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Livyjr
All things happen in life in the order that they will happen, and so .....

As for me, one brief moment back in 1969 was to change my life forever, when the warhead of an RPG-7 rocket grenade exploded right behind my head, and so ....

And so, I was to learn a whole lot about OUR alleged and supposed "system of health care", over here, and early on, I came to the conclusion that if I was to depend on that "system" in any way, it would be to my detriment, because I found it to be totally undependable, unless you want a load of pills, and well, it sure does have a lot of those, BUT ......

A doctor who I did trust told me point blank that if I started on pills way back then, well, it was going to be a long way down after I took the first one, and it would not be pleasant ......

So what to do, then?

What to do, indeed!

Turn inwards, perhaps?

Utilize the power of the mind?

And how?

How do you find out how to do that?

When you live out in the country, as I did, and still do, how do you learn to cope with being a disabled combat veteran, when nobody around "has what you got", and there are no books on the subject?

And first of all, how do you get past the aversions of the "perfect people" over here who are so squeamish about people with head wounds, or mocking, which is much more common, I have found, anyway?

Well, the answer that I found is that you go around these people, and you go around obstacles, and you find a way!

Or you suffer, and then you die!

Yes, that's right!

Harsh, but true!

And so .....

Now, of course, it is years later, and well, I can do things that I could not do in my forties, and I am still here, and vertical, which is where it all starts, for me anyway, and the "vehicle" by which much of that has happened is an ancient Chinese art called "t'ai chi", which over the years, I have been lucky to learn a considerable amount about, thanks to the "universe", I guess, and its kindness towards people like me, who have been harmed by life, but wish to keep living it, despite that.

And so, as an alternative to all these other threads in here, which describe a world that is very threatening to me, as an older person, since I don't have the "reserves" that a younger stronger person has, naturally, what I want to do in this thread is to take some time and describe my own "journey" in the world of "natural healing", as it were, in the hopes of clarifying both t'ai chi, and chi gong, to an American audience that can benefit greatly from this ancient art, which is firmly grounded in science, as well, and acute knowledge of how the human body can function, when in sync with the power of the mind, and that is a possibility that must be "actualized", because it is latent, until activated, and that is what the teaching methods of t'ai chi are really all about, which is something that I now understand, and appreciate, and can relate, after some thirty years of study on this subject, to not only keep myself alive, but with quality of life, as well.

To be continued .....
Livyjr
Ling!

Shen!

Xin, and Yi!

And the five "regulatings".

That is where we will start, for that is where the "power" flows from, and the "five regulatings" are the key to "unlocking" that power, which is considerable, indeed.

LING - simply, light and airy; nothing more, nothing less!

Of course, to be LING, what must you do with worry?

SHEN - the Spirit of Vitality!

To be vital!

SO?

What does that mean, then?

XIN - the "emotion" mind, or the "monkey", by way of visualization.

YI - the "wisdom" mind, or the "mountain", which is visualized as a horse.

We are born with both, and both are necessary to life, especially the "emotion" mind, which is linked in the chi gong "system" with body movement, itself, and hence, the life of the "physical" self, or the body, which brings us to the "five regulatings", the "heart of the system", as I now know it:

First, regulate the body;

Then, the breath;

Then, the mind;

Then chi; and

Finally, the spirit!

Which brings us back to Shen!

To be continued ......
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 11 2005, 04:04 PM)
Ling!

Shen!

Xin, and Yi!

And the five "regulatings".

That is where we will start, for that is where the "power" flows from, and the "five regulatings" are the key to "unlocking" that power, which is considerable, indeed.

LING - simply, light and airy; nothing more, nothing less!

Of course, to be LING, what must you do with worry?

SHEN - the Spirit of Vitality!

To be vital!

SO?

What does that mean, then?

XIN - the "emotion" mind, or the "monkey", by way of visualization.

YI - the "wisdom" mind, or the "mountain", which is visualized as a horse.

We are born with both, and both are necessary to life, especially the "emotion" mind, which is linked in the chi gong "system" with body movement, itself, and hence, the life of the "physical" self, or the body, which brings us to the "five regulatings", the "heart of the system", as I now know it:

First, regulate the body;

Then, the breath;

Then, the mind;

Then chi; and

Finally, the spirit!

Which brings us back to Shen!

To be continued ......
*

You are an amazing individual, Livyjr. I will read this thread regularly.
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Jun 11 2005, 08:34 PM)
You are an amazing individual, Livyjr.

I will read this thread regularly.

And actually, I am just average, much like the tortoise in that story of the race between the rabbit and the tortoise, in that I just keep on plodding along here in life, and that is what keeps me involved with t'ai chi, and chi gong, which is the power of the state of mind that they are able to help one induce in oneself, because in the end, the only one responsible for your "attitude", or "outlook", is yourself!

You got to walk that lonesome valley, you got to walk it by yourself, ain't nobody else can walk it for you ........

And when you set out to do that, walk that valley, well, you find out, first of all that it is not lonely ......

SO?

What am I saying here?

It's about self-fulfilling prophecy - everything that you believe you cannot do will in the end be true, if the power of your belief, or is it deception, is powerful enough to convince you that you are right!

As for me, I believe that anything one human being can do, can be achieved, potentially, by anyone else, and so, that thought sustains me as I continue on this journey through life down here on this earth of ours.

Mental attitude!

The third "regulating".

And maybe, in the end, the most important of all!

The mind!

That is where it must start!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 11 2005, 05:04 PM)
LING - simply, light and airy; nothing more, nothing less!

Of course, to be LING, what must you do with worry?

SHEN - the Spirit of Vitality!

To be vital!

SO?

What does that mean, then?

And with respect to LING, and SHEN, what you want to do is "think" LING, and "be" SHEN.

THINK light and airy!

BE the spirit of vitality, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE NOT!

SO?

Where do you "be" SHEN, then, if you are not really the "spirit of vitality" made manifest in the flesh?

Why, in the mind!

Re-paint the picture!

That is what this is all about, after all, transformation!

Alchemy!

Turning lead into gold, except that there is no lead, and no gold outside of the idea of that transformation even being possible in the first place, and in reality, the "lead" that you are really working with is your former self!

That is the lead that you want to transform, because lead is very heavy, and we want to be light and airy, instead, in our whole being!

SO!

Just lightly ponder that then, and avoid excessive intellectualizing as to how that can be done, and how you will go about it, and how fast you can do it, especially, because that will have you over into being like the rabbit, and everytime I read the book, the slow tortoise still always wins, in the end!

You have a lifetime in which to transform yourself, so why devote just five minutes to the task?
Livyjr
So, Livyjr, what then is chi, goes a commonly asked question, and my answer, at this point, is that it is "life force", or that is how I have come to think of it, in our terms, and so, that works for me, as I use this "system" to maintain my own health and well-being, as well as to improve my own quality of life, by having mobility, and balance, despite the gradual degradation of my spine, caused by my wounds in Viet Nam!

And that word "system" brings me to a second question that people have, which concerns any differences between yoga, as it is taught over here, or so far as I know, anyway, versus this Chinese "system" that I have been lucky enough to "tap" in to, and here, the operative word, to me, is "system".

Yoga, of course, has its origins in India, while the system that I study has its roots in China, in the Taoist tradition, while yoga comes from a different set of traditions altogether, and I think an important thought here, is that there was an invasion of India somewhere around a thousand years ago, and much of the culture that produced yoga was totally destroyed, or displaced, and so, I think that perhaps some knowledge was lost, as regards how that system had once been, while in China, because some of the sources were isolated in the mountains, such as Wu Dang mountain, the knowledge has survived down to our present times, and now that China has opened up more to western visits, and places like Wu Dang Mountain have become more accessible, as a consequence, the richness and fullness of the total Chinese system is becoming more available, through the efforts of people like my own teacher and a man in Boston named Yang, Jwing-Ming, both of whom are constantly searching for knowledge, and then translating that knowledge from Chinese, to a form that we can readily comprehend, and one reason that I have this thread going is to be a source for some of that knowledge, which I have gained from people like these, and then, through my own continued study, I have learned how to "re-format" this knowledge into an english that might be more readily comprehensible than some translations, simply because I am an American, from here, and so, when I use words, it is with my own background in mind, whereas translations sometimes falter, because the person doing the actual translation does not have the experience of life, here in America, as well as the "system", as it is studied traditionally in China, so as to be able to render the best translation!

Or that has been my experience, anyway, with my own teacher, who is Chinese, and who has learned to use english as a language, but not necessarily in the manner that I "think" in english, and so, there is where my translation ultimately differs from his, as being from here, I just have a different grasp of the language, and so, how I would use our language to describe to another American exactly what it is that I am about, when I am doing chi gong, or t'ai chi!

And that brings us back to "chi", and why it is so hard for people to grasp what "chi" is, because in Chinese, it does carry several different meanings, depending upon the context of the conversation!

Another part of that, of course, is that over the years, I have been able to sort through all of the various "knowledge" available, which is considerable, and what I have been able to do, through application to myself, is boil down what you really do need to know, in the beginning, from all that is available, since there is so much information now, it is overwhelming, and so, people are driven away, by that fact, believing that they must memorize all this stuff, so as to be able to do t'ai chi, when such is not the case, at all.

I ask people to remember how it was that they learned to read, and invariably, they will recall learning the alphabet, first, and that is the way that this "system" is taught traditionally, as a bunch of discrete "letters of the alphabet", if you will, that can stand by themselves, or be strung together, as letters of the alphabet can be, to make words, sentences, phrases, paragraphs, and ultimately, whole volumes of novels, which is what the "long" forms are to me, just like a novel, and you are the central character, and the topic of the novel is your own life!

To be continued ....
Livyjr
"Beginner's mind"!

That is another thing that I wish to make mention of in here, as a way to go through part of life, anyway, especially if you are going to do as I have done, which is to embark on this t'ai chi journey that will take you to meet the rest of your own life, head on, if you will just let it!

Beginner's mind!

Openness!

No preconceptions, no judgments!

Watch a really young baby lying on its back in its crib, when it is contented, and looking around, and you will see "beginner's mind", in action!

Especially watch the baby's eyes, you will see something coming from them, and connecting with all that the baby focuses on!

Everything is new, everything is fresh!

And then .....

Well, we got older, don't we, and opinionated, and then, we have to defend our opinions, and ......

What was that you said?

Don't have a lot of energy today?

Hhhhmmmmm, how about that?
Livyjr
Stress!

And "chi" channels!

Is there any connection between the two?

Well, having experienced stress in my own life, and having effectively, in my own life, again, used t'ai chi to counter the effects of stress on the human body, I would say there most definitely is a connection, and I would further say that modern medical science agrees with me, which is really where my "search" began, back in 1975 or so, five years after I got back from Viet Nam as a person with fragments of metal lodged near his neck, in his cervical spine, that was making each moment of my life an agony to be endured, and not much more than that!

Back in that time, which was unique, in many ways, there was a lot of research going on that was multi-disciplinary in nature, involving medical people and scientists working together on this "bio" thing that was the rage back then, and today, too, as far as that goes, but back then, computers were, in essence, still in their infancy, far removed from the power that is packed in them today, and so, there was a lot of study going on in this field of "cognition", which involved how we "see" things, and how we recognize, or make sense out of what we see, so that maybe machines could be made to "think" like humans do, and so ....

At that time, I was a member of a scientific research society which had an excellent magazine titled American Scientist, if you can find them in a library somewhere, and they were printing all manner of cutting edge articles on this field of human thought, and how the brain worked, and such, and because of the advance in microelectronics in that same period, "microscopes" were invented that could look into cells and such, and one thing that always fascinated me, from these studies, especially as one who was wounded by a "projectile" weapon intended to destroy human flesh, was one particular study where a high-powered microscope actually showed that if a muscle fiber were severed on a microscope slide, that the two severed ends would know across the intervening space, where each other were, and they would actually try and close that gap, and rejoin, which is something I will speak to in more detail, as we move along here.

Being an engineer, another thing I learned is that velcro, which we all take for granted these days, actually was designed to simulate human tissue, especially that found around the knee joint, which is the weakest, and maybe most ill-designed joint in the human body!

Suffice to say, this modern knowledge is valuable to have, when you are a person like me who has to struggle, where others can freely run, and that is why I have adopted the tortoise tactics for myself, because in the end, they work - for the long term!

Now, if this all appears to be rambling, please bear with me here, if you will, because behind the madness, there is method, and if anyone really wants to get benefit out of t'ai chi, which I consider to be a "tough-love" kind of thing, meaning it gives you exactly nothing back if you put nothing into it in the first place, after all, we're not talking outright magic in here; well, you have to put something into it, first, and that starts with accepting responsibility for yourself, especially your knees, and learning some about how the body really is connected, and how it works, which to me, is miraculous, BUT NEVER TO BE TAKEN FOR GRANTED!

This is what these "regulatings" are really all about, and to use the power of the "regulatings" to improve the quality of your own life, well, you have to first come to a point of where you want to change, or need to change .......

To be continued ...
Magmak1
Blessings and kudos, sir. You have another apt pupil here. Wish I could spend some time under the pines learning this and more from you.
Livyjr
QUOTE(Magmak1 @ Jun 13 2005, 11:39 AM)
Blessings and kudos, sir. 

You have another apt pupil here. 

Wish I could spend some time under the pines learning this and more from you.

Welcome, indeed, Mr. Magmak1!

Good to hear from you!

Hope all of your own endeavors are going well!

As for me, it is under the oaks that I have lately been!

There is a grove of them behind me, and I have cleared a space back there, under them, and well ......
Livyjr
SO?

Where then is the mind?

Many times, if I am with a group of people interested in t'ai chi, I will ask them to point to their minds, and invariably, people point to their heads, while I, at the same time, will be making a sweeping arm gesture that completely encompasses me, because my mind is not just in my head!

However could you function, if your mind was stuck in some small spot up there somewhere in your head?

SO?

Where then is the mind?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 13 2005, 03:01 PM)
SO?

However could you function, if your mind was stuck in some small spot up there somewhere in your head?

SO?

Where then is the mind?

And where IS your mind?

Your hand is clenched!

Why?

Where is your mind, when your hand is clenched?

And more to the point, HOW is your mind, when your hand is clenched?

Can it be unclenched, at the same time?

And is that strictly a "yes", or "no", answer?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 13 2005, 07:40 PM)
And where IS your mind?

And actually, that is a question that I ask over and over again, as I do t'ai chi, and as I work with other people in a Tuesday morning group, who have been involved with t'ai chi, in some cases, in the same place for fifteen years, or better.

And in that group, at 59, I am one of the younger ones!

Because our teacher goes to China regularly for further information on t'ai chi, and chi gong, we have been exposed to many different people actually doing t'ai chi, outside of our teacher, so that all of the "flavor" of the art can be experienced, by each of us, in our time!

Out of that "experience", I myself have met such personages as Master Pan, and Chen Jeng Lei, and Professor Lee Di Yen, and so, first hand, I have been able to observe these people, as they talk, as they move, and therein volumes are spoken, indeed!

So I now have a wide range of "styles" that I personally practice, and I also have a bunch of what are really "gongs", or "energy studies", or "energy work", and these are what we talk about on Tuesday mornings, these other people and I, and as our focus, we do a routine from China named "WuJi Chi Gong", which is of tremendous benefit to the spine, in my experience of it, which is why I personally do this particular sequence, and after watching me, over time, these other people have become interested, and so, now, we all do the sequnce, and as we do, I'll ask about this move, or that move, where is the center, where is the breath, where should the breath be now, if at a certain future time, you need it to be somewhere certain, which is either lungs empty, about to fill, or lungs full, about to start emptying!

And here, I hear someone saying to themselves, "ah, I don't know, Livyjr, that sounds like a lot of memorization to me", and my answer would simply be "okay".

I've been doing this for quite a while now, and I continue to do it because there is no memorization, but that is just my simple way of looking at things, I guess!
jeffmoskin
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 14 2005, 11:29 AM)
And here, I hear someone saying to themselves, "ah, I don't know, Livyjr, that sounds like a lot of memorization to me", and my answer would simply be "okay".
*

Can you memorize if you no longer have a memory?
Livyjr
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Jun 14 2005, 12:43 PM)
Can you memorize if you no longer have a memory?

That's actually the best time to start learning, jeffmoskin, when you have managed to finally shed memory, and all the judgmental stuff that happens in there!

The monkey is made tame, and you are firmly on the back of the horse, and the tiger is in your arms, content, and asleep, and as for you, why, it's time to head back to the mountain ..........
Livyjr
And so ......

If asked, of course, I would say that "mind" is distributed, so that all of you is "mind", or none at all!

I prefer, of course, to consider that all of me is really "mind", made manifest, and so, I actually have a pretty low-energy path to tread through life, as a result, because I don't have to practice any exclusion, which practice starts sucking up vital energy, the more one tends to discriminate nature into the ten thousand things!

Me?

I just leave nature to be nature, and so long as nature continues to afford me that small space that I am occupying, well, all is well with the world, with me, anyway!

NO CONTENDING!

SO?

How about that, as an alternative?

Or aren't we allowed to do that, in this modern world; not contend, I mean?
TheRestofUs
I will listen Livyjr;

I will not speak as I have become too angry at this forum, and myself. I lost my self image recently (past year or so) and am trying to rebuild it. I find that I stopped growing emotionally at about 12 years old, and that 12 year old had learned a "bad" lesson. No one is to blame, but "he" learned that he was "tainted" racially, and that he wasn't worthy of love and respect. He believed that and therefore doesn't love himself, and therefore can't love others.

My adult self's personality was a construct built to hide this emotional fact. It has shattered and I now have to learn to "Be" all over again. I take responsibility for this but it has been hard. I stay away from freinds that have known me because I am no longer the person they knew. I am no longer the person I knew. Oddly enough I have found the begining of an emotional core symbolism in the "emoticons" used on this forum, and I find I can begin to give love to myself and others by visualizing the "core" of myself and other people as one or more of these symbols.

I know this sounds bizzare, but I will listen and read as you speak because I sense your strength, maturity, and wisdom.
Livyjr
QUOTE(TheRestofUs @ Jun 14 2005, 01:52 PM)
I will listen Livyjr;

I know this sounds bizzare, but I will listen and read as you speak because I sense your strength, maturity, and wisdom.

No, it's not bizarre, at all, or at least, I don't think so, and if you don't either, well, then there is the seeds of communication sown, and on fertile ground!

Life is a muti-dimensional thing, I find, and within us all are many "planes of existence", and I look at it as a quest for "co-existence" with the world around me, as the "least-energy" path through life, and that is desirable, to me, as it is energy conservative!

Anger kills us, but first it cripples us, and so ....

This is about something called tranquillity!

Tranquillity is not attained by hiding from fear, or disappointment, but by accepting them as potenials in life, and then, not getting snared!

That is why we have long lifetimes, I think, so as to allow us to learn all of that first hand, so we may then rise above it, and become that which we can be, later on in life, when it counts!

It is said that a young person should do t'ai chi when young, so that when they get old, THEY CAN BE WHO THEY WANT TO BE AT THAT AGE, instead of something that the passage of time and hard miles produced instead .....

Lose anger!

It serves no purpose!

Use it as a fuel, instead, and rise yourself above your concerns!
Livyjr
QUOTE(TheRestofUs @ Jun 14 2005, 01:52 PM)
I am no longer the person I knew.

Each time that I do t'ai chi, it is simply "that time".

It is connected to no other time, and so, it is fresh, and it is the "moment", and I am in there, with the moment, and so, any other "person" that I might have been at some other time is simply irrelevant!

NO PAST!

No NEED for a past!

Just that moment, and me in there, with it!

This is what I was saying to jeffmoskin, above, when I talked about the best time to learn is when you no longer have a memory!

The "mind" and memory are not the same thing, and "memory" should not be allowed, by oneself, to control the mind, but guess what?

It does anyway!

So what do we do, then?

Simple!

Don't be captured by the memories, as pervasive as they might be!

In a lot of ways, the practice of t'ai chi for me has been a kind of "substitution" exercise, where instead of being angry at something, which generally is life, itself, over which we have absolutely no control whatsoever, I simply do t'ai chi, instead, and for that moment, I substitute "internal" for "external".

I would go outside, in the winter, for example, when it was quite cold, and your hands would freeze up fairly soon, and I would do a short t'ai chi set slowly, and I would finish it, even when it felt like knives cutting my hands with the cold, and even as I would experience that, I would not let it penetrate my calm, because the truth of the matter is that in the time that it takes to do a short t'ai chi set, you're not going to freeze to death, or get frost bite, you just think you will, instead, and so, there is a tug-of-war between the emotion mind, and the wisdom mind, and I would stack the deck in favor of the wisdom mind, and then, let it deal with the emotion mind, because you cannot crush the emotions to overcome them!

Crushing something is simply that, an act of violence!

You "overcome" your emotions by rising above them, and then, once there, you just don't want or need to go back to being emotionally dependent, on anything!

As to "love" for anything, I don't think that can be worked at, at all!

Rather, if one can let loose of "discriminating", i.e., categorizing, weighing, measuring, etc., then one arrives at what is left, in an internal world free of those things, and a lot of worthy things are in there to explore, and out of that exploration, well, it's hard to hate the universe when you find that it indeed can be benevolent, and not hating anything is perhaps where love does start!

And here I will not kid anyone!

If you want to gain in life, in terms of calmness and self-control, and patience, and perseverence, then YOU HAVE TO LOSE THEIR OPPOSITES, FIRST, and if you can't let go .........
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 14 2005, 05:19 PM)
If you want to gain in life, in terms of calmness and self-control, and patience, and perseverence, then YOU HAVE TO LOSE THEIR OPPOSITES, FIRST, and if you can't let go .........

"INVEST IN LOSS!"

"EAT 'BITTER'!"

If you were to go out and find all of the "masters" of t'ai chi, or the Chinese "system", and ask them for their advice, what you would hear invariably is that you should "invest in loss", and when people hear that, my observation is that their faces take on a kind of funny look, as that thought strikes home, because it seems that when people hear this phrase, somehow it conjures up this image of having to race home to renounce all of your family, and friends, and dog and cat, and sell everything you own, and then don saffron robes or something, and a begger's bowl, and you will then be happy!

Well, maybe .....

But, as I am a natural sceptic, myself, especially after having been in the jungle in Viet Nam, where a healthy dose of scepticism got you through the day ALIVE a lot better than a belief in some light waiting right around some corner did;, and as a non-believer in "INSTANT GRATIFICATION", as well, I have never thought the road to happiness is dependant on whether you wear saffron robes, or Gucchi loafers, or anything at all, because ALL OF THAT IS MERELY EXTERNAL, and so, is appearance, but not necessarily substance, and if you have ever been starving, the substance of bread, in your hand, is far, far preferable to the appearance of bread, like on a billboard, any day of the week, and twice on Sunday, as the old saying goes!

If I hear a "master" say "invest in loss", and so, I go home and renounce my family, well, then, where does that leave me, especially if I kind of liked them?

And what about the dog?

Or cat?

If I renounce them, what are they going to do, the day after?

Or does "investing in loss" mean that I must sever such thoughts and considerations from my own mind?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 15 2005, 06:56 AM)
Or does "investing in loss" mean that I must sever such thoughts and considerations from my own mind?

Or does it mean accepting life, as it is, right this moment, even if, and especially if, it is not what I WANTED IT TO BE?

And if I do that, resign myself to the fact that the world is a much bigger place than I can hold in my outstretched arms, no matter how long I might make them, or in my two hands cupped together, does that make me weak?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 15 2005, 07:40 AM)
Or does it mean accepting life, as it is, right this moment, even if, and especially if, it is not what I WANTED IT TO BE?

Bruce Sprinsteen has a song, "Glory Days", and I actually recommend that song as "medicine", quite a bit, and since I adhere to that philosophy of "heal thyself", it would follow that I apply Bruce Springsteen's advice to myself, first, hopefully, 24/7, before recommending it in here to the candid world as a universal cure for a whole lot of ailments, starting with "oh, woe is me ...."

"Oh, Livyjr, I wish I could move like that, so freely, but you know, I got a business to run and ......!"

Okay!

That's it!

That's the end of the conversation!

EVERYBODY IS BUSY IN LIFE!

THAT IS WHAT LIFE IS ALL ABOUT!

SO?

When, then do you go yin?

Ever?

Should you, even?

And, is it harmful or illegal, to do so, go "yin", that is?

And should you seek a doctor's approval for doing so?

All valid questions!

All got to be asked!

By you, of yourself, of course, as it certainly is no business of mine why any other person regulates their own life as they do!

Of course, if someone asks me about my "way", well, maybe .........
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 15 2005, 01:14 PM)
Of course, if someone asks me about my "way", well, maybe .........

And how can you judge someone's "way"?

By words alone?

My way works for me, because it works for me, and that is that!

BUT .....

My way is also "universal", in that what I am "doing", or perhaps, "playing at", comes directly to me from nature, herself, 24/7!

If no one believes that, it makes no difference to either myself or nature, and so, the belief of others is not required for me to know my own truth, here, which is that if one lives a certain "way" of life, a simple way, then one can get old in a certain fashion!

Now, that is not much of an accomplishment, I know, in a day and age when people can routinely send robots to Mars to look for signs of prior human habitation, but for me, down here on my human level, it has been quite sustaining, because now that I am older, I am actually stronger in many essential ways than when I was young, and so, I can face my days much better now than then, even though I am now 30 years older than when I started on this one trail that has led me to here, to date!

Elsewise, this stuff that I am talking about would be absolutely worthless!

Intellectual rubbish!

If it did not nourish you, in your older days, that is, and there is where, for the moment, I will pause in my dissertation, if that indeed is what it is!!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 15 2005, 01:24 PM)
Intellectual rubbish!

If it did not nourish you, in your older days, that is ......

"Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened."

"Happiness never decreases by being shared."
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 15 2005, 04:17 PM)
"Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened."

"Happiness never decreases by being shared."

And speaking of thousands of candles being lit from one, for those who are interested in "getting a view" of the world of t'ai chi, especially that "world" with respect to older folks, in August of this year, in South Windsor, Connecticut, which is near to Hartford, I think, there is going to be a T'ai Chi national championship tournament, and if you are interested in seeing "high quality" t'ai chi being performed by a large variety of people, to include some up into their eighties, then this would be a good place to go and do that, if you are in that area at that time, which is August 6-7 of this year.

For more information on this tournament, and for an opportunity to see some pictures from the last national tournament in Connecticut, which was 2003, as I recall, go to http://www.malees-tai-chi-kung-fu.com and click on the tournament icon that you will find there.

T'ai chi is an activity that has great benefits for older folks anywhere in the world, and at this tournament the last time I was there, there was a little bit of an old lady, up in her eighties, who was just superb to watch, as she went through the motions of her various forms, including a sword form, with the carefree motions of a youth!

Very inspiring to see, indeed, and it is stark proof that one can remain vital far into one's advanced years, if one so chooses, and is then diligent about making it be so!

And these are real people, not paid actors, or simulators!

You can watch these people, and then afterwards, talk to them, about their own thoughts, and insights, on the subject, and who knows, you might be quite surprised at some of the physical adversities that some of these people have overcome in their own lives, through the development of their mental power, despite the adversities that they faced, at any given time!

"IF THE TIGER IS COMING TO EAT ME, TELL HIM TO BRING A LUNCH, FOR HE IS GOING TO NEED IT!"

Without seeing t'ai chi, it is very hard to understand what it is all about, since it involves adopting a positive attitude about life, and then actually living that positive attitude in a seamless fashion, 24/7, and when you watch some of the older folks at a national tournament like this one, you will know just what I am trying to say, in here, in this thread!

So when you are around people actually doing t'ai chi, you are calmed, simply by being in proximity to them, if they themselves are calm inside, and at a national tournament like this one, that is where you will find some of those people, and that alone, to me, anyway, is worth the experience and trouble of going!

Will I be there?

Hopefully, with the grace of God on my side, I will be, for it is a ways to go, but ....
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 15 2005, 05:31 PM)
And speaking of thousands of candles being lit from one, for those who are interested in "getting a view" of the world of t'ai chi, especially that "world" with respect to older folks, in August of this year, in South Windsor, Connecticut, which is near to Hartford, I think, there is going to be a T'ai Chi national championship tournament, and if you are interested in seeing "high quality" t'ai chi being performed by a large variety of people, to include some up into their eighties, then this would be a good place to go and do that, if you are in that area at that time, which is August 6-7 of this year.

For more information on this tournament, and for an opportunity to see some pictures from the last national tournament in Connecticut, which was 2003, as I recall, go to http://www.malees-tai-chi-kung-fu.com and click on the tournament icon that you will find there.

Competition?

T'ai chi?

What's this, then, Livyjr?

Competition in t'ai chi?

Isn't that counter-productive?

Yes!

Or No!

Okay, well, maybe!

But .....

Maybe not!

"Oh, you're so exasperating!"

"I'm not going to talk to you any more, 'cause you never give a straight answer!"

Okay!

SO?

What is the point?

And who is going to know?

Me?

For you, I'm going to have "THE ANSWER"!

How'd that come about then?

How come I was given the ANSWER for you?

Why weren't you given it, yourself?

Couldn't handle it?

Well, if that is the case, why would you believe me, if you wouldn't believe "god", or the "universe", or where ever answers really do come from?

And there is a "hitch", isn't it?

How on earth do we ever know what is "RIGHT", for us, or what is the "truth"?

My answer is to be calm, and wait and see!

And this is taking us somewhere, so I ask you to be patient!

And in the end, so does t'ai chi!

And so .....
Livyjr
Why would I go to a t'ai chi competition?

Well, to see whatever there was to see there, of course, that would be a part of it, and to observe people, in that setting!

At a tournament like this, a national tournament with a well-respected host like Malee Khow, the judges will themselves be very experienced, and so, any feedback that one would get from one of them, at least to me, is invaluable!

I am a disabled veteran who lives out in the country!

There is no t'ai chi near to me, in my community, of this caliber, and so, I would travel this distance, just to see these people, there, in actual life!

One of these people, Mr. Calvin Chin, told me about my wrists at one of these tournaments, and so, after that, I did what he had said I must do, and it has made all the difference in the world in how I move now, as opposed to then, and while likely I might have made this discovery myself, in time, with Master Chin's direct observation, my path to that point was much quicker, and as I practice t'ai chi to keep myself in a fit enough state of health as an older person to allow me to continue to fight the debilitating effects of metal fragments lodged in my neck from Viet Nam, this advice is life-sustaining, and therefore, it is priceless!

These judges come from all over the United States to Connecticut, and so, if I go to that one place, I can see them, whereas, I could never make it to the places they are, like Houston, Texas, as it is just outside of my "means", and that is that!
Livyjr
And if you go to a t'ai chi tournament to actually "compete", well, that is a direct experience of yourself, BY YOURSELF, that to me, is quite valuable to have, since I don't generally do t'ai chi in a public place, myself, and so have little or no real "experience" of that experience from which to gain feedback about myself in stressful situations!

Calm, in the midst of the storm!

How do you know you have it, if you only go out when the sun is shining?

For me, a t'ai chi tournament is just such a stressful place, and so, if the t'ai chi itself is going to be of any value to me in real life, I should be able to go to the t'ai chi tournament, which is an "unaccustomed environment" for me, and in my mind, have it be like my patch of woods where I do practice, because it is so calm and peaceful there.

If the calm is real, I should never be without it!

And so, I find out .....
Livyjr
Another reason to go, even if as an observer, especially if you are a "beginner" thinking about t'ai chi, but want some further "information", to a t'ai chi tournament such as this one coming up in August in Connecticut, is that under one roof, in one place, you will be able to see ALL styles of t'ai chi performed by people of varying skill levels, and ages, and that is important, because not all t'ai chi styles are the same, and you may not like one, but could end up loving another, and if you have seen the various styles, that decision is easier to make.

Traditionally, in China, someone would have had access to a teacher in a place, and they would have followed a "system" that would have been at first intended to strengthen them, and give them flexibility, and then, at some point, when basics were learned, the person would have progressed along, further into that "style", under the guidance of that teacher.

Here, in America, with our commercial mentality, t'ai chi has become a "product", and so, it is "marketed" as a kind of one-size-fits-all thing, when such could not be further from the truth, in my estimation, anyway, having learned many different styles myself, in the course of my learning of this art.

So, a person reaches a certain age, and then, they realize that the aging process is coming on them pretty strong, and they hear about a t'ai chi school in the area, and they go there, and jump right into what everybody else is doing, and the next thing you know, they have hurt their knees, generally, and then they are worse off than before!

If you were flexible when you were twenty, and now you are forty, say, and you are no longer flexible, and you are concerned about it, YOU MUST KEEP IN MIND that you took twenty years to lose your flexibility, so, how fast will you try and reverse that process?

Five minutes?

One hour?

One week?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 15 2005, 05:31 PM)
For more information on this tournament, and for an opportunity to see some pictures from the last national tournament in Connecticut, which was 2003, as I recall, go to http://www.malees-tai-chi-kung-fu.com and click on the tournament icon that you will find there.

And I was just over on Malee's website, and I noticed this following, and assuming that people just coming into the world of t'ai chi likely would not yet know of this gentleman Li Deyin, whose name I have likely misspelled above here, I would like to post this information, and I would heartily encourage anyone interested in t'ai chi to attend this man's seminars, as it is well worth the time, in my own experience of this gentleman, who is at the same time, very strong, and yet, very humble, and down to earth, and he, to me, anyway, is one of the best teachers that I have encountered, to date, for the art of t'ai chi.

And he is an old man!

SO!

To see him in person, to see him move, to watch him, as he expresses the forms, is to see a living example of how one person's belief system, based on t'ai chi, aided and assisted him in getting old, with quite a bit of grace and dignity, actually, which certainly beats a lot of other alternatives, at least as far as I am concerned:

Professor Li Deyin Workshops

Professor Li Deyin, designated in 1993 as one of the "Greatest Living Martial Arts Treasures of China", will be conducting two workshops at Malee's School of Tai Chi and Kung Fu on Monday, June 13, and Tuesday, June 14.

Professor Li Deyin of Beijing, China will teach workshops on 24 Form Tai Chi and 48 Form Tai Chi.

Professor Li visited our school in 2001 and people still talk about the wonderful workshops he gave.

24 Form Yang Style Tai Chi. Monday, June 13, 6:00 - 9:00 pm.

Few masters are better qualified to present this workshop as it was his uncle, Li Tian Ji, who, as an executive member of the Chinese National Athletic Association, compiled the 24-posture form which is perhaps the most universally recognized and practiced form of Tai Chi today.

Master Li Deyin will dissect several of the most common tai chi postures and teach the correct positions of the whole body (including where the eyes look and the tongue rests, and breathing in each movement) as they apply to the principles of tai chi movements.

He will demonstrate and instruct on the martial applications of the moves in 24 Form and will also discuss this form as it was intended to be performed.

48 Form Tai Chi. Tuesday, June 14, 5:30 - 8:30 pm.

In this seminar, Professor Li will introduce the five major styles of Tai Chi (Chen, Yang, Sun, Wú, and Wu), four of which can be found in 48 Form Tai Chi, explaining their similarities and differences and how they have been incorporated into the 48 Form.

He will also help students improve their execution of the form and demonstrate numerous applications from the form.

Seminar Fees:
24 Form Tai Chi, Monday, June 13: $65
48 Form Tai Chi, Tuesday, June 14: $65
Both Workshops: $120

Late Fee after June 10th: $10
USA National Tai Chi Chuan Federation
Member discount: $5
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 17 2005, 02:48 PM)
48 Form Tai Chi. Tuesday, June 14, 5:30 - 8:30 pm.

In this seminar, Professor Li will introduce the five major styles of Tai Chi (Chen, Yang, Sun, Wú, and Wu), four of which can be found in 48 Form Tai Chi, explaining their similarities and differences and how they have been incorporated into the 48 Form.

He will also help students improve their execution of the form and demonstrate numerous applications from the form.

Trying to catalogue all the possible t'ai chi sequences, and chi gong sequences is like cataloging all the possible colors that could result from combinations of colors in a rainbow!

In the end, it would be an immensity .....

And so, I don't try, mainly because it has already been done, by others, over a timespan of hundreds, if not more, years, and so .....

What I do instead, then, is to sift through this catalogued knowledge, for what works for me, and I am continually gaining forms, and many things that I have done in the past, well, I have replaced them with other routines that I like better, and a point of this is that you should not be afraid to experiment, and when you see something that appeals to you more, like doing 48-form t'ai chi, instead of 24-form, then you should not be afraid to change, sometimes at the drop of a hat, if necessary to your own continued progress through your own personal life, for there truly is no one size that does fit all in t'ai chi, no more than there is in life, in general, and you should never lose sight of that, nor let yourself be told by someone that there is!

This 24-form t'ai chi above is probably the first "formal set" that I applied myself to, back in 1996, when I found my present teacher, and I still do the 24-form to this day, and I would recommend it to anyone as a starting point in this t'ai chi journey, although now, I actually have a couple of other forms that I do more often, when on my own, just because they are more challenging, and enjoyable, which is always good for the mind, at any age!

If you learn the 24-form, it is an achievement, and you should look upon it as that, without doubt, especially if you are an older person, but even a young person can find quite a bit of benefit in the 24-form, which is a condensed version of the Yang-style long set, which is 108-moves long.

The 24-form is the essence of the Yang-style form, condensed down to four sections of six moves each, and depending upon your speed, it takes about 5 minutes on up, to complete the 24 separate moves, depending on your speed!

So, in less than ten minutes, you can get a good, fairly complete total body workout, and you can do this form anywhere, as it does not take much space, and it is graceful, and so, teaches you grace!

And you can do the sub-sections as "sets", if you do not know all 24 forms!

And that is again, to me, part of the beauty of the t'ai chi systems - it is like a bunch of boxes of beads that you can draw from, and by stringing these beads together, as on a string to make a necklace, well, you can make endless combinations, your own self, and as a result, the art is always fresh, and never stale, as you will never do t'ai chi twice the same way, even if you do the same set of forms every day, for a hundred years, just the same way that the water flowing by you in the same stream every day is never the same water!

That is because as you do the forms, you are constantly growing stronger, through applying yourself to the proper body movements through the forms, and so, each day, each week, you are finding a new "you" in yourself, as you go through the same routine, one more time, just because ......

If after learning the 24-form, which can be done in weeks, or less, especially if you have Professor Li's videotape, you wish to expand your horizons, as I always wish to be doing, then start learning the 48-form while you are practicing 24!

That's what I did, anyway, and as you learn a more advanced sequence, it always comes back in surprising ways to aid you in your practice of the simpler form, which is something that I really like about t'ai chi!

Each time is simply that time, and as you grow into your life, with t'ai chi as an aid to gaining patience, and perseverence and calmness heading towards serenity, why, new vistas are opening up, all the time, and so .....
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 17 2005, 04:39 PM)
If you learn the 24-form, it is an achievement, and you should look upon it as that, without doubt, especially if you are an older person, but even a young person can find quite a bit of benefit in the 24-form, which is a condensed version of the Yang-style long set, which is 108-moves long.

Why do I say that learning something that is fairly simple is an accomplishment?

Simply because you have learned something new, is why!

Learning equates with growing, and growing is associated with life.

Learning keeps the mind alive!

Learning can be a source of hope, and inspiration, especially when what you are overcoming is your own self, in the process.

And hope and inspiration are not bad things to have around, at all, as they really take up very little space, and they are not heavy, and ........
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 18 2005, 05:40 AM)
And hope and inspiration are not bad things to have around, at all, as they really take up very little space, and they are not heavy, and ........

"So, okay, Livyjr!"

"Let's say I learn this 24-form thing here in 6 weeks?"

"Then what do I do with it?"

"What possible good can something be that only takes 6 weeks to learn?"

I don't know!

Hhhhmmmm.

SO?

How long did it take to learn to walk?

To talk?

To eat?

Can't you do that when you're a newborn, eat, that is?

SO?

That takes no time at all to learn then, and certainly, a lot less than t'ai chi does, SO ......

What possible good can that be, either?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 11 2005, 05:04 PM)
And the five "regulatings"!

That is where we will start, for that is where the "power" flows from, and the "five regulatings" are the key to "unlocking" that power, which is considerable, indeed.

As for me, that right above here is what I do with the 24-form t'ai chi chaun, to be truthful, and I am trying to do that 24/7, so as to simply be it, instead!

REGULATE WITHOUT REGULATING!

Be natural!

Tiger doesn't train to be a tiger, no more than a dragon practices to be a dragon, so what then is it with us?

Why is natural so hard to be?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 18 2005, 02:47 PM)
Be natural!

Tiger doesn't train to be a tiger, no more than a dragon practices to be a dragon, so what then is it with us?

Why is natural so hard to be?

REGULATE THE BODY!

REGULATE THE BREATH!

REGULATE THE MIND!

Hard to do?

Or easy?

And how can you know how?
TheRestofUs
Lots' of good information Livyjr. I stopped sulking so I can speak now. I used to be into Martial Arts (Tae Kwondo, Kung Fu, T'ai Chi Chuan, Akido) , but as I've aged (55) I'm interested in the renewal of my spirit and body, and this is something I may investigate further.

Thanks, I'll keep reading.
Livyjr
QUOTE(TheRestofUs @ Jun 18 2005, 04:49 PM)
Lots' of good information Livyjr.

I stopped sulking so I can speak now.

I used to be into Martial Arts (Tae Kwondo, Kung Fu, T'ai Chi Chuan, Akido) , but as I've aged (55) I'm interested in the renewal of my spirit and body, and this is something I may investigate further.

Thanks, I'll keep reading.

Wow, excellent!

Stopping the sulking, I mean!

Not good for the heart, at all!

And why waste the only you that you really have, when it is nice to have you around, instead?

Stop the yang!

Be yin!

At least once a day, anyway!

And I am 59, myself, and yes, renewal of body, mind and spirit ......
Livyjr
As a Viet Nam combat veteran, I chuckle to myself when I hear "pundits" and "wise men" describe t'ai chi as the martial art where you bore your opponent to death!

"Yes, I bet it is", is my answer!

"Of course, you must be right!"

THE FIGHT OF NO FIGHT!

That is where I am heading, and if that is boring?

Oh, well ..........
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 19 2005, 05:50 AM)
THE FIGHT OF NO FIGHT!

That is where I am heading, and if that is boring?

Oh, well ..........

Those who follow Tao (the path of life) speak of three treasures in the body: essence, breath, and spirit!

Essence is the biochemical aspect of your body, nurtured by the food you eat, and regulated by the QUALITY of your hormones.

Therefore, all your food should be packed and glowing with energy.

Eat food as close to its source as possible.

Pray before you eat, for everything that you take, whether plant or animal, is living.

You must consume to survive, but when you die, acknowledge that you will become food for others.

To build the breath, work and exercise diligently.

Build stamina, and discipline yourself!

You will gain great flexibility combined with hardened flesh, AND YOU WILL BE GRACEFUL.

Immunity to minor physical traumas as well as many kinds of illness will be yours.

The ultimate training of the spirit begins with the question of death.

The sages see beyond dying.

Though they must die, they also know that nothing is lost, because no one owns body or mind, anyway.

Those who follow Tao (the path of life) safeguard themselves and live their spirituality with a realistic appreciation of death.

The establishment of essence, breath, and spirit is like wearing armor!

The travails of the world mean nothing!


- Deng, Ming-Dao
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 19 2005, 06:45 AM)
To build the breath, work and exercise diligently.

But what does "diligently" really mean?

Think on it for a moment .....

Is it, perhaps, an exercise of the "will"?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 19 2005, 11:54 AM)
Is it, perhaps, an exercise of the "will"?

The "will"?

What's the "will"?

"You mean will-power, Livyjr?"

"Oh, I don't think I have any of that!"

Okay!

At least that is an honest assessment, and well, maybe that's where we have to start .......
shawneedaughter
our walk on this Earth is always enriched with our Connection with the other




QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 12 2005, 06:01 AM)
And actually, I am just average, much like the tortoise in that story of the race between the rabbit and the tortoise, in that I just keep on plodding along here in life, and that is what keeps me involved with t'ai chi, and chi gong, which is the power of the state of mind that they are able to help one induce in oneself, because in the end, the only one responsible for your "attitude", or "outlook", is yourself!

You got to walk that lonesome valley, you got to walk it by yourself, ain't nobody else can walk it for you ........

And when you set out to do that, walk that valley, well, you find out, first of all that it is not lonely ......

SO?

What am I saying here?

It's about self-fulfilling prophecy - everything that you believe you cannot do will in the end be true, if the power of your belief, or is it deception, is powerful enough to convince you that you are right!

As for me, I believe that anything one human being can do, can be achieved, potentially, by anyone else, and so, that thought sustains me as I continue on this journey through life down here on this earth of ours.

Mental attitude!

The third "regulating".

And maybe, in the end, the most important of all!

The mind!

That is where it must start!
*
shawneedaughter
watching the practice of t'ai chi in Chicago by the river smile.gif


one must listen to hear
Livyjr
QUOTE(shawneedaughter @ Jun 19 2005, 02:41 PM)
.... one must listen to hear ....

Ah, shawneedaughter, you have "seen"!

And "listening" is indeed the "key", although hard to do, as all must first be silent inside!

Let loose to gain!

And so .....
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 19 2005, 02:52 PM)
And "listening" is indeed the "key", although hard to do, as all must first be silent inside!

Let loose to gain!

And so .....

Cape Cod!

Scrub oaks!

A path through the woods!

I walk!

Suddenly, an "absence" on my right side causes me to freeze!

There, on a hummock of grass, next to me, is a fox, laying in the sun, sleeping, his head on his crossed front paws!

When I relaxed, he felt my presence and came immediately awake, and there I was!

Oh, well ....

San Francisco!

A twisty, turny little street down a steep hillside!

I walk!

Suddenly, an "absence" on my left side!

I freeze!

There!

Incredible!

An old man doing t'ai chi, and a whole city was gone, just like that!

NO NOISE!

Incredible!

And if you could not perceive the absence of noise and confusion inside of this circle around this old man, you would not even have known he was there!
shawneedaughter
-5 degree midnight....christmas tree, still with tinsel, discarded at the curb....many years ago....I can still hear that night....and feel the beauty of that tree smile.gif

what was tossed as rubbish was, to me, the intensity of beauty

still brings warmth
Livyjr
QUOTE(shawneedaughter @ Jun 19 2005, 04:35 PM)
-5 degree midnight....christmas tree, still with tinsel, discarded at the curb....many years ago....I can still hear that night....and feel the beauty of that tree  smile.gif

what was tossed as rubbish was, to me, the intensity of beauty

still brings warmth

Insight!

Serendipity!

Seeing in the trash that everyone else walks by, the gold that is there!

And they call it luck!
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 19 2005, 04:52 PM)
Serendipity!

Seeing in the trash that everyone else walks by, the gold that is there!

And they call it luck!

Had I not been made "less" by the exploding warhead of an RPG-7 rocket grenade in March of 1969, would I have had an incentive to "better" myself through the practice of t'ai chi?

If I were "healthy", without "defect", would I have had the desire for good health that led me to t'ai chi?

Had I never been to war, would peace be of any value to me, whatsoever?

Serendipity!

We are surrounded by gold on all sides, and yet, we reject it it as worthless, because ......
Livyjr
SO!

Back to t'ai chi, then!

It is hard to tell where t'ai chi first came from, and there are a lot of what might be myths about that, and as with all things that come down to us from antiquity, myths cause confusion, and confusion causes doubt .....

"Oh, am I learning the REAL DEAL here, or not?"

And in all truth and honesty, who is going to tell you, especially since t'ai chi is what I will call "knowledge based", which means that "awareness" itself is a great factor in how much one can know of this "system" at any given time in one's own life!

And this brings us back to "beginner's mind", which is really a "state of being", rather than a "something", in and of itself!

Take the 24-form that I mentioned above, for example.

If I first learned that form, say, nine years ago, from beginning to end, then what happens when I do that form today?

After all, I am now nine years older myself, and what does that actually mean, to me, or to you who are reading and considering these words?

IF there is a "peak", say, am I past that "peak" then, if the peak is what, eighteen, or twenty-one, and I am now 59?

I have the t'ai chi of a 59 year old, and that is that?

And the t'ai chi of a 59 year old would, of necessity, have to be quite a bit less than the t'ai chi of a 49 year old, or a 39 year old?

Any bets?

Any guesses?

Which is the stronger?

The mind?

Or the body?

Amd what does really age?

And how?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jun 20 2005, 06:29 AM)
Which is the stronger?

The mind?

Or the body?

Amd what does really age?

And how?

When you raise your right hand, what "brain" have you just used?

And how about the left?

Same "brain", or a different one?

And if so, can you then "exercise" the "brain" by moving your hands?

Can you "listen" with your hands?

And if so, why bother to have "ears"?
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