The "War on Terror"--Is the War Model All Wrong?
One of the few cogent moments in the 2004 Kerry campaign was when the candidate, briefly, questioned the whole "war" model of the GWOT. He was heckled into silence on the matter, and, aside from those who noticed how the Brits, Italians and Germans solved their terrorism problems in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, few Americans considered the subject still debatable.
Osama declared war, we were told, therefore we were at war.
Now comes a piece in the Asia Times, delineating how the Indonesians have used the "tough law enforcement" model, as opposed to the "war" model, against their home-grown insurgents. Since the war model has served us so well regarding drugs, we might--that is to say, those not in or supporting the administration might--take this lesson to heart.
Full Version: The "War on Terror"--Is the War Model All Wrong?
Common Ground Common Sense > Issues that Affect Our Lives > Foreign Policy and National Defense > Afghanistan and Iraq
QUOTE(Noonan @ Apr 8 2007, 05:53 AM) 
The "War on Terror"--Is the War Model All Wrong?
One of the few cogent moments in the 2004 Kerry campaign was when the candidate, briefly, questioned the whole "war" model of the GWOT. He was heckled into silence on the matter, and, aside from those who noticed how the Brits, Italians and Germans solved their terrorism problems in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, few Americans considered the subject still debatable.
Osama declared war, we were told, therefore we were at war.
Now comes a piece in the Asia Times, delineating how the Indonesians have used the "tough law enforcement" model, as opposed to the "war" model, against their home-grown insurgents. Since the war model has served us so well regarding drugs, we might--that is to say, those not in or supporting the administration might--take this lesson to heart.
One of the few cogent moments in the 2004 Kerry campaign was when the candidate, briefly, questioned the whole "war" model of the GWOT. He was heckled into silence on the matter, and, aside from those who noticed how the Brits, Italians and Germans solved their terrorism problems in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, few Americans considered the subject still debatable.
Osama declared war, we were told, therefore we were at war.
Now comes a piece in the Asia Times, delineating how the Indonesians have used the "tough law enforcement" model, as opposed to the "war" model, against their home-grown insurgents. Since the war model has served us so well regarding drugs, we might--that is to say, those not in or supporting the administration might--take this lesson to heart.
A good read. Thanks.
QUOTE(Noonan @ Apr 8 2007, 04:53 AM)
The "War on Terror"--Is the War Model All Wrong?
One of the few cogent moments in the 2004 Kerry campaign was when the candidate, briefly, questioned the whole "war" model of the GWOT. He was heckled into silence on the matter, and, aside from those who noticed how the Brits, Italians and Germans solved their terrorism problems in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, few Americans considered the subject still debatable.
Osama declared war, we were told, therefore we were at war.
Now comes a piece in the Asia Times, delineating how the Indonesians have used the "tough law enforcement" model, as opposed to the "war" model, against their home-grown insurgents. Since the war model has served us so well regarding drugs, we might--that is to say, those not in or supporting the administration might--take this lesson to heart.
One of the few cogent moments in the 2004 Kerry campaign was when the candidate, briefly, questioned the whole "war" model of the GWOT. He was heckled into silence on the matter, and, aside from those who noticed how the Brits, Italians and Germans solved their terrorism problems in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, few Americans considered the subject still debatable.
Osama declared war, we were told, therefore we were at war.
Now comes a piece in the Asia Times, delineating how the Indonesians have used the "tough law enforcement" model, as opposed to the "war" model, against their home-grown insurgents. Since the war model has served us so well regarding drugs, we might--that is to say, those not in or supporting the administration might--take this lesson to heart.
Thank you. Yes, the current US model of the "War on Terror" is wrong. Kerry was right, but people made fun of him so he backed off what he said. He basically said we should deal with terrorists like we deal with the Mafia or something similar.
QUOTE(Noonan @ Apr 8 2007, 05:53 AM)
The "War on Terror"--Is the War Model All Wrong?
One of the few cogent moments in the 2004 Kerry campaign was when the candidate, briefly, questioned the whole "war" model of the GWOT. He was heckled into silence on the matter, and, aside from those who noticed how the Brits, Italians and Germans solved their terrorism problems in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, few Americans considered the subject still debatable.
Osama declared war, we were told, therefore we were at war.
Now comes a piece in the Asia Times, delineating how the Indonesians have used the "tough law enforcement" model, as opposed to the "war" model, against their home-grown insurgents. Since the war model has served us so well regarding drugs, we might--that is to say, those not in or supporting the administration might--take this lesson to heart.
One of the few cogent moments in the 2004 Kerry campaign was when the candidate, briefly, questioned the whole "war" model of the GWOT. He was heckled into silence on the matter, and, aside from those who noticed how the Brits, Italians and Germans solved their terrorism problems in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, few Americans considered the subject still debatable.
Osama declared war, we were told, therefore we were at war.
Now comes a piece in the Asia Times, delineating how the Indonesians have used the "tough law enforcement" model, as opposed to the "war" model, against their home-grown insurgents. Since the war model has served us so well regarding drugs, we might--that is to say, those not in or supporting the administration might--take this lesson to heart.
If this makes sense to you, see Snuffysmith's post 1388 for a link to BillChristison's article,
"Why US and Isarel Should lose Middle East Wars." He calls for a Global Justice Movement
rather than an Anti-war Movement or even a Peace Movement. Peace will follow Justice, not
the other way arround.
Too many of the greedy and powerful have an interest in the status quo, and the status quo is "endless unwinnable war". Everything from the "War on Drugs" to the "War on Terrorism" are smokescreens for massive fraud, political support for bloodthirsty RW foreign and domestic policies, Defense Dept. Corporate Welfare, The Prison Industry, and ultimately a Fascistic Police State here.
All the above and more distracts from, and with the help of a complicit Media, covers up the dividing and selling out of the American Middle Class's present and future. It should be alarming to most Americans that the shipping of huge numbers of American jobs to countries like China, coincides with China buying up a huge amount of the deliberately created Debt (largely squandered in Iraq) under the Bush Administration. Because now we cannot retrieve those jobs or even put an equalizing Tarriff against the imports from the virtual Slave Labor, without China threatening to call in the Debt they own. We have been screwed! And all those who supported Bush and still do are at least partly responsible.
So the next time you hear some RWer or some Republican wave the flag in your face, remember what they have done to the country that flag represents.
All the above and more distracts from, and with the help of a complicit Media, covers up the dividing and selling out of the American Middle Class's present and future. It should be alarming to most Americans that the shipping of huge numbers of American jobs to countries like China, coincides with China buying up a huge amount of the deliberately created Debt (largely squandered in Iraq) under the Bush Administration. Because now we cannot retrieve those jobs or even put an equalizing Tarriff against the imports from the virtual Slave Labor, without China threatening to call in the Debt they own. We have been screwed! And all those who supported Bush and still do are at least partly responsible.
So the next time you hear some RWer or some Republican wave the flag in your face, remember what they have done to the country that flag represents.
QUOTE(TheRestofUs @ Aug 28 2007, 08:00 AM)
Too many of the greedy and powerful have an interest in the status quo, and the status quo is "endless unwinnable war". Everything from the "War on Drugs" to the "War on Terrorism" are smokescreens for massive fraud, political support for bloodthirsty RW foreign and domestic policies, Defense Dept. Corporate Welfare, The Prison Industry, and ultimately a Fascistic Police State here.
All the above and more distracts from, and with the help of a complicit Media, covers up the dividing and selling out of the American Middle Class's present and future. It should be alarming to most Americans that the shipping of huge numbers of American jobs to countries like China, coincides with China buying up a huge amount of the deliberately created Debt (largely squandered in Iraq) under the Bush Administration. Because now we cannot retrieve those jobs or even put an equalizing Tarriff against the imports from the virtual Slave Labor, without China threatening to call in the Debt they own. We have been screwed! And all those who supported Bush and still do are at least partly responsible.
So the next time you hear some RWer or some Republican wave the flag in your face, remember what they have done to the country that flag represents.
All the above and more distracts from, and with the help of a complicit Media, covers up the dividing and selling out of the American Middle Class's present and future. It should be alarming to most Americans that the shipping of huge numbers of American jobs to countries like China, coincides with China buying up a huge amount of the deliberately created Debt (largely squandered in Iraq) under the Bush Administration. Because now we cannot retrieve those jobs or even put an equalizing Tarriff against the imports from the virtual Slave Labor, without China threatening to call in the Debt they own. We have been screwed! And all those who supported Bush and still do are at least partly responsible.
So the next time you hear some RWer or some Republican wave the flag in your face, remember what they have done to the country that flag represents.
Since the case for Impeachment is so clear to any who would look, why are most of our
"leaders" running away from it? It seems so obvious that this is the only way to turn things arround?
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 28 2007, 07:28 AM)
Since the case for Impeachment is so clear to any who would look, why are most of our
"leaders" running away from it? It seems so obvious that this is the only way to turn things arround?
"leaders" running away from it? It seems so obvious that this is the only way to turn things arround?
It is because the trap has already been sprung rla. The very dichodomy precludes an easy answer. Impeachment and Removal can only "turn things around" if the vast majority of the American people see what has been done to them, and can communicate it among themselves and to their elected reps. But the Media is there to distract and frighten them and enflame their personal hatreds against their own fellow citizens who do see. Divide and conquer is an ancient tactic rla.
QUOTE(TheRestofUs @ Aug 28 2007, 10:39 AM)
It is because the trap has already been sprung rla. The very dichodomy precludes an easy answer. Impeachment and Removal can only "turn things around" if the vast majority of the American people see what has been done to them, and can communicate it among themselves and to their elected reps. But the Media is there to distract and frighten them and enflame their personal hatreds against their own fellow citizens who do see. Divide and conquer is an ancient tactic rla.
The 'trap' can't have been sprung yet, since so many individuals are members of the NRA and so many more actually own firearms. That's what the "Have" class has to worry about, when you get down to the nitty gritty. The class warfare within the US has been going on since Columbus' ships reached the Eastern Shores.
The 'haves' have pulled out most of their weapons during Bush's tenure as head of the government, but they haven't won yet. The next (and perhaps final) stage is martial law and the elimination of local law enforcement. And W has 15 months to pull that off. One answer is vigilence and prevention; another is impeachment for conspiracy to circumvent our Constitutional Republic's laws.
QUOTE(grammydidi @ Aug 28 2007, 09:58 AM)
The 'trap' can't have been sprung yet, since so many individuals are members of the NRA and so many more actually own firearms. That's what the "Have" class has to worry about, when you get down to the nitty gritty. The class warfare within the US has been going on since Columbus' ships reached the Eastern Shores.
The 'haves' have pulled out most of their weapons during Bush's tenure as head of the government, but they haven't won yet. The next (and perhaps final) stage is martial law and the elimination of local law enforcement. And W has 15 months to pull that off. One answer is vigilence and prevention; another is impeachment for conspiracy to circumvent our Constitutional Republic's laws.
The 'haves' have pulled out most of their weapons during Bush's tenure as head of the government, but they haven't won yet. The next (and perhaps final) stage is martial law and the elimination of local law enforcement. And W has 15 months to pull that off. One answer is vigilence and prevention; another is impeachment for conspiracy to circumvent our Constitutional Republic's laws.
I agree that vigilence and prevention are key grammydidi, but that must be among the vast majority. Impeachment and removal are only effective regarding the trap I spoke of if it is emblematic of the feelings of the populous en mass. Then it is a real repudiation of those ruionous policies as well as a particular set of High Crimes and Misdomeanors. Otherwise if it is a Party Line Impeachment, it can be written off as a political Impeachment and doesn't presage a sea change in Trade or Foreign policy. Iraq is as much a part of the "trap" as the jobs in China and the Debt they own. It is all geared towards a dismantling of the New Deal, and the imposition of an Oligarchy over a population of economically captive serfs. To a large degree we are already screwed. Only a mass rejection of "BushCo." and all that stands for will save us IMO.
QUOTE(TheRestofUs @ Aug 28 2007, 11:10 AM)
I agree that vigilence and prevention are key grammydidi, but that must be among the vast majority. Impeachment and removal are only effective regarding the trap I spoke of if it is emblematic of the feelings of the populous en mass. Then it is a real repudiation of those ruionous policies as well as a particular set of High Crimes and Misdomeanors. Otherwise if it is a Party Line Impeachment, it can be written off as a political Impeachment and doesn't presage a sea change in Trade or Foreign policy. Iraq is as much a part of the "trap" as the jobs in China and the Debt they own. It is all geared towards a dismantling of the New Deal, and the imposition of an Oligarchy over a population of economically captive serfs. To a large degree we are already screwed. Only a mass rejection of "BushCo." and all that stands for will save us IMO.
TheRestofUs, I still don't understand how you conclude that promoting the Impeachment
process would not contribute to building a stronger consensus for repudiating the Cheny-Bush
Administration. In Arne's words, this could be considered the perfect being the enemy of the good.
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 28 2007, 02:49 PM)
TheRestofUs, I still don't understand how you conclude that promoting the Impeachment
process would not contribute to building a stronger consensus for repudiating the Cheny-Bush
Administration. In Arne's words, this could be considered the perfect being the enemy of the good.
process would not contribute to building a stronger consensus for repudiating the Cheny-Bush
Administration. In Arne's words, this could be considered the perfect being the enemy of the good.
I do support the Impeachment process. I just want it to be as effective and overwhelmingly accepted as possible. Premature Impeachment (however much I believe they have earned Impeachment and Removal many times over IMO) along a Party Line Vote is less effective in the overall repudiation of BushCo. than I want. What is so hard to understand about that? Do you want him Impeached and to just sit there in the Oval Office and smirk, and give us all the finger, and continue smugly on? Where is the sense in that?
All I'm saying is that we need massive support for this. You are an advocate of "educating" the Public, yet here you are willing to forge ahead with a largely meaningless Impeachment before we have done the education. I would say BushCo. and all they stand for being scorned and rejected by most Americans and remembered as such in history, serves our republic better in the long run, than the short term satisfaction of a impotent politically written off move. Let me say again that due to the Republicans lowering the bar for impeachment with their witch hunt of Clinton, and the damaged political system in the country, and the complicity of the Media in covering for this rogue regeim, we have to take the wisest path. Maybe it will have to come down to having to settle for just a political Impeachment, but I have higher hopes for innoculating our republic from "Bushisim" forever.
I have been calling for his Impeachment and Removal since shortly after 911. I continue to call for it. If Bush could be Impeached and Removed tomorrow it would not be too soon for me rla. But I want him REMOVED! I want some assurance that that will be the result.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.