has this been posted yet ?

http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/003106.html#003106

"Serious problems in King County Elections Department"
Washington State Republican Party chairman Chris Vance issued a press release earlier today alleging "four glaring examples of problems [calling] into question the way the [King County] Elections Department is run".

1. Ballots clearly marked for Dino Rossi are not being counted.
2. A partisan King County Elections employee is engaging in improper behavior.
3. Ballots are not being stored securely.
4. Ballots are missing from some precincts.

The complete press release follows in the extended entry.

Serious problems in King County Elections Department

Missing ballots, partisan employees, and more

Seattle, WA – Republicans today raised new questions about the way King County is conducting the recount of the governor’s race. They pointed to four glaring examples of problems that they say calls into question the way the county Elections Department is run.

Republican observers watching over the King County recount cited the following examples:

1. Ballots clearly marked for Dino Rossi are not being counted.

In more than one instance this morning, ballots where the bubble was clearly and fully marked for Dino Rossi were spit out of the machine because of other stray marks on the ballot. King County Elections workers noticed that there were faint marks on or around the bubble next to Christine Gregoire’s name. The workers recommended that these ballots be sent to the King County Canvassing Board to clear up any confusion, but King County Elections Superviser Bill Huennekens, who is a Democrat, ordered the workers to not count the ballots at all, even though they were clearly and fully marked for Dino Rossi. A Republican observer questioned Huennekens on his decision, but Huennekens was not responsive.


2. A partisan King County Elections employee is engaging in improper behavior.

Ten days ago, a paid temporary employee for King County Elections said aloud that he didn’t trust Republican observers. On a different day, the same employee got confrontational with a Republican observer, to the extent that the employee’s supervisor sent the employee home for the rest of the day. This morning, the same employee was observed running ballots through the machine – some of the ballots were spit out, which is normal. But instead of running all the spit-out ballots through the machine again, as he should have done, this employee took only some of the ballots and ran them through the machine again. When he was done, he took the ballots that had run through the machine again and shuffled them into the stack of ballots that he failed to run through the machine. A Republican observer notified a supervisor of this suspicious activity, and the supervisor has offered to run the entire batch of ballots through the machine again. Republicans are asking that this employee be removed.

3. Ballots are not being stored securely.

This morning, when ballots were being taken out of the supposedly secure storage area, one of the ballot boxes was not sealed and was open. The receipt on the ballot box from the night before said that there were 199 ballots in the box. But when the ballots were taken out and counted, there were 201 ballots in the box.

4. Ballots are missing from some precincts.

A Republican observer discovered this morning that in several precincts, there are fewer ballots on hand than were counted on Election Day. In one particular precinct, there were 88 fewer ballots on hand than were counted at the precinct polling place on Election Day. A batch of ballots from this precinct was delivered from the polling place to King County Elections not in a box, but in a bag. The bag wasn’t discovered until Friday, and it had not been stored in a secure location. The missing 88 ballots weren’t discovered until today.

State Republican Party chairman Chris Vance called the situation in King County “a mess,” and said the Elections Department needs to clean up its act.

“It is extremely troubling and disheartening to see this kind of behavior at the King County Elections Department,” said Vance. “After the 2002 election debacle, when the county made so many mistakes, you’d think the county would have bent over backwards to make this election process go smoothly. In fact, it looks as though it’s as bad as it’s ever been.

“Dean Logan is not in a position to supervise all of his employees at all times and some of the temporary and permanent eployees do not meet standards of fairness and competence.

“The voters of King County and of the entire state deserve to have all votes counted responsibly and properly, not to mention legally. This should not continue any longer. We need action now to make sure all valid votes are counted in King County.”

Yesterday the state Republican Party filed suit in Federal Court against King County and the Secretary of State’s office for the way the recount is being conducted in King County. Yesterday Republican Party observers saw that King County election workers were attempting to determine voter intent on ballots where a vote for governor was not clear. Election workers were “enhancing” ballots themselves. The GOP said this amounted to a partial hand recount, when all counties are supposed to be conducting machine recounts only.

A federal judge today denied the GOP’s request for a temporary restraining order based on King County’s assurance that 1) ballots are not being irreparably altered, and 2) “enhanced” ballots are segregated and available for later review. Vance said the state party believes King County’s assurances are not valid, and urged the media and the public to observe the process in King County to see for themselves what is happening.

Vance added, “The King County which today assured the judge that ballots are being handled properly is the same King County which is allowing these egregious improprieties to occur.”

btw this is something the republicans are trying to pool. Why can't we use it as a staging ground against Blackwell?

See? The door DOES swing both ways.

That was a mighty quick break you took, Jason. Welcome back.

No, if you read carefully, in each case a Republican has tried to remove a person or otherwise alter the counting of ballots. In each case, it was a republican that took action, not a Dem. When I read that, I see a clear case of attempted fraud on the part of the Republican.

Well, of course you do. That is easy when one allows their beliefs to blind them to truth.

Let's see:



So, ballots where a bubble was clearly and fully marked for the R candidate, but were not counted by the machine, for some reason. Other workers recommend the ballots be sent to the canvassing board, but a Democrat elections superviser ordered the workers not to count the ballots.

Oh, yes! I see it now: clearly attempted fraud on the part of the Republicans!



Oh, yes! More fraud! An employee makes partisan comments, then is caught not following the rules and Republicans ask he be removed from the process. How dare they?

And ballots being stored insecurely as well as ballots that go missing from the original count are clearly Republican attempts at fraud.

C'mon!!! If this were going on and the Republicans were the *culprits*, you would be leading the charge to lynch them!

I do like the "alter the counting of the ballots", though.

I guess, that would be something the Republicans can use: 'The Democrats are not trying to prove fraud! They are just trying to alter the counting of the ballots!'

As it clearly says, the ballots need to be reviewed before some joe-schmo can just count them. The republican tried to step and and say "no, they are valid, just count them" and the Dem Supervisor said "No, we do things legally, shut your hole."

Clearly a case of republican attempted fraud.



Clearly, this Dem worker is very honest and watching the Republicans closely for fraud, even catching them a few times (when he confronted them, they made him leave). In response, the republicans have made up some story about card counting which of course, only a republican observer saw, in an attempt to get the watchdog fired so that the republicans can go about their fraud undetected.

Clearly a case of republican attempted fraud.



Clearly a republican opened the box and tampered with the ballots inside.



Ok, someone used a bag. Ballots found, no harm no foul here.

But I bet the bag idea was from a republican.

This is good stuff!

1. WHO reviews the ballots if not the canvassing board?

I will admit that neither of us really have enough info to continue on this one, though, because it only says that he ordered the workers to not count them at all. It could be speculated that they were just set aside never to be touched again or reviewed OR it could be speculated that his intention was to have them reviewed. But, since it is just speculation, can we agree that this would actually show no real evidence of wrongdoing by anyone?

2. Again, honestly we don't know what really happened. If we take the Dem's actions at face value, as you have done, then we must also take the Republican's word at face value, which would condemn the Democrat(?) worker.

But, I am not willing to do that. Can we again agree that there is really no EVIDENCE here?

"clearly a Republican opened the box and tampered with the ballots inside"

I can certainly see where it says this in the article.... NOT! There is no evidence here either.

All I was trying to say with my comment was that "the door swings both ways".

We have many REPORTS of alleged Republican wrongdoings, but no solid evidence. This shows that there are REPORTS of alleged Democrat wrongdoings, but no solid evidence.

Now, take your speculation and beliefs about THIS article and try and see them 180 degrees differently and you will understand how *I* feel about the rest of the *evidence* that is floating around.

No real evidence.

But, I DO stand by my statement that if this article had indicated Republicans in the Democrats positions and Democrats in the Republicans positions, you AND many others here would point to that as absolute evidence of Republican fraud. So, while I find it rather humorous, I am not surprised that you would still see this as proof of Republican fraud.

I am reminded that someone here posted that I would not believe that fraud existed even if solid proof were found. That is patently false. However, is it OK if I have the same doubts about others in the opposite direction?

Well, of course its republican fraud.

Everyone knows that all republicans are criminals, and all democrats are law-abiding citizens.

Sheesh, where have you been?



p.s. my last post was overly sarcastic, so much so that I thought you would have gotten the joke. Especially on #3. But I guess I should not assume anything ...

Yes, I do believe the door swings both ways, but how many times in each direction, and who's doing the counting? LOL... look..there's bullsh** from both sides, but I've got to be honest...

The majority of the problems in the presidential elections favor Bush. This raises my suspicions a tad bit higher about the Repubs.

The lies the repubs tell to the public, raises my suspicions a tad bit higher about the Repubs.

If I had to take one persons word over the other right now, I'd take the word of a Democrat, plain and simple.

Just my opinion, but it does have a basis to fall back on.

Gee sounds like Fl. in 2000 all over again, now the shoe is on the other foot

Ya. I think we all need to be careful and not take anything for granted. I have seen far too many people here who WOULD have posted something like your response, but been 100% serious.

I was beginning to get a little worried there....

See, and my typical response to that is: Do the majority of problems favor Bush? Do even the majority of problems that have been reported favor Bush? I don't know and I certainly am not going to count them. And, then the remaining question would have to be: wouldn't it make sense that the majority of reported problems are always going to *favor* the winner? Why would the winner's party be looking for, or reporting any problems?

And, honestly, I would take the word of the average turnip over that of ANY politician.

Yes, but strangely you only accept as "truth" the stories that question Democrats.

In your own words, "Question everything!"

Perhaps you missed my previous post where I even said that, in this case, there certainly was not enough evidence to point the finger at Democrats....

Gee, bross,

Thanks for throwing us poor heathens a bone!

VERY generous of you!

I get attacked if I don't agree, I get attacked if I do.....

That's because you choose to agree or not agree based on clearly partisan reasoning. I'm not upset with you bross. But it's a little silly for you to keep pretending you have an unbiased state of mind in all this. You have all but twisted yourself into a pretzel trying to disprove facts pointing to Republican fraud. When, at last, the smallest bit of possible Democratic fraud comes to light, you exclaim with delight, " the door swings both ways ".

Yes, now go find that door, and don't let it hit you on the way out!

Well, that would all sound good, except for the part in THIS thread where I indicated that there was not enough evidence to support blaming the Democrats in the article.

So, your statement that I "agree or not agree based on clearly partisan reasoning" just went out the window.

"Yes, now go find that door, and don't let it hit you on the way out! "

And if I were a Republican, is this your way of saying that 'Republicans are not welcome here?'

I second the motion.

It would do no good to ban the likes of him, for he would just reappear under a different personna. Anyway, we are a democratic group and unlike the freepers, we do allow other opinions, even if we choose not to agree.

Better move quickly before someones no. 10 steel-toed boot gives that door a little acceleration.

As someone who has repeatedly tried to paint himself as a fair minded and objective, yet opiniated observer of events, you should be ashamed of yourself for letting your remarks portray you as the partisan that you are so often accused in this forum of being.

Your characterization of things clearly cannot be separated from your predisposition to see through rose colored glasses on behalf of the Republicans, while you gladly accept an allegation as truth and defend it before all when the allegation is made against a Democrat or Democratic Party interests.

Your credibility is forever tarnished and you have caused me to percieve your opinions to be Republican diatribes.

To agree or defend a claim and then point out that you don't believe that the facts presented support it is VERY DIFFERENT than to relentlessly challenge a claim and then point out that you don't believe that the facts presented support it. The former is an action you take in opiniating on an allegation against a Democratic interest, and the latter is an action you take in opiniating on behalf of a Republican inrterest.

This is an easy one.

Just like it takes a true liberal to claim that the media is largely conservative or right-wing (and a serious right-winger to claim it is ALL liberal), any liberal would clearly call me a conservative. Because, a moderate, to a liberal, IS conservative.

So, of course the liberal voices here will see me as being partisan and they believe that THEY are the ones who are objective.

If I posted these same things at Free Republic, I would be called a liberal and be shunned.... oh wait, I DID do that and I WAS called a liberal and I WAS shunned.....

The funny thing is: extremists of ANY view are generally wrong. Ever wonder why the vast majority of Americans are moderates? Actually even with slightly conservative leanings?

I have to sit quietly through Republican blather on the nightly news.
I have to sit quietly through Republican blather when I read the newspaper.
I have to sit quietly through Republican blather when I listen to Bush Inc. giving the latest speil on whatever.

I would like, at the very least, to not have to sit quietly through Republican blather on a website clearly catering to Democrats, Independents, and the like.

So, yes...it is my way of saying Republicans are not welcome here.

Now you know how it feels.

Where in my remarks did I apply the labels that you offer: liberal & conservative?

I offered Republican & Democratic.

There is a growing and substantial volume of evidence to point to that suggests that the Republican Party is currently more activist and radical than the Democratic Party.

Further, I dare say that the definitions of Conservative & Liberal are also experiencing unprecedented redefinition by their misapplication in the media to political parties and their deeds.

Republicans like to frame public opinion of their activities in a historical sense. A view of their past 25 years of political action as being conservative is incompatible with the accepted meaning of such a word and contradicts reality when studying the complete history of the United States of America.

Finally, my criticism is about your activities in this forum when compared to your activities in this forum [as evidenced in your history of posts that are readily available to any member of this forum for reference] so please don't attempt to bait me into a circular argument by ignoring my claims and responding to claims that I haven't made.