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Activisms
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...2504madsen.html

QUOTE
"November 25, 2004—According to informed sources in Washington and Houston, the Bush campaign spent some $29 million to pay polling place operatives around the country to rig the election for Bush. The operatives were posing as Homeland Security and FBI agents but were actually technicians familiar with Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S, Triad, Unilect, and Danaher Controls voting machines. These technicians reportedly hacked the systems to skew the results in favor of Bush.



The leak about the money and the rigged election apparently came from technicians who were promised to be paid a certain amount for their work but the Bush campaign interlocutors reneged and some of the technicians are revealing the nature of the vote rigging program.



There have been media reports from around the country concerning the locking down of precincts while votes were being tallied. In one unprecedented action in Warren County, Ohio, election officials locked down the facility where votes were being counted. The officials said this was in response to a Level 10 high-threat terrorist warning being issued by the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI for Warren County. George Bush won 72 percent of the vote in Warren County, much larger than his percentage of victory statewide.



The money to rig the election in favor of Bush reportedly came from an entity called Five Star Trust, largely based in Houston but a worldwide entity that is directly tied to the Saudi Royal Family. Five Star Trust was termed "a well-protected vehicle" that has been used to support both Bush and Osama bin Laden in the US and around the world.



Other money used to fund the election rigging was from siphoned Enron money stored away in accounts in the Cook Islands, which was once the base of one of the more questionable and Saudi-linked BCCI subsidiaries. Cook Islands banks also handled some of the weapons smuggling financing of the Iran-Contra scandal. A former Justice Department attorney who helped prosecute the BCCI case said the use of the Cook Islands by the Bush reelection team indicates they wanted the bank arrangements to be a "quick folding tent" operation that would cease to exist when the election was over. He said the Cook Islands was notorious for not requiring any documentation for such operations.


In fact, the Cook Islands has been a favorite location for various covert intelligence activities. This most recent use of the islands is a continuation of a scandal discovered in New Zealand in the early '90s called the "Winebox Affair." In 1992, a computer dealer named Paul White bought some secondhand computers and floppy disks from the Citibank office in Auckland, New Zealand, that had earlier sold them to a scrap dealer.



White later discovered the floppies (and 10 paper files) detailed a scheme to use the European Pacific Bank in the Cook Islands to bilk foreign governments and banks for a phony 15 percent tax bill assessed on various transactions by the Cook Islands government (at the time run by Tom Davis, a former US Army and NASA research scientist who was allegedly on the payroll of the CIA). European Pacific reaped millions of illegal dollars from the New Zealand Treasury and a number of Japanese banks, including Mitsubishi Bank. Paul White later died in a suspicious auto accident."


Boom, shish can blam. FBI is reporting that companies, largely CyberNet related paid for students and GOP operatives disguised as election and otherwise officials, rigged the machines on purpose and were paid directly from higher up to rig them.
Vidar
I hope you're right Activisms, But I fear Bush will hide this like his hero Hitler did with all those pesky death camps.
Activisms
QUOTE(Vidar @ Nov 25 2004, 05:48 AM)
I hope you're right Activisms, But I fear Bush will hide this like his hero Hitler did with all those pesky death camps.
*


Bush can't hide very easy when all activist groups are now on his ass, and Russia is watching. Plus if Karl Rove goes down, who's willing to bet Bush's dirty hands will be in it too somewhere
periwinkle
This sounds like a movie script. If it's true, it would make Watergate seem like a picnic in the park. How do we know this didn't come from a "tin-foil-hat-wearing blogger" (as mainstream media would say)? If the feebees are blabbing to this guy, why aren't they blabbing to CNN or MSNBC or the New York Times? I really, really, really, really hope this isn't the product of someone's imagination because the final scene would be George, Dick, Karl and company doing the "perp" walk.
Activisms
QUOTE(periwinkle @ Nov 25 2004, 07:37 AM)
This sounds like a movie script.  If it's true, it would make Watergate seem like a picnic in the park.  How do we know this didn't come from a "tin-foil-hat-wearing blogger" (as mainstream media would say)?  If the feebees are blabbing to this guy, why aren't they blabbing to CNN or MSNBC or the New York Times?  I really, really, really, really hope this isn't the product of someone's imagination because the final scene would be George, Dick, Karl and company doing the "perp" walk.
*


Because the new york times are run by fascists and we have no idea if these guys would dare risk themselves for that, or if they start calling foul to reporters across the board on the net and then, leaked to Keith O. and that makes the story hold all the more water so the GOP can't stop the overflow.
periwinkle
Where are Woodward and Bernstein when we need them??
rox63
Here's the whole article:

Saudis, Enron money helped pay for US rigged election
By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer

November 25, 2004—According to informed sources in Washington and Houston, the Bush campaign spent some $29 million to pay polling place operatives around the country to rig the election for Bush. The operatives were posing as Homeland Security and FBI agents but were actually technicians familiar with Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S, Triad, Unilect, and Danaher Controls voting machines. These technicians reportedly hacked the systems to skew the results in favor of Bush.

The leak about the money and the rigged election apparently came from technicians who were promised to be paid a certain amount for their work but the Bush campaign interlocutors reneged and some of the technicians are revealing the nature of the vote rigging program.

There have been media reports from around the country concerning the locking down of precincts while votes were being tallied. In one unprecedented action in Warren County, Ohio, election officials locked down the facility where votes were being counted. The officials said this was in response to a Level 10 high-threat terrorist warning being issued by the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI for Warren County. George Bush won 72 percent of the vote in Warren County, much larger than his percentage of victory statewide.

The money to rig the election in favor of Bush reportedly came from an entity called Five Star Trust, largely based in Houston but a worldwide entity that is directly tied to the Saudi Royal Family. Five Star Trust was termed "a well-protected vehicle" that has been used to support both Bush and Osama bin Laden in the US and around the world.

Other money used to fund the election rigging was from siphoned Enron money stored away in accounts in the Cook Islands, which was once the base of one of the more questionable and Saudi-linked BCCI subsidiaries. Cook Islands banks also handled some of the weapons smuggling financing of the Iran-Contra scandal. A former Justice Department attorney who helped prosecute the BCCI case said the use of the Cook Islands by the Bush reelection team indicates they wanted the bank arrangements to be a "quick folding tent" operation that would cease to exist when the election was over. He said the Cook Islands was notorious for not requiring any documentation for such operations.

In fact, the Cook Islands has been a favorite location for various covert intelligence activities. This most recent use of the islands is a continuation of a scandal discovered in New Zealand in the early '90s called the "Winebox Affair." In 1992, a computer dealer named Paul White bought some secondhand computers and floppy disks from the Citibank office in Auckland, New Zealand, that had earlier sold them to a scrap dealer.

White later discovered the floppies (and 10 paper files) detailed a scheme to use the European Pacific Bank in the Cook Islands to bilk foreign governments and banks for a phony 15 percent tax bill assessed on various transactions by the Cook Islands government (at the time run by Tom Davis, a former US Army and NASA research scientist who was allegedly on the payroll of the CIA). European Pacific reaped millions of illegal dollars from the New Zealand Treasury and a number of Japanese banks, including Mitsubishi Bank. Paul White later died in a suspicious auto accident.

As detailed in the book "The Paradise Conspiracy" by New Zealand journalist Ian Wishart, the Cook Islands scheme also involved several CIA operatives, including Lawrence John Fahey, who had an interest in InterAir of Nevada, one of the airlines used by Ollie North to funnel arms to Iran. It also involved William Raupe, a CIA officer stationed under cover as a USAID employee at the US embassy in Suva. Raupe had once worked for Air America in South East Asia. Another CIA agent active in the Cooks was Robert C. Allen, known to New Zealand authorities as a US agent who was formerly with the CIA proprietary firm Bishop, Baldwin, Dillingham, Wong Ltd. In addition, along with the late former Treasury Secretary William Simon, Gerald Parsky was also involved in the European Pacific Bank's Cook Islands operations. Parsky is George W. Bush's chief fundraiser and adviser in California (he led Bush's 2000 California campaign) and supported Simon's son's unsuccessful bid for the governorship of California against Gray Davis and then again in the recall of Davis. Enron was involved early on with Arnold Schwarzenegger at a meeting in 2001 at the Beverly Hills Hotel at the same time Enron was bilking California utility customers with increases as high as 1000 percent This scheme eventually led to Davis's recall and his replacement by Schwarzenegger.

The Cook Islands-Citibank-European Pacific fraud appeared to have been cooked up to take the place of other "outed" CIA banking activities, including Nugan Hand Bank in Australia. European Pacific also involved assets of BCCI, in particular the Commercial Bank of Commerce in Rarotonga, Cook Islands, a BCCI subsidiary. MIchael Hand, a former Green Beret who reportedly served with Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage in Laos (and whose partner, Frank Nugan, was found shot to death in 1980 in Australia) later turned up associated with Euromac (European Manufacturing Center) Ltd., a British company that tried to sell nuclear trigger krytrons to Saddam Hussein before the first Gulf War. Nugan Hand's chief counsel, William Colby, a former CIA Director, was found floating in the Chesapeake in 1996.

The sale of nuclear material to Iraq was funded through Saudi operations in Houston, including those associated with George H. W. Bush, George W. Bush, James R. Bath, and Saudis Abdullah Taha Baksh, and Kamal Adham, as well as Lebanese businessman Ghaith Pharaon (who was also involved in the collapse of Miami's CenTrust S&L, a bank that had ties to Jeb Bush). This gang, along with Salem Bin Laden, the older brother of Osama, funneled over $1 million into failed Bush ventures, including Arbusto, Spectrum 7, and Harken Energy. Some of the Saudi money also financed Enron Oil and Gas Resources (later EOG Resources) in the Belspec Fusselman Field in Midland, Texas, a deal in which George W. Bush had a financial stake. In fact, Saudi planes in the 1980s landed in Houston with mountains of cash used to buy nuclear material for Saddam to possibly use against the Iranians. The money was laundered through Houston's Main Bank, a bank close to the Bush family. Skyway Aircraft of Houston, owned by Bath, was invested in by Abu Dhabi's ruler (the main owner of BCCI) and whose parent company in the Cayman Islands was used by Ollie North to collect foreign money for his Iran-contra enterprise.

Another person involved in the Cook Islands bank defrauding scheme was a Lebanese-American named Samir Bashout (alias Dr. Khalaf B. Bashout) who set up Midland International Bank and Trust Ltd in the Cook Islands with no real capital. Bashout's Midland had nothing to do with Midland Bank of the UK but may have been named for Midland, Texas, of George W. Bush fame. Bashout was later convicted of beating his wife in Rancho Park, Calif., amid a nasty divorce. She claimed he secreted away much of his money. Bashout's Metro Bank (Philippines) account in Los Angeles was found to contain only $10,000, not the $10 million he claimed to Cook Islands' authorities. US Treasury agent John Shockey alerted the Cook Islands internal auditor to Bashout's repeated attempts to bounce a check for $5 million. In January 2002, Hamilton Bank failed after it lost $500 million due to loan scandals and money laundering charges. The recipient of a $5.5 million loan was Metro Bank International, headquartered in Vanuatu, an offshore banking location similar to the Cook Islands. Metro Bank was thought to contain some of the billions of dollars laundered by the CIA and the Cook Islands International Trust Corp. on behalf of Ferdinand Marcos. Marcos's CIA intermediaries in the Cooks were Eldon William Morris, James Centers, and Dante Dominigo Agdeppa. Morris was under investigation by the Queensland Special Branch and the FBI in Hawaii and California.

Bashout was also involved in the defunct World Arabic Television News (WATN), an Arabic television network that attracted the attention of the Houston-based Arab Times newspaper as not delivering on its promises and defrauding investors.



Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based investigative reporter. He was also the Operations Officer at Naval Facility Coos Head, Oregon from 1980 to 1982 and assisted the FBI and NIS in the investigation as a temporary special agent.
FormerCIA
QUOTE(periwinkle @ Nov 25 2004, 08:45 AM)
Where are Woodward and Bernstein when we need them??
*


What, and risk their cushy lifestyle? You need some young turk out to make a name.

I'll believe this article when I see some perps get rolled-up. <_<
nnrecrut
QUOTE(rox63 @ Nov 25 2004, 07:45 AM)
Here's the whole article:

Saudis, Enron money helped pay for US rigged election

*



This is interesting, thanks for posting.
EvelyninTexas
Surely there is someone who would investigate this. Hey, send it to Dan Rather, let him go out in a blaze of glory!
DonC
QUOTE(Activisms @ Nov 25 2004, 04:09 AM)
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...2504madsen.html
Boom, shish can blam. FBI is reporting that companies, largely CyberNet related paid for students and GOP operatives disguised as election and otherwise officials, rigged the machines on purpose and were paid directly from higher up to rig them.
*


Ok, this is fantasy.
I don't see anywhere in the article that it says "FBI is reporting..."

it says "...sources are reporting..." and that the bad guys "...posed as FBI..."

pretty lame, I'd say. How do scammers get away with posing as FBI and Homeland Security agents? Mighty big op, lots of people, lots of fake id's. Why didn't we hear about a "level 1 high-threat terrorist warning" in Warren County?
Somebody find a reference to that in the local news at the time, please.
nnrecrut
I am skeptical about the article. Is anyone familiar with Wayne Madsen? He has written several books attacking Rove and the Bush administration's policies, etc. He co-authored "Forbidden Truth" about the Bin Laden family that was banned in Switzerland.
skeeter
QUOTE(DonC @ Nov 25 2004, 09:33 AM)
Ok, this is fantasy.
I don't see anywhere in the article that it says "FBI is reporting..."

it says "...sources are reporting..." and that the bad guys "...posed as FBI..."

pretty lame, I'd say. How do scammers get away with posing as FBI and Homeland Security agents? Mighty big op, lots of people, lots of fake id's. Why didn't we hear about a "level 1 high-threat terrorist warning"  in Warren County?
Somebody find a reference to that in the local news at the time, please.
*


The Warren County lockdown was covered, just maybe not extensively:

From CincinnatiEnquirer.com

and FYI, officials claimed it was a "level 10"...NOT a level 1.

Also wasn't there something posted about teaching college kids how to break the Diebold code? I'll try to find that link too.
DonC
QUOTE(skeeter @ Nov 25 2004, 08:50 AM)
The Warren County lockdown was covered, just maybe not extensively:

From CincinnatiEnquirer.com

and FYI, officials claimed it was a "level 10"...NOT a level 1.

Also wasn't there something posted about teaching college kids how to break the Diebold code?  I'll try to find that link too.
*



The "1" was my typo, sorry...
thanks for the link; I was getting nowhere searching.

interesting that they say the FBI told them their threat level was a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10 - that is - no friggin threat - and they opted to say "we need to lock down because we are at threat level 10" as if 10 were a whole lot more than, say, a million. So yeah, they were looking for excuses to keep their activities private. We all know (ok, suspect strongly) that there were shenanigans, and the folks running the process (read republicans) wanted to suppress democratic voting and avoid scrutiny any way they could. So this piece of the article does point out a tidbit of substantiation of that. I still am highly skeptical of the quotes of "sources" until more concrete evidence comes out (like, say the "sources" going public), which I fervently hope happens, despite my current skepticism
FormerCIA
QUOTE(nnrecrut @ Nov 25 2004, 09:38 AM)
I am skeptical about the article. Is anyone familiar with Wayne Madsen?  He has written several books attacking Rove and the Bush administration's policies, etc.  He co-authored "Forbidden Truth" about the Bin Laden family that was banned in Switzerland.
*


I tried feeding Wayne some good info a while back and he clammed-up tight. As soon as you get information that might send someone to jail, he won't touch it. A lot of these so called sources are probably cut-outs for Karl Rove.
Dyan
I would just like to know WHO those people in Warren, OH, were. Both the FBI and Homeland Security say it wasn't them, and it's pretty certain that someone (or several someones) DID present themselves as being FBI and Homeland.

So that begs the question............. who WERE they and why isn't that aspect being investigated by both the FBI and Homeland Security??? And how did they have enough information and credetials to fool election officials?

I'd have a whole lot more faith in my government if they'd take action on something this obvious. If it wasn't our government, then who was it? And why did they do this? This is pretty important for many reasons. AND why isn't this on the national media? It's a story that on it's face doesn't have anything to do with rigging the election.



.............. well, no more than that third rate burglary had to do with Nixon. *winks and grins*
searchingforsanity
This is a bombshell! I want to see if and when it makes its way to the mainstream media. It's definitely worth following. Found some interesting comments on the DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...3&mesg_id=78323
BamaBecky
That information makes me admire Madsen more.................
starrygalore
QUOTE(DonC @ Nov 25 2004, 10:33 AM)
Ok, this is fantasy.
I don't see anywhere in the article that it says "FBI is reporting..."

it says "...sources are reporting..." and that the bad guys "...posed as FBI..."

pretty lame, I'd say. How do scammers get away with posing as FBI and Homeland Security agents? Mighty big op, lots of people, lots of fake id's. Why didn't we hear about a "level 1 high-threat terrorist warning"  in Warren County?
Somebody find a reference to that in the local news at the time, please.
*


Actually, the Warren County lockdown is true. Here is a Google News Search that lists many many articles about this: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q...County+lockdown

Here's an article from the Cincinatti Enquirer:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...20370/1020/EDIT
searchingforsanity
The Warren County lockdown was in the news election night and the following day then just dropped. First reports said it was a terror threat warning from the FBI. By the next day the FBI denied issuing the warning. I'm not sure what became of the story, but it's strange.
Mason50
How reliable is this? How reliable is this Web Site? I haven't heard anything from any of the media about this.
MrJim
Uh oh...

I take it that most people here are sort of novices to the whole conspiracy world. This article rings very true in many of its assertions. For example, the Nugen-Hand bank in Australia was the primary bank in which the CIA laundered its drug money from its opium operations in Laos and Cambodia. The drug money was used to finance the illegal wars in Laos and Cambodia while Viet Nam was raging. The CIA backed single warlords in each country, allowing the warlords to gain monopolies on the opium growing and harvesting. The CIA provided arms, training, and a market for the opium. In return, the warlords supplied the CIA with a lot of opium, which was processed into heroin, and shipped back to the United States in caskets. Yes, caskets supposedly holding the remains of dead GIs from Viet Nam. The heroin was then sold to various organized crime families for distribution in the US ghettos.

Although I have never read any articles or books on the issue, it seems obvious to me that the US ghettos are exploited as big markets for drugs and guns by white people in power in this country. This does two things -- one, it avoids the riots that swept the ghettos in the 1960s. People don't riot when they are high, or are desparately looking for their next high. Add gangs and guns to the mix, and the ghettos become a shooting gallery where the minorities are killing each other, rather than organizing and challenging the system. In the meanwhile, a lot of people in power become enormously wealthy on the drug and gun trade to the ghettos. Perfect -- for any racist fascist. Make huge sums of money while simultaneously destroying the "lesser races".

The Nugan-Hand bank story broke in Australia and caused a massive scandal in that country, although almost no news of it was reported in the US. The ruling party had a big hand in the scandal, and elections were held, in which the Labor party won big time. But the CIA intervened and threw the election to the ruling party, who remained in power. Yes, the CIA threw an election in Australia. The story is actually documented in a major Hollywood movie -- "The Falcon and the Snowman".

Most of the POWS / MIAS left in Viet Nam were NOT left in Viet Nam -- they were left in Laos and Cambodia. Our government did not want them returned, because they were involved in the illegal war / drug trade, and they would blow the whole thing sky high. Ross Perot actually tried forming a private army to go get the POWS / MIAS out, but was thwarted at every turn by the US Government. He was subjected to all kinds of harrassment, black ops, etc. This is why he was so paranoid during the 1992 presidential debates -- he had GOOD REASON to be paranoid. And they came after him during the campaign -- threatening his family. When he tried talking about it during the presidential debates, everybody branded him a lunatic. Ross Perot's involvement in the POW / MIA situation is well documented in the book "Kiss the Boys Goodbye".

The CIA used the drug trade again to finance its war in Central America during the 1980s. This time the drug was cocaine. The CIA's cocaine connections were well documented in a series of articles in the San Jose Mercury News. However, most people ignored the articles, and the discussion was rapidly shut down by the Government.

Now the CIA is at it again in Afghanistan, back with its old favorite -- opium / heroin.
Buster0001
What about that guy from the New York Times that had the big
fight with O'Reilly. Krugman or something like that?
Lcyberlina
Please consider the sources and their credibility before posting.

There is absolutely no evidence presented in the article posted and it damages the credibility of those REALLY working hard to prove there were irregularities.

I understand that most people here are very eager to find the 'smoking gun', but take a moment and examine the sources. The internet is a great place to get informed, but it is also a great place to get misinformed.
searchingforsanity
Over at DU there are a few post by people familiar with the writer's work for Global Research. So I did a search at their site and it seems he has written extensively for them:

http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&lr=&ie=...obalresearch.ca

http://www.globalresearch.ca/about/
About the Centre for Research on Globalization
The Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG) is an independent research and media group of progressive writers, scholars and activists committed to curbing the tide of "globalisation" and "disarming" the New World Order. The CRG webpage at http://globalresearch.ca based in Montréal publishes news articles, commentary, background research and analysis on a broad range of issues, focussing on the interrelationship between social, economic, strategic, geopolitical and environmental processes.


CRG Statement
The Centre's objective is to unveil the workings of the New World Order.

War and globalization go hand in hand, leading, in the post Cold War era, to the destruction of countries and the impoverishment of hundreds of millions of people. In turn, this global economic system is marked by an unprecedented concentration of private wealth. The institutions of war, police repression and economic management interface with one another. NATO is not only in liaison with the Pentagon and the CIA, it also has contacts with the IMF and the World Bank. In turn, the Washington based international financial bureaucracy, responsible for imposing deadly "economic medicine" on developing countries has close ties to the Wall Street financial establishment.

The powers behind this system are those of the global banks and financial institutions, the military-industrial complex, the oil and energy giants, the biotech conglomerates and the powerful media and communications giants, which fabricate the news and overtly distorts the course of world events. In turn, the police apparatus represses, in the name of "Western democracy", all forms of dissent and critique of the dominant neoliberal ideology.

This "false consciousness" which pervades our societies, prevents critical debate and masks the truth. Ultimately, this false consciousness precludes a collective understanding of the workings of a World economic and political system, which destroys people's lives. The only promise of global capitalism is a World of landless farmers, shuttered factories, jobless workers and gutted social programs with "bitter economic medicine" under the WTO and the IMF constituting the only prescription.

The New World Order is based on the "false consensus" of Washington and Wall Street, which ordains the "free market system" as the only possible choice on the fated road to a "global prosperity". The CRG purports to reveal the truth and disarm the falsehoods conveyed by the controlled corporate media.

Michel Chossudovsky,
Editor

29 August 2001
Smartcor
Interesting informationg If it is true then all of this is much worse than Watergate and hopefully they will all be removed from office.
JediKnight
:o This is absolutely huge news!! Everybody needs to start emailing the media about this now!!
FormerCIA
Back in the early 70's, I became friends with a couple of ex Air America (CIA) employees that had worked out of Laos. They told me that they used to fly into Burma one or twice a week with a load of gold and silver bars and bring back Opium which was shipped out, they said for processing into "pharmaceuticals". I never saw them do a lick of work in the two years that I knew them but they always had plenty of money to spend. Make your own conclusions. <_<
farmerTom
QUOTE(FormerCIA @ Nov 25 2004, 01:23 PM)
Back in the early 70's, I became friends with a couple of ex Air America (CIA) employees that had worked out of Laos. They told me that they used to fly into Burma one or twice a week with a load of gold and silver bars and bring back Opium which was shipped out, they said for processing into "pharmaceuticals". I never saw them do a lick of work in the two years that I knew them but they always had plenty of money to spend. Make your own conclusions.  <_<
*


Air America in the 60's - 70's, Evergreen Air in the 80's - 90's hauling drugs to pay for covert/black opps, the CIA has always been the tool of this evil group..... that's why "they" don't want Kerry to be President.... he'll get them after a 40 year reign of power. Reason why I say "they" is because it's hard to find the low level ones, not alone the big ones at the top. I think some of the highest held places in this "organization" are foreigners and some of the evilest criminals in our history were independent contractors for this group, or factions of this group. It appears that many of the higher ups may have also been skull -n- bones society members, but some of the high financiers are complete foreigners......... very dark place indeed. Taking these people to a trial would be more humorous than productive.... it would be a lot less difficult to try a mob family all at once than these people. They may not even be an actual organized group, but more a known set of connections...each trying to achieve their own "goals".

Stick to publicly proving election fraud and get these people one by one as they run for cover. ???????


unsure.gif These people are very dangerous, they destroy whole nations covertly. unsure.gif
tomahawk
I don't really know anything about Madsen's credibility, but if this other article by him is any indication, I would have serious doubts about it... sad.gif (On the other hand, this could have been a plan that was later abandoned -- or even still has not been abandoned completely.)

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0410/S00276.htm
FormerCIA
QUOTE(tomahawk @ Nov 25 2004, 05:47 PM)
I don't really know anything about Madsen's credibility, but if this other article by him is any indication, I would have serious doubts about it... sad.gif (On the other hand, this could have been a plan that was later abandoned -- or even still has not been abandoned completely.)

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0410/S00276.htm
*


Or this could have been more Rovian propaganda put out before the election to take the focus from the issues at hand. Who knows, history goes to the victor.
searchingforsanity
Seens that if you are a well-connected investigative writer by nature a lot of what you write will appear conspiratorial. Everything is fluid and sometimes the talk under the mainstream radar, which is where a lot of these writers operate, comes to light as predicted and sometimes they don't. So I won't dismiss the article as questionable, but I won't accept it as the last word either.

It's interesting and should be tracked to see if he writes a follow-up piece or maybe some other writer will shed more light on these facts. In any case, as more of the dots are connected, if they ever are, the story will find it's way into the mainstream. We'll see.
Activisms
QUOTE(MrJim @ Nov 25 2004, 10:47 AM)
Uh oh...

I take it that most people here are sort of novices to the whole conspiracy world.  This article rings very true in many of its assertions.  For example, the Nugen-Hand bank in Australia was the primary bank in which the CIA laundered its drug money from its opium operations in Laos and Cambodia.  The drug money was used to finance the illegal wars in Laos and Cambodia while Viet Nam was raging.  The CIA backed single warlords in each country, allowing the warlords to gain monopolies on the opium growing and harvesting.  The CIA provided arms, training, and a market for the opium.  In return, the warlords supplied the CIA with a lot of opium, which was processed into heroin, and shipped back to the United States in caskets.  Yes, caskets supposedly holding the remains of dead GIs from Viet Nam.  The heroin was then sold to various organized crime families for distribution in the US ghettos.

Although I have never read any articles or books on the issue, it seems obvious to me that the US ghettos are exploited as big markets for drugs and guns by white people in power in this country.  This does two things -- one, it avoids the riots that swept the ghettos in the 1960s.  People don't riot when they are high, or are desparately looking for their next high.  Add gangs and guns to the mix, and the ghettos become a shooting gallery where the minorities are killing each other, rather than organizing and challenging the system.  In the meanwhile, a lot of people in power become enormously wealthy on the drug and gun trade to the ghettos.  Perfect -- for any racist fascist.  Make huge sums of money while simultaneously destroying the "lesser races".

The Nugan-Hand bank story broke in Australia and caused a massive scandal in that country, although almost no news of it was reported in the US.  The ruling party had a big hand in the scandal, and elections were held, in which the Labor party won big time.  But the CIA intervened and threw the election to the ruling party, who remained in power.  Yes, the CIA threw an election in Australia.  The story is actually documented in a major Hollywood movie -- "The Falcon and the Snowman".

Most of the POWS / MIAS left in Viet Nam were NOT left in Viet Nam -- they were left in Laos and Cambodia.  Our government did not want them returned, because they were involved in the illegal war / drug trade, and they would blow the whole thing sky high.  Ross Perot actually tried forming a private army to go get the POWS / MIAS out, but was thwarted at every turn by the US Government.  He was subjected to all kinds of harrassment, black ops, etc.  This is why he was so paranoid during the 1992 presidential debates -- he had GOOD REASON to be paranoid.  And they came after him during the campaign -- threatening his family.  When he tried talking about it during the presidential debates, everybody branded him a lunatic.  Ross Perot's involvement in the POW / MIA situation is well documented in the book "Kiss the Boys Goodbye".

The CIA used the drug trade again to finance its war in Central America during the 1980s.  This time the drug was cocaine.  The CIA's cocaine connections were well documented in a series of articles in the San Jose Mercury News.  However, most people ignored the articles, and the discussion was rapidly shut down by the Government. 

Now the CIA is at it again in Afghanistan, back with its old favorite -- opium / heroin.
*


Read the fine print at the bottom...He's been talking with FBI sources and also worked with one of the teams. This isn't the same Madsen who wrote the scoop article, this is highly probable.
doresik
I hope that the people involved in this come forward so we can dig up the truth of what really happened. It's our only chance to reclaim democracy.
sadintexas
QUOTE(searchingforsanity @ Nov 25 2004, 10:44 AM)
The Warren County lockdown was in the news election night and the following day then just dropped.  First reports said it was a terror threat warning from the FBI.  By the next day the FBI denied issuing the warning.  I'm not sure what became of the story, but it's strange.
*



Somone needs to do some checking about the Karl Rove FBI connection. When he was in Texas doing all his dirty stuff here, he had a "relationship" with a fellow in the FBI who helped cover, fabricate, and play all sorts of dirty tricks that enabled Rove's candidates to win and smeared the other candidates. This FBI pal eventually moved to Utah, where I believe Rove is from. I would imagine they are still hooked up and that where one bad FBI agent exists, a nest might be found. The reason Rove is able to get supposedly "straight" guys to do his bidding is entirely ideological...they have "common values" (now THAT'S a joke). I don't think it is a matter of money...they are fascists in soul and spirit and will do ANYTHING for their "cause." So, if Rove and the FBI are still in bed together, it would be very easy for him to have "FBI agents" doing his bidding in Ohio, whether they are for real or just fake. It would be easy for Rove to initiate a terror warning and then have it recalled, to cover whatever his stooges were up to behind those closed doors.
sadintexas
QUOTE(doresik @ Nov 25 2004, 06:26 PM)
I hope that the people involved in this come forward so we can dig up the truth of what really happened.  It's our only chance to reclaim democracy.
*



Would they be safe? This would be life and death for Rove...he could not risk being exposed. He is quite capable of silencing any of these people and they know it. Remember, he is the chief counsel for a president who thinks nothing at all about killing hundreds of thousands of civilian Iraqi for the sake of controlling their oil fields, not to mention all our young men and women who have been told they are "fighting to defend our freedom" and are losing their lives in daily combat. To take out a few who were paid to rig the election would be PEANUTS for Karl Rove.
searchingforsanity
QUOTE(sadintexas @ Nov 26 2004, 01:50 AM)
Would they be safe? This would be life and death for Rove...he could not risk being exposed. He is quite capable of silencing any of these people and they know it. Remember, he is the chief counsel for a president who thinks nothing at all about killing hundreds of thousands of civilian Iraqi for the sake of controlling their oil fields, not to mention all our young men and women who have been told they are "fighting to defend our freedom" and are losing their lives in daily combat. To take out a few who were paid to rig the election would be PEANUTS for Karl Rove.
*



Safety is an issue. Also this article isn't the end all. Madsen needs to protect his sources---he may still be able to learn a lot more from them. If he went naming names this early in the game, what good would that do. This good fodder because now more people can begin to do the research, draw the links, and connect the dots. Madsen seems to have a reputation and I'm sure like all writers he wants to protect that too. So I will take the article for what it is---insight not speculation---and wait to see what else pops up.
Activisms
QUOTE(searchingforsanity @ Nov 25 2004, 07:57 PM)
Safety is an issue.  Also this article isn't the end all.  Madsen needs to protect his sources---he may still be able to learn a lot more from them.  If he went naming names this early in the game, what good would that do.  This good fodder because now more people can begin to do the research, draw the links, and connect the dots.  Madsen seems to have a reputation and I'm sure like all writers he wants to protect that too.  So I will take the article for what it is---insight not speculation---and wait to see what else pops up.
*


The story checks out, and the sources need to be under protection of the witness protection act. Rove is crazy nowadays, he's raving mad that he might be exposed so no chances be taken. Voter Gate 2004 is a hellmouth.
Dr. Morbius
This looks like a smoking gun, but it could easily be a phantom. It will certainly be painted as a phantom by the right; they will call into question the credibility of the author, as they have so often before. And it will work.

What matters, ladies and gentlemen, is not what is true, but what people believe. Unless someone with a great deal more credibility corroborates the story, this "bombshell" will end up being a dud.

What can be done? Forward this story to other media people and ask them for confirmation. I'm thinking Keith Olbermann would be most open to consider it, but likely would be unable to confirm the story. The question asked above, why didn't these election-fixers go to the FBI or mainstream media? Probably because this is only a phantom, and the smoking gun will always be invisible to poor mortals such as ourselves.
MrJim
QUOTE
What matters, ladies and gentlemen, is not what is true, but what people believe. Unless someone with a great deal more credibility corroborates the story, this "bombshell" will end up being a dud.


Unfortunately, I am a member of the "fact-based" community. Truth is what is important to me. The Repugs run on the proposition that you can create your own reality -- make it what you want.
Activisms
QUOTE(Dr. Morbius @ Nov 25 2004, 09:29 PM)
This looks like a smoking gun, but it could easily be a phantom.  It will certainly be painted as a phantom by the right; they will call into question the credibility of the author, as they have so often before.  And it will work.

What matters, ladies and gentlemen, is not what is true, but what people believe.  Unless someone with a great deal more credibility corroborates the story, this "bombshell" will end up being a dud.

What can be done?  Forward this story to other media people and ask them for confirmation.  I'm thinking Keith Olbermann would be most open to consider it, but likely would be unable to confirm the story.  The question asked above, why didn't these election-fixers go to the FBI or mainstream media?  Probably because this is only a phantom, and the smoking gun will always be invisible to poor mortals such as ourselves.
*


They already approached several in the FBI if you read the investigator has gotten information from intelligence inside the FBI repeatedly in the past. Plus these people likely didn't want to go to the right owned news networks and get character assassinated, followed up by possibly murdered, so they had to be careful of how they go about doing this or blowing the whistle in other words its not just their money, its their names which the crooks can try to find and start taking out the machine owners.
Dr. Morbius
QUOTE(MrJim @ Nov 25 2004, 10:46 PM)
Unfortunately, I am a member of the "fact-based" community.  Truth is what is important to me.  The Repugs run on the proposition that you can create your own reality -- make it what you want.
*


Truth is important to me too. But this is politics, and in politics what matters is what people believe. If you don't accept that, the GOP will keep beating you. I'm sorry to say that so bluntly, but it is so.

They don't have to fool all the people all the time. They only have to fool enough of the people, and unless we convince some of those people, the masses of Americans who only believe the mainstream media, of Bush's duplicity he's going to keep getting away with whatever crimes he pleases.

The nature of reality must be demonstrated in the court of public opinion, and until it is, you're spinning your wheels.

There are others, great print journalists like Seymour Hersh, to whom they could go. If you want to expose the truth, you go to the people who can really help. Not Madsen, who has serious credibility issues with conservatives.
BrokeInOhio
QUOTE(Dr. Morbius @ Nov 26 2004, 12:02 AM)
They don't have to fool all the people all the time.  They only have to fool enough of the people, and unless we convince some of those people, the masses of Americans who only believe the mainstream media, of Bush's duplicity he's going to keep getting away with whatever crimes he pleases.
*

So true. Except our past 2 Presidential elections were won by Gore and Kerry. Most of the Bush supporters believe whatever the media tells them. They don't question anything. Proof of this is their support for the Iraq war.

Edited for clarity
Activisms
PROOF The networks were in on it

After Warren Mitofsky didn't answer, and would not answer my simple questions I sent off another email....Which Mitofsky also decided to never answer.

QUOTE
"You said I could get an answer....

I gotta say there must be a really good explanation for why the very
networks of CNN, had their exit polls completely reverse the numbers?

http://members.cox.net/theblack/cnn_fraud1.gif

http://members.cox.net/theblack/cnn_fraud2.gif

But this is at night see with the same reversed exit polls...I mean
CNN claimed that the exit polls were both wrong and right...Their own
network indicates the opposite and shows they changed the exit poll. I
think the public freely deserves to view all of that exit poll data,
with the USA election as bad off as the Ukraine election and the
protestors know it.

M. Sanders"


The images by and large show CNN changing their exit poll numbers within slight of one hour exactly...with no margin of error. Same polls Zogby reported or so I thought...

I mailed this proof to Keith Olbermann also, which show the exit polls after the offices actually closed. Warren was lied to plain and simple...Who'd have such an interest in doing that? We already know and Keith knows now too: Mr. Rove.

Mitofsky still is unwilling to answer what happened that night...Here goes email #2, proof of the coup

QUOTE
"Zogby stated it got to see the exit polls after the polling places,
had officially closed backing up the story that the Networks actually
told them to have the exit polls altered.

"US Election: Democracy in Question
by Ritt Goldstein

STOCKHOLM - John Zogby, president of the polling firm Zogby
International, told IPS he has been calling it "the Armageddon
election" for about a year. Independent presidential candidate Ralph
Nader believes the Republican Party was able to "steal it before
election day."

Facts suggest something went very wrong on Nov. 2.

Speculation focuses upon a number of questions -- purposeful
miscounts, anomalies surrounding electronic voting (e-voting)
machines, particularly the optical scan types; and numerous reports of
voting "irregularities" in heavily Democratic areas.

"What they 'do' is minorities," Nader said, highlighting the thrust of
Republican efforts, "and make sure that there aren't enough voting
machines for the minority areas. They have to wait in line ... for
hours, and most of them don't. There are all kinds of ways, and that's
why I was quoted as saying, "this election was hijacked from A to Z,"
Nader told IPS.

Zogby was concerned about the difference between some of the exit
polls (surveys of individuals who have just cast ballots) and the
official vote counts. "We're talking about the Free World here," he
pointedly noted.

On Nov. 10, University of Pennsylvania Professor Steven F Freeman,
whose expertise includes "research methods," compiled an analysis
entitled 'The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy'. The document was
prepared in view of the unusually large differences between what exit
polls had predicted and the recorded vote tallies.

His findings suggest Democratic challenger Senator John Kerry should
have received far more votes than he did.

In three of the key battleground states -- Florida, Ohio and
Pennsylvania -- Freeman's analysis states the odds of Kerry receiving
the percentage of votes recorded, given the exit poll findings, were
less than three in one thousand, per state.

Freeman also determined that the odds of any two of these states
simultaneously reaching their stated vote tallies were "on the order
of one-in-a-million," and the odds of all three states arriving at the
vote counts they did "are 250 million to one."

"Something is definitely wrong," said Zogby.

Highlighting both the expected accuracy of exit polls and the
significant disparity that Kerry's defeat illustrated, Republican
consultant, commentator and Fox-TV News regular Dick Morris wrote an
article, 'Those Faulty Exit Polls Were Sabotage', suggesting a
pollster conspiracy to swing the election for Kerry.

In doing so he, perhaps inadvertently, provided ammunition for
arguments from the opposite side -- that the exit polls were correct
but the final results were fudged. "Exit polls are almost never
wrong," argued Morris, and in 10 of the 11 key states they had
predicted significantly fewer votes for Republican President George W
Bush than he was eventually credited with.

In New Hampshire, Bush tallied a surprising 9.5 percent more votes
than predicted, the most significant difference in any of the key
states.

Morris observed that outside the United States, exit polls are often
used to provide a check on official vote counts, in his words, "to
foreclose the possibility of finagling with the returns."

Among the most cited exit polls were those conducted by Mitofsky
International, whose founder, Warren Mitofsky, is widely credited with
having invented exit polling. Zogby, whose firm was not among those
that provided network TV coverage of the Nov. 2 election, described
the possibility of either incompetence or fraud causing the
controversial deviation as "impossible."

According to Zogby, it would have required "wrong sampling in wrong
areas throughout the country," or the purposeful manipulation of data
to obtain exit poll results so significantly different from the
official totals. He viewed neither as a possibility.


When asked what exactly had happened then, Zogby replied, "a problem,
but I don't know where it is ... something's wrong here, though."

On Nov. 5, Nader requested a hand recount of New Hampshire ballots,
subsequently telling IPS he had "reports of irregularities there, and
we have the cooperation of the state government ... the state
attorney-general and secretary of state."

Nader also said his headquarters had been flooded with requests for
assistance from a number of states.

On Thursday, five of the 11 New Hampshire voting wards where Nader
requested a recount will undertake new tallies. According to his
staff, all 11 wards had their votes counted with optical scan
machines, primarily the AccuVote models made by Diebold.

"If there are irregularities, it may have broader applications in
other states," Nader said, adding that the current recount -- a
45,000-vote sample -- is expected to be completed within a week.

Allegations regarding optical scan machines' potentially allowing the
manipulation of Florida's vote have been widely reported. In Ohio, the
Green and Libertarian parties are pursuing a recount, numerous
instances of voting irregularities having been reported there.

"As far as I'm concerned, this election was clearly stolen. What they
did in Ohio was systematically deny thousands of African Americans,
and other suspected Democrats, the vote," charged progressive author,
commentator and activist Harvey Wasserman of Franklin County, Ohio."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1118-11.htm

And then the actual exit polls, taken from the TV network stations for analysis

http://www.nogw.com/images/exit_poll.jpg

http://www.nogw.com/images/flbigchart.jpg

John Zogby wasn't crying foul, was he...

M Sanders"


It showed Zogby's exit poll charts were correct, and get this: In order for them to be incorrect and be after the polling closed, they would have had to be the wrong sampling in every precinct

Talk about obvious unrelenting Fraud. And Zogby knows it so well Mitofsky wouldn't dare admit it. Guess what this leads back to? What really happened on election night. See the networks did in fact call the exit poll numbers for Mitofsky and force him to declare the previous polls false. Because at around 12 AM the machine crashed, while Karl Rove was on the phone with his networks telling them he had the real data. And at the same time Karl Rove took his excel spreadsheets of falsified data the hackers he had been talking to earlier were correcting the "tabulators to show the real data". And guess what the networks did? They played right into Rove's hands and took the orders, the exit polls immediately changed and Bush stole the coup. Mitofsky was paid to say what he said, paid by the good people of Karl Rove's camp.
searchingforsanity
Here's an analysis of the cloak-and-dagger article:

Exposed: Funding vote fraud -- a "five star" investigation
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/
Hope you all had a fine Thanksgiving. If the following account is true, we may not that damned turkey hanging around for another four years.

Saudi money? For vote fraud-watchers, the article of the day must be Wayne Madsen's piece in the Online Journal. It is a must-read:
November 25, 2004 -- According to informed sources in Washington and Houston, the Bush campaign spent some $29 million to pay polling place operatives around the country to rig the election for Bush. The operatives were posing as Homeland Security and FBI agents but were actually technicians familiar with Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S, Triad, Unilect, and Danaher Controls voting machines. These technicians reportedly hacked the systems to skew the results in favor of Bush.

The leak about the money and the rigged election apparently came from technicians who were promised to be paid a certain amount for their work but the Bush campaign interlocutors reneged and some of the technicians are revealing the nature of the vote rigging program.
Madsen goes on to say that money for the operations was funnelled through a Saudi-linked financial entity based in Houston called Five Star Trust, which was also apparently used to fund both Bush and Bin Laden.

Other monies came from carefully-hidden Enron loot stashed away in the Cook Islands:
Cook Islands banks also handled some of the weapons smuggling financing of the Iran-Contra scandal. A former Justice Department attorney who helped prosecute the BCCI case said the use of the Cook Islands by the Bush reelection team indicates they wanted the bank arrangements to be a "quick folding tent" operation that would cease to exist when the election was over.
Madsen goes on to detail the complex history of these Cook Island accounts, which apparently continue in the same inglorious money-laudering tradition of the Nugan/Hand bank.

The article does not name names -- that is, Madsen's sources have not gone on the record. Not yet. But Madsen is a serious writer, his account is detailed, and his knowledge of parapolitical financing is solid. This is the sort of article that either changes history or proves to be a scarlet red herring.

My guess? I'll bet you three donuts that his sourcing amounts to more than mere scuttlebutt.

So pass Madsen's piece around. Let's all do what we can to solidify this research. For example...

I've tried some preliminary Googling on Five Star Trust (which is also spelled "5 Star Trust"). One citation goes to a court case listed here http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:ZysrA...2+houston&hl=en, involving one Marion Horn, Jr., a.k.a. "J.R. Horn," a one-time Republican candidate in Kentucky later convicted of wire fraud http://b2.ezboard.com/fdiligizerfrm16.show...6.topic&index=2. (Also see here http://b2.ezboard.com/fdiligizerfrm5?page=16 and here http://p067.ezboard.com/fdiligizerfrm22.sh...icID=28.topic.) From what I can tell, the guy received a ridiculously attentuated sentence -- 18 months -- for a serious crime (one commentator mentioned the figure of "$1B") committed while on parole for a similar offense.

Eighteen months...! Isn't it nice to have friends?

Much of the above information came by way of the Diligizer Board, which seems to be a clearinghouse for information about shady operators in the financial world. On one page http://p067.ezboard.com/fdiligizerfrm10.sh...picID=497.topic they take a brief look at an accused security fraudster named Howard E. Liner -- and just look at what pops up:
He claims to be directly involved with VP Chaney and running actually the FED program. Mr. Liner pretends to be a former JAG and Military attorney. They are connected to Noir Intertrade, who shall be the commitment holder! They also mentioned the 5-Star Trust, the worlds richest trust with TRILLIONS (sorry forgot to ask the currency!!) on the account in Credit Suisse and UBS.
Hmm. Did he just say trillions? It that's true, the allegation of Saudi involvement may well have substance.

Mind you, truth becomes a particularly elusive commodity when we look into financial wheeler-dealers operating on this level. Please understand that, at this time, I have no idea if or how any of the above data connects to the allegations of election tampering. But right now, every little bit of research may prove useful.

In a previous article, I mentioned John Allen Paulos, the latest expert to note the foul odor surrounding this election. (I neglected to mention that Paulos wrote Innumeracy, one of my ladyfriend's favorite books.) Paulos felt uncomfortable with the conspiracy idea, because he did not see how so widespread a scheme could take place without one or two players getting talky. (Of course, people once made similar disparaging comments about Enron's plot against California.)

If Madsen's article proves true, Paulos' main objection has been met: Lips have indeed loosened.

If we really do have a conspiracy, what should we expect next? Well, these things tend to follow a predictable course. The corpses should pop up soon: "Mysterious "suicides" in underground parking structures, healthy men suffering heart attacks, that sort of thing. After that will come the Gerry Posner-esque debunkers who will smirk their most arrogant smirks at all of us "tin-foil-hat" guys.

Until then, we should have ourselves a nice little shit-storm. While it lasts, we must grab hold of any and all stray evidence that blows our way
Activisms
QUOTE(searchingforsanity @ Nov 26 2004, 02:52 PM)
Here's an analysis of the cloak-and-dagger article:

Exposed: Funding vote fraud -- a "five star" investigation
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/
Hope you all had a fine Thanksgiving. If the following account is true, we may not that damned turkey hanging around for another four years.

Saudi money? For vote fraud-watchers, the article of the day must be Wayne Madsen's piece in the Online Journal. It is a must-read:
November 25, 2004 -- According to informed sources in Washington and Houston, the Bush campaign spent some $29 million to pay polling place operatives around the country to rig the election for Bush. The operatives were posing as Homeland Security and FBI agents but were actually technicians familiar with Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S, Triad, Unilect, and Danaher Controls voting machines. These technicians reportedly hacked the systems to skew the results in favor of Bush.

The leak about the money and the rigged election apparently came from technicians who were promised to be paid a certain amount for their work but the Bush campaign interlocutors reneged and some of the technicians are revealing the nature of the vote rigging program.
Madsen goes on to say that money for the operations was funnelled through a Saudi-linked financial entity based in Houston called Five Star Trust, which was also apparently used to fund both Bush and Bin Laden.

Other monies came from carefully-hidden Enron loot stashed away in the Cook Islands:
Cook Islands banks also handled some of the weapons smuggling financing of the Iran-Contra scandal. A former Justice Department attorney who helped prosecute the BCCI case said the use of the Cook Islands by the Bush reelection team indicates they wanted the bank arrangements to be a "quick folding tent" operation that would cease to exist when the election was over.
Madsen goes on to detail the complex history of these Cook Island accounts, which apparently continue in the same inglorious money-laudering tradition of the Nugan/Hand bank.

The article does not name names -- that is, Madsen's sources have not gone on the record. Not yet. But Madsen is a serious writer, his account is detailed, and his knowledge of parapolitical financing is solid. This is the sort of article that either changes history or proves to be a scarlet red herring.

My guess? I'll bet you three donuts that his sourcing amounts to more than mere scuttlebutt.

So pass Madsen's piece around. Let's all do what we can to solidify this research. For example...

I've tried some preliminary Googling on Five Star Trust (which is also spelled "5 Star Trust"). One citation goes to a court case listed here http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:ZysrA...2+houston&hl=en, involving one Marion Horn, Jr., a.k.a. "J.R. Horn," a one-time Republican candidate in Kentucky later convicted of wire fraud http://b2.ezboard.com/fdiligizerfrm16.show...6.topic&index=2. (Also see here http://b2.ezboard.com/fdiligizerfrm5?page=16 and here http://p067.ezboard.com/fdiligizerfrm22.sh...icID=28.topic.) From what I can tell, the guy received a ridiculously attentuated sentence -- 18 months -- for a serious crime (one commentator mentioned the figure of "$1B") committed while on parole for a similar offense.

Eighteen months...! Isn't it nice to have friends?

Much of the above information came by way of the Diligizer Board, which seems to be a clearinghouse for information about shady operators in the financial world. On one page  http://p067.ezboard.com/fdiligizerfrm10.sh...picID=497.topic they take a brief look at an accused security fraudster named Howard E. Liner -- and just look at what pops up:
He claims to be directly involved with VP Chaney and running actually the FED program. Mr. Liner pretends to be a former JAG and Military attorney. They are connected to Noir Intertrade, who shall be the commitment holder! They also mentioned the 5-Star Trust, the worlds richest trust with TRILLIONS (sorry forgot to ask the currency!!) on the account in Credit Suisse and UBS.
Hmm. Did he just say trillions? It that's true, the allegation of Saudi involvement may well have substance.

Mind you, truth becomes a particularly elusive commodity when we look into financial wheeler-dealers operating on this level. Please understand that, at this time, I have no idea if or how any of the above data connects to the allegations of election tampering. But right now, every little bit of research may prove useful.

In a previous article, I mentioned John Allen Paulos, the latest expert to note the foul odor surrounding this election. (I neglected to mention that Paulos wrote Innumeracy, one of my ladyfriend's favorite books.) Paulos felt uncomfortable with the conspiracy idea, because he did not see how so widespread a scheme could take place without one or two players getting talky. (Of course, people once made similar disparaging comments about Enron's plot against California.)

If Madsen's article proves true, Paulos' main objection has been met: Lips have indeed loosened.

If we really do have a conspiracy, what should we expect next? Well, these things tend to follow a predictable course. The corpses should pop up soon: "Mysterious "suicides" in underground parking structures, healthy men suffering heart attacks, that sort of thing. After that will come the Gerry Posner-esque debunkers who will smirk their most arrogant smirks at all of us "tin-foil-hat" guys.

Until then, we should have ourselves a nice little shit-storm. While it lasts, we must grab hold of any and all stray evidence that blows our way
*


Andy and some other guys are planning on having all this information on 5 star trust, and CyberNet group's dirty dealings with Accenture mailed straight into Greg Palast.

Greg Palast is being asked to investigate this down to the root and he will get to the bottom of it, and is asking for a donation fund. Someone is going to start spreading that official donation fund link so everyone can help fund Greg's deep investigation into the men behind this crime.
Activisms
For those who don't know you can donate to Greg Palast's investigation here

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr

They are all having him open a full blown wide investigation into Cyber, Accenture and Five Star Trust the official bank. Donate towards the cause.
Kra/Lee
QUOTE(Activisms @ Nov 26 2004, 03:08 PM)
PROOF The networks were in on it

After Warren Mitofsky didn't answer, and would not answer my simple questions I sent off another email....Which Mitofsky also decided to never answer.
The images by and large show CNN changing their exit poll numbers within slight of one hour exactly...with no margin of error. Same polls Zogby reported or so I thought...

I mailed this proof to Keith Olbermann also, which show the exit polls after the offices actually closed. Warren was lied to plain and simple...Who'd have such an interest in doing that? We already know and Keith knows now too: Mr. Rove.

Mitofsky still is unwilling to answer what happened that night...Here goes email #2, proof of the coup
It showed Zogby's exit poll charts were correct, and get this: In order for them to be incorrect and be after the polling closed, they would have had to be the wrong sampling in every precinct

Talk about obvious unrelenting Fraud. And Zogby knows it so well Mitofsky wouldn't dare admit it. Guess what this leads back to? What really happened on election night. See the networks did in fact call the exit poll numbers for Mitofsky and force him to declare the previous polls false. Because at around 12 AM the machine crashed, while Karl Rove was on the phone with his networks telling them he had the real data. And at the same time Karl Rove took his excel spreadsheets of falsified data the hackers he had been talking to earlier were correcting the "tabulators to show the real data". And guess what the networks did? They played right into Rove's hands and took the orders, the exit polls immediately changed and Bush stole the coup. Mitofsky was paid to say what he said, paid by the good people of Karl Rove's camp.
*



How many times did I say this very thing on the blogs. Did anyone hear me? I'm not trying to blow my own horn. I always said it was very suspicious that Karl Rove made a phone call around the same time the polls went up. I have a gut feeling Rove is our real culprit.
Activisms
QUOTE(Kra/Lee @ Nov 26 2004, 06:36 PM)
How many times did I say this very thing on the blogs. Did anyone hear me? I'm not trying to blow my own horn.  I always said it was very suspicious that Karl Rove made a phone call around the same time the polls went up. I have a gut feeling Rove is our real culprit.
*


Of course, that's why Warren got tongue tied. He knew the networks did pay him to say what he did, but why when the networks themselves were wrong? Because Karl Rove was controlling their answers

And Mr. Karl Rove obviously was at the top of this gameplan, with the hackers in various schools and county precincts, hired with 35 million dollars of campaign funds rigging the tabulators and their corresponding numbers with relative ease through-out the day. Therefore, the get out the vote really was successful: They MORE than tripled their original crimewave inheritance :o :o :o
Marine
QUOTE(farmerTom @ Nov 25 2004, 03:59 PM)
Air America in the 60's - 70's, Evergreen Air in the 80's - 90's hauling drugs to pay for covert/black opps, the CIA has always been the tool of this evil group..... that's why "they" don't want Kerry to be President.... he'll get them after a 40 year reign of power. Reason why I say "they" is because it's hard to find the low level ones, not alone the big ones at the top. I think some of the highest held places in this "organization" are foreigners and some of the evilest criminals in our history were independent contractors for this group, or factions of this group. It appears that many of the higher ups may have also been skull -n- bones society members, but some of the high financiers are complete foreigners......... very dark place indeed. Taking these people to a trial would be more humorous than productive.... it would be a lot less difficult to try a mob family all at once than these people. They may not even be an actual organized group, but more a known set of connections...each trying to achieve their own "goals".

Stick to publicly proving election fraud and get these people one by one as they run for cover. ???????
unsure.gif  These people are very dangerous, they destroy whole nations covertly.  unsure.gif
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I don't think Bill Clinton was involved in drug smuggler in the the 90's, is this what you are implying? John Kerry was a member in the skull -n- bones society at Yale too, did he intend to smuggle drugs?

I don't think so.
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