Imagine for a second, a child you know, maybe your own child, or your relative, and then click the following link.

http://www.einswine.com/atrocities/iraq/

If you are surprised/shocked, forward them to your friends/relatives. Let the collective conscience of this nation be stirred up.

And let these picture be the epitaph of George Bush's presidency.

Perhaps people don't want to see such graphic pictures, which must be why your post dropped to the second page without response.

I, for one, have been paying attention to the civilian casualties of Bush's War and it saddens me no end. I can't think why more attention isn't being paid to this part of Bush's War.

I don't doubt for a second that the American people would react similarly to how the Iraqis are acting, in defense of their own country, their way of life, their families, etc. but - from what I've seen (or not seen) in the media and on blogs and forums, not too much concern or outrage about this issue of huge Iraqi civilian casualties. I'm very sorry about that.

War is hell.

The question is why we the Americans are so afraid to look at these pictures ? Are we all afraid that if we look at them, then our conscience will force us to say something which we think may not be liked by the Bushies ? Are we afraid of the repurcussions from the neo-conservatives ?

Is it ok to print some of these pictures and drop it off in public areas without breaking the law ?

Mahmood,
I don't have to imagine my own child to be horrified by these photos. ALL children are precious. I worry about the Iraqi civilians EVERY SINGLE DAY! Especially the children.

I accepted that, and know how such a thing would be.
You post this in a place that knows of such things and are railing against the current system. Perhaps it might be more effective in a forum more towards the support of GWB.
Most of us know, and also agree that we would react the same way. It is just that some do, dehumanize others, that it makes it easier for them to do such a thing.

These pictures are horrible, those children, damn bush and his pre emptive cowboy tactics, he has sooooooooooo much blood on his hands, 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, how can this man say he is pro-life, more like anti christ he is.

when is this man going to be stopped.

One thing I saw in your photos perplexes me, there are pictures of Kurds gassed by Saddam Hussien. I saw some of the same photo about 6 years ago; who, where, how, and when are you representing these things took place?

The country thinks its so much easier to ignore the reality and go on with life. What if this were OUR streets, how would we feel about this war then.

In response to the previous poster, if the pictures were of the Kurds they shouldn't be used to represent this war, but for every picture that you find from six years ago, I'm sure we find hundreds more of what is going on over there today that are just as bad. It doesn't change the fact that people are dying at Bush's hand.

Obviously, since Bush received over half of the popular vote, those voters do not perceive this war the same way the other half who voted for Kerry view the war. Saddam was going to harm us, so the war is justified, and civilian casualties are just part of war. That must be what they're thinking, or why else would they have voted for Bush? This war trumps American"moral values" issues, or it should. Is there a moral disgrace more abhorrent than unnecessarily waging war on a nation and killing it's citizens, in the name of democracy? Apparently, a multitude of Americans believe that gay marriage and abortion issues are more important. If they were really informed of the facts surrounding Bush's invasion of Iraq, and knowing the horrific civilian casualties, I wonder if they would still support the war. I guess we'll never know the truth .

How do you know these people where injured by the United States Military?

Since the site uses dead kids gassed by Saddam as filler why not assume the rest of them were maimed or killed by baathist or jihadist?

You choose to accuse the US Military without a bit of proof; how about a hearty "Allah Aqbar, death to the infidel crusaders" so everyone knows who you are next time.

'Twould be nice to have a better idea just what some of these pictures truly represent. Reason I say that is because I saw some pictures in another thread here that came from BabyKiller.com showing the results of Iraqi insurgent attacks on the Iraqi civilian populace, but misrepresented as the result of American military action.Methinks there were plenty of people who voted for Kerry that don't perceive this war the same way you apparently do. This was NOT the only issue in the campaign.

You are welcome to spout those lies to console yourself, but even you cannot deny that Muslim networks will not be so complimentary. Or frantically suppress the truth out of blind patriotism to the United States.

Oh, and if there are in fact that there are a few photos of what Hussein did to Iraqi children, they are probably used to highlight the comparison. I have seen many of these photographs before, in articles about damage being inflicted by our "liberation" efforts. These are the definition of American values to many people in the Arab world now, thanks to Bush.

We are all the more endangered for it.

I only got through the first couple of pages of these pics. Although, they are very disturbing, I didnt see any proof that these photos were of Iraqis injured or killed by American troops. Also, there is no date.

There is a great deal of anti American sentiment in the world, and a great deal of anti american propaganda floating around the internet. I think the date and orgin of these photos should be known before anyone sends the site off to others.

Perhaps, Mahmood would like more photos to send to family and friends. These photos clearly show American troops--the proof is in the photo unlike the site he has posted.


http://www.marinetimes.com/Photos/index.php?d=20041110&i=1

You can distribute what you want in public but publicly owned buildings will not let you drop them off. I think you'd have to hand them out. You can probably find privately owned businesses that would be willing to let you drop them. There is a coffee shop in our city that allows people to leave their anti-Bush materials.

We had a group here, post flyers of a grim reaper with anti-Bush slogans all over the city. It is illegal to post flyers on telephone poles here, but they probably did it in the cover of the night. They didn't get caught as far as I know.

Check your local laws of where you can post things first.

PEOPLE SHOULD BE FORCED TO SEE THE HORRORS OF WAR! Keeping their head in the sand is SINFUL! We may not know for certain if these exact victims are from our attacking Iraq, but we DO know that children are being mutiliated over there using OUR TAX DOLLARS! SHAME ON BUSH!

This is NOT about denigrating our soldiers. This is about BUSH and those that support this war needng to see the TRUTH. The soldiers are just doing what they are ORDERED to do. They do not have any decision making power, whatsoever...when it comes to declaring war.

There is a war going on in Iraq. Half of the Iraqi population is age 14 and under. Of course some children were killed in this war that was based on a lie.

It breaks my heart to see these pictures and some recent news photos of dead and injured civilians.

Everyone who voted for Bush should have to look at those pictures every day, his so-called moral values voters.

ITA!

I don't know what lies you are referring to.

I asked how these photos are automatically assumed to be caused by the United States military.

I saw some of the photos about six years ago and they came from several years before that. Seeing kids and their mothers lying dead in the street from being gassed isn't something too easy to forget.

I didn't see a thing showing American troops killing babys or kids on this site.

On the other hand the Arab television media seems quite thrilled to televise their Arab heros beheading some poor innocent soul and don't seem to be too interested in hurt kids other than using them for propaganda purposes.

I would assume the people who gleefully perform barbarous acts are who you should look to for hurting these kids, try tuning into Al Jazeera.

I agree--I hope others will question these photos and not send them out claiming they are Iraqis injured by American troops. These photos have been around long before the americans stepped foot in Iraq.

Some judges force criminals to hang the photo of the victim in their cell as a reminder. I think all Bush supporters should be sent these pictures or other pictures of dead Iraqi children as a little reminder of what they are supporting.

It is mostly inferred--by lowly civilians like myself--that if a kid is injured by bombs dropped during strikes by U.S. soldiers, that the child was injured by our side.

This is how it was explained to me--and the photographs I saw came from articles displaying the after-effects of bombing by our side.

I am sure that you will have a hundred different reasons why a bomb dropped from U.S. planes operated by U.S. forces shouldn't be attributed to the U.S., but I am honestly not interested. Naive college student though I may be.

I don't understand the denial that innocents are killed in war.

but anyway

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

I try not to care too much about the readiness to believe the propoganda...I know that--prejudice aside--the history books won't mince.

Too late for however many more Iraqis will suddenly find themselves violently blown into pieces over the next few years.

That explains a lot!

I don't understand it either. Again we need to acknowledge that there are good and bad people all professions, the military is no different.

Are you implying that the American military is actually targeting civilians?

As does your response. You really see your statements unprejudiced and objective, don't you?

We're implying this war should never have happened and applying to that the knowledge that civilians are killed in war.

We're not here for someone to pick a fight with.

Of course I don't think all of our troops are out to kill innocent people. Just look at what took place at the Abu graib prison. Yes we do have some bad apples serving in the military.

That's not how I interpreted the post at all. The post said, that within all professions there are some that are not honorable. That would mean there are SOME soldiers who committ war crimes. There is a difference between some soldiers and "The American Military."

Are you denying that there have been soldiers who have committed war crimes?

Indeed it is. More importantly -- war is not the answer.

The back and forth going on in this thread over where the pictures came from -- how do we know the pictures represent civilians killed by American soldiers in this war -- why don't you show these pictures of American soldiers performing acts of kindness -- ... Whether the pictures came from this war or not they are representative of war. Surely you do not doubt that the bullets and bombs flying in Iraq are killing men women and children. And yes, the American soldiers in Iraq are certainly decent men and women caught up in an indecent affair. And yes, I am sure there are equally gory pictures of the American soldiers who have been maimed and killed in this war.

IMO the real point here is -- war is not the answer. Your debate over who can more effectively dehumanize who seems to totally miss that point. We (the United States) had no business starting a war with Iraq which makes the carnage all the more egregious.

The source, dates, and circumstances of these photos need to be validated. You don't know if it's American bombing or terrorists bombing or insurgent bombing or Saddam's terror that created some, most of all of these pictures.

One thing I'm sure of. We're responsible for a piece of it. You cannot bomb the way we have without causing death and harm like this. And, yes, George W. Bush is the most guilty. He is the initiator of this horrible war in the name of "freedom."

With all that passion why don't we see your participation in the target='_blank'>Background thread?

Good points Robin but we were also making the point that our Gov sterlizes and censors info about the war and that Americans should take a close look at the realities of war. Particularly, those that support Bush and his war.

Remaining comfortable in denial is DANGEROUS as a society.

Perhaps if the Bush voters had really taken a look at the horrors of this war, they would have thought twice about voting for him.

I agree. I wish the media would paint the real picture of war. After allowing open unfettered coverage of the Vietnam war, the Pentagon is not going to let American media get close enough to show anymore than they want the public to see.

I saw nothing that these kids were hurt by an American bomb, missle, artillery shell, grenade, or any other destructive device. It never ceases to amaze me when pictures like these are posted how many people jump in and automatically blame the United States military.

I've seen quite a bit of coverage on baathist and jihadist blowing up car bombs, IED's RPGs, mortar shells, and various other destructive devices to kill, maim, or injure anyone close to any American, foreigner, or any Iraqi cooperating with the Iraqi government. Seems I remember baathist and jihadist targeted a group of kids a couple of months ago who took some candy from Americans.

Post a picture of a hurt kid and naturally assume it was done by an American bomb. Tell us what college you get that kind of learning from so the rest of us can avoid it.

I will reiterate something that I told someone else on this board: thanks for your kind words.

Tell me: when am I allowed to think that the sources of these photographs are correct? When I see the kid actually buried in the rubble and American aircraft flying off into the distance? It is unfortunate that mostly--at that moment--no one is too concerned with documenting proof.

Is our own military lying to us about the strikes and bombings?

I am sure that you find this irrelevent, but I was referring to a child posted on that site who had been originally featured in an article a few weeks ago from a hospital within Fallujah.

http://www.antiwar.com/jamail/?articleid=3997

http://www.antiwar.com/jamail/?articleid=3990

http://www.antiwar.com/jamail/?articleid=3984

http://www.antiwar.com/jamail/?articleid=3964

During a ground offensive in urban environments like Najaf or Fallujah,

American military shoot anything that moves that isn't identified as american,

American military shoot anyone first in sight, armed or unarmed, when crashing in homes,

American military have the option, but no obligation, to hold fire when recognizing a "white flag" and bearers walking very slowly towards them.

American military may shoot anyone carrying a "white flag" if they find the bearers carrying weapons or what they believe are concealed weapons.

And, if an American military "thinks" he "accidentally" shot a civilian, he is told to forget about it, because "Dude, shit happens.".

So the answer to your question, Pretty Fly, is yes.

My "statements" are opinions, not statements of fact. Being opinions they are of course influenced by my own prejudices. 'Twas my understanding that this web site was set up as a place to discuss issues and exchange opinions, but 'twould seem that's not what many here really want.

If and when I provide any facts methinks you'll recognize them as such. The only facts I know about this topic right now is that we have forces deployed in Iraq, there is shooting going on and people are being hurt and killed. Everything else here seems to be opinions, some of which appear more valid than others.

You haven't seemed to be the most vociferous of those attacking people with differing opinions but there are times when you dig in your heels and don't seem want to consider what others think and why. I'm probably guilty of this too, but at least I admit it and am trying to overcome my prejudices. At least it now seems you're becoming more willing to consider opposing viewpoints. Maybe we can work on this together?

First you call me a hypocrit and now this? Methinks you should ask Cloudy for some help with anger management. IAC it's obvious you don't want to engage in any rational discussion, eh?

Hey Chief,
I was attached to the Royal Navy for a year stationed at a place called Rosythe in Scotland, even the Scots have trouble figuring out the English and they're neighbors.

Ah yes, but not always such good neighbors, eh? Even though I've only got a little Scottish and Welsh blood, methinks I should take the atrocities perpetrated on both by the English into consideration here. 'Twould seem the English are experts on atrocities.

Isn't Rosythe near Faslane and on the Firth of Clyde?

No, it's near Edinburgh on the Firth of Forth.

My ancestors were all Scots, the family story was they all immigrated to America in 1748 to keep the Duke of Cumberland from hanging them. I guess that explains why I'm bad so often.

My heart goes out to the Iraqi people but our US soldiers are dying also. The people there are being killed by terrorists from other countries also. Try to see american and poland dead soldeirs to get a good ideal of the atrocities going on.
Ogrish