8/3/2005

Democrats set up fake organizations to support gun control policies
Democratic Leadership Council use PR firm to push more Gun Laws

A Washington based PR Firm called DCS - Internet Advocacy Group thats used by a list of who's who in the Democrat party as well as the official PR firm for the Democrat leadership Council (DLC) that Sen. Hillary Clinton is the 'Chair' member as well as reportedly hand pick DCS to do ALL of the DLC PR work.

DCS Has register a bogus 'Pro-Gun' sportsmen group in the attempt to make it appear as hunters and trap shooters are in favor of Assault weapon 'bans as well as other anti gun related issues.

By creating this made up group called The American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA), who will inevitably be used in future Democrat led anti gun campaigns in the near future as so called 'expert' witnesses or a 'sane' voice of sportsmen. just so the anti gun democrats can grandstand for gun control non-issues via their willing accomplishes in the press. I'd imagine the closer we get to the '08' presidential election the more (AHSA) will be in the news.

Dick Morris , former Clinton PR man has stated numerously how the Democrats and Sen. Hillary have personally created made up Internet based advocacy groups repeatedly in the past to drum up false public support to site at their press conferences and Senate hearings, just so the Democrats will get their names put out in the news. According to Morris, During the Clinton administration there was a brainstorming group under then first lady Hillary's oversight inside the white house who did this kind of fabricated PR all the time.

So who did DCS make as the head of their bogus gun group, well none other than John Rosenthal, Co founder of Stop Handgun Violence (SHV). SHV has supported every anti-second amendment rights bill since the organizations creation.The personal pet anti gun group of the anti-gun Democrats.

The following background on all involved was uncovered.

[1.] The bogus Pro gun group: The American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA) is located at: 600 Pennsylvania Ave SE, suite 200, Washington, District of Columbia 20003 As listed on their website and on their domain name registration.

Its domain name: http://www.huntersandshooters.com was registered on 25-Apr-05 by Registrant:DCS - Internet Advocacy Group, 600 Pennsylvania Ave SE,suite 200,Washington, District of Columbia

20003 As listed on DCS website and on their domain name registration.
DCS website is located here: http://dcscongressional.com/

[2.] The Democrat leadership council http://www.dlc.org/
is located at: 600 Pennsylvania Ave SE, suite 400, Washington, District of Columbia 20003 As listed on their website and on their domain name registration.

[3.] The PR Firm called DCS- Internet Advocacy Group http://dcscongressional.com/
is located at: 600 Pennsylvania Ave SE, suite 200, Washington, District of Columbia 20003

[4.] So ALL three groups:The Democrat leadership council (DLC) , DCS - Internet Advocacy Group and The American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA) Are located in the same building and all three groups are pushing to take away your rights via their made up causes for the sake of getting their faces in the news.

According to Bernstein Management Corp. the Property Managements website: http://www.bernsteinmgmt.com/
Location: 600 Pennsylvania Avenue, SE Washington, DC,
Contact Number: (202) 363-6301 Austin Herndon

Please click through on the main link to get the original source for this.
posted by John Lott at 3:00 PM

John Lott's Website

I ranted a bit on Democratic Underground about this. If indeed the Democratic Leadership Council was/is behind this, it makes them look sneaky indeed.

Crossposted from DU:





It is the selection of John Rosenthal as executive VP that worries me more than anything. Unless he's had a change of heart, he considers many of the guns my wife and I own (including her defensive handgun) to be "weapons of mass destruction whose only purpose is to kill as many people as possible without having to stop and reload," as he stated in one 2004 press release.

If the organization proved to be truly pro-gun, I'd probably join. But until I hear otherwise, I seriously doubt they are pro-gun at all, since Mr. Rosenthal has been harshly critical of civilian ownership of handguns, over-10-round guns, and modern-looking long guns.

*sigh* Then I wish Stephen, BenEzra, cherokeebob and others would start a "Responsible Gun Owners" Association and put out the facts as we have arrived at here.

Do you think it is possible that this sort of thinking is why many voters did not decide to exchange the authoritarian right for the authoritarian Democratic DLC-middle? Votors need more than a choice of who is going to diminish their freedoms. We need Democratic leadership that wants to fight for restoring and preserving our liberties, not dream up ways to take even more of them than the Republicans have.

If this organization is a "Trojan Horse" the Democratic Party needs to repudiate it instantly. How the hell do you convince people to trust you when you continue playing head games? Just once in my life I want to cast a positive vote, I am tired of the "lesser of evils" game.

I believe it was Taz who did alot of work in that area.

I am afraid that facts don't matter to too many people, they just grab whatever they hear, as though it were the truth.
It is as important to be knowledgeable about things you have little interest in, as it is to know about your interests. Lacking that knowledge, your opinions have little value.

RD,

If you are needing one explanation as to my vote in 2004, you have to look no further than this.
After Howard Dean's comments on gun rights, I would like to hear his reasoning here.
I've been making the rounds of some of my gun forums and needless to say...they're pissed!
I would think the the DNC would not be any hurry to arouse the NRA base.

As an example of attitude from many democrats, I am a mountain bike riding bird watcher. If I get around most cyclists, or bird watchers, and they learn that I am a gun owner and used to hunt, all of a sudden I'm not considered fit to share the air with them. It is overt hatred, and I don't believe I deserve it, but some of them would actually get physically aggressive if they thought no one was looking. I have been accused of being responsible for every evil on the earth, since Pandora opened the box. Many people don't seem to understand how condescending, patronizing and insulting the great goose hunt episode was, to many, many decent voters. Do rural people really seem that stupid? Is the act of living in a rural area indicative of low intelligence? I seems that too many democrats believe it does, so, what is to be done about it? Acceptance of others must be genuine, fake attempts are obvious, but I don't see much desire on the part of many to change long time preconceptions. In the meantime, the nation surges to the right, and it is being pushed there, not pulled. There is a distinction between these terms, pushed and pulled, think about it.
Will I ever change my views to please strangers, hell no, why should I? I've done nothing to be ashamed of. I didn't grow up in a city, why must I pretend to be anyone other than myself? I like myself the way I was born.
This is a bigotry that most democrats would find unacceptable, in any other circumstances, and like all bigotry, it comes back to burn the bigot in the end. Maybe it already has!
Some folks around here need to try that shoe on, it may fit.

Same thoughts here on the goose hunt Bob.

If he'd wanted to go goose hunting he'd gone goose hunting and not turned it into a photo op. Some time I think Kerry had a 12 year old kid doing the thinking for his campaign.

So when Bush is shown clearing brush on his "ranch", you buy that? Or when he parades around in a flight suit on an Aircraft Carrier that's a good and realistic depiction of Bush? Kerry was being himself, you were fed crap about who his is and was, just as you have been fed crap about who Bush is.

He does go goose hunting that's not a lie, like Bush "landing aboard that Carrier"! You can scorn Kerry all you want, but he's ten times the man Bush will ever be!

The Democrats in charge have the perspective of DC parties and a largely urban and homogenized social group, who like Republicans, will not dare stray from the status quo. They miss the opportunity of getting the support of sportsman, whose activities would normally make the allies to a pro-environment party.

It really is a shame, just when the Republicans are clearly out of touch with reality, the Democrats are off in the own "Private Idaho". So far the Republican's mistfortunes have cost them dearly, but the Democarts do not seem to ready to sieze the opportunity.

Like he hunts deer crawlin' 'round the woods on his belly with his trusty shotgun as he claimed in an interview, eh? Methinks, if I recall correctly, the pictures of Kerry comin' out from the infamous goose hunt showed him carryin' somethin' other than a gun you'd be goose shootin' with.

Also not sure what Bush "landing aboard that Carrier" or Kerry goose huntin' has to do with this thread, eh? 'Twould seem we gotta try harder to stay on topic...

I was responding to the perceptions of Kerry versus Bush as described by Marine, Flydangler. The truth is that I don't personally know any Liberal who wants to take any responsible gun owners gun away from them. Truth is, authentic Liberals believe in just that, Liberty!

But as far as whether Kerry was carrying his gun, or a goose, or crawls when he hunts or doesn't, don't amount to anything important IMO. And with all due respect, since I don't think you've been with him on any hunts, how would you know what he does?

We do know that Bush lies about really important things, and I can provide you with a list if you'd like. But perhaps we'll leave that for another thread as you suggest.

Sorry, my bad, eh? Just seemed an interestin', and maybe important topic was startin' to go astray.

Methinks I'll just mosey on and look for a fascinatin' conspiracy theory now. My apologies for the interruption.

The problem extends to millions of democrat voters, who actually seem to see themselves morally superior to rural voters. Did you read my previous post in depth , or just skim over it looking for places to launch your talking points?

I read it cherokeebob. I felt that I had addressed a similar concern you expressed in another thread.

As for my "talking points", I guess I seem like a "johnny one note" to some, but I don't do "talking points", I just speak from my heart and my own mind.

Just like the rural, and urban folk I call friends.

No, I don't buy that. The flight suit bit I might actually believe, since it is a documented fact that Bush had flight training. Please note that by no means indicates I am a supporter if his.

Kerry's hunting was a blatant publicity stunt. It might have gone over with people that don't hunt, but to anybody that knows even a little bit about the subject it was an obvious put-on. Crawling in the mud is simply not a part of deer hunting, so it's not really relevant whether he does it or not.

Btw, here's another leader of a country doing yardwork:

That old?

Well, you can see that "photo" is phony he hasn't even taken off his coat.

I don't hunt, so from what I read I understand Kerry does. But, I repeat; whether that was a photo op set-up I have no doubt, that's what you do when you're running for office. The only point I was making is which photo-op is more realistic? And when we get to the subject of truthfulness about issues that affect you and me, I know that Bush is a liar.

I don't care if he actually clears brush on his "ranch" or not!

Did I at any point say he was not? You really do not need to convince me.

Here's the thing. I don't doubt you need photo ops when running for office. I think the fact that you do is a sad commentary on our society and humans in general, but that's the way it is. Unfortunately, perception is what matters most in these things. Kerry's positioning as a hunter was very obviously fake and it turned off the very people he was targeting. In my mind, the fact that he didn't bother to get consultation on that subject before bringing it out in public shows rather low regard on his part for the target audience, regardless of whether he is a hunter or not. Could it have really been that hard to look up a hunter?

Think of it as showing up for a job interview reeking of onions. Sure, it's not important to the job, but it's likely to remove you from consideration.

Many of us have already set up an email campaign against this group. There are some pretty livid gun owners out there right now. I expect the NRA, GOA and JFPO to get on board. We will expose the organization for what it really is. Shame on Howard Dean for allowing this to happen.

I don't know that it was a matter of not bothering, and by implication perhaps "dissing" the target audience. So he's awkward, not slick. Maybe that means to me that he's not used to doing "photo-ops" real good. I remember when he got together with his band of brothers from Nam' and they all piled aboard that boat in Boston. It meant something to him and to those guys. Seemed sincere to me, not faked, just showing Kerry the sometimes awkward Kerry, with his brothers from those days they fought for our country together.

I remember we had a real awkward president once, wasn't a pretty face, gave a speech that lasted only about what, 10 minutes? We still teach that speech in our Public Schools.

Stephen have you contacted Dean, and told him about your concerns?

It's not just the photo-op. It's the "crawling in the mud with a shotgun" statement.

Besides, a photo-op involving guns without expert consultation is unsafe and begging for trouble.

To be honest I don't even remember hearing the statement, but I'll take your word for it WHIGHF.

I guess I'm just not that target audience, and I only saw snippets of the "Hunting photo-op". But, really aside from him not getting "expert consultation" do you really think he wants to take your guns away?

Why are we hung on photo ops? The problem is that a significant portion of the party, including much of the leadership, views another portion of the party as backward.
Kerry may hunt, as a casual activity, but he does not have the body language of an outdoorsman. This is not an indictment, just a statement, that you should be true to yourself and don't try to be anyone else. It doesn't sell in Mayberry.
Now, how do we heal the split over this issue, and give everyone an equal, and respected place, in the organization?

Well, on the gun issue I say to the Dems resolve it and drop it! Come right out and say truthfully that aside from crime and community safety, that we have NO problem with responsible gun ownership.

As to the urban, rural snob factor, maybe some re-education of those dems on a partywide basis is in order if this is widespread. I think Dean and others are trying to reach out, but maybe he needs to hear from people with this insight. I don't judge anybodys' intelligence except by their actions, and I respect everyone I meet until I learn they don't deserve it. that's what my momma taught me. I'd assume that's the way you are too cherokeebob.

Not really. What I think is that he is sufficiently ignorant on the subject that he would go along with any harebrained idea so long as it sounded good, like, say, the infamous AWB.

Now, if he couldn't be bothered to get adequate information in the course of his campaign, why would I believe he would do that in the course of the actual presidency?

Maybe because he's new to the job of running for president. I'm more interested he spend his time on learning how the hell do we get out of this swamp, and where is high ground. If you listen to what he has said he sure as hell got "expert consultation" on Iraq, compared with Bushs' "experts" like Rummy and Wolfowitz!

He listens and reads WHIGHF, thats' a good sign, no? Look we gotta fix some things in the Dem Party for sure, so lets' fix it!

My head is already bloody from banging it against the damned wall!
The little unincorporated community I live in is way out in the middle of no where, and there is a shotgun by every door, and a Colt or S&W on every bedside lampstand. People teach their little kids to shoot in the backyard. The biggest crime we are likely to see is kids wrapping toilet paper around a mailbox. If I need help, for anything, all I need to do is go out and yell for it, someone will come. Back when I first moved on to this piece of land, the driveway from the road was so bad I had to haul my little Mazda pickup back and forth, from tree to tree, with a come along. I save my mad money for a while, and got 4 truckloads of good fill hauled in. That was on a Friday. Saturday morning I woke up hearing a tractor running, went outside, and a neighbor I had never met was out there grading MY driveway. It would have taken months, with a shovel, to do what that neighbor did in an hour. He wouldn't even let me put fuel in the tractor. When my daughter, son in law, and grandson were able to move here on part of the land I gave them, before the electricity was even on, neighbors were showing up with fresh eggs, fresh baked bread, you name it. You can just call us "trailer trash". No big deal, some folks already do!
I suspect that most voters out here voted republican last time around, does anyone want to dissect that, and suggest a reason?
I don't speak exactly as I write, I say "Y'all", and other corny, Mayberry type stuff a lot.
If anyone thinks I'm stupid, or backward, and there are those that do, watch out!
I may do something just to give someone a needed lesson, in honesty, and humility. Whether or not they learn anything is strictly up to them.

If somone insulted you cherokeebob, I would expect you to respond with hostility. I've lived out in rural Illinois for 5 years during the 70's. We didn't have a town named Mayberry in the area but we had towns some under 200 pop. with names like Cabery, Cullom, Herscher, etc..As a big city boy I was surprised at the friendlness of small town folk, and farmers.

I enjoyed being recognized in the Bank, and not having to pull out identification papers for everything. I soon participated in the things that neighbors do, especially during the blizzard of 76'. Everybody was out with shovels, and we made food runs to the IGA supermarket to get food for, and check on the elderly living in town. IOU's were taken without a thought at the markets. I'll always remember those experiences and the friendliness and acceptance I received. Mutual respect always works.

I also remember how people reacted here in Los Angeles when we had the Big One (Northridge). The local market took IOU's , and the local restaurant fed people for free even though they had no electricity.

Cherokeebob I don't know who those people you met that dissed you were, but they sound like idiots. Maybe that's all they were, and I would say you can find snobs and idiots anywhere, but most people are decent. That's my experience anyway.

Ah, my friend, you are still trying to "dance between the raindrops".
Could be that "Mayberry" never existed, except as an ideal "village", but, one thing sure is that "Mayberry" will forever be an object of scorn, and derision, to all the urban eliteists!
Try dumping all your preloaded bias, just for a moment. Are you able, can you do it?

Care to explain what preloaded bias your talking about that I have? Then if we agree that's what it is, and that I have it, I may be able to "drop it". And stop trying to "dance between the raindrops", if that's what I've been doing.

Your preloaded bias doesn't seem to influence the "preloaded bias" of DiFi, and her constituents, all due respect, to all, and each, and everyone, of them. The issue that seems to be tripping you, us, whatever, whoever, up, is the insistence that DiFi, and her constituents, are truly representative, are truly representative, or relevent, to anyone more than 50 feet from DiFis fookin back yard!
The issue I am trying to address is the stupidity, the futility, of overwhelming, absolute arrogance. It may well be that I ain't smart enough, or eloquent enough, to get my point across.
One thing sure, you can't say I never tried!
In a very subtle way, my friend, you continue to prove, and validate, most of what I say.

So you think I'm being subtle? That's what, country talk, for "slick", dishonest? You're plenty articulate cherokeebob, so why don't you just spell out what you mean.

When you say DiFi and her constituents should I assume you mean we Left Coasters? And the myth that we Big City Coasters look down on all you "Fly Overs"?

Let me ask you a question cherokeebob, have you ever listened to Ed Schultz on Air America Radio out of Fargo?

Who is DiFi supposed to be representative of? She's a Senator from California, and while I support her, I don't always agree with her votes, but she has the decency to respond when I call her or e-mail her, and she goes to pains to explain some position I don't like. How is she trying to represent you where you live?

How is calling her or by implication me, stupid, or arrogant even true?

You still there? You seem to have a stereotype view of Liberals. I'm a proud Liberal, and I believe in my values. I believe in helping people, the working man, protecting our environment, equal rights, civil rights, clean government, etc..does this make me stupid or arrogant?

I live in the swamp, Pilgrim, I have a little, $50.00 TV from Walmart, on a good day I can pull out a radio station from town, on my little Radio Shack rig, from Jacksonville, or somewhere fooking else!
Who the fook is Ed Schultz? Can Ed tell me how to skin a squirrel, and cook it, better than what I already know?
Sure thing friend, you may just be a "left coaster", but, all your issues just may not matter in this swamp!
I thought we were discussing just how regional arrogance is fooking up the party, and damned if you don't show up, just in time, with another load of regional arrogance! Why the hell do I need enemies, hell, I have you!
Arrogance=dishonest=elitist "expletive deleted", if the shoe fits, wear it!
We pretend to believe in democracy, why the fook are we so goddamn driven by the antidemocratic, elitist, royalist bastards?
Someone needs to tell me of the difference between Diane Fienstien, and, Marie, "let them eat cake", Antoinette.
Best you stay in town, if you ever got caught out in the real world, you might not do so well.

No but he can tell you how to skin and filet a fish. I did not know you live in a swamp. You want to make enemies? How am I your enemy? You don't even know me.

You talk about your values of neighborliness, people helping each other, but you come off as pretty hostile. Maybe you got your reasons, I don't know. When did Diane Feinstein ever come off as Marie Antoinette? What did she ever do to you?

You're not gonna believe a word I say are you? So be it! I don't like being insulted, anymore than you do. Strange how we often act the way we say we hate!

I'm going to ask a dumb question. Why is gun control bad? Maybe country folk don't like "elitists" telling them what to do, but don't most people in the U.S. support some restrictions on gun sales and ownership?

You're right it's a dumb question. But I'll try to answer it in spite of my "regional arrogance".

All you've got to do is listen to wealthy Right Wing Corporate Radio & TV shills pretending they're "jest plain folk" for years on end 24/7 until you believe them.

Truth is they don't give a rats' ass about the people they are talking to, just as long as they can convince them to vote their way. Country folk I've met are not stupid, they know more about living close to the earth than most other Americans, and after all if you believe in "survival of the fittest", that makes them smarter than most other people according to nature.

But Albert Einstein would believe those high priced snake oil salesmen if that's all he heard day in day out. Don't matter what the truth is, it's "Garbage in, Garbage out!

That's my take.

Maybe I didn't specifically answer your question. I am a bit angry. The rest of the truth is that people in the big cities have other concerns than those that live in rural America, and they support gun control there because they see the problems caused by "loose guns" on the street.

Country folk don't have the same problems, and see the arguements the city folk make as threatening them and their way of life.

Of course this is helped along by the Corporate shills lies, and by the Big City Dems ignorance!

That's more or less the whole truth, beamer. Best as I can see it.

Feinstein is a senate representative from California, and she has a constituency there. She also has sway over what we as a nation do, and her legislation effects us all.
She is on record as to her idea of gun control, and it runs counter to mine and the 2nd. Amendment. I believe that she is in violation of her oath in this matter, just the same as Bush in the matter of Iraq. I would even go as far to say that both could have been charged with treason in another day.

And so you construe her support of the AWB, that was not overturned by the SC, as infringing on the 2nd Amendment? If so, then to extend that logic, any representative who opposed your right to possess nuclear weapons should also be charged with Treason?

Familiarize yourself with the history of the Second before you make a silly comment.

Don't have time to become that familiar with the history. But before you beat me into pemmicKin (spelling) why don't you answer me this? When the founding fathers wrote the second, do you think they envisioned automatic, or even clip loaded single shot rifles?

I don't think they thought that technology and inovation would stand still..do you?

Explain to me what you think gun control should consist of that is not already in force, and why.

Theoretically? I'd say that you should not possess a weapon that can very quickly inflict mass death on your fellow citizens in the community, before they can react and shoot you down.

Why? guess?

As to their envisioning technological advancement? I'd guess they did, so they allowed for reasonable change of their document through the amendment process.

Are we speaking of a fully automatic gun (machine gun)?...A semi-automatic?