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mommadona
The New York Times
June 28, 2005
The Speech the President Should Give
By JOHN F. KERRY

Boston
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/opinion/...agewanted=print
TONIGHT President Bush will discuss the situation in Iraq. It's long past time to get it right in Iraq. The Bush administration is courting disaster with its current course - a course with no realistic strategy for reducing the risks to our soldiers and increasing the odds for success.

The reality is that the Bush administration's choices have made Iraq into what it wasn't before the war - a breeding ground for jihadists. Today there are 16,000 to 20,000 jihadists and the number is growing. The administration has put itself - and, tragically, our troops, who pay the price every day - in a box of its own making. Getting out of this box won't be easy, but we owe it to our soldiers to make our best effort.

Our mission in Iraq is harder because the administration ignored the advice of others, went in largely alone, underestimated the likelihood and power of the insurgency, sent in too few troops to secure the country, destroyed the Iraqi army through de-Baathification, failed to secure ammunition dumps, refused to recognize the urgency of training Iraqi security forces and did no postwar planning. A little humility would go a long way - coupled with a strategy to succeed.

So what should the president say tonight? The first thing he should do is tell the truth to the American people. Happy talk about the insurgency being in "the last throes" leads to frustrated expectations at home. It also encourages reluctant, sidelined nations that know better to turn their backs on their common interest in keeping Iraq from becoming a failed state.

The president must also announce immediately that the United States will not have a permanent military presence in Iraq. Erasing suspicions that the occupation is indefinite is critical to eroding support for the insurgency.


He should also say that the United States will insist that the Iraqis establish a truly inclusive political process and meet the deadlines for finishing the Constitution and holding elections in December. We're doing our part: our huge military presence stands between the Iraqi people and chaos, and our special forces protect Iraqi leaders. The Iraqis must now do theirs.

He also needs to put the training of Iraqi troops on a true six-month wartime footing and ensure that the Iraqi government has the budget needed to deploy them. The administration and the Iraqi government must stop using the requirement that troops be trained in-country as an excuse for refusing offers made by Egypt, Jordan, France and Germany to do more.

The administration must immediately draw up a detailed plan with clear milestones and deadlines for the transfer of military and police responsibilities to Iraqis after the December elections. The plan should be shared with Congress. The guideposts should take into account political and security needs and objectives and be linked to specific tasks and accomplishments. If Iraqis adopt a constitution and hold elections as planned, support for the insurgency should fall and Iraqi security forces should be able to take on more responsibility. It will also set the stage for American forces to begin to come home.

Iraq, of course, badly needs a unified national army, but until it has one - something that our generals now say could take two more years - it should make use of its tribal, religious and ethnic militias like the Kurdish pesh merga and the Shiite Badr Brigade to provide protection and help with reconstruction. Instead of single-mindedly focusing on training a national army, the administration should prod the Iraqi government to fill the current security gap by integrating these militias into a National Guard-type force that can provide security in their own areas.

The administration must work with the Iraqi government to establish a multinational force to help protect its borders. Such a force, if sanctioned by the United Nations Security Council, could attract participation by Iraq's neighbors and countries like India.

The deployment of capable security forces is critical, but it alone will not end the insurgency, as the administration would have us believe. Hamstrung by its earlier lack of planning and overly optimistic predictions for rebuilding Iraq, the administration has failed to devote equal attention to working with the Iraqi government on the economic and political fronts. Consequently, reconstruction is lagging even in the relatively secure Shiite south and Kurdish north. If Iraqis, particularly Sunnis who fear being disenfranchised, see electricity flowing, jobs being created, roads and sewers being rebuilt and a democratic government being formed, the allure of the insurgency will decrease.

Iraq's Sunni neighbors, who complain they are left out, could do more to help. Even short-term improvements, like providing electricity and supplying diesel fuel - an offer that the Saudis have made but have yet to fulfill - will go a long way. But we need to give these nations a strategic plan for regional security, acknowledging their fears of an Iran-dominated crescent and their concerns about our fitful mediation between Israel and the Palestinians in return for their help in rebuilding Iraq, protecting its borders, and bringing its Sunnis into the political process.

The next months are critical to Iraq's future and our security. If Mr. Bush fails to take these steps, we will stumble along, our troops at greater risk, casualties rising, costs rising, the patience of the American people wearing thin, and the specter of quagmire staring us in the face. Our troops deserve better: they deserve leadership equal to their sacrifice.

John F. Kerry is a Democratic senator from Massachusetts.

* Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company
MarionMansfield
Wow
mommadona
angel.gif police.gif hockey.gif police.gif angel.gif
Indianhead
God, that he were our president.

The type of man I could follow
into hell for a heavenly cause.

Y'all know how rare this man is?
Yeah, y'all probably do. If the rest did...
I might recognize America...my country.

We (he) will not stop, not capitulate...
because we love the colors, the promise.
He bled for the colors...that counts for something.

Beamer
Well, he's got a plan.
rox63
I'm very proud of my Senator. wub.gif I wish he were the one in charge, making the decisions.
USA#1
Now Let's See What Bush has to say ... if it's the old line He'll be done in by America. I don't think he knows any other tune than, We winning the war, everything's gonna be alright, no, no we don't want any help, we can do it all by ourselves - This is our Coup and we'll do it MYYYYYYYYYYYYY WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Let's see some fricking spine and some admittace of a mistake or two. cool.gif
Arneoker
QUOTE(USA#1 @ Jun 28 2005, 09:22 AM)
I don't think he knows any other tune than, We winning the war, everything's gonna be alright, no, no we don't want any help, we cqan do it all by ourselfves - This is our Coup and we'll do it MYYYYYYYYYYYYY WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
*

I think they call it "message discipline."

I would call it, "the same old, same old."
wicheewoman
QUOTE(MarionMansfield @ Jun 27 2005, 11:48 PM)
Wow
*


I'll say! clap.gif ok.gif rolleyes.gif
wicheewoman
They should have Kerry give the Democratic rebuttal after the speech tonight idea.gif
Beamer
rla, Dylan, picadilly and others: I would like to hear your feedback on Kerry's plan.
rla
Even if Bush could and would follow Kerry's suggestions to the letter, I don't think it would change the outcome. It still agrees with the assumption that Bush can
micromanage Iraq from Washington. To me, it's sad tat Kerry missed his last opportunity to admit his error in giving Bush authority to start the war, appoligize to the American people, and call for a speeded up withdrawal.
Arneoker
QUOTE(rla @ Jun 28 2005, 11:21 AM)
Even if Bush could and would follow Kerry's suggestions to the letter, I don't think it would change the outcome. It still agrees with the assumption that Bush can
micromanage Iraq from Washington. To me, it's sad tat Kerry missed his last opportunity to admit his error in giving Bush authority to start the war, appoligize to the American people, and call for a speeded up withdrawal.
*

Perhaps Kerry really believes what he said. He may be wrong, although personally I think he is right.

In that context I don't see a point in conceding any error to Bush. Unless the "error" is clearly an error, no Democrat should concede anything right now and give an advantage to the Republicans.

This is the time to be partisan to the hilt. We can discuss anything here, but I would advise Democratic leaders against conceding anything, unless it's absolutely necessary to maintain one's integrity. (Durbin made a mistake in apologizing, I've come to that opinion.)
ConcernedObserver
QUOTE(USA#1 @ Jun 28 2005, 08:52 AM)
Let's see some fricking spine and some admittace of a mistake or two.  cool.gif
*



You are asking for the impossible !

What spine ?

Stubborn intransigence is no indicator of backbone. The man has a steel rod up his a**.. placed there by Cheney and his NEO CON buddies when they realized his hunger for power made him an excellent candidate as a figurehead.. not too bright ... no scruples or real principles whatsoever, and good only for politicking, but that rod has no function whatsoever other than to help him strut like a turkey every chance he gets.

The evidence is plentiful that he has no guts.. he hides from danger- a proven fact throughout his lifetime -or he surrounds himself with sycophants at every public event they stage.. God forbid he ever really deal with the real citizenry face to face.

Sorry . but your President is a disaster as a man and as a President. As a Leader of the Free World he is a joke, albeit a disastrous one.
wundermaus
there would be nothing left but a pink stain on the pavement...
TheRestofUs
It is a good speech! I wish he had fleshed out the economic mention. I believe that giving the rebuilding jobs to Iraqis in massive numbers, and consequently cutting Halliburton, Bechtel, and most foriegn contractors out of the gravy train (while prosecuting those who profiteered) would be a major issue for success.
Arneoker
QUOTE(ConcernedObserver @ Jun 28 2005, 11:35 AM)
You are asking for the impossible !

What spine ?

Stubborn intransience is no indicator of backbone. The man has a steel rod up his a**.. placed there by Cheney and his NEO CON buddies when they realized his hunger for power made him an excellent candidate as a figurehead.. not too bright ... no scruples or real principles whatsoever, and good only for politicking,  but that rod has no function whatsoever other than to help him strut like a turkey every chance he gets.

The evidence is plentiful that he has no guts.. he hides from danger- a proven fact throughout his lifetime -or he surrounds himself with sycophants at every public event they stage.. God forbid he ever really deal with the real citizenry face to face.

Sorry . but your President is a disaster as a man and as a President.  As a Leader of the Free World he is a joke, albeit a disastrous one.
*

This proud American says that you and the citizens of your country should tell it as you see it!
ConcernedObserver
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jun 28 2005, 11:12 AM)
This proud American says that you and the citizens of your country should tell it as you see it!
*



It may surprise you to know that I detest believing as I do. Throughout my life I have considered the US Presidents deserving of respect if not as individuals certainly because of the office they held. Knowing this is no longer true is not an easy conclusion to have reached.

Even Nixon had my respect for his efforts in many regards and I can't think of one positive point with the present office holder.

And stay proud my friend .. this too shall pass. I sincerely believe the American people are beginning to wake up. The Little Emperor will find they are much more principled than he has assumed.
FormerCIA
I bet Karl and the 'boys' are doing some editing about now.
Beamer
QUOTE(FormerCIA @ Jun 28 2005, 07:48 AM)
I bet Karl and the 'boys' are doing some editing about now.
*



What are you saying, that they'll steal some of Kerry's stuff?
Arneoker
QUOTE(ConcernedObserver @ Jun 28 2005, 11:51 AM)
And stay proud my friend .. this too shall pass. I sincerely believe the American people are beginning to wake up. The Little Emperor will find they are much more principled than he has assumed.
*

IMO you are an example of the best kind of friend of the U.S.! Friends don't refrain from criticizing, they are conscientious about how they criticize, doing the best to make sure that it is helpful.
tazvil04
QUOTE(MarionMansfield @ Jun 27 2005, 10:48 PM)
Wow
*


Why didn't we hear that during the campaign?

I mean I know he said some of that but like you say -- wow...all together it sounds great..
ConcernedObserver
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Jun 28 2005, 12:57 PM)
Why didn't we hear that during the campaign?

I mean I know he said some of that but like you say -- wow...all together it sounds great..
*



Sadly he did say ALL of that and more. All too often it didn't get coverage except for sound bites and most never bothered to put it all together for themselves.

And yes, WOW is the right word.

He would have made a superb President and Leader of the Free World. And we are all the poorer for the electorate's failure to discern that.

Too many were more concerned with the fact that he didn't fit the 'Good Old Boy' mode to take the time to see the substance of the man.
tazvil04
QUOTE(ConcernedObserver @ Jun 28 2005, 11:06 AM)
Sadly he did say ALL of that and more. All too often it didn't get coverage  except for sound bites and most never bothered to put it all together for themselves.

And yes, WOW is the right word.

He would have made a superb President and Leader of the Free World. And we are all the poorer for the electorate's failure to discern that.

Too many were more concerned with the fact that he didn't fit the 'Good Old Boy' mode to take the time to see the substance of the man.
*


I do not believe and I am proud to say that I do not think there has ever been a Democratic candidate for president that would not have done a good job --- in fact in most instances better than the person elected in their stead where they were defeated--- and that goes for Mondale and McGovern.

The problem I have with Republicans is thoughtfulness.

I do not see it.
progressivephoenix
An American president must do two things to win
1) Speak in soundbites
2) sound upbeat

Thought these are silly requirements for top office, requirements they are. Kerry will never be president. This speech has a good plan but a pessimistic tone. He is saying, "if we don't do this, we will fail." Americans hate that. They want "If we do this, we will win." Silly, I know. But it's been like this forever. Not just Americans either. Look at Winston Churchill:


"We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools and we will finish the job."

"This will be England's finest hour."


QUOTE(ConcernedObserver @ Jun 28 2005, 09:06 AM)
Sadly he did say ALL of that and more. All too often it didn't get coverage  except for sound bites and most never bothered to put it all together for themselves.

And yes, WOW is the right word.

He would have made a superb President and Leader of the Free World. And we are all the poorer for the electorate's failure to discern that.

Too many were more concerned with the fact that he didn't fit the 'Good Old Boy' mode to take the time to see the substance of the man.
*
tazvil04
QUOTE(progressivephoenix @ Jun 28 2005, 12:37 PM)
An American president must do two things to win
1) Speak in soundbites
2) sound upbeat

Thought these are silly requirements for top office, requirements they are. Kerry will never be president. This speech has a good plan but a pessimistic tone. He is saying, "if we don't do this, we will fail."  Americans hate that. They want "If we do this, we will win."  Silly, I know. But it's been like this forever.  Not just Americans either.  Look at Winston Churchill:
"We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools and we will finish the job."

"This will be England's finest hour."
*


Good suggestions PP
Arneoker
QUOTE(progressivephoenix @ Jun 28 2005, 03:07 PM)
An American president must do two things to win
1) Speak in soundbites
2) sound upbeat

Thought these are silly requirements for top office, requirements they are. Kerry will never be president. This speech has a good plan but a pessimistic tone. He is saying, "if we don't do this, we will fail."  Americans hate that. They want "If we do this, we will win."  Silly, I know. But it's been like this forever.  Not just Americans either.  Look at Winston Churchill:
"We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools and we will finish the job."

"This will be England's finest hour."
*

PP, the only thing is that I don't think people see Iraq as a Churchillian moment.

The Washington Post-ABC poll indicates that they aren't ready to pull out, but are skeptical about the Bush Administration's optimism and a narrow majority thinks that going in the first place was a mistake.

Actually Kerry might just be striking the right note, a sober assessment of what the situation is and what is necessary to do.
tazvil04
The eternal optimist that I am -- I still would like things framed in a can do way...

After all, we are americans and can achieve any goal...well maybe any goal...at least we think we can...
progressivephoenix
Churchill had many sober assessments. But you always got a sense both that we would win and he knew what he was doing. Kerry gives the latter but not the former.

I really think this is the Democrat's problem, that we sound to pessimistic. I read an old prediction from the 1988 campaign that said Dukakis would lose because he was judged more pessimistic than Bush. Clinton was always more upbeat that his opponients. The Republicans got the hint, and they ran a pollyana. Most liberals are immune to this sort of thing. But he still has the conservative's number.

If this is not seen as a Churchill moment, it's because we don't have any Churchills around.


"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
Winston Churchill


QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jun 28 2005, 10:45 AM)
PP, the only thing is that I don't think people see Iraq as a Churchillian moment.

The Washington Post-ABC poll indicates that they aren't ready to pull out, but are skeptical about the Bush Administration's optimism and a narrow majority thinks that going in the first place was a mistake. 

Actually Kerry might just be striking the right note, a sober assessment of what the situation is and what is necessary to do.
*
ConcernedObserver
QUOTE(progressivephoenix @ Jun 28 2005, 02:37 PM)
An American president must do two things to win
1) Speak in soundbites
2) sound upbeat

Thought these are silly requirements for top office, requirements they are. Kerry will never be president. This speech has a good plan but a pessimistic tone. He is saying, "if we don't do this, we will fail."  Americans hate that. They want "If we do this, we will win."  Silly, I know. But it's been like this forever.  Not just Americans either.  Look at Winston Churchill:
"We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools and we will finish the job."

"This will be England's finest hour."
*


This is hardly the U.S.'s finest hour.

Remember what happened to Churchill as soon as the war was over.

Being upbeat works when the cause is just and the people are 100% behind you. There was no need for Churchill to mislead the people. His speeches to boost morale were necessary to ameliorate the suffering the bombings were inflicting on the populace. His war was supported by every individual with an ounce of decency and honour.

The time for rosy rhetoric is long since past in this instance. The people deserve truth and the troops most assuredly require it.

To suggest less is to pander to the belief that Americans are not courageous enough to cope with the truth. I DO NOT believe that.
DWB04
slightly off topic.....but

Sen. Kerry finds a new best friend

What could ease the sting of a presidential election defeat better than wet, sloppy kisses and spirited games of fetch?

Probably not much. Enter Stache, Sen. John Kerry’s (D-Mass.) new schnauzer puppy. Thanks to the Boston Herald, we learn that the pup’s name comes from “the pronounced hair on his face.”

Stache joins Kim, the would-be first couple’s German shepherd, in what must be an enviable lifestyle for a pooch. He was spotted by Herald sources on the Kerry speedboat in Nantucket.

Said Kerry spokesman David Wade, “Stache sleeps half the day, barks just to hear himself speak and loves to shake hands, so he fits in perfectly in politics.”


some have speculated on an allusion to a certain Mr. Bolton??????? Inquiring minds want to know!

roflmbo.gif

http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/...ome/062805.html
Arneoker
QUOTE(progressivephoenix @ Jun 28 2005, 03:31 PM)
Churchill had many sober assessments.  But you always got a sense both that we would win and he knew what he was doing.  Kerry gives the latter but not the former.

I really think this is the Democrat's problem, that we sound to pessimistic.  I read an old prediction from the 1988 campaign that said Dukakis would lose because he was judged more pessimistic than Bush.  Clinton was always more upbeat that his opponients.  The Republicans got the hint, and they ran a pollyana.  Most liberals are immune to this sort of thing.  But he still has the conservative's number.

If this is not seen as a Churchill moment, it's because we don't have any Churchills around.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
Winston Churchill
*

I think that in general being upbeat is a good idea. Kerry did have a problem with that. I just don't think Iraq is the right "platform" for being upbeat. I'd be more sober than optimistic, although I wouldn't be too morose.
progressivephoenix
Sigh... All I am trying to say is,
"Do this and we will win," is a better frame than
"don't do this and we will lose."

Logically they mean the same thing. Psychologically they are totally different and studies show that people prefer the first statement to the second.


QUOTE(ConcernedObserver @ Jun 28 2005, 11:02 AM)
This is hardly the U.S.'s finest hour.

Remember what happened to Churchill as soon as the war was over.

Being upbeat works when the cause is just and the people are 100% behind you. There was no need for Churchill to mislead the people. His speeches to boost morale were necessary to ameliorate the suffering the bombings were inflicting on the populace. His war was supported by every individual with an ounce of decency and honour.

The time for rosy rhetoric is long since past in this instance. The people deserve truth and the troops most assuredly require it.

To suggest less is to pander to the  belief that Americans are not  courageous enough to cope with the truth. I DO NOT believe that.
*
tazvil04
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jun 28 2005, 01:07 PM)
I think that in general being upbeat is a good idea.  Kerry did have a problem with that.  I just don't think Iraq is the right "platform" for being upbeat.  I'd be more sober than optimistic, although I wouldn't be too morose.
*


I think part of the problem is balance...

Kerry's whole belief is that we can do better in Iraq...and the last thing he wants to do is demoralize the troops...

Sober is fine...you can be sober and still be optimistic -- we can do better if George W. Bush would stop being stubborn and start being a leader...if Donald Rumsfeld would show his character and resign...if the DOD and White House would listen to their generals in the field and provide more troops...
progressivephoenix
It's not that difficult a concept really. If you go to a doctor and he says you have some horrible but treatable disease, you are actually more likely to recover if he emphasizes how treatable it is, rather either than how horrible or the details of the treatment.



QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jun 28 2005, 11:07 AM)
I think that in general being upbeat is a good idea.  Kerry did have a problem with that.  I just don't think Iraq is the right "platform" for being upbeat.  I'd be more sober than optimistic, although I wouldn't be too morose.
*
ConcernedObserver
QUOTE(progressivephoenix @ Jun 28 2005, 03:10 PM)
Sigh... All I am trying to say is,
"Do this and we will win," is a better frame than
"don't do this and we will lose."

Logically they mean the same thing.  Psychologically they are totally different and studies show that people prefer the first statement to the second.
*


I know what you were saying and unfortunately I also know you are right but that doesn't mean that it isn't way past time for Americans to grow up.

Fairy tales are for children.

Look where that attitude and mind set has taken your country.

It's time for a strong dose of reality before it's too late for all of us.

Or are you ready for the next phase ? Iran maybe ?
DWB04
QUOTE(ConcernedObserver @ Jun 28 2005, 12:15 PM)
I know what you were saying and unfortunately I also know  you are right but that doesn't mean that it isn't way past time for Americans to grow up.

Fairy tales are for children.

Look where that attitude and mind set has taken your country.

It's time for a strong dose of reality before it's too late for all of us.

Or are you ready for the next phase ? Iran maybe ?
*

Amen CO......Thank You
Arneoker
QUOTE(ConcernedObserver @ Jun 28 2005, 03:45 PM)
I know what you were saying and unfortunately I also know  you are right but that doesn't mean that it isn't way past time for Americans to grow up.

Fairy tales are for children.

Look where that attitude and mind set has taken your country.

It's time for a strong dose of reality before it's too late for all of us.

Or are you ready for the next phase ? Iran maybe ?
*

Let's face it, Iraq was a major bungle.

Being optimistic about it is like being optimistic about performing surgery on someone who just got out of a horrible car accident. We don't want to just give up, encouragement is fine, but sober assessment is what's needed most of all.

I just don't see selling Iraq as some sort of triumph, even potential triumph. Now such uplifting rhetoric might be appropriate, for the Iraqis. If that seems crazy, think about it, they are in such dire straits they might as well latch onto as much hope as they can permit themselves. But that's their concern. I just don't see the U.S. sharing that in the same way. Our hope is that the worst can be avoided, and I don't see where the sunniest rhetoric is going to make it look any different.

And to comment on something related, let me just say, as someone who does think that the U.S. should be supporting democracy all over the world, that I just loathe the slogan "Freedom is on the March." Freedom does not march! Maybe it seemed to when we swept across Western Europe in 1944-45 but we were merely permitting free peoples to reclaim what had been stolen from them. We need to foster democracy in ways other than invasion. I know that's not your position, PP, but I just had to make this point.
rla
PP,
The way Kerry did say it was less dishonest than if he had said it the way you are suggesting, IMO.
ConcernedObserver
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jun 28 2005, 03:32 PM)
I just don't see selling Iraq as some sort of triumph, even potential triumph.  Now such uplifting rhetoric might be appropriate, for the Iraqis.  If that seems crazy, think about it, they are in such dire straits they might as well latch onto as much hope as they can permit themselves.  But that's their concern.  I just don't see the U.S. sharing that in the same way.  Our hope is that the worst can be avoided, and I don't see where the sunniest rhetoric is going to make it look any different.

*


Arneoker, I believe Iraq is going to go down in history as a major error in judgment by those with a political agenda which took precedence over the welfare of the country and in fact the entire Free World, and which should have brought about the impeachment of an administration.( if you could impeach an entire administration... sad.gif )

The repercussions have only just begun. Our enemies have multiplied alarmingly, the barriers have been torn down on nuclear proliferation, and God only knows what it is going to snowball into. Bush and his buddies may be ready for Armageddon but are you ? I know I'm not.

No sunny rhetoric is going to change that.

Before this ends VietNam is going to look like a footnote.

I agree that Iraqis need hope but that can only come from within. If the truth were known they hate us as much as any Muslim does. And .. with justification.
rla
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jun 28 2005, 08:58 AM)
Perhaps Kerry really believes what he said.  He may be wrong, although personally I think he is right. 

In that context I don't see a point in conceding any error to Bush.  Unless the "error" is clearly an error, no Democrat should concede anything right now and give an advantage to the Republicans. 

This is the time to be partisan to the hilt.  We can discuss anything here, but I would advise Democratic leaders against conceding anything, unless it's absolutely necessary to maintain one's integrity.  (Durbin made a mistake in apologizing, I've come to that opinion.)
*

I agree that Durbin didn't need to appologize and I don't think Kerry needs to appoligize to the Republicans. I think Kerry made a mistake in judgement when
he went along with the Democratic Party Leadership in support of the authorization
for Bush to have the authority to start a premptive war with Iraq. Subsequent events have clearly shown this to have been a mistake and because Kerry still won't acknowledge it as such he is putting the Democratic Party at a disadvantgage
in assuming its rightfull role as the opposition party and its ability to resist the excesses of the Bush Neocons.
heritage
A republican on CNN just said that the media gave Kerry press when it should be George Bush's day. He said : Kerry lost, so why should he get favorable press. No one wanted Kerry's solution for the war.

What whiners! The republicans don't own all the media yet.
DWB04
QUOTE(heritage @ Jun 28 2005, 01:48 PM)
A republican on CNN just said that the media gave Kerry press when it should be George Bush's day.  He said : Kerry lost, so why should he get favorable press. No one wanted Kerry's solution for the war.

What whiners! The republicans don't own all the media yet.
*

it's not bush's day......that day belongs to us......and I think he will soundly disappoint us.
progressivephoenix
Was FDR dishonest? If so, was he therefore wrong?

"To reach a port, we must sail - sail, not tie at anchor - sail, not drift."

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself."

"The point in history at which we stand is full of promise and danger. The world will either move forward toward unity and widely shared prosperity - or it will move apart."

"More than an end to war, we want an end to the beginning of all wars - yes, an end to this brutal, inhuman and thoroughly impractical method of settling the differences between governments."

We have always held to the hope, the belief, the conviction that there is a better life, a better world, beyond the horizon."

Why did FDR face difficulties so much worse than we do at this moment, yet sound so much more hopeful than all of us put together? With 25% unemployment should he have said, "The only think we have to fear is starvation?" That would have been a lot more honest.







QUOTE(rla @ Jun 28 2005, 11:44 AM)
PP,
The way Kerry did say it was less dishonest than if he had said it the way you are suggesting, IMO.
*
Callicles
anger.gif
QUOTE(heritage @ Jun 28 2005, 04:48 PM)
A republican on CNN just said that the media gave Kerry press when it should be George Bush's day.  He said : Kerry lost, so why should he get favorable press. No one wanted Kerry's solution for the war.

What whiners! The republicans don't own all the media yet.
*



IT's BUSH's DAY?!?!

What the #@&%@$ ????

Did somebody declare this his national birthday or something??? Excuse me, but NO DAY will ever belong to GW, especially since the only thing that he wants to do is to play dress up in a GI JOE suit, put on some Rose colored glasses, and try and re-sell his failed policies and failed presidency to the American People a new communications strategy written and plotted out by Karen Hughes and Karl Rove in what amounts to nothing other than a pack of lies!!!!

Wow... I'm feeling much better now.

When does Dubya's sales pitch start again??? I think I may get a head start on that bottle of wine I presume I'll need to watch the speech, which I will watch simply because the distinguished Senator from Massachusetts has urged us to do so. biggrin.gif whistling.gif
DWB04
QUOTE(Callicles @ Jun 28 2005, 02:33 PM)
anger.gif
IT's BUSH's DAY?!?! 

What the #@&%@$ ????

Did somebody declare this his national birthday or something??? Excuse me, but NO DAY will ever belong to GW, especially since the only thing that he wants to do is to play dress up in a GI JOE suit, put on some Rose colored glasses, and try and re-sell his failed policies and failed presidency to the American People a new communications strategy written and plotted out by Karen Hughes and Karl Rove in what amounts to nothing other than a pack of lies!!!!

Wow... I'm feeling much better now. 

When does Dubya's sales pitch start again???  I think I may get a head start on that bottle of wine I presume I'll need to watch the speech, which I will watch simply because the distinguished Senator from Massachusetts has urged us to do so.  biggrin.gif  whistling.gif
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thanks for expanding on my thoughts! thumbsup.gif


Cheers beer.gif Pretend this is a glass of wine!
Callicles
QUOTE(DWB04 @ Jun 28 2005, 05:37 PM)
thanks for expanding on my thoughts!  thumbsup.gif
Cheers  beer.gif  Pretend this is a glass of wine!
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Cheers beer.gif
rla
QUOTE(progressivephoenix @ Jun 28 2005, 03:05 PM)
Was FDR dishonest?  If so, was he therefore wrong?

"To reach a port, we must sail - sail, not tie at anchor - sail, not drift."

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself."

"The point in history at which we stand is full of promise and danger. The world will either move forward toward unity and widely shared prosperity - or it will move apart."

"More than an end to war, we want an end to the beginning of all wars - yes, an end to this brutal, inhuman and thoroughly impractical method of settling the differences between governments."

We have always held to the hope, the belief, the conviction that there is a better life, a better world, beyond the horizon."

Why did FDR face difficulties so much worse than we do at this moment, yet sound so much more hopeful than all of us put together?  With 25% unemployment should he have said, "The only think we have to fear is starvation?"  That would have been a lot more honest.
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PP, Are you suggesting that Kerry should assume the role of cheer learer for
Bush's misguided game plan?
wicheewoman
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Jun 28 2005, 01:57 PM)
The eternal optimist that I am -- I still would like things framed in a can do way...

After all, we are americans and can achieve any goal...well maybe any goal...at least we think we can...
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Kerry would be framing in a "can do way" if he were President..because he would be doing it. rolleyes.gif
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