Does anyone here know if the NEA, AFT and/or other pertinent groups have taken positions on this?

Methinks if this ruling stands then 'twould open the door to the destruction of tribal schools on reservations next, eh? Scary thought!

What do you expect from those idiots that infest the 9th. Circuit. The most overturned court in the country.

When I read the article, my first reaction was that the ruling appears to be unjust. However, after examining the reasoning behind the ruling , basically discrimination by way of exclusion, I think the court is right on this issue because it speaks to a broader issue of discrimination. If I allow my imagination to create scenarios where exclusionary racial policies are supported by the courts, I can understand and even support the ruling.

Methinks to appreciate how devastatin' this ruling is to the concept of equal opportunity for native Hawaiians you gotta understand the history of Hawaii. 'Twould seem few do, eh?

For a long time the haole, especially the missionary families and big moneyed outsiders, have usurped the islands and its special culture. This has been especially true since the 1893 U.S.-backed overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy, eh? IOT counteract this the Kamehameha Schools were established under the 1883 will of a Hawaiian princess and 'twould seem to have helped the natives succeed in a haole dominated atmosphere.

What's next? Goin' after the special admissions policy of Brigham Young University for native Hawaiians? Maybe tryin' to strike down the special status of Indian tribal schools on the reservations? Doin' away with the traditionally black colleges?

I ain't Hawaiian, but am part Chippewa (Ojibwe) and part Lakota (Sioux). For two years in the 1950's I attended school on the Red Lake Reservation in northern Minnesota learning of our people's culture and traditions. Consequently I see the potential threat this ruling could pose towards other native peoples in America, eh?

IAC, for your interest, ma halo!

Just too remind everybody in here, the Supreme court has already said that schools CANNOT discriminate IF they get any federal funds, since in essence the federal funds are tax dollers going to support a given school, and tax dollers is everybodys money incl those that get discrimminatet, therefore federal supportet institutions CANNOT discrimminate since those that are discriminatet against have already (Indirectly) payed for their admission.
BUT institutions that does NOT get Federal support can for all sence and purposes set their own submission standarts wether school or workplace.

NOW some of you might say that discrimmination is forbidden by federal law, and even privatly held companies has to follow those rules, this is true to a point, the ruling said ONLY that it was when federal support was involved (And state for that matter since states gets support from the federal govement).
ALL companies come in contact whit Federal (And State) support at one time or another, fks Infra structure, various communication, police and firebrigades (State), orders from Federal and State institutions, Medicare of workers you can find dozens of places were State and Federal is involved in the common support of us all. Even in the most private of buisnesses.

NOW Schools and firms outside federal juristriction is not bound by those rules eksept indirectly, that includes Red lake reservation were Flydangler were educatet, + it has already been establised that fundations are NOT under the same rules (The ideas of fundations would go down the drain in that case), that means that NO-ONE is capable off forcing ANY fundations to give ANY money outside the charter they were placed under.
Fks you cannot demand that Kamehameha's fundations gives you equal support compare to those Hawaians that have a RIGHT to seek and get that support, SO the plaintif is right, he does have a right to get in to Kamehameha' school he has on the other hand NO right to expect the same economic preferential treatment that the other pupils get. IE he will get to pay what is the standard for equlivant schools elsewere.

Not sure if the Kamehameha Schools get any federal funds, but if I remember correctly tribal schools are funded totally with federal funds through the BIA, eh?

So 'twould seem this case could mean neither of these systems could provide the means for equal opportunity for their target populations. Methinks that's a kick in the pants!

I do understand and sympathize with the concerns. Native Hawaiians as well as Native Americans want to pass their cultural heritage on to their children. Are there not other ways to do that successfully without having exclusionary policies in their schools? The problem with any type of racial, ethnic or religious exclusion policies is that though they may seem "righteous"in their intent, they are in fact a form of discrimination. As an example, because Catholic schools allow non-Catholics to matriculate does not mean that the schools adjust their curricula to fit the needs of the non Catholics. By the way, what does "IAC" mean? I can't figure it out!

I don't know that I have a firm opinion about this yet - but I may be leaning more towards Doc's arguement because no public funding is involved and it seems the source of the funding had a very specific purpose in mind.

When I was in Honolu, Hawaii, we accidently ended up taking the bus to the north end of the island where the "natives" live (hope that term doesn't offend anyone). We missed the Pearl Habor bus stop. Anyhow, it was quite an eye opener. At the time we were there, the Japanese were investing heavily in everything that was for sale. There were also many Europeans there. The native Hawaiians housing was reminiscent of what one might see in some of the poorer areas you would find in any city in the mainland. What a contras to the highrise condo's and hotels.

Kamehameha Schools case raises rights issue Moolelo
The Honolulu Advertiser
Thursday, November 4, 2004

By Vicki Vioti
Advertiser Staff Writer

Attorneys for Kamehameha Schools and a non-Hawaiian student challenging the school's admissions policy argued in a federal appeals court today over whether a civil rights law applies to the private institution.

In oral arguments before the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, the Doe vs. Kamehameha case also raised questions over whether the three-judge panel should consider that the trust supporting the school was funded by lands owned by the Hawaiian monarchy.

A year ago in November, U.S. District Judge Alan Kay ruled that the school's policy of giving preference to student applicants who have at least some Hawaiian blood did not violate a section of federal law that prohibits racial discrimination in contractual matters. The plaintiffs then appealed.

The Kamehameha Schools case is one of two pivotal lawsuits affecting Native Hawaiians being heard by the appeals court this month.

Eric Grant, representing the unnamed plaintiffs in the admissions case, cited previous rulings suggesting that the source of the school's funding is irrelevant.

"The court has said that regardless of the origin of the funds the regular rules apply," Grant said. He was referring to a case challenging an all-white academy in Pennsylvania.

However, presiding Judge Susan Graber said she saw a distinction between Kamehameha and the Pennsylvania school: "There wasn't a king of Pennsylvania that I know of," she said.

Kamehameha attorney Kathleen Sullivan said the federal law in question never meant to remove remedial institutions like Kamehameha.

Grant's rebuttal was that the use of the term remedial is being misused here. "Certain remedial programs are permitted, but those are programs that remediate discrimination within the institutions being challenged," Grant said.

The legal clash began last year with a pair of federal cases filed in the Hawai'i district.

A year ago, Kamehameha settled an almost identical lawsuit filed on behalf of Brayden Mohica-Cummings, a non-Hawaiian student. School attorneys said they settled primarily to ensure that if any case were to be appealed, it would be the favorable ruling Kay had issued on the Doe case weeks earlier.

Should Kamehameha not prevail in its appeal, Nainoa Thompson, chairman of the board of trustees, said the school would appeal ‹ all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court if necessary.

© COPYRIGHT 2002 The Honolulu Advertiser, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.

If I'm correct, this school receives no federal funds. I thought the law only applies to schools that are receiving federal funds. I'll have to do some research about private schools that are soley independently funded and how this law applies to them.
Interesting legal case. I'll do more reading and thinking on this issue. I really do sympathize with the school, but I always try to look at all sides of an issue before I form a firm opinion. Putting aside the legalities of this case, my sentiments side with the Kamehameha schools.

That was my impression too Amy. And if it is then you would have to also wonder about the traditional religious schools and why the same wouldn't apply as well to the schools on the reservations.

Where's Noonan - I'm surprised he hasn't chimed in.

Well, I know that many of the Catholic schools receive some federal funding for their special needs programs and maybe other programs as well. Now I'm curious and a bit baffled. about the federal law's applications. Since I used to teach in a public school, you would think I would know more about this but obviously I need a refresher course. Tomorrow, I'll start researching-if I find anything interesting I'll post it here.

Noonan! Noonan!! Get your butt in here!!!!

You are correct they dont get any founding at all from federal sourses, but i guess they are in the same sort of trap as each and every company on american soil is and that includes institutions of any kind.
They have to make use of federal facillities in one way or another, wether infrastructure or municipal services (Sewers, firemen etc etc), in that case they can get hit by the equal oppotuinity law since common tax $ has payed for them.



They don't since reservations according to federal law is foreign countries for all practical purposes.
But that those leave another avenue if the federal courts turns sour on the School, they can (Justly) claim that since the Hawaii kingdom is not formally absorbed or laid down. the rules about reservations will be equally relevant for them even throu the kingdom is not a federal entity (excistet long before anybody had heard about Washington or his grandfather).
This also means than even throu Hawaii is a state, it's permanent titulary AND RULING head is the royal family BY INTERNATIONAL LAW.
Read about how the absorbtion of the Islands came about and you will see a potential hornets nest and legistative nightmare if it was followed throu.




If you get any federal or State support at all you are subjekt to the equal oppotunity law, PERIOD.

But there is one avenue i mentioned in my first post about the school that could be used to make sure that it is either students it was intentet for that gets in, or if not then student that really really wants to go there.
The way is fairly easy (IF HANDLE RIGHT) simply ask the student in quistion to pay the tuition that would be normal for a school like Kamehameha. This can be done whituot steeping either ACLU's or Federal toes simply by saying that since each student get stipend from the foundation supporting the school to be able to go there, it is totally whitin the federal law that the school in that case tells the student *Yes you can go here...No you can not get the stipendt unless you have a right to it...* IE in other words his stay will be much more expencive by default.

If you can follow the legalese......Here is a possible answer from Dept of Ed--- Does this school participate in sports with PUBLIC SCHOOLS in the area? This may be one way that they are considerd to be recieving BENIFIT from Federal Funds.... through sports!

However, if the nonpublic school is not to be a recipient of Federal financial assistance, but merely seeks eligibility for its students to participate in the federally assisted program of the public institution, OCR does not require HEW Form 441 from the nonpublic school. Rather, OCR requires the public institution which is the recipient of Federal assistance to provide that form and the documentation referred to above.

It should be noted, however, that the children enrolled in the nonpublic school cannot participate in the public school program if the nonpublic school engages in discriminatory practices prohibited by Title VI. Even though the nonpublic school is not a recipient, any discriminatory practices by it would, in our view, directly affect the federally assisted program. The recipient school is responsible for making sure that no discriminatory practices occur in the federally assisted program and, if any questions arise in this regard, OCR looks to the recipient for further information or compliance activities.

Although the Regional Offices of OCR will be able to provide information about those schools which have become the subject of a compliance review, OCR does not maintain a list, as such, of approved nonpublic schools and we do not require a nonpublic school to be so listed in order that children enrolled there can participate in public school programs.

If there are any questions they should be sent to the appropriate Regional OCR Director. Their names and addresses are as follows:

REGION IX—ARIZONA, CALIFORNIA, HAWAII, NEVADA


Mr. Floyd L. Pierce, Director, Office for Civil Rights, Region IX, Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, 760 Market StreetRoom 700, San Francisco, California 94102.

I think the hard drive is failing in the laptop I normally use, so I've been dedicating my time to trying to get that fixed and doing work on a school improvement committee. Things are getting pretty heated around here, had the fourth Board member resign this summer (out of seven on the Board). I only hope they find a way to axe our Superintendent.

I'm here. I don't have much to add to this thread, I've read the news, but that's it. My brain is too occupied with other stuff and other work that I haven't been posting much anywhere this week. Thanks for thinking of me