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rox63
This will definitely make me reconsider ever setting foot in their tourist mecca of a city again. I don't want to spend my hard-earned money in a place that pulls crap like this. anger.gif blink.gif doh.gif

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/200...ws/8589438.html

QUOTE
Feeding homeless outlawed
ACLU calls measure unenforceable


By DAVID MCGRATH SCHWARTZ
REVIEW-JOURNAL
Jul. 20, 2006

If someone looks like he could use a meal, be warned: Giving him a sandwich in a Las Vegas park could land you in jail.

The Las Vegas City Council passed an ordinance Wednesday that bans providing food or meals to the indigent for free or a nominal fee in parks.

The measure is an attempt to stop so-called "mobile soup kitchens" from operating in parks, where residents say they attract the homeless and render the city facilities unusable by families.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Nevada called the ordinance blatantly unconstitutional, unenforceable and the latest attempt by the city to hide and harass the homeless instead of constructively addressing their plight.

"So the only people who get to eat are those who have enough money? Those who get (government) assistance can't eat at your picnic?" asked ACLU attorney Allen Lichtenstein. "I've heard of some rather strange and extreme measures from other cities. I've never heard of something like this. It's mind-boggling."

The city's new ordinance, which officials could begin enforcing as early as Friday, defines an indigent as a "person whom a reasonable ordinary person would believe to be entitled to apply for or receive assistance" from the government under state law.

Mayor Oscar Goodman, who has been a vocal advocate of cracking down on the homeless in city parks, dismissed questions about how marshals, who patrol city parks, will identify the homeless in order to enforce the ordinance, the violation of which would be a misdemeanor.

"Certain truths are self-evident," Goodman said. "You know who's homeless."

City officials said they instituted the law in part because of recommendations from some who work with the homeless who say offering food separately from other services, such as counseling and drug treatment, is counterproductive.

"This is not a punishment; this is to help people," Goodman said. "The people who provide sandwiches have good intentions, but they're enabling people not to get the help that is needed."

Residents near Huntridge Circle Park, on Maryland Parkway near Charleston Boulevard, say people who bringing food to the homeless draw them to the area.

But one advocate who feeds the homeless at the park said she will continue to do so.

"I'm going to do whatever I think is necessary to keep people alive," said Gail Sacco.

Sacco has been cited twice while feeding the homeless, for holding a gathering of 25 or more people without a permit.

That ordinance is currently the subject of litigation by the ACLU of Nevada, and Gary Peck, the group's executive director, said the ordinance adopted Wednesday probably will be included in the lawsuit.

City Attorney Brad Jerbic said the city tried to negotiate with the ACLU and Sacco, including attempting to find a place where Sacco could provide food to the homeless.

Peck said negotiations "ended badly because, from our perspective, they're not negotiating in good faith. They're trying to figure out ways of making homeless invisible or kicking them out of our community."

Sacco said the city's approach has been to spout rhetoric and push the problem out of view, instead of offer constructive solutions.

"If the city and county and nonprofits are getting out there doing outreach to the people, then (the homeless) won't be at Circle Park and I won't have anyone to feed down there," Sacco said. "If they're just putting people in jail, the city is making it look like they are doing a wonderful job on the homeless issue. It's just a farce."

Sacco said in addition to providing food, she works to get the homeless housing, treatment, identification and jobs.

For the past month, the city has been cracking down on the homeless at Circle Park, arresting those inside the park before it opens at 7 a.m. and citing others for trespassing if they're on private property.

Neighbors have applauded the city's efforts, which have also included threats to increase the number of mentally ill homeless that they force to be hospitalized.

But Peck said despite residents' concerns, any sweep or crackdown has to be done in a legal manner. "It doesn't matter if they're unsightly, if neighbors don't like them. It doesn't trump the Constitution," he said.

The council unanimously passed the ordinance. Councilwoman Lois Tarkanian was absent.

Councilman Steve Wolfson, who last week raised concerns that the measure would prohibit someone from giving a sandwich to a homeless person, said after talking with Jerbic he felt comfortable with how the ordinance would be enforced.

"The marshals will get specialized training on enforcement," Wolfson said. "If you bought a couple of burgers and wanted to give them out, you technically would be in violation, but you wouldn't be cited."

Jerbic said police make judgment calls based on the severity of the crime, and this would be no different.

Lichtenstein said the city's statements were a clear indication they intend to use selective enforcement, which is unconstitutional under the equal protection clause of the Constitution.
Terra
QUOTE(rox63 @ Jul 20 2006, 08:17 AM)
This will definitely make me reconsider ever setting foot in their tourist mecca of a city again. I don't want to spend my hard-earned money in a place that pulls crap like this.    anger.gif  blink.gif  doh.gif

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/200...ws/8589438.html
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Good grief, calm down. I live here. That law was needed, and that article was totally one sided.

In essence what had happened was a few people every few days would go to this very old park, in the middle of old residental homes, and toss out some sandwhiches. There are NO sanitary facilites there - since the park is about as big as two postage stamps. It was built by the homebuilder years ago to accomodate the chilrdren around that area.

Word travels among the homeless, and the population grew to the point of standing room only. Food passed out every few days, one drinking fountain in 120 degree temps.. miles and miles from where our established and staffed shelters are.

Now over the course of the last year, people can't let their children out to use the park, houses being burglarized, the crime rate SOARED in that area, used needles were laying on the street for blocks in all directions, the homless that need help but were not in the right place to get it on a lot that was way to small for their numbers. You really had to see it to understand.

The ACLU was totally off base with this, sorry.
graham4anything
Living in NYC during the Rudy mayor term 1 years, he got rid of all the homeless people in Manhattan, made washing windows a crime, threw them in jail, etc...

And in Manhattan you couldn't find a homeless person.

Great right?

Not if you lived in Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, Bronx, New Jersey, Long Island, Ct, etc

It only moved them to another area (although there were always rumors some just up and disappeared completely)

But at least if people give food instead of money, the food gets eaten and not used for drugs or liquor
Terra
This is not NYC and Rudy is not our mayor. We have good, clean, well staffed and well funded housing and care centers for the homless. Drawing people to an area without adequate food, water or shelter is criminal in and of itself.

We don't drop them in abandon mine shafts once they check into places that can afford them their needs, though I'd suspect you think we do.

QUOTE(graham4anything @ Jul 20 2006, 10:03 AM)
Living in NYC during the Rudy mayor term 1 years, he got rid of all the homeless people in Manhattan, made washing windows a crime, threw them in jail, etc...

And in Manhattan you couldn't find a homeless person.

Great right?

Not if you lived in Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, Bronx, New Jersey, Long Island, Ct, etc

It only moved them to another area (although there were always rumors some just up and disappeared completely)

But at least if people give food instead of money, the food gets eaten and not used for drugs or liquor
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rox63
QUOTE(Terra @ Jul 20 2006, 12:56 PM)
Good grief,  calm down. I live here. That law was needed, and that article was totally one sided.

In essence what had happened was a few people every few days would go to this very old park, in the middle of old residental homes, and toss out some sandwhiches. There are  NO sanitary facilites there - since the park is about as big as two postage stamps. It was built by the homebuilder years ago to accomodate the chilrdren around that area.

Word travels among the homeless, and the population grew to the point of standing room only. Food passed out every few days, one drinking fountain in 120 degree temps.. miles and miles from where our established and staffed shelters are.

Now over the course of the last year, people can't let their children out to use the park, houses being burglarized, the crime rate SOARED in that area, used needles were laying on the street for blocks in all directions, the homless that need help but were not in the right place to get it on a lot that was way to small for their numbers. You really had to see it to understand.

The ACLU was totally off base with this, sorry.
*


The problem is, it also outlaws outdoor distribution of food where there are better facilities to handle it. A lot of homeless people won't go into the shelters, because they are afraid of being assaulted or robbed, or because they are mentally ill.

Perhaps the park you mentioned was not an appropriate place to do this. But surely there must be another way that would work better.
graham4anything
Any person who has a home or whatnot is one day removed from being a homeless person.

Not everyone is a criminal (that is a major stereotype).

Lots of homeless had great jobs and families until they were laid off
or lost all their money gambling or a major illness used up all their savings

The surest way is to find a job for the homeless, get them a place to live that is safe and start them back on the road
Terra
QUOTE(rox63 @ Jul 20 2006, 10:38 AM)
The problem is, it also outlaws outdoor distribution of food where there are better facilities to handle it. A lot of homeless people won't go into the shelters, because they are afraid of being assaulted or robbed, or because they are mentally ill.

Perhaps the park you mentioned was not an appropriate place to do this. But surely there must be another way that would work better.
*


The problem we ran into was this - the people who were handing out food on a hit and miss bases had no common sense. No refrigeration, heat at 110+, egg salad, tuna salad, bologna with mayo. They'd show up maybe 3-4 times a week. Our hospitals have been over run the past 2 months with food poisoning victims .. victims of a good will went wrong. Care to eat the 2nd half of your mayo or egg laden sandwhich later in the day here, your asking for a crisis.

There is nothing wrong with going into sheltered areas to get food on a regular basis that is nutrious, healthy.. and not tainted. We are set up to handle that. No one is asked for ID, Green Cards or anything else. We have one of the most humane and helpful homeless sytems and volunteers here that I've seen.

Perhaps were you live has a better designed system - I'd like to hear it.
rox63
QUOTE(Terra @ Jul 20 2006, 04:01 PM)
Perhaps were you live has a better designed system - I'd like to hear it.
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Admittedly, my area doesn't get nearly as hot as yours. And everything is closer together in the older northeastern cities and towns. So perhaps there are reasons behind this that apply to your area that don't apply to mine. I'm used to cities that are more compact, and more pedestrian-friendly. I know when I went out to visit a friend Phoenix, AZ, I was amazed at how far it was between everything. And the residential areas were not close to the commercial areas. So if they are doing this in a residential area, I can see how this could be a problem.

We have mobile units that go out in Boston distributing food and blankets to the homeless in the winter. And I know there is at least one mobile unit that goes out from one of the hospitals to provide some medical care to them as well. They may even do some needle exchange so that drug addicts won't have as much reason to share needles. (and thus diseases)

So perhaps I shouldn't judge as quickly as had done.
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