurds, yet I support helping the Cambodians and Laostians. To help make it clearer to you, not that you'll understand or want to, my original point with those countries that we invaded during the '60s and '70s is that because we were there doing that, we left behind tons of destruction then and more destruction that continues on today without our physcial presence there. I also do notmind if in fact, we'd smartly (under a decent leadership) give something like a $ million in aid a year to them.... to help them to redevelop better to help themselves. I'm all for giving them the educaion and advice for advancing themselves... to anyone who does deserve such attention. You try so hard to make it sound like that I am against the Kurds.... or wish them to fail. No heart, those are your own republican flavored talking points seeping through here, in effort to convince others that you are the supreme know it all here and that you are on their side here as well. Not all has bought into your smokescreens here heart. Don't fret... you still have little hangouts that you have special loyal followers who buys into your propaganda and trickery. You are not all alone. Again, how you twist the fact that I somehow wish the Kurds to fail... wrong again Bush breath. I've simply pointed out how things will happen under such a corrupt regime in BushCo and not only BushCo but the entire BushCons. My concerns about the Kurds is that they be used just as what our govt does when they go around spreading 'freedom' as they leave behind a trail of death and destruction. Are you so blind that you really don't see how govt uses ppl heart? You're not that stupid are you? I truly don't think you are that stupid and only trying to somehow present this rosey picture in order to convince folks here that our $$ is good to send overseas (your salesmanship)... and or that you are in one hell of a denial trip glazed over by these Bushie promises. Like every other big corp project, the locals will be used like slaves... and that's all they are needed for. Some will remain on the payroll to stay with such a project and many will end up in the land of lost hopes again. I see you have no clue to how other war fronts will cause such projects to be put on delay and or dragged out to where they really never make it. If this were 20 years ago heart, and we were there in the Kurdish region on a peacefull mission to help Kurds to be a part of such an oil project, then yes, that project could benefit all if done correctly. Even Saddam could have been one to convince to go along with such a project... since he would have still been paid by our govt to do as we wanted him to do. We created Saddam, just as we created OBL, so all of this is part of the blueprint anyways heart. This goes way back in time when our CIA and think tankers all gathered about and planned out these little adventured over there all designed to hoodwink Americans and suck our monies way. So sure, 20 years ago, we could have started such an oil project that even included Saddam's cooperation with such a project. Only reason that it wasn't because it wasn't as profitable for the Neocons as to do it the way it's been done has total control over everyone and Congress... while raking in the super major big bucks just as planned. Oh I know this goes over your head some... and you'll come back with your conspiracy claims towards it all.. that's ok heart... you do that. There's some here that knows heart... they understand what you are up to and they know what's going down with this corrupt govt of ours now known as BushCons. You can still try to push your propagfanda and lies to support these BushCons, for you are only interested for what it brings you in money... you and those who you are connected to overseas. I understand that... and you can simply try to convince others here that you are all up for this BushCo game and how well it's going to make us all. So far I still see a majority here in this forum whp knows that all of that is total bunk! You have the right to spew... and I still support your right to do that.

(8) I see that you ended your response with just that....spew. Again, under this courrent corrupt govt, we need not to be giving any of our American monies out to anybody! All Bush is doing is buying friends and support from the international community that is only making those dictators themselves richer. Being that he's such an idiot, he actually thinks that ou money has made true friends. Once the money stops, we'll see how the true friends are. Oh sure, Israel should be one of the last ones to stop likeing us if such money did stop. Hell, we have sunk $trillions into Israel... so they would certainly be one of the very last ones to turn on a stopped check from America. For the record heart, so you do not start spewing off at the brain again, not that this will stop you, but when I say Israel, it's not the common ppl of Israel that I am refering to. It's the govt. Just as here in American, I speak on mostly the behalf of this corrupt govt of which not everybody (only some) is involved with the actions on behalf of this Goober now in office. Now as far as Israel and Iraq setting up an oil deal. Sure... I'm good with that if the American ppl are told the truth of what the arrangments are for that. Why were you so objective to this idea in the first place heart? You claimed like no such thing was being discussed or considered. You now act all supportive of the idea... that it would be good for the Kurds for this to happen. I agree... if 'all' of the Kurds benefited from it. If the Americans benefited from it. If the Israelis benefited from it. Not just the govt officials and big corps involved heart.... all the ppl. You seem as such a project begins and 5-10 yrs later we have this great new oil supply, hows it help consumers that such crude oil will cost us $5+ a gallon in that amount of time? That also again, inflates our entire economy as it has been doing, so how does regular ppl make it on such high prices heart? Have you got that figured out when gas and milk cost over $5 a gallon and wages only increase on the average under half that amount? If you have not yet seen this trend taking place already in American heart, then you have been spending way too much time living under a govt desk and reading way too much propaganda.

I see you are packing a special hardon for Egypt heart. Is there not some good ppl from Egypt heart, or are all of the Egyptians very evil ppl? I have known for the Egyptians to get along with Americans fairly well.... so why are you pressing so hard on them in much of what you write? Now run back to the lifer hootch and get your resupply of ammo. Your Bush policy propaganda is getting weaker.

In my haste to leave this morning, and as I was editing my original post above, the time period ran out so I am pasting the edited version here.



(1) Under the Bush regime my answer stands..... NO INTERVENTION! These whackjobs in this Bush regime do not deserve the right to make such descisions anywhere across this planet for what they truly have intentions for as they are liars! They are profiteers USING Americans to do their dirty work. Genocide heart? Who goes about killing more ppl around the world than anybody else?? Genocide heart? What about all the other countries that acts of genocide is committed? Where is all our graciousness for saving lives in those other countries heart? What's happened in Korea heart since our war with them? Has there been deaths to their own ppl after that war because of America's presence there? How about Vietnam, now that was a real doozy huh heart? How many were killed after America left Vietnam heart? MILLIONS! How about Somalia heart? How about our govt interventinon in Haiti and all the others heart? Where have we truly fixed the world as we now still face the very same threats that we have for as long as we can remember. Russia is still a threat. China is still a threat. Japan still remembers the A Bombs that we dropped on them heart. For some of those that we have wared with, they still hold aggrievance and hatred deep in their hearts and if it came to them or us, you can bet when that time comes, they will cut our throats. Besides, how many of those countries we still give aid to heart? Yeah, they 'like' us as long as we keep giving them money. Is that how you win friends heart? Do you pay for their friendship every 6 mths or year knowing that when you stop paying for it, they'll hate you again. Is that how it's supposed to work heart? Are we, as Americans, supposed to pay pay pay all these countries all the time in order to stay in temp friendshi