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Kra/Lee
I think Lyndie Englund was used by the upper echelon of military personel (who were actually responsible.) I was appalled that she was prosecuted so seemingly entirely alone. She obviously looks like she was born with a mentally challenged handicap. I have heard of many kids like her taken into the Army, promised glory from their recruiter. At any rate, I think she is getting a raw deal. She's as innocent as any mentally challenged person who is duped into doing something wrong by her superiors and probably told she would be popular with her peers. These kind of kids are so starved for affection and friends they would do anything for it. They can be convinced it is right.
starrygalore
Her case got thrown out the first time because her superior (and boyfriend at the time) testified that she did what he told her to do. Thus, it contradicted her plea and the judge threw it out.

I firmly believe she was set up to take the fall. I think they all were.
david sobien
So where are the intelligence agents who directed this activity? CIA, Military intelligence? No word on them? What abbout General Miller? He directed this stuff to occur. They would point upwards if confronted. No chance we would see them in court.
lazyboy
There is this culture of impunity over BushCo. Always the unqualified and overstretched people at the bottom get to pay the price. Accountability and responsibility - huh - Mr Bush collects a big salary for getting other people into trouble. He would not know responsibility or honor if it knocked him over.
graham4anything
Yes.
Donald Rumsfeld should be tried for crimes of humanity in the Hague
and tossed in the clink for the rest of his miserable life.
The buck stop at the top.
And a few years for all who participated. So it doesn't happen again.
Marine
Anytime you have a lower level enlisted person (E-5 and below) get into this kind of trouble someone failed from above.

I'll be honest, in my opinion, this trooper should not have been prosecuted at the level she was prosecuted at. I would have opted for something like NJP and pumped her for all the information she had concerning Staff NCOs and junior Officer's above her.

If the folks above her didn't know what was going on they are negligent and negligence can't be swept under a rug, next time somebody being negligent might get somebody killed.
lazyboy
Mr Marine, you surprise me, pleasantly. clap.gif
Frenchy
QUOTE(Marine @ Sep 29 2005, 09:01 AM)
Anytime you have a lower level enlisted person (E-5 and below) get into this kind of trouble someone failed from above. 

I'll be honest, in my opinion, this trooper should not have been prosecuted at the level she was prosecuted at.  I would have opted for something like NJP and pumped her for all the information she had concerning Staff NCOs and junior Officer's above her.

If the folks above her didn't know what was going on they are negligent and negligence can't be swept under a rug, next time somebody being negligent might get somebody killed.
*


Couldn't agree more. Obviously there is culpability on her part, but they did not address the root problem of chain of command.
dennisjames
I believe there was an order that came from the TOP to do whatever it takes to get information from these people.
rox63
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2005/092905.html

QUOTE
'Frog-Marching' Bush to the Hague

By Robert Parry
September 29, 2005

Federal authorities “frog-marched” Private Lynndie England in handcuffs and shackles off to prison to serve three years for her role in abusing and humiliating Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison.

The 22-year-old single mother from West Virginia joins a group of nine reservists punished for mistreating Iraqis, some of whom were stripped naked and forced to pose in mock sexual positions. England appeared in photos, pointing at a prisoner’s penis and holding a naked Iraqi by a leash.

While England’s punishment fits with George W. Bush’s pledge to prosecute military personnel for wrongdoing in Iraq, a larger question is whether low-ranking soldiers are becoming scapegoats for the bloody fiasco that Bush created when he ordered the invasion in defiance of international law. Pumped-up by Bush’s false claims linking Iraq to the Sept. 11 terror attacks, U.S. soldiers charged into that Arab country with revenge on their minds.

In a healthy democracy, the debate might be less about imprisoning England and other “grunts” than whether Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and other war architects should be “frog-marched” to the Hague for prosecution as war criminals.

The international community also has largely shied away from the issue of Bush’s criminality, apparently because of the unprecedented military might of the United States.

If the leaders of a less powerful nation had invaded a country under false pretenses – touching off a war that left tens of thousands of civilians dead – there surely would be demands for war crimes prosecutions before the International Criminal Court at the Hague. But not for Bush and his War Cabinet.

Similar Complaints

Ironically, Lynndie England’s sentencing at Fort Hood, Texas, on Sept. 27 came as new evidence surfaced that the abuse of Iraqi prisoners was not just the work of some deviant prison guards on the night shift at Abu Ghraib. Army Capt. Ian Fishback and two sergeants alleged that prisoners were subjected to similar treatment by the 82nd Airborne at a camp near Fallujah and that senior officers knew. [See Human Rights Watch report.]

Fishback blamed the pattern of abuse on the Bush administration’s vague orders about when and how Geneva Convention protections applied to detainees, a problem that has extended from the prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to a network of shadowy U.S. prisons around the world.

“We did not set the conditions for our soldiers to succeed,” said Fishback, 26, who has served tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. “We failed to set clear standards, communicate those standards and enforce those standards.” [NYT, Sept. 28, 2005]

And in another case of apparent deterioration of discipline among U.S. troops in Iraq, a separate Army investigation examined whether some U.S. troops traded gruesome photos of dead bodies – with captions like “Cooked Iraqi” – for access to a pornographic Web site specializing in sexual images of wives and girlfriends. [NYT, Sept. 28, 2005]

For his part, Bush has condemned the misconduct of Lynndie England and her cohorts. After publication of the Abu Ghraib photos in 2004, Bush said he “shared a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated.” Bush added that “their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people.”
Wanton Death

But the cavalier treatment toward Iraqi lives can be traced back to the very start of the war. Determined to invade Iraq, Bush brushed aside international objections, prevented the completion of a United Nations search for alleged Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and unleashed his “shock and awe” bombing campaign on March 19, 2003.

Bush and his high command authorized the bombing of one Baghdad restaurant – where civilians were having dinner – because of shaky intelligence that Saddam Hussein might be eating there, too. The logic apparently was that the goal of killing Hussein justified the slaughter of the innocent restaurant clientele.

As it turned out, Hussein was not there, but the attack killed 14 civilians, including seven children. One mother collapsed when rescue workers pulled the severed head of her daughter out of the rubble.

In another U.S. bombing raid, Saad Abbas, 34, was wounded, but his family sought to shield him from the greater horror. The bombing had killed his three daughters – Marwa, 11; Tabarek, 8; and Safia, 5 – who had been the center of his life.

“It wasn’t just ordinary love,” his wife said. “He was crazy about them. It wasn’t like other fathers.” [NYT, April 14, 2003]

The horror of the war was captured, too, in the fate of 12-year-old Ali Ismaeel Abbas, who lost his two arms when a U.S. missile struck his Baghdad home. Ali’s father, Ali’s pregnant mother and his siblings were all killed.

As he was evacuated to a Kuwaiti hospital, becoming a symbol of U.S. compassion for injured Iraqi civilians, Ali said he would rather die than live without his hands.

The slaughter extended to the battlefield where the outmatched Iraqi army sometimes fought heroically though hopelessly against the technologically superior U.S. forces. Christian Science Monitor reporter Ann Scott Tyson interviewed U.S. troops with the 3rd Infantry Division who were deeply troubled by their task of mowing down Iraqi soldiers who kept fighting even in suicidal situations.

“For lack of a better word, I felt almost guilty about the massacre,” one soldier said privately. “We wasted a lot of people. It makes you wonder how many were innocent. It takes away some of the pride. We won, but at what cost?”

Commenting upon the annihilation of Iraqi forces in these one-sided battles, Lt. Col. Woody Radcliffe said, “We didn’t want to do this. Even a brain-dead moron can understand we are so vastly superior militarily that there is no hope. You would think they would see that and give up.”

In one battle around Najaf, U.S. commanders ordered air strikes to kill the Iraqis en masse rather than have U.S. soldiers continue to kill them one by one.

“There were waves and waves of people coming at (the U.S. troops) with AK-47s, out of this factory, and (the U.S. troops) were killing everyone,” Radcliffe said. “The commander called and said, ‘This is not right. This is insane. Let’s hit the factory with close air support and take them out all at once.’” [Christian Science Monitor, April 11, 2003]

Jittery Troops

Three weeks into the invasion, Hussein’s government collapsed, but Bush’s occupation plan left U.S. forces stretched thin as they tried to establish order.

Sometimes, jittery U.S. soldiers opened fire on demonstrations, inflicting civilian casualties and embittering the population. In Fallujah, some 17 Iraqis were gunned down in demonstrations after U.S. soldiers claimed they had been fired upon. Fallujah soon became a center of anti-American resistance.

As the Iraqi insurgency began to spread – and Americans began dying in larger numbers – military intelligence officers encouraged prison guards to soften up captured Iraqis by putting them in stress positions for long periods of time, denying sleep and subjecting them to extremes of hot and cold.

Some of the poorly trained prison personnel – like those on Lynndie England’s night shift at Abu Ghraib – added some of their own bizarre ideas for humiliating captured Iraqis. But even some of those strange techniques, such as adorning Iraqi men with women’s underwear, could be traced to practices used elsewhere.

The mistreatment of detainees further fueled the insurgency and spread anti-Americanism across the Middle East and around the globe.

Back in Washington, the Bush administration claimed that the prisoner abuses were the work of a few “bad apples” who would be singled out for punishment. Looked at differently, however, Bush opened U.S. soldiers to a kind of double jeopardy when he ordered the invasion.

Not only did the soldiers risk their lives in combat, but they faced added legal risks in trying to execute a war in defiance of the UN Charter, which prohibits one country from attacking another without the approval of the UN Security Council.

The evidence is now clear, too, that Bush rushed the nation to war without UN sanction, in part, because his rationalizations about WMD and Iraq’s ties to al-Qaeda were falling apart, even as he was determined to make the war happen.

As British spy chief Richard Dearlove observed in the so-called Downing Street Memo in July 2002, “Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.”

The memo added, “The case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran.”

War Fever

Still, the Bush administration was confident that it could whip the U.S. news media and the American people into a war fever.

To stir up fears about nuclear bombs falling into the hands of terrorists, the administration leaked to the New York Times a story about Iraq buying aluminum tubes for making nuclear weapons. But U.S. nuclear experts soon concluded that the tubes actually were for conventional rockets.

Later in 2002, administration officials insisted that they knew where Iraq’s WMD stockpiles were. But UN inspectors, who were readmitted by Hussein as part of Iraq’s agreement to comply with international weapons restrictions, were finding nothing at the U.S.-identified sites.

In January 2003, Bush’s predicament got so desperate that his State of the Union speechwriters dug down to the bottom of the barrel to pull out an already discredited claim about Iraq seeking enriched uranium in Africa.

Then, in a Feb. 5, 2003, speech to the UN Security Council, Secretary of State Colin Powell played up assertions from a dubious source codenamed “Curveball” about Iraq’s supposed mobile WMD labs. Powell also read a doctored intercept between two Iraqi officials that made an innocent conversation sound sinister. [For details, see Consortiumnews.com’s “Powell’s Widening Credibility Gap.”]

Instead of giving the UN inspectors more time to complete their search for Iraqi WMD, Bush cut short the mission, forcing them to leave Iraq so the invasion could proceed.

Several months later, as Bush faced new questions about his war justifications, the president started a new lie, claiming that Hussein had never let the UN inspectors in.

On July 14, 2003, Bush said about Hussein, “we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn’t let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power.”

In the following months, Bush repeated this claim in slightly varied forms. On Jan. 27, 2004, Bush said, “We went to the United Nations, of course, and got an overwhelming resolution – 1441 – unanimous resolution, that said to Saddam, you must disclose and destroy your weapons programs, which obviously meant the world felt he had such programs. He chose defiance. It was his choice to make, and he did not let us in.”

Blind Journalists

Though the U.S. national press corps had witnessed the UN inspections of Iraq and certainly knew that Bush’s historical revisionism was false, American reporters failed, repeatedly, to challenge Bush’s account.

Even ABC’s veteran newsman Ted Koppel fell for the administration’s spin, using it to explain why he – Koppel – thought the invasion was justified.

“It did not make logical sense that Saddam Hussein, whose armies had been defeated once before by the United States and the Coalition, would be prepared to lose control over his country if all he had to do was say, ‘All right, UN, come on in, check it out,” Koppel said in an interview with Amy Goodman, host of “Democracy Now.”

As Koppel obviously was aware, Hussein indeed had told the UN to “come on in, check it out,” but even prominent journalists were ready to put on blinders for Bush. [For details, see Consortiumnews.com’s “President Bush, With the Candlestick …”]

In 2004, Fallujah was back in the news after Iraqi insurgents killed four American security contractors and a mob mutilated the bodies. Bush ordered Marines to “pacify” the city of 300,000 people.

The U.S. assault on Fallujah transformed one soccer field into a mass grave for hundreds of Iraqis – many of them civilians – killed when U.S. forces bombarded the rebellious city with 500-pound bombs and raked its streets with cannon and machine-gun fire. According to some accounts, more than 800 citizens of Fallujah died in the assault and 60,000 fled as refugees.

In attacking Fallujah and in other counterinsurgency operations, the Bush administration again has resorted to measures that some critics argue amount to war crimes. These tactics include administering collective punishment against the civilian population in Fallujah, rounding up thousands of young Iraqi men on the flimsiest of suspicions and holding prisoners incommunicado without charges and subjecting some detainees to physical mistreatment.

Rape Rooms
Even Bush’s boast that he closed Hussein’s torture chambers and “rape rooms” has lost its moral clarity.

A 53-page classified Army report, written by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba, revealed that some of those abuses resumed as U.S. intelligence officers urged Abu Ghraib’s military police to break down Iraqis before interrogation.

The report said the abuses, occurring from October to December 2003, included use of a chemical light or broomstick to sexually assault one Iraqi. Witnesses also told Army investigators that prisoners were beaten and threatened with rape, electrocution and dog attacks. At least one Iraqi died during interrogation.

“Numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees,” said Taguba’s report. [See The New Yorker's May 10, 2004,  issue.]

One victim who faced torture at Abu Ghraib under both Saddam Hussein’s regime and the U.S. occupation said the physical abuse from Hussein's guards was preferable to the sexual humiliation employed by the Americans. Dhia al-Shweiri told the Associated Press that the Americans were trying “to break our pride.” [USA Today, May 3, 2004]
Yet, as the U.S. military death toll heads toward 2,000 and Iraqis die in far greater numbers, the U.S. news media continues to avert its gaze from what should be a central question: Should senior Bush administration officials most responsible for this bloody debacle join Lynndie England in the dock of accountability?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Secrecy & Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq, can be ordered at secrecyandprivilege.com. It's also available at Amazon.com, as is his 1999 book, Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth.'
Istoodforu
QUOTE(Kra/Lee @ Sep 28 2005, 07:20 PM)
I think Lyndie Englund was used by the upper echelon of military personel (who were actually responsible.) I was appalled that she was prosecuted so seemingly entirely alone. She obviously looks like she was born with a mentally challenged handicap. I have heard of many kids like her taken into the Army, promised glory from their recruiter. At any rate, I think she is getting a raw deal. She's as innocent as any mentally challenged person who is duped into doing something wrong by her superiors and probably told she would be popular with her peers. These kind of kids are so starved for affection and friends they would do anything for it. They can be convinced it is right.
*


What does someone with a mentally challenged handicap look like??? What a bunch of psychobabble!!! 85% of all people diagnosed as retarded are only mildly retarded and mildly retarded people usually don't look any different than the rest of us.

I don't think Lyndie has any mental handicap. She probably comes from a poor family that hasn't had much education. Duty in Iraq probably went a lot easier for her when she was having a love affair with another soldier. She probably wasn't doing anything more wrong than other personnel including officers and interrogators. The climate in her organization very much supported her behavior. Her downfall was that she was a photogenic boy toy.

Her behavior certainly doesn't merit an honorable discharge, but 3 years of hard time when no officers have yet to appear before a courts-martial is blatantly unjust. Read Phillip Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Simulation.
Kra/Lee
QUOTE(Istoodforu @ Sep 29 2005, 09:30 PM)
What does someone with a mentally challenged handicap look like???  What a bunch of psychobabble!!!  85% of all people diagnosed as retarded are only mildly retarded and mildly retarded people usually don't look any different than the rest of us.

I don't think Lyndie has any mental handicap.  She probably comes from a poor family that hasn't had much education.  Duty in Iraq probably went a lot easier for her when she was having a love affair with another soldier.  She probably wasn't doing anything more wrong than other personnel including officers and interrogators.  The climate in her organization very much supported her behavior.  Her downfall was that she was a photogenic boy toy.

Her behavior certainly doesn't merit an honorable discharge, but 3 years of hard time when no officers have yet to appear before a courts-martial is blatantly unjust.  Read Phillip Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Simulation.
*


I've worked all my life with mentally challenged kids. She looks even walks like one. My own daughter is mentally challenged and I could pick someone like her out of the woodwork. You could tell these kids to do anything under the pretense that they were spys helping their country and they would do it.
My own daughter went before a judge because some kids told her to buy them some booze and they would be her life long friend. She did. She would do anything for anyone if it would mean having a friend. I'm sure this young girl would too. All it takes is some smooth talking guy to tell her a lie and show her some attention and that's it as good as done. All her life, my daughter has been taken advantage of. All because they are innocent minded. Recruiters are very good at recruiting these type of people into the service.
real_democrat
http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn10012005.html

QUOTE
Scot-free go those who inherited a secret system of torture that goes back decades and who ensured that its relentless and widening application would soon bring the practice to light. The framers of the policy go free. The lawyers who gave torture its new garb of legality plump themselves down in richly endowed chairs at our most esteemed law schools or are rewarded with seats on the Supreme Court. The senior military officers, who ordered the use of dogs, isolation cells smeared with filth, water-boards and other techniques designed to drive their captives mad, have escaped all sanction, except for the eloquent reproofs of Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba. The lumpen intellectuals, like Jonathan Alter and Alan Dershowitz, who clamored for torture need fear no indictment or downtime on the cable networks.
Pegatha
QUOTE(Kra/Lee @ Oct 2 2005, 03:31 PM)
I've worked all my life with mentally challenged kids. She looks even walks like one. My own daughter is mentally challenged and I could pick someone like her out of the woodwork.  You could tell these kids to do anything under the pretense that they were spys helping their country and they would do it.
My own daughter went before a judge because some kids told her to buy them some booze and they would be her life long friend. She did. She would do anything for anyone if it would mean  having a friend.  I'm sure this young girl would too.  All it takes is some smooth talking guy to tell her a lie and show her some attention and that's it as good as done. All her life, my daughter has been taken advantage of. All because they are innocent minded.  Recruiters are very good at recruiting these type of people into the service.
*


There is much about your post with which I agree (which I believe would be a first), but I can't help but believe that her attorneys would be all over it if this were the case. The days of retarded kids going into the Army are long gone.

It's hard to get in if you don't at least have a high school diploma. Although these standards may be changing again, with the decrease in recruitment.

-Pegatha
Edie
QUOTE(Pegatha @ Oct 2 2005, 03:57 PM)
The days of retarded kids going into the Army are long gone.

It's hard to get in if you don't at least have a high school diploma.  Although these standards may be changing again, with the decrease in recruitment.

-Pegatha
*

P, think again. From Lehrer:

QUOTE
TOM BEARDEN: Some believe pressure on recruiters to meet their quotas has led to violations of Army regulations.

In Colorado, Arvada High School Senior David McSwane says he wanted to see just how desperate recruiters were so he put them to the test.

DAVID McSWANE: I was just curious, how far would they go to get one more soldier?

TOM BEARDEN: McSwane, an honors student and editorial page editor of his high school newspaper, presented himself at a local recruiting office.

McSwaneDAVID McSWANE: That's when I told him that I was a 17 year old dropout and that I have a drug addiction.

TOM BEARDEN: And what did he say?

DAVID McSWANE: He said the drug addiction wasn't a problem, that we would cross that bridge when we come to it.

TOM BEARDEN: And what did that turn out to mean?

DAVID McSWANE: That there was a way of beating a drug test, the way he knew with this stuff that he would give me, a detox drink to pass the urinalysis to get in the Army.

TOM BEARDEN: McSwane says the recruiter took him in a government vehicle to buy the drug elimination kit and also told him how to get a fake high-school diploma.

DAVID McSWANE: What my recruiter told me to do was go on the Internet, type in fake diploma and order one off the Internet, it would need to look real, have a foil seal on it, and I would need transcripts to go along with it.

The high school name he gave me, which is imaginary, was Faith Hill Baptist School. So I did that and I brought it in and he said it was good and he gave it to his superiors and they cleared it.

TOM BEARDEN: McSwane secretly taped his phone conversations with the recruiters.

tape recorderDAVID McSWANE ON TAPE: So they accepted my diploma and all that?

RECRUITER ON TAPE: Yeah, that's what they told us, so?

DAVID McSWANE ON TAPE: All right. So they don't know that it's fake or anything? I’m not going to get in trouble?

RECRUITER: Right. They won't know.

TOM BEARDEN: The Army has begun an investigation of the two soldiers involved. They have been removed from recruiting duties. Lt. Col. Jeffrey Brodeur heads Denver's Army recruiting battalion.

TOM BEARDEN: Did these allegations come out of the blue? Were they a surprise to you?

LT. COL. JEFFREY BRODEUR: They were; they were. I would not have suspected those two recruiters, I really would not have; they are good soldiers and they present themselves as good soldiers.

TOM BEARDEN: Lt. Col Brodeur says the accused recruiters never submitted McSwane's paperwork, and no one else had seen the diploma. The U.S. Army recruiting command acknowledges there were 320 substantiated cases of wrongdoing by recruiters last year, a 14 percent increase from 2003. The violations ranged from threats and coercion to false promises that the recruit would not be sent to Iraq.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/ja...iting_5-12.html

And this:

QUOTE
Although the recruitment figures are falling, the demand for military personnel remains high, leading to great pressure on military recruiters to keep the ranks supplied. This pressure has led to many reports of aggressive and unscrupulous tactics by recruiters to sign up young people, including forging high school diplomas, pursuing mentally challenged high-schoolers, and encouraging potential recruits to lie about drug use and arrests.

http://www.blackpressusa.com/news/Article....ews&NewsID=4300
lazyboy
QUOTE(Pegatha @ Oct 2 2005, 04:57 PM)
There is much about your post with which I agree (which I believe would be a first), but I can't help but believe that her attorneys would be all over it if this were the case.  The days of retarded kids going into the Army are long gone.

It's hard to get in if you don't at least have a high school diploma.  Although these standards may be changing again, with the decrease in recruitment.

-Pegatha
*



Yes, but what about people who are good at sports, but not entirely there intellectually, and get into a good college, which happens a lot in the USA I believe. Remember 'Forrest Gump', there was a lot to think about in that film, fiction though it was.

Respectfully,
Istoodforu
QUOTE(Kra/Lee @ Oct 2 2005, 02:31 PM)
I've worked all my life with mentally challenged kids. She looks even walks like one. My own daughter is mentally challenged and I could pick someone like her out of the woodwork.  You could tell these kids to do anything under the pretense that they were spys helping their country and they would do it.
My own daughter went before a judge because some kids told her to buy them some booze and they would be her life long friend. She did. She would do anything for anyone if it would mean  having a friend.  I'm sure this young girl would too.  All it takes is some smooth talking guy to tell her a lie and show her some attention and that's it as good as done. All her life, my daughter has been taken advantage of. All because they are innocent minded.  Recruiters are very good at recruiting these type of people into the service.
*


The news footage I remember seeing of Lyndie walking was when she was pregnant and in uniform. Even since she has delivered her face looks much more bloated than in the Abu Ghraib photos. Stress and public humiliation do that to people. What her appearance reminds me of is Lt. Calley when he was being court-martialed after the My Lai massacre in Vietnam.

I don't like to see psychiatric labels put on people on the basis of how they look. It's just not fair! More importantly, Philip Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Simulation dramatically demonstrated that young adults of normal intelligence, and under a lot less stress than soldiers in time of war, can let the power of their role lead them into the abuse of that power.
Edie
QUOTE(Istoodforu @ Oct 2 2005, 05:07 PM)
The news footage I remember seeing of Lyndie walking was when she was pregnant and in uniform.  Even since she has delivered her face looks much more bloated than in the Abu Ghraib photos.  Stress and public humiliation do that to people.  What her appearance reminds me of is Lt. Calley when he was being court-martialed after the My Lai massacre in Vietnam.

I don't like to see psychiatric labels put on people on the basis of how they look.  It's just not fair!  More importantly, Philip Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Simulation dramatically demonstrated that young adults of normal intelligence, and under a lot less stress than soldiers in time of war, can let the power of their role lead them into the abuse of that power.
*

Well said, Istoodforu.
wileycoyote
http://www.trivia-library.com/a/court-mart...presidio-27.htm



Lest we forget.
Kra/Lee
QUOTE(Istoodforu @ Oct 2 2005, 07:07 PM)
The news footage I remember seeing of Lyndie walking was when she was pregnant and in uniform.  Even since she has delivered her face looks much more bloated than in the Abu Ghraib photos.  Stress and public humiliation do that to people.  What her appearance reminds me of is Lt. Calley when he was being court-martialed after the My Lai massacre in Vietnam.

I don't like to see psychiatric labels put on people on the basis of how they look.  It's just not fair!  More importantly, Philip Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Simulation dramatically demonstrated that young adults of normal intelligence, and under a lot less stress than soldiers in time of war, can let the power of their role lead them into the abuse of that power.
*


Yes. I heard her speaking in the interview on sixty minutes. She did seem intelligent but gullible. I tend to agree with you. But something strikes me that there is still something mentally wrong with her. Not retarded. I can't put my finger on it. There is something there. I had another friend that was in a bycycle accident which did effect his brain. He was light in his lofers but still could keep it together to speak fairly well (like Forest Gump), he went into the army.
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