http://img61.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img61&image=perp.jpg

:D

Ok, so it’s not so entertaining.
This machine works because:

1) The large concrete weight falls from gravity, it’s a one way expense.
2) The uphill climb has a terrific mechanical advantage using gears and a highly efficient electric motor.
3) Time to fall is 1/8x the time to climb; you would need 8 of these to generate a constant flow of electricity.
4) The alternator only needs so much torque to efficiently turn, then it’s the speed it turns becomes relevant. Most of the hydraulic energy is spent on speed, only a little is needed to maintain force. Look up ventury.
5) The amount of energy that is generated by an alternator is determined by the number of poles, the value of the field current, the coil configuration, and the number of times the lines of force are crossed by the pick up coil. I've enhanced all of these in the past 20 years.
6) The return line for the hydraulic fluid is a larger size and doesn't offer nearly as much resistance as the compression stage of this press. Even with a simple one way flip up valve located at the bottom of the compression cylinder.
7) The bearings for the concrete block to slide down are very non-resistive adding next to nothing in friction and it also is sliding straight down suspended by 4 tracks, one on each corner of the block.
8) The clutch to disengage the electric climber fully detracts from the block's track so no friction is added when free fall occurs.

So, it’s not perpetual, it won't run for ever. With a good maintenance program and seasonal adjustments it will generate many times more energy than it uses. But it doesn't generate 60 Hz power; it is more like 6,000 Hz. No problem I know a way to mechanically change the frequency to 60 Hz. To do this electronically it would up the cost of this machine 10 fold, and would reduce the efficiency to a barely break even machine. :D

Forgot to mention that with my energy storage system [(look up stiffening capacitors) http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/capsetup.html ] and my mechanical wave form regulator the power will be as clean as it gets. With 8 of these machines your getting megawatts, for nothing. Any body like to prove me wrong? :D That's the entertainment part, to see a flood of people quickly assure me that the 3rd law of thermodynamics wont let this happen.... I listed the 8 reasons why it will. :o

Can anybody help me calculate this?

The block weight = 400t of concrete ~ 185.2 yds of concrete.
The compression and fill tanks are 20' in diameter * 15' high ~ 4712.389 cuft ~ 35,253.38 gallons of fluid.

If the weight is dropped what would the psi of the compression tank be[20'diameter]?
The opening at the bottom of the tank is 1/20 the size of the top dimension, what would the pressure be at the smaller opening [1'diameter]?
How could I figure out the speed of the fluid passing through the smaller opening [Gallons/Second]?
How long would it take before the 35,253.38 gallons of fluid passed through the smaller opening?
How would I calculate the speed of the fluid [feet/second]?

I would appreciate any help, thanks!

I'm probably way off here but I'm trying.


Using an Mtn.Dew 2 liter bottle with the end cut off 4" diameter holding about 2quarts of water it took 45 seconds for the water to drain through a 1/5" hole drilled in the cap. That totaled to 1.5 gallons per minute.

I'm looking for:

Cylinder:
20' diameter * 15' high ~ 35,253.464 gallons = 70,506.928x the amount of water.

Venturi:
1' diameter ~ 1/20th the area = 80x the area of the opening.

35253.464/.5 =
70506.928/80 =
881.3366
880*1.5 =
1320


880 times the measured flow 1.5 gallons per minute * 880 = 1320 gallons per minute. 35253.464 gallons/1320 gallons per minute = 26.7 minuets total to drain at 1 atmos. The total weight of the oil is # 229,147.516 ~ 114 tons. With a 400t weight (here's where I got totally lost) ~ 4 atmos or a 4x multiplier. 26.7 / 4 = 6.675 minutes to drain the tank under pressure and the pressure at the venturi would be 25t????????? of torque.

Oh yeah, using a 40 hp diesel motor driving a hydraulic pump and turning a crane like line and block I can pick up the 400t weight in less time then it takes to fall [1]. So two of these monsters would produce "continual" power. :D

Or lets say its a 40hp hybrid motor just to start the system then it uses its own electricity it generated to run. :D :D

[1] We use these where I work. Nice energy conversion.

http://www.mi-jack.com/travelift/travelift...ryconcrete.html

Starting to work on the core of this machine: the turbo-screw perminant magnet alternator. I'll have to elongagate it some to make room for my coil arangement.

http://img16.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img16&image=farmerToms198.jpg

http://img85.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img85&image=gen1b.jpg

Started drawing on the alternator some. Sure be nice if some Nikola Tesla like person could help me out on the hydrolic computations. Or are all of them "owned"?

The magnet and coil array for this alternator is a little different:






The background are some 3dmax effects, I like to play with them......

Have you built one of these devices, or is it just theoretical? I do have a background in science, but not in Physics, but biochemistry, so I doubt I could help you. However, I do agree with you on the "so called" laws of thermodynamics, they do work to a degree, if they did not, every time one lit a fire, it would consume the entire universe! But, the universe is anti-entropic as a whole, if it were not, man would not exist.

Many times mathematical laws are carried over into human logic. Factor the some of laws with the new findings of Physics like dark matter (an electron less atom...the electrical stability is made up of the leptons and quarks of the proton and neutron) that is the truly perfect chi of universe. Look at the effect that space that is dark mater and it'll explain many things that are thought to be chance in quantum physics. Super strings are not strings at all I think, but rather harmonic conductance/distortions through the media of dark mater.....space.

But aside from my belief in about relativity based on spatial harmonics this alternator is really a simple device that re-examines electrical generation. Nikola Tesla dropped efficiency to adhere to conformity of 60 Hz. Advancements in the alternator have been few and far between. My alternator addresses many of these "issues" and uses permanent magnets as well.

But the primary reason of this post is the simple fact that the big weight can be lifted up and dropped where it forces the fluid from an upper tank to a lower tank through a smaller opening where even a simple existing alternator can generate more power than the whole system uses. It’s a pretty simple device, but requires a little help:

Someone who is a wiz at hydrology computations..
Someone that can arrange finances if it calculates out correct
Someone that can get a "public domain" patent
Someone who can put this machine together (I know the right people there but they require pay)


But if it doesn't calculate out then it’s not worth the effort...I think it is.

LeIbNiZ, thanks for responding...

No problem. I always look at your posts, they are very interesting to me to say the least. I have been looking at "free energy" systems for a couple of years now, and haven't found any. However, I think the Pons-Fleishman experiment on cold fusion has potential, although I have not done my own testing. Keep up your work!! I think Tesla is very underestimated myself. I don't have any money people to help you though, sorry.

"free energy" .....

This system isn't actually free energy. I've been doing some product research and found that with a 40 hp motor and a line-block lifting device I can hoist 100t (originally thought 400t) weight 15' high in less than 6 minutes. Then the weight is dropped, let to fall using guide rails and bearings onto a tank holding about 40,000 gallons of synthetic oil. The oil is forced into another tank via a reduction in the size of the surface area, like a two funnels one upright and the other inverted. In the center of the funnel(s) is a turbo screw that spins as the fluid rushes by it.




I think if the rotating tube had gear teeth on it an array of "existing" alternators, or a single large alternator could be connected and generate more power than the hoist uses lifting the 100t weight.

Anyone want to calculate this? That is why I named this thread "Entertainment" because I thought it would give someone a really entertaining way for someone to prove this right or wrong...............

The pressure of the fluid in the reduction is only relative to a point, the speed that the turbine will turn is the primary focus.

Here is a sequenced picture of the tower:

1) The compression ram & weight is at the top of its run.
2) As the hoist is put in neutral the weight starts to slide down and the compression ram forces 40,000 gallons of fluid through the reduction and spins the turbo screw.
3) The weight has fallen to its bottom position.
4) As the weight is hoisted up by the crane motors the bypass tube's (gold tubes) one way valves flip up and allow the fluid to be "drawn" back to the top from suction in the compression tank.

That's all folks...........

The top cylinder is 20' diameter * 15' high and contains 45,552 gallons of fluid.
The reduction cylinder is 4" diameter * 2' high and contains 5.2 gallons of fluid.
The turbo screw runs the full length of the reduction cylinder and has 2 turns.
The fluid can flow through the reduction cylinder @ 90 gallons per minute with only the pressure of a gallon of water.
At 90 gallons per minute passing through the reduction cylinder that holds 5.2 gallons with 2 turns of the turbo screw = 90/5.2*2= 34.6154 rpms at the pressure of 1 gallon of head. That would take 8.455 hours to pass.
The weight of oil for 45,552 gallons of fluid would be 296,088 # ~ 148 tons.
The weight of the drop block is 100 tons ~ 200,000 #.

How do I figure the weight....aka pressure of the head???



I would like this unit to drop the water through the reduction cylinder in 6 minutes, that is 84.355 times as fast as it calculates with a 1 gallon head.
This would spin the turbo screw at 2020 rpm with a lot of torque......tons of torque maybe?


The lifting device is a 40 hp electric motor with a gear reduction system, that'll cost about 25kw of energy per pair of machines (they alternate...one lifts while the other falls).

45552/.1337 =
340703.06657
ANS/144 =
2365.9935178
250*2000 =
500000
ANS/2366 =
211.3271344 psi max???


80 psi min???

Take the working surface area of the turbo screw and multiply it by the psi average????????????

I've started e-mailing for help; I have every intension of making this work, and getting a Public Domain Patent for this energy transfer device. I have a lot of faith in the college that I attend when I can so I found out which one of the Professors was best qualified for this and asked him to help.
If this device does work as well as I think it will I want to look at fabricating and installing parts of this machine so I'll get good job (so will many other Americans) as electric suppliers start to put these devices online to the grid. It will also get some publicity to the people that make this work which is what I need too sense this isn’t the only idea I’ve conceived.
What this device would mean to other people:

Its low maintenance.
It doesn't create any polution..none.
It'll reduce the cost of generation to a maintenance/transfer cost.
It should drop the consumer’s electric bill in half.
It can work anywhere, anytime....it's the only good answer for emerging industrialized nations.

I assume this would be a commercial machine, but my question is, do you have any plans in which a smaller version could be made to generate power for a single home, if that is possible?

The efficiency of this machine is the gravity/gear reduction factors. It is scalable but the scaling down would also taper the efficiency down in a non-linear way. A pair of these units could service a nice sized neighborhood, as I think the output will be several megawatts over its cost of 25kw. The cost of these units is considerably less than anything else comparable and factoring out the construction and maintenance cost over several years would make a sweet deal for any small community. But I'm not saying that a single home unit couldn't be made...just need to mathematically prove the conversion to incorporate real world numbers to the efficiency factors.
Large cities are in essence linked smaller communities, so a hundred of these linked on a grid could provide several terawatts of cheap power. I need help on the math, unless it's all factored out..it will never happen.

Looks like the turbo screw will have to have a non-linear twist in order to take full advantage of the venturi principle.

But with a more linear reduction the flow speed is 4x and the pressure drop is 1/6x, should work.

Hey Howdy,
I've got enough experience with Patent filings to be able to help on that issue a bit. As I understand it, the primary Patent categories are "Chemical", "Plant" (as in vegitation but may also include other biologicals now), "Design", and "Utility". Yours might fall into the Utility category, or perhaps the Design category, dependent upon how truly unique it is. Public Domain generally refers to old technology that is no longer protected by a Patent, and that means anyone can use it without an owner's permission.
When you are ready, I'd suggest you hire a good Patent Search Company, their whole job is to look for conflicts with existing Patents.
You might want to consider starting with a PTO Disclosure Document, its very inexpensive, and can be done before paying for the full search.
There is also a Provisional Patent program that's worth considering.
If you havn't been there yet, check out the web site, from memory I think its at USPTO.GOV (United States Patent and Trademark Office)

I helped a friend a few years back when he was trying to build a vaguely similar generator to take advantage of small natural waterfalls. Fill a container, drop the container, dump the water before lifting again. Finding the right waterfall was one of the primary hang ups with that one. Good luck to you!

If you come up with a good source of funding, I'd like to hear about that. That's the only thing holding me back from starting production. I've already built a variety of working prototypes, it extremely expensive to take the next step.

Hi energywiz,
Reason why a "Public Domain Patent" is that manufacturing and transportation of this monster is not realistic. A construction company building this for towns, cities, and rural is. If a school builds something it usually gets a public domain patent, the rights are protected so no-one can sit on the technology. You know the patent laws just me publishing the idea here offers some protection. I don't have money for any searches, I barely make my bills, so I need to mathematically prove this device, if it calculates out I'm sure some Electric Company will want one built.....they provide the model and "Public Domain Patent".
I recently posted a "Help me" topic at a very "hard core" physics web community in hope they would "enjoy" proving this wrong or right mathematically. So hopefully soon we'll see a post with math that looks like this:

http://math.nist.gov/mcsd/savg/tutorial/ansys/FEM/

Everyone that works on this will get equal billing in the credits and if it does work well, that could mean something.

BTW: Phoenix AZ is a good place for manufacturing, the energy "laws" are a little shy because of the mishap with the "Alternate fueled vehicles" but your overall cost maybe what makes or breaks your project at the stage your in now. Cost are low here, and quality is high. There are lots of fabricating shops and plenty of nearby material suppliers. It’s a win-win in Phoenix.....that’s why we are growing so fast. Also we have a lot of sunny days.....some fabrication can be done outside...saves building cost.

It appears you are only looking at the "positives" in your concrete block example - the block is not free-falling - its on rails with bearings - you will have friction here, plus torsion.

The fluid process will have turbulence and heat generation factored in - you will gain heat here - the heat will be transferred to your fluid as it is compressed. I see no method to cool it to keep your system in balance.

I agree, you need the mathematics to see where this process loses energy.

Need to look at a simple model first to see if the potential is there.

Free falling: 100 ton weight...forcing 148 tons of fluid through a reduction....the block glides on bearings on 4 of its edges... the resistance from the bearings is so minimal in relation to the potential force.... the bearing drag would be only slightly relative.

The turbulence in the reservoirs would be factorable if the system didn't have the immense weight forcing it through the reduction, but with that kind of mass.....

The system does compress the fluid...that's why I selected a fluid rather than a gas. Fluid doesn't compress and expand like a gas... the heat build up is next to nada..easily conducted through the 40,000 gallons to the cylinders edge which would be at an ambient temperature. In other words there is so little heat generated by fluid compression and so much fluid in the system it’s not mentionable.

The real heat problem with this system is the bearings for the turbo screw in the reduction. Once again the surface area of the fluid to the cylinders and the huge volume of fluid it will be self cooling. The machine should be built in an enclosed but ventilated area, ideally at no more than 90 degrees F., or no less than 40 degrees F. Mainly this has to do with the viscosity of the fluid, not so much to do with heat building.

The system is a real mind puzzle...but it sure looks good.

BTW: There are no physical laws broken by this machine...nor are any of the physical laws compromised.....it’s simply a very unique conversion. :D

The real hold back to this machine is me…I didn’t make it to the library…I’m beat from work today..when I got home from work I feel asleep at the computer..got up took a two hour nap…and now its kind of late …. So tomorrow I head to the library and try to learn enough math to start factoring this all out.

You know the patent laws just me publishing the idea here offers some protection.

[/quote]

I think this thread would qualify as "publishing" an idea. That gives you one year of limited Patent rights protection from the date of publication, but then the actual Patent must be applied for. Wishing you success.

Thanks for the info on AZ.

Tom

I had a similar idea (weight on a hydraulic piston to store energy -- more on this below).

My assumption is that the Laws of Thermodynamics set the limits for any machine we can construct. I look for the energy break-even point, where the energy output of the system approaches 100% of the energy input. In our terrestrial environment, friction and gravity will introduce losses. (A good illustration can be found in the discussions of energy storage flywheels. Some are using magnetic bearings in an evacuated chamber to reduce losses from friction.)

My project would not generate a surplus of energy -- it would merely store energy input with as little loss as possible.

My idea is to build a public facility at our local landfill. It would serve as a meeting and recreational fitness space. It would also serve to educate the public about energy. It would, of course, be designed using state-of-the-art "green building" techniques. It would be located near the landfill to take advantage of methane generation of heat and electricity. (We're talking about forming a municipal energy utility here in my city, and I like this idea for the headquarters office building.)

The central feature of the fitness equipment would be a platform on top of a hydraulic piston. The people would climb a staircase to mount the platform, and would then ride it down, like an elevator. The energy input into the system would come from the energy expended by the stair-climbers as they work against gravity to lift their body weight as they climb the stairs. The hydraulic system would function as your system, generating electricity, or pumping liquid to a higher level, or storing the energy in some fashion.

The hard part is getting the platform back to the top of the stairs for the next group to ride down. Maybe the same group could use "stair steppers" or rowing machines or stationary cycles to pump the hydraulic piston back to the top. Or perhaps a photovoltaic array or wind genny could be employed to assist in restoring the platform to the top of its travel.

It wouldn't generate a surplus of energy, but it would be good exercise, and it would be educational.

(In case this idea is patentable, remember you heard it here first!)

Dave