I was reading Maureen Dowd today and she said Hillary Clinton's chances at becoming president look a lot dimmer now. I presume that besides the presidential defeat she means the losses in the senate and congress.
I also got some really bad vibes at Mother Jones' discussion board about a President Hillary Clinton. They called her a lightning rod, which apparently is some really bad thing.
What is a lightning rod? Is it a lesbian like Karl Rove called Ann Richards in the whisper campaign he used to get G.W. Bush elected Governor of Texas?
Is it a communist which is bad for any one in these here United States of America to be.
Or is it someone who has firm convictions about what is right for this country and has the courage to express them?
I think it is the latter.

If she can convince women to vote for her, she wins. It mystifies me that women are still such a minority in both Houses of Congress, and women are the majority in the country. Possibly men keep the pro-life vs. pro-choice battle raging so women are constantly a divided force in politics.

I'd love Ann Richards, Barbara Boxer,Carol Mosely Brown as my president.


btw. there are nightmarish women(ie. Ann Coulter, Phyliss Schlafly, Babe Buchanan)
that I don't EVEN want in the same city as the White House,,,,,,ugh!

I really don't think Clinton has a snowball's chance of the presidency unless the neocons get so out of control in the swing to the right that even the moderate-conservatives are uncomfortable and the image the vast majority have of Clinton were to change such that she's seen as the bastion of rationality.

Despite all the hoopla about how open & pluralistic a society we have (or had) and the mass consumption* of sex and violence, this country still clings to its puritanical roots. There is still the knee-jerk reaction against the idea of a female president. It took until the 60's for us to have our first Catholic president. Obama Barack is the first person of color who has an actual chance at the Presidency (depending on how he makes his mark in the Senate). I'm not sure this country will ever be comfortable with someone who isn't Christian as President (or even VP). We still haven't ratified the ERA, so I'd be suprised if we had a real shot at a female president in the next 20 years. For a woman to have a chance at the presidency she'd have to be strong, charismatic, intelligent & articulate all without being perceived as threatening to men and women alike. That's a pretty tall order.


* if all these people are complaining out it why are the ratings and sales so high? Methinks the religious right protests too much

I think part of the pessimism comes from the realization, this last election, that there is still a great deal of ultra conservative thought in the country. It was surprising to see so many states ban same sex marriage and to those people a woman as president is just as outrageous.

Hillary has the respect of some women who are ready for a woman as president. She is the most known of all the possible candidates. Yet, many I know have remarked that Hillary lost their respect when she chose to stay married to Bill after the Lewinsky mess.

In reading her book about the White House years, I could see how she was preparing the ground for running and how she tried to explain her actions so that others would empathize with her. I guess only time will tell. I will support her if she chooses to run. However, I don't think she has the same charisma or charm that her husband has or the ability to warm up to the South.

I am not sure that she lost respect when she chose to stay married to Bill....women know, from the begin, when they are married to a "chaud lapin" and often just take it the way it is because there are other things important in their marriage (and on the long term, they win... in despite of Viagra! )
What I dislike in Hillary is her opportunism and lack of "natural": she is always on stage, trying to have both sides, in the same time.

My husband and I were talking a few days ago about how we'd love to have Ann Richards for president but decided that she's way to smart to even consider it. What a great lady she is!!!

I wish they'd ship those other three you mentioned (coulter, schlafly and buchanan) off to Fallujah. They are an absolute disgrace!

As far as Hillary, I will definitely support her if she runs and fortunately all of the men I know will as well. We just need to remind people that Bill will be with her so it would kind of be like reelecting him.

We'll just have to wait and see at this point though.

I think we have reached a point where a woman can be elected president. Now, whether that could happen in 2008 depends on a number of factors. The big one may be if the war is ongoing. I don't think a woman could be elected president during wartime.

I remember a program long ago about Hillary Rodham Clinton. In her highschool and early college days she was Republican. I found this from her biography on hwwilson.com database:

Despite her association with children from less-privileged backgrounds and her exposure to a variety of philosophies, Clinton remained, like her parents, staunchly Republican, campaigning enthusiastically for Barry Goldwater in the presidential campaign of 1964. After graduating in 1965 from Maine South High School in the top 5 percent of her class, which voted her the student most likely to succeed, Clinton enrolled at the all-female Wellesley College, near Boston, Massachusetts, where she promptly became head of the local chapter of the Young Republicans. It was not long, however, before the turbulence of the late 1960s reinforced the teachings of her youth minister and led her slowly leftward in her politics. The assassinations of Malcolm X in 1965 and of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy in 1968, coupled with the violence Clinton witnessed at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in the summer of 1968, dovetailed with her keen sense of social justice to convert her wholeheartedly to the Democratic party. She campaigned for Eugene McCarthy for president in 1968, worked to enroll more black students at Wellesley, organized the school's first teach-ins on the Vietnam War (which turned into antiwar protests), and wrote her senior thesis on poverty and community development.
In 1969 Clinton graduated from Wellesley with a bachelor's degree in political science. As president of the student government, she was selected by her classmates to deliver the school's first student commencement address, immediately following a speech by Senator Edward W. Brooke, a liberal Republican from Massachusetts. After shocking her audience by castigating Brooke for the irrelevance of his remarks, she spoke about her classmates' college experience in terms of what it had meant to them personally. "We are, all of us, exploring a world that none of us understands and attempting to create within that uncertainty," she told her fellow graduating seniors. "But there are some things we feel, feelings that our prevailing, acquisitive, and competitive corporate life, including, tragically, the universities, is not the way of life for us. We're searching for more immediate, ecstatic, and penetrating modes of living." Clinton's words and her photograph were published in Life magazine. The national publicity she received through the article and through her victories as a contestant on the television quiz show College Bowl enhanced her already impressive resume and helped to ensure that she would have her pick of the best law schools.

Yes, Hillary talks about her republican years in her auto-biography, but I had forgotten that. I like Ann Richards as well, she seems honest and on the ball.

I think there most certainly can be a woman president in the near future, if it's the right candidate. But Hillary is not that candidate; she simply irritates too many people - and not just sexist people or those who think "she's too uppity."

I bought Living History for my mother last Christmas.
I started reading some of it and I learned about Wellesley and Goldwater.
Goldwater they say was for gay rights, but I am always dubious about such things. It had been a long time since he had been in the spotlight.
It's really something how a war can change people, isn't it?

One woman wrote to my newspaper today complaining about the awful pictures on her TV screen. She blamed the messenger for the message.
That's another subject though.

I feel young women's excitement when we talk about a possible Hillary Clinton presidency. I don't know if it is the same for older women.

Don't you think it is something though that a woman hasn't run for president yet, in either party. Whoops, yes, I forgot, this year the former Senator from Illinois whose name escapes me right now. And I think Shirley Chisolm ran once. But there seems something of a racial bent in both candidacies. Like Al Sharpton's appearance as a candidate it was mostly for black advocacy.

And of course the republicans seldom have any dissent in their party so of course no woman will run there.

And with all the people screaming about the press who has noticed that no woman is mentioned to run for the republican nomination in 2008.

I think Sen. Clinton is very credible as a candidate in 2008.

She doesn't get on my nerves. I have never cared about women who can make oatmeal cookies. I like intelligent women and she is one. She is a rather comely woman as well.

But really I feel kind of over politicized right now.

Maybe I like Hillary Clinton because I once hailed from New York.
Now I live in Florida.

I think there is something in this North/South thing going on, too.

I would like to see a woman become president of the United States.

Maybe the war will have something to do with it.

I wonder if there will be more war. In Iran or Columbia.

Of course, a woman can be elected president, possibly even Hillary Clinton. But, before that happens the electorate as a whole needs to see that the candidate is willing to represent both genders, not just woman's issues. It's really not that difficult, but it would take some guts. Any female candidate willing to run, while publicly supporting that in the absence of wrongdoing, both parents ought to be allowed to share meaningful time with their kid(s), would go a long way towards earning the respect of men.

It's not like the bar is being set too high for women. All we need is for some of them to step up to demand what is right. Shoot, I'd prefer to have a lady president, but only as long as she thought both parents should be meaningful parts of kids' lives. Unfortunately, I have not seen those ladies running for president. That remainder can not be respected.

Can someone please tell me why the discussion of any female candidate for President is discussed under 'women's issues'?

I see all and sundry names raised and discussed on the 'general' board yet as soon as Clinton's name is mentioned it becomes a 'women's issue'? WTF?
I didn't notice the Barak Obama threads being moved to 'ethnic issues' or Max Clelland topics shifted to 'candidates with disabilities'.

If we, the so called 'enlightened' types, marginalize the mere discourse of a female president to a 'special interest group', do you really think this country is ready to elect one? We won't be ready until gender becomes irrelevant. I prefer to refer to her as Senator Clinton - presidential contender, not Hillary - Bill's long suffering wife.

Could a woman run this country? Absolutely! Can one get elected? Not with the current mindset.

One woman wrote to my newspaper today complaining about the awful pictures on her TV screen. She blamed the messenger for the message.
That's another subject though.

I feel young women's excitement when we talk about a possible Hillary Clinton presidency. I don't know if it is the same for older women.

Don't you think it is something though that a woman hasn't run for president yet, in either party. Whoops, yes, I forgot, this year the former Senator from Illinois whose name escapes me right now.


Do you mean Carol Mosley-Braun?

I think there is a backlash taking place right now in this country against feminists or "women's issues." During the Clinton presidency, women were much more "out there" with their viewpoints without having to be worried about being called un-patriotic or un-Christian. We live in a patriarcal society. Men (and a lot of women) don't like the idea of women becoming too "powerful." Despite Bush's "W stands for women" crap, he and his "regime" are the most backward administration to be in the office since the 1950's. The pendulum has to swing back in the other direction before we can even consider a woman winning the presidency. And that could take another 20 years.

The far right will be teaching kids the world is flat long before we see a woman president.

Never going to happen in my lifetime, sad to say. Not with all the red staters wanting daddies to protect them. I am serious.

I dont think there will be a woman president until there first has been a woman vice-president, and I hope Hillary is not that woman, there are woman far stronger, and more at home with the common people then Hillary.

Now I remember where I saw the word "uppity" used here! I used that same word recently on the "Do you think" thread and CeilidhSeisuns thought I was making a sexist remark. Sexist people call strong women "uppity" to discredit them. I see. hmmmmm! It appears we have consensus here that a woman will not be elected president of the U.S, in the near future. It's still "The Good 'Ole Boys Club" and we all remember how they grilled Anita Baker. Women in America are tolerated in politics as long as they don't get too "uppity".

It's the Good 'ole Boys who are the uppity ones. Damned old cockers! I hope we have a woman president soon and it would be even better if she is Afro-American. I am not thinking about Bush's "Sweetness" either!

It's the same thing in business. I've been criticized for often getting along well with the boys and being an unoffical member of the boys club. I've never been much for blaming my position on being female and tend to prefer the boys in business (because many of the women are stuck in Junior High) but I'm fully aware that I'd probably be a VP if my cojones were literal instead of figurative. There are many people (male and female) who cannot handle a woman who in business (or politics) is one of the boys. This is why the only woman that will have a chance at the Presidency will have to be shrewd and charismatic enough that sheis perceived as threatening to men or women.

So Angry I Could Spit, don't let the turkeys get you down! Here's an old song that vents in a way that I feel about this topic.
KT



"Look What They've Done To My Song, Ma"

(As recorded by Melanie)
MELANIE SAFKA

Look what they've done to my song, ma
Look what they've done to my song
Well it's the only thing that I could do half right
And it's turning out all wrong, ma
Look what they've done to my song.

Look what they've done to my brain, ma
Look what they've done to my brain
Well they picked it like a chicken bone
And I think I'm half insane, ma
Look what they've done to my song.

I wish I could find a good book to live in
Wish I could find a good book
Will if I cold find a real good book
I'd never have to come out and look
Look what they've done to my song.

It'll be all right ma, maybe it'll be okay
Well if the people are buying tears I'll be rich someday, ma
Look what they've done to my song.

Ils ont change ma chanson ma
Ils ont change ma chanson
C'est la seule chose que je peuz faire
Et ce n'est pas bon ma
Ils ont change ma chanson.

Look what they've done to my song, ma
Look what they've done to my song
Well they tied it up in a plastic bag and they turned it upside down
Look what they've done to my song, ma.

Look what they've done to my song, ma
Look what they've done to my song
It's the only thing I could do all right and they turned it upside down
Look what they've done to my song, ma.

© Copyright 1970 by Kama Rippa Music, Inc. and Amerlanie Music, Inc. All rights
administered by Kama Rippa Music, Inc., 1650 Broadway, New York, New York 10019.

I agree. I think it will be very difficult for a woman to win the presidency during a time of war and ongoing terrorist threats. Apparently, 59 million voters thought that Kerry wasn't sufficiently prepared to confront terrorism and Iraq! What does that tell you? Also, in terms of Hilliary, I think she comes with too much baggage from Bill and the "Lewinsky business". I don't know, but we have Arnold calling Kerry a girlie-man, which speaks volumes about how many Americans feel about women in general-not up to a "man's" job! Disgusting and disheartening, in my opinion.

Well, I'm gonna blow all you pea-picking minds!

I have been thinking lately about this particular subject and here's my Tenn draw on it,

• Who was your Maa?
• Who carried you and feed you?
• who did you come to 80% of the time when you had a problem?
• who fixed most of your problems: Maa or Paa?
• who do you still hug today without embarsement?
• Just watch "Mr. MOM" one time, could you do that everyday and be sane?

Sounds like great credentials to me as a Head of State, but the cramps will have to go

SADLY, I remember hearing this song on the radio when I was but a wee tot

If Hillary was to take the fight up to Bush regarding the massive voter fraud in Ohio, New Mexico, Florida etc... she would be a shoe-in for '08.

Even though any chance of the worst president in history being denied a second term on January 20 is extremely remote, in four years the truth should be well and truly out there. She would have stuck her neck out and been proven to be correct.

If she doesn't say "Boo!" about what happened on November 2nd, she is not presidential material. It's as simple as that!

Come on Hillary, take these slimy-fascist-nutcases on!

Hilary is not the woman for the US, she alienates too many men and women alike.

Yes, would be my answer to, "can there be a woman president" but not Hillary Clinton. I will predict right now that the first women, as well as African American, president will be Condoleeza Rice.

And she's got my vote.

Don't see a woman as President for at least another 50 years

If this election taught us one thing the church rules

They only want white men in power

That is interseting, seeing that this President has put more minorities in power than any President in the past. If churches only wanted white men in power GWB is not their man.

Yes, Bush has included minorities in cabinet positions and that's a good thing. But we are talking about ELECTING a president, and I don't think this country is yet ready for a woman or a person from any ethnic or religious minority. I wish we were ready, but unfortunately,I think it will take some time. I would vote for anyone I feel is qualified regardless of their race, religion or anything else!. But, I would not vote for Condi Rice because I don't like her foreign policy positions and I don't feel she is her own person. I won't vote for Hiliary Clinton either, because she gave Bush the red light to go into Iraq so I worry about her foreign policy positions and I think she's too worried about what the voters think rather than being independent minded. Barak Obama is the man to watch, in my opinion.

All things are relative. Perhaps Hillary would not win a Presidential election today, but if the economy continues to tank, jobs continue to leave the US, health insurance is dropped from employer offered benefits, health care prices continue to rise, military entaglements continue to deplete our resources, SSI is dismantled through bankruptcy, and citizen's feel deprived of their rights, then .....YES... .. I think she could win.

Well, I doubt much you folks will like my answer. I think absolutly a women (or minority) can win, but I don't think from the Democratic party (at least not at this time). Now, before you start throwing things at me, think about it: women are a fairly large base for Democrats. Having a female run would, at least I think, partly chip away at this base and give the Republicans a tilt. However, if the women is a Democrat, well, Democrats already get the majority of the female votes--I don't know that a women Democrat would be able to get the votes needed to win.

Obviously, either situation would depend on an almost infinite amount of variables, but thats how I tend to see it at this stage of the game...just my two cents.