The Senate finally did their job! In the face of a threatened veto, they passed the legislation requiring our armed forces to use the U.S. Army field manual as the standard for interrogations and prohibiting degrading and inhumane treatment of anyone in U.S. military custody. It's about time!
Supposedly, the bill has support in the House.
Senate Votes to Set Detainee Treatment Rules
By REUTERS
Published: October 5, 2005
Filed at 9:35 p.m. ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Defying President George W. Bush, the U.S. Senate voted overwhelmingly on Wednesday to regulate the Pentagon's treatment of military detainees in the wake of abuse scandals at Abu Ghraib prison and elsewhere.
The Senate voted 90-9 for a bipartisan amendment to establish rules for detainee interrogation and treatment, even though the Republican administration said the measure would tie its hands as it fights terrorism and threatened to veto a $440 billion bill to fund the Pentagon if it contained them.
The amendment from Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain, a prisoner of war in Vietnam, would establish the U.S. Army field manual as the standard for interrogations and bar degrading and inhumane treatment of anyone in U.S. military custody.
Another amendment to the defense bill the Senate was expected to consider this week would clarify the legal status of enemy combatants at the Guantanamo Bay military prison and increase congressional oversight of their detention and release.
McCain said the rules would help U.S. soldiers, who are under intense pressure to extract intelligence from prisoners but blamed when there are excesses.
``I can understand why some administration lawyers might want ambiguity, so that every hypothetical option is theoretically open,'' McCain said. But he said U.S. soldiers are ''crying out for clarity'' and ``Congress cannot shrink from this duty, we cannot hide our heads.''
Jabbing at the administration in which he served, retired four-star general and former Secretary of State Colin Powell backed McCain's amendment, which he said in a letter would ''help deal with the terrible public diplomacy crisis created by Abu Ghraib.''
Lawmakers from both parties have said the abuses of prisoners in Iraq and reported mistreatment of prisoners elsewhere stemmed from the administration's murky policies.
The Pentagon has blamed the Abu Ghraib abuses on a few rogue soldiers and produced reports from several of its own investigations that showed no wrong-doing at top levels.
REPAIRING U.S. IMAGE
McCain and Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John Warner, a Virginia Republican who backed the measures, said the White House views them as an intrusion on its authority. Vice President Dick Cheney pressed for the amendments to be dropped when they were first brought up in July.
But the senators said the measures only codify what the administration largely says are its current policies against inhumane treatment of detainees.
They also said the regulations would help repair the image of the United States after the publication of photographs of sexual and physical abuse at Abu Ghraib, and help protect captured U.S. soldiers from similar treatment.
Under White House pressure, Senate Republican leaders in July withdrew a separate bill authorizing defense policies partly because it was clear the detainee measures would pass.
McCain said the administration's position has softened somewhat, and it appeared interested in working out a compromise on language to avoid a showdown on the must-pass defense spending bill. The measure also contains $50 billion in emergency funds for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
He said he was concerned the detainee regulations could be weakened or stripped from the bill when a final version is worked out in a conference with the House of Representatives.
Alaska Republican Sen. Ted Stevens, chairman of the Defense Appropriations subcommittee, said he would press for some changes in the amendment in the conference because he said it could imperil undercover operatives.
Stevens also called the amendment overly broad, saying the country was ``in a war against terrorists, and I don't think they are entitled to the same type of treatment'' as prisoners of war.
Alabama Republican Sen. Jeff Sessions opposed the amendment, saying the Pentagon has disciplined those responsible for abuse. ``It just galls me that we have people suggesting that this was a policy of our Army,'' he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/politics/po...s-congress.html
Full Version: SENATE FLOUTS BUSH On Detainee Abuse
Common Ground Common Sense > National & International News > Congress Watch > Congress Watch Archive
Now if we can get the Senate to provide an exit strategy and force Bush to execute it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9601116/
Senate votes to restrict treatment of detainees
Bush rebuffed in 90-9 vote to bar ‘cruel, inhuman or degrading’ treatment
Updated: 11:23 p.m. ET Oct. 5, 2005
WASHINGTON - The Republican-controlled Senate voted Wednesday to impose restrictions on the treatment of terrorism suspects, delivering a rare wartime rebuke to President Bush.
Defying the White House, senators voted 90-9 to approve an amendment that would prohibit the use of “cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment” against anyone in U.S. government custody, regardless of where they are held.
The amendment was added to a $440 billion military spending bill for the budget year that began Oct. 1.
The proposal, sponsored by Sen. John McCain, also requires all service members to follow procedures in the Army Field Manual when they detain and interrogate terrorism suspects.
Bush administration officials say the legislation would limit the president’s authority and flexibility in war.
But lawmakers from each party have said Congress must provide U.S. troops with clear standards for detaining, interrogating and prosecuting terrorism suspects in light of allegations of mistreatment at Guantanamo Bay and the abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
“We demanded intelligence without ever clearly telling our troops what was permitted and what was forbidden. And when things went wrong, we blamed them and we punished them,” said McCain, a prisoner of war in Vietnam.
“Our troops are not served by ambiguity. They are crying out for clarity, and Congress cannot shrink from this duty,” said McCain, R-Ariz.
The Senate was expected to vote on the overall spending bill by weeks’ end. The House-approved version of it does not include the detainee provisions. It is unclear how much support the measure has in the GOP-run House.
Leading Democrat backs McCain bill
Rep. John Murtha of Pennsylvania, the top Democrat on the House Appropriations subcommittee on defense, is supporting McCain’s legislation. Murtha could prove a powerful ally when House and Senate negotiators meet to reconcile differences in their bills.
The confrontation by members of the president’s own party shows how reluctant some lawmakers are to give him unchecked wartime power as the conflict in Iraq drags on and U.S. casualties mount.
It also comes as the president seeks to show strength after weeks in which his approval rating plummeted, with Americans questioning the direction of the war, the sluggish federal response to Hurricane Katrina and the upsurge in gas prices.
Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, said he was concerned that McCain’s legislation could inadvertently endanger the lives of people who work in classified roles. He said he hoped to fix the potential problems during negotiations with the House.
“There are some changes that have to be made if we are going to be faithful to those people who live in the classified world,” Stevens said.
With limits on U.S. interrogation techniques, Stevens said there is a legitimate fear that “custody will go to the other nationalities involved in the team. And we’ll have no control.”
Also pending is an amendment by Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., that would distinguish between a “lawful enemy combatant” and an “unlawful enemy combatant.” His proposal would put into law the procedures for prosecuting them at the Navy’s Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba.
Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, a retired four-star Army general, endorsed McCain’s effort.
“The world will note that America is making a clear statement with respect to the expected future behavior of our soldiers. Such a reaction will help deal with the terrible public diplomacy crisis created by Abu Ghraib,” Powell said in a letter that McCain read on the Senate floor.
‘We have let the troops down’
Republican supporters say that U.S. troops interrogating terrorism suspects do not know which techniques are allowed.
“We have let the troops down when it comes to trying to give them guidance in very stressful situations,” said Graham, an Air Force judge for 20 years.
But Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., said the legislation is unnecessary. “We do not have a system of systematic abuse of prisoners going on by our United States military,” he said.
The White House has said Bush advisers would recommend the president veto the entire bill over the legislation. But a veto is considered highly unlikely given that Bush has never used that power.
Also, scrapping a measure that provides money for pay raises, benefits, equipment and weapons for troops while the country is fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would open the president to a flood of criticism.
More on link...
Senate votes to restrict treatment of detainees
Bush rebuffed in 90-9 vote to bar ‘cruel, inhuman or degrading’ treatment
Updated: 11:23 p.m. ET Oct. 5, 2005
WASHINGTON - The Republican-controlled Senate voted Wednesday to impose restrictions on the treatment of terrorism suspects, delivering a rare wartime rebuke to President Bush.
Defying the White House, senators voted 90-9 to approve an amendment that would prohibit the use of “cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment” against anyone in U.S. government custody, regardless of where they are held.
The amendment was added to a $440 billion military spending bill for the budget year that began Oct. 1.
The proposal, sponsored by Sen. John McCain, also requires all service members to follow procedures in the Army Field Manual when they detain and interrogate terrorism suspects.
Bush administration officials say the legislation would limit the president’s authority and flexibility in war.
But lawmakers from each party have said Congress must provide U.S. troops with clear standards for detaining, interrogating and prosecuting terrorism suspects in light of allegations of mistreatment at Guantanamo Bay and the abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
“We demanded intelligence without ever clearly telling our troops what was permitted and what was forbidden. And when things went wrong, we blamed them and we punished them,” said McCain, a prisoner of war in Vietnam.
“Our troops are not served by ambiguity. They are crying out for clarity, and Congress cannot shrink from this duty,” said McCain, R-Ariz.
The Senate was expected to vote on the overall spending bill by weeks’ end. The House-approved version of it does not include the detainee provisions. It is unclear how much support the measure has in the GOP-run House.
Leading Democrat backs McCain bill
Rep. John Murtha of Pennsylvania, the top Democrat on the House Appropriations subcommittee on defense, is supporting McCain’s legislation. Murtha could prove a powerful ally when House and Senate negotiators meet to reconcile differences in their bills.
The confrontation by members of the president’s own party shows how reluctant some lawmakers are to give him unchecked wartime power as the conflict in Iraq drags on and U.S. casualties mount.
It also comes as the president seeks to show strength after weeks in which his approval rating plummeted, with Americans questioning the direction of the war, the sluggish federal response to Hurricane Katrina and the upsurge in gas prices.
Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, said he was concerned that McCain’s legislation could inadvertently endanger the lives of people who work in classified roles. He said he hoped to fix the potential problems during negotiations with the House.
“There are some changes that have to be made if we are going to be faithful to those people who live in the classified world,” Stevens said.
With limits on U.S. interrogation techniques, Stevens said there is a legitimate fear that “custody will go to the other nationalities involved in the team. And we’ll have no control.”
Also pending is an amendment by Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., that would distinguish between a “lawful enemy combatant” and an “unlawful enemy combatant.” His proposal would put into law the procedures for prosecuting them at the Navy’s Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba.
Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, a retired four-star Army general, endorsed McCain’s effort.
“The world will note that America is making a clear statement with respect to the expected future behavior of our soldiers. Such a reaction will help deal with the terrible public diplomacy crisis created by Abu Ghraib,” Powell said in a letter that McCain read on the Senate floor.
‘We have let the troops down’
Republican supporters say that U.S. troops interrogating terrorism suspects do not know which techniques are allowed.
“We have let the troops down when it comes to trying to give them guidance in very stressful situations,” said Graham, an Air Force judge for 20 years.
But Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., said the legislation is unnecessary. “We do not have a system of systematic abuse of prisoners going on by our United States military,” he said.
The White House has said Bush advisers would recommend the president veto the entire bill over the legislation. But a veto is considered highly unlikely given that Bush has never used that power.
Also, scrapping a measure that provides money for pay raises, benefits, equipment and weapons for troops while the country is fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would open the president to a flood of criticism.
More on link...
This is the first time I've felt proud of my country in over 4 years.
October 6, 2005
Senate Moves to Protect Military Prisoners Despite Veto Threat
By ERIC SCHMITT
WASHINGTON, Oct. 5 - In a sharp rebuke to the White House, the Senate overwhelmingly agreed Wednesday to regulate the detention, interrogation and treatment of prisoners held by the American military.
The measure ignited a fierce debate among many Senate Republicans and the White House, which threatened to veto a $440 billion military spending bill if the detention amendment was tacked on, saying it would bind the president's hands in wartime. Nonetheless, the measure passed, 90 to 9, with 46 Republicans, including Bill Frist of Tennessee, the majority leader, joining 43 Democrats and one independent in favor.
More than two dozen retired senior military officers, including Colin L. Powell and John M. Shalikashvili, two former chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, endorsed the amendment, which would ban use of "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" against anyone in United States government custody.
It would also require all American troops to use only interrogation techniques authorized in a new Army field manual. It would not cover techniques used by the Central Intelligence Agency.
Republicans and Democrats took to the Senate floor on Wednesday in a passionate debate over the measure, which supporters said would clarify a jumble of conflicting standards and cast a new spotlight on the treatment of detainees at American prisons in Afghanistan, Iraq and Cuba. "Confusion about the rules results in abuses in the field," said Senator John McCain, an Arizona Republican and the measure's main sponsor. "We need a clear, consistent standard."
Mr. McCain, who was a prisoner of war in the Vietnam War, added in closing Wednesday night: "Many of my comrades were subjected to very cruel, very inhumane and degrading treatment, a few of them even unto death. But every one of us - every single one of us - knew and took great strength from the belief that we were different from our enemies."
Senator Lamar Alexander, a Tennessee Republican, questioned why the White House would oppose a measure that codifies military procedures and policies, and reaffirms a ban against torturing detainees. "It is time for Congress, which represents the people, to clarify and set the rules for detention and interrogation of our enemies," he said.
Opposing the effort, Senator Ted Stevens, Republican of Alaska, said that requiring American troops to follow procedures in the Army manual was not practical in the current war environment. "The techniques vary upon the circumstances and the physical location of people involved," Mr. Stevens said
The measure faces stiff opposition in the House. And the White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, said, "If it's presented, then there would be a recommendation of a veto." Armed with the strong Senate vote, however, Mr. McCain is expected to keep the pressure on in the public arena and when the spending bill goes to a House-Senate conference committee.
Mr. McCain and Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina offered the same proposal during the summer as the Senate was working on a bill setting Pentagon policy. But Mr. Frist scuttled that legislation in part because of White House opposition.
In July, the White House dispatched Vice President Dick Cheney to Capitol Hill to lobby Senators McCain, Graham and John W. Warner of Virginia personally. This week, White House officials not only pressured Mr. McCain to modify his measure, but also approached sympathetic Senate Republicans to work against the amendment.
The Senate vote drew applause from human rights organizations. "Senator McCain's amendments are a key step toward the restoration of the military's traditional prohibition against torture and inhumane treatment," said Leonard S. Rubenstein, executive director of Physicians for Human Rights.
The vote came two weeks after the Army began an inquiry into new allegations of prisoner abuse in Iraq in 2003 and 2004 by members of a battalion of the 82nd Airborne Division. Three former members of the unit who have come forward have said many American troops who interrogated detainees did not know which techniques were permitted.
As the debate over detainees and Pentagon policy proceeded, senior Senate Democrats pressed the Bush administration Wednesday to lay out a detailed strategy for the war as Iraqis prepare to vote next week on a constitution. "It's simply time for some accountability," said Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, the senior Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee.
In a letter to the president, Mr. Biden and other Democrats asked Mr. Bush a series of pointed questions: How many Iraqi forces can operate without United States assistance? What specific steps is the administration taking around the referendum to reconcile Iraq division? What is being done to attract more international support to stabilize Iraq? How should the public assess progress?
"In times past, when asked to explain your Iraq policy to our troops and the American people, you have chosen to reply that we need to 'stay the course,' " the letter said. "But simply staying the current course is not a strategy for success."
Carl Hulse contributed reporting for this article.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/06/politics...agewanted=print
Senate Moves to Protect Military Prisoners Despite Veto Threat
By ERIC SCHMITT
WASHINGTON, Oct. 5 - In a sharp rebuke to the White House, the Senate overwhelmingly agreed Wednesday to regulate the detention, interrogation and treatment of prisoners held by the American military.
The measure ignited a fierce debate among many Senate Republicans and the White House, which threatened to veto a $440 billion military spending bill if the detention amendment was tacked on, saying it would bind the president's hands in wartime. Nonetheless, the measure passed, 90 to 9, with 46 Republicans, including Bill Frist of Tennessee, the majority leader, joining 43 Democrats and one independent in favor.
More than two dozen retired senior military officers, including Colin L. Powell and John M. Shalikashvili, two former chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, endorsed the amendment, which would ban use of "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" against anyone in United States government custody.
It would also require all American troops to use only interrogation techniques authorized in a new Army field manual. It would not cover techniques used by the Central Intelligence Agency.
Republicans and Democrats took to the Senate floor on Wednesday in a passionate debate over the measure, which supporters said would clarify a jumble of conflicting standards and cast a new spotlight on the treatment of detainees at American prisons in Afghanistan, Iraq and Cuba. "Confusion about the rules results in abuses in the field," said Senator John McCain, an Arizona Republican and the measure's main sponsor. "We need a clear, consistent standard."
Mr. McCain, who was a prisoner of war in the Vietnam War, added in closing Wednesday night: "Many of my comrades were subjected to very cruel, very inhumane and degrading treatment, a few of them even unto death. But every one of us - every single one of us - knew and took great strength from the belief that we were different from our enemies."
Senator Lamar Alexander, a Tennessee Republican, questioned why the White House would oppose a measure that codifies military procedures and policies, and reaffirms a ban against torturing detainees. "It is time for Congress, which represents the people, to clarify and set the rules for detention and interrogation of our enemies," he said.
Opposing the effort, Senator Ted Stevens, Republican of Alaska, said that requiring American troops to follow procedures in the Army manual was not practical in the current war environment. "The techniques vary upon the circumstances and the physical location of people involved," Mr. Stevens said
The measure faces stiff opposition in the House. And the White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, said, "If it's presented, then there would be a recommendation of a veto." Armed with the strong Senate vote, however, Mr. McCain is expected to keep the pressure on in the public arena and when the spending bill goes to a House-Senate conference committee.
Mr. McCain and Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina offered the same proposal during the summer as the Senate was working on a bill setting Pentagon policy. But Mr. Frist scuttled that legislation in part because of White House opposition.
In July, the White House dispatched Vice President Dick Cheney to Capitol Hill to lobby Senators McCain, Graham and John W. Warner of Virginia personally. This week, White House officials not only pressured Mr. McCain to modify his measure, but also approached sympathetic Senate Republicans to work against the amendment.
The Senate vote drew applause from human rights organizations. "Senator McCain's amendments are a key step toward the restoration of the military's traditional prohibition against torture and inhumane treatment," said Leonard S. Rubenstein, executive director of Physicians for Human Rights.
The vote came two weeks after the Army began an inquiry into new allegations of prisoner abuse in Iraq in 2003 and 2004 by members of a battalion of the 82nd Airborne Division. Three former members of the unit who have come forward have said many American troops who interrogated detainees did not know which techniques were permitted.
As the debate over detainees and Pentagon policy proceeded, senior Senate Democrats pressed the Bush administration Wednesday to lay out a detailed strategy for the war as Iraqis prepare to vote next week on a constitution. "It's simply time for some accountability," said Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, the senior Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee.
In a letter to the president, Mr. Biden and other Democrats asked Mr. Bush a series of pointed questions: How many Iraqi forces can operate without United States assistance? What specific steps is the administration taking around the referendum to reconcile Iraq division? What is being done to attract more international support to stabilize Iraq? How should the public assess progress?
"In times past, when asked to explain your Iraq policy to our troops and the American people, you have chosen to reply that we need to 'stay the course,' " the letter said. "But simply staying the current course is not a strategy for success."
Carl Hulse contributed reporting for this article.
Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company Home Privacy Policy Search Corrections XML Help Contact Us Work for Us Site Map Back to Top
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/06/politics...agewanted=print
The Senate has stood up to the President, let's make sure that the House does too. Please contact your representatives and let them know they need to support what the Senate has done!
Here's a list of the 9 pro-torture Senators:
Allard (R-CO)
Bond (R-MO)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Stevens (R-AK)
Allard (R-CO)
Bond (R-MO)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Stevens (R-AK)
McClellan said existing law already prohibits the mistreatment of prisoners in American custody, and the amendment "would limit the president's ability as commander-in-chief to effectively carry out the war on terrorism."
What?? The man thinks torture is effective?????
What?? The man thinks torture is effective?????
QUOTE(no retreat @ no surrender,Oct 5 2005, 11:05 PM)
The Senate has stood up to the President, let's make sure that the House does too. Please contact your representatives and let them know they need to support what the Senate has done!
Yes, by all means!
To that end, here's a place where you can find contact info for your reps:
http://www.house.gov/writerep/
I just finished writing my rep. Please join me.
Thanks for the link. I sent a letter to Rep. Ann Northup and called Senator McConnells office. It was the only time that I have been able to congratulate Senator McConnell on a vote!
And here's mine to my rep. Feel free to adapt it. This is really important -- we want the House, and then the world to know that we WILL NOT TOLERATE TORTURE ON OUR WATCH!
Dear Congresswoman --:
I write to urge you to support amendment of the Iraq spending bill to set standards for our military's treatment of detainees. As approved by the U.S. Senate yesterday, the measure would make interrogation techniques outlined in the Army Field Manual the standard for handling detainees in Defense Department custody, and would prohibit "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment of U.S.-held prisoners.
It is essential that the United States rejoin the world community in affirming the Geneva Conventions and the proper treatment of detainees.
Therefore, I urge you to do all in your power to move this amendment to adoption in the House.
Sincerely,
Dear Congresswoman --:
I write to urge you to support amendment of the Iraq spending bill to set standards for our military's treatment of detainees. As approved by the U.S. Senate yesterday, the measure would make interrogation techniques outlined in the Army Field Manual the standard for handling detainees in Defense Department custody, and would prohibit "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment of U.S.-held prisoners.
It is essential that the United States rejoin the world community in affirming the Geneva Conventions and the proper treatment of detainees.
Therefore, I urge you to do all in your power to move this amendment to adoption in the House.
Sincerely,
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